The Charlie Kirk Show - The Cowardice of a Nonpolitical Church with Eric Metaxas

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Tana Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Eric Metaxas joins us to discuss his new book, Letter to the American Church.

00:00:06.000 Super important. 0.86

00:00:07.000 If you are a Christian or go to a church, you need to listen to this entire episode and text it to your pastor, especially if your pastor is silent and a coward.

00:00:14.000 Email me your thoughts as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:35.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:36.000 Here we go.

00:00:37.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:39.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:41.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:44.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:47.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:48.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:49.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:51.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:57.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

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00:01:22.000 Welcome back, everybody.

00:01:23.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:01:26.000 One of the most important books written in the last year is a book by my friend Eric Metaxas, Letter to the American Church.

00:01:35.000 And we are here.

00:01:36.000 We've had Eric before on the program to talk about it, but we're going to do a whole other hour talking about the basic arguments made in this book and why the American church needs to awaken into action.

00:01:47.000 Eric, welcome back to the program.

00:01:50.000 It's my privilege and my joy, my friend Charlie.

00:01:54.000 Love you and what you're doing.

00:01:56.000 So grateful for you, for your voice.

00:01:58.000 I can't even, I'll stop now because I could go on for an hour just talking about how grateful I am.

00:02:04.000 People say, you know, why should I have hope?

00:02:07.000 You're one of the reasons, folks, you'd have hope.

00:02:09.000 And let it be known that I am wearing a tie and Eric Metaxas is not.

00:02:09.000 That touches me.

00:02:13.000 That just, I had to say that.

00:02:15.000 For those of you listening on podcasting, I am dressed up more.

00:02:19.000 And the first time in the history of Western civilization, I am dressed up more than Eric Metaxas.

00:02:26.000 Eric, why did you write the book?

00:02:29.000 Well, there's no way to say this, so you just have to say it.

00:02:36.000 When I wrote my Bonhoeffer book over 10 years ago, as I'm writing about what happened to Germany in the 30s, I'm getting this creeping feeling as I'm doing the research that that same thing is happening here in the United States.

00:02:53.000 I said, I don't want to believe this.

00:02:55.000 I don't want to see these parallels, but I could begin to smell this over 10 years ago.

00:03:01.000 And as time has passed, I have seen the horror of this unfold as reality.

00:03:09.000 And the basic thesis of the book, the new book that I write about, deals with that.

00:03:15.000 What I say, the reason I wrote the book is because it was the silence and inaction of the German church, specifically in the 30s, the silence and the inaction of the German church that allowed the rise of Hitler and an evil come into history that we can hardly process even today.

00:03:40.000 The parallels to what is happening today, because of the silence of much of the American church and the inaction of the American church, the parallels are as dramatic as anything.

00:03:51.000 When I really saw this, Charlie, I said, I got to write about this.

00:03:55.000 And I was going to publish the book myself.

00:03:57.000 I said, I just need to write this really short and to get it to Christian leaders so that they can see what I see.

00:04:04.000 But Salem, my publisher, met with me and they said, hey, we've got an idea for a book for you to write, Eric.

00:04:09.000 How about this?

00:04:10.000 And they basically described this book.

00:04:12.000 And I said, okay, I'm going to publish it with Salem.

00:04:14.000 But I thought this is a warning and it lays the blame, the nightmare of what we're all experiencing.

00:04:22.000 You talk about it every day.

00:04:24.000 How did it happen?

00:04:25.000 How is this happening?

00:04:26.000 Largely because of the silence of the American church, which parallels precisely the silence of the German church.

00:04:32.000 I don't just say it parallels it in that it exists.

00:04:35.000 I mean, the excuses that German pastors and German leaders in the church gave for being silent in the face of evil, for saying we don't want to get political.

00:04:45.000 We can't get political.

00:04:47.000 Every one of the excuses they give in the 30s is paralleled today.

00:04:53.000 So I wrote the book because I believe God wants us to save the republic.

00:04:59.000 And he says the church is responsible.

00:05:01.000 If the church will wake up and understand that its silence is allowing satanic evil to destroy America, if the church wakes up, America can be saved. 0.68

00:05:12.000 But right now, obviously, the church has been dramatically silent.

00:05:16.000 And it's why you and I do what we do.

00:05:19.000 Now, I want to unpack this, you know, point by point, but let's start with one of those that you mentioned.

00:05:25.000 Give us more example, more detail, more clarity into how the German church, what they were saying, for example, after Kristallnacht, after the beginning of putting Jews on trains.

