Breaking News Out of Georgia: Can Fannie Willis Stay on the Case? We dive into it with a subject matter expert. Also, the electoral math is changing in front of our eyes as Joe Biden tells us his strategy.
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00:01:52.000It is important because it reminds us that not all judges are legal savants.
00:01:59.000What you have in this instance is pretty shocking for those of us who've been in front of these kinds of judges before with these kinds of issues that have been paraded out.
00:02:08.000You have a district attorney who the judge finds has the appearance of a conflict.
00:02:14.000And that's significant because it doesn't matter if it's an actual conflict or it's an appearance of conflict.
00:02:23.000So he makes that finding along with indicating that he believes that they may have compromised themselves on the stand, meaning they may have perjured themselves or lied.
00:02:32.000He also acknowledges that there may have been amounts of money that inappropriately went to Fannie Willis.
00:02:40.000So all of that should lead any sound legal mind to the conclusion that the one that should be ruled against is the one that has that high office and that authority, the county attorney.
00:02:55.000But instead, what he does is he indicates that she could stay on the case, but she would have to remove Nate Wade, her lover boyfriend, who's also prosecuting the case.
00:03:05.000It's shocking to see Charlie, the wrangling and the wringing of hands that a judge is doing when it's staring him in the face.
00:03:14.000You know, not only unethical behavior, but now it appears even criminal behavior that he acknowledges.
00:03:20.000Yeah, I just, it kind of leaves me speechless.
00:03:24.000And there's, I have just so many questions.
00:03:28.000So I guess lying under oath is cool if you're a prosecutor now.
00:03:31.000Is that the message that this judge is sending to the rest of the country?
00:03:34.000Well, the one thing, you know, you're right, Charlie, but the one thing that really stands out is how bad prosecutors who are compromised are when they're on the stand.
00:04:09.000Does this open it up for appeals, for challenges?
00:04:12.000I mean, at the very least, no one and no decent person in Georgia or across the country is going to take what this court does seriously.
00:04:19.000I mean, after this just multiple weeks of Fannie Willis and on the stand and Nathan Wade, I mean, the judge said this: reasonable questions about whether the DA and her hand-selected lead special assistant D8 testified untruthfully.
00:04:49.000He allowed the defense team to go into it and to expose that they lied at the very least about when the affair started, which was an important factor because it showed that they were compromised before they launched the case against Donald Trump.
00:05:11.000And when he says, you know, questionable, you know, perhaps he's being nice because he's a former donor to her campaign and worked in that office.
00:05:20.000But the reality is that should be a beacon call for the Attorney General and the State Bar of Georgia to investigate both individuals for perjury.
00:05:31.000And so just, can you just riff on this for a second?
00:06:42.000Charlie, the justice system in this country is broken.
00:06:45.000You know, it's and it's not to put the plug in there for my organization, but I'm executive director.
00:06:52.000I'm executive director of Riot on Crime.
00:06:54.000And our purpose is to fix the broken justice system in this country and to do so with conservative principles based on data and research and not based on politics because you're seeing it play out.
00:07:08.000And you did an excellent job of highlighting just how absurd it is.
00:07:12.000And we're watching it in multiple cases across the country.
00:07:15.000But let's back up and look at this particular case.
00:07:18.000You have a county attorney that has very high ethical standards and high legal standards, not above and beyond just what an ordinary lawyer that appears in that courtroom does.
00:07:52.000They should first remove themselves, but Fanny wasn't going to do that.
00:07:55.000And if they don't, the court removes them and a different county or the attorney general would then take the case, review it, and then decide if they wanted to pursue it.
00:08:06.000But that didn't happen here because judges in this country are willing to set aside the law and facts in order to achieve a political result rather than what the legal result should be.
00:08:20.000And that is when your justice system fails.
00:08:41.000Yeah, it's a perfect example of the public not realizing that we have ceded power to judges and prosecutors in this country without accountability and without transparency.
00:10:12.000Okay, Kirk fans, I need you to stop and pay attention to this.
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00:12:07.000So yesterday, we were off the program.
00:12:10.000Thank you, Producer Andrew, for hosting.
00:12:12.000It's going to happen just a couple more times this spring where we do these during the day campus events, which honestly reach even more people and we reach millions of people online.
