The Charlie Kirk Show - November 18, 2025


The Great Feminization of America


Episode Stats


Length

40 minutes

Words per minute

160.94495

Word count

6,529

Sentence count

382

Harmful content

Misogyny

30

sentences flagged

Toxicity

12

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

The Great Feminization is an article written by Helen Andrews for Compact Magazine about the decline in the number of women in science and other traditionally male-dominated fields. In the article, she explains why this is happening, and why it s a good thing. She points to the removal of former Harvard University President Larry Summers as an example of this phenomenon.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.
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00:01:09.000 I'm Andrew Colvett, joined by Blake Neff.
00:01:12.000 This hour, we have the great Helen Andrews on an article that she wrote for Compact magazine called The Great Feminization.
00:01:21.000 Helen, you wrote this fantastic article.
00:01:25.000 Blake actually flagged it for me.
00:01:27.000 This premise, you said it was like a light bulb moment for you.
00:01:31.000 And it went back to Larry Summers, who was, you know, obviously was in the Obama administration.
00:01:38.000 He's now being referenced in context of the Jeffrey Epstein files and the estate releasing these emails.
00:01:46.000 So he's a known commodity, but he used to be the president of Harvard and he was canceled.
00:01:51.000 And this moment was, there was an article written about it, an essay that you reference in your essay, that was this aha moment.
00:01:58.000 What is that aha moment?
00:02:00.000 So Larry Summers had to resign as president of Harvard, one of the most powerful positions in America, because he made some very unPC remarks about women in science.
00:02:12.000 Specifically, he said that we all can observe that women are underrepresented at the very high end of scientific achievement.
00:02:19.000 If you look at the physics department of MIT or Harvard, there are more men there than women.
00:02:24.000 And Larry Summers ventured to say that this was not because the head of the physics department at MIT is biased against women or hates women.
00:02:33.000 It's simply because of first, some differences in aptitude.
00:02:36.000 There are more men at the extreme ends of the bell curve. 0.99
00:02:39.000 So there are more male geniuses and also more male idiots, but also differences in preferences. 0.97
00:02:44.000 Women tend to be, even very bright, smart women who are at that end of the bell curve, tend to gravitate to fields that involve caring or people or some kind of human angle. 0.98
00:02:56.000 They are not attracted or disproportionately less likely to be attracted to really abstract fields like math or physics.
00:03:03.000 All of this is well within the scientific mainstream.
00:03:06.000 It corresponds to survey data that we have and just all the kind of social scientific data you could possibly want.
00:03:13.000 Backs up the idea that there are differences between men and women, and specifically in the areas of what kinds of fields they're attracted to.
00:03:21.000 But Larry Summers, as punishment for saying what everybody who actually studies this knows to be a fact, was canceled, one of the first cancellations by a bunch of female scientists who were in the audience for the speech where he made those remarks. 0.99
00:03:37.000 They said Larry Summers hates women. 0.95
00:03:39.000 He's a misogynist. 0.98
00:03:40.000 He's biased. 0.97
00:03:41.000 And we are going to go gunning for his job.
00:03:44.000 And they succeeded.
00:03:45.000 They managed to get the president of Harvard forced out of his job for telling the truth. 1.00
00:03:51.000 And the light bulb moment that I came across in an essay and later applied to other cancellations was that this type of cancellation is just female social behavior. 1.00
00:04:03.000 It is what groups of women, it's how groups of women interact, how groups of women tend to police norms, how they deal with conflict through ostracism rather than direct confrontation, through excluding people who are causing disruption rather than, you know, having arguments based on facts. 0.96
00:04:23.000 So these female social dynamics were being applied to Larry Summers and his cancellation.
00:04:29.000 And it seemed to me from the perspective of post-wokeness, you know, a few years after Larry Summers left his job, that this kind of cancellation was popping up more and more and has been since the summer of 2020.
00:04:42.000 And if that is a manifestation of female group dynamics in institutions and organizations where they haven't been seen before or haven't prevailed before, then that seems like a really important social development that people need to be talking more and thinking more about.
