The Charlie Kirk Show - The Five Fatal Flaws of Transgender Ideology with Frank Turek

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Tana Charlie Kirk Show, a full episode with the very smart and terrific Frank Turek from Cross Examined.

00:00:07.000 He has a book that you should get now in its third edition, correct but not politically correct.

00:00:11.000 So check it out.

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00:00:36.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:37.000 Here we go.

00:00:38.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:40.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:42.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:46.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:49.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:50.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:51.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:59.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:08.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:11.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.

00:01:20.000 Joining us now is one of my favorite guests, author of Correct, Not Politically Correct, and also cross-examined, amongst many other things, Frank Turek, who has an important piece we're going to talk about this hour, Five Fatal Flaws in the Transgender Ideology.

00:01:34.000 Frank, welcome back to the program.

00:01:36.000 Charlie, great being with you, sir.

00:01:38.000 How are you?

00:01:39.000 I'm doing very well.

00:01:40.000 Thank you.

00:01:41.000 So walk us through this piece, Frank, and take as much time as you need. 0.98

00:01:43.000 Five fatal flaws in transgender ideology. 1.00

00:01:46.000 Frank, walk us through it.

00:01:48.000 Yeah, the first one, Charlie, is that the design of the human body proves there's only two genders. 0.97

00:01:53.000 Because look, a human being can only produce either a sperm or an egg.

00:02:00.000 There's no third category, Charlie.

00:02:03.000 And if, you know, the left's always saying, well, there's 57 genders or whatever they are.

00:02:08.000 Well, people can't produce 57 different reproductive outcomes.

00:02:12.000 Okay. 0.93

00:02:13.000 They can only produce a sperm or an egg.

00:02:15.000 And those that can't produce any one of those outcomes, a sperm or an egg, that represents an incapacity, not a third capacity.

00:02:25.000 So the design of the body, I think, proves beyond any shadow of a doubt, there's only two genders, Charlie. 1.00

00:02:31.000 Yeah, and even more specifically, two sexes.

00:02:33.000 So let's go to the next second, which is transgenderism must presuppose fixed genders. 0.96

00:02:38.000 What do you mean by that?

00:02:39.000 Yeah, this is what so many people seem to miss is on one hand, the trans activists, the leftists are trying to say there's all these different genders and gender is completely fluid.

00:02:54.000 On the other hand, they have to unwittingly presuppose there's only two genders.

00:02:59.000 Why?

00:02:59.000 Because if I'm a man and I think I'm a woman, I have to some idea what a man is and some idea what a woman is to know that I have this mismatch between my psychology and my biology.

00:03:11.000 If there was no fixed gender known as a man and no fixed gender known as a woman, I would have no way of knowing I had gender dysphoria.

00:03:20.000 Also, if I tried to make the so-called transition from being a man to being a woman, which as we'll see here in a minute, is actually physically impossible.

00:03:28.000 But if I wanted to try and do that, I would have to have some idea of what a man is and some idea of what a woman is to even know that I had this gender dysphoria and that I could try and make the transition.

00:03:41.000 So on one hand, they're trying to say there's all these different genders, it's completely fluid.

00:03:44.000 On the other hand, they have to presuppose there's only two fixed genders to make transgenderism even possible.

00:03:52.000 And that's a great segue to a third point, which is you could change your mind, but not your biology.

00:03:59.000 Yeah, before I get there, let me say one other thing about this, Charlie, because there's a bit of a civil war in the so-called LGBTQ community, which isn't really a community anymore.

00:04:13.000 Because Charlie, if the Ts get their way that there are no fixed genders, the L's, the Bs, and the Gs don't exist because they rely on fixed genders. 0.95

00:04:26.000 I mean, how can you be lesbian, gay, or bisexual if genders aren't fixed? 0.98

00:04:29.000 They rely on fixed genders. 0.92

00:04:31.000 And of course, as you know, Charlie, the feminists aren't too happy with this either because if there are no fixed genders, there are no women. 1.00

00:04:40.000 And if there are no women, there are no women's rights. 0.94

00:04:44.000 And this, of course, is why you have strange bedfellows now.

00:04:47.000 You have J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series, who is probably personally politically liberal.

00:04:54.000 But Charlie, she's come out and saying, you're erasing women.

00:04:58.000 You're erasing women by this ideology.

00:05:00.000 And although she's been called a TERF, a transgender radical feminist or something, she's actually standing by the principle that if the transgender activists get their way, Charlie, they've erased women and they've also erased lesbian, gay, and bisexual in terms of their identity. 0.53

00:05:20.000 And by the way, this is why Matt Walsh's brilliant documentary, What is a Woman, they have so many of these academic leftists completely flummoxed by the question, Charlie.

00:05:31.000 What is a woman?

00:05:32.000 Because a woman, because when he asked them the question, if they define a woman as a biological female, then transgender ideology is false.

