The Charlie Kirk Show - The House Speaker Apocalypse with Abe Hamadeh and Tyler Bowyer

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Today in the Charlie Kirk show, Abe Hamiday joins us for the latest in his race in Arizona.

00:00:05.000 And then Tyler Boyer joins us to talk about the RNC race and the ever interesting and dramatic Speaker of the House race.

00:00:12.000 Email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com and support our program at charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:00:18.000 And make sure you get involved with Turning PointUSA today at tpusa.com.

00:00:24.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:27.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:28.000 Here we go.

00:00:30.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:31.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:33.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:37.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:40.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:41.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:42.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:51.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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00:01:14.000 Joining us right now is Abe Hamaday, who I believe was treated so terribly by the Arizona election system, Maricopa County, and others.

00:01:23.000 The latest tally says he's down 200-something votes, and his lawsuit is very sharply written.

00:01:28.000 And I look forward to an update from him.

00:01:29.000 Abe, welcome back to the program.

00:01:31.000 Thanks for having me on, Charlie.

00:01:32.000 Good to be with you.

00:01:33.000 Abe, what is the latest in regards to your ever confusing and contentious lawsuit in the state of Arizona?

00:01:41.000 What's going on?

00:01:42.000 Well, just like what, you know, Carrie Lake and me were still in this fight.

00:01:45.000 If you look at what happened over the holiday break, Charlie, there is a recount, right?

00:01:50.000 This is separate from the election contest that I want people to understand.

00:01:54.000 The election lawsuit was separate than the recount.

00:01:56.000 Since my race was closed, it was within half a percentage point.

00:02:00.000 It was the closest race in Arizona history.

00:02:03.000 It was subject to a recount, automatic recount.

00:02:06.000 We were down 511 votes going into that recount, and now we are down 280.

00:02:12.000 I mean, that was such a huge disparity, right?

00:02:16.000 I mean, you had, I won over 420 votes.

00:02:19.000 She got about 190 votes.

00:02:20.000 In Arizona history, recounts have only altered about 14 votes.

00:02:26.000 This was a 600-vote spread.

00:02:28.000 It was quite shocking.

00:02:29.000 And the reason why is because Canal County, another incompetent county besides Maricopa, apparently they found ballots.

00:02:37.000 Luckily, they were in my favor.

00:02:39.000 But what also happened was that they started to discover that these tabulation machines were not counting certain votes correctly.

00:02:46.000 This is unbelievable.

00:02:48.000 And so, so, Abe, I don't mean to interrupt, but that's almost a 45% change in the margin differential.

00:02:54.000 And that's just one recount, right?

00:02:57.000 That's just in one way.

00:02:58.000 What about Pima County? 0.99

00:03:00.000 Pima County is run by a bunch of criminals. 0.98

00:03:03.000 Exactly.

00:03:04.000 So you're right about the whole idea about why we're so confident about this new election lawsuit where we're just filing in right now a new motion for a new trial.

00:03:13.000 Because Charlie, we didn't have these facts going into our first lawsuit that we lost by because we had no evidence.

00:03:20.000 But you know who did have the facts?

00:03:21.000 It was Secretary of State Katie Hobbs at the time.

00:03:25.000 She had all the facts and she withheld this from the court.

00:03:28.000 She withheld this from me.

00:03:30.000 So we weren't able to present any of this evidence.

00:03:33.000 And she's trying to claim that the recount was secret.

00:03:36.000 So she didn't have a duty to disclose.

00:03:38.000 That's completely wrong.

00:03:39.000 And today, when we're going to file our new motion for a new trial, the judge got snookered, Charlie.

00:03:45.000 Let's be real.

00:03:45.000 You know, I give Democrats a lot of credit.

00:03:48.000 They are relentless and ruthless in getting what they want.

00:03:51.000 They're so unethical. 1.00

00:03:52.000 These people are a bunch of snakes. 0.99

00:03:56.000 But now, so just so everyone knows, and this is an unfortunate fact, Katie Hobbs is now governor of Arizona. 0.97

00:04:01.000 She was sworn in yesterday, not even able to do the oath of office. 0.62

00:04:04.000 What you're saying, though, Abe, is that she withheld information.

00:04:07.000 She paused and she delayed, probably intentionally to destroy your race and protect her own. 0.97

00:04:14.000 Is that right?

