The Charlie Kirk Show - February 10, 2023


The FBI is Spying on Catholics? with Michael Knowles


Episode Stats


Length

35 minutes

Words per minute

162.5641

Word count

5,706

Sentence count

414

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

7

sentences flagged

Hate speech

47

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has a new strategy to counter the growing influence of Traditional Catholics. They have a new tool in their tool box, and it's called the "Latin Mass" and they are using it to spy on, spy on and spy on Catholics.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today in the Charlie Kirk show, we talk a little bit about the Project Veritas deal, but we spend a lot of time on the Latin Mass story.
00:00:10.000 The Federal Bureau of Investigation is investigating traditional Catholics.
00:00:15.000 It's an extraordinary story. 0.99
00:00:17.000 Email me freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:19.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA Today at tpusa.com.
00:00:22.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:25.000 Start a high school chapter and start a college chapter at tpusa.com.
00:00:31.000 That is tpusa.com.
00:00:36.000 Support our program at charliekirk.com slash support.
00:00:40.000 Here we go.
00:00:40.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:42.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:00:43.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:00:45.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:00:49.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:00:52.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:00:53.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:00:54.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.
00:01:01.000 Turning point USA.
00:01:03.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:11.000 That's why we are here.
00:01:14.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at AndrewandTodd.com.
00:01:23.000 A bombshell story.
00:01:25.000 This should be one of the biggest stories in the country.
00:01:27.000 The Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI, our domestic federal national police force, has come out and they had a whole memo that has been leaked by the Richmond FBI, an entire memo titled This.
00:01:44.000 Interest of racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists in radical traditionalist Catholic ideology almost certainly presents new mitigation opportunities.
00:01:59.000 The document was published by former FBI agent Kyle Serafin, who obtained it from a whistleblower.
00:02:05.000 God bless this whistleblower for leaking it.
00:02:07.000 So to describe traditionalist Catholics as terrorists in waiting, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI document, relied on assessments from the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center.
00:02:20.000 That's the left-wing group whose entire reason for existence is to slander as many conservative groups as it can as hate groups and domestic terrorists.
00:02:31.000 The article also cites an article from the left-wing group salon.com.
00:02:36.000 A major piece of evidence that traditional Catholics are radical, according to the document, is the quote, increase in hostility towards abortion rights advocates on social media prior to the Dobbs decision.
00:02:51.000 So here is the National Police Force, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, that is writing a memo that they might have to mitigate people of faith.
00:03:01.000 Now, I am not a Catholic.
00:03:03.000 I'm not a traditional Catholic.
00:03:05.000 I'm an evangelical Protestant, Bible-believing Christian.
00:03:09.000 I have huge respect for Catholics, especially traditional Catholics.
00:03:13.000 Some of my closest friends are Catholics.
00:03:14.000 Some of my colleagues, Jack Pasobic, Catholic.
00:03:17.000 What is really going on here?
00:03:19.000 This is not about Catholicism.
00:03:20.000 This is not about traditional Catholics.
00:03:22.000 What's really going on here is a trend, a pattern, and a theme to go after the faithful. 0.91
00:03:30.000 And they need to do this.
00:03:31.000 You see, God, faith, and community are local and decentralized.
00:03:37.000 Strong decentralized communities who have freedom of speech, freedom of inquiry, and free decision-making capacity or agency cannot be governed by tyrants.
00:03:50.000 It's very hard to govern and to control the decentralized.
00:03:55.000 A local church, a local parish, a local community becomes harder to control.
00:04:02.000 Deploying the shock troops, the FBI, to potentially spy on, monitor, and surveill or infiltrate Catholic mass.
00:04:12.000 It's not just a violation of the Constitution, but we know the government doesn't care about the Constitution.
