Robbie Starbuck joins the show to talk about his latest lawsuit against Google, and how they created a fictional novel about his life that never existed. Also, a new technology that could only be described as "de-wokeness" is being developed by Google.
00:00:56.000The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
00:01:09.000All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:01:11.000Right now, we're going to welcome in Robbie Starbuck, friend of the show, friend of Charlie's.
00:01:46.000I mean, you have been absolutely tip of the spear on a lot of this corporate activism, de-wokeifying the corporate corporations in America and the boardrooms, getting them to sort of come to their senses again, Robbie.
00:02:10.000But they basically are accusing you of having a criminal record and all of these allegations.
00:02:17.000And they not only invented the criminal record, but they invented fake victims, fake therapy records, fake court records, fake police records, fake.
00:02:25.000So they built the whole novel about your life that never existed.
00:02:40.000But yeah, no, to rewind this, it started two years ago with their product called Bard.
00:02:46.000Bard had made up all kinds of crazy stuff saying that I was a supporter of the KKK and that it made arguments for why I should be put to death for offending leftists.
00:02:56.000And so, you know, we raised the red flag to Google and said, hey, this is serious problem needs to be fixed.
00:03:01.000So they were put on notice two years ago and they obviously didn't fix anything because throughout the other iterations of their AI, Bard became Gemini and then they have the deep mind model called Gemma.
00:03:14.000Gemma is the most pervasively malicious model that they have put out.
00:03:19.000It has accused me of being an alleged child rapist, of being on the Epstein list, of being a shooter, being wanted for murder at one point, all kinds of crazy stuff.
00:03:34.000It's not some, you know, one-liner issue where it just invents something for one line and then it pops back into reality or something like that.
00:03:42.000No, this is a committed, elaborate lie where it names victims, it names evidence like therapy records, police documents, court records, and then it does something that I have never seen from any AI and can only be described as totally malicious.
00:03:58.000And it is that it adds in news articles.
00:04:01.000When you ask it to cite its sources, it will create fake articles from real media outlets.
00:04:07.000So it'll say, oh yeah, read this story in Fox News, read this story in the Daily Wire, read this story in Human Events, read this story in MSNBC.
00:04:14.000And it'll even create a fake link and a fake headline to the story.
00:04:18.000So it's trying to launder the elaborate lies it tells by imitating and impersonating these media outlets that people maybe inherently trust, right?
00:04:28.000And so their hope is you don't click it.
00:04:30.000But if you do click it and you say, hey, these links don't work, it says, oh, don't worry about that.
00:04:34.000It will actually write a full fake article about these supposed events.
00:04:38.000So it leads the person to believe that this actually occurred.
00:04:42.000Unless you really, really, really, really, really know me, like, you know, my wife, you know, you would question these things.
00:05:03.000I mean, this is a this is sort of like a worst case scenario.
00:05:06.000AI, at least in its current iteration, I'm sure as the technology advances, we can think of even more elaborate and terrible things that could happen in the future.
00:05:16.000Robbie, but this is this is and I want to get your I'm not sure what you're allowed to even speculate on because now you have a you have a court case here.
00:05:25.000But like my question is, is this the AI that has decided to target you maybe for some of your corporate activism?
00:05:33.000You know, or do you think there's still a person behind this that basically put a digital AI hit on you and then the AI has been unleashed to do its bidding of its master?
00:06:48.000You know, if you look at the company, the history of it, these are executives running this company who cried when Donald Trump was elected.
00:06:55.000You're telling me that these folks who have fought for policies like DEI and ingrained it throughout their organization are not giant, you know, sort of enemies to what I fight for?
00:07:16.000Jack, feel free to chime in here if you've got questions.
00:07:19.000But, I mean, I've got like 20 of them.
00:07:21.000So this reminds me, Robbie, of this Media Research Center article, this research piece that they just put out recently where it's talking about – and this is beyond just Google's AI, but it's the actual Google main search engine – where they're talking about how if you search, apparently it's like – I have to look at the names again.
00:07:39.000I think it's like J.D. Vance, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobiec, a couple of other people.
00:07:45.000And if you search some of these names, the very first Google link that comes up is the disgraced far-left Antifa-linked organization of the SPLC, which so many people, including Elon Musk and the FBI, are no longer using as a credible source.
