Ben Shapiro joins us for the entire episode to speak about why we should pardon Derek Chauvin. This is an incredibly important episode. You should listen intently, send it to your liberal friends, and talk about how we went so amiss during the summer of 2020.
00:00:00.000Okay, everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show, Ben Shapiro joins us for the entire episode to speak about why we should pardon Derek Chauvin.
00:00:07.000This is an incredibly important episode.
00:00:09.000You should listen intently, send it to your liberal friends, and talk about how we went so amiss during the summer of 2020. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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00:01:59.000We weren't allowed to ask very simple questions about what's really going on here.
00:02:04.000And as a result, the man in the video, Derek Chauvin, is now going to spend the rest of his life in prison.
00:02:11.000Well, now further examination allows us to reanalyze this cultural flashpoint.
00:02:18.000And a very brave man when it comes to this particular topic, and a great man, Ben Shapiro, is willing to speak out and not just ask the question, but advocate...
00:02:44.000So, Ben, I'm going to just say the floor is yours.
00:02:47.000For some people that have not been following this with great detail, this might make them kind of take a second, like a little pause in a second beat.
00:02:55.000Why are you advocating for Derek Chauvin's pardon?
00:02:58.000And what have you learned through the course of your research and your rigorous pursuit of the truth that has led you to this advocacy?
00:03:05.000Well, I think the reason that I'm advocating for the pardon is because Derek Chauvin is not guilty.
00:03:09.000And I think that it's very important to explode narratives like the one that you were talking about because those narratives live on in our memory as sort of flashpoints that people draw upon as evidence of narratives that are false.
00:03:21.000So the narrative that surrounded the Floyd Chauvin killing.
00:03:24.000was the narrative that America was inherently racist.
00:03:27.000Now, those allegations were never actually made at trial.
00:03:29.000There was never any allegation by prosecutors or by anyone that Derek Chauvin quote-unquote killed George Floyd because George Floyd was black, and yet that was the narrative.
00:03:36.000It burst out all over the country that systemic American policing was racist, that America had to undergo a sort of racial cleansing process that allowed for $2 billion in rioting.
00:03:46.000In fact, a process that was so important that even if COVID was spreading around, you were allowed to take off your mask and shout in the streets for George Floyd and you would somehow be free of COVID for doing all of these things.
00:03:57.000It was really a quite terrible time in American history and it was being excused by...
00:04:01.000The entire left, all of the legacy media.
00:04:03.000And in fact, if you didn't post the black square in favor of Black Lives Matter, you were basically non-personed in terms of sort of social media and the way that you were approached in all of these spaces.
00:04:14.000Now, the reality of this particular death is now known.
00:04:18.000And we know pretty much everything there is to know about it.
00:04:21.000And there are a bunch of reasons why Derek Chauvin should be part.
00:04:24.000While in federal custody, he was stabbed recently 21 times by a fellow inmate, so it's quite dangerous for him.
00:04:30.000The reason why we now know all of this is because we know from jurors that they were pressured, that they felt the pressure, that they were scared to rule in favor of Derek Chauvin.
00:04:40.000We now know, and we can see it at the time, the amount of public pressure that was brought in that particular case.
00:04:46.000The mayor of Minneapolis was signing settlements with the family of George Floyd on behalf of the city in the middle of the trial.
00:04:55.000And Tim Walz was basically out there proclaiming the guilt of Derek Chauvin.
00:05:00.000Joe Biden was running for president at the time in 2020. And he and the rest of the Democratic regime were talking about how Derek Chauvin was, how this was a key flashpoint in American history and how this was demonstrating sort of the apex moment of all of American racism contained in this particular incident.
00:05:16.000So first, the first clue that this was not true.
00:05:20.000Came, I think, from that, from the fact that it was deemed an incident of American racism and never did anyone ever make a claim.
00:05:25.000There were not even federal hate crime charges.
00:05:27.000There was no claim that Derek Chauvin quote-unquote killed George Floyd because he was racist.
00:05:31.000Then you start to look more into the details of the actual death of George Floyd.
00:05:35.000Everything from the autopsy report, the original medical examiner autopsy report suggested that he had died, not of failure to breathe because of pressure put on him.
00:05:46.000But effectively have excited delirium, fentanyl overdose.
00:05:49.000The idea in the actual autopsy report suggested that he had enough fentanyl in him that if he had just found this body on a sidewalk, the medical examiner, then he would have immediately determined that he had died of a fentanyl overdose.