00:04:15.000 That's completely right.

00:04:16.000 She wanted to get her ally, Chris Mays, who also took the oath of office yesterday.

00:04:20.000 The recount results were supposed to be announced on December 22nd.

00:04:25.000 They pushed it back a week because of our intentionally, and they knew that we would have no time.

00:04:32.000 And it was a holiday weekend, January 1st, New Year's.

00:04:35.000 And so my opponent was sworn in.

00:04:37.000 But again, Charlie, in Arizona, we have removed a sitting governor before, by the way.

00:04:41.000 We've done that.

00:04:42.000 And with this case being, what do you mean?

00:04:44.000 That's interesting.

00:04:45.000 What do you mean by that?

00:04:46.000 Tell me about that.

00:04:47.000 The whole election contest in Arizona hinges on this one case called Hunt v. Campbell.

00:04:53.000 At the time in 1916, the sitting governor, he lost his election supposedly by 30 votes out of 55,000, which, by the way, is a bigger margin than my race with 280 out of 2.5 million.

00:05:05.000 But after all the litigation went through, months went by, the governor, the de facto governor in effect, was removed from office, had to pay back his salary.

00:05:14.000 And then the rightful winner took office.

00:05:17.000 So there is precedent for this to happen.

00:05:19.000 I know a lot of people like to throw out hyperbole.

00:05:22.000 You know, I'm a pretty measured person, Charlie.

00:05:24.000 I wouldn't be in this fight if I didn't think we had a chance and if I didn't think that there were legitimate problems on the election.

00:05:29.000 Right now, I'll give hope to your listeners and your viewers right now.

00:05:32.000 We were going into our first lawsuit down 511 votes.

00:05:36.000 This new fact that just came out, we are now going into a lawsuit down 280, and there's still thousands of uncounted ballots.

00:05:44.000 There's 50,000 plus under votes in Maricopa County.

00:05:49.000 Those are people who supposedly skipped the attorney general race.

00:05:52.000 But what we just discovered in Pinal County was there was about 65 ballots there that were counted as under votes that actually went my way.

00:06:01.000 And that's where we're talking about these tabulation machines are not reading it correctly.

00:06:05.000 What we need to do and what President Trump just came out with a statement the other day, he wants a full hand recount.

00:06:11.000 What's that?

00:06:12.000 I mean, this is so wrong, Abe.

00:06:14.000 You have millions of votes cast.

00:06:16.000 What, 2.4 million, right?

00:06:17.000 Is that correct?

00:06:18.000 2.4, 2.5 million, right?

00:06:21.000 Is that about right?

00:06:22.000 Yeah.

00:06:22.000 And your differential, you're down 280 votes.

00:06:26.000 And the way that the current regime works in Arizona is that they just let's just implement them, throw them into office.

00:06:32.000 This is so wrong.

00:06:34.000 And not to mention the signature verification issues, the chain of custody issues.

00:06:39.000 Imagine, Abe, forget Pima County, just Coconino County.

00:06:43.000 Imagine how much nonsense is in Coconino.

00:06:46.000 Flagstaff, you know, NAU.

00:06:49.000 And so what is the remedy then here, Abe?

00:06:52.000 What is the path forward?

00:06:53.000 So currently, Katie Hobbs is governor, and currently Chris Mays is the Attorney General of Arizona.

00:06:59.000 But you're contending that you're not going to give up.

00:07:02.000 Is that correct?

00:07:04.000 Well, that's absolutely right. 0.92

00:07:05.000 And if you remember, Carrie Lake had her election lawsuit basically the same time mine was going on.

00:07:10.000 And what we discovered in her lawsuit is helping our case.

00:07:14.000 I mean, what they discovered was those 19-inch ballots when only 20-inch ballots were supposed to be printed.

00:07:19.000 So that's going to help our case.

00:07:21.000 But ultimately, what's going to happen is we're filing this new motion for new trial.

00:07:26.000 If the judge grants it, we're going to put on a whole new trial again and get proper time to actually go through the ballots.

00:07:32.000 Last time, the judge gave us six hours to go through millions of ballots, Charlie, because he was pushed around by the Secretary of State, Katie Hobbs, and Chris Mays' legal team.

00:07:43.000 That's what I mean when I say I give Democrats credit.

00:07:45.000 They intimidated this judge.

00:07:47.000 They basically withheld information.