00:05:41.000 If they refuse to answer, which is what they tend to do and what they did on his documentary, then transgenderism isn't possible. 0.76

00:05:48.000 Because who is transitioning to what and whatever happened to women's rights if you don't even know what a woman is? 0.87

00:05:55.000 They can't define that because they'll say, well, a woman is anyone who wants to be a woman. 0.86

00:05:59.000 No, but what is the thing that you say anybody can be?

00:06:01.000 So you could change your mind, but you can't change your biology.

00:06:08.000 Talk about this, Frank.

00:06:09.000 And I would go even a step further, which is my new perspective, which is gender is a word that has been mainstreamed. 1.00

00:06:16.000 There's two sexes. 0.82

00:06:18.000 We totally agree, man and woman.

00:06:20.000 I don't even know if there's, I don't even think we have to admit there's genders.

00:06:24.000 I think we use them interchangeably, but you can change your mind, but not your biology.

00:06:30.000 What do you mean by that?

00:06:32.000 Well, in fact, you've even said this.

00:06:34.000 I've heard you say it at some of the college campuses.

00:06:36.000 You use the analogy of anorexia, which is what Dr. Paul McHugh, a psychiatrist at John Hopkins University, first revealed.

00:06:45.000 He said, transgenderism, affirming someone in their transgender, so-called gender identity is like affirming an anorexic that they're overweight. 0.76

00:06:53.000 They're not overweight.

00:06:54.000 Someone who has a mismatch between their mind and their biology needs to get their mind fixed, not their biology.

00:07:02.000 Their biology is what it is. 0.99

00:07:05.000 So if you have a woman who thinks she's overweight, but she's really anorexic, you would not help that woman by saying, honey, let me get you some liposuction, right? 0.98

00:07:14.000 I mean, you would say, no, I'm sorry, dear, your mind is telling you tricks.

00:07:20.000 You're dangerously underweight.

00:07:22.000 We need to get you nutrition.

00:07:24.000 And you wouldn't tell a transabled person, this is kind of a new thing out there, where people are saying, you know, I really, in my mind, am disabled, but all my limbs work, but you cut off my right arm for me.

00:07:34.000 No, you wouldn't say, yeah, let me do that.

00:07:36.000 You'd say, no, you got a problem in your mind.

00:07:39.000 And Charlie, if your beautiful daughter at one point said, you know, I'm a mermaid, dad, you wouldn't take her off the coast and drop her in the ocean, would you?

00:07:47.000 I mean, you would say, dear, you're suffering a delusion here.

00:07:52.000 This is the problem.

00:07:53.000 You can change your mind, but you can't change your biology.

00:07:56.000 You can't change your 100 trillion cells.

00:07:58.000 You can't change your DNA.

00:08:00.000 And by the way, Charlie, one of the reasons I appreciate your work and TPUSA and TPUSA faith is because you're trying to get particularly pastors and Christians to speak up for the truth.

00:08:14.000 But Charlie, let me tell you this.

00:08:16.000 People like Bill Maher and people like Richard Dawkins, probably the most famous atheist in the world today, these men, unfortunately, have more courage than most American pastors.

00:08:29.000 Bill Maher has come out and said, look, you know, kids go through phases.

00:08:34.000 You know, if every kid knew what he wanted to be when he was eight, the world would be filled with cowboys and princesses, but they're not.

00:08:40.000 In fact, he said, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a pirate.

00:08:44.000 Thank God nobody took me seriously and took me for peg leg and eye removal surgery.

00:08:44.000 That's true.

00:08:49.000 And then Richard Dawkins, Charlie, recently came out and said, I'm sorry, there's only two genders.

00:08:55.000 It's science.

00:08:56.000 Get over it.

00:08:58.000 I mean, he has more courage and more sense to speak on this issue than most American pastors, Charlie.

00:09:05.000 We got a lot of work to do.

00:09:06.000 We got a lot of work to do to try and get people and Christians to try and speak up on this issue.

00:09:11.000 We have to overwhelm the system.

00:09:12.000 Look, they can fire one person who speaks out.

00:09:15.000 They can't do it to 100,000.

00:09:16.000 They can't do it to a million. 0.80

00:09:18.000 Most people find this ridiculous.

00:09:20.000 And most people haven't even heard the logical arguments. 0.93

00:09:23.000 They think, oh, wow, 13-year-old, they're going to kill themselves if they don't get benzodiazepines in addition to hormone blockers with Lupron.

00:09:34.000 No, no, no, no.

00:09:35.000 There's a rational way to think about this.

00:09:37.000 And you went through it beautifully, Frank.

00:09:39.000 And then most people know this is wrong.

00:09:44.000 Hey, everybody.

00:09:44.000 Look, if you're pro-life, listen carefully.

00:09:47.000 It's important to advocate for pro-life laws.

00:09:49.000 I'm all in favor of that.

00:09:50.000 Pro-life legislation, supporting pro-life candidates.

