00:00:42.000His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:51.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:42.000This is a heavy topic, and I mean that in the best possible way.
00:01:46.000I do want to begin our conversation with playing the cut to the trailer of your upcoming film or the podcast product, I should say, The Exorcist Files.
00:03:18.000Yeah, so I converted midway through my undergraduate degree when I was in college.
00:03:25.000I was taken with the witness of a group of, a very small group of faithful Christian students and a couple of professors and an experience of the Lord very dramatically and became a believer.
00:03:44.000And then some years after that, I sensed a call to the priesthood.
00:03:48.000From the beginning of that call, I was placed within exorcisms By exorcists, as starting out as their assistants and then kind of taking over.
00:04:03.000And so I've been working that for the better part of 20 years.
00:04:09.000I have several questions, and we are going to get to that.
00:04:12.000Ryan, you first told me about this project years ago, and you're a serious Christian, and you and I both know plenty of secularists and secular materialists and atheists.
00:04:22.000And your approach was unusual, but quite honestly, very profound.
00:04:26.000Where you said a backdoor way to prove that there is an invisible dimension, that there is something beyond just our five senses, might actually be to talk about people who deal in the darkest elements of our existence, also known as exorcism or exorcist or exorcism.
00:04:44.000Yeah, so I mean, you know, obviously, when we did this, I tried to take a very journalistic approach to this.
00:04:49.000And, you know, obviously, when I was offered an introduction to meet Father Martins, there's a natural fascination that comes up with this topic.
00:04:56.000But I do think it's better for everyone if we're able to actually, you know, look for stories that suggest that we are more than just, you know, flesh and body.
00:05:07.000And there's a soul aspect to humanity.
00:05:10.000And what makes me fascinated with this topic is to explore these stories.
00:05:14.000And you'll find that there's, regardless of whether one believes the claims that we have in this show, the fact is, a vast majority of people, in fact, I think roughly 45% of Americans say they believe in ghosts in general.
00:05:27.000So I think this will ring true to a lot of folks.
00:05:30.000But overall, I just think it's a really important way for us to tell stories that suggest that there is something else going on.
00:05:37.000I actually joke and I say, look, I'm 90% sure I think I know what's going on, but the reality is when you hear stories like this, you realize there is a lot going on beneath the surface that we have no idea about.
00:05:48.000And these stories are just, I mean, nothing has prepared me for when I first met Father and he told me these stories in a monastery in Detroit.
00:05:58.000So it was, I'm hoping other people will have, regardless of your beliefs, I think you will find these stories chilling and also edifying in the sense that they all, for the most part, end pretty well.
00:06:08.000People find freedom and liberation here.
00:06:10.000So, Father Carlos, an initial question I have before we dive into the specifics is: from my understanding, it's unusual for someone who's involved in exorcisms to publicly declare they're involved in exorcisms.
00:06:22.000From what I was told once by a priest, is that they usually don't advertise that because you never know kind of who's going to show up and ask.
00:07:29.000He can drive whatever is in me is out.
00:07:31.000That it's a great, it's a great hope or great temptation to believe in that as kind of a, you know, like I can go in for a session two hours later.
00:07:53.000Because I think We're getting worse in Western society.
00:07:59.000There's a de-Christianization within the values of Western society, and we're embracing something that is really dark.
00:08:08.000And the value of the human person is while the human person is being devalued.
00:08:15.000And so we have to approach things differently.
00:08:19.000And so I thought, you know, I think with the experiences that I've had, they can benefit more than just people who come to me specifically for exorcism, that this can be a way to approach people about the reality of the divine, but a reality also of God's enemy who is out there and who is very active.
00:08:40.000So, Ryan, explain to us the media delivery platform that this is going to be on.
00:08:47.000So, yeah, so walk our audience through that.
00:08:49.000Yeah, we cut the trailer for TikTok and to take advantage of visuals.
00:08:52.000So, it's actually, it's a podcast, but it's a 3D binaural podcast.
00:08:57.000Which makes this different is that we used a 3D mic to actually go out in the field and actually pick up every acoustic nuance there is.