00:04:56.000 Yeah, I want to get at a specific thing. 0.99
00:04:59.000 You kind of make a prediction in here. 1.00
00:05:01.000 You talk about how fields change over time as they become more women.
00:05:07.000 And so a classic field that was basically all men historically is law.
00:05:12.000 Almost all lawyers were men.
00:05:13.000 Almost all judges were men.
00:05:14.000 Now the majority of law students are women.
00:05:17.000 I believe the majority of graduates are women.
00:05:18.000 And I think soon it might even be the majority of all practicing lawyers will be women.
00:05:24.000 And you lay out, you know, kind of predictions about what that will mean for America, for the rule of law, for how we approach this important topic.
00:05:32.000 And I guess, do you want to just repeat that for our audience? 1.00
00:05:35.000 Well, I know a lot of great female lawyers. 1.00
00:05:37.000 So nobody's saying that women can't be terrific lawyers.
00:05:41.000 But I always ground all of my observations about the feminization of law in things that I can see with my own eyes. 0.62
00:05:48.000 So I'm not just speculating abstractly on how general female tendencies might play out. 0.88
00:05:55.000 What I do instead is I look at types of law where women already predominate. 0.94
00:05:59.000 One example would be the Title IX courts for sexual assault on college campuses that we had. 1.00
00:06:05.000 That was a whole new legal system that was basically designed, implemented, and controlled throughout by women. 1.00
00:06:12.000 And what we saw was it was stacked against men.
00:06:17.000 It forfeited a lot of really important due process protections for the accused.
00:06:23.000 It threw them out because the people who designed this system tended to sympathize with women and tended not to sympathize with the men who were accused.
00:06:32.000 Another example of an area of law that is highly feminized that might be a surprise to your listeners is immigration law.
00:06:41.000 People don't know this, but a majority of immigration lawyers are female, over 60%, I believe.
00:06:48.000 So immigration law is a very highly feminized type of legal practice.
00:06:53.000 And that's one area of law where we all can observe.
00:06:57.000 The letter of the law is still there.
00:07:00.000 We still have lots of laws on the books about citizenship and deportation and immigration and when people are allowed to be in this country and when they're not.
00:07:12.000 But those laws are sort of made a mockery of by a system that has been abused to within an inch of its life.
00:07:18.000 And why has it been so stretched to be almost meaningless?
00:07:23.000 Because the lawyers have sympathy for these human stories.
00:07:27.000 We're in a situation where you can't enforce immigration law if it involves being mean to somebody or making somebody feel sad, right?
00:07:35.000 Like that's basically what a lot of immigration lawyers end up spending their day arguing.
00:07:40.000 So feminized areas of law look like Title IX courts for sexual assault on college campuses, immigration law as we see it today. 0.82
00:07:50.000 On law schools, a lot of law schools during 2020 and even still today went extremely woke, where they shut down any kind of unwelcome conservative argument.
00:08:01.000 They just said, that's hate speech and I won't even consider it.
00:08:04.000 So all of these manifestations of wokeness seem to manifest in areas of law where women already predominate numerically, as they do, as you said, Blake, in law schools. 0.99
00:08:15.000 Law schools have been majority female since 2016.
00:08:18.000 So, well, law is an area that involves adhering to logic even when you don't want to, right? 0.94
00:08:25.000 Like feminine modes of thought and male modes of thought are both great.
00:08:30.000 Sometimes you want to be able to adhere strictly to logic and sometimes you want to be more flexible and look more at context.
00:08:37.000 Law is one area where the logical mode has to prevail or else we don't have the rule of law anymore.
00:08:43.000 Yeah, and I think that's one of the most interesting pieces of your article for me is because we think about, you know, these sort of great leaps forward for women happening in the distant past. 0.98
00:08:53.000 But what you're saying is that, yeah, law schools became majority female in 2016.
00:08:58.000 In 1974, only 10% of New York Times reporters were female. 0.84
00:09:03.000 The New York Times became majority female in 2018.
00:09:06.000 And the female share is up to 55%.
00:09:08.000 Medical schools became majority female in 2019.
00:09:12.000 Women became a majority of college-educated workforce nationwide in 2019. 0.97
00:09:16.000 Women became a majority of college instructors in 2023.
