The Charlie Kirk Show - The Collapse of Libertarianism? + Trump's Constitution Comment Explained with Andrew Koppelman

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today the Charlie Kirk show.

00:00:01.000 Email me your thoughts as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:04.000 Support the Charlie Kirk Show at charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:08.000 A professor joins our program to talk about libertarianism.

00:00:11.000 He says something about Trump that I don't appreciate.

00:00:14.000 I just don't agree with.

00:00:15.000 I appreciate it's too strong.

00:00:16.000 Don't agree with.

00:00:16.000 I don't push back because I didn't find that our time together would be as fruitful with that, but I could talk about that in a future episode.

00:00:22.000 Maybe I didn't ask me anything, so just keep that in mind.

00:00:25.000 And then I talk about the Georgia runoff.

00:00:27.000 And finally, does Donald Trump want to obliterate the Constitution?

00:00:31.000 Email me your thoughts as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:33.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:34.000 Here we go.

00:00:35.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:37.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:39.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:43.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:46.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:47.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:48.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:55.000 Turning point USA.

00:00:56.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:05.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:17.000 One of the more fascinating aspects of my 10 years, almost 11 years of doing this, is seeing how certain ideas, books, thinkers have grown in popularity and also collapsed in popularity, mostly in the conservative movement.

00:01:37.000 When I got started in 2012, 2013, 2014 in particular, the conservative movement, especially the young conservative movement, was very libertarian.

00:01:48.000 The libertarian think tanks, libertarian organizations, almost all conservative Republican literature was laced with hyper-libertarianism.

00:01:57.000 And I'm not saying that critically.

00:01:58.000 I mean, I read Murray Rothbard, Ludovic Mises, F.A. Hayek, Ayn Rand, became steeped in libertarianism, Milton Friedman, without really ever a proper similar journey until recently into Russell Kirk and Edmund Burke.

00:02:14.000 And I've obviously become more conservative and less libertarian on almost all topics, but not all, most topics, not all topics in the last couple of years.

00:02:22.000 But libertarianism definitely had a moment in 12, 13, and 14.

00:02:27.000 It felt like it was a rising tide.

00:02:30.000 And then it's less popular than ever before in the conservative movement outside of a couple of issues like guns and I would say maybe civil liberties and privacy.

00:02:41.000 But to help us unpack this, super excited for this conversation because I've actually lived part of this is Andrew Koppelman, award-winning John Paul Stevens Professor of Law at Northwestern University and author of several other books as well.

00:02:57.000 And the name of the book is Burning Down the House.

00:03:01.000 And Professor Koppelman joins us now.

00:03:03.000 Professor, welcome to the program.

00:03:05.000 Thank you for having me.

00:03:06.000 So, Professor, let's get our terms straight.

00:03:10.000 What do you mean by libertarianism?

00:03:11.000 You say how libertarian philosophy was corrupted by delusion and greed.

00:03:16.000 I actually tend to agree with that largely.

00:03:19.000 How do you define libertarian philosophy?

00:03:21.000 Libertarianism broadly understood as the idea that people will be freer, people will have more control over their lives if we minimize government.

00:03:31.000 That small government is the path to giving us control over our own lives.

00:03:36.000 That's the basic idea that's shared by multiple flavors of libertarianism.

00:03:42.000 I agree.

00:03:42.000 I think that's what you just summarized it perfectly, and that's terrific.

00:03:46.000 So therefore, you say it was corrupted by delusion and greed.

00:03:50.000 You start in at least the summary.

00:03:51.000 I haven't read the book yet.

00:03:52.000 I look forward to, but you start in some of the summaries as saying that Hayek was one of kind of the modern day, let's just say 1940s, 1950s, you know, composed road to serfdom.

00:04:03.000 But then you say his philosophy was corrupted by other thinkers.

00:04:06.000 First, tell us about F.A. Hayek.

00:04:08.000 Tell us about his warnings against totalitarianism via Road to Serfdom, and then we'll go from there.

00:04:14.000 So Road to Serfdom is a book that Hayek writes in 1944 when he is a professor at the London School of Economics.

00:04:21.000 He was born in Austria, but he was working in London, and he was writing against the program of the British Labour Party, which was frankly advocating socialism.

00:04:31.000 They wanted government control of the means of production.

00:04:34.000 They wanted central economic planning.

00:04:36.000 And at the time, everybody, you know, intellectuals generally thought that central economic planning was the way to go.