00:09:04.000Father and I and our other producers felt that to really help bring this subject home, it would be important for people to get a sense of the reality of this.
00:09:13.000So, you will be taken auditorily into the room and using this 3D mic, you will experience 3D surround sound.
00:09:29.000Father has plenty of stories, and exorcism very private, very serious.
00:09:33.000And since you will not be able to partake in actually experiencing one, nor should you necessarily want to, you will actually, though, get a sense of these real stories.
00:09:42.000These are first-hand accounts from his case files that are then brought to life with these 3D reenactments.
00:09:47.000Father Carlos, I want you to explain to our audience what you believe happens when an unclean spirit or a demon begins to possess a human form in your theological view and metaphysical view.
00:10:08.000So, when a demon inhabits a person and they inhabit really for two reasons: one, they hate man, they hate human beings, and we are beloved by God.
00:10:56.000When they inhabit, there's a certain measure of relief that they get.
00:11:03.000And we hear that from the Lord in the gospel when he says when a demon leaves somebody, he wanders through arid wastelands, or another translation could be deserts, seeking comfort but finding none.
00:11:18.000And then he will always try to go back to where he came.
00:11:22.000And so, that tells us there's a measure of alleviation in terms of suffering that they get when they inhabit a person.
00:11:29.000So, those are the two kinds of motives.
00:11:33.000When somebody is inhabited, they are unfree.
00:11:38.000They, you know, when somebody is possessed, there are two souls, if you will, two spirits inhabiting one body.
00:11:47.000I mean, at least two, because it's possible to be possessed by more than one spirit.
00:11:52.000And so what you have is a fight for the controls.
00:11:56.000And the demons being more powerful than a human person is, when they decide to exert that, then the human being doesn't stand a chance.
00:12:05.000And so you have a state of possession.
00:12:09.000And so does a demon need to be invited in?
00:12:14.000Well, it does, but he doesn't need an explicit invitation.
00:12:20.000And in terms of a doorway, sin is the most obvious one.
00:12:25.000And in terms of sin, the sins that violate the first commandment, the sovereignty of God.
00:12:32.000So using the occult, for example, that would be the most common doorway along with sexual sins.
00:12:40.000So those two doorways are the most common.
00:12:44.000So one doesn't, you know, nobody wakes up in the morning and sets out, you know, hey, I'm going to go, I'm going to try to pick up three demons today.
00:12:51.000But through their activity, they're giving demons jurisdiction because they're not placing God, who is the reason for our existence, at the center of their lives.
00:13:03.000And so then once that portal or that doorway is opened, then they might unwittingly be captured by that unclean spirit.
00:13:14.000Ryan, about a minute and a half in this segment, what did you learn on that particular topic we're focusing on through this process that will be illuminating for our audience?
00:13:25.000I think it'll, rather than illuminating, I think it'll be frustrating.
00:13:28.000One of the things you'll find is that, you know, if this is all true, if there is a sovereign God who is somehow orchestrating these events, that you will find that some people engage in activities, which you might think are completely invitational to these spirits and these events and nothing will happen.
00:13:46.000And others will have things that would seem to be rather minor transgressions and can lead to this.
00:13:52.000So I think one of the mysteries that people have to wrestle with is that you can't predict this.
00:13:57.000There's definitely things you want to avoid based on this.
00:13:59.000I would say, you know, after listening to this, you might rethink some certain things.
00:14:06.000For example, Father said, you're talking about the occult.
00:14:08.000There are particular board games that are designed to invoke spirits.
00:14:11.000And perhaps you would choose to play Shoots and Ladders or Monopoly in lieu of occult invitational games.
00:14:16.000That would be a primary recommendation I would have after the number of stories that have come from deliberate invitations of spirits via board games and activities.
00:14:26.000I would set those aside and I wouldn't dabble with that anymore.
00:14:28.000Yeah, Ouija boards being obviously one of the more popularized versions of that.
00:14:34.000But unfortunately, the Tarot cards too.
00:14:36.000I mean, I know very little about this, but I'm just speaking off the top of my head that I can imagine.
