The Charlie Kirk Show - October 24, 2025


The Charlie Revival is Underway — Are You In or Out?


Episode Stats


Length

42 minutes

Words per minute

181.53362

Word count

7,694

Sentence count

518

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Robbie Starbuck joins the show to talk about his latest lawsuit against Google, and how they created a fictional novel about his life that never existed. Also, a new technology that could only be described as "de-wokeness" is being developed by Google.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.
00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.
00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.
00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.
00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful.
00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.
00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.
00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.
00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.
00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA high school chapter.
00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.
00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.
00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.
00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.
00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.
00:00:45.000 Here I am, Lord Museman.
00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:49.000 Here we go.
00:00:56.000 The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
00:01:09.000 All right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:01:11.000 Right now, we're going to welcome in Robbie Starbuck, friend of the show, friend of Charlie's.
00:01:15.000 He's a filmmaker host.
00:01:17.000 He's a corporate activist, and he is now suing Google to, I guess he did it yesterday.
00:01:25.000 He announced it in a story that could only be described as legitimately dystopian.
00:01:31.000 Robbie Starbuck, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show, my friend.
00:01:34.000 And it's so good to have you back on the show.
00:01:37.000 It's good to see y'all.
00:01:37.000 Thank you, guys.
00:01:38.000 Yeah.
00:01:39.000 So you got Jack Masovic here, by the way.
00:01:42.000 There you go.
00:01:43.000 And so you're suing Google.
00:01:46.000 I mean, you have been absolutely tip of the spear on a lot of this corporate activism, de-wokeifying the corporate corporations in America and the boardrooms, getting them to sort of come to their senses again, Robbie.
00:02:00.000 But this story is crazy.
00:02:02.000 It's like Google AI just created, this is, what is this, Gemini?
00:02:07.000 Or I guess there's three different names.
00:02:09.000 You can explain it to us.
00:02:10.000 But they basically are accusing you of having a criminal record and all of these allegations.
00:02:17.000 And they not only invented the criminal record, but they invented fake victims, fake therapy records, fake court records, fake police records, fake.
00:02:25.000 So they built the whole novel about your life that never existed.
00:02:30.000 Tell us what's going on here.
00:02:31.000 This is unless Robbie, Robbie, confirm for us right now.
00:02:34.000 Are you in La Cosa Nostra?
00:02:36.000 Were you part of this NBA scheme?
00:02:38.000 Google would probably say yes.
00:02:40.000 But yeah, no, to rewind this, it started two years ago with their product called Bard.
00:02:46.000 Bard had made up all kinds of crazy stuff saying that I was a supporter of the KKK and that it made arguments for why I should be put to death for offending leftists.
00:02:56.000 And so, you know, we raised the red flag to Google and said, hey, this is serious problem needs to be fixed.
00:03:01.000 So they were put on notice two years ago and they obviously didn't fix anything because throughout the other iterations of their AI, Bard became Gemini and then they have the deep mind model called Gemma.
00:03:14.000 Gemma is the most pervasively malicious model that they have put out.
00:03:19.000 It has accused me of being an alleged child rapist, of being on the Epstein list, of being a shooter, being wanted for murder at one point, all kinds of crazy stuff.
00:03:32.000 And here is the wildest part.
00:03:34.000 It's not some, you know, one-liner issue where it just invents something for one line and then it pops back into reality or something like that.
00:03:42.000 No, this is a committed, elaborate lie where it names victims, it names evidence like therapy records, police documents, court records, and then it does something that I have never seen from any AI and can only be described as totally malicious.
00:03:58.000 And it is that it adds in news articles.
00:04:01.000 When you ask it to cite its sources, it will create fake articles from real media outlets.
00:04:07.000 So it'll say, oh yeah, read this story in Fox News, read this story in the Daily Wire, read this story in Human Events, read this story in MSNBC.
00:04:14.000 And it'll even create a fake link and a fake headline to the story.
00:04:18.000 So it's trying to launder the elaborate lies it tells by imitating and impersonating these media outlets that people maybe inherently trust, right?
00:04:28.000 And so their hope is you don't click it.
00:04:30.000 But if you do click it and you say, hey, these links don't work, it says, oh, don't worry about that.
00:04:34.000 It will actually write a full fake article about these supposed events.
00:04:38.000 So it leads the person to believe that this actually occurred.
00:04:42.000 Unless you really, really, really, really, really know me, like, you know, my wife, you know, you would question these things.
00:04:50.000 It is so elaborate, so detailed.
00:04:51.000 How could you not when it's naming victims, naming, you know, Rolling Stone exposés and all of these really intimate, horrible details of these alleged supposed rapes?
00:05:02.000 Oh, that's great.
00:05:03.000 I mean, this is a this is sort of like a worst case scenario.
00:05:06.000 AI, at least in its current iteration, I'm sure as the technology advances, we can think of even more elaborate and terrible things that could happen in the future.
00:05:16.000 Robbie, but this is this is and I want to get your I'm not sure what you're allowed to even speculate on because now you have a you have a court case here.
00:05:25.000 But like my question is, is this the AI that has decided to target you maybe for some of your corporate activism?
00:05:33.000 You know, or do you think there's still a person behind this that basically put a digital AI hit on you and then the AI has been unleashed to do its bidding of its master?
00:05:45.000 Or is it its own master?
00:05:46.000 You know, it's interesting.
00:05:47.000 I wish we knew the exact answer to that question.
00:05:50.000 And I have my own opinion, but I think maybe the one I should put front and center is actually Google's AI and their opinion.