00:09:20.000 The great feminization really occurred just a few years ago, and it's continuing on in many more fields.
00:09:29.000 Hey, everybody, this is Andrew Colvett, executive producer of The Charlie Kirk Show.
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00:10:33.000 And so, Helen, you basically directly link this great feminization with the rise of wokeness.
00:10:41.000 That's the key.
00:10:43.000 Basically, everything that you're seeing in the woke era is an outgrowth of these fields and American institutions become increasingly feminized.
00:10:54.000 What do you see when you say the feminine versus the masculine?
00:10:58.000 Maybe explain what you mean by that.
00:11:01.000 Sure.
00:11:02.000 I think when people hear differences between men and women, a lot of times they jump straight to stereotypes like that men are logical and women are emotional.
00:11:13.000 And that's not really entirely what I'm talking about.
00:11:17.000 More I'm talking about less individual differences between men and women and more group dynamics.
00:11:22.000 This is a subject that has been extensively studied in the field of psychology.
00:11:27.000 If you have a group of men in a room and a group of women in a room and you give them a task, how will these groups solve that task? 0.97
00:11:35.000 How will their interactions proceed differently?
00:11:38.000 And it is a sort of observed fact about group dynamics that men tend to deal with conflict.
00:11:46.000 They tend to have hierarchy.
00:11:49.000 There will be a pecking order that will establish itself very quickly.
00:11:52.000 And they also tend to be very task-oriented. 1.00
00:11:56.000 Female groups, by contrast, are very averse to hierarchy. 0.95
00:12:01.000 They tend to suppress any conflict. 1.00
00:12:05.000 If you broach conflict within a female group, all of the rest of the women there will shut you down and say, whoa, you know, honey, don't make waves. 0.67
00:12:12.000 They are also much less task-oriented. 0.89
00:12:16.000 They're more focused on making sure everybody's involved in the decision.
00:12:20.000 And that's what we saw a lot with wokeness.
00:12:22.000 People were derailed or people derailed institutions from their purposes in order to fritter away their attention on various extraneous political differences.
00:12:34.000 You know, another real, oh, go ahead.
00:12:36.000 Oh, I was just reminded, you know, about that strategy of, you know, like how they all want to hear everyone's voice.
00:12:42.000 And I was thinking back in 2016, there was a Washington Post story about the late Obama administration.
00:12:49.000 And it was about like all the women staffers in the White House, they felt that they weren't hearing enough of their views or something.
00:12:57.000 So they adopted a strategy. 0.98
00:12:58.000 This is the Washington Post.
00:12:59.000 They adopted a strategy called amplification, which is where when one of them they thought made a key point, all of them would just repeat the same point during the meeting.
00:13:08.000 And all I can think of is how that would make the meeting so intolerable to be at.
00:13:14.000 It's very common for men to sort of loathe meeting culture where like, you know, death by a thousand meetings in organizations.
00:13:21.000 Helen, you say that men are more designed for war, right?
00:13:27.000 Which there's there's a and women tend to be more sort of their group dynamics about protecting the young offspring, which makes perfect sense. 0.97
00:13:35.000 But that tends to make men appeasers.
00:13:38.000 They're willing to get over conflicts because they need to ultimately find peace.
00:13:43.000 That's the whole point of wars.
00:13:44.000 You wage war and conflict and then you reach peace at the other end.
00:13:48.000 How are we seeing this play out now in the era of woke?
00:13:52.000 And it affects every institution.
00:13:54.000 I like to reference Blake's example that we can no longer build boats.
00:13:58.000 We can't do basic, you know, striving excellent things as a country and as a culture anymore.
00:14:04.000 And I can't help but think back to this task-oriented nature of men versus women. 1.00
00:14:10.000 The floor is yours, Helen.
00:14:12.000 I was fascinated to learn that these same dynamics appear in primatology.
00:14:17.000 That is, people who look at chimpanzees all day observe that when two male chimpanzees have a conflict, they'll have a fight about it and re-establish which one of them is the alpha, and then they will move on.
00:14:28.000 When two female chimpanzees have a conflict, they will leave and never speak to each other again, basically.
00:14:34.000 So men are much better at resolving conflict and then moving on, whereas women tend to hold on to things and sort of not move on after conflict. 1.00
00:14:46.000 And that's what we saw a lot during wokeness.