00:04:16.000 It goes to show who they really deem to be the threat in our country. 1.00
00:04:20.000 Is the threat the LGBTQ groups that are storming capitals? 0.78
00:04:26.000 Well, storming might be a little bit, I guess it is storming, flooding the capital in Oklahoma, which that same behavior they said was domestic terrorism and an insurrection. 0.82
00:04:37.000 Christianity, taking your Christianity seriously, is a threat to totalitarianism.
00:04:44.000 If every single day you go through a practice, you go through a set of rituals where you acknowledge that there is a higher power. 0.97
00:04:54.000 If you acknowledge Genesis 1-1, you are a threat to the regime.
00:04:59.000 If you acknowledge very simply, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.
00:05:05.000 If you actually believe that, then all of a sudden, by definition, it will be harder for you to accept tyranny.
00:05:15.000 Every major totalitarian government needed to make people question Genesis 1-1.
00:05:23.000 Now, you might have all sorts of different philosophical or religious beliefs in our audience, but you must acknowledge in some way, shape, or form, even if you don't believe Genesis 1-1, at least I want you to believe and be honest to yourself.
00:05:36.000 If a society ceases to believe that, what are the implications of that?
00:05:42.000 You see, secular totalitarianism necessitates people that do not have faith-filled communities.
00:05:52.000 This is the FBI, the federal Bureau of Investigation, that is now potentially going to spy on Catholics.
00:06:01.000 Now, they say, Oh, well, we've pulled the memo and we're no longer going to honor this.
00:06:07.000 So, the FBI has retracted the document.
00:06:09.000 But look, they're not sorry because of what they wrote.
00:06:13.000 They retracted it because they got caught.
00:06:16.000 One other thing about this document that's very telling is how routine it looks. 0.96
00:06:21.000 It's not one proposal or just one person where they say, Hey, I think these Catholics are a problem. 1.00
00:06:26.000 We should go after them. 1.00
00:06:27.000 The document claims to be based on local sources and liaison reporting. 0.99
00:06:33.000 The FBI is already monitoring Catholics, and this guy just wrote it up.
00:06:37.000 I have to wonder: is the FBI currently monitoring Jack Hibbs, my pastor, Rob McCoy?
00:06:45.000 Is the FBI currently monitoring other pastors across the country?
00:06:50.000 How many other pastors, how many other members of the faith community are they monitoring?
00:06:55.000 Are they monitoring me and this program?
00:06:57.000 Almost assuredly, almost a guarantee.
00:07:00.000 Are they trying to infiltrate churches?
00:07:02.000 How does this, how do you reconcile this with religious liberty and religious freedom?
00:07:08.000 Look, the FBI can't find enough real terrorists.
00:07:11.000 There is a supply and demand problem with terrorists in our country.
00:07:16.000 The same issue with supply and demand with racism.
00:07:19.000 You have all these institutions that are designed to try to find racism, and there is so little racism, it is so rare, it is so hard to find that you have to actually fake your own hate crimes to be able to satisfy the appetite and satisfy the demand to try to justify the belief that America is a racist country, which of course we are not.
00:07:39.000 The same thing is now with terrorism.
00:07:41.000 The entire infrastructure that was set up post-9/11 by Lady Graham and by Republicans and many other people to spy on Americans, create the Patriot Act, and FISA courts.
00:07:52.000 It turns out that America is actually a pretty decent country and a non-terroristic country at that.
00:07:58.000 It turns out that, but you got to give something for these people to do.
00:08:02.000 You got to give them some work.
00:08:03.000 So what do you tell the FBI to go do?
00:08:05.000 Go find the terrorists.
00:08:06.000 Well, you got to keep on diving deeper. 1.00
00:08:07.000 Well, I guess the traditional Catholics, I guess, might be terrorists because they go and pray the rosary.
00:08:13.000 And that is actually something that they cited in their documents.
00:08:19.000 Last August, the Atlantic labeled the rosary as an extremist symbol.
00:08:25.000 We laughed at it and we said, oh, that's insane. 0.81
00:08:28.000 And that's nonsense.
00:08:29.000 But then the FBI took that article and they cited it as evidence to then go and target Catholics.
00:08:37.000 This is a critical ingredient to try and turn America into a totalitarian country. 0.55
00:08:45.000 And isn't it amazing?
00:08:46.000 The president says he's Catholic.
00:08:49.000 The president currently says he is Catholic.
00:08:52.000 And maybe he is, maybe he is not.
00:08:53.000 I'll let fellow, you know, not my fellow Catholics, but my friends that are Catholics interpret that.