00:05:58.000 Google's AI says that what it has done is so malicious, so consistent and has so many different moving parts and so many unique lies.
00:06:09.000 And the fact that Google hasn't fixed it leads it to believe and it has said that Google did this for political reasons.
00:06:16.000 Their own AI said this, that there was a political reason for why this is occurring and why it hasn't been fixed.
00:06:24.000 We didn't feed that answer to it.
00:06:26.000 That is what Google's own artificial intelligence says repeatedly, not once, but many times.
00:06:31.000 And so, you know, to me, you know, I sort of use Occam's razor like what is the simplest answer?
00:06:36.000 Because simplest answer is probably right.
00:06:39.000 And simplest answer to me is that there's bias injected into it on purpose because Google, it's no secret, is a left-wing company.
00:06:47.000 So that's my opinion.
00:06:48.000 You know, if you look at the company, the history of it, these are executives running this company who cried when Donald Trump was elected.
00:06:55.000 You're telling me that these folks who have fought for policies like DEI and ingrained it throughout their organization are not giant, you know, sort of enemies to what I fight for?
00:07:06.000 Yeah, I'm sure they are.
00:07:08.000 You know, so it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case because it's sort of the simplest answer that makes the most sense.
00:07:14.000 And their AI seems to agree.
00:07:16.000 Jack, feel free to chime in here if you've got questions.
00:07:19.000 But, I mean, I've got like 20 of them.
00:07:21.000 So this reminds me, Robbie, of this Media Research Center article, this research piece that they just put out recently where it's talking about – and this is beyond just Google's AI, but it's the actual Google main search engine – where they're talking about how if you search, apparently it's like – I have to look at the names again.
00:07:39.000 I think it's like J.D. Vance, Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobiec, a couple of other people.
00:07:45.000 And if you search some of these names, the very first Google link that comes up is the disgraced far-left Antifa-linked organization of the SPLC, which so many people, including Elon Musk and the FBI, are no longer using as a credible source.
00:07:59.000 And yet for some reason Google puts that as the very first result, which is an organization that just exists as a smear factory, when even by Google's own metrics they used to say that the highest-ranking ones are the ones that people cite the most.
00:08:12.000 And you can't even find any actual – they found – MRC went through and they said we couldn't find any evidence to back up people citing this.
00:08:21.000 So why is it the number one result?
00:08:22.000 Yeah, I mean, to me that looks like intentionally poisoned data sets, right, and choices that the company is making.
00:08:28.000 When you think about this, actually, to your point, the SPLC was cited by their AI in many cases as backup for the lies that it was inventing.
00:08:38.000 So this is happening on their AI platforms as well.
00:08:41.000 I will say this, you know, my lawsuit at the end of it, I think one of the big goals here is you fix the bias long-term throughout Google products because this just cannot happen.
00:08:51.000 People need to understand there's a multitude of different second-order effects from this type of behavior from a company, right?
00:08:58.000 One is think about the deployment of this sort of defamation during election seasons, right?
00:09:03.000 So, think about the closest seats, the ones that decide the balance of power in our country.
00:09:08.000 If Google is allowed to deploy malicious AI that defames candidates and they do it to the candidates they don't like, you could see an election where a bunch of the tightest races see the Republican candidates described with fake crimes that they never committed and associating them with the most heinous beliefs and things you possibly could, while you go and fluff up the resumes of leftists who are totally not, you know, in a position where anybody should be electing them to even dog catcher, right?
00:09:36.000 And so you could see the balance of power in the country decided by maliciously programmed AI.
00:09:41.000 And the second, you know, thing I would say is safety.
00:09:44.000 I mean, this is the most obvious conversation, right?
00:09:47.000 Google was linking to what I would describe as a very hateful group, the SPLC, who has this supposed hate list that looks more like a hit list, right?
00:09:55.000 And then their AI is describing conservatives like me the way that we've seen it describe me and the way that it has framed me as a criminal, you know?
00:10:03.000 And so the end result is, what do you think they want to happen?
00:10:06.000 We could all end up victims the way Charlie was.
00:10:11.000 Listen, there's no way around it when it comes to healthcare.
00:10:14.000 People are really frustrated with how much it costs and how to pay for it.
00:10:19.000 The usual ways we've been doing this have only gotten more expensive, more complicated, and honestly, just aggravating.
00:10:24.000 And that's why MetaShare is such a welcome relief.
00:10:27.000 It's called healthcare sharing.
00:10:29.000 It's different and it really works.
00:10:31.000 More than a million Americans are now doing this.
00:10:33.000 And MetaShare has been a great option for more than 30 years.
00:10:37.000 So really, you could save thousands of dollars a year on your healthcare and be happy.
00:10:41.000 Imagine that.
00:10:42.000 For many families, joining MetaShare means saving about 500 bucks a month, which is a game changer for a lot of people.
00:10:50.000 If you've heard about it and you want to know more, there are two easy options.
00:10:53.000 Go to metashare.com, M-E-D-I share.com slash Kirk.
00:10:59.000 That's metashare.com/slash Kirk, or just grab your phone and send a text.
00:11:03.000 You'll get the info, which could really help you and your family out.
00:11:06.000 Save money, get great healthcare.
00:11:07.000 Text the word Kirk, K-I-R-K to 70246.
00:11:11.000 That's Kirk to 70246 to get the facts.
00:11:14.000 That's Kirk to 70246.
00:11:20.000 What you're getting to is so critically important.
00:11:23.000 We talked about this actually.
00:11:24.000 You know, Jack was just profiled in the Atlantic this morning as, you know, MAGA's top influencer or something to that effect.