00:12:22.000And it's just amazing to be able to have these in-depth conversations.
00:12:36.000We used to get 30 or 40 or maybe 50 people that would come.
00:12:39.000Now we're getting three, four, 500 people and thousands of students if you count all the passersbys because kids go to class and they come and they listen and they go.
00:12:47.000And so we call this the change my mind kind of programming.
00:12:51.000And that's why I have to take off radio every so often because they happen during the day, which is most of the kind of traffic between 12 and 2.
00:13:10.000This is at Cal State Fullerton of all places.
00:13:14.000And so, you know, I talk for over two hours.
00:13:16.000We had some great dialogue, some great discussions, some disagreement.
00:13:21.000And I go and I start to, you know, take pictures of everybody.
00:13:23.000And I start to all of a sudden notice, like, wow, 60 or 70% of the people that are coming up for pictures are Latino, Hispanic, Vietnamese.
00:13:38.000I mean, I'm talking about it was hard to find a white person that wanted to come up and take a picture.
00:13:43.000I mean, there were a couple people, but it was a majority, minority support crowd.
00:13:50.000And their enthusiasm and their energy, I'm talking about black and South Asian and Cambodian and specifically Nicaraguan and Mexican and Honduran.
00:14:02.000And I speak very bluntly about the immigration issue.
00:14:05.000In fact, one of the Honduran Nicaraguan Americans, formerly of those countries, he said, look, my family came here legally.
00:14:14.000Number one, he says, I don't like when people loop me into the category of these illegal squatter jumpers.
00:14:44.000This is data set after data set, coupled with my on-the-ground anecdotal experience that there is something profound happening in the Hispanic community.
00:15:01.000Trump has found new support among Latinos who work in law enforcement around, along the Mexican border.
00:15:07.000Cuban Americans in Florida averse to policies they view as approaching socialism.
00:15:11.000Evangelical Christians attracted to Christian nationalism.
00:15:15.000And second and third generation U.S.-born Latinos who are more likely to identify with and vote like their white peers.
00:15:23.000I got to tell you, everything that the Koch brothers, everything that the Chamber of Commerce, that the Karl Roves and the moderate Republicans told us about this group of voters is wrong.
00:15:33.000They said you have to go weak on immigration.
00:15:35.000You have to go weak on social issues and they're going to come your way.
00:16:10.000Latino voters are far more aware of what happens when you embrace policies that are insane because they come from countries that have been championing these insane policies for the last 30 or 40 years.
00:16:24.000The riots in 2020, we call it Floyd-Palooza, were a lot closer to their homes than white liberals.
00:16:33.000Bad economic policies hit them immediately.
00:16:38.000Immigration and the massive invasion of our country.
00:16:41.000And I got to tell you, building the wall and deporting foreigners is a winning issue with Latinos, with Hispanics.
00:16:50.000The fight for the presidency has expanded in recent elections from battlegrounds and the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt.
00:16:56.000Joe Biden relied on victories in Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada to win in 2020.
00:16:59.000This year, both parties are investing heavily in those states to persuade the large number of Hispanic voters they believe are up for grabs.
00:17:05.000If this is even a little bit true and Donald Trump does three or four points better, by the way, polling is showing he's doing 10 points better, then Arizona is going to be just fine.
00:17:14.000It's going to all be about the Rust Belt.
00:17:16.000And we're going to focus on that later in the hour because Joe Biden leaked a story yesterday through Bloomberg.
00:17:21.000He's going to go for, he's actually going to go for states that are some of the whitest battleground states.
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00:18:44.000Vernon, thank you for taking the time.
00:18:45.000Vernon, you know Georgia, the Georgia landscape very, very well.
00:18:50.000Your reaction to this ruling from Judge McAfee.
00:18:53.000Well, obviously, I think a lot of us are not so much disappointed, but cannot believe that there was not enough compelling evidence that it would be a conflict of interest.
00:19:01.000If the judge can disqualify Wade, then clearly you have to disqualify Fannie Willis because they were two peas in the pot.
00:19:10.000They were Mutt and Jeff or Mutt and Jane, however you want to call it.
00:19:13.000But the fact of it is, Charlie, her problems, her troubles are yet to come.
00:19:19.000When you look at what the state commission is going to be doing, someone's filed a complaint against the state bar.