00:07:49.000 They snookered him.

00:07:50.000 And if I were him, I would be really pissed off right now because what's going on?

00:07:54.000 I mean, they have basically taken this in broad daylight with the court system because when one side, Republicans, only play by the rules, the other side doesn't care.

00:08:05.000 We can't operate in a system like that.

00:08:06.000 No, they've never cared about the rules.

00:08:08.000 Abe, how can people help you or support you in this critical juncture and effort?

00:08:12.000 Well, right now, you know, we've got very good, generous donors for helping out our legal efforts, which I'm super thankful for.

00:08:18.000 But it's just to keep spreading the message around.

00:08:21.000 Get the message around.

00:08:22.000 I know in Pinal County tomorrow actually has a public meeting to discuss why they even certified their election, knowing that they had this huge discrepancy prior to even the recount.

00:08:33.000 You know, I would encourage people to go out there, go confront your government officials.

00:08:37.000 And for everybody else, just to keep the word out.

00:08:39.000 This fight is not over in Arizona by any means right now.

00:08:43.000 And I'm going to fight this until we actually know who legitimately won this election.

00:08:47.000 Abe, thank you for fighting.

00:08:48.000 We have your back.

00:08:49.000 It's so wrong what's happened to you.

00:08:50.000 Abe, thank you so much.

00:08:52.000 Thanks, Charlie.

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00:09:40.000 And so the House of Representatives is about to go into recess and the votes, they are going one by one by one.

00:09:48.000 So there have been five Republicans that have said they are not going to support Kevin McCarthy.

00:09:55.000 And so Kevin has a couple options.

00:09:58.000 Based on all of your emails and our audience, you guys have a very negative view of Kevin McCarthy.

00:10:04.000 And I generally understand the skepticism, the apprehension, and the cynicism towards all Republican leadership.

00:10:11.000 I've told you guys before, Kevin was very sweet to our turning point USA leaders a couple years ago.

00:10:16.000 And he was actually, he's always been very honest.

00:10:18.000 I mean, he's not, I don't think he's a movement conservative, but he's also not Paul Ryan.

00:10:22.000 I don't think that's fair.

00:10:23.000 But here's a legitimate thing.

00:10:24.000 Now, Kevin McCarthy has an option.

00:10:26.000 Kevin can keep on negotiating with the House Freedom Caucus.

00:10:29.000 Kevin can try to go to Democrats to get votes.

00:10:32.000 Or there could be other people that are going to be proposed for Speaker of the House.

00:10:37.000 There can be Jim Jordan.

00:10:40.000 There can be Justin Amash.

00:10:42.000 There can be Evan Kinzinger.

00:10:43.000 There can be Liz Cheney.

00:10:45.000 And you might say, oh, well, what Republicans will vote for those people? 0.91

00:10:48.000 All you need is a few.

00:10:50.000 Democrats would consider it a massive accomplishment right now to be able to block all investigations in a mayorkus into Biden by getting a uniparty type speaker.

00:11:02.000 And so Democrats right now, they know they're not going to be able to take back the House.

00:11:06.000 That's not what I'm saying.

00:11:07.000 People say, Charlie, Democrats are going to take over the House.

00:11:09.000 That's not what I've said.

00:11:10.000 I say Republicans could lose it.

00:11:13.000 That's a completely different thing.

00:11:15.000 So Democrats right now, because Democrats understand power and Republicans, we're still learning.

00:11:21.000 We got a lot of Machiavelli still to read.

00:11:24.000 Democrats will enthusiastically go for a compromise candidate, all of them, basically, if they could pick off five Republicans.

00:11:31.000 That would mean no oversight of any agencies.

00:11:34.000 That would mean no oversight of Google, no oversight of Twitter, no oversight of the FBI, none of it.

00:11:39.000 And there's at least 12 rhinos in the House that will go along with this because they'll probably get put as chair of committees.

00:11:46.000 Now, some of you say, well, Charlie, I just called Don Bacon's office and he assures me he's not doing this.

00:11:53.000 He's not talking to Democrats.

00:11:54.000 Of course, he's going to deny it. 0.98

00:11:56.000 He's already said publicly, first and foremost: look, there is a type of Republican out there, and there's about 20 or 30 of them that are worse than rhinos.

00:12:05.000 They are more moderate than Paul Ryan.