00:11:33.000 And we just got streamed with emails at freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:11:36.000 Everybody's worried about Jack.
00:11:37.000 I mean, we could put Jack back up.
00:11:38.000 Thank you.
00:11:39.000 Everybody's worried about Jack that this is putting a target on his back.
00:11:42.000 I mean, I think posts, what happened with Charlie, everybody's terrified about that.
00:11:47.000 And, you know, rightfully so, but this is a new iteration in this battle for keeping our people safe and our activists safe like you, Robbie.
00:11:57.000 And I totally agree that this is if somebody just, some left-wing lunatic on some Discord chat started quoting Gemini, or what did you call it?
00:12:05.000 Gamma, Gemma, Gemma, like if they start quoting this as an authoritative source, who knows who that would radicalize?
00:12:13.000 Not to mention the defamation and the character assassination that this puts you in, but at 1000% puts a target on your back.
00:12:21.000 And, you know, I think our audience would love to hear how you feel about that.
00:12:25.000 Yeah, I mean, the FBI right now is investigating multiple death threats against me.
00:12:30.000 And a man was arrested in this last year for wanting to kill me.
00:12:33.000 And so natural question: did any of them read about me through Google AI platforms?
00:12:39.000 We don't know, you know, but I would like to know.
00:12:41.000 I think that, you know, it's not a leap to say somebody could be radicalized by this and try to kill somebody.
00:12:47.000 You know, beyond me, though, like this hasn't happened yet to the degree that I think it sadly will one day.
00:12:55.000 But some of our families are in danger too, right?
00:12:58.000 Like some lunatic could make a mistake and think they're coming after one of us and we're actually not there and they actually attack our children or our wives.
00:13:08.000 And I'm, you know, frankly dreading that day coming.
00:13:12.000 I just feel like that is the next thing that's going to happen in this left-wing terror because I know the types of threats that you guys and myself and our friends are getting.
00:13:24.000 And they're increasing, they're escalating.
00:13:26.000 And the tone is essentially nothing's off limits, right?
00:13:29.000 We're not the only targets.
00:13:31.000 And that's something that makes it very hard to sleep at night, you know.
00:13:34.000 And I think that these companies like Google are being grossly negligent in what they've done by essentially backing up the most radical lies about us.
00:13:44.000 Well said, Robbie.
00:13:45.000 And I think Jack and I share your concerns.
00:13:48.000 Our audience is, You know, we take steps to protect the post-o household.
00:13:52.000 And if people want to find out just how big of supporters of the Second Amendment we are, they're welcome to find it.
00:13:59.000 Same here.
00:14:00.000 And I think that's something that's critically important.
00:14:01.000 I've been encouraging a lot of our friends to do the same thing.
00:14:03.000 Like, you've got to be trained.
00:14:05.000 Your spouse has got to be trained.
00:14:06.000 My kids are trained, you know, like, God forbid, but they are.
00:14:09.000 They're trained on how to handle a firearm competently because, God forbid, that moment comes, some crazy person, which has happened before, they've shown up in our house.
00:14:18.000 You know, I want my kids to be able to defend themselves, you know?
00:14:21.000 So that's the crazy thing.
00:14:23.000 We shouldn't have to live like this.
00:14:25.000 You know, I saw this tweet recently, like, only we have to live like this.
00:14:29.000 And I don't want my enemies to live like this.
00:14:31.000 You know, I wouldn't wish it on their children or their spouses.
00:14:34.000 And it's disgusting that that is the case, but that's that's where we are.
00:14:38.000 You know, another thing I'd throw out about this Google story, and this is sort of breaking here, is I am in contact with the House Judiciary Committee.
00:14:45.000 And I think you're going to see a lot more on that angle very soon.
00:14:49.000 Oh, wow.
00:14:50.000 Wow, interesting.
00:14:51.000 Very good.
00:14:52.000 So, yeah, it reminds everything we're talking about here, though, by the way, guys, reminds me.
00:14:56.000 We had Mike Cernovich on the show, and you know, after this no king stuff, and he had that great tweet where he was like, Listen, you all get to have your protests, and you're not worried about snipers on some buildings, you're not worried about somebody coming up and assaulting you because, you know, we don't do that sort of thing on our side.
00:15:14.000 We're actually the safer side.
00:15:16.000 We believe in law and order, open debate, open dialogue.
00:15:19.000 Meanwhile, you guys are openly mocking the death of Charlie.
00:15:24.000 You're antagonizing conservatives with hand gestures to the neck.
00:15:29.000 We have Jolanda Jones on CNN last night on Aaron Burnett.
00:15:33.000 She's running for Congress saying that we're not going to punch you back in the face.
00:15:36.000 We're going to come at your neck across your neck. 1.00
00:15:38.000 We've got a student at ASU that says, watch your necks.
00:15:42.000 I mean, this is what this is the modern left and the rise of left-wing violence and a political assassination culture that I think was sparked with Luigi Maggioni as the inciting incident, but obviously that had been building behind the scenes for a long time.
00:15:58.000 This is the core political and cultural issue of our current epoch.
00:16:03.000 And I hate that.
00:16:05.000 And we need to get to the bottom of it.
00:16:07.000 And first things first, these Democrats have to be held accountable for stoking it and on their tech platforms like Google AI.
00:16:15.000 I just want to play this clip because we haven't gotten to it yet.
00:16:17.000 This is Jolanda Jones.
00:16:19.000 She's running for Congress in Texas, 277. 0.99
00:16:24.000 I'm from the hood, okay?
00:16:25.000 So if you hit me in my face, I'm not going to punch you back in your face.