00:04:42.000 The world's most admired economic managers were Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler, because they were the ones who turned their economies around while Britain and France and the United States were still in depression with high unemployment.

00:04:54.000 And Hayek wanted to argue in the book that central economic planning was necessarily both wasteful and tyrannical.

00:05:02.000 It would exercise totalitarian control over people's lives and it wouldn't even work.

00:05:08.000 It wouldn't make people more prosperous because economies have way too much information, more information than any central planner can know.

00:05:17.000 And the only way to assimilate all of that information is a price system.

00:05:24.000 I appreciate F.A. Hayek's contribution in that sense, because fighting up against the alleged celebratory praise of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin's economic planning, good for him.

00:05:34.000 And I'm glad he did that.

00:05:35.000 However, then you argue in the book, okay, so Hayek lays this foundation.

00:05:39.000 And then there's some other people that come onto the stage, two in particular that caught my eye that you argue, Ayn Rand and Murray Rothbard.

00:05:47.000 Let's start with Ayn Rand.

00:05:49.000 I have read a fair amount of her literature, obviously Atlas Shrugged, Fountainhead, Anthem, you know, We the Living, but she brought a different take on it.

00:05:58.000 In my personal opinion, she was more focused on the morality of selfishness than danger of totalitarianism.

00:06:08.000 She did agree the danger of totalitarianism, but her books almost always began to echo back to the very over-the-top type of celebration of money making for your own purposes and the evil of altruism.

00:06:22.000 What are your thoughts on that, Professor?

00:06:23.000 Yeah, so she's offering both a personal ethic and a philosophy of government.

00:06:28.000 And the personal ethic is one of you really should try to fulfill yourself.

00:06:36.000 That's your first obligation.

00:06:38.000 I'm less interested in that in the book than in the political philosophy.

00:06:42.000 She thinks that anything that government does other than protect people's persons and property is illegitimate.

00:06:49.000 So one of the differences between her and Hayek is if we think about regulating market transactions that affect people who aren't party to the transaction, like pollution.

00:06:59.000 People who suffer from pollution, they're not part of the, they're not the buyer, they're not the seller, they don't get to veto the transaction, but they can be harmed by the transaction.

00:07:10.000 And Hayek thought, well, in that case, you have to have government regulation because the market isn't going to fix that.

00:07:16.000 And she was opposed to any kind of government regulation, even preventing harm to third parties.

00:07:23.000 She was absolutely opposed to any kind of redistribution.

00:07:27.000 So a welfare system, even a social safety net to prevent people from starving, she thought was illegitimate.

00:07:34.000 And those are fundamental differences between her and Hayek.

00:07:37.000 She categorically opposed any kind of redistribution, any kind of regulation.

00:07:42.000 And even a step further than her would be Murray Rothbard, who almost had anarcho-tendencies and leanings.

00:07:48.000 Tell us about him.

00:07:49.000 Not almost.

00:07:51.000 Rothbard was an anarchist.

00:07:53.000 He was a frank anarchist.

00:07:54.000 He thought that any state, any state action at all was illegitimate.

00:08:00.000 He thought that taxation was robbery.

00:08:03.000 And he thought that if we do away with the state altogether, that people would gain from trade.

00:08:09.000 It's in nobody's business.

00:08:12.000 It's in nobody's interest for us to fight with each other.

00:08:16.000 So we don't need the state to maintain peace and prosperity.

00:08:21.000 So, therefore, with that kind of a backdrop, you argue then that the last couple decades, especially recently, last 10 years, we're actually living in some of the economic policy and philosophy, especially in the Republican Party, that these libertarian thinkers kind of built for us in the 50s and 60s.

00:08:43.000 Help us explore that.

00:08:45.000 Yeah, so if you look at the position of the Republican Party, for instance, Trump during his presidency, and he had control of both houses of Congress to support him, and he presented himself as a champion of the working class.

00:09:00.000 But if you look at what he actually did, what he did was primarily big tax cuts for the rich and gutting the federal regulatory apparatus, including the apparatus that protects people from pollution, and an effort to massively cut health care in order to have more tax cuts for the rich.

00:09:20.000 And none of this particularly benefits working people, even though that's what he was offering.

00:09:26.000 The basic idea in practice was anything that we can do to limit the state is a good thing.

00:09:33.000 And this worked primarily to the benefit of businesses and people who were inconvenienced by any kind of regulation and redistribution.