00:05:36.000 Oh, before, no, this was way before that.

00:05:38.000 This is the key, actually.

00:05:40.000 I'm glad you brought this up.

00:05:41.000 It's way before that.

00:05:43.000 In 1933, 34, nobody is dreaming about Kristallnacht and about death camps.

00:05:50.000 Nobody.

00:05:51.000 So the church in Germany said, why do we need to speak up?

00:05:56.000 You know what?

00:05:56.000 The pendulum swings.

00:05:58.000 You know, Hitler will be in there for a little while. 0.99

00:06:01.000 We can't get political.

00:06:02.000 We can't take sides.

00:06:03.000 We've got Nazi friends.

00:06:04.000 I don't want to lose people in my congregation.

00:06:07.000 We are going to be silent.

00:06:08.000 It was because of their silence in the beginning, before any of this stuff happened, that led to these things happening.

00:06:16.000 So I want to be clear.

00:06:18.000 What was the excuse they gave?

00:06:19.000 They all said, number one, the church can't be political.

00:06:24.000 The church shouldn't be political.

00:06:25.000 Romans 13, it's very clear.

00:06:27.000 We don't go there.

00:06:28.000 We stay in our theological lane.

00:06:30.000 We, quote unquote, we just preach the gospel. 0.99

00:06:33.000 Total garbage, theologically nonsensical, unbiblical. 1.00

00:06:37.000 But they all bought into this and it gave them an out. 0.99

00:06:40.000 They said, yeah, yeah, that's not our job.

00:06:42.000 We're just going to, we're just going to skip that.

00:06:44.000 It was because of that theological error, which again, just to be clear, is from the pit of hell and allowed evil to triumph.

00:06:52.000 But it silenced the church at the precise time in the beginning when the church could have affected not just change, but could have really been, would have been the only institution in Germany that could have stood against the wicked, the evil of the Nazis.

00:07:11.000 The church really was poised in Germany with tremendous cultural power, precisely the way the American church is in this nation.

00:07:18.000 And Bonhoeffer said, let me finish here saying, Bonhoeffer said, the church is the conscience of the state.

00:07:23.000 He knew if the church speaks up, these evil things won't happen.

00:07:27.000 The church was silent and we know what happened.

00:07:29.000 So Joram Hazzoni was on our program and he made a very interesting observation that at the founding of the modern German university, their mission statement, both privately and publicly, was to discredit and destroy the Bible's influence over Germany and of the West.

00:07:45.000 That was the reason why he believed the secular university.

00:07:49.000 That's really what they focused on.

00:07:50.000 Walk us through the ideological or philosophical underpinnings in the 20s and 30s, 1920s and 30s, that then started to seep into German Protestantism.

00:08:00.000 Because this was mainly, I mean, Germany was not a largely Catholic state, correct?

00:08:05.000 Oh, no, Germany was largely Lutheran.

00:08:09.000 There's no question about it.

00:08:10.000 I mean, Luther, about whom I've written a book, Luther was Germany.

00:08:15.000 I mean, he was kind of like, you know, practically the George Washington figure, except he's a theological figure, right?

00:08:21.000 And they were so, I mean, this is, again, this is the danger is that when you think everything's going really great, you take your eye off the ball.

00:08:30.000 So one thing we have to understand, and this is what Bonhoeffer saw, was that Germans had become so culturally Christian, had become so comfortably Christian that they forgot what it was to actually be a Christian.

00:08:42.000 And they just thought, you know what?

00:08:43.000 The church and state get along.

00:08:45.000 We've never had a problem.

00:08:46.000 They didn't have the history that we have in this country of separation of church and state.

00:08:50.000 So, you know, when the Kaiser was in power, Kaiser was pro-Christian. 0.83

00:08:54.000 Everything was great.

00:08:55.000 So once Hitler comes into power in 1930, early 33, they are not ready for what happens if the state goes to war against the church. 0.55

00:09:08.000 This is really separate from what you asked, but just so people can frame it, what happens if the state says, you know what, we're going to control the church.

00:09:16.000 We're going to make the church do what we want it to do.

00:09:19.000 We're going to force it to stay in its quote-unquote theological lane.

00:09:23.000 They can't say anything that will affect the Third Reich, that will affect our government policies.

00:09:28.000 In America, we would know wrong.

00:09:30.000 The church is the church.

00:09:32.000 The church is separate from the state.

00:09:34.000 But in Germany, that was one major, major problem that they had.

00:09:39.000 So I want to say that first.