00:08:58.000 That a president who says he's Catholic, his FBI is doing this.
00:09:03.000 Has Joe Biden faced a single question on this topic?
00:09:07.000 Joe Biden, the Catholic, has he faced a single question on this?
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00:12:38.000 So I want to just build this out a little bit more for the faithful out there.
00:12:43.000 And even if you're not a person of faith, you know, we received an email here, Charlie, I love your show.
00:12:47.000 I'm an atheist, but this really concerns me.
00:12:50.000 It should concern you, regardless of your religious belief.
00:12:53.000 This is an issue of liberty and government overreach and separation of powers, but it is a fact that absent some form of a belief in a transcendent moral order and objective good, you are going to be more likely than not to slip into totalitarianism.
00:13:14.000 I was just with a group of Turning Point USA supporters this morning and wonderful people who generously support our work.
00:13:21.000 And someone said, Charlie, I don't understand why Americans do not want self-government anymore.
00:13:27.000 And the best answer I can give to that is: if you want self-government, then you first must have a priority in your own life to pursue virtue, to try to have, to lead a moral and ethical and good life.
00:13:44.000 It's easier to want to be controlled. 0.74
00:13:47.000 Religion and Christianity mainly, properly understood, is the opposite of that. 0.98
00:13:56.000 It's don't look to government for the answer to your solutions. 0.98
00:13:58.000 You look to God.
00:14:00.000 Or in other examples, it's to look to your rabbi or look to your priest.
00:14:05.000 And those are all great things.
00:14:07.000 Look, the Soviet Union used to make vodka very cheap to placate the masses.
00:14:13.000 They wanted to try to mass medicate society.
00:14:16.000 It's one of the reasons why I think the legalization of marijuana could potentially be so damaging, is that you do not want to massively medicate your society or put goggles on an entire generation via the metaverse.
00:14:29.000 But look, I do want to ask a certain question here, though.
00:14:33.000 So as an evangelical Christian, I don't obviously do confession.
00:14:36.000 It's not something that is a sacrament or even a practice in Protestant circles, but I fully get why Catholics do it and why they treasure it, why they value it.
00:14:48.000 I think it's really, really good.
00:14:49.000 I think it's really actually healthy if it's done properly.
00:14:53.000 And so, but here's a good, here's an interesting question: that in Catholicism, when you confess your sins to a priest, priest, the seal of the confessional is supposed to be ironclad.
00:15:05.000 A priest can never reveal what was confessed to him ever.
00:15:09.000 Now, again, in Soviet Russia, they used to have informants in the churches, and those informants included priests that would pass the intelligence to the government.
00:15:17.000 Here's a very simple question with a historical basis: Would the FBI do the same sort of thing here?
00:15:24.000 Is the FBI currently doing that?
00:15:26.000 Is the FBI currently working with priests as double agents?
00:15:31.000 This is a very simple question.
00:15:34.000 Are there currently priests in America that are leaking information of private confessionals to the FBI?
00:15:46.000 This impacts everybody, top down.
00:15:49.000 It's more than the overreach of government.
00:15:53.000 This is a complete sea change.
00:15:55.000 And let's just play this out. 0.84
00:15:57.000 Let's pretend that the FBI had a document that was revealed, that was leaked, that said that LGBTQ or gay groups might result in violence, and we need to spy on them.
00:16:13.000 We need to monitor them. 0.96
00:16:14.000 There would be riots in the streets.
00:16:16.000 It would be the number one news story on CNN and MSNBC. 0.61
00:16:20.000 However, we have allowed ourselves to be conditioned through mass propaganda, through network television, to kind of look at Christians as an easy punching bag. 0.90
00:16:34.000 Those are the religious people. 1.00
00:16:35.000 It's fine. 0.99
00:16:35.000 It's all right. 0.99
00:16:36.000 But the gay groups, you could do whatever. 0.94
00:16:38.000 They could do whatever they want.
00:16:39.000 Now, I'm not implying that LGBT groups are more likely to commit violence than other groups.
00:16:44.000 That's not what I'm saying.
00:16:45.000 But if a memo were to say that, the country would be in bedlam.
00:16:52.000 Here's a good question.
00:16:54.000 Where is the leaked FBI memo that says that pro-abortion groups are more likely to participate in violence?
00:17:00.000 That we do have evidence for.
00:17:02.000 They tried to kill Brett Kavanaugh, literally.
00:17:06.000 They were outside his home with rope to kidnap the family and torture Brett Kavanaugh.
