00:00:51.000His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:59.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:11.000Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.
00:01:20.000Joining us now is one of my favorite guests, author of Correct, Not Politically Correct, and also cross-examined, amongst many other things, Frank Turek, who has an important piece we're going to talk about this hour, Five Fatal Flaws in the Transgender Ideology.
00:02:39.000Yeah, this is what so many people seem to miss is on one hand, the trans activists, the leftists are trying to say there's all these different genders and gender is completely fluid.
00:02:54.000On the other hand, they have to unwittingly presuppose there's only two genders.
00:02:59.000Because if I'm a man and I think I'm a woman, I have to some idea what a man is and some idea what a woman is to know that I have this mismatch between my psychology and my biology.
00:03:11.000If there was no fixed gender known as a man and no fixed gender known as a woman, I would have no way of knowing I had gender dysphoria.
00:03:20.000Also, if I tried to make the so-called transition from being a man to being a woman, which as we'll see here in a minute, is actually physically impossible.
00:03:28.000But if I wanted to try and do that, I would have to have some idea of what a man is and some idea of what a woman is to even know that I had this gender dysphoria and that I could try and make the transition.
00:03:41.000So on one hand, they're trying to say there's all these different genders, it's completely fluid.
00:03:44.000On the other hand, they have to presuppose there's only two fixed genders to make transgenderism even possible.
00:03:52.000And that's a great segue to a third point, which is you could change your mind, but not your biology.
00:03:59.000Yeah, before I get there, let me say one other thing about this, Charlie, because there's a bit of a civil war in the so-called LGBTQ community, which isn't really a community anymore.
00:04:13.000Because Charlie, if the Ts get their way that there are no fixed genders, the L's, the Bs, and the Gs don't exist because they rely on fixed genders.
00:04:26.000I mean, how can you be lesbian, gay, or bisexual if genders aren't fixed?
00:04:31.000And of course, as you know, Charlie, the feminists aren't too happy with this either because if there are no fixed genders, there are no women.
00:04:40.000And if there are no women, there are no women's rights.
00:04:44.000And this, of course, is why you have strange bedfellows now.
00:04:47.000You have J.K. Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series, who is probably personally politically liberal.
00:04:54.000But Charlie, she's come out and saying, you're erasing women.
00:04:58.000You're erasing women by this ideology.
00:05:00.000And although she's been called a TERF, a transgender radical feminist or something, she's actually standing by the principle that if the transgender activists get their way, Charlie, they've erased women and they've also erased lesbian, gay, and bisexual in terms of their identity.
00:05:20.000And by the way, this is why Matt Walsh's brilliant documentary, What is a Woman, they have so many of these academic leftists completely flummoxed by the question, Charlie.
00:05:32.000Because a woman, because when he asked them the question, if they define a woman as a biological female, then transgender ideology is false.
00:05:41.000If they refuse to answer, which is what they tend to do and what they did on his documentary, then transgenderism isn't possible.
00:05:48.000Because who is transitioning to what and whatever happened to women's rights if you don't even know what a woman is?
00:05:55.000They can't define that because they'll say, well, a woman is anyone who wants to be a woman.
00:05:59.000No, but what is the thing that you say anybody can be?
00:06:01.000So you could change your mind, but you can't change your biology.
00:06:34.000I've heard you say it at some of the college campuses.
00:06:36.000You use the analogy of anorexia, which is what Dr. Paul McHugh, a psychiatrist at John Hopkins University, first revealed.
00:06:45.000He said, transgenderism, affirming someone in their transgender, so-called gender identity is like affirming an anorexic that they're overweight.
00:07:05.000So if you have a woman who thinks she's overweight, but she's really anorexic, you would not help that woman by saying, honey, let me get you some liposuction, right?
00:07:14.000I mean, you would say, no, I'm sorry, dear, your mind is telling you tricks.
00:07:24.000And you wouldn't tell a transabled person, this is kind of a new thing out there, where people are saying, you know, I really, in my mind, am disabled, but all my limbs work, but you cut off my right arm for me.
00:07:34.000No, you wouldn't say, yeah, let me do that.
00:07:36.000You'd say, no, you got a problem in your mind.
00:07:39.000And Charlie, if your beautiful daughter at one point said, you know, I'm a mermaid, dad, you wouldn't take her off the coast and drop her in the ocean, would you?
00:07:47.000I mean, you would say, dear, you're suffering a delusion here.
00:08:00.000And by the way, Charlie, one of the reasons I appreciate your work and TPUSA and TPUSA faith is because you're trying to get particularly pastors and Christians to speak up for the truth.
00:08:16.000People like Bill Maher and people like Richard Dawkins, probably the most famous atheist in the world today, these men, unfortunately, have more courage than most American pastors.