00:14:40.000And I wonder if I'd love your thoughts of this.
00:14:42.000Psychedelics are also potential portals.
00:14:44.000I don't know if that's, if you find that to be true or not, Father, but that would be.
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00:17:09.000He stopped being able to return his clients' calls, just didn't have the energy to do so, stopped eating, wouldn't answer the phone, had lost somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 pounds.
00:17:22.000And so, finally, somebody had told him to come and see me.
00:18:54.000And Paul, in fact, goes a step further and he says, those who go visit a prostitute are bonding with the prostitute and whatever is inside that prostitute.
00:19:07.000And so what happened there was a transference of spirits.
00:19:12.000And so he was incredulous about this because he had been sexually active all of his adult life and nothing had ever happened.
00:19:22.000And this becomes the most difficult thing to convince people about.
00:19:26.000You know, like, hey, you know, I've done syn X or Act X many different times and nothing has happened.
00:19:36.000And all of a sudden, for this time, something did.
00:19:40.000So your explanation, Father, can't be the right one.
00:19:43.000And my analogy for that is, you know, you can leave and go away on a vacation on a holiday and you can leave all the doors and windows of your house open and you come back and, you know, your house is fine.
00:19:55.000But you can come back one time and there's a family of raccoons living in your house.
00:20:00.000And now good luck at trying to get them out, right?
00:20:03.000They are not going to appreciate you coming at them and shooing them out of what they have made their home.
00:20:10.000And so that's the same thing happens in the spiritual realm.
00:20:15.000And, you know, sadly with this individual, it took a long time to convince him of the truth of it.
00:20:20.000And finally, what convinced him was the fact that every time I began to pray over him, he would lose consciousness.
00:20:46.000And he is no one, with very, very few exceptions, no one who is possessed remembers the encounter of the possession because that consciousness is taken over.
00:21:00.000How were you able to successfully deliver him from that possession?
00:21:06.000Well, so I'm not the one that delivers.
00:21:10.000It's the victim that delivers himself with God's power.
00:21:13.000So the job of the exorcist, and I repeat this over and over again, I'm famous for these lines.
00:22:17.000But in the end, it was part of God's plan because through those repossessions, he came to understand and slowly come to a belief, you know, this priest might in fact be right.
00:22:30.000And so I'm going to try to do things his way exactly the way that he's saying so.
00:22:35.000And when he did that, he achieved a permanent liberation.
00:22:40.000And then he came into his faith and, in fact, became a youth minister at a church he began to attend.
00:22:47.000And from up to that point, he didn't practice any kind of faith at all.
00:22:52.000He was never raised with any kind of faith.
00:22:55.000And so, you know, he was living, this person was living the ethic that he was taught and the ethic given to him by his parents and by the world that, hey, you know, he didn't consider himself a bad person.
00:23:09.000And by the standards of the world, he wasn't.
00:23:48.000Well, as a savvy marketer, I will, of course, encourage listeners to download all of them for all the cases.
00:23:54.000But look, the fact is, we try to create something that is ecumenical in the sense that a lot of people will enjoy this.
00:24:01.000And if you're a fan of the conjuring or just the horror genre and you are interested in the manifestations, Father routinely is asked how accurate is the film The Exorcist.
00:24:10.000And he will say that many of the things you witness in that are exhibited in these cases.
00:24:15.000So there are board games that come alive, seemingly so.
00:24:19.000There are accounts of people with superhuman strength, strange languages, people not having reflections.
00:24:26.000Stuff that I recognize, and I come into this as a skeptic.
00:24:29.000I believe in a supernatural, but I remember the first time I heard these stories and I said, like, I'm listening to Father, and I go, this just, this is wow.
00:24:39.000And I think everyone will have that reaction.
00:24:40.000So there's something for everyone, but there are stories that just are very chilling.
00:24:45.000And again, there will be a frustration there because as humans, we want to understand and believe that we are absolutely in control of everything.
00:24:53.000And I think a take-home message from this is that we are not.
00:24:56.000And I would also want listeners to, you know, not, while we're trying to entertain, we're also trying to educate.