00:06:00.000So there are sections of the tape that people thought they saw.
00:06:03.000The eight minutes or four minutes of the eight minute tape.
00:06:06.000And then there was a lot of tape before that.
00:06:08.000So if you actually look at the incident in its entirety, what you found out is that George Floyd was in a car outside of a place of business.
00:06:16.000Where he had passed a counterfeit bill.
00:06:19.000There's Derek Chauvin and the rest of the members of the officers who were there.
00:06:23.000And Derek Chauvin arrested George Floyd.
00:06:26.000And it appears that George Floyd either ingested drugs that were on him or he was already high.
00:06:32.000The reason that he might have ingested drugs is because literally a few years before, we also have a videotape of George Floyd doing exactly that.
00:07:12.000Matter of the moment, the phrase of the moment, people chanting, I can't breathe, in homage to George Floyd.
00:07:17.000He was saying he could not breathe from when he was in the car, suggesting either that it was untrue, that he could actually breathe, because normally if you can talk, you can breathe, or that he was already having difficulty breathing based on the fact that he had a very enlarged heart, that he had a lot of drugs in his system, and that he was actually having a medical issue before he was actually taken out of the car, by the way, at his request.
00:08:26.000So the autopsy and medical reports suggested, again, that at best, there is certainly reasonable doubt that he died because of the suppression technique, specifically, that Derek Chauvin...
00:08:38.000And so the entire trial was based on the supposition that simply by being put into the prone position and then Derek Chauvin being on his shoulder and then partially, not with his full weight, partially on his neck to suppress him, that this led to George Floyd's death in the form of murder, not even in the form of manslaughter, not even accidental death.
00:08:57.000Second-degree murder is what he was convicted of in state court.
00:09:01.000The evidence does not match up with this.
00:09:03.000And we covered this extensively at the time.
00:09:05.000And again, I was like everybody else when I first saw that tape.
00:09:07.000I think everybody, when they first saw the tape, they said, this is ugly, right?
00:09:09.000It looks ugly because it turns out a lot of police procedure actually looks quite ugly.
00:09:13.000And so you can find tweets from me at the time saying this looks like bad policing by Derek Chauvin.
00:09:17.000So first of all, bad policing is not the same as second-degree murder.
00:09:20.000But second of all, as the evidence emerged, the medical evidence emerged, the medical examiner's original report, new evidence that was emerging about his condition, new tape that was emerging.
00:09:32.000The backstory, all of it, as that emerged, it became clear that Derek Chauvin certainly was not guilty of second-degree murder, which is what he was charged with.
00:09:40.000There are all sorts of questions about the charges.
00:09:42.000As you recall, he was simultaneously charged with first and second-degree murder.
00:09:45.000Those are charges that are mutually exclusive, and yet they were both brought in an attempt to allow the jury to find a second-degree murder if they weren't going to find a first-degree murder.
00:09:52.000So there were all sorts of improprieties in the trial.
00:09:55.000Even if you just want to take this from a legal level, the idea that Derek Chauvin had, quote-unquote, a fair trial is wrong.
00:10:00.000The idea that the jury was impartial is wrong.
00:10:03.000The idea that there was evidence sufficient to suggest beyond a reasonable doubt that George Floyd was murdered in the second degree is wrong.
00:10:10.000We know for a fact that the entire narrative which was drawn for the entire country that America is systemically racist was rooted in an incident in which race was not even alleged.
00:10:19.000I want to repeat that, everyone, to internalize that.
00:10:22.000The 1619 Project was largely accelerated out of this.
00:10:27.000Robin DiAngelo's fame was born out of this.
00:10:29.000We had police departments defunding the police.
00:10:32.000In fact, you can look at a material increase in crime in both Minneapolis and across the country because of this one incident.
00:10:50.000Ben, I want to compliment you for your willingness to speak out on this because it wasn't just one injustice.
00:10:56.000This was the gateway drug towards mass anarchy in the streets and an unnecessary thousands of people dying on top of the baseline crime rate.
00:11:09.000Gentlemen, let's get real for a second.
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00:12:50.000It wasn't some sort of legal conspiracy.
00:12:52.000Ben, what would your response be to that?
00:12:55.000And also, when did you start to form the opinion that this was a railroaded via the justice system against Derek Chauvin?
00:13:03.000So when I started to change my opinion, and again, you can find tweets from me in May when this first broke, talking about police brutality, was watching the actual trial.