00:19:24.000It sort of reminds me of a story when the dog wanted to cross the railroad track and went across the track and the train cut off a piece of his tail.
00:19:33.000Well, the dog started coming back, smelling a little piece of his tail and got hit by the train again and lost his head.
00:19:39.000So the moral of the story is, why worry about a little piece of tail that it costs you your head?
00:19:46.000So Vernon, I want you to talk about SB 332 that Governor Kemp just signed.
00:19:52.000He signed this bill that empowers a panel created by Georgia lawmakers to discipline and potentially remove rogue state prosecutors.
00:20:00.000Fulton County DA Fannie Willis and Athens Clark County DA Deborah Gonzalez are rumored targets, though Governor Kemp and others are emphasizing crime as the main reason for the bill.
00:20:10.000Quote, when out of touch, prosecutors put politics over public safety, the community suffers, and people and property are put at risk.
00:20:18.000Do you think this potentially could be used regarding Fannie Willis?
00:20:23.000Well, the basis of this bill, Charlie, is that there's been a number of prosecutors across this country that have refused to prosecute groups of people based on their political affiliation.
00:20:36.000And it's wrong because criminals are literally getting away.
00:20:39.000I think this piece of legislation allows the state of Georgia for the first time, because they were not able to do it in the past, or I should say able to do it in the past, to hold a district attorney accountable.
00:20:49.000Before, there was no recourse when a district attorney committed some unbecoming behavior.
00:20:56.000So this allows an organization or a panel, I should say, to review what a district attorney is doing.
00:21:03.000And if they're of any conduct unbecoming, they can be removed from office or they can have some other disciplinary actions towards them.
00:21:35.000Is Fannie Willis continuing on, makes the furtherance of this legal crusade delegitimate?
00:21:44.000What is your thoughts on the political implications of this?
00:21:48.000Politically, she's going to have to, and legally, she's going to have to drop Wade like a hot potato.
00:21:54.000Secondly, she's going to, she realizes there's a certain faction that's supporting her that want her to get in there and go and prosecute Trump.
00:22:02.000There's another group that there's no way in the world that she can be untainted.
00:22:06.000There's not going to be a pool, a jury, a jury pool that cannot have at least one or two people on there saying, wait a minute, this is political.
00:22:14.000So she doesn't get the verdict she's seeking.
00:23:00.000Also, yes, there's a fraction of black voters who are supporting Fannie Willis, but there's a faction of white liberal voters that's supporting her as well.
00:23:11.000Those hardcore left radical Donald Trump members, I mean, I should say Joe Biden groupies, they don't care.
00:23:21.000They don't care about what's constitutional or not.
00:23:23.000They just want to get rid of Donald Trump.
00:23:25.000But then on the other hand, you have another faction of people that just, that there's no way in the world they will sit around and allow this to happen without putting pressure on Fonnie Willis, either through that committee that's going to be holding hearings as well as more complaints coming against her towards the bar.
00:23:43.000I don't think the needle, Charlie, has been moved on either end.
00:23:47.000Everybody who's for Trump is still for Trump.
00:23:49.000Those who are against Trump are against him.
00:23:52.000Those who are for Fanny, they're still with Fanny.
00:23:55.000But at the end of the day, it's such a mixed bag.
00:23:57.000Nobody can walk away, though, not feeling that this case is tainted and that the credibility of Fanny Willis has been shot.
00:24:05.000Whether you support her or not, they just won't admit it publicly, but privately, they're admitting that it looks really, really bad for Fanny.
00:24:12.000Yeah, in 2020, Georgia was narrowly decided by 10,000 votes.
00:24:17.000What needs to happen on the ground to ensure a Trump victory in Georgia and what is currently happening in Georgia?
00:24:23.000Charlie, it has to be an in-your-face campaign, door-to-door, precinct to precinct, voter to voter.
00:24:30.000And there's got to be an emphasis, Charlie, on getting votes out early, getting people to the polls to vote early, whether through mail or actually going down to the designated areas to vote.
00:24:42.000You know, as former county executive, I had to run an election office.
00:25:01.000Because Donald Trump is having a significant impact in the black and Latino community.
00:25:06.000And now you can walk into a barbershop where most of the patrons are black or walk into a nail salon or walk into any work environment, both blue collar or white collar.