00:09:53.000 But you have to simultaneously do the other thing.

00:09:56.000 I believe you actually have an obligation, which is to support women in need and babies in need that are at risk of being aborted.

00:10:04.000 Look, when you introduce a girl to her baby by providing an ultrasound, you're giving her the truth at the most critical and important time in her life.

00:10:12.000 85% of the time when they actually see the baby, they choose life.

00:10:18.000 Now, mind you, pre-born provides resources.

00:10:21.000 They provide diapers, baby clothes.

00:10:24.000 And I encourage you, if you're pro-life, to pray about this, are you giving money to actually support the unborn if you are voting for pro-life?

00:10:30.000 Look, $140 gives five mothers a free ultrasound and saves babies.

00:10:34.000 $280 can save 10 babies, and just $28 a month can save a baby a month for less than a dollar a day.

00:10:39.000 I'm a donor to this organization, and you should be too.

00:10:42.000 A $15,000 gift will provide an ultrasound machine that will save lives for years to come.

00:10:47.000 Whether you want to save one baby or five or hundreds, this opportunity is just a phone call or click away.

00:10:53.000 I think the world of pre-born, I give money financially.

00:10:56.000 And every one of you that are pro-life, I believe you have a duty and an obligation to go to preborn.org slash Kirk and give as you can, give your best gift, or call 833-850-2229.

00:11:09.000 That is 833-850-BABY.

00:11:12.000 Go to preborn.org slash Kirk.

00:11:14.000 That is preborn.org slash Kirk.

00:11:18.000 So Frank, build out number three.

00:11:20.000 I know we touched on it briefly here, but number three here, you could change your mind, not your biology, which then kind of segues to number four.

00:11:29.000 Sex is not assigned at birth.

00:11:31.000 And I do want to pick up the pastor thing, but let's start with number four.

00:11:34.000 Sex is not assigned at birth.

00:11:36.000 Yeah, for transgender advocates to succeed, Charlie, they got to get people to believe what they know is really the unbelievable idea that sex is assigned at birth rather than discovered.

00:11:46.000 We all know it's discovered.

00:11:47.000 I mean, when a baby pops out of the womb, we don't, the doctor doesn't go, gee, I wonder what this thing is, right?

00:11:53.000 We immediately know it's either a boy or a girl.

00:11:55.000 It's quite obvious.

00:11:57.000 And by the way, Charlie, as you know, I do a lot of work in Christian apologetics.

00:12:01.000 I wrote a book called I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist.

00:12:04.000 And when I go to a college campus, I'm giving more of the evidence that Christianity is true, that God does exist.

00:12:11.000 And sometimes when people suggest there's no evidence for God, I'll ask them, is there any evidence for gender?

00:12:17.000 And Charlie, if they say no, I'll say, I can't believe that.

00:12:20.000 I love that.

00:12:22.000 I can't help you with the God question, man.

00:12:24.000 If you can't look in the mirror and know what you are, how am I going to convince you there's an invisible being that created and sustains the world?

00:12:32.000 You won't believe what's right in front of you.

00:12:33.000 I mean, come on.

00:12:35.000 Yeah, and they accuse us of not living in reality.

00:12:39.000 And this really is a war on reality, is what it is.

00:12:42.000 So number five, and then I want to talk more philosophically.

00:12:46.000 I want to talk more.

00:12:46.000 And we have some pieces of tape here that are important here.

00:12:49.000 There is no basis for transgender rights. 1.00

00:12:52.000 What do you mean by that?

00:12:54.000 Well, I mean, there's no basis for any rights unless God exists, whether it's transgender rights or just human rights. 1.00

00:13:00.000 There are no rights at all if there is no God.

00:13:03.000 As our Declaration of Independence put it, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created and endowed by their government.

00:13:09.000 No.

00:13:10.000 Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

00:13:13.000 Among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:13:15.000 Governments are merely instituted among men to secure these rights, not to give you rights or not to take away rights.

00:13:22.000 But Charlie, in our country today, it seems like we have people who are creating rights every 10 minutes, and many of them are atheists.

00:13:32.000 They have no way to justify rights.

00:13:34.000 If there's no God, everything's a matter of opinion.

00:13:38.000 It's just my opinion against your opinion, or it's just Hitler's opinion against, say, Mother Teresa's opinion.

00:13:45.000 There is no standard unless God exists.

00:13:48.000 There is no objective standard of rightness, which means there are no rights.

00:13:52.000 Everybody just has their own opinion.

00:13:54.000 Now, you know in your heart, I know in my heart, we all know in all of our hearts, if we are really honest about this, that there are certain things that are objectively right and other things that are objectively wrong.

00:14:06.000 One of the things that is objectively right, the right to life is an objective right and everybody knows it.

00:14:12.000 We may suppress it.