00:12:07.000 I know that's hard to believe.

00:12:08.000 They're extraordinarily moderate.

00:12:10.000 And so what they will see this as an opportunity.

00:12:14.000 They will smell blood.

00:12:14.000 They will see blood in the water.

00:12:16.000 While the Freedom Caucus thinks they have all the power, and that's probably true right now.

00:12:23.000 There are these silent rhinos, about 20 of them, that are going to meet in conference right now.

00:12:29.000 And they're going to say, let's just go for Justin Amash.

00:12:32.000 Let's go meet with Jeffries, make Jeffries the whip, make Justin Amash Speaker of the House.

00:12:40.000 20 of us will caucus with Democrats.

00:12:43.000 And yeah, you'll probably lose five to 10 Democrats, but they're going to be in more power than they even thought they would be.

00:12:48.000 And then they're going to start cutting deals with Amash.

00:12:51.000 And there goes all of your subpoena power, your oversight, Jim Jordan, Marjorie Taylor Greene, they will be in another cycle of a House majority.

00:12:58.000 Now, some of you are a minority.

00:13:00.000 Some of you are saying, well, Charlie, that's fear-mongering.

00:13:03.000 No, I think it's actually a rational fear.

00:13:07.000 It's a rational fear that right now, there are lobbyists that are running the halls.

00:13:13.000 I know this for certain that are trying to now get someone like Liz Cheney or Don Bacon or Adam Kinzinger Speaker of the House.

00:13:22.000 It's happening right now.

00:13:23.000 Those deals are trying to get cut.

00:13:28.000 Someone says here: Charlie McCarthy has no business being Speaker.

00:13:32.000 Everyone in D.C. has their hands in their pockets.

00:13:34.000 He's the definition of a swamp rat uniparty rhino, anybody but him.

00:13:38.000 Now, William's a fan of the show, and I appreciate that.

00:13:41.000 I don't think he means anybody, though.

00:13:45.000 I don't think you would want Liz Cheney as Speaker of the House more than Kevin McCarthy.

00:13:49.000 That is not prudent.

00:13:51.000 That is allowing your enthusiasm of hatred against establishment Republicans to allow you to capture reason critical thinking.

00:14:03.000 Politics is about power.

00:14:06.000 Power is the currency that allows political progress to be made possible.

00:14:11.000 And the fact is, we do not have enough power to simply demand everything that we want.

00:14:16.000 Jim Jordan, which I think we all support, he's about to become chairman of the House Oversight Committee.

00:14:22.000 Do not tell me that is nothing.

00:14:25.000 That's a big deal.

00:14:27.000 Now, what's the best case scenario?

00:14:29.000 Here's the, you say, well, Charlie, is there anything good that could happen?

00:14:32.000 Yes, there is a chance that through this process, you get an even more conservative speaker.

00:14:39.000 That is a lower likelihood then, actually, than the higher likelihood is someone like Scalese, who's actually more moderate than Paul Ryan.

00:14:50.000 You're like, oh, yeah, I like Steve Scalise.

00:14:52.000 He's more moderate than Kevin McCarthy.

00:14:53.000 Steve Scalise is buddies with Liz Cheney.

00:14:55.000 So you hate Kevin McCarthy so much you would rather have a Liz Cheneyite?

00:14:59.000 Kevin McCarthy is not buddies with Liz Cheney.

00:15:01.000 They got in public feuds repeatedly, and he supported Harriet Hageman.

00:15:09.000 You got a big risk that has been entered into the calculus in the equation.

00:15:14.000 As Trump says, we'll see what happens.

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00:16:22.000 With us, Tyler Boyer, who runs Turning Point Action.

00:16:25.000 It's good to see you.

00:16:26.000 Also one of the 168 who Rana says, I only talk to the 168.

00:16:32.000 That's what she said.

00:16:33.000 I don't know if she's talking to you, though.

00:16:34.000 167.

00:16:35.000 Yeah, 167.

00:16:36.000 Confirmed.

00:16:37.000 I mean, look, again, we've talked about this at length prior to Christmas.

00:16:42.000 You know, this is a big deal, this leadership race.

00:16:46.000 And there's only 168 people, you know, that represent the states and territories who call the shots for the Republican Party at the national level.

00:16:55.000 And I want to reiterate something for a lot of people because a lot of people are like, oh, well, the RNC doesn't matter.