00:17:12.000 And praise God, U.S. Marshals were able to intercede and arrest him.
00:17:17.000 How about the bombing of pro-life centers across the country?
00:17:20.000 So we know that's the case.
00:17:22.000 And yet the organizations and the nonprofits and now the community of Catholics that are pro-life that has now been relentlessly attacked by the actual terrorists are the ones that get monitored and spied on by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
00:17:46.000 This is not sustainable.
00:17:47.000 This is evil and this is wrong. 0.92
00:17:49.000 Where is the Catholic president exactly? 0.85
00:17:51.000 Where is the Catholic former Speaker of the House? 1.00
00:17:55.000 Probably supportive of this. 0.98
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00:18:42.000 Joining us now is our resident Vatican I Catholic.
00:18:46.000 Michael can tell all of our Protestant audience members what that means.
00:18:50.000 Michael, welcome to the program. 0.93
00:18:52.000 Look, if they were spying on you, I would totally understand that.
00:18:56.000 In fact, I would probably say, you know what?
00:18:58.000 I get it. 1.00
00:18:59.000 But I mean, looking after other traditional Catholics, this is out of line. 1.00
00:19:03.000 Michael, your thoughts?
00:19:05.000 I'll tell you, Charlie, I saw this report, and I know that many Catholics are dismayed that the federal government is apparently spying on parishes around the country, especially the parishes that celebrate the traditional Mass.
00:19:19.000 But the government's argument is that Catholics who go to this traditional Mass are radical, violent extremists. 1.00
00:19:28.000 And this is in fact true. 1.00
00:19:30.000 This is true, especially in one regard, because these masses have a lot of toddlers.
00:19:35.000 You know, the median age at these masses is about nine.
00:19:38.000 It's young, happy couples.
00:19:40.000 They've got lots and lots of kids.
00:19:41.000 And toddlers tend to be some of the most radical, violent, and extreme people on earth.
00:19:48.000 So I don't think the government is going to put them in orange suits and drag my little two-year-old off to Guantanamo Bay or something like that.
00:19:57.000 But I could see at least how they would get confused, why they have decided that they want to spy on all the people for just going to Mass.
00:20:05.000 So Michael, educate our audience.
00:20:07.000 What is traditional Catholicism, right?
00:20:10.000 Why is this something that is noteworthy for the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
00:20:15.000 From my understanding it, these are very devout Catholics that take their faith incredibly seriously, but they have to add this whole idea of Latin Mass.
00:20:24.000 Every person that I know that goes to Latin Mass, they're incredibly faithful and take their entire journey very seriously.
00:20:32.000 What is it about Latin Mass that the FBI is so concerned about?
00:20:36.000 Well, one of the misconceptions is that the Latin Mass is just the Mass in Latin.
00:20:40.000 That's not exactly it.
00:20:42.000 When people talk about the traditional Latin Mass, they're talking about the Mass that existed before the changes that came after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s and then into the 1970s.
00:20:52.000 This was the Mass that existed for pretty much 2,000 years.
00:20:55.000 It's the Mass of all the great saints, or at least most of the great saints.
00:20:59.000 And it is different in its orientation.
00:21:02.000 At that Mass, the priest tends to be facing the altar rather than facing the people.
00:21:07.000 There are more prayers.
00:21:08.000 The symbolism tends to be a little richer, I think, and deeper.
00:21:12.000 It's generally more reverent.
00:21:14.000 You don't get a lot of mariachi bands or electric guitars.
00:21:16.000 The people are a little bit more somber, more modest, and they're focused on this representation of Christ's sacrifice on the cross.
00:21:24.000 Now, the way that the FBI leaked memo presented this, they tried to make it seem like the traditional Latin Mass. 0.99
00:21:31.000 These are a bunch of breakaway, crazy, fringe, extreme Catholics. 0.93
00:21:36.000 That is not the case. 0.98
00:21:37.000 I attend the Latin Mass regularly, and the groups that we're talking about here, there's especially one group in particular listed in this memo, but there are a number of others, and there are diocesan masses.
00:21:51.000 These are people who are in full unity with the Vatican.
00:21:54.000 They're just regular old Catholics who prefer a more reverent and traditional form of the Mass.
00:22:01.000 And the federal government says this is a big problem.
00:22:03.000 And I think the reason for that is that since the changes that came after the Second Vatican Council, which were not mandated, by the way, by Vatican II, there is a distinction to be made here.