00:07:59.000And yet for some reason Google puts that as the very first result, which is an organization that just exists as a smear factory, when even by Google's own metrics they used to say that the highest-ranking ones are the ones that people cite the most.
00:08:12.000And you can't even find any actual – they found – MRC went through and they said we couldn't find any evidence to back up people citing this.
00:08:22.000Yeah, I mean, to me that looks like intentionally poisoned data sets, right, and choices that the company is making.
00:08:28.000When you think about this, actually, to your point, the SPLC was cited by their AI in many cases as backup for the lies that it was inventing.
00:08:38.000So this is happening on their AI platforms as well.
00:08:41.000I will say this, you know, my lawsuit at the end of it, I think one of the big goals here is you fix the bias long-term throughout Google products because this just cannot happen.
00:08:51.000People need to understand there's a multitude of different second-order effects from this type of behavior from a company, right?
00:08:58.000One is think about the deployment of this sort of defamation during election seasons, right?
00:09:03.000So, think about the closest seats, the ones that decide the balance of power in our country.
00:09:08.000If Google is allowed to deploy malicious AI that defames candidates and they do it to the candidates they don't like, you could see an election where a bunch of the tightest races see the Republican candidates described with fake crimes that they never committed and associating them with the most heinous beliefs and things you possibly could, while you go and fluff up the resumes of leftists who are totally not, you know, in a position where anybody should be electing them to even dog catcher, right?
00:09:36.000And so you could see the balance of power in the country decided by maliciously programmed AI.
00:09:41.000And the second, you know, thing I would say is safety.
00:09:44.000I mean, this is the most obvious conversation, right?
00:09:47.000Google was linking to what I would describe as a very hateful group, the SPLC, who has this supposed hate list that looks more like a hit list, right?
00:09:55.000And then their AI is describing conservatives like me the way that we've seen it describe me and the way that it has framed me as a criminal, you know?
00:10:03.000And so the end result is, what do you think they want to happen?
00:10:06.000We could all end up victims the way Charlie was.
00:10:11.000Listen, there's no way around it when it comes to healthcare.
00:10:14.000People are really frustrated with how much it costs and how to pay for it.
00:10:19.000The usual ways we've been doing this have only gotten more expensive, more complicated, and honestly, just aggravating.
00:10:24.000And that's why MetaShare is such a welcome relief.
00:11:39.000Everybody's worried about Jack that this is putting a target on his back.
00:11:42.000I mean, I think posts, what happened with Charlie, everybody's terrified about that.
00:11:47.000And, you know, rightfully so, but this is a new iteration in this battle for keeping our people safe and our activists safe like you, Robbie.
00:11:57.000And I totally agree that this is if somebody just, some left-wing lunatic on some Discord chat started quoting Gemini, or what did you call it?
00:12:05.000Gamma, Gemma, Gemma, like if they start quoting this as an authoritative source, who knows who that would radicalize?
00:12:13.000Not to mention the defamation and the character assassination that this puts you in, but at 1000% puts a target on your back.
00:12:21.000And, you know, I think our audience would love to hear how you feel about that.
00:12:25.000Yeah, I mean, the FBI right now is investigating multiple death threats against me.
00:12:30.000And a man was arrested in this last year for wanting to kill me.
00:12:33.000And so natural question: did any of them read about me through Google AI platforms?
00:12:39.000We don't know, you know, but I would like to know.
00:12:41.000I think that, you know, it's not a leap to say somebody could be radicalized by this and try to kill somebody.
00:12:47.000You know, beyond me, though, like this hasn't happened yet to the degree that I think it sadly will one day.
00:12:55.000But some of our families are in danger too, right?
00:12:58.000Like some lunatic could make a mistake and think they're coming after one of us and we're actually not there and they actually attack our children or our wives.
00:13:08.000And I'm, you know, frankly dreading that day coming.
00:13:12.000I just feel like that is the next thing that's going to happen in this left-wing terror because I know the types of threats that you guys and myself and our friends are getting.
00:13:31.000And that's something that makes it very hard to sleep at night, you know.