00:08:29.000Bill Maher has come out and said, look, you know, kids go through phases.
00:08:34.000You know, if every kid knew what he wanted to be when he was eight, the world would be filled with cowboys and princesses, but they're not.
00:08:40.000In fact, he said, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a pirate.
00:08:44.000Thank God nobody took me seriously and took me for peg leg and eye removal surgery.
00:09:20.000And most people haven't even heard the logical arguments.
00:09:23.000They think, oh, wow, 13-year-old, they're going to kill themselves if they don't get benzodiazepines in addition to hormone blockers with Lupron.
00:09:53.000But you have to simultaneously do the other thing.
00:09:56.000I believe you actually have an obligation, which is to support women in need and babies in need that are at risk of being aborted.
00:10:04.000Look, when you introduce a girl to her baby by providing an ultrasound, you're giving her the truth at the most critical and important time in her life.
00:10:12.00085% of the time when they actually see the baby, they choose life.
00:10:18.000Now, mind you, pre-born provides resources.
00:10:24.000And I encourage you, if you're pro-life, to pray about this, are you giving money to actually support the unborn if you are voting for pro-life?
00:10:30.000Look, $140 gives five mothers a free ultrasound and saves babies.
00:10:34.000$280 can save 10 babies, and just $28 a month can save a baby a month for less than a dollar a day.
00:10:39.000I'm a donor to this organization, and you should be too.
00:10:42.000A $15,000 gift will provide an ultrasound machine that will save lives for years to come.
00:10:47.000Whether you want to save one baby or five or hundreds, this opportunity is just a phone call or click away.
00:10:53.000I think the world of pre-born, I give money financially.
00:10:56.000And every one of you that are pro-life, I believe you have a duty and an obligation to go to preborn.org slash Kirk and give as you can, give your best gift, or call 833-850-2229.
00:11:20.000I know we touched on it briefly here, but number three here, you could change your mind, not your biology, which then kind of segues to number four.
00:11:36.000Yeah, for transgender advocates to succeed, Charlie, they got to get people to believe what they know is really the unbelievable idea that sex is assigned at birth rather than discovered.
00:12:22.000I can't help you with the God question, man.
00:12:24.000If you can't look in the mirror and know what you are, how am I going to convince you there's an invisible being that created and sustains the world?
00:12:32.000You won't believe what's right in front of you.
00:12:54.000Well, I mean, there's no basis for any rights unless God exists, whether it's transgender rights or just human rights.
00:13:00.000There are no rights at all if there is no God.
00:13:03.000As our Declaration of Independence put it, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created and endowed by their government.
00:13:54.000Now, you know in your heart, I know in my heart, we all know in all of our hearts, if we are really honest about this, that there are certain things that are objectively right and other things that are objectively wrong.
00:14:06.000One of the things that is objectively right, the right to life is an objective right and everybody knows it.
00:14:13.000We may want to go our own way, but we know it's true.
00:14:18.000The problem is we also know that it's wrong to mutilate children, yet some people are suppressing that now, Charlie, in the name of some sort of transgender ideology, which I think is horrific.
00:14:30.000And if we don't start calling evil what it really is, our country is going to crumble and young people especially are going to get hurt.
00:14:38.000So we need to stand right now, draw a line in the sand.
00:14:42.000I don't care whether you're a Christian or not.
00:14:43.000You know it's wrong to mutilate children.
00:14:45.000Why are you allowing it on your watch?
00:15:28.000Should Christians care how people are treated by their government?
00:15:32.000Well, yeah, of course we ought to care how people are treated by their government.
00:15:35.000Welcome to politics, ladies and gentlemen.
00:15:37.000It's not our first calling, but as you have said, Charlie, our first calling is to bring people the gospel.
00:15:43.000Our second calling is to ensure that the government allows us to do the first calling because governments can stop our ability from preaching and living the gospel.
00:16:03.000Because politically they've ruled it out.
00:16:05.000And we take it for granted that we have religious freedom in this country, Charlie, but we need to stand up to ensure we keep that religious freedom.
00:16:11.000And for no other reason, to preach and live the gospel and to help other people know what the right thing to do is.
00:18:36.000And again, these other banks that I deal with, it's like, here's 955,000 pages to sign, and they don't call you back, and they don't work weekends.
00:18:44.000I had a problem with one of the things on the process because it was one thing that wasn't filled out.
00:18:48.000And they respond on a Sunday within minutes.
00:18:50.000You're trying to get a response from a woke bank on a Sunday.
00:19:50.000I think part of the reason is because they're afraid they're going to lose people on their staff because people in the congregation are going to walk out and they're not going to have as much income to come in.
00:20:02.000And actually, in reality, that will happen initially, but then you're going to have more people showing up at your church and they're going to be truly devoted disciples.