00:16:29.000 I'm going to go across your neck. 1.00
00:16:30.000 We need to wipe out every Republican in New York and California and Illinois.
00:16:35.000 So no one can make me feel bad about fighting.
00:16:39.000 Oh, okay.
00:16:40.000 I'm from the hood, says Jolanda.
00:16:42.000 And then it's almost like, I don't know, she knew exactly what she was doing because this seems to be a trend here, guys.
00:16:48.000 Throw up B-roll. 0.98
00:16:49.000 This is Lucy Martinez, who's still not been fired from her job at an elementary school.
00:16:54.000 64, please.
00:16:56.000 This is Lucy Martinez that was caught at the No Kings rally doing a gunshot gesture to her neck.
00:17:03.000 Oh, and then, oh, yeah, there's more.
00:17:05.000 Let's play Cut 226.
00:17:08.000 This is at ASU, some pink-haired young lady, 226. 0.84
00:17:13.000 Hey, Nazis, can you set up somewhere where I can avoid you easily? 0.99
00:17:16.000 Yeah, thank you.
00:17:17.000 Have a great day.
00:17:19.000 Watch your neck.
00:17:20.000 Thanks.
00:17:22.000 Watch your necks.
00:17:23.000 I mean, this is just a smattering, guys, of all of the things that we've seen at these no-kings. 1.00
00:17:28.000 Go ahead.
00:17:28.000 Go ahead, Jack.
00:17:29.000 One, one piece that I've been trying to work hard to get out there, and I mentioned this on Piers Morgan the other day as well.
00:17:35.000 And it didn't go quite as viral as some of the other moments from that interview.
00:17:40.000 But the phrase no kings itself is a phrase that derives from the French Revolution.
00:17:48.000 No kings, no lords is specifically derives from the French Revolution.
00:17:53.000 So the original No Kings protests are also known as the reign of terror and included, of course, the ubiquitous guillotine by Maximilian Robespierre, where they were beheading public officials in the streets of Paris.
00:18:09.000 So when you have a phrase like this, no kings, and then Antifa for years has used no kings, no masters.
00:18:15.000 So they will say no kings, no masters, as they launch these attacks on streets, on public conservatives, things like that, on churches, burning churches.
00:18:23.000 So no kings, no lords.
00:18:25.000 That was one of the original slogans of the Jacobins of the French Revolution, the most violent group.
00:18:29.000 Then no kings, no masters gets brought up by that Antifa groups over the years and over the past few decades.
00:18:36.000 And now we see the mass mainstreaming of this violent rhetoric, no kings, in the no kings protests.
00:18:43.000 And so, this is a phrase, again, just like Bella Chow, just like Hey Fascist Catch, like all these other Antifa symbols and Antifa symbology that if you've been researching these groups, you're actually very familiar with, but it's now being mainstreamed on a much bigger level that people aren't familiar with.
00:19:01.000 And because the media doesn't do any actual research, they don't realize the references that they're making.
00:19:05.000 Actually, in the clip you just showed, they mentioned 1930s Germany, 1930s Germany, the Weimar Republic, was the first iteration of Antifa.
00:19:14.000 So they know exactly what they're referencing.
00:19:17.000 No kings, they know where that comes from.
00:19:19.000 It means beheadings.
00:19:20.000 It is violence, and it has always been violence upon which this rests upon.
00:19:25.000 And Jack and Robbie, I want to throw to you, Robbie, next, just because you're the victim of this incredible defamation, this slander campaign from an AI.
00:19:34.000 But, you know, what you're just talking about, Jack, it reminds me of those, we would mock it during the, I think in 2024, 2023, where, you know, the SPLC and the ADL had these long, elaborate databases of all the numbers that were used by white supremacists.
00:19:49.000 And it was like, there was basically like three numbers left.
00:19:53.000 Every single number was somehow coded in white supremacist lore.
00:19:57.000 And we were using it secretly.
00:20:01.000 Yeah.
00:20:01.000 But there is such a lack of just interest by the media to document some of these far-left code codings that you're seeing at these at these rallys.
00:20:13.000 Was it complicit?
00:20:15.000 Yeah, it could have been complicity.
00:20:16.000 But here, Robbie, the floor is yours, my friend.
00:20:19.000 A minute and a half left in this segment.
00:20:22.000 Let's say a minute.
00:20:23.000 You know, sum up what you're going through and what you plan to do next.
00:20:27.000 Yeah, in the words of the great posto, we watched them kill our friend and we watched them celebrate it.
00:20:34.000 And so that's constantly, I think, in a lot of our minds.
00:20:38.000 Like when we wake up and go through our day, we think about what they did to Charlie and how it wasn't just one bullet.
00:20:44.000 It was a whole campaign that led up to that, right?
00:20:48.000 And it can be done many different ways.
00:20:51.000 What we're seeing here with Google is another form of harassment, defamation, and intimidation and dehumanization that leads to violence.
00:21:01.000 It encourages violence.
00:21:03.000 It's incredibly dangerous.
00:21:04.000 So I'm suing Google, not just for me, but to make this stop, to fix the bias in AI in companies like Google and to hold them accountable for what they've done.
00:21:14.000 Because we don't want to wait for there to be another Charlie type of event.
00:21:19.000 But we are on a path right now where there is going to be.
00:21:23.000 And so it's going to take concerted effort and action from all of us.
00:21:26.000 Call on your elected representatives, do something about this.
00:21:29.000 You know, I think this should be one of the great issues of our time: ensuring that AI cannot harm humans.
00:21:34.000 That should be a first principle of AI.
00:21:36.000 It cannot harm humans in any way.