00:09:42.000 Your question of what had been happening, it's kind of complicated, Charlie, because, you know, when we talk about the church, we understand we're talking about many churches, right?

00:09:49.000 I mean, there were some people that are on fire for God.

00:09:52.000 There are other people that are just going through the motions.

00:09:56.000 I think that because Germany was so wedded culturally with Luther and the Lutheran church, that it was very easy for anybody who thought, I'm a German, I'm a Lutheran.

00:10:07.000 What more do you want from me, right?

00:10:09.000 I'm done.

00:10:10.000 They didn't understand that for the church to be the church, God always calls his church, his people, to be active, to be vocal, to be soldiers for love and goodness and truth, not simply to attend some service on a Sunday morning and to get dressed up and whatever.

00:10:29.000 So the church was playing church.

00:10:31.000 The church had been lulled into this idea that, you know, it's not our job to get involved in that other stuff.

00:10:38.000 Bonhoeffer understood, no, no, no, that is precisely your job. 0.99

00:10:41.000 You're being cowardly. 0.98

00:10:43.000 You're being confused. 0.98

00:10:45.000 Let me clarify.

00:10:46.000 The church is the conscience of the state.

00:10:48.000 And if the church doesn't speak up now, this was in 33, God will hold us responsible for what happens.

00:10:58.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:12:02.000 Eric, let me play a piece of tape here.

00:12:04.000 This is cut 25.

00:12:06.000 This is Beach Kiley telling Sky Jethaney: Gender has impacted our understanding of God.

00:12:13.000 There's got to be an evolving conversation about gender and how that plays into our understanding of God.

00:12:19.000 This is, these are faith leaders.

00:12:20.000 Play cut 25.

00:12:22.000 I sense that folks younger than us have increasing awareness around how gender has impacted our understanding of God and our language around God and even our roles in society.

00:12:39.000 And I think there's going to be an evolving conversation about gender and how that plays into our understanding of God.

00:12:46.000 Now, I'm not sure if she's a pastor, but she is on staff at a church in Raleigh, North Carolina.

00:12:52.000 I think she's also on weed, Charlie.

00:12:57.000 Just point a theological point.

00:13:04.000 When you play that for me, I just can't, but you have to understand it's so painful for me to listen to that because Skye Jethani, you know, a couple of years ago, I considered him a friend.

00:13:13.000 You know, we're on the same side of things.

00:13:15.000 We believe in Jesus.

00:13:17.000 The madness that has entered the church, it's just, let me be really clear.

00:13:23.000 You said, why did I write the book, Letter to the American Church?

00:13:26.000 I wrote it to reach people who don't know what they think.

00:13:30.000 When they hear something like that, this is Christian pastors and leaders, and they go, oh, yeah, maybe I need to play ball. 0.79

00:13:36.000 I need to hear more about this. 0.98

00:13:38.000 I want to say to them, nonsense. 0.98

00:13:41.000 These people are importing insane ideas.

00:13:45.000 And if you care about your congregation, and by the way, if you love your neighbors who live in your community, you need to stand against this.

00:13:53.000 This is, it's not just nonsense.

00:13:56.000 It's dangerous.

00:13:57.000 And when the church, I mean, because look, there are three kinds of churches, right?

00:14:01.000 They're brave churches like our, you know, our friend Rob McCoy.

00:14:05.000 And there's a number of churches that they're brave.

00:14:07.000 They're talking about stuff.

00:14:08.000 Then there are crazy places like what we just heard.

00:14:11.000 It's crazy.

00:14:12.000 The reason I wrote the book is to reach those in the middle who are being silent. 0.99

00:14:16.000 They might not agree with what we just heard, thank the Lord, but they're also not disagreeing with it publicly.

00:14:22.000 They're sort of stepping back and saying, you know what?

00:14:25.000 I don't want to get involved in that.

00:14:27.000 My argument in this book is it is the role of the church.

00:14:32.000 It is God's command to the church.

00:14:34.000 You need to speak on all of these issues from a biblical point of view. 0.91

00:14:39.000 And if you're not crazy like the woman that we just heard, but you're simply silent, you're equally guilty because that is how the crazy people are taking over the culture.

00:14:49.000 The silence of good pastors, the silence of pastors who might not agree with what we just heard, but say, well, she has a point.

00:14:56.000 That's why I wrote the book.

00:14:57.000 So, Eric, I want to challenge on one thing, which is I would prefer some churches to remain silent than say this, play cut 26.