00:14:49.000 People were targeted for behavior or for making statements that were on PC.
00:14:55.000 And until, you know, pre-wokeness, the way you would deal with a situation like that is you would have a debate. 1.00
00:15:02.000 James Daymore would be at Google and he would say, I think female underrepresentation in science is due to biological attributes and not bias.
00:15:14.000 The way to deal with that is to have a conversation about whether he's correct or not.
00:15:18.000 The way wokeness deals with that is by saying, I can't believe you just said that.
00:15:23.000 I'm going to get you fired from your job.
00:15:25.000 Wokeness was an inability to have any kind of open debate because the very existence of that debate seemed too much like conflict and conflict had to be suppressed.
00:15:41.000 And this was just so massively toxic for so many institutions since 2020.
00:15:48.000 And the reason why I think it's important to consider whether wokeness is a product of demographic feminization is because if it is, that means wokeness is not over.
00:16:01.000 A lot of people look around, they think, you know, Donald Trump won the election, wokeness is finished, we can all move on, the vibe shift is here.
00:16:09.000 But I think that if these, if wokeness is just female patterns of behavior in institutions where women were not as well represented until recently, then that means it's here to stay and we need to deal with it head on. 0.90
00:16:22.000 Well, I guess that's the natural follow-up is if it's a natural byproduct of institutions being 50% or more female, one, I guess, what are the civilizational implications of that for the United States, for Europe, for I guess, Earth? 0.93
00:16:41.000 And do you believe there's, I guess, a way to mitigate that downside?
00:16:46.000 Or is that just going to be the nature of things going forward?
00:16:49.000 Because I guess to me, it's hard to imagine you're going to turf 60 million women out of the workplace.
00:16:55.000 And that's why sort of the next obvious question after we establish that wokeness is a product of feminization is, is feminization a naturally occurring phenomenon?
00:17:06.000 This is the position that a lot of liberals take.
00:17:08.000 They say, well, you know, the field of law is becoming more and more feminized. 1.00
00:17:13.000 Well, maybe women are just better. 1.00
00:17:14.000 Maybe women are out-competing men within the field of law. 1.00
00:17:17.000 Maybe women are just better employees. 1.00
00:17:19.000 And that's why our newsrooms and businesses are getting more and more feminized.
00:17:24.000 And if I thought that was true, then I would say there's no solution to feminization because I believe in fairness and meritocracy.
00:17:30.000 And if women really are just out-competing men because they're better at stuff, then there's not a lot I can say in response to that. 0.98
00:17:37.000 However, I think a lot of us would accept that in many cases, fields become more and more feminized, not because women are out-competing men within that field, but because women are feminizing that field and making it more and more friendly to feminine preferences and patterns of behavior.
00:17:58.000 Like if you're working at a business that is so HRified that it's like, you know, the HR lady designed every aspect of your day-to-day office experience.
00:18:06.000 She determined who advanced at that company, who got the best promotions and the best assignments, and everything was touchy-feely in a HRFI type of way.
00:18:16.000 Obviously, a masculine man is not going to do well in that environment and he's not going to advance.
00:18:22.000 But that's not because he's not competitive.
00:18:24.000 It's not because he's not good at his job.
00:18:26.000 It's just because that kind of highly feminized organization is not friendly to his virtues and attributes. 0.66
00:18:33.000 So I think when we consider how do we deal with feminization, if it's something we want to roll back, how should we go about it? 0.61
00:18:40.000 That's the first place to look.
00:18:42.000 Are there any institutions or organizations that are too feminized in this unnatural way? 0.82
00:18:47.000 Helen Andrews, Great Peace and Compact magazine, The Great Feminization.
00:18:51.000 Thank you, Helen.
00:18:54.000 President Trump walked into a catch-22 when taking office.
00:18:58.000 Do nothing, and America would be staring at a ticking debt bomb, the kind of crisis that could cripple our future.
00:19:03.000 Instead, he's taken action with strong policies to slow the train and buy us some time.
00:19:07.000 But the effects of past administration spending are still working through the system and experts predict dramatic price increases and market uncertainty.
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00:19:53.000 Now it's your turn to help protect yours.