00:22:16.000 But after those changes, a lot of Catholics fell away from their faith or became confused by their faith, believe in many cases really central aspects of what's going on at the Mass or their faith.
00:22:28.000 And you see this bleed over into political issues.
00:22:31.000 So there are a lot of Catholics who will call themselves Catholics.
00:22:34.000 They'll support things like abortion.
00:22:36.000 That's Joe Biden. 0.69
00:22:37.000 That's Nancy Pelosi.
00:22:38.000 There are people who call themselves Catholics.
00:22:39.000 They support the radical redefinition of marriage to say that marriage can be between people other than a man and a woman. 0.76
00:22:45.000 And all these really crazy, radical things. 0.80
00:22:48.000 Well, when you look at the Catholics who prefer the traditional form of the Mass, that just doesn't happen.
00:22:56.000 These are people who are not generally confused by the changes that have come around in the last 50 years.
00:23:04.000 And so that's why the government's going after them, because you've got Joe Biden who is scandalously and flagrantly violating core aspects of his faith.
00:23:13.000 And the Catholics who prefer the traditional form of worship, they're a real obstacle to him presenting himself as a Catholic.
00:23:22.000 And then the other reason is an important phrase, we'll use Latin even if the feds are going to kick in my door for uttering this phrase. 0.92
00:23:30.000 But the phrase is lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi, meaning the way that we worship God is going to affect the way that we believe, the thoughts that we have, and it's going to affect the way that we live our lives.
00:23:45.000 So if you worship God in a way that's really irreverent and it's really just kind of focused on you and other people and your fashions and fun music or whatever, that's going to lead to certain forms of belief and certain way of life.
00:24:01.000 And if you worship God in a way that's reverent, it's really focused on God and it's in the way that God seems to want to be worshipped in the scripture, then that's going to lead to other kinds of beliefs about culture, about politics, about your country, about who you are.
00:24:16.000 And that's, I think, why the feds are so worried, because if we worship God in a respectful way, then we're not going to put up with the nonsense that these guys are foisting on our culture.
00:24:26.000 Well, yeah, that's exactly right. 0.92
00:24:27.000 And so if they want to try to achieve some form of secular totalitarianism, they need to try to infiltrate or stunt the growth, because from what I understand, Latin mass is actually growing in certain communities across the country. 0.59
00:24:39.000 It's not decreasing despite people's predictions, which were totally and terribly wrong.
00:24:44.000 But Michael, can you just comment a little bit on why the Leviathan looks at the faithful as a threat?
00:24:54.000 In every totalitarian communist country, they need to try to disconnect the people from a belief in a transcendent order.
00:25:01.000 Why?
00:25:02.000 The devil hates the church.
00:25:04.000 That's the basic way to put it.
00:25:06.000 And there are many reasons for this, but the central reason is that Christ's death on the cross and resurrection on the third day is the final most radical political revolution that there can possibly be.
00:25:19.000 Because it takes away from tyrants the last tool in their toolbox.
00:25:23.000 The last ultimate tool in the toolbox of the tyrants is that they will kill you if you don't do what they say.
00:25:30.000 And Christ's death on the cross and his resurrection say, who cares? 0.97
00:25:36.000 You can kill my body.
00:25:37.000 You cannot kill my soul. 0.98
00:25:39.000 I have the promise of life everlasting.
00:25:41.000 And this is why totalitarians despise the church.
00:25:45.000 This is true in the extreme far-right kind of pagan governments that you've seen in history.
00:25:52.000 This is especially pronounced in communist governments.
00:25:54.000 It's going on right now in Latin America.
00:25:56.000 It's going on.
00:25:57.000 You've saw it obviously for much of the 20th century in Russia and in China.
00:26:01.000 This is nothing new at all.
00:26:03.000 It's very dismaying to see this happen here in the United States because we tend to think of our country as a Christian country.
00:26:09.000 We like to think of us as the good guys.
00:26:12.000 But our government right now is in such a sorry state.
00:26:16.000 I think about our rulers, our rulers who are celebrating the slaughter of babies, our rulers who are demanding the castration of little children.