00:13:11.000So when I watched the actual trial, when I read the medical examiner's report, when I was watching the defense witnesses and the prosecution witnesses, by the way, when I was watching all that go down, it occurred to me, they do not have the evidence to convict this man beyond a reasonable doubt.
00:13:31.000One of the jurors was photographed at a protest commemorating Dr. King's I Have a Dream speech during the summer of 2020. This is Coleman Hughes reporting for the Free Press.
00:13:39.000At that protest, two of George Floyd's family members addressed the crowd, and this juror was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of King and the words, get your knee off our necks in BLM. How is that a fair trial?
00:13:48.000In what world is that even remotely a fair trial?
00:13:52.000I think that the image of Chauvin on top of Floyd became such an iconic image that...
00:14:00.000It's very difficult for people to imagine that anything else happened, but there was tape both before and after the incident.
00:14:07.000There's medical information about George Floyd and his prior status, and all of that makes an enormous difference.
00:14:13.000Now, the imagistic power of Chauvin in the suppression position with Floyd obviously is going to have an outsized power in the public memory, but that's exactly why I think it's really important for people to speak out and I think for the pardon to occur, because in order for there to be a rethinking of things like this...
00:14:29.000It is important to get people to even re-examine the issue.
00:14:31.000There's so many things people think that they saw that they never actually saw over the course of the last 10 years.
00:14:39.000Here, I recall the supposed Charlottesville speech by President Trump in which he supposedly said that neo-Nazis were very fine people.
00:14:46.000And then if you go back and actually watch the speech, he never said anything remotely like that.
00:14:49.000But that was emblazoned in people's memories because it was hit so hard and so often that many people still think.
00:14:55.000That that is, in fact, true, and that is, in fact, the case.
00:14:58.000There are still people on the left, many people, who still believe that hands up, don't shoot, in the case of Michael Brown and Ferguson was true, that he held up his hands and then was shot by a police officer.
00:15:06.000And so the reality is that the way the memory works is if people show you an image over and over and over and over, that's the only thing in your memory about the particular case.
00:15:14.000I'm not denying that the image is visually ugly.
00:15:17.000I'm not denying that the tape doesn't, quote-unquote, look good.
00:15:20.000What I am saying is that if you've ever done a police ride-along or if you know police officers, guess what?
00:15:24.000Policing is a rough and difficult job that people who are rough and difficult, it's a tough thing to do.
00:15:43.000Because you're dealing with people who may be violent with police officers, who may be a threat, who may be high on drugs, who may not know what they're doing.
00:15:50.000And so simply taking an image out of context and then saying, because this image is ugly and because it exists, I'm going to ignore all other evidence.
00:15:56.000That is not the way certainly our justice system is supposed to work.
00:16:22.000And just as I think that it is very important that President Trump, for example, pardon pro-lifers, because the image in the public mind that has been created by the legacy media for decades on end is that pro-lifers are violently protesting outside abortion clinics, and therefore they have to be arrested.
00:16:35.000That's not true, and so I think the pardon is important.
00:16:37.000Or the reason I think that it was important for President Trump, even if I disagree with him on some of the pardons on January 6th, to pardon non-violent...
00:16:45.000And again, you don't have to agree with me on every aspect of this case to understand that Derek Chauvin did not receive a free trial and that the major railroading that went on here was not just a railroading of Derek Chauvin.
00:16:58.000It was a railroading of our police broad writ, as you mentioned, and it was also a railroading of America in general because this turned into the launching point for a years-long effort to characterize America as deeply and irredeemably racist.
00:17:09.000There's another element to this as well, which you touched on briefly.
00:17:13.000There's so much, not just suspicion, there's something wrong with the original shift from the Hennepin County Medical Examiner report.
00:17:22.000The original county report said something completely different than the later report.
00:17:27.000And our friend from Alpha News, Liz Collin, has been on this since the very beginning, and she deserves a lot of credit, Liz Collin.
00:17:34.000But there is evidence to suggest that the...
00:17:37.000Hennepin County Medical Examiner was pressured in actually the report that was being issued.
00:17:44.000Floyd had a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, as shown by his autopsy, and there's evidence that he quickly ingested drugs, as you mentioned, to hide them from the cops.
00:19:02.000Ben, just mention briefly here, The autopsy was totally coerced, strong-armed.
00:19:07.000Usually we look at autopsy and say, well, there's no way politics could get in the way of a medical examination report.
00:19:13.000But it shows here that there was such a thrust, there was a willingness to reach a conclusion that America's racist during this political season.
00:19:22.000Remember, Trump was president during this.