00:19:58.000 Excited to welcome Miranda Devine, the great Miranda Devine, columnist for the New York Post, author of the new book, The Big Guy.
00:20:06.000 She is joining the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:20:08.000 Miranda, welcome back.
00:20:10.000 It's good to see you.
00:20:11.000 Thanks so much, Andrew.
00:20:12.000 Great to talk to you.
00:20:13.000 Yeah, great to talk to you as well.
00:20:15.000 You had a bombshell article yesterday about the would-be assassin of President Trump.
00:20:23.000 And you threaded in there a little piece about some of his fetishes.
00:20:29.000 Maybe he was entertaining a furry fetish, referred to himself with they-them pronouns.
00:20:35.000 Tell us more, Miranda Devine.
00:20:37.000 It's look at slim pickings.
00:20:39.000 My source went through 17 different online platforms that he found that this would-be assassin of the president, Thomas Crooks, had logged into or had accounts with.
00:20:51.000 And one of them was this site called Deviant Art, which I had not heard of before, but apparently it's the biggest online hub for furry activity, the furry community, which of course is this kind of sexual fetish where people dress up as animals or they like cartoon figures of sort of humanized animals that have sex or a nude.
00:21:15.000 I think some of it's not sexual, but most of it it seems to be.
00:21:18.000 Anyway, it's weird.
00:21:20.000 And so this guy, Thomas Crooks, had two accounts on this platform.
00:21:27.000 And he also on this platform used they, them pronouns.
00:21:33.000 The only thing my source could find, you know, activity of Thomas Crookes that still existed on that platform or on the archive was an image of a sort of sort of bizarre cartoon image of a very muscle-bound sort of man's body,
00:21:50.000 like a Sylvester Stallone or Arnold Schwarzenegger-type body with the head of a woman on top, you know, long hair and a female face, and with this puny little guy next to her in his underpants and who looked kind of like Thomas Crooks, sort of in a sort of an inferior position, if you get my drift.
00:22:12.000 So there's that.
00:22:14.000 And then the other stuff he had on this DeviantArt platform was violent.
00:22:17.000 It was cartoon characters shooting each other in the head, you know, killing each other.
00:22:23.000 So, I mean, that's all very strange.
00:22:25.000 All of his utterances that are on YouTube and so on are increasingly very weird that he flips from being very pro-Trump and anti-Democrat, particularly anti, you know, the squad Ilan Omar and so on.
00:22:41.000 And then he flips in the matter of a couple of months in January 2020 to the opposite, does a 180, and now he's very anti-Trump, critical of Trump supporters, and starts escalating into this assassination rhetoric.
00:22:57.000 Hey, Miranda Blake here.
00:22:59.000 And I guess the thing that came to mind with the article yesterday, so you mentioned the weird furry art or just kind of strange art in general.
00:23:09.000 But the article doesn't have any photos of that.
00:23:12.000 I guess, is there a reason that choice was made?
00:23:15.000 Or is it no longer available and we only know by implication?
00:23:19.000 I actually tweeted out one of the images and then my colleague Josh Christensen did a follow-up today with all of the images from my source's research.
00:23:32.000 So all those violent cartoon figures, I think there's about three images of that.
00:23:38.000 And then the muscle bound, I can't remember, Josh called it something, something like muscle mummy or something.
00:23:45.000 And we published that today.
00:23:47.000 So that's in the New York Post today.
00:23:50.000 So, Miranda, there was a congressional report released in December 2024 that did not include a lot of this social media activity.
00:24:03.000 Do we know why that this was not mentioned in that congressional report in December of 2024?
00:24:09.000 You know, that's a really good point because this was something that really disturbed my source and set him to continue to investigate and also try to get this into the hands of people who would do something about it.
00:24:24.000 He's very concerned that the public doesn't know why the assassination attempt happened and that it could escalate.
00:24:34.000 And, you know, if I mean, we're told by the FBI currently that Crooks acted alone.
00:24:40.000 This is what Kash Patel has said just in a tweet online where he ran through all the inputs that the FBI put into the investigation, which I think is frankly quite meaningless.
00:24:53.000 You know, we followed up 14,000 tips or we, you know, did 10,000 interviews, whatever they did.
00:24:58.000 He had all the metrics, but that's the inputs.
00:25:01.000 What's the outputs?
00:25:03.000 What came of all that effort?