00:25:16.000And you have blacks who are saying, wait a minute, I can't go with Biden this time, or I'm going back with Trump again because things were better on the Trump.
00:26:39.000But if he keeps her on, then he's determined they did not lie, or maybe she didn't lie, and that the timeline that was presented in court is accurate.
00:26:54.000You know, again, as we discussed here two weeks ago, when we heard the testimony from Nathan Wade's law partner, it did not pass the smell test.
00:27:03.000He had spoken very emphatically and clearly about the relationship starting in 2019.
00:27:09.000The statements made by Wade and Willis contradict that.
00:27:13.000And there is a strong sense that they perjured themselves in that.
00:27:18.000Fanny Willis, Vernon, has been playing the race card.
00:27:21.000She went to a local church and played the race card.
00:27:25.000What is your reaction to her not defending herself, but saying that it's racist to criticize her or to attack her?
00:27:33.000Well, see, Charlie, this is where that commission comes in.
00:27:35.000And this is where the state bar comes in.
00:27:37.000The rules that govern lawyers in the state of Georgia, according to the state bar, are somewhat different, a lot different in many cases from what's going on in these legal proceedings in court.
00:27:48.000So, what you're going to see happen, she's going to be held to a different standard.
00:27:52.000And she's already violated some barbed rules.
00:27:55.000And so, when that pursues down that particular avenue, that's where her law license is going to be in jeopardy.
00:28:02.000And the other thing, too, you know, the judge didn't say that Fanny didn't lie.
00:28:06.000I think the judge literally punted the ball, and it's a gift unwrapped to the legal team for all the defendants to appeal this.
00:28:15.000It makes it easy to appeal because there's too many doors you can go through of evidence that it was a conflict of interest, where there was purgery, where they sought to compel a lot of information from coming out.
00:28:28.000And so, again, that's why I said her troubles have just begun.
00:28:32.000She's going to lose her head because of a little bit of tail.
00:28:34.000I'm telling you, are you ready to lose weight, but not sure where to start?
00:28:55.000They know that 90% of permanent change comes from the mind, and they work on eliminating the reason you gain this weight in the first place.
00:29:00.000There's no shortcuts, pills, or injections, just solid science-based nutrition and behavior change.
00:29:05.000And finally, probably most importantly, I lost 30 pounds.
00:30:34.000By the way, if you listen to that episode of Rogan and Lindsay, all of a sudden James Lindsay's quoting scripture: Matthew 7, Matthew 10, wise as serpent, as gentle as doves.
00:32:14.000If I was Joe Biden, I would abandon Arizona.
00:32:16.000I would abandon Georgia and I would go all in on the three most winnable states that have the loosest voting laws, that also have declining populations where a lot of conservatives are leaving these states, where you can run up the score on college campuses, run up the score in urban centers.
00:32:35.000So we thought of that analytically, and it turns out we were onto something, not just onto something.
00:33:11.000The muscular class was ascendant, and Hillary Clinton spent more time in San Francisco and New York running national advertising.
00:33:22.000And they have tried to rebuild the blue wall.
00:33:26.000In 2020, Joe Biden, I put in air quotes, won all three.
00:33:30.000But here's the math of where we're headed.
00:33:34.000If Donald Trump wins Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada, he would have to then win the one pesky electoral vote in Omaha, Nebraska.
00:33:44.000Nebraska appropriates their electoral votes based on congressional district, not based on the winner-take-all of the entire state.
00:33:51.000Donald Trump will struggle to win the Omaha congressional district electoral vote.
00:33:56.000So therefore, Nevada does you basically nothing unless you also win New Hampshire.
00:34:01.000Now, mind you, if, and I know this math just from memory, because this is how seriously we take it at turning point, at turning point action, Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, plus the one congressional seat in Nebraska would then bring us to a 269 to 269 electoral tie, and it would be thrown to the House of Representatives where each state would get one vote, and Donald Trump would then probably become president, but there's no guarantee there could be some coalition government formed.
00:34:30.000The better path is that Donald Trump wins Arizona, Donald Trump wins Georgia, and then he needs to win one out of the three of the Rust Belt states.
00:34:40.000It bothers me because if Nevada just had one more electoral vote, you could actually just go heavy on Sunbelt and forget the industrial belt.