00:15:06.000 We give praise to the great one, the one who was identifiable as God.

00:15:13.000 I am what I am, you say, the great they, the incarnate he and she, the God of trans beings.

00:15:25.000 You shadow, you shatter all stereotypes, making every single person male and female, male and female, intersex, non-binary in your image. 0.77

00:15:41.000 spectrum rainbow god who put your promise for non-violence in the symbol for clear love before humanity knew because you knew i would rather her be quiet than say to the great trans being rainbow god charlie let me tell you something the fact that nt right is sitting behind her having to listen to that i mean i don't know what to make of it again i want to be clear when i talk about the church being silent,

00:16:11.000 okay?

00:16:12.000 This actually, this brings me right into something that at some point in this conversation, I would talk about.

00:16:16.000 In my book, Letter to the American Church, there's a chapter called 12,000 Pastors.

00:16:22.000 Ready for this?

00:16:22.000 Okay.

00:16:24.000 The chapter 12,000 pastors says that in 1933, when the Nazis tried to take over the church, a number of heroic pastors said, no, we see what's happening.

00:16:36.000 We need to write this thing called the Barman Declaration.

00:16:39.000 We need to make very clear we will not allow the Nazi state to take over the church and to tell us what to think. 0.69

00:16:47.000 So I think maybe something like 6,000 pastors out of the 18,000 in Germany signed that document.

00:16:55.000 By 1935, two years later, the intimidation, the bullying had been so strong that only about 3,000 of the 18,000 pastors were willing to stand with the Barman Declaration, to stand for what the Bible says.

00:17:11.000 Okay.

00:17:11.000 Why am I telling you this?

00:17:13.000 Because on the other end of the spectrum, there were 3,000 like the woman you just heard.

00:17:17.000 Yep.

00:17:18.000 Completely crazy.

00:17:19.000 Okay.

00:17:21.000 But it's the 12,000 in the middle, the 12,000 who said, we're not going to take a position.

00:17:26.000 We're going to be quiet.

00:17:28.000 It is the cowardice of being neutral.

00:17:30.000 And that is where most churches are right now.

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00:18:12.000 So, Eric, you were talking about this middle 12,000 pastors.

00:18:16.000 Is that right?

00:18:17.000 Yeah, when you said to me in the first question, why did I write the book?

00:18:21.000 It's because in the middle, in Germany, in the 30s, okay, remember I said we had 3,000 of these 18,000 pastors that were, they were willing to stand for God's truth against what the Nazis were trying to do and take over the church.

00:18:41.000 On the other end of the spectrum, you had their equivalent of the woke crazy people, okay, in the church.

00:18:47.000 But in the middle, Charlie, this is the key.

00:18:49.000 It's why I wrote the book.

00:18:50.000 There were 12,000 of the 18,000 who said, you know what?

00:18:55.000 We're not going to take a stand.

00:18:57.000 We're going to be quiet on that stuff.

00:19:00.000 We were going to kind of want to see which way the wind blows.

00:19:04.000 We don't want to get in trouble.

00:19:06.000 So to me, that is dramatically precisely what we're seeing in America today.

00:19:14.000 In other words, you've got folks like the ones that you, you know, you played those clips who are just.

00:19:18.000 We have more.

00:19:19.000 We got more.

00:19:19.000 Don't worry.

00:19:20.000 Yeah, thank you very much.

00:19:21.000 They're sold out to the looniness, right?

00:19:26.000 But what about those who are being quiet?

00:19:29.000 What about those who are not denouncing what the crazy people on that side?

00:19:34.000 In other words, in Germany, you had 3,000 pastors standing heroically and speaking against the madness.

00:19:41.000 And on the other end of the spectrum, you had 3,000 pro-Nazis, okay?

00:19:45.000 But in the middle, you had the 12,000 who said, we're nice guys.

00:19:48.000 We don't want to be political.

00:19:50.000 So they would not join the 3,000 heroes.

00:19:53.000 They let them hang out to dry.

00:19:54.000 That's exactly what's happening in America. 1.00

00:19:58.000 The garbage that you were playing and that is out there. 0.99

00:20:01.000 If you have a pastor or a Christian leader friend who says, you know what, I don't want to get involved. 0.99

00:20:08.000 I don't want to go up against that.

00:20:10.000 Not only are they wrong ideologically, but they are allowing evil to happen.

00:20:15.000 And so I wrote this book to reach those who are thinking that they can take the safe middle path.

00:20:22.000 I'm not going to, I don't want to get as political as Charlie Kirk or Eric Metaxas.