00:25:05.000 And all he does at the end is this conclusion that we've concluded that he acted alone.
00:25:11.000 So my source just thinks there's something more to this.
00:25:15.000 And so therefore he pursued it.
00:25:18.000 And the fact that that congressional report had nothing about the online activity would be because the FBI didn't share that with them.
00:25:28.000 The only sort of time that I guess the FBI under Christopher Wray, just in the two weeks after the Butler events, Christopher Wray a week later testified to Congress.
00:25:44.000 He said, there's no, we've searched our database and there's nothing about Thomas Crookes before Butler, right?
00:25:53.000 Very carefully that he said that.
00:25:55.000 Now, I asked the FBI when I was doing this story last week a number of questions.
00:26:01.000 And the most important one, I think, was, did you have any contact with Thomas Crookes?
00:26:07.000 Did the FBI have any contact with Thomas Crookes before Butler?
00:26:10.000 Did anyone report him to the FBI?
00:26:14.000 Did you pay him a visit?
00:26:15.000 Did you knock on his door?
00:26:17.000 Were you aware of his online activity?
00:26:19.000 Does he appear anywhere?
00:26:21.000 And all I got back was no comment from the FII.
00:26:25.000 And, you know, they've not been forthcoming with Congress.
00:26:31.000 Senator Ron Johnson has been really angry about this, angry about the fact that even the Trump FBI, 12 months after Butler in July of this year, has not complied with his oversight requests.
00:26:48.000 He wants camera footage.
00:26:50.000 He wants documents.
00:26:51.000 He wants forensics, autopsy, etc.
00:26:54.000 And he's just, he says he's been stonewalled by the FBI and the Secret Service.
00:27:00.000 And I don't understand why that is.
00:27:03.000 If it's as clear and simple as Kash Patel is telling us that, you know, just this lone gunman acting alone, et cetera, why be secretive about his online activity?
00:27:15.000 Why did Deputy Director Paul Abate, who was Ray's deputy director at the FBI, why did he testify to Congress two weeks after Butler and say only half the story?
00:27:29.000 He described Thomas Crook's online activity leading up to when he flipped and became anti-Trump, when he was anti-Semitic and sort of expressing sort of far-right views.
00:27:42.000 But Paul Abate didn't tell Congress, and I think this is lying by omission, that in January of 2020, this kid flipped and became rabidly anti-Trump and started then with his violent assassination rhetoric.
00:27:58.000 Why did Paul Abate leave that out?
00:28:01.000 That was deliberate misleading of Congress.
00:28:03.000 And the question is, why?
00:28:06.000 And why does Kash Patel not be more forthcoming?
00:28:11.000 And look, the president is not satisfied.
00:28:13.000 His family is not satisfied.
00:28:16.000 So I don't, something doesn't add up here.
00:28:19.000 Well, there's a lot that doesn't add up.
00:28:21.000 I mean, you've got the fact that Christopher Wray told Congress on July 24th, 2024, 11 days after the shooting, that the Bureau did not have any prior information about the shooter.
00:28:30.000 And now they're saying no comment.
00:28:33.000 So, you know, why wouldn't they either just confirm what Christopher Wray said or add additional context, right?
00:28:39.000 Because the other thing that doesn't add up, the sort of big E on the eye chart, as it were, Miranda, is that there's apparently zero social media footprint from this kid from 2020 to 2024.
00:28:51.000 He just disappeared?
00:28:52.000 Like we're supposed to just conclude that a young man who had 19 profiles, apparently, that you guys investigated and have data on, that they all just went away.
00:29:04.000 Yeah, it's very strange.
00:29:06.000 From August of 2020, just after his most violent post or comment when he's talking about assassinating political leaders and military leaders, he goes dark.
00:29:19.000 He just disappears.
00:29:21.000 The other thing that happened around that time after which he disappeared was he started to have communications with a figure called Willy Teppis, which I don't believe is his real name, but it's what he used when he interacted with Thomas Crookes.
00:29:35.000 And Willie Teppis is a neo-Nazi involved with a Norwegian neo-Nazi group that has since been designated a terrorist organization by the State Department.
00:29:48.000 They did that designation in June of 2024, a month before Butler.
00:29:54.000 I'm not sure if, I mean, that's probably just a coincidence, but Willie Tepis sort of seemed to encourage this violent rhetoric from Thomas Crookes.
00:30:05.000 He would say things like, you know, Maoist phrases like, you can only achieve anything through the muzzle of a gun, a phrase that Crookes loved to repeat.
00:30:17.000 And so shortly after that, Crooks goes dark.