00:19:26.000Speak about the political pressure in the medical examination process.
00:19:31.000Well, I mean, we know for a fact that there are people who are involved in this case, medical examiners and others, who are actually the subject of death threats.
00:19:37.000If you became a public figure in the Derek Chauvin case, the chances that you were going to be subjected to public pressure were incredibly high.
00:19:44.000There was only one major autopsy that was a complete documented autopsy of George Floyd, and it was performed, as you say, by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.
00:19:51.000A guy named Dr. Andrew Baker was performed about 12 hours after he died.
00:19:55.000And that autopsy found zero evidence of asphyxia.
00:19:58.000It found no life-threatening injuries.
00:20:00.000It found instead that Floyd died of cardiopulmonary arrest, meaning his heart and his lungs stopped working during, quote, law enforcement subdual restraint and neck compression.
00:20:08.000Also, he had a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in his blood, 11 milligrams per milliliter, along with a small amount of meth.
00:20:16.000As well as morphine, he also had arteriosclerotic heart disease, described as multifocal, severe hypertensive heart disease, and cardiomegaly, which is an enlarged heart.
00:20:25.000The second autopsy that was created was paid for by Floyd's family.
00:20:31.000They didn't have access to Floyd's toxicology report.
00:20:34.000They didn't have access to his tissue samples.
00:20:35.000They didn't have access to his organs, at least some of his organs.
00:20:39.000And one of the two medical examiners who's brought in, Dr. Michael Bodden, who's brought in to suggest that it was the cops who actually killed him.
00:20:45.000He got an enormous number of things wrong in the past.
00:20:48.000He was a person who was hired to perform an unofficial autopsy on Michael Brown, who we mentioned earlier.
00:20:53.000Michael Brown, of course, was the black man who was killed in a confrontation with a police officer named Officer Brown over in Ferguson, Missouri.
00:21:02.000And the autopsy in that particular case, Biden declared that there was no evidence of a struggle between Brown and Wilson, which was not true, because the cop had claimed, correctly, that Michael Brown reached into the car and fired a gun.
00:21:15.000In the car, which is what prompted the actual shooting of Michael Brown.
00:21:18.000And Biden got it wrong in that autopsy.
00:21:22.000So you have the original autopsy, which says no asphyxia, no actual physical evidence of serious damage.
00:21:28.000And he died of cardiopulmonary arrest, which, again, if you're just doing a basic analysis of, are you going to get excited when you, this is really one of the questions, are you going to get excited when you get arrested and you have drugs on you and then you swallow some of the drugs?
00:21:42.000This causes very often what they call excited delirium.
00:21:45.000If it spikes your blood pressure, if it spikes your heart rate, if you have massive pre-existing conditions, if you're a big dude with a lot of drugs in your system, and you're claiming you can't breathe before you even get on the ground, then how can you claim that it was the knee that caused the I can't breathe, as opposed to all of the other circumstances that were causing all of this?
00:22:04.000And again, just to put this in the most blunt terms, Chauvin did not crush Floyd's neck.
00:22:13.000So, Ben, explain to our audience then how on earth federal charges got involved here and therefore the President Trump wrinkle and angle.
00:22:24.000Because typically if there's a police situation where if the police acts improperly, usually the police officer will be handled by local authorities.
00:22:33.000There might be a DOJ investigation, albeit rare.
00:22:37.000But there were federal charges as well against Derek Chauvin.
00:22:40.000What were they, and why do you believe that Derek Chauvin deserves a pardon from the President of the United States?
00:22:47.000So the charges were brought under denial of civil rights.
00:22:51.000So these charges were brought, and Chauvin basically pled them out because the supposition was that these sentences were largely set to run concurrently.
00:22:59.000If it went to trial, he was one of the most highly publicized.
00:23:04.000He ended up on the lower end of the expected sentence, which was between 20 and 25 years, which is why he took the plea agreement in the first place.
00:23:27.000And again, the kind of attempt to say that this is a separate charge, this is one of the problems very often in criminal law, is that you can stack a federal charge on top of a state charge.
00:23:37.000The idea that this was a unique violation of civil rights as opposed to simply, even if you want to make the case it was a second degree murder, that this had to do with violation of civil rights.
00:23:45.000This is the sort of accusation that it was, in fact, racially driven, even though no evidence was presented to that real effect.
00:23:57.000Because there's also state charges as well.
00:23:59.000So explain to our audience how that works.
00:24:01.000So he would be transferred back to a state prison.