00:13:34.000And I think that these companies like Google are being grossly negligent in what they've done by essentially backing up the most radical lies about us.
00:14:06.000My kids are trained, you know, like, God forbid, but they are.
00:14:09.000They're trained on how to handle a firearm competently because, God forbid, that moment comes, some crazy person, which has happened before, they've shown up in our house.
00:14:18.000You know, I want my kids to be able to defend themselves, you know?
00:14:25.000You know, I saw this tweet recently, like, only we have to live like this.
00:14:29.000And I don't want my enemies to live like this.
00:14:31.000You know, I wouldn't wish it on their children or their spouses.
00:14:34.000And it's disgusting that that is the case, but that's that's where we are.
00:14:38.000You know, another thing I'd throw out about this Google story, and this is sort of breaking here, is I am in contact with the House Judiciary Committee.
00:14:45.000And I think you're going to see a lot more on that angle very soon.
00:14:52.000So, yeah, it reminds everything we're talking about here, though, by the way, guys, reminds me.
00:14:56.000We had Mike Cernovich on the show, and you know, after this no king stuff, and he had that great tweet where he was like, Listen, you all get to have your protests, and you're not worried about snipers on some buildings, you're not worried about somebody coming up and assaulting you because, you know, we don't do that sort of thing on our side.
00:15:16.000We believe in law and order, open debate, open dialogue.
00:15:19.000Meanwhile, you guys are openly mocking the death of Charlie.
00:15:24.000You're antagonizing conservatives with hand gestures to the neck.
00:15:29.000We have Jolanda Jones on CNN last night on Aaron Burnett.
00:15:33.000She's running for Congress saying that we're not going to punch you back in the face.
00:15:36.000We're going to come at your neck across your neck.
00:15:38.000We've got a student at ASU that says, watch your necks.
00:15:42.000I mean, this is what this is the modern left and the rise of left-wing violence and a political assassination culture that I think was sparked with Luigi Maggioni as the inciting incident, but obviously that had been building behind the scenes for a long time.
00:15:58.000This is the core political and cultural issue of our current epoch.
00:17:29.000One, one piece that I've been trying to work hard to get out there, and I mentioned this on Piers Morgan the other day as well.
00:17:35.000And it didn't go quite as viral as some of the other moments from that interview.
00:17:40.000But the phrase no kings itself is a phrase that derives from the French Revolution.
00:17:48.000No kings, no lords is specifically derives from the French Revolution.
00:17:53.000So the original No Kings protests are also known as the reign of terror and included, of course, the ubiquitous guillotine by Maximilian Robespierre, where they were beheading public officials in the streets of Paris.
00:18:09.000So when you have a phrase like this, no kings, and then Antifa for years has used no kings, no masters.
00:18:15.000So they will say no kings, no masters, as they launch these attacks on streets, on public conservatives, things like that, on churches, burning churches.
00:18:25.000That was one of the original slogans of the Jacobins of the French Revolution, the most violent group.
00:18:29.000Then no kings, no masters gets brought up by that Antifa groups over the years and over the past few decades.
00:18:36.000And now we see the mass mainstreaming of this violent rhetoric, no kings, in the no kings protests.
00:18:43.000And so, this is a phrase, again, just like Bella Chow, just like Hey Fascist Catch, like all these other Antifa symbols and Antifa symbology that if you've been researching these groups, you're actually very familiar with, but it's now being mainstreamed on a much bigger level that people aren't familiar with.
00:19:01.000And because the media doesn't do any actual research, they don't realize the references that they're making.
00:19:05.000Actually, in the clip you just showed, they mentioned 1930s Germany, 1930s Germany, the Weimar Republic, was the first iteration of Antifa.
00:19:14.000So they know exactly what they're referencing.
00:19:17.000No kings, they know where that comes from.
00:19:20.000It is violence, and it has always been violence upon which this rests upon.
00:19:25.000And Jack and Robbie, I want to throw to you, Robbie, next, just because you're the victim of this incredible defamation, this slander campaign from an AI.
00:19:34.000But, you know, what you're just talking about, Jack, it reminds me of those, we would mock it during the, I think in 2024, 2023, where, you know, the SPLC and the ADL had these long, elaborate databases of all the numbers that were used by white supremacists.