00:26:27.000 And these people say our number one priority where we've got to put our taxpayer resources behind infiltrating mass on Sunday to stop people from radically receiving the Eucharist and kneeling and praying and worshiping God.
00:26:45.000 It seems so absurd until you realize that when it comes to corrupt and wicked civil authorities, this has been the case for all of history.
00:26:56.000 So, Michael, I got to ask, though, where's our Catholic president speaking out against this or our former Speaker of the House who is Catholic? 0.57
00:27:05.000 This is perplexing to me.
00:27:06.000 Charlie, you know this very well.
00:27:08.000 Man cannot serve two masters.
00:27:11.000 And leftism is a jealous God.
00:27:14.000 Liberalism is an angry, jealous God.
00:27:17.000 And what is very sad for President Biden, Speaker Pelosi, a lot of other people, Andrew Cuomo, They're happy to tout their faith when they think that it will get them votes and make them seem normal and traditional.
00:27:33.000 But the moment that there is a disagreement between their leftism and their Catholicism, 100% of the time, these sorts of people choose leftism.
00:27:44.000 And it tells you where their true faith really lies.
00:27:48.000 Yeah, and it's not in the internal, the good, or the beautiful or the true.
00:27:53.000 Michael, this is extraordinary stuff, and it's been largely quiet from the media.
00:27:59.000 I wouldn't be surprised if they're also trying to infiltrate Protestant circles or spying on them.
00:28:04.000 We just so happen to know about this because of a single FBI whistleblower.
00:28:09.000 The document is not some one-off thing.
00:28:11.000 This was thoroughly researched.
00:28:13.000 They probably do have active plants and cells within Catholic churches.
00:28:17.000 I certainly hope there are no priests going along with it, but I almost guarantee, based on the way the document is written, this seems as if this has been a plan set in motion for quite some time, which really makes you think the line between religious liberty and freedom.
00:28:30.000 And we really do have a supply and demand problem with terrorism in our country.
00:28:35.000 America is actually a really decent country.
00:28:37.000 And the terrorists that are actually the ones bombing pro-life centers, they get seats at the table with the president. 0.66
00:28:45.000 And traditional Catholics are the ones that get penalized and terrorized. 1.00
00:28:49.000 Such a good point, Charlie. 1.00
00:28:51.000 And you're right.
00:28:52.000 I'm sure that our federal agent friends are going into all sorts of churches, some conservative Protestant churches too.
00:28:58.000 I, for one, welcome our friends from Quantico.
00:29:01.000 Anything that gets someone through the doors of a church and into the pew, fine by me.
00:29:04.000 It's a good opportunity for evangelization. 0.99
00:29:06.000 They're going after the traditional Catholics, as they call us here, especially because it's the oldest, it's the most intransigent form of the faith, and it therefore poses such an opposition to the modern world. 1.00
00:29:21.000 But they're going after any threat.
00:29:23.000 And when you see what the leftists consider to be their biggest threat, I think that can be a wonderful recommendation of truth, goodness, and beauty.
00:29:33.000 If Joe Biden and his jackbooted federal agents are going after something, that's probably a good sign that maybe you should look into it.
00:29:45.000 Michael, I want to play a piece of tape here.
00:29:48.000 It's very interesting.
00:29:50.000 We like to try to play tapes in Nicole Hannah Jones with some regularity because in some ways she is like the high priestess of the secular religion of anti-racism.
00:30:00.000 Let's play cut 11, please.
00:30:02.000 As you look at America, are people adjusting to, thinking about, being challenged by these ideas?
00:30:10.000 And are we moving in a positive direction or do you see something that's frozen?
00:30:15.000 What I would argue is that the arc of the universe doesn't bend one way or another.
00:30:20.000 We bend it.
00:30:21.000 As Americans, it's which country do we want to be?
00:30:24.000 Do we want to be the country that begins in 1619 with the practice of slavery?
00:30:29.000 Or do we want to be the country that was conceived in 1776 with the ideas of liberty and equality?
00:30:35.000 I think that is unknown.
00:30:37.000 I think we always are seeing the tension in the fight between these two halves.
00:30:42.000 Michael, there's a lot there.
00:30:45.000 When she says that the moral bending of the moral arc bends towards justice, you have a great shtick on that.
00:30:52.000 But just riff a little bit on why this is so important to refute Nicole Hanna-Jones.
00:30:58.000 And what is the fallacy here of this idea of the moral arc of history bending towards justice?