00:14:13.000 We may want to go our own way, but we know it's true. 0.99

00:14:18.000 The problem is we also know that it's wrong to mutilate children, yet some people are suppressing that now, Charlie, in the name of some sort of transgender ideology, which I think is horrific.

00:14:30.000 And if we don't start calling evil what it really is, our country is going to crumble and young people especially are going to get hurt.

00:14:38.000 So we need to stand right now, draw a line in the sand.

00:14:42.000 I don't care whether you're a Christian or not. 0.99

00:14:43.000 You know it's wrong to mutilate children.

00:14:45.000 Why are you allowing it on your watch?

00:14:48.000 Yeah, no, that's exactly right.

00:14:50.000 The pastors.

00:14:51.000 You know, you spoke at our pastor summit in Nashville, Tennessee, 1,100 pastors, and we had a variety of speakers.

00:14:57.000 You did a great job, and I'm glad you were there.

00:14:59.000 I think we have you come in in San Diego as well to our upcoming one in September.

00:15:04.000 So not, I would say maybe 20% or 30% of American pastors are speaking out on this.

00:15:10.000 Now, let's be clear, this is not the only thing they should be speaking out, obviously, but maybe a little mention here or there.

00:15:16.000 Your thoughts on this.

00:15:17.000 Two questions you need to ask someone who says we ought not be involved in politics as Christians.

00:15:22.000 First question, should Christians care how other people are treated? 0.99

00:15:26.000 Who's going to say no?

00:15:27.000 Of course.

00:15:27.000 Next question.

00:15:28.000 Should Christians care how people are treated by their government?

00:15:32.000 Well, yeah, of course we ought to care how people are treated by their government.

00:15:35.000 Welcome to politics, ladies and gentlemen.

00:15:37.000 It's not our first calling, but as you have said, Charlie, our first calling is to bring people the gospel.

00:15:43.000 Our second calling is to ensure that the government allows us to do the first calling because governments can stop our ability from preaching and living the gospel.

00:15:53.000 You don't think so.

00:15:54.000 You can go to some of the countries I've been to, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China.

00:15:58.000 We can't have the Charlie Kirk show or a church in any of those countries.

00:16:02.000 Why?

00:16:03.000 Because politically they've ruled it out.

00:16:05.000 And we take it for granted that we have religious freedom in this country, Charlie, but we need to stand up to ensure we keep that religious freedom.

00:16:11.000 And for no other reason, to preach and live the gospel and to help other people know what the right thing to do is.

00:16:19.000 Very powerful dialectic.

00:16:21.000 Do you care how other people are treated?

00:16:22.000 And do you care how the government treats us or treats people?

00:16:29.000 I want to tell you guys about something every single one of you can benefit from, and you guys need to change.

00:16:35.000 It's who we use when we go to get mortgages.

00:16:37.000 Look, I balance a lot of stuff.

00:16:38.000 I'm traveling all the time, my show, and I recently needed to get a mortgage to get something figured out.

00:16:44.000 And it was a tough one.

00:16:45.000 And I didn't want to go to those woke banks. 0.98

00:16:47.000 I, you know, I did previous, my last mortgage we did.

00:16:50.000 It was with a woke bank, and they were just, they were bureaucratic and they donate the BLM and the gay agenda and all that stuff. 0.81

00:16:56.000 And I said, what can I do to actually, and I said, of course, duh, hello, andrewandodd.com.

00:17:02.000 They're Christian.

00:17:03.000 They're conservative.

00:17:04.000 Our worldviews are aligned.

00:17:06.000 They're fabulous people.

00:17:07.000 When I needed a mortgage, of course, I went to my friends, Andrew Delray and Todd of Aiken at Sierra Pacific.

00:17:14.000 And look, this is the first time I used them because, you know, we were just recently started doing stuff on the show and partners.

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00:17:20.000 You know, we do a lot of things together.

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00:17:27.000 And I said, boy, guys, I now see how great you guys actually are.

00:17:31.000 And yes, no more of this woke stuff.

00:17:31.000 Responsive.

00:17:33.000 Stop using the woke banks.

00:17:36.000 Oh, I want to refinance my home and I'm going to go to a bank that hates me.

00:17:38.000 Stop doing that.

00:17:39.000 Instead, go to AndrewandTodd.com.

00:17:41.000 So if you or someone you know is moving from blue states to red states, AndrewandTodd.com.

00:17:46.000 Have an aging family member that needs financial relief because you may be a reverse mortgage, AndrewandTodd.com.

00:17:52.000 Are you self-employed and finding it hard to qualify?

00:17:54.000 Or first-time homebuyer?

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00:18:04.000 They're fabulous.

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00:18:05.000 We go out to dinner together.

00:18:07.000 They're great people.

00:18:08.000 So don't depend on those woke banks, the big banks.

00:18:10.000 They do a terrible job, by the way.

00:18:12.000 They're funding all the destructive stuff.

00:18:14.000 They want centralized bank digital currency.