00:21:38.000 Ask your representatives to get on it.
00:21:40.000 Robbie Starbuck, filmmaker and activist, suing Google.
00:21:40.000 Absolutely.
00:21:43.000 Godspeed to you, my friend.
00:21:46.000 This is the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:21:48.000 We are all about saving babies with pre-born.
00:21:52.000 There are 24,836 kindergartners starting school this month who would not be alive if it hadn't been for what Pre-Born did in 2019.
00:22:03.000 That's how many babies were saved that year because of gifts of ultrasounds from people just like you in this audience.
00:22:11.000 When a woman considering abortion sees her baby on that ultrasound and hears that baby's heartbeat, it doubles.
00:22:18.000 Let me repeat.
00:22:19.000 It doubles the chance that she will choose life.
00:22:22.000 $140 gives five mothers a free ultrasound and saves babies.
00:22:27.000 $280 can save 10 babies, and just $28 a month can save a baby a month for less than a dollar a day.
00:22:36.000 A $15,000 gift will provide an ultrasound machine that will save babies' lives for years and years to come.
00:22:42.000 Charlie and Erica love Pre-Born.
00:22:45.000 Charlie loved it so much.
00:22:46.000 He believed in it so much.
00:22:47.000 He was a donor.
00:22:48.000 Whether you want to save one baby or five or hundreds, it's just a phone call or a clickaway.
00:22:52.000 Join me now, saving babies.
00:22:54.000 Call 833-850-2229 or click on the Pre-Born banner at CharlieKirk.com today.
00:23:02.000 The great Megan Basham from the New York Times best-selling book, They Couldn't Keep Her Off, Shepherds for Sale.
00:23:15.000 She's also a host on Daily Wire, The Daily, I believe.
00:23:18.000 Or hold on, hold on.
00:23:20.000 Culture Reporter.
00:23:21.000 What am I talking about?
00:23:22.000 You're the host, right?
00:23:22.000 I don't know.
00:23:24.000 Morning Wire.
00:23:25.000 I just blanked.
00:23:26.000 I apologize.
00:23:27.000 But you're the competition.
00:23:30.000 I know.
00:23:30.000 It's really true.
00:23:31.000 So, Megan, You had this really, I think, just it, you know, sometimes you see somebody, they, they crystallize something for you in a moment, in a tweet, in a thought.
00:23:43.000 And this has been something that's really been bothering me, actually.
00:23:47.000 And I didn't have words for it.
00:23:49.000 But, you know, obviously when Charlie was murdered, there was this amazing outpouring of support and love, and rightly so.
00:23:57.000 And so, like, I'm not here to hold people.
00:24:00.000 Like, I'm not trying to be a jerk.
00:24:02.000 I don't want to be like, well, you didn't, you, you weren't 100% on board before.
00:24:06.000 And so now you can't say anything nice.
00:24:07.000 No, that's not what I'm saying.
00:24:09.000 I actually think that's a good thing.
00:24:10.000 Like, I want you to.
00:24:11.000 Megan's not on board.
00:24:12.000 Get her off the show.
00:24:13.000 This is a debate, Megan.
00:24:13.000 Yes.
00:24:14.000 We're about to hold on to this.
00:24:15.000 I was always on board right now.
00:24:18.000 But you said this.
00:24:19.000 Go ahead and throw this up.
00:24:20.000 292.
00:24:21.000 Charlie Kirk to young men.
00:24:22.000 You need to go to a Bible study instead of a bar.
00:24:25.000 And yet our evangelical leadership class kept him at arm's distance because he was an outspoken conservative and Trump supporter.
00:24:32.000 All caps.
00:24:33.000 That's what the problem is.
00:24:36.000 And I just thought that was so well put and a point well made, Megan, because like, yes, everybody could, you know, especially in evangelical circles.
00:24:46.000 We're not talking about Antifa here or the far left wackos.
00:24:49.000 Of course, they said this is terrible.
00:24:50.000 We condemn this.
00:24:51.000 This is how tragic and our heart goes out and all this stuff.
00:24:54.000 But you're right that in life, I mean, by the way, our TPSA faith chapters, our network of churches has doubled.
00:25:02.000 So this is a mixed bag.
00:25:04.000 There's good, there's good stories here, but there is in Big Eva, as we call it.
00:25:08.000 I was meeting with a pastor yesterday that said, Big Eva is under God's judgment, in his opinion.
00:25:14.000 Okay, you can take that.
00:25:16.000 Okay, so maybe start there.
00:25:18.000 And what is the pro what is the issue here that is holding Big Eva back, which is getting in their way from embracing wholeheartedly somebody like Charlie?
00:25:28.000 Yeah, I'm so glad that you invited me on to talk about this, Andrew, because it drives me nuts.
00:25:32.000 And if you follow me on X, you probably have picked up how much it drives me nuts that there is this double standard about embracing somebody who is doing evangelism, who is speaking in the Christian space, but who is politically connected.
00:25:48.000 Because you will have an organization like the Gospel Coalition.
00:25:51.000 It's a media outlet.
00:25:53.000 They also have their Keller Center for Cultural Engagement and their fellows there.
00:25:58.000 It's extremely well known.
00:26:00.000 And what they do is they will bring on people like Michael Ware, who is a Democratic operative who worked in the Obama administration.
00:26:09.000 And they will put him forward as somebody who is doing faith and politics combined very well.
00:26:15.000 They will also have someone like Justin Gibbony of the AND campaign, someone who our friend Alibeth Stuckey has covered a lot, who is a Democratic activist, even as he kind of tours to these allegedly conservative churches and conferences.