00:17:01.000 No, there's a lot that matters.

00:17:02.000 There's a lot that matters to the RNC.

00:17:04.000 Yeah, that is the call point where the strategy and the prioritization of how we win, that's where it all starts.

00:17:14.000 And if you don't have an RNC that's functioning on your behalf, that is smart, that is focusing on the states that we need to absolutely win, first the presidency and then our federal, most important federal races, we're going to lose.

00:17:27.000 We're going to lose the entire country.

00:17:29.000 So we're monitoring two things at once.

00:17:32.000 We are monitoring the RNC race that's happening on 127, right?

00:17:37.000 Is that correct?

00:17:38.000 Yeah.

00:17:38.000 That's correct.

00:17:39.000 The 27th?

00:17:39.000 Yep, 24 days.

00:17:41.000 And then also right now, the speaker of the house race, which is going to put the house into suspense, which they're doing roll call.

00:17:49.000 And I think Andy Biggs has 10 votes.

00:17:52.000 So there's a lot more people that are defecting from Kevin McCarthy than people would have imagined.

00:17:57.000 This puts it into now conference.

00:18:02.000 And therefore, there could be a uniparty.

00:18:05.000 Speaker, right, Tyler, this is a real thing.

00:18:07.000 In fact, I got a text from a Hill staffer where he said, now there's a legit possibility the House majority is eliminated.

00:18:14.000 This is from a House staffer.

00:18:16.000 He says that deals are already starting to get cut to try to bring someone like Liz Cheney to become Speaker of the House.

00:18:22.000 Yeah, I mean, that would be the worst case scenario that happens out of this entire thing.

00:18:29.000 I mean, I'll tell you what, this is this speaker.

00:18:32.000 I have a little bit of a different take on the speakers race.

00:18:36.000 The in-depth conversation is not very different from this entire RNC race conversation, which is the Republican Party has a real issue right now.

00:18:45.000 And it's that we are not working together the way that we're supposed to be working together.

00:18:49.000 We're not communicating.

00:18:50.000 So again, you just said, hey, Ronna says she talks to the 168.

00:18:54.000 Well, she doesn't talk to the 10.

00:18:55.000 I'm one of the 168. 0.94

00:18:56.000 She doesn't even talk to the people. 0.88

00:18:57.000 She doesn't talk to our entire state in Arizona. 0.69

00:18:59.000 I can tell you that.

00:19:00.000 So that's at least three of the 168 that she's been talking to.

00:19:02.000 I know for a fact there's dozens of others that she doesn't actually talk to.

00:19:06.000 And so the fact is, I think this is the same issue with Kevin McCarthy.

00:19:09.000 And I, you know, and again, I actually, you have a lot of good things to say about Kevin.

00:19:13.000 I actually think that Ron is a nice person, but we need more than nice.

00:19:17.000 We need people who are strategic and can communicate.

00:19:20.000 Can this issue that's happening right now on the floor be avoided?

00:19:24.000 Probably.

00:19:25.000 Without a doubt.

00:19:25.000 If we, if we can work together a little bit better, if we bring people in, if we actually make concessions that the Freedom Caucus want in ahead of time, that could have been avoided.

00:19:34.000 I totally agree.

00:19:34.000 And I'm not, I've never been carrying the banner of Kevin McCarthy.

00:19:38.000 No, my whole fear this whole time has been this.

00:19:40.000 No, this situation was I was told by people in our audience, Charlie, you are wrong and fear-mongering that this thing's going to go back into conference.

00:19:49.000 It's now going back into conference.

00:19:51.000 First time in 100 years.

00:19:52.000 That's probably that's a risk.

00:19:55.000 You now have a risk of a Liz Cheney speaker of the House.

00:19:57.000 If you don't acknowledge that, you're not living in reality.

00:20:00.000 Yeah.

00:20:00.000 Look, I mean, if that happens, if something like that happens, I will tell you this, though.

00:20:05.000 But this is the hole that the establishment digs itself into, right?

00:20:10.000 If that happens, we will see the greatest turnover in the history of the Republican Party in Congress, which doesn't happen.

00:20:18.000 We see the low approval ratings for Congress year in and year out.

00:20:21.000 But what always happens?

00:20:22.000 Same guys get elected over and over and over, right?

00:20:25.000 It just doesn't change.

00:20:26.000 I will tell you this.