00:19:49.000And it was like, there was basically like three numbers left.
00:19:53.000Every single number was somehow coded in white supremacist lore.
00:20:01.000But there is such a lack of just interest by the media to document some of these far-left code codings that you're seeing at these at these rallys.
00:21:04.000So I'm suing Google, not just for me, but to make this stop, to fix the bias in AI in companies like Google and to hold them accountable for what they've done.
00:21:14.000Because we don't want to wait for there to be another Charlie type of event.
00:21:19.000But we are on a path right now where there is going to be.
00:21:23.000And so it's going to take concerted effort and action from all of us.
00:21:26.000Call on your elected representatives, do something about this.
00:21:29.000You know, I think this should be one of the great issues of our time: ensuring that AI cannot harm humans.
00:21:34.000That should be a first principle of AI.
00:23:31.000So, Megan, You had this really, I think, just it, you know, sometimes you see somebody, they, they crystallize something for you in a moment, in a tweet, in a thought.
00:23:43.000And this has been something that's really been bothering me, actually.
00:24:36.000And I just thought that was so well put and a point well made, Megan, because like, yes, everybody could, you know, especially in evangelical circles.
00:24:46.000We're not talking about Antifa here or the far left wackos.
00:24:49.000Of course, they said this is terrible.
00:25:18.000And what is the pro what is the issue here that is holding Big Eva back, which is getting in their way from embracing wholeheartedly somebody like Charlie?
00:25:28.000Yeah, I'm so glad that you invited me on to talk about this, Andrew, because it drives me nuts.
00:25:32.000And if you follow me on X, you probably have picked up how much it drives me nuts that there is this double standard about embracing somebody who is doing evangelism, who is speaking in the Christian space, but who is politically connected.
00:25:48.000Because you will have an organization like the Gospel Coalition.
00:26:00.000And what they do is they will bring on people like Michael Ware, who is a Democratic operative who worked in the Obama administration.
00:26:09.000And they will put him forward as somebody who is doing faith and politics combined very well.
00:26:15.000They will also have someone like Justin Gibbony of the AND campaign, someone who our friend Alibeth Stuckey has covered a lot, who is a Democratic activist, even as he kind of tours to these allegedly conservative churches and conferences.
00:26:30.000So they're happy to welcome him, but they were never happy to welcome Charlie.
00:26:34.000You never saw Charlie spoken well of on the gospel coalition.
00:26:38.000You never saw him being invited to their conferences.
00:26:44.000I sent this over to you, but this was the attitude that they took with Charlie.
00:26:48.000In 2021, one of their primary writers and vice president over at the conservative Christian publisher Crossway said something like, you know, you don't have to give Charlie Kirk more views, right?
00:27:03.000That perfectly encapsulates sort of the attitude that they took towards Charlie.
00:27:08.000You did not see him getting invited to chapels to speak at, say, Wheaton or Biola or even Grove City or any of these colleges that are supposed to be conservative Christian colleges, Orthodox colleges.
00:27:22.000So they were happy to have the Democratic operatives on, but they were not happy to have Charlie on.
00:27:28.000And then even further, you know, when Charlie was assassinated, when he was martyred, and I want to use that word very specifically, they were put in an awkward position because suddenly people who hadn't been paying attention that closely saw an outpouring of love for the Lord, a strong, bold Christian witness.
00:27:50.000And I think that served as a rebuke to the sort of squishy faith that has been embraced and the kind of compromises that we've seen in big evangelicalism.
00:28:01.000So suddenly there was this stark contrast to what they had been doing.
00:28:07.000And that put them, I think, in a difficult position.
00:28:09.000So you did see some well wishes after that.
00:28:12.000But just as quickly as you saw the well wishes and you saw the laments and saying, we're very sorry that this happened, they were very careful not to praise his politics.
00:28:21.000And after that, you started to even see, I mean, maybe it took maybe a week, two weeks before the heavily critical article started to come out.
00:28:29.000Then Christianity Today ran, you know, something on, well, the black voices in our churches are not so happy that we are lamenting Charlie Kirk's death.
00:28:40.000And by the way, I also want to add Christianity today to those who were very dismissive of Charlie before his death.