00:20:22.000 You know what?

00:20:25.000 You know, I'm just going to, I'm going to stand over here.

00:20:28.000 Well, ladies and gentlemen, if you are not fighting this, if you claim to be a member of the church, to believe what the Bible says, and you're being silent on socialism, you're being silent on transgender lunacy, you're being silent on Black Lives Matter, which is destroying, it's a Marxist organization, destroying communities of color. 0.65

00:20:47.000 You're being silent on that stuff because you're afraid that you might get, you know, somebody might look at you funny or call you a name.

00:20:54.000 You claim to believe what the Bible says.

00:20:57.000 You claim to believe Jesus defeated death on the cross and you have no fear.

00:21:01.000 That's what God expects of us to live out our faith.

00:21:04.000 And it is because of the silence and that fear that is happening in America now that we are seeing this utter madness, which by the way is affecting everyone.

00:21:14.000 And it's the responsibility of those who claim to be Christians to speak against it. 0.99

00:21:18.000 Cut 28, a progressive Lutheran says the Great Commission is fake and racist.

00:21:23.000 Play cut 28.

00:21:25.000 Over the course of many years of study, I have come to believe that the so-called Great Commission is anything but the gospel.

00:21:35.000 Indeed, I have come to believe that this particular ending to the gospel, according to Matthew, may be the source of the systemic racism which permeates not just the church, but also all of the Western cultures and institutions, which arose out of what history has dubbed the Holy Roman Empire.

00:21:58.000 Now, Eric, I play this.

00:22:00.000 Is that a high-talking man?

00:22:02.000 It's a Lutheran priest or whatever.

00:22:04.000 I mean, is it a priest or a pastor?

00:22:06.000 I don't know the terminology in Lutheran thought, but the reason I keep playing these, Eric, is not only do we have to deal with the neutrality, but the woke elements of Christianity, they're no longer worried about state.

00:22:18.000 They're not debating whether or not to be silent.

00:22:21.000 They are more forceful and aggressive than ever.

00:22:24.000 No, Charlie, I mean, that's exactly my point in the book is that whenever somebody says, uh-uh, be quiet, you're being political, you'll notice that the people on the left are being dramatically political, insanely political, pro-abortion political. 0.97

00:22:44.000 They are absolutely crazy. 0.92

00:22:46.000 So this idea that there's some safe middle path is utter nonsense. 0.99

00:22:51.000 If you are silent in the face of what you just heard and in the face of what's going on in the country, again, we know that there are crazy people in the church, but the idea that, you know what, I'm going to take a pass.

00:23:02.000 I don't want to criticize what that woman said.

00:23:04.000 She has a point.

00:23:05.000 If you are not vocally standing against that, you're part of the problem.

00:23:10.000 And I want to say it again.

00:23:11.000 The reason I wrote the book, Letter to the American Church, is because we know what happened in Germany when the middle, when the good guys in the middle said, we're going to take a pass, we're going to be silent.

00:23:22.000 When you are going to a church or tithing to a church or part of a community that is silent in the face of the evils that we see, whether it's transgender, all of the stuff that we see, the madness that we're seeing, it is because of the silence of the church in Germany that Hitler was able to crush the church and to destroy innumerable lives. 0.73

00:23:43.000 That satanic evil was unleashed because of the silence of the church.

00:23:47.000 And it is the silence of pastors today.

00:23:50.000 whose churches, by the way, are shrinking because they think that they're going to cling to people by avoiding these issues.

00:23:55.000 Just the opposite.

00:23:56.000 When you deal with these issues and speak the truth, your churches will increase in number.

00:24:01.000 Everywhere I go and you speak in these churches, their numbers are increasing because they're daring to speak about what everybody wants to hear about.

00:24:08.000 Everything is going crazy.

00:24:09.000 What does the church say?

00:24:10.000 When you speak about that, you're serving your congregation and you're doing what God calls you to do.

00:24:15.000 Well, then let's talk about the how.

00:24:16.000 Let's talk about both the how from the person who attends church to also the how of the elder board and the how of the pastor.

00:24:22.000 And so let's first talk about the how of the pastor.

00:24:24.000 I'm sure a pastor is listening to this right now and like, okay, fine, Eric, what does that mean?

00:24:28.000 Stand against, do this.

00:24:29.000 What is the, what does the model look like, Eric?

00:24:32.000 I mean, are you expecting sermons, seminars, workshops?

00:24:35.000 Because I hear this from pastors all the time.