00:18:16.000 They're all part of the great reset.

00:18:17.000 This is a group of men.

00:18:20.000 This is a group of guys.

00:18:20.000 Get rid of that.

00:18:21.000 They do a great job.

00:18:23.000 And stop depending on woke banks.

00:18:24.000 For what I needed, I saw it firsthand.

00:18:27.000 They got it done for me.

00:18:29.000 And it was very complicated.

00:18:30.000 It was a ficket.

00:18:31.000 It was a maze.

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00:18:33.000 And they said, oh, you got to do this and this.

00:18:34.000 And I'll make this phone call.

00:18:35.000 We'll do this and this paperwork.

00:18:36.000 And again, these other banks that I deal with, it's like, here's 955,000 pages to sign, and they don't call you back, and they don't work weekends.

00:18:44.000 I had a problem with one of the things on the process because it was one thing that wasn't filled out.

00:18:48.000 And they respond on a Sunday within minutes.

00:18:50.000 You're trying to get a response from a woke bank on a Sunday.

00:18:52.000 You'll say, sorry, no response.

00:18:55.000 So check it out.

00:18:55.000 It's AndrewandTodd.com, 888, 888, 1172.

00:18:59.000 That's how you call them and say, Charlie Kirk sent you.

00:19:01.000 You might actually get them on the phone.

00:19:03.000 Again, they're value-aligned, honest, trustworthy, wonderful people.

00:19:07.000 I use them.

00:19:08.000 You should use them too.

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00:19:13.000 Love these guys.

00:19:14.000 AndrewandTodd.com, 88-8, 888, 1172.

00:19:17.000 And finally, some of you might say, oh, Charlie, bad time to buy a home.

00:19:21.000 I don't know about that.

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00:19:24.000 Commercial real estate is one thing.

00:19:26.000 Private single-family home ownership, it might actually stabilize and go up in the next year.

00:19:32.000 If you're young, it might be the time to get in.

00:19:35.000 Think about it, pray about it.

00:19:36.000 But most importantly, go to AndrewandTodd.com for all your mortgage needs.

00:19:39.000 Great guys, AndrewandTodd.com.

00:19:44.000 So, Frank, I think part of the problem is many pastors are just afraid to engage on these topics.

00:19:49.000 Why do you think that is, Frank?

00:19:50.000 I think part of the reason is because they're afraid they're going to lose people on their staff because people in the congregation are going to walk out and they're not going to have as much income to come in.

00:20:00.000 I think that's one reason.

00:20:02.000 And actually, in reality, that will happen initially, but then you're going to have more people showing up at your church and they're going to be truly devoted disciples.

00:20:10.000 In fact, Tony Perkins at the Family Research Council points this out.

00:20:13.000 If you start preaching on the hard issues of the day, some people are going to get up and leave, but a lot more people are going to show up and they're going to be strong advocates and strong disciples.

00:20:22.000 And our own friend, our mutual friend Jack Hibbs, found this out.

00:20:25.000 I mean, his church has doubled since COVID, Charlie, as you well know.

00:20:29.000 You and I have both spoken there on numerous occasions.

00:20:31.000 And it's because Jack draws lines in the sand.

00:20:34.000 He does not back down on any of these issues.

00:20:36.000 He wants people to know the truth.

00:20:38.000 And that's what love does, Charlie.

00:20:40.000 Love doesn't mean you approve of what people do.

00:20:43.000 Love means you love them enough to tell them the truth.

00:20:46.000 And that's what Charlie, that's what Jack Hibbs does, and a few other pastors I know as well.

00:20:52.000 Unfortunately, the majority of pastors are silent on these issues, Charlie.

00:20:55.000 And I think maybe another reason is they don't know how to deal with them.

00:20:58.000 And that's why what you're doing at TPUSA Faith is you're equipping pastors with the ability to speak on these issues in a coherent and not obnoxious way.

00:21:09.000 Well, thank you.

00:21:10.000 I appreciate that.

00:21:11.000 And hopefully we can get more pastors to speak out and do the same.

00:21:16.000 And so what we have here is a spiritual struggle.

00:21:19.000 Frank, can you talk about this?

00:21:20.000 What is the spiritual component to the trans issue?

00:21:24.000 What are the invisible dimensions here?

00:21:26.000 What do the scriptures say about this theology when it comes to rejecting one's own biology?

00:21:34.000 God made us male and female in his image.

00:21:37.000 And when we attack that binary, we're attacking the image of God. 0.97

00:21:42.000 And we're not helping people by doing this, Charlie.

00:21:44.000 In the book, by the way, the book is called Correct, Not Politically Correct, and it's in third edition.

00:21:49.000 I originally wrote it in 2008.

00:21:50.000 I updated it in 2016 after the Supreme Court decision imposed same-sex marriage on the entire nation.

00:21:58.000 And then I just updated again this year with regard to transgenderism.