00:31:04.000 Well, what's amazing is that what she's saying, as is always the case with leftism, is that it's just a total perversion of Christianity.
00:31:13.000 First of all, just to start, that is exactly right.
00:31:16.000 That is totally correct.
00:31:18.000 Did you see?
00:31:18.000 She says, do we want America's founding to be 1619 or 1776?
00:31:23.000 She says it has nothing to do with objective reality.
00:31:25.000 It has nothing to do with a God outside of us.
00:31:27.000 It's just about whatever we want.
00:31:29.000 And the irony, of course, is her 1619 project sets out with the explicit goal of resetting the founding of America in 1619.
00:31:38.000 She seems to suggest in that interview, well, I'd prefer if it were 1776.
00:31:43.000 But no, she's saying it's just us who decides, and I'm going to decide 1619, and it's going to make our country seem really, really terrible.
00:31:49.000 But then you really see this perversion of Christianity here where she's talking about the moral arc of the universe.
00:31:55.000 Because liberals and progressives have used this line for a long time.
00:31:59.000 From Hegel.
00:32:00.000 That's right.
00:32:00.000 That's right.
00:32:01.000 And they do it because it perverts a real observation of Christianity.
00:32:08.000 And the observation of Christianity is that history matters.
00:32:11.000 And history is a line, not a circle.
00:32:14.000 And the incarnation of Jesus Christ is an actual pivotal moment in history.
00:32:19.000 This is central to writers like Dante Lighier.
00:32:22.000 It's central to so much of Western culture.
00:32:25.000 That we're not just kind of going around and being reincarnated.
00:32:28.000 We're going somewhere.
00:32:30.000 But what the progressives did is they stole this idea of history and they said, okay, the way history moves is it always just gets better and better and better because we become more rationalist, we become more secular, we become more scientifically advanced.
00:32:46.000 And so everything that happened in the past is bad.
00:32:49.000 The present is always a crisis.
00:32:50.000 And the future is going to be rosy.
00:32:52.000 Just give me all your money and all your power.
00:32:54.000 And that's how we're going to get there.
00:32:55.000 So it's not that it's totally different.
00:32:58.000 It's that it's this inversion of Christianity.
00:33:01.000 And then what she did is she took it even further.
00:33:03.000 She said, no, history, even progress, even progress, that's not real in any objective sense.
00:33:11.000 History is just whatever we want it to be.
00:33:14.000 And I know George Orwell is always invoked by conservatives, probably a little bit too much, but this is a great example of an Orwellian prediction coming true, which is that she's saying, we can rewrite the history books.
00:33:27.000 Every historical, it's just whatever we want it to be.
00:33:31.000 And what the Christian would say to that is, no, actually, we have free will.
00:33:36.000 We craft our world as best as we can, but there is an overarching providence to the universe.
00:33:43.000 God has actually ordered all things from the beginning of time, ultimately, until the end of the age.
00:33:48.000 And what Nicole Hannah Jones does is she falls into the same lie that you see in the Garden of Eden.
00:33:52.000 You see Whitaker Chambers, a former communist, say this was the central lie of communism, that it all just goes back to that primal evil, which is men believing that we shall be as gods.
00:34:03.000 And she's saying, yes, you are gods.
00:34:05.000 This is what Yuval Harari says, the author of Sapiens.
00:34:09.000 This is what the World Economic Forum is telling us.
00:34:11.000 I mean, this is what elites have told us from time immemorial.
00:34:14.000 Ye shall be as gods.
00:34:15.000 And I tell you, I would much rather live in a world where God is God than a world in which Nicole Hannah Jones is God.
00:34:22.000 Yeah, so Nicole Hannah Jones, in a single sentence, will say, I'm so oppressed.
00:34:26.000 I'm also God.
00:34:27.000 Oh, really?
00:34:27.000 That's interesting.
00:34:28.000 How does that work?
00:34:29.000 So you're super oppressed, and you also have godlike powers.
00:34:35.000 Michael, that was so deep and so helpful.
00:34:37.000 I hope everyone listens to that or relistens to it back on our podcast.
00:34:40.000 It had a lot of wisdom there.
00:34:42.000 We don't have time to explore it.
00:34:43.000 Michael, thank you.
00:34:44.000 And check out Michael's book that has no words in it.
00:34:47.000 I'm sure it will make your day.
00:34:48.000 Thank you, Michael.
00:34:49.000 Great to see you, Charlie.
00:34:52.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:34:54.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:34:57.000 Thank you so much for listening, and God bless.
00:35:02.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.