00:09:42.000 There are people in the Republican Party who are pushing back against that, but there's only a few of them.

00:09:49.000 And so far, they're pretty politically isolated.

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00:10:56.000 I might disagree with some of the characterization of the Trump stuff, but we could put that aside.

00:11:00.000 I'm more interested in talking about and exploring how certain people in the Republican Party will fight for corporate handouts and giveaways or deregulation of corporations and almost have these, let's say, libertarian philosophical think tanks backing them up for it.

00:11:20.000 So let me give you just a very simple example, okay?

00:11:23.000 There's a libertarian think tank in Washington, D.C. called the Cato Institute, who will argue for almost no government regulation at all for technology companies.

00:11:31.000 And certain Republicans will say, here's the documents of why I believe this.

00:11:35.000 But you look at the donors, it's Google and the biggest technology companies that are funding these libertarian think tanks.

00:11:41.000 Talk about how some of the biggest corporations have found friends in the libertarian community, even though the corporations themselves probably don't believe this, but it is good for business.

00:11:51.000 I think that that's right.

00:11:52.000 I'll say that as a general matter, corporations are just unreliable guides to politics because assuming that I'm running a company, honestly, my job is to maximize value for my shareholders.

00:12:08.000 I am not there to have an abstract conversation about truth.

00:12:11.000 I want to promote the government actions that are going to make money for my company.

00:12:16.000 And so sometimes that means that I'm going to say things that I don't believe.

00:12:20.000 And so I'm going to say things that I don't believe.

00:12:22.000 You shouldn't assume that a company really believes what it's saying any more than you should believe that a lawyer believes that his client is innocent.

00:12:30.000 Even if he thinks that his client is guilty, he's got an obligation to his client to make the best case he can for his client.

00:12:36.000 No, of course.

00:12:36.000 But the issue is not the corporation.

00:12:38.000 It's that they fund other think tanks generously who then have at least the appearance that they believe this stuff.

00:12:47.000 Yeah, the people I know at the Cato Institute really do honestly believe what they are saying, but it is true that their funders have other motives.

00:12:57.000 Okay.

00:12:58.000 So just kind of walk us through kind of more of the modern day argument here, like just kind of the application, right?

00:13:05.000 So we have a conservative audience.

00:13:07.000 What do you think that conservatives can learn kind of most like what is the most helpful lesson from your book, you would argue, or your research for conservatives about libertarian philosophy and how you believe it was corrupted by both delusion and greed?

00:13:22.000 Well, I think that if what you are trying to do is promote traditional values, I mean, one point that you've sometimes emphasized is that the value of the American working class are at some distance from the values of the educated elites in the Democratic Party.

00:13:38.000 And that creates an opening for the Republican Party.

00:13:41.000 But I think if the Republican Party is going to take advantage of this, it has to actually raise the standard of living for those working class people whose lives have become much more precarious than they were 30 years ago.

00:13:54.000 And that's going to require some more intervention in the economy than the libertarianism allows.

00:14:01.000 And that's going to require a fundamental value shift within the Republican Party.

00:14:08.000 It's going to mean, for example, Tom Cotton introduced a bill to try to provide more vocational training for people who are not going to go to college at all, who are just out of high school and they want to work.

00:14:20.000 But that involves redistribution.

00:14:23.000 That involves raising money via taxes and using it to give these folks training.

00:14:28.000 Libertarianism is absolutely opposed to this because it involves raising taxes and it involves giving money to people just because they need it and distributing outside the market.

00:14:40.000 Another is pollution.

00:14:42.000 Pollution tends to benefit large shareholders, tends to hurt workers and ordinary people who've got to drink the air and breathe the water.

00:14:52.000 And the Republican Party's become more extreme in both those directions.

00:14:57.000 And to the extent that it remains extreme in libertarian directions, that damages its chance of being an appealing working class party.

00:15:05.000 Professor Koppelman, very interesting.

00:15:07.000 Thank you so much for your time.

00:15:08.000 Thank you.

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00:16:12.000 Okay, I want to get through a couple topics here.

00:16:14.000 The first of which I just want to explore with you the Georgia runoff, and then I'm going to get to Trump's statements this weekend, which I actually saw President Trump this weekend.

00:16:23.000 We had a great conversation.

00:16:24.000 As you know, I'm a supporter of his.

00:16:26.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

00:16:27.000 I do want to mention.