00:28:46.000Their editor-in-chief, Russell Moore, on his podcast, would do things.
00:28:50.000He wouldn't name TPUSA, but he would talk about these political campus movements that are dividing the faith.
00:28:57.000And it was obviously a reference to Charlie and TPUSA.
00:29:01.000So when Charlie was assassinated and people saw so clearly what his record was on evangelizing, on getting out to college campuses and speaking to young people, young men in particular, in the way that I quoted in that tweet, because he did say that.
00:29:16.000He said, You young men, stop going to the bar, start going to Bible studies, you know, just putting it plainly, really the heir to Billy Graham in a very strong way.
00:29:25.000So when that happened, that put them in an awkward position.
00:29:28.000And then you started to see things like these very well-known conservative Christian conference speakers starting to criticize Charlie and starting to say, Hey, wait a minute, let's not be too eager to look to his model, even as we're seeing, you know, all of these people coming to the faith on the basis of what they saw at the memorial and speaking that he did and all of these clips that are now circulating.
00:29:56.000So, one example of that is Pastor Mike Kelsey, who is a co-pastor of McLean Bible Church in Washington, D.C. It is supposed to be a conservative Orthodox church, and yet here is what he said right after Charlie Kirk's death.
00:30:13.000If you can play the Mike Kelsey clip, we have the clip.
00:30:18.000In fact, in some cases, I was shocked that so many professing Christians were rationalizing things that were so demeaning and unchrist-like, and not just rationalizing things he said, but idolizing him as the prototype for a new generation of Christians.
00:30:32.000And here's my point in all of that: this is not just Charlie Kirk.
00:30:39.000Every single one of us is tempted to talk to or about people in ways that not only dishonor them, but the God who created them in his image.
00:30:52.000So I just want to say one thing here, really quick.
00:30:55.000Yeah, I mean, so Charlie knew that his calling from the Lord was very specific.
00:31:05.000Because they speak the truth boldly and clearly and without reservation, and the people hate it.
00:31:12.000And what he said this multiple times, said it to me, he said it on podcasts.
00:31:16.000He was put on this planet to confront evil and to proclaim the truth.
00:31:21.000And what this tells me is that there is evil, that it lies, whatever, that are being clung to within the halls of the church, within the four walls of the church.
00:32:30.000And so it's not that I don't appreciate his stances on abortion, on sexuality, on marriage, but it's also I hear other things alongside that that don't give martyr.
00:32:51.000We would not say that John the Baptist was not a martyr because, well, technically, he was murdered because he called out King Herod for his incestuous marriage to his niece.
00:33:05.000We recognize that when you are murdered for your Christian beliefs, you are a legitimate martyr and Charlie was.
00:33:11.000And so what we are not seeing from all of these large evangelical outlets and seminaries and schools is we're not seeing any correction or rebuke for this kind of language.
00:33:24.000And so even as they have somewhat come out after the fact and now said, well, okay, you know, Charlie had some good things that he did.
00:33:31.000He did sort of draw some young men to faith.
00:33:34.000They're in an awkward position because what Charlie's example did is it pointed out how they have failed to do that.
00:33:41.000They have failed to speak to the young men.
00:33:43.000They have failed to pick up that mantle of Billy Graham and evangelize the next generation.
00:33:49.000And, you know, there's a very specific thing here that puts them in this awkward position, and it's something called the third way.
00:33:56.000And if you're not familiar with that, it's a method of evangelizing that says because we want to save some people in the church and bring them to church, we want to be very careful not to align politically with either the left or right.
00:34:12.000We have to say that, you know, Jesus wasn't a Democrat or a Republican as if the two sides are morally equal, as if there's a symmetry between them.
00:34:23.000And they'll do tricky things like say, oh, well, you know, they're here on immigration and the right is here on abortion.
00:34:29.000And both of those are pro-life issues, even though one is, you know, a legitimately biblically debatable issue and the other one is murder and not debatable.
00:34:37.000So, you know, I think that what we're seeing now is that they kept Charlie at arm's length because he showed a different way that wasn't the third way.
00:34:44.000It was a bold Christian witness that said, these are my political priorities and these are my political priorities because I follow Christ.