00:25:02.000I want people to draw their own conclusions.
00:25:06.000Every time you get on the 405 and there's bumper-to-bumper traffic, you know, is this the result of the demonic?
00:25:12.000Well, if it's at five o'clock, maybe, but you know, it's the reality is there, this is not something that is, we want people to preoccupy their lives with.
00:25:20.000But for a vast majority of the world, I think there is a reality of the supernatural that we in Western culture tend to maybe dismiss.
00:25:29.000And I found it very interesting that almost every culture that I researched, and I researched a lot and talked with many individuals who are credible, smart, they all have accounts and prescriptions for how to deal with spirits.
00:25:43.000So there's this consensus, I think, around the world that we are not just, you know, flesh and mind, but also soul.
00:25:49.000And there is a supernatural component to human beings that is explored in this show.
00:25:54.000And I hope that you will figure that out.
00:25:56.000So, Father, if you're comfortable answering this question, from what I understand, there can be a communication that you, the exorcist, have with the unclean spirit.
00:26:14.000So, if I understand correctly, in extreme cases, if you enter into an environment where someone is in need of an exorcism, the demon or the unclean spirit can speak through the body that they are inhabiting.
00:26:33.000And so, that's why, you know, one of the three classical signs of possession, which in the Catholic Church's manual, that a priest, there has to be at least one of these signs for him to proceed with the exorcism, is superhuman strength.
00:26:49.000So, a strength that would be far beyond the capacity of the individual.
00:26:54.000A 120-pound woman typically cannot pick up a 320-pound man and throw him 15 feet, right?
00:27:03.000So, you've established there, if that happens, you've established the presence of the supernatural.
00:27:08.000The same goes for knowledge of languages that the individual has never been taught.
00:27:14.000I don't mean a few words, I mean speaking with perfect grammar in complete sentences.
00:27:21.000And the third is knowledge of the occult, knowledge of what is hidden.
00:27:26.000So, if he can recite all of the items in that list in your pocket or know at this precise moment, event X is happening, something that could not possibly be guessed, then you've established the presence of the supernatural.
00:27:43.000And so, that power is coming from the demon.
00:27:49.000You know, an exorcism session can last, you know, on average, one to four hours.
00:27:55.000You have the individual typically struggling.
00:27:58.000So, you know, I have two very large men, one holding down each of the victim's arms on top of a very large, strong oak wooden table.
00:28:08.000You have another individual hugging the legs of that person, hugging the legs of the victim, in order to keep the person from flailing, from getting up, from running away.
00:28:22.000You have those individuals squeezing and holding for all that they're worth in that time period.
00:28:29.000At the end of it, at the end of, say, a four-hour session, the victim gets up and the victim is not tired at all because it wasn't the power of the victim.
00:28:38.000It wasn't the victim's own strength that was causing this.
00:29:48.000You know, our world is a very small world and we tend to know one another.
00:29:53.000I have never, nor has any exorcist that I know, has never heard a demon disrespect the name of Jesus.
00:30:02.000To state it differently, I have never heard a demon blaspheme, to use the name of Jesus disrespectfully, to use the two words God and then the word damn together.
00:30:14.000I have never, nor has any colleague of mine ever heard a demon blaspheme.
00:30:21.000So, when that happens in our lives, when that happens in a Hollywood movie, then we are going even beyond the realm of the demonic.
00:30:32.000So, let me ask you: why do you think that is then?
00:30:35.000Do you think that even the demon knows that they're not in charge, that they're not in control, that they actually fear the divine?
00:33:20.000And he wants you to come into the fullness of the dignity and identity for which he created you.
00:33:26.000And he is only too glad to bring you to that point.
00:33:29.000And unfortunately, there is an enemy who wants to keep you from that.
00:33:33.000And he forfeited his own birthright and he wants you to forfeit your own.
00:33:39.000And so what I would encourage you to do is to give up the sin in your life, to accept Jesus Christ in your heart as your Lord and Savior and start living following his commands.
00:33:49.000And in that, you will find your happiness both in this life and in the next.