00:24:37.000 They're like, yeah, I'm willing, but I don't know how.

00:24:40.000 Well, you know, this is because I'm a writer and because I wrote this book, the first thing I would want to say, frankly, is read this book because I want to give you the biblical reasoning behind what I'm saying.

00:24:54.000 In other words, before we even talk about what you're going to do, you need to be convinced that what I'm saying is right, that what I'm saying is biblical.

00:25:00.000 And so I try to give the biblical foundation for why being silent and saying, oh, I'm not going to be political or I'm not going to go here.

00:25:08.000 I'm not going to go there.

00:25:09.000 You need to understand how that's biblically wrong.

00:25:12.000 And I wrote the book, Charlie, to convince those people who might, they're not where we are, but I know that there are many, many, many pastors out there.

00:25:20.000 They're looking around and they're afraid.

00:25:23.000 And I wrote this book to galvanize them.

00:25:24.000 So the first thing, obviously, I would say, having written the book is please consider what I have said, because I'm convinced that an open-minded person reading what I wrote, and it's the shortest book I ever wrote, will say, you know what?

00:25:38.000 I'm not hearing this.

00:25:39.000 I hadn't thought of that.

00:25:40.000 Eric has a point.

00:25:41.000 Biblically, I can't be silent.

00:25:43.000 So the first thing is to reason with people.

00:25:46.000 But then when you say what it looks like, it's going to look different in every church.

00:25:50.000 Not everybody is going to be as political as our friends, Jack Hibbs and Robert.

00:25:55.000 Robert Boyd and others.

00:25:56.000 There's some people that they don't know how to do that.

00:25:59.000 And you know what?

00:25:59.000 That's fine.

00:26:00.000 As long as you understand God calls every one of us to take a risk, to stick our neck out, to speak the truth.

00:26:08.000 I mean, you know what the perfect example of this is?

00:26:10.000 When Roe v. Wade was overturned, the lack of celebration in many churches, the lack of declaring what we have prayed for for 50 years has happened.

00:26:19.000 That tells you that people are cowed.

00:26:21.000 They are fearful.

00:26:23.000 They are afraid of the zeitgeist.

00:26:25.000 You know, somebody's going to look at me and say, oh, you're a conservative.

00:26:28.000 You're this, you're that.

00:26:29.000 That fear is not of God.

00:26:31.000 And I want to be really, really clear that, you know, people are always bringing up like, what's the most dramatic scenario?

00:26:37.000 Or you want me to be, you know, telling people that they should vote for Donald Trump from my pulpit?

00:26:41.000 Well, I'm not going to do that.

00:26:42.000 Well, guess what, folks?

00:26:44.000 We're not telling you to do that.

00:26:45.000 But what we're telling you to do is to have courage, not to be afraid.

00:26:50.000 I mean, let's be blunt.

00:26:51.000 When people say you're not supposed to, in the book, I explain how we got to this place that so many churches think it's right not to be political.

00:26:59.000 501c3, I don't want to lose my tax exempt status.

00:27:01.000 And you think, well, where did that come from?

00:27:03.000 That came from one of the most corrupt politicians in the history of the United States, Lyndon Baines Johnson, the Johnson Amendment.

00:27:08.000 And how did I learn about the Johnson Amendment?

00:27:11.000 From Donald Trump, not from a fellow evangelical, from Donald Trump, who smartly looked into this and said, Oh, that's why all the evangelicals are silent and afraid and cowering because of the Johnson amendment.

00:27:24.000 We need to get rid of that.

00:27:25.000 Everybody needs to understand what Johnson did, not only was that wrong, but the silence of the churches in 1954 when Johnson did that, that they said, Oh, okay, we're not going to be political.

00:27:36.000 We'll take that deal.

00:27:37.000 Well, we like we like our tax exempt status, so we're going to keep our mouths shut on anything that might be construed as political.

00:27:42.000 Some pastors will say, But the gospel is greater than all of this.

00:27:45.000 We shouldn't distract ourselves with the things of this earth.

00:27:48.000 I hear it all the time.

00:27:49.000 Yeah, that's nonsense.

00:27:50.000 I'll explain why.

00:27:51.000 There's no such thing as the pure gospel.

00:27:53.000 If somebody brings up slavery, okay, in the days when slavery was legal in parts of the United States, there were pastors who said, Oh, I don't want to speak on that because that's political.

00:28:03.000 Now, we now would say, What a coward, because the Bible commands you to denounce that as evil.

00:28:10.000 There are always going to be people that are going to be afraid to talk.