00:34:52.000What it makes me think of is fear God, not man.
00:34:55.000And these churches, Big Eva, guess who they fear?
00:36:10.000The young kids, they don't want you to kind of sanitize all this stuff for them.
00:36:14.000They will come in flocks for you to say the blunt truth that you think is going to offend them.
00:36:19.000Yes, you need Jesus, but do you know why?
00:36:22.000You see, the reason why it's not yet being translated into revival is that they say, of course, Jesus is your savior, but we're not connecting the dots.
00:36:30.000How do you know you need a savior if you don't know what you're saved from?
00:36:33.000And you only know what you're saved from if you talk about sin.
00:36:36.000So we focus everything on the fact that someone's going to save you from drowning, yet we don't tell a generation that they're drowning.
00:36:42.000It's the most suicidal generation in history, the most drug-addicted generation in history, the most porn addicted generation in history, but objectively the most miserable generation in history.
00:36:52.000And yet we say, you're just perfect the way you are.
00:36:55.000They don't feel perfect the way they are.
00:36:58.000They're telling you that everything is not okay.
00:37:00.000And the message that Christianity gives you is, well, he gets you or whatever that commercial is.
00:37:05.000No, that's actually not how you win young people over.
00:37:07.000You win them over being like, you know what?
00:37:48.000Jack, talk about that, maybe about what you're seeing in the Catholic Church and why this sort of like traditional presentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ is working right now.
00:37:58.000Yeah, no, it's certainly something that we see in the Catholic Church, but a lot of people have to understand.
00:38:04.000Like, he's going kind of woke on a few things the same way Francis was.
00:38:08.000And something actually Charlie and I even talked about when I was on this show from the conclave when Pope Leo came in.
00:38:14.000And Charlie was the first person I spoke to about that.
00:38:16.000What you really see going on on the Catholic side right now is the Tradcath movement and the Tradcath movement, which apparently was so radical that the FBI, under the auspices of Merrick Garland and Chris Ray, launched an investigation into us because I guess we were playing the rosary a little bit too hard and a little bit too Latin-y.
00:38:38.000But it's the Latin Mass that's really attracting a lot of people because the Latin Mass is willing to stand up and most practitioners of Latin Mass or what they call it, like TLM, the traditional Atlanta Mass, that it's not woke.
00:38:53.000You won't find those female Eucharistic ministers.
00:38:59.000It's just full-on, traditional, unchanging, unchanging biblical doctrine, unchanging truth, and unchanging homilies where they guys will get up there and say, We live in a sinful time and you need to repent of your sinful ways.
00:39:15.000And I think people are just thirsty for that.
00:39:17.000They want something that's righteous and true, not something that is lukewarm, because as we know, that which is lukewarm gets spit out.
00:39:25.000And Megan, I want to get your reaction to that clip you saw of Charlie.
00:39:29.000I mean, it was just such a confrontation to the skinny jeans, TED taught Christianity, and the clean language, and never going to offend the Starbucks Cup.
00:39:38.000And I feel like if there was the spirit of the age, like in the church, at least, that is just so it.
00:40:40.000And then the other thing was, I think, that Charlie, and I didn't have time to grab a clip of this, but it's circulating out there on social media.
00:40:47.000He wasn't afraid to call out their sins, the big evangelical machine sins.
00:40:52.000And I think that is another reason that they didn't want him because who knows what he might say.
00:40:57.000You know, he kind of boldly called out Biola, which is a well-known evangelical institution school.
00:41:21.000And so, you know, they wouldn't invite him for that reason, even though he was more effective at bringing young people to Christ than anyone else in our generation.
00:41:30.000And, you know, I've seen it in my own life just this week.
00:41:32.000My husband has a young trainer, you know, buff-built, 20-something, tatted up.
00:41:38.000And he came to us a couple of weeks ago after Charlie's death and just said, Hey, can I come to church with you?
00:41:43.000I am feeling really affected by all this, and you've been inviting me, and I want to come.
00:41:48.000You know, and the same pastor was telling me that he thinks that the revival is going to bypass a lot of the church pews, that it's going to like it's going to completely bypass them because these are testing moments in our culture.
00:42:01.000These are testing moments, and you either pass the test or you fail it.