00:24:04.000There have been arguments made that I don't find particularly salutary or convincing, that if you were transferred from a federal prison to a state prison, this would be worse for him.
00:24:13.000That's certainly not what we've heard from his lawyers.
00:24:14.000The reason that I say that is because he was already stabbed 21 times last year in a federal prison, actually.
00:24:23.000If he is transferred, if the federal charges go away, if he's pardoned on the federal charges or a sentence commuted on the federal charges, he'll be transferred back to state prison.
00:24:30.000You can, in some instances, get time chalked up against you in a way, like you serve less time in state prison, probably get five years off his sentence for serving in state prison in a way that you don't with the federal charges.
00:24:42.000So just on a practical level, he will do less time in prison.
00:24:45.000If the federal charge goes away, then he otherwise would.
00:24:47.000He's not going to be pardoned on the state charges, unfortunately, because, again, the government of Minnesota is what the government of Minnesota is.
00:24:53.000Only the governor of Minnesota, the famed oddity Tim Walz, has the power to pardon him on the state charges, which, of course, Tim Walz will never in a million years do.
00:25:01.000But he would get time off his sentence in state prison in a way that he would not in federal prison.
00:25:05.000And, again, it would, I think, create an impetus for a reexamination of his case, I would hope, at the state level at some point in the future.
00:25:14.000A lesson for the audience and for us in times of hysteria to not repeat the same mistakes because in some ways I wish I would have even spoken out even more during the trial, but this was like top-level verboten.
00:25:28.000The Overton window has moved dramatically where now this is an acceptable, a little bit boundary pushing, but somewhat acceptable conversation to have.
00:25:37.000What is the takeaway for so many people here?
00:25:41.000To make sure the next time the media is force-feeding something like this.
00:26:12.000But I think that the main lesson we should take away from Floyd is that the social media era rewards immediate reaction and response.
00:26:19.000That is what the social media era, if you're the first person to comment on something in any way, you're likely to get a lot of clicks.
00:26:24.000And you're also likely to get it wrong.
00:26:26.000And so I think that the lesson from the George Floyd situation should be, as it usually is, why don't we wait for the evidence to come in?
00:26:34.000Before we jump to a conclusion about something that is highly publicized, why don't we wait for a little more evidence to come in?
00:26:40.000And determine then whether or not the thing is true.
00:26:43.000Because it turns out that at first blush, things may look one way, and it turns out that they are not that way at all.
00:26:49.000We've seen this over and over and over from the legacy media, ranging from elements of war to elements of domestic policy, where if you just waited another three days, then you would know a lot more than you originally knew.
00:27:00.000I will say that I think the American people have started to do that more, particularly on racially charged cases.
00:27:04.000And we've seen just too many race hoaxes like Jussie Smollett for people to now take at face value any narrative that's put out.
00:27:10.000People are like, you know, I'm going to wait like 48 hours, 48 hours, and I'll have a lot more information.
00:27:15.000If that had been done in this particular case, if people had waited for the medical autopsy to come out, if people had actually waited before immediately running to the streets to protest by the millions about American police brutality and racism, the world would have been a much different and better place.
00:27:40.000Play cut 11. Well, in addressing the unrest, former Vice President Joe Biden initially did not caution against violence but challenged white people to understand the everyday injustices black people suffer.
00:27:53.000That is just one example of hundreds we could play.
00:28:06.000This was, unfortunately, one of the deadlier, more crime-ridden summers since the 1990s because of the misrepresentation of this incident, Ben.
00:28:18.000So in order to truly understand what happened, you have to understand that the American crime rate had dropped steadily between about 2000, between 1994, which is when the crime bill was signed, the much maligned crime bill, and between 2013, the crime rate in virtually all of America's major cities went down.
00:28:32.000Then 2014, you get what's called the Ferguson effect, a term coined by Heather McDonald, which suggested that after the Michael Brown case, which again was a completely false case, the idea that Michael Brown was murdered by a white police officer, you saw a move toward de-policing in cities where cops said, you know, a term coined by Heather McDonald, which suggested that after the Michael Brown case, which again was a completely false case, the idea that Michael Brown was murdered by a white police officer, you saw a move toward de-policing in cities where cops said, you know, I'm not going to go into a dangerous situation in which I have to face down somebody of a different race because I might end up on tape.
00:28:52.000And if I do my job, I'm spending the rest of my life in prison.
00:28:54.000And that led to an increase of literally hundreds of murders over the course of the next few years.