00:28:14.000 And what they're going to say, they said it in Germany in the 30s.

00:28:17.000 That's what I write about in my book.

00:28:18.000 They're saying it today.

00:28:20.000 That's political.

00:28:21.000 I'm here to tell you: truth is not political.

00:28:23.000 Truth is truth.

00:28:25.000 And you need to stop being afraid of being quote unquote political because the reality is that truth, God's truth is God's truth.

00:28:32.000 And by the way, if you want this kind of Christianity, you can have it in China.

00:28:35.000 In China, the government will let you go in that building, do your little weird rituals, and then when you come out, you bow to the secular authority of the state.

00:28:43.000 That is what silence in the face of evil from the American church today has led to. 0.52

00:28:48.000 And we need to understand it's not only not biblical, it is not God's will for us today.

00:28:53.000 It is his will that we speak on when we do not speak out or correct other pastors, and I'm going to help build out the how as well.

00:29:00.000 You get well-known, well-published pastors that just say this heretical nonsense, like Matt Chandler, who I'm told is a very nice person.

00:29:08.000 Play cut 29.

00:29:10.000 The entire experience of my life has been one of I can easily find people that look like me.

00:29:19.000 Almost all my understanding of what made America great is because of efforts and the work ethic of people like me.

00:29:26.000 But what happens in that kind of upbringing, which is fine, is that there were some lenses put over my eyes.

00:29:36.000 I have grown up with this invisible kind of bag of privilege, this kind of invisible toolkit that I can reach in there at any given moment and have this type of privilege that a lot of other brothers and sisters don't have, don't possess.

00:29:53.000 I could continue going.

00:29:54.000 I mean, this is a fight that we need to be aggressive at, Eric.

00:29:59.000 These heretics need to be a good thing. 1.00

00:30:00.000 Again, you're proving my point.

00:30:02.000 No, of course, Eric, of course, I'm proving your point.

00:30:06.000 Right.

00:30:06.000 Is for pastors like that.

00:30:08.000 He's not an evil man.

00:30:09.000 Matt Chandler is not a bad guy, but he has drunk enough of the Kool-Aid to be mouthing this stuff so that he sounds like he's hip and he gets it.

00:30:19.000 And the young people will say, oh, he gets it and whatever.

00:30:22.000 He is buying into ideas that are evil.

00:30:26.000 They're demonic at its core.

00:30:28.000 But well, yes.

00:30:29.000 But I guess my point is that I wrote the book for folks like him because there are plenty of people in the middle that they wouldn't describe themselves as crazy woke, but they're going along just enough instead of speaking against it.

00:30:43.000 Somebody like Matt Chandler, there are others, there are tons like that, that they think they can have it both ways.

00:30:49.000 And why I wrote the book was that's what they thought in Germany in the 30s.

00:30:54.000 They really thought we don't need to go against that.

00:30:58.000 We're just going to kind of go along to get along.

00:31:01.000 The most dramatic example of this, frankly, I mentioned Andy Stanley.

00:31:04.000 He wrote a book saying exactly the opposite of what I say in my book letter to the American Church, exactly the opposite.

00:31:10.000 It's a theological mess, an historical mess.

00:31:13.000 It's a nightmare, but it's going to mislead tons of people and Christian leaders into thinking, oh, yes, here's the biblical reason for me to do nothing, to say nothing, to avoid the political, and to just let this evil kind of wash over us.

00:31:27.000 You know, it's not my job to deal with it.

00:31:29.000 Nonsense.

00:31:30.000 But the worst thing, Charlie, and I got to tell you, you want to talk about good guys getting it wrong.

00:31:34.000 I go to the Amazon page for this horrible book, huge endorsement by Jim Daly of Focus on the Family.

00:31:41.000 And I thought, what?

00:31:43.000 This is a good guy.

00:31:44.000 I've known Jim for years.

00:31:46.000 He's endorsing this.

00:31:47.000 In other words, there are people that are good people that are getting this wrong.

00:31:53.000 And I wrote this book to try to reach them.

00:31:55.000 I know there's tons of pastors around the country just like that who are basically saying, you know what, I believe we shouldn't be divisive.

00:32:03.000 I believe we shouldn't be too political.

00:32:05.000 And they are going along.

00:32:07.000 And it is because of their silence in the face of evil that evil is triumphing right now.

00:32:13.000 Everything we're seeing that you talk about and I talk about every single day is happening because of the silence of pastors, the silence of good Christian leaders.