00:20:10.000In fact, Tony Perkins at the Family Research Council points this out.
00:20:13.000If you start preaching on the hard issues of the day, some people are going to get up and leave, but a lot more people are going to show up and they're going to be strong advocates and strong disciples.
00:20:22.000And our own friend, our mutual friend Jack Hibbs, found this out.
00:20:25.000I mean, his church has doubled since COVID, Charlie, as you well know.
00:20:29.000You and I have both spoken there on numerous occasions.
00:20:31.000And it's because Jack draws lines in the sand.
00:20:34.000He does not back down on any of these issues.
00:20:40.000Love doesn't mean you approve of what people do.
00:20:43.000Love means you love them enough to tell them the truth.
00:20:46.000And that's what Charlie, that's what Jack Hibbs does, and a few other pastors I know as well.
00:20:52.000Unfortunately, the majority of pastors are silent on these issues, Charlie.
00:20:55.000And I think maybe another reason is they don't know how to deal with them.
00:20:58.000And that's why what you're doing at TPUSA Faith is you're equipping pastors with the ability to speak on these issues in a coherent and not obnoxious way.
00:21:50.000I updated it in 2016 after the Supreme Court decision imposed same-sex marriage on the entire nation.
00:21:58.000And then I just updated again this year with regard to transgenderism.
00:22:03.000It does not quote Bible verses, Charlie.
00:22:05.000This is not a book that's written from a biblical perspective in the sense that I'm quoting Bible verses.
00:22:10.000I'm making the natural law, medical, common sense case that neither same-sex marriage nor transgenderism is either good for individuals or good for a society.
00:22:21.000And the spiritual component, however, is the fact that we are made in the image of God, that there are men and women.
00:22:29.000And by attacking that, by attacking the gender binary, we're attacking the very image of God.
00:22:36.000And I think it's unpacked quite well to go to the Bible here by the Apostle Paul when he writes in his great book of Romans in Romans chapter one.
00:22:45.000It begins, Charlie, with suppressing the truth, that we know the truth.
00:23:09.000And Paul warns us that if we do that long enough, particularly on the sexual issues, God is going to leave us.
00:23:16.000He's going to give us up to a depraved mind to the point where we are not only doing evil, Charlie, but we're cheering on other people who are doing evil.
00:23:24.000Case in point, just yesterday, the day before, the governor of New York, Hochul, signed a bill which made, according to her, New York a safe haven for kids that want to get gender reassignment surgery.
00:23:37.000She wants young people to get mutilated, to mutilate their bodies.
00:23:42.000She should know it's impossible to change your biology.
00:23:45.000Yet she thinks this is the way forward rather than good counseling, which is the proper way to deal with a mental issue.
00:23:52.000You don't deal with a mental delusion with surgery.
00:23:56.000You deal with it with psychiatry, with cognitive therapy, as you have said many times yourself.
00:24:02.000Yet you have the left here completely deranged here, Charlie.
00:24:06.000I mean, you see it when you go on college campuses, how they're coming up against you, trying to say that people have certain trans rights.
00:24:13.000First of all, they have no... no way to justify what a right is unless God exists.
00:24:17.000And secondly, they're actually for the mutilation of children when we know from the data, as I document in the book, that 80% of kids that have this so-called gender dysphoria grow out of it by the time they're 18.
00:24:29.000So why would you give them Lupron, which is what we used to give to sex offenders to chemically castrate them, or God forbid, surgery to fix a problem that's going to fix itself anyway?
00:24:43.000And the enemy wants to try to get to as many children as possible and spiritually corrupt them and have them either believe in nothing and or destroy their life, which is exactly what we're seeing.
00:24:57.000And the church has to stand against this, has to stand against it.
00:25:01.000And I think it's important, Frank, and I'm glad you said transgender ideology, that this is something that we are teaching.
00:25:09.000This is something that is increasing because it's a social contagion.
00:25:14.000It's not quote unquote within, it's actually against the natural law.
00:25:18.000So also talk, Frank, you wrote the book, correct, not politically correct.
00:25:22.000As you mentioned, that was largely in the debate about marriage, right?
00:25:40.000That's why I left the first half of the book as it was when I updated it this year, because I said that this kind of degeneracy is going to happen, that people that are basically for man-woman marriage are going to be deemed like they're racists, like they're bigots.
00:25:58.000Well, that has come true, unfortunately.
00:26:00.000And if you take away a man-woman marriage and you say just any two people can get married, in other words, you make marriage genderless, then why two?
00:26:11.000Because the reason it's two between a man and a woman is for procreation.
00:26:14.000But if procreation isn't part of the deal, Charlie, then why stop at two?