00:28:58.000Then the crime rate seemed to even out over the course of the first Trump administration in many of these areas, sort of leveled out.
00:29:04.000And then in 2020, it absolutely skyrocketed because all over the country, there were city councils that were withdrawing funding.
00:29:12.000Police officers are human beings, as it turns out, and they know the math.
00:29:15.000If you go out and you do your job and if you have to shoot a person who is not your race, if you're a white cop and you shoot a black person and it turns out that it's under any disputed circumstances or even in many cases in undisputed circumstances, you will become a target of such ire that you may find yourself in the dock.
00:30:15.000And that doesn't even include things like Chaz Chop in Seattle, where an entire city of Seattle was basically taken over by Antifa rioters, or the takeover of Portland completely by Antifa and the wrecking of a great American city, the destruction of San Francisco.
00:30:29.000All of these things happened on the back of the BLM moment when it turns out that the police became writ large, the great villains in the American national story, and it turns out that without the cops, things get real bad real fast.
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00:32:22.000Prop 16 would have had legalized racial prejudice, which got defeated by 16 points despite all the institutions.
00:32:29.000So you're asking me, what did wokeism look like when California, when all the institutions, yourself included, with all due respect, embraced this insane ballot measure?
00:33:20.000It doesn't have to just be my conversation with him.
00:33:22.000His podcast, his attempt to reinvent himself, to move to the middle end.
00:33:26.000What is the truth of how California is?
00:33:30.000Let's just say, operate in the last decade.
00:33:32.000So first of all, Charlie, I thought you were spectacular with Gavin Newsom, and he could not stand up to the scrutiny that you put him under.
00:33:57.000It's very difficult to imagine a thing that Gavin Newsom did not help make worse in the state of California.
00:34:03.000I mean, there was a massive decarceration movement that happened under both Gavin Newsom and his predecessor, Jerry Brown, an attempt to basically empty out prisons in California because of, quote unquote, over incarceration and because of prison crowding.
00:34:15.000And so one of the things that major cities and counties in California did was they actually stopped prosecuting misdemeanors entirely because they were so afraid of actually jailing people that they said, OK, if you shoplift under a certain amount, we just won't call it a misdemeanor anymore.
00:34:27.000And so San Francisco became a place where you could basically just walk into a CVS, fill up a couple of bags and walk out and know that even if you were arrested, that you were then going to be released back into public charge pretty much the next day.
00:34:38.000And so police officers stopped actually doing any of this stuff.
00:34:41.000Again, California is a great example of what happens when a state is so governed by wokeism and dumb ideology that the state gets materially worse.
00:34:49.000And it's fun to watch Gavin Newsom now try to sort of fix his public profile.
00:34:55.000He understands that in 2020, 2024, if he wanted to move in the Democratic Party, he had to move way to the left.
00:35:01.000And now he's recognizing that after President Trump's victory that the Democratic Party, if it wishes to win in the future, is going to have to try to make some move toward the center.
00:35:09.000The problem is that he has anchored his record so hard to the left.
00:35:12.000It's very difficult to see how he can stretch beyond that back to a center that he abandoned long ago.
00:35:17.000Ben, I think you should go on the Gavin Newsom podcast.
00:35:20.000I think that you could prosecute the case in California.
00:35:25.000I have not lived in, let me put it this way, I have not had the pleasure of walking by Sepulveda Boulevard and having to walk over homeless people in order to get to The office building.
00:35:37.000I've not had the first-hand experience, which he always, Gavin will always go to the argument from authority.
00:36:41.000And what you've seen is that all the red areas of the country are gaining population and all the blue areas of the country are radically losing population.
00:36:47.000By the way, this is such a threat to the future of democratic rule in this country.
00:36:50.000I pointed this out before, and it's really important.
00:37:28.000He absolutely should, because the reality is, and again, this was publicly acknowledged by Joe Biden's Commerce Department.
00:37:33.000They publicly acknowledged that the Commerce Department had done it wrong, and that again, there were seats in Congress, by the way, not just the Electoral College, in Congress, that were removed from Florida, from Texas, from Arizona, from a wide spate of states that President Trump won, and then there were states that lost population that were over-counted in the census, like New York, New Jersey, and California.
00:37:53.000And as I say, Minnesota, all of these states lost population.
00:37:57.000But they didn't lose congressional seats or electoral votes the way that they should have in line with the Senate.
00:38:01.000So, listen, if that passes constitutional muster, and we should check that with the current Solicitor General and AJ, that is something absolutely the Trump administration should do because you want to talk about equal representation.