00:26:30.000 So they're happy to welcome him, but they were never happy to welcome Charlie.
00:26:34.000 You never saw Charlie spoken well of on the gospel coalition.
00:26:38.000 You never saw him being invited to their conferences.
00:26:42.000 And I don't know if you have this.
00:26:44.000 I sent this over to you, but this was the attitude that they took with Charlie.
00:26:48.000 In 2021, one of their primary writers and vice president over at the conservative Christian publisher Crossway said something like, you know, you don't have to give Charlie Kirk more views, right?
00:27:03.000 That perfectly encapsulates sort of the attitude that they took towards Charlie.
00:27:08.000 You did not see him getting invited to chapels to speak at, say, Wheaton or Biola or even Grove City or any of these colleges that are supposed to be conservative Christian colleges, Orthodox colleges.
00:27:22.000 So they were happy to have the Democratic operatives on, but they were not happy to have Charlie on.
00:27:28.000 And then even further, you know, when Charlie was assassinated, when he was martyred, and I want to use that word very specifically, they were put in an awkward position because suddenly people who hadn't been paying attention that closely saw an outpouring of love for the Lord, a strong, bold Christian witness.
00:27:50.000 And I think that served as a rebuke to the sort of squishy faith that has been embraced and the kind of compromises that we've seen in big evangelicalism.
00:28:01.000 So suddenly there was this stark contrast to what they had been doing.
00:28:07.000 And that put them, I think, in a difficult position.
00:28:09.000 So you did see some well wishes after that.
00:28:12.000 But just as quickly as you saw the well wishes and you saw the laments and saying, we're very sorry that this happened, they were very careful not to praise his politics.
00:28:21.000 And after that, you started to even see, I mean, maybe it took maybe a week, two weeks before the heavily critical article started to come out.
00:28:29.000 Then Christianity Today ran, you know, something on, well, the black voices in our churches are not so happy that we are lamenting Charlie Kirk's death.
00:28:40.000 And by the way, I also want to add Christianity today to those who were very dismissive of Charlie before his death.
00:28:46.000 Their editor-in-chief, Russell Moore, on his podcast, would do things.
00:28:50.000 He wouldn't name TPUSA, but he would talk about these political campus movements that are dividing the faith.
00:28:57.000 And it was obviously a reference to Charlie and TPUSA.
00:29:01.000 So when Charlie was assassinated and people saw so clearly what his record was on evangelizing, on getting out to college campuses and speaking to young people, young men in particular, in the way that I quoted in that tweet, because he did say that.
00:29:16.000 He said, You young men, stop going to the bar, start going to Bible studies, you know, just putting it plainly, really the heir to Billy Graham in a very strong way.
00:29:25.000 So when that happened, that put them in an awkward position.
00:29:28.000 And then you started to see things like these very well-known conservative Christian conference speakers starting to criticize Charlie and starting to say, Hey, wait a minute, let's not be too eager to look to his model, even as we're seeing, you know, all of these people coming to the faith on the basis of what they saw at the memorial and speaking that he did and all of these clips that are now circulating.
00:29:56.000 So, one example of that is Pastor Mike Kelsey, who is a co-pastor of McLean Bible Church in Washington, D.C. It is supposed to be a conservative Orthodox church, and yet here is what he said right after Charlie Kirk's death.
00:30:13.000 If you can play the Mike Kelsey clip, we have the clip. 0.87
00:30:15.000 Play cut 332.
00:30:18.000 In fact, in some cases, I was shocked that so many professing Christians were rationalizing things that were so demeaning and unchrist-like, and not just rationalizing things he said, but idolizing him as the prototype for a new generation of Christians. 0.92
00:30:32.000 And here's my point in all of that: this is not just Charlie Kirk.
00:30:37.000 This is all of us.
00:30:39.000 Every single one of us is tempted to talk to or about people in ways that not only dishonor them, but the God who created them in his image.
00:30:52.000 So I just want to say one thing here, really quick.
00:30:55.000 Yeah, I mean, so Charlie knew that his calling from the Lord was very specific.
00:31:00.000 He was a prophet.
00:31:02.000 And what do they do to prophets?
00:31:03.000 They kill prophets.
00:31:04.000 Why?
00:31:05.000 Because they speak the truth boldly and clearly and without reservation, and the people hate it.
00:31:12.000 And what he said this multiple times, said it to me, he said it on podcasts.
00:31:16.000 He was put on this planet to confront evil and to proclaim the truth.
00:31:21.000 And what this tells me is that there is evil, that it lies, whatever, that are being clung to within the halls of the church, within the four walls of the church.
00:31:30.000 Big Eva are clinging to lies. 1.00
00:31:33.000 And I just, when I hear him speak like that, I'm just thinking, lie, lie, lie, cultural compromise, compromise, zero courage.
00:31:41.000 And it's extraordinarily frustrating.
00:31:44.000 But I digress.
00:31:45.000 Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:31:46.000 And I actually, I want to play one more clip just to set the table for this, and then I'll explain why they're doing this.
00:31:51.000 So, you know, the other one is from Jackie Hill Perry.
00:31:54.000 And if you're not familiar with her, again, she is a Christian author and she has done some good things.
00:31:59.000 You know, Gay Girl, Good God.
00:32:01.000 That was a really good book.
00:32:02.000 And I like her in some respects.
00:32:04.000 But she has been widely welcomed despite having some progressive ideas onto all of these allegedly Christian conservative platforms.
00:32:12.000 She is welcome to speak at seminary.
00:32:14.000 She is welcome to speak at Christian college chapels.
00:32:18.000 So let's hear what she said after Charlie was assassinated.