00:22:03.000 It does not quote Bible verses, Charlie.

00:22:05.000 This is not a book that's written from a biblical perspective in the sense that I'm quoting Bible verses.

00:22:10.000 I'm making the natural law, medical, common sense case that neither same-sex marriage nor transgenderism is either good for individuals or good for a society. 0.99

00:22:21.000 And the spiritual component, however, is the fact that we are made in the image of God, that there are men and women.

00:22:29.000 And by attacking that, by attacking the gender binary, we're attacking the very image of God. 0.94

00:22:36.000 And I think it's unpacked quite well to go to the Bible here by the Apostle Paul when he writes in his great book of Romans in Romans chapter one.

00:22:45.000 It begins, Charlie, with suppressing the truth, that we know the truth.

00:22:49.000 We know there's a God.

00:22:50.000 His invisible qualities are clearly seen so that we are without excuse.

00:22:54.000 But we often suppress the truth about him, Charlie.

00:22:57.000 And it's not just unbelievers that are guilty of this. 1.00

00:22:59.000 Sometimes Christians are as well. 0.97

00:23:00.000 We suppress the truth about God and about his standard of rightness because we want to go another way.

00:23:07.000 We want to do our own thing.

00:23:09.000 And Paul warns us that if we do that long enough, particularly on the sexual issues, God is going to leave us.

00:23:16.000 He's going to give us up to a depraved mind to the point where we are not only doing evil, Charlie, but we're cheering on other people who are doing evil.

00:23:24.000 Case in point, just yesterday, the day before, the governor of New York, Hochul, signed a bill which made, according to her, New York a safe haven for kids that want to get gender reassignment surgery.

00:23:37.000 She wants young people to get mutilated, to mutilate their bodies.

00:23:42.000 She should know it's impossible to change your biology. 0.76

00:23:45.000 Yet she thinks this is the way forward rather than good counseling, which is the proper way to deal with a mental issue.

00:23:52.000 You don't deal with a mental delusion with surgery.

00:23:56.000 You deal with it with psychiatry, with cognitive therapy, as you have said many times yourself.

00:24:02.000 Yet you have the left here completely deranged here, Charlie.

00:24:06.000 I mean, you see it when you go on college campuses, how they're coming up against you, trying to say that people have certain trans rights.

00:24:13.000 First of all, they have no... no way to justify what a right is unless God exists.

00:24:17.000 And secondly, they're actually for the mutilation of children when we know from the data, as I document in the book, that 80% of kids that have this so-called gender dysphoria grow out of it by the time they're 18. 0.51

00:24:29.000 So why would you give them Lupron, which is what we used to give to sex offenders to chemically castrate them, or God forbid, surgery to fix a problem that's going to fix itself anyway?

00:24:40.000 This is madness, Charlie.

00:24:42.000 It is madness.

00:24:43.000 And the enemy wants to try to get to as many children as possible and spiritually corrupt them and have them either believe in nothing and or destroy their life, which is exactly what we're seeing.

00:24:57.000 And the church has to stand against this, has to stand against it.

00:25:01.000 And I think it's important, Frank, and I'm glad you said transgender ideology, that this is something that we are teaching.

00:25:09.000 This is something that is increasing because it's a social contagion.

00:25:14.000 It's not quote unquote within, it's actually against the natural law.

00:25:18.000 So also talk, Frank, you wrote the book, correct, not politically correct.

00:25:22.000 As you mentioned, that was largely in the debate about marriage, right?

00:25:25.000 One man, one woman marriage. 0.79

00:25:27.000 Just look at the sexual degeneracy in the last 10 or 15 years.

00:25:32.000 Did you ever anticipate when you first wrote that book the nonsense that we'd be living through now?

00:25:38.000 Well, actually, I kind of did.

00:25:40.000 That's why I left the first half of the book as it was when I updated it this year, because I said that this kind of degeneracy is going to happen, that people that are basically for man-woman marriage are going to be deemed like they're racists, like they're bigots.

00:25:58.000 Well, that has come true, unfortunately.

00:26:00.000 And if you take away a man-woman marriage and you say just any two people can get married, in other words, you make marriage genderless, then why two? 0.94

00:26:11.000 Because the reason it's two between a man and a woman is for procreation. 1.00

00:26:14.000 But if procreation isn't part of the deal, Charlie, then why stop at two?

00:26:18.000 Why not go to three, four, five?

00:26:19.000 And we're starting to see that now.

00:26:21.000 So the madness continues, Charlie, because we've broken away from the natural law standard, which comes from God himself.

00:26:30.000 Although you don't need to believe in God or you don't need to be a Christian or any other kind of theist to know this, you know it because it's written on your heart.

00:26:38.000 Now, as we mentioned earlier, you could suppress that to go your own way.

00:26:41.000 But we point that out.