00:32:20.000 I'm trying to reach the good Christian leaders in the middle and to help them understand why they've got to speak and understand is what God is asking you to do.

00:32:29.000 It's not what I'm asking you to do.

00:32:30.000 It's what God is asking you to do.

00:32:32.000 And he used Bonhoeffer to try to wake up the church in Germany.

00:32:35.000 They didn't listen to what he had to say.

00:32:37.000 So I'm thinking, does what Bonhoeffer say cannot wake up the American church today?

00:32:42.000 That's why I wrote the book.

00:32:43.000 That's what's in the book.

00:32:44.000 And finally, let's talk about the people who are not pastors.

00:32:47.000 What can those in the audience that have influence over a pastor, a relationship, what can they do?

00:32:53.000 Well, again, I would say, first of all, if you're going to a church that's guilty of this, you know, you can give the pastor a copy of my book and forgive me for promoting the book, right?

00:33:06.000 But I'm saying, like, I want to reach those folks.

00:33:09.000 But if they refuse to do this, if you're going to a church where they have just said, we will not talk about whatever, go down the list, I would be sure to leave that church.

00:33:20.000 So that's really my main advice is that, you know, try in a loving way to persuade them.

00:33:26.000 But if they're not there, do not tithe.

00:33:28.000 Do not go there.

00:33:29.000 Do not support that community because we're in a war and God will hold you responsible, not just your pastor.

00:33:35.000 Each one of us, we are the church.

00:33:38.000 God is calling us to do what the German church failed to do. 0.92

00:33:42.000 And when the German church failed to do it because they had a million theological reasons, we saw that the evil that was unleashed is just beyond anything we can dream of. 0.93

00:33:50.000 We see that happening in America now.

00:33:52.000 We are only in 1934, 35.

00:33:54.000 We're only in the beginnings of it.

00:33:56.000 And if the church doesn't wake up, and you and I know, Charlie, I want to make a documentary film based on this stuff.

00:34:01.000 If the church doesn't wake up, it's over.

00:34:04.000 God appointed the church in Germany to speak up.

00:34:07.000 They were silent.

00:34:08.000 He appointed the church in America right now to speak up.

00:34:11.000 Many of these pastors are being silent.

00:34:14.000 You know who they are.

00:34:15.000 You know who's being brave out there.

00:34:17.000 So we're living in an impossibly important moment.

00:34:21.000 And I just feel like I've never, ever wanted to write a book like this, but I felt an urge literally.

00:34:29.000 I felt God calling me to write this, to say these things, because he doesn't want America to go the way Germany went. 0.84

00:34:36.000 He doesn't want the American church to continue to make the errors that the German church continued to make that destroyed that nation and destroyed Europe and millions of lives, literally. 0.96

00:34:46.000 So kind of important stuff.

00:34:48.000 I'll add to this, if you're a pastor, it's okay to go read 10 to 15, 20 books about what's going on politically.

00:34:53.000 Listen to our program.

00:34:55.000 Some of these pastors are afraid to speak out because they say, oh, there's really not a big deal.

00:34:59.000 I mean, you're wrong.

00:35:00.000 Let me just say this.

00:35:01.000 I'm not going to get into a theological debate with you, but you have to educate yourself.

00:35:04.000 Go read some Thomas Soul, okay?

00:35:06.000 Go read some economics books.

00:35:09.000 Go read something about what's happening in culture.

00:35:11.000 Go read some Christopher Caldwell.

00:35:12.000 Go read some Milton Friedman.

00:35:13.000 Go read some history books.

00:35:15.000 Because some of these pastors are so incredibly economically and historically and philosophically illiterate.

00:35:20.000 I'll be honest.

00:35:21.000 And they say, well, you know, it's not as if anything we're living through is, you know, different or exceptional.

00:35:27.000 And your book is right on the pulse.

00:35:29.000 Letter to the American Church.

00:35:30.000 Right at time.

00:35:30.000 God bless you, Eric.

00:35:31.000 Great job.

00:35:32.000 Thank you.

00:35:32.000 Thank you, my friend.

00:35:33.000 Everyone, check it out.

00:35:34.000 Go buy a bunch.

00:35:35.000 It's really important.

00:35:37.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:38.000 Email me your thoughts.

00:35:39.000 As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:41.000 Thank you so much for listening, and God bless.

00:35:43.000 All right, these four radio ads, and then let's have Spencer come in, okay?

00:35:49.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 24, 2023

The Cowardice of a Nonpolitical Church with Eric Metaxas

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