00:16:27.000 So the professor in the previous segment, I didn't know anything about him coming in.

00:16:31.000 I thought he was articulate and he got some things right.

00:16:33.000 I didn't want to spend my time debating the finer points with him about the Trump stuff or the blue-collar boom.

00:16:39.000 I have disagreements.

00:16:40.000 Actually, blue-collar workers did very well under President Trump, and then they didn't do so well once the lockdowns came.

00:16:46.000 But there was a blue-collar boom.

00:16:47.000 It was legitimate.

00:16:48.000 It was real.

00:16:49.000 But I felt our time was best, most fruitful talking about his book and his philosophy, not having some sort of sparring match back and forth.

00:16:55.000 And you guys have heard my opinions rather extensively on that stuff.

00:16:59.000 If you have any questions about it, email mefreedom at charliekirk.com.

00:17:02.000 But I thought he was compelling and articulate, partially on it, but I also think that it's not totally true that Republican Party has completely embraced pollution, but that's a separate issue.

00:17:13.000 Okay.

00:17:13.000 But he seemed like a sweet person.

00:17:15.000 Okay, so let me first get to Georgia.

00:17:17.000 So I have a flurry of emails about Georgia.

00:17:20.000 I think there is an understandable hesitation for some people in the conservative movement and the Republican Party to stop getting our hopes up.

00:17:32.000 I think a fair amount of people say, you know what, Charlie, if I keep on getting my hopes up, then I'm just going to keep on getting crushed.

00:17:40.000 And it seems as if at least nationally, people are, it's a symbol.

00:17:46.000 It's similar.

00:17:47.000 Let me put it that way.

00:17:48.000 It's similar to the following.

00:17:50.000 It's similar to, I will never love again.

00:17:53.000 I will never get my hopes up.

00:17:55.000 I will never date again.

00:17:56.000 I will never allow myself to be in a meaningful relationship because getting dumped, breaking up, it's just too damaging.

00:18:05.000 It sounds very similar.

00:18:06.000 And by the way, it's perfectly understandable.

00:18:10.000 You get you, somebody sent me this email.

00:18:14.000 They said, Charlie, it's as if you get cheated on by your girlfriend or boyfriend repeatedly.

00:18:18.000 You're not going to want to date anymore.

00:18:20.000 You get the whole cheated on.

00:18:22.000 It's very, very wise.

00:18:23.000 It's very smart.

00:18:24.000 And it's in some ways very true.

00:18:26.000 People say, I'm done.

00:18:28.000 I'm tired of being cheated on.

00:18:30.000 I'm tired of the two-face.

00:18:33.000 However, that's not a good excuse to give up on the country.

00:18:36.000 And I'm not saying you are.

00:18:38.000 I know a lot of you guys are working hard in Georgia right now, but there is an undeniable enthusiasm gap between Democrats and Republicans.

00:18:50.000 There is a malaise.

00:18:51.000 I'm reading the emails right here.

00:18:51.000 There just is.

00:18:53.000 I got an email right here from Beau.

00:18:55.000 Charlie, I could not care less about what happens in Georgia. 1.00

00:18:59.000 We need to fix our elections before I start caring about some stupid, silly runoff. 1.00

00:19:03.000 Okay, I agree with part of it. 0.99

00:19:05.000 I think we should fix our elections.

00:19:06.000 I think that's right.

00:19:07.000 But saying I'm not going to care about a runoff that could determine the future of the balance of the U.S. Senate, I understand the base is completely demoralized.

00:19:18.000 But look, right now, Republicans are down probably about 200,000 early votes right now in Georgia.

00:19:25.000 We have no idea what's going to happen tomorrow in Georgia.

00:19:28.000 It would take a lot of voters to turn out.

00:19:30.000 We'll see.

00:19:31.000 Now, I think it's a mistake what's happened in Georgia.

00:19:35.000 This is what really bothers me about the Republican Party and the conservative movement.

00:19:40.000 How people don't get on the same page.

00:19:43.000 If Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis would have both barnstormed the state of Georgia in certain select areas, I believe that Warnock would be defeated.

00:19:55.000 If every voter who voted for Walker a month ago turned out again, it's almost a guarantee win.

00:20:01.000 But because turnout will be down and our voters don't want to go vote twice, of which takes all of five to 10 minutes, the country will be less free.

00:20:09.000 It's really that simple.