00:26:43.000 So in the book, correct, not politically correct, we're also pointing out, by the way, Charlie, that there is no such thing as a valueless society, that everyone's trying to legislate morality.

00:26:51.000 The only question is whose morality will be legislated.

00:26:55.000 Notice that Kathy Hochl up there in New York is trying to legislate a certain morality. 1.00

00:26:59.000 She's trying to say it's morally wrong to prevent kids from mutilating themselves or doctors from mutilating them.

00:27:05.000 Charlie, if we rewound this and went back 70 years, this is Joseph Mengela stuff.

00:27:13.000 We're experimenting on kids because there's no known protocol to change the sexes because it's impossible. 0.99

00:27:20.000 These doctors are making this up as they go, Charlie.

00:27:24.000 So it's tragic.

00:27:25.000 That's right.

00:27:25.000 It really is.

00:27:26.000 There's no basis.

00:27:28.000 There's no basis to permanently mutilate a child and irreversibly and call it science.

00:27:34.000 Frank, can you comment on the gender?

00:27:35.000 So we're coming to the end of not so pride month. 0.80

00:27:38.000 Pride is a sin.

00:27:41.000 How should we take this?

00:27:42.000 Pride is the deadliest of all sins, according to the Catholic Church.

00:27:46.000 And we may or may not agree with that, but that's their theology, what they've written and published.

00:27:53.000 Pride month.

00:27:54.000 This has gotten totally out of control, Frank. 0.99

00:27:56.000 How should we as Christians continue to respond to this ridiculous pride celebration of sexual degeneracy? 1.00

00:28:03.000 Well, I think as Christians, we ought to speak the truth, but speak the truth in a way that people can understand that the reason we're speaking the truth is not because we have to get our way. 0.73

00:28:17.000 It's not my way.

00:28:17.000 It's not my morality that I think ought to be legislated.

00:28:20.000 It's not your morality, Charlie.

00:28:22.000 It's the morality.

00:28:23.000 The one Thomas Jefferson said was self-evident.

00:28:26.000 The one the Apostle Paul said, the Gentiles and I have the law of the law written on their hearts.

00:28:29.000 So I'm not trying to impose my own view.

00:28:31.000 I didn't make these morals up, Charlie.

00:28:33.000 I didn't make up the fact that murder is wrong, that abortion is wrong, that rape is wrong, that theft is wrong, that men were made for women and women were made for men. 0.50

00:28:41.000 And the best way to perpetuate and stabilize society, which is the reason the government's involved in marriage to begin with, is to legally recognize the man-woman relationship over every other relationship.

00:28:52.000 I didn't make any of that up, Charlie.

00:28:54.000 It's not my morality.

00:28:55.000 It happens to be the morality.

00:28:57.000 And if someone has a problem with that, you really don't have a problem with me.

00:29:01.000 I didn't invent it.

00:29:02.000 You have a problem with the creator upon whose nature this morality is derived.

00:29:07.000 And we think, I think, and I think you think, Charlie, and I think most reasonable people, if they really looked at it, would realize that this morality is the morality that puts forth human beings to flourish the best.

00:29:19.000 That's why we're for it.

00:29:20.000 We want human beings to flourish.

00:29:23.000 And we're derelict if we sit on the sidelines and we think what we know what the truth is, and we're silent about it, Charlie.

00:29:29.000 We're silent.

00:29:30.000 We can't be silent if the world is going down and we know what the lifeboat is.

00:29:36.000 We know what the lifeboat, we know what the right thing to do is.

00:29:39.000 And we're trying to show people that.

00:29:41.000 They may reject us.

00:29:42.000 They may hate us for it, but we have to tell people the truth and leave the results to God.

00:29:46.000 That's what love does, Charlie.

00:29:48.000 Yeah, love is not affirmation.

00:29:50.000 Talk about that, Frank, because we're told that we must have gender-affirming care or affirm people's lifestyle.

00:29:56.000 Should we?

00:29:56.000 Well, no, not if it's harmful.

00:29:58.000 And this is harmful, as I document in the book, correct, not politically correct.

00:30:02.000 It's harmful medically.

00:30:04.000 And no, love does not require approval.

00:30:06.000 I mean, any parent knows that if he or she approves of everything his kid or her kid wants to do when they're 12 years old, that parent isn't loving.

00:30:18.000 You don't love people by approving what's evil.

00:30:20.000 You love people by seeking what's best for them.

00:30:23.000 And that means standing in the way of evil.

00:30:27.000 Every parent should know that.

00:30:29.000 And from a biblical perspective, Paul says, and by the way, this is the passage everyone reads at their wedding, but nobody obeys 1 Corinthians 13.

00:30:36.000 Paul says, love always protects.

00:30:39.000 Love does not rejoice in wrongdoing.

00:30:41.000 Love rejoices in the truth.

00:30:43.000 Love does what's right, Charlie.

00:30:46.000 It doesn't approve of evil.

00:30:48.000 And tolerance of evil is the virtue of a dying society.