00:30:20.000 And I've been told by, you know, people in the intelligence agencies that there's no way that this Norwegian neo-Nazi terrorist would not have been on the radar of the CIA.
00:30:38.000 And if that were the case, the CIA would inform the FBI of any interactions that he had with an American citizen.
00:30:46.000 And, you know, you can say, oh, all this stuff happened online.
00:30:49.000 How would the FBI know?
00:30:50.000 Well, again, I've talked to FBI people, including a very high-ranking former FBI agent whose name appears as the alias that Thomas Crookes used on his PayPal account, Rod Swanson.
00:31:07.000 He's a very senior former FBI guy, was in Vegas, was running criminal investigations for the state of Nevada after he left the FBI and during the time of the Las Vegas mass shooting.
00:31:20.000 That again is someone who's disappeared offline, has no friends, another mystery, no motive found, similar to Thomas Crooks, although he's in his 60s.
00:31:34.000 We're honored to be partnering with Alan Jackson Ministries, and today I want to point you to their podcast.
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00:32:36.000 All right, Miranda.
00:32:38.000 So this Rod Swanson, I don't know if you want to chime in, Blake, but this Rod Swanson guy, I mean, he was a shooting instructor or something like this in Pennsylvania, which is obviously where Butler is located.
00:32:47.000 Do we have any indication that these two might have run into each other at some point, that their paths might have crossed?
00:32:53.000 I don't think so.
00:32:54.000 I've talked to Rod Swanson.
00:32:56.000 He seems an authentic, legitimate person.
00:33:00.000 I mean, as far as I can tell, he was genuinely, seemed to be genuinely surprised that I was calling and that I was asking or that I told him about this PayPal account.
00:33:13.000 And he was flummoxed.
00:33:14.000 He said, why, you know, if that's, if I'm involved in this, why didn't the FBI contact him?
00:33:22.000 I don't understand that either.
00:33:24.000 Why wouldn't the FBI contact a person who is a former FBI agent whose name Thomas Crooks uses as an alias for his PayPal account?
00:33:34.000 Now, my source initially, there's a character in Parks and Recreation called Ron Swanson.
00:33:40.000 So my source initially thought maybe that's the person.
00:33:44.000 But, you know, I just, this is a very high IQ guy, Thomas Crooks.
00:33:51.000 We've seen his school report.
00:33:54.000 His teachers have been quoted saying that he was highly intelligent.
00:33:59.000 He was pretty precise.
00:34:01.000 So maybe he did mean the guy from Parks and Rex.
00:34:05.000 But when I look up the name Rod Swanson, the actual name he used as the alias, and it turns out to be a former FBI agent who was involved in the investigation of the Las Vegas mass shooting, which bears some resemblance, I immediately call him up and he says doesn't have a PayPal account, doesn't know how to set one up, had never met Thomas Crooks.
00:34:27.000 So Rod Swanson is this guy that was involved at a very high level, it sounds like, investigating the Las Vegas massacre shooting, which would strike me as something that a young, online young man would be hyper aware of and kind of fascinated because I mean the conspiracy theories ran wild with that one because we never really did find out what the motive was.
00:34:52.000 We never got a real clear narrative.
00:34:54.000 It seems to have been a shooting caused by pure boomer enui or something.
00:34:58.000 Yeah, it's just this guy.
00:35:00.000 You could see his family members and you're like, okay, this guy might be weird enough to do a mass shooting.
00:35:05.000 We never got He didn't leave a manifesto, and sometimes that's how it is.
00:35:10.000 So, to see this kid referencing another sort of very high-profile event.
00:35:16.000 I think, you know, Pozzo told us it's like a guy having the name Bromer Simpson on him.
00:35:22.000 Yeah.
00:35:22.000 Right.
00:35:22.000 I mean, that's possible.
00:35:24.000 There's so many unanswered questions.
00:35:26.000 I guess if you're going to sum this up for us, Miranda, we've got these weird online presence that just goes dark.
00:35:33.000 He's referencing FBI investigators from Las Vegas Massacre.
00:35:37.000 What questions remain and where do we go from here?
00:35:40.000 I'll just clear up one thing about Rod Swanson.
00:35:43.000 He was not investigating Las Vegas.
00:35:46.000 He was at that point running criminal investigations for the state of Nevada.
00:35:51.000 So he was peripherally involved talking to victims and so on, but wasn't investigating it.
00:35:58.000 He seems like a decent guy.
00:35:59.000 He said to me, it's inconceivable that the FBI didn't knock on the door of this kid.
00:36:05.000 So I think that's the big question is, did the FBI knock on the door, which everybody involved in law enforcement says would have had to have happened?