00:26:21.000So the madness continues, Charlie, because we've broken away from the natural law standard, which comes from God himself.
00:26:30.000Although you don't need to believe in God or you don't need to be a Christian or any other kind of theist to know this, you know it because it's written on your heart.
00:26:38.000Now, as we mentioned earlier, you could suppress that to go your own way.
00:26:43.000So in the book, correct, not politically correct, we're also pointing out, by the way, Charlie, that there is no such thing as a valueless society, that everyone's trying to legislate morality.
00:26:51.000The only question is whose morality will be legislated.
00:26:55.000Notice that Kathy Hochl up there in New York is trying to legislate a certain morality.
00:26:59.000She's trying to say it's morally wrong to prevent kids from mutilating themselves or doctors from mutilating them.
00:27:05.000Charlie, if we rewound this and went back 70 years, this is Joseph Mengela stuff.
00:27:13.000We're experimenting on kids because there's no known protocol to change the sexes because it's impossible.
00:27:20.000These doctors are making this up as they go, Charlie.
00:27:54.000This has gotten totally out of control, Frank.
00:27:56.000How should we as Christians continue to respond to this ridiculous pride celebration of sexual degeneracy?
00:28:03.000Well, I think as Christians, we ought to speak the truth, but speak the truth in a way that people can understand that the reason we're speaking the truth is not because we have to get our way.
00:28:23.000The one Thomas Jefferson said was self-evident.
00:28:26.000The one the Apostle Paul said, the Gentiles and I have the law of the law written on their hearts.
00:28:29.000So I'm not trying to impose my own view.
00:28:31.000I didn't make these morals up, Charlie.
00:28:33.000I didn't make up the fact that murder is wrong, that abortion is wrong, that rape is wrong, that theft is wrong, that men were made for women and women were made for men.
00:28:41.000And the best way to perpetuate and stabilize society, which is the reason the government's involved in marriage to begin with, is to legally recognize the man-woman relationship over every other relationship.
00:28:52.000I didn't make any of that up, Charlie.
00:29:02.000You have a problem with the creator upon whose nature this morality is derived.
00:29:07.000And we think, I think, and I think you think, Charlie, and I think most reasonable people, if they really looked at it, would realize that this morality is the morality that puts forth human beings to flourish the best.
00:30:04.000And no, love does not require approval.
00:30:06.000I mean, any parent knows that if he or she approves of everything his kid or her kid wants to do when they're 12 years old, that parent isn't loving.
00:30:18.000You don't love people by approving what's evil.
00:30:20.000You love people by seeking what's best for them.
00:30:23.000And that means standing in the way of evil.
00:30:29.000And from a biblical perspective, Paul says, and by the way, this is the passage everyone reads at their wedding, but nobody obeys 1 Corinthians 13.
00:31:22.000In fact, Douglas Murray was on a program recently.
00:31:26.000And as you know, Douglas identifies as a gay man, but he was talking to a leftist on this program.
00:31:35.000He was saying, do you know that support for same-sex marriage in America is dropping largely because the entire LGBTQ community is now identified with Pride Month, which is going after children.
00:31:51.000And as soon as you start going after children, whether it's through this transgender surgery or these hormone treatments or the drag queens in New York City saying, we're here, we're queer and we're coming for your children.
00:32:03.000Suddenly people are starting to pay attention now.
00:32:05.000They're going, okay, we were okay with consenting adults doing this, but now you're going after our children.
00:32:11.000And your producer, Andrew, yesterday on the program pointed this out, Charlie, that it's the logical outworking of these people to go after children because they know that the next generation, first of all, they can't reproduce themselves support.
00:32:27.000They have to recruit and get people to get them.
00:32:29.000They have to recruit because they can't reproduce.
00:32:33.000And now there are reasonable people that we both know, Charlie, like Douglas Murray, like Dave Rubin, who identify themselves as gay, but they are completely against all this pride hoopla here because it's actually hurting the acceptance of what they want to do in society by grouping all these other behaviors in with it.
00:33:00.000And by the way, Charlie, let me say one other thing about this.
00:33:02.000I really don't think that overall the LGBTQ community was the most responsible for bringing gay marriage into law here through the Supreme Court.
00:33:14.000I really think it was heterosexuals all the way back to 1969 who paved the runway for this because it started with Ronald Reagan, believe it or not, signing the first no-fault divorce bill.
00:33:32.000But the reason he signed it is because the culture had bought into the idea that marriage was just a romantic relationship that required romantic affinity between two people.
00:33:43.000It didn't have anything to do with children, therefore.
00:33:46.000Well, that kind of idea brought what was brought forward through the 70s and 80s and 90s to the point where people said, well, yeah, if marriage is just all about romance, why does it have to be a man and a woman?