00:30:53.000 And that tragically is where we are, Charlie.

00:30:55.000 We're a dying society because we're tolerating everything, including evil.

00:31:03.000 You've lived through enough pride months now.

00:31:06.000 I'm starting to see some pushback.

00:31:08.000 Do you agree that finally some people are speaking out?

00:31:11.000 And this was probably one of the most promising pride months, a sense of finally we have people that are calling out the wickedness. 0.70

00:31:20.000 Do you agree with that, Frank?

00:31:21.000 Yeah, absolutely, Charlie.

00:31:22.000 In fact, Douglas Murray was on a program recently.

00:31:26.000 And as you know, Douglas identifies as a gay man, but he was talking to a leftist on this program.

00:31:35.000 He was saying, do you know that support for same-sex marriage in America is dropping largely because the entire LGBTQ community is now identified with Pride Month, which is going after children. 0.81

00:31:51.000 And as soon as you start going after children, whether it's through this transgender surgery or these hormone treatments or the drag queens in New York City saying, we're here, we're queer and we're coming for your children. 0.80

00:32:03.000 Suddenly people are starting to pay attention now.

00:32:05.000 They're going, okay, we were okay with consenting adults doing this, but now you're going after our children.

00:32:11.000 And your producer, Andrew, yesterday on the program pointed this out, Charlie, that it's the logical outworking of these people to go after children because they know that the next generation, first of all, they can't reproduce themselves support.

00:32:27.000 They have to recruit and get people to get them.

00:32:29.000 They have to recruit because they can't reproduce.

00:32:31.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:32:32.000 Yeah.

00:32:33.000 Yeah.

00:32:33.000 And now there are reasonable people that we both know, Charlie, like Douglas Murray, like Dave Rubin, who identify themselves as gay, but they are completely against all this pride hoopla here because it's actually hurting the acceptance of what they want to do in society by grouping all these other behaviors in with it.

00:32:55.000 And this is the problem.

00:32:56.000 It's the slippery slope.

00:32:59.000 It just goes on.

00:33:00.000 And by the way, Charlie, let me say one other thing about this.

00:33:02.000 I really don't think that overall the LGBTQ community was the most responsible for bringing gay marriage into law here through the Supreme Court.

00:33:14.000 I really think it was heterosexuals all the way back to 1969 who paved the runway for this because it started with Ronald Reagan, believe it or not, signing the first no-fault divorce bill.

00:33:29.000 Good intended, by the way.

00:33:31.000 He later came to regret that.

00:33:32.000 But the reason he signed it is because the culture had bought into the idea that marriage was just a romantic relationship that required romantic affinity between two people.

00:33:43.000 It didn't have anything to do with children, therefore.

00:33:46.000 Well, that kind of idea brought what was brought forward through the 70s and 80s and 90s to the point where people said, well, yeah, if marriage is just all about romance, why does it have to be a man and a woman?

00:33:57.000 Why couldn't it be two men?

00:33:59.000 And now we're bearing the fruits of that. 1.00

00:34:02.000 Now marriage is genderless. 0.96

00:34:03.000 Children are an afterthought in marriage.

00:34:06.000 And that's the real problem with same-sex marriage. 0.63

00:34:08.000 It's not same-sex marriage per se.

00:34:10.000 It's that marriage is now genderless, Charlie. 0.94

00:34:12.000 And if it's genderless, it no longer has anything to do with children.

00:34:16.000 And if marriage isn't the institution to protect children, Charlie, what institution is there to protect children?

00:34:22.000 That's the problem.

00:34:22.000 There isn't one.

00:34:25.000 It's a union of opposites, too.

00:34:28.000 Anyone who's married knows that it's a union of opposites.

00:34:31.000 It's two totally different parts that come together to create something that the independent otherwise would not be able to do.

00:34:39.000 Children, marriage, having a family, and other things too.

00:34:43.000 So marriage is a very specific thing, a new thing in and of itself.

00:34:47.000 And when you have two of the same thing, you don't get that same thing in creation that way.

00:34:52.000 Check out Frank Turek's third edition of Correct, Not Politically Correct.

00:34:57.000 Frank Turek is a great friend.

00:34:58.000 He's an excellent person.

00:35:00.000 I really think highly of him and honored to be in the trenches with Frank Turek, a truth teller for our time.

00:35:07.000 And check out his ministry, cross-examined.

00:35:09.000 They go to college campuses with apologetics.

00:35:12.000 He's one of the best, if not the best in the country on this.

00:35:16.000 See you soon.

00:35:16.000 Frank, God bless you.

00:35:17.000 Thank you so much.

00:35:18.000 God bless you, Charlie.

00:35:19.000 Thanks so much.

00:35:22.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:24.000 Email us your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:27.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

00:35:32.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - June 30, 2023

The Five Fatal Flaws of Transgender Ideology with Frank Turek

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