00:20:10.000 Now, someone says here, Charlie, how can I get excited about an election when we feel it's rigged to start?

00:20:16.000 Okay, that's understandable, but that's also not a good reason not to go vote.

00:20:23.000 At least open up the opportunity, at least make it possible by you voting.

00:20:33.000 Said separately, not voting guarantees the bad guys will win.

00:20:39.000 Voting gives us a chance that we can win.

00:20:42.000 And every state is different. 0.94

00:20:43.000 Georgia is rather crooked. 0.95

00:20:45.000 Florida is not.

00:20:46.000 If the people of Florida thought that way, Ron DeSantis never would have become governor.

00:20:52.000 And I have to keep on reminding you: Democrats do not talk like this.

00:20:56.000 Democrats are always ready to fight.

00:20:58.000 It takes a lot to demoralize Democrats.

00:21:01.000 It takes a lot.

00:21:03.000 When we won in 2016, we won the House, the Senate, and the presidency, and Donald Trump carried the country on his back.

00:21:12.000 What were liberals doing?

00:21:13.000 They showed up on Inauguration Day and afterwards, yeah, I know they were burning down Washington, D.C., but they also had the female march, what are they called?

00:21:20.000 The woman's march, whatever it was, Madonna saying she's going to blow up the White House.

00:21:24.000 They were ready. 0.59

00:21:25.000 They planned a coup 19 minutes after the inauguration.

00:21:29.000 How do I say this without upsetting a lot of people?

00:21:32.000 As a general rule, this is a better way to say it with the right pretext.

00:21:36.000 As a general rule, in America today, liberals want it more than conservatives.

00:21:43.000 I'm not saying you.

00:21:45.000 If you're listening to this program, you are the exception to this rule, okay?

00:21:50.000 But as a general rule, they give more money, dedicate more time, they fight harder than we do.

00:21:58.000 That is a general rule.

00:22:00.000 Right now, Democrats see a clear vision for a takeover of America.

00:22:05.000 And by the way, sometimes caring less is actually a good thing.

00:22:08.000 You should actually care about your family more than politics.

00:22:11.000 It makes you much, it makes you a deeply unhappy person if you care about politics as much as Democrats do.

00:22:19.000 But Democrats are salivating because they see our side is caring very little.

00:22:28.000 Charlie, I voted early in Georgia for Herschel Walker.

00:22:31.000 I'm very disappointed that Herschel Walker or others didn't come to the second largest city in Georgia to rally the base.

00:22:36.000 I'm not sure what the second largest city is.

00:22:38.000 Is Savannah the second largest city?

00:22:41.000 Can we double check that?

00:22:42.000 I don't know what the second largest city would be.

00:22:44.000 Or Columbus, Georgia?

00:22:46.000 Maybe there's an obvious city I'm missing.

00:22:48.000 I love Georgia.

00:22:49.000 I just don't know the geography that well.

00:22:51.000 Yeah, I would guess Savannah is the second largest city.

00:22:54.000 Maybe Athens?

00:22:56.000 I don't know.

00:22:58.000 Augusta is the second largest city.

00:22:59.000 Is that right?

00:23:00.000 Is Augusta really the second largest city?

00:23:02.000 I don't know.

00:23:03.000 Columbus is a great place.

00:23:04.000 Wow, Augusta is the second largest city.

00:23:06.000 Yeah, Augusta is a play.

00:23:07.000 Yeah, Augusta is famous for obvious reasons if you like golf.

00:23:12.000 But Augusta should be a Republican stronghold and it's just turned in recent years.

00:23:18.000 I don't know why I can't answer that.

00:23:20.000 So look, do we want to be a generation that gave up on America?

00:23:28.000 That's currently what's trending here.

00:23:31.000 Got an email here from Ann, Ann from Georgia.

00:23:36.000 Charlie, I reluctantly voted in the runoff.

00:23:38.000 I don't think my vote counts.

00:23:39.000 Many of my MAGA Patriot friends are refusing to turn out.

00:23:43.000 It's all rigged.

00:23:44.000 Okay.

00:23:46.000 Derek from North Carolina.

00:23:47.000 Charlie, I live right on the border.

00:23:48.000 I see a lot of the ads as they spill over into North Carolina.

00:23:54.000 It doesn't matter who wins in Georgia.

00:23:56.000 The country's going to hell.

00:23:58.000 Okay.

00:23:59.000 Yeah, that's a common sentiment we get emailed to us, by the way.