00:32:21.000 This is cut 330.
00:32:22.000 Let's go ahead and throw it up.
00:32:23.000 Why don't you think he's a martyr?
00:32:25.000 And it's like because I heard what he said.
00:32:29.000 Yeah.
00:32:30.000 And so it's not that I don't appreciate his stances on abortion, on sexuality, on marriage, but it's also I hear other things alongside that that don't give martyr.
00:32:43.000 Yeah, right.
00:32:45.000 So I'm going to say unequivocally, Charlie was a martyr.
00:32:47.000 Charlie was assassinated for his Christian beliefs.
00:32:50.000 That's a martyr.
00:32:51.000 We would not say that John the Baptist was not a martyr because, well, technically, he was murdered because he called out King Herod for his incestuous marriage to his niece.
00:33:03.000 You know, we don't do that.
00:33:05.000 We recognize that when you are murdered for your Christian beliefs, you are a legitimate martyr and Charlie was. 0.93
00:33:11.000 And so what we are not seeing from all of these large evangelical outlets and seminaries and schools is we're not seeing any correction or rebuke for this kind of language.
00:33:24.000 And so even as they have somewhat come out after the fact and now said, well, okay, you know, Charlie had some good things that he did.
00:33:31.000 He did sort of draw some young men to faith.
00:33:34.000 They're in an awkward position because what Charlie's example did is it pointed out how they have failed to do that.
00:33:41.000 They have failed to speak to the young men.
00:33:43.000 They have failed to pick up that mantle of Billy Graham and evangelize the next generation.
00:33:49.000 And, you know, there's a very specific thing here that puts them in this awkward position, and it's something called the third way.
00:33:56.000 And if you're not familiar with that, it's a method of evangelizing that says because we want to save some people in the church and bring them to church, we want to be very careful not to align politically with either the left or right.
00:34:12.000 We have to say that, you know, Jesus wasn't a Democrat or a Republican as if the two sides are morally equal, as if there's a symmetry between them.
00:34:23.000 And they'll do tricky things like say, oh, well, you know, they're here on immigration and the right is here on abortion.
00:34:29.000 And both of those are pro-life issues, even though one is, you know, a legitimately biblically debatable issue and the other one is murder and not debatable.
00:34:37.000 So, you know, I think that what we're seeing now is that they kept Charlie at arm's length because he showed a different way that wasn't the third way.
00:34:44.000 It was a bold Christian witness that said, these are my political priorities and these are my political priorities because I follow Christ.
00:34:52.000 What it makes me think of is fear God, not man.
00:34:55.000 And these churches, Big Eva, guess who they fear?
00:34:57.000 They fear man.
00:34:58.000 It's very clear.
00:35:01.000 This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment officer and founding partner of YReFi.
00:35:06.000 It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us.
00:35:11.000 His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come.
00:35:17.000 Now, here Charlie, in his own words, tell you about WhyReFi.
00:35:21.000 I'm going to tell you guys about whyrefi.com.
00:35:23.000 That is why FY.com.
00:35:25.000 WhyReFi is incredible.
00:35:27.000 Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion.
00:35:30.000 WhyReFi is refinancing distress or defaulted private student loans?
00:35:34.000 You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget.
00:35:38.000 Go to yrefi.com.
00:35:39.000 That is whyrefi.com.
00:35:41.000 Do you have a co-borrower?
00:35:42.000 WhyReFi can get them released from the loan?
00:35:45.000 You're going to skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty.
00:35:47.000 It may not be available in all 50 states.
00:35:49.000 Go to yrefi.com.
00:35:51.000 That is why FY.com.
00:35:53.000 Let's face it, if you have distress or defaulted student loans, it can be overwhelming.
00:35:57.000 Because of private student loan debt, so many people feel stuck.
00:36:00.000 Go to whyrefi.com.
00:36:02.000 That is why.com.
00:36:05.000 Private student loan debt relief, yrefi.com.
00:36:10.000 The young kids, they don't want you to kind of sanitize all this stuff for them.
00:36:14.000 They will come in flocks for you to say the blunt truth that you think is going to offend them.
00:36:19.000 Yes, you need Jesus, but do you know why?
00:36:22.000 You see, the reason why it's not yet being translated into revival is that they say, of course, Jesus is your savior, but we're not connecting the dots.
00:36:30.000 How do you know you need a savior if you don't know what you're saved from?
00:36:33.000 And you only know what you're saved from if you talk about sin.
00:36:36.000 So we focus everything on the fact that someone's going to save you from drowning, yet we don't tell a generation that they're drowning.
00:36:42.000 It's the most suicidal generation in history, the most drug-addicted generation in history, the most porn addicted generation in history, but objectively the most miserable generation in history.
00:36:52.000 And yet we say, you're just perfect the way you are.
00:36:55.000 They don't feel perfect the way they are.
00:36:58.000 They're telling you that everything is not okay.
00:37:00.000 And the message that Christianity gives you is, well, he gets you or whatever that commercial is. 0.86
00:37:05.000 No, that's actually not how you win young people over.
00:37:07.000 You win them over being like, you know what?
00:37:09.000 You know why you're miserable?
00:37:10.000 Because you're not following God's laws and commands.
00:37:13.000 That was a complete condemnation of Big Eva. 0.54
00:37:18.000 And they're like, go along to get along.
00:37:20.000 Everything has to come out squeaky, clean.
00:37:22.000 You have to use clean language.
00:37:23.000 And Charlie's up there, brass knuckles, hitting the truth right square in the eyes and saying, this is the truth.
00:37:29.000 Repent and be saved.