00:36:15.000 Did they have some involvement with him because of this violent online rhetoric?
00:36:20.000 How involved were they?
00:36:22.000 And if they were involved, why aren't they telling us about it?
00:36:26.000 Why is the Trump FBI just not commenting and going dark as well?
00:36:32.000 Why aren't they giving us chapter and verse on what motivated this guy?
00:36:37.000 Why is there so much secrecy in terms of the oversight by the Senate?
00:36:44.000 Clay Higgins found a whole lot of other interesting and disturbing information, like, for instance, that they cremated the body soon after.
00:36:54.000 That, I mean, another source has told me that the toxicology isn't comprehensive as it should be.
00:37:04.000 There's a lot of weird things, hosing the roof down, etc.
00:37:09.000 I don't know why Kash Patel doesn't tell the American people exactly what's going on instead of just saying no comment.
00:37:18.000 Yeah, there's a lot there.
00:37:20.000 And I remember the cremation of the body, too, which is very suspicious.
00:37:25.000 None of the, I'll be honest, and I try to have, listen, having been the subject of some conspiracy theories more recently, I view them all with suspicion now because I will just tell you, there's like a thousand mistakes that get made in every assumption that leads to conspiracy theories.
00:37:43.000 So I try to be very cautious, conservative when approaching these things, but it's just, it does seem true that some of this stuff just seems just like there's massive gaping holes in this story.
00:37:55.000 And you would think the FBI would be, especially with the turnover of administrations, they would be motivated to clear some of this up.
00:38:01.000 I'm excited to see your future reporting, Miranda, because I know that you're going to remain on this now that you've caused quite a stir with this first offering here.
00:38:11.000 Thanks so much, Andrew.
00:38:12.000 And that's just the most important message, I think, of all of this is what you just said is none of us want to engage in conspiracy theories.
00:38:20.000 It drives people mad.
00:38:22.000 You've experienced that yourself.
00:38:24.000 So many rabbit holes that people plunge down when there's a vacuum of information, when there's a huge important story like this, where the president has almost been assassinated, and we have a vacuum of information, conspiracy theories rush in.
00:38:40.000 So it's really incumbent on those people in charge to just be straightforward and open and honest to the furthest extent that they're able to while maintaining, you know, operational security or national security or whatever it is they're worrying about.
00:38:55.000 Yeah, well said.
00:38:56.000 Miranda Devine, New York Post, author of The Big Guy.
00:38:59.000 Thank you so much for your time, Miranda.
00:39:01.000 I know you got a dash.
00:39:02.000 Thank you.
00:39:02.000 All right.
00:39:03.000 God bless you.
00:39:05.000 Blake, are you satisfied with the Butler story?
00:39:09.000 You are a very contrarian, non-conspiratorial.
00:39:12.000 No, I feel like the best argument I've heard is that Trump seems pretty satisfied with the ISA.
00:39:16.000 He said they're not satisfied, nor is the family.
00:39:18.000 Well, he's never said that he's super disappointed with it or anything.
00:39:23.000 When they ask him about it, he mostly does just say, ah, you know, they've told me this, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:28.000 Like, I don't know.
00:39:30.000 Like, there's always...
00:39:33.000 With big events, there's always a desire to have bigger forces behind it.
00:39:42.000 And I think that leads people down a lot of rabbit holes.
00:39:44.000 And the Vegas shooting is the most egregious example.
00:39:46.000 We had people running around with wild...
00:39:48.000 It was a joint ISIS Antifa operation.
00:39:50.000 That was one I heard.
00:39:51.000 It's a weird one.
00:39:52.000 It was weird. 0.95
00:39:53.000 Shooters are crazy. 0.99
00:39:54.000 It could just be some crazy guy. 1.00
00:39:56.000 People who do mass shootings are nuts. 0.99
00:39:58.000 They often have idiosyncratic motives that don't make a lot of sense because if you're a person who's sane, you don't try to murder a bunch of people. 0.95
00:40:06.000 And so when you dive deep into it, you often get baffling stuff.
00:40:10.000 And, you know, I suspect there might be a thing they're hiding where they had contact with him where they should have known he was going to do it.
00:40:17.000 But one of the things is just there's a lot of crazy people in America and not all of them are going to be arrested. 0.75
00:40:23.000 Sounds true.
00:40:24.000 We'll see you tomorrow, guys.
00:40:30.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.