00:24:02.000 It's all over.

00:24:03.000 It doesn't matter.

00:24:04.000 I'm 29 years old with a daughter.

00:24:06.000 I don't have the luxury just to be cynical.

00:24:10.000 I refuse.

00:24:11.000 I'm not going to give up on America and say it's all going to hell.

00:24:11.000 I reject.

00:24:15.000 I think that's a deeply damaging belief.

00:24:19.000 But a lot of people believe it.

00:24:20.000 I see it right here.

00:24:22.000 Here, Charlie, I live in North Carolina.

00:24:25.000 I have walked door to door for Herschel Walker, the phones for Georgia, because they're our neighbors.

00:24:29.000 I'm astounded at how many younger voters like Raphael Warnock.

00:24:34.000 I've spent the majority of time untangling the lies they put out.

00:24:37.000 See you in Phoenix for Amfest, Margo, and North Carolina.

00:24:40.000 God bless you, Margo.

00:24:41.000 Thank you.

00:24:42.000 It's very interesting.

00:24:43.000 Years ago, there was a belief, people speculated that North Carolina was going to go blue, and no one really thought Georgia could go blue.

00:24:54.000 Georgia's Democrat turn has happened very quickly.

00:24:59.000 It's also because of Georgia's silly and dangerous law that invited Hollywood into Georgia and gave tax credits for the film industry. 0.98

00:25:11.000 One of the dumbest things they've ever done. 0.97

00:25:13.000 Arizona blocked that law years ago. 0.98

00:25:15.000 You see, the Democrats after 2016 were smart.

00:25:19.000 They realized Florida and Georgia with the new Republican Party, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, were going right.

00:25:24.000 Same with North Carolina, rural, industrial.

00:25:28.000 So they decided to try to open the map.

00:25:30.000 And do you know what Georgia and Arizona have in common?

00:25:34.000 Can we get the Jeopardy music?

00:25:36.000 What do Georgia and Arizona have in common? 0.98

00:25:38.000 Mass populations clustered in urban areas.

00:25:44.000 Arizona, 62% of all voters are in Maricopa County.

00:25:49.000 And also Atlanta and Phoenix have very significant suburban populations, suburban populations, with upper-middle-class white women that watch television a lot and can be easily persuaded with messaging about fringe candidates and Donald Trump and a return to normalcy.

00:26:09.000 They're making Raphael Warnock look like a moderate Democrat.

00:26:12.000 The guy's a Marxist, and that story is not being told.

00:26:15.000 Democrats are outspending Herschel Walker 10 to 1 in the state of Georgia right now.

00:26:18.000 10 to 1.

00:26:19.000 Democrats just want it more.

00:26:20.000 They raise more money.

00:26:21.000 They're able to deploy more money.

00:26:23.000 I think it's a huge mistake to not have Donald Trump come to Georgia.

00:26:26.000 I see no calculation whatsoever why Donald Trump should not have done two rallies, one in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district and one in Valdosta, Georgia.

00:26:34.000 Donald Trump is a 45-minute flight away from Mar-a-Lago to Georgia.

00:26:39.000 Ron DeSantis is 50 miles away from the Georgia border.

00:26:45.000 Did Ron DeSantis come and campaign in Georgia for Herschel Walker?

00:26:50.000 I didn't see it.

00:26:52.000 I'm not accusing him.

00:26:53.000 I'm saying, why was this not done?

00:26:54.000 Why didn't we just prioritize this?

00:26:56.000 Our donors, the Republican Party, the RNC chair, I don't care, but who's in charge?

00:27:03.000 This is a Senate seat that is so winnable where you have a state that has more registered Republicans than Democrats.

00:27:09.000 I don't know.

00:27:10.000 I hope Herschel wins.

00:27:11.000 But if not, you're going to have to scratch your head and say, wait a second.

00:27:13.000 Ron DeSantis is 50 miles away from the border.

00:27:16.000 Donald Trump is 50 minutes by plane.

00:27:21.000 Okay, I want to lean right into this story that has everybody freaking out over the Trump post this weekend.

00:27:29.000 Okay, I want to read it word for word.

00:27:31.000 He said, okay, so with the revelation of massive and widespread fraud and deception in working closely with big tech companies, the DNC and Democrat Party, do you throw out the presidential election results of 2020 out and declare the rightful winner, or do you have a new election?

00:27:52.000 Okay, I think that's a fair question.