00:37:30.000 You are drowning as a generation. 0.98
00:37:32.000 You are miserable.
00:37:33.000 And Jack, I think that this is why so many young people are flocking to the Catholic Church.
00:37:39.000 You know, I'm a cradle Catholic.
00:37:41.000 I got saved in the evangelical Protestant movement.
00:37:43.000 I love both.
00:37:44.000 I'm not picking a team here.
00:37:46.000 I'm just saying I love both.
00:37:48.000 Jack, talk about that, maybe about what you're seeing in the Catholic Church and why this sort of like traditional presentation of the gospel of Jesus Christ is working right now.
00:37:58.000 Yeah, no, it's certainly something that we see in the Catholic Church, but a lot of people have to understand.
00:38:03.000 They say, well, what about Pope Leo?
00:38:04.000 Like, he's going kind of woke on a few things the same way Francis was.
00:38:08.000 And something actually Charlie and I even talked about when I was on this show from the conclave when Pope Leo came in.
00:38:14.000 And Charlie was the first person I spoke to about that.
00:38:16.000 What you really see going on on the Catholic side right now is the Tradcath movement and the Tradcath movement, which apparently was so radical that the FBI, under the auspices of Merrick Garland and Chris Ray, launched an investigation into us because I guess we were playing the rosary a little bit too hard and a little bit too Latin-y.
00:38:38.000 But it's the Latin Mass that's really attracting a lot of people because the Latin Mass is willing to stand up and most practitioners of Latin Mass or what they call it, like TLM, the traditional Atlanta Mass, that it's not woke.
00:38:53.000 You won't find those female Eucharistic ministers. 1.00
00:38:57.000 You won't see altar girls, right? 0.82
00:38:59.000 It's just full-on, traditional, unchanging, unchanging biblical doctrine, unchanging truth, and unchanging homilies where they guys will get up there and say, We live in a sinful time and you need to repent of your sinful ways.
00:39:15.000 And I think people are just thirsty for that.
00:39:17.000 They want something that's righteous and true, not something that is lukewarm, because as we know, that which is lukewarm gets spit out.
00:39:24.000 I think that's a great way to put it.
00:39:25.000 And Megan, I want to get your reaction to that clip you saw of Charlie.
00:39:29.000 I mean, it was just such a confrontation to the skinny jeans, TED taught Christianity, and the clean language, and never going to offend the Starbucks Cup.
00:39:38.000 And I feel like if there was the spirit of the age, like in the church, at least, that is just so it.
00:39:46.000 And he's like, you're drowning.
00:39:47.000 They're telling you they're not okay, but you just want to give them the sanitized gospel. 0.60
00:39:51.000 And what really strikes me there is that, you know, it was such powerful preaching.
00:39:51.000 Yeah.
00:39:56.000 And that was absolutely preaching right there.
00:39:58.000 But if you went to some of these organizations and asked them, well, why don't you include Charlie in some of your events?
00:40:03.000 Why don't you invite him?
00:40:04.000 I mean, he's the most popular and persuasive speaker on conservative campuses and all campuses, really, bringing a gospel message.
00:40:14.000 Why would you not invite him and include him?
00:40:16.000 And what they would tell you is that third way thing, which is, well, we don't want to be political.
00:40:20.000 We don't want to throw up a political obstacle to people coming to Christ.
00:40:24.000 And yet, one, that wasn't true because they would have left-wing quote-unquote Christians.
00:40:29.000 I question the faith of some of those people, but they would have people who worked in the Obama administration.
00:40:34.000 They would have people who were Democratic activists coming and being a part of their organization.
00:40:38.000 So that wasn't true.
00:40:40.000 And then the other thing was, I think, that Charlie, and I didn't have time to grab a clip of this, but it's circulating out there on social media.
00:40:47.000 He wasn't afraid to call out their sins, the big evangelical machine sins. 1.00
00:40:52.000 And I think that is another reason that they didn't want him because who knows what he might say.
00:40:57.000 You know, he kind of boldly called out Biola, which is a well-known evangelical institution school.
00:41:04.000 He said, look, Biola is lost.
00:41:06.000 They have brought in transgender ideology. 0.99
00:41:08.000 They are teaching queer theory. 0.71
00:41:10.000 And for that reason, I cannot recommend their school.
00:41:13.000 Now, that is not how the associational games are played in big evangelicalism.
00:41:19.000 So Charlie didn't play the game.
00:41:21.000 And so, you know, they wouldn't invite him for that reason, even though he was more effective at bringing young people to Christ than anyone else in our generation.
00:41:30.000 And, you know, I've seen it in my own life just this week.
00:41:32.000 My husband has a young trainer, you know, buff-built, 20-something, tatted up.
00:41:38.000 And he came to us a couple of weeks ago after Charlie's death and just said, Hey, can I come to church with you?
00:41:43.000 I am feeling really affected by all this, and you've been inviting me, and I want to come.
00:41:48.000 I love that.
00:41:48.000 You know, and the same pastor was telling me that he thinks that the revival is going to bypass a lot of the church pews, that it's going to like it's going to completely bypass them because these are testing moments in our culture.
00:42:01.000 These are testing moments, and you either pass the test or you fail it.
00:42:05.000 And the gospel will march forward.
00:42:07.000 And the revival that Charlie's martyrdom has sparked will march forward.
00:42:12.000 And the question is, do you want to be a part of it or not?
00:42:14.000 Megan Basham, this was excellent.
00:42:16.000 I so enjoyed this, and it just was very cathartic for me.
00:42:19.000 And we even worked with some Catholic stuff in there for you, Jack.
00:42:22.000 Thanks so much.