00:27:55.000 A massive fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.

00:28:09.000 Our great, quote, founders did not want and would not condone false and fraudulent elections.

00:28:16.000 Okay, I don't think it's helpful language to say that we should throw out the Constitution.

00:28:21.000 I think that's probably a fair thing to say.

00:28:24.000 But the essence of what I believe he is saying here, and I'll continue, is saying that the founding fathers and the designers of our system would not put up, would not put up with, or would not have a system that would be therefore desirable in the sense of allowing a private actor to come in and suppress the distribution of information.

00:28:49.000 He clarified, he continues, the fake news is actually trying to convince the American people that I said I wanted to terminate the Constitution.

00:28:56.000 This is simply just disinformation and lies.

00:28:58.000 Okay, so he's clarifying. 0.92

00:29:00.000 Just like the Russia, Russia, Russia, and all their other hoaxes and scams.

00:29:04.000 What I said was that if there was massive and widespread fraud and inception, as has been irrefutably proven in the 2020 election, steps must be immediately taken to right the wrong. 0.93

00:29:13.000 Only fools would disagree with that and accept stone elections MAGA.

00:29:16.000 Simply put, if an election is irrefutably fraudulent, it should go to the rightful winner or at minimum be redone. 0.97

00:29:22.000 Where open and blatant fraud is involved, there should be no limit for change.

00:29:27.000 And then the media comes out and says Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution in Truth Social Post.

00:29:32.000 No, he did not.

00:29:33.000 That's not what he did.

00:29:36.000 The language could have been more precise so that it would not be able to be misconstrued.

00:29:42.000 The way I read it originally when I read it is what he was saying, in my personal opinion: if we cannot have elections, then what's the point in even having a Constitution that is all designed around the premise of consent to the governed?

00:29:58.000 Okay.

00:29:59.000 And you also must understand, this is a former president who should still be president, who is rather fired up right now for good reason, because from every direction, the FBI, the CIA, the Department of Justice, all across the board.

00:30:16.000 But the way I read it, and I think that a lot of other people did, is, what's the point in even having this beautiful Constitution, having separation of powers, checks and balances, consent to the governed, permission of the people, and elections?

00:30:31.000 What is the point if all of it just gets thrown out because we can't have fair and free elections?

00:30:37.000 Okay.

00:30:38.000 And people say Donald Trump wants to shred the Constitution.

00:30:41.000 No, actually, Joe Biden shreds the Constitution on a daily basis, from vaccine mandates to unconstitutional student loan forgiveness to keeping the United States southern border wide open.

00:30:53.000 Paradoxically and ironically, more ironically is the more appropriate word, Donald Trump was a defender of the Constitution when he was president.

00:31:02.000 Donald Trump actually listened to court judgments when they came through.

00:31:06.000 These posts mean very little to me, and they should mean very little to you.

00:31:10.000 Show me the actions of an individual.

00:31:14.000 And when Donald Trump was president, he was a defender of the Constitution daily, hourly, minute by minute, from the border to treaties to appropriate and prudent foreign policy intervention to justices, Amy Coney Barrett, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, circuit court judges, to executive power.

00:31:37.000 Donald Trump was right within the tradition of honoring, appreciating, and defending the United States Constitution.

00:31:47.000 Joe Biden pretends he's for the Constitution and obliterates it on a daily basis.

00:31:53.000 So people say, oh, he wants to get rid of the Constitution in the social media posts.

00:31:56.000 Just calm down.

00:31:57.000 First of all, look at his clarification.

00:31:59.000 Look at what he really meant by what he said.

00:32:02.000 Language could have been more precise.

00:32:04.000 Get over yourself.

00:32:05.000 He as a president, the most pro-Constitution president of my lifetime.

00:32:09.000 Obama, I got a pen and a phone.

00:32:11.000 George W. Bush, I'm going to send troops to every sovereign country and every continent, regardless of what the Constitution is.

00:32:16.000 We're going to waterboard.

00:32:18.000 Donald Trump follows the Constitution to the letter of the law.

00:32:21.000 Show me the actions of somebody, not some musings on truth social so that the media can say he wants the termination of the Constitution.

00:32:30.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:32:32.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:32:35.000 Thank you so much for listening.

00:32:36.000 God bless.

00:32:41.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 06, 2022

The Collapse of Libertarianism? + Trump's Constitution Comment Explained with Andrew Koppelman

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