00:20:27.000 If Liz Cheney becomes speaker, people are going to be very upset about it.

00:20:31.000 And a Liz Cheney-esque type person, right?

00:20:33.000 So Justin Amash is being floated right now, who's just the same thing.

00:20:37.000 But Liz Cheney, think about it. 0.96

00:20:39.000 A lot of Democrats would vote for Liz Cheney. 0.99

00:20:41.000 Oh, totally.

00:20:41.000 At least 20 or 30 Republicans will vote for Liz Cheney.

00:20:44.000 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:20:45.000 And she would happily obliterate a Republican majority.

00:20:49.000 So that would mean is that every committee would have equal representation, which means that no subpoenas of Biden, no subpoenas of Twitter, no subpoenas of the FBI, no subpoenas of the border.

00:20:59.000 It would effectively destroy the House majority.

00:21:02.000 Yeah, it would.

00:21:03.000 And so, but you're right is that the weeks leading up to this, McCarthy team and others should have been more assertive in brokering a deal with the House Freedom Caucus.

00:21:14.000 Is that right?

00:21:14.000 They shut down a majority of what the Freedom Caucus had asked for.

00:21:19.000 And I think that was a bad mistake.

00:21:20.000 Because I think if the McCarthy team would have, I mean, a lot of what the Freedom Caucus was asking for is like what the movement wants, like in general.

00:21:29.000 So votes on term limits.

00:21:31.000 Yeah, I mean, I mean, all this stuff's going to go to die anyways.

00:21:34.000 We're living under Biden, right?

00:21:36.000 Like, so like, why not be the most conservative speaker ever, unexpectedly, right?

00:21:42.000 Unexpectedly, the most conservative speaker that the Republican Party has had, maybe since Newt Gingrich, right?

00:21:47.000 Maybe beyond that, because even like a lot of the conservatives didn't like Newt Gingrich at the time.

00:21:51.000 But like he could have worn that banner and been a leader in that way.

00:21:56.000 And he's done it with Trump.

00:21:59.000 So all he had to do was kind of get across the finish line and get a couple of these guys of the Freedom Caucus to like really carry that banner.

00:22:06.000 And I think we were, I think he was really close.

00:22:09.000 But, you know, they pushed too many buttons and we have a much more fractured party after these last terms.

00:22:15.000 And again, also, I'll say this point.

00:22:17.000 Had the Republicans done better.

00:22:20.000 I mean, number one, this won't even be an issue to begin with.

00:22:22.000 Had they done better.

00:22:23.000 So that's Kevin McCarthy's own bed that was made here.

00:22:27.000 But you would have you, you, you would have more of a reason to shut down the Freedom Caucus on these things.

00:22:37.000 The situation that we're in now is that in most states, and this includes Arizona, we are losing, but we're losing by the minority of the party that are in the establishment who aren't getting on board for an America first agenda.

00:22:52.000 And that's kind of what's happening here in Congress.

00:22:54.000 That's what's happening at the RNC level.

00:22:56.000 That's what's happening in some state parties right now.

00:22:59.000 And we just have to come to the realization that we have to work together.

00:23:03.000 And that might mean a more America first party and then work our way down from there.

00:23:09.000 And that's okay.

00:23:11.000 Yeah.

00:23:11.000 And so this is now being put into a big question.

00:23:14.000 And the majority of our audience, the emails we're receiving, just so we're clear, is that most of our audience says it's okay if we lose the House of Representatives as long as it's not McCarthy.

00:23:23.000 The majority of our base.

00:23:25.000 Everybody hates, Charlie, everybody hates McConnell, McCarthy, McDaniel.

00:23:29.000 No, and I'm just, you got to listen to your audience, right?

00:23:31.000 So I'm not going to fight the audience, obviously.

00:23:33.000 I am going to contribute to the conversation.

00:23:35.000 I would rather have Jim Jordan as chairman of the oversight committee than Adam Schiff.

00:23:39.000 I agree with that, but I do think that this is the part of the, again, the expectation, and I'll say it this way: the reason why we have leadership in Congress, leaders, is to figure this stuff out.

00:23:52.000 This is their job.

00:23:52.000 And to listen to voters, hopefully, but they don't.

00:23:54.000 Well, I understand.

00:23:55.000 But like, you listen to voters in your role as congressman.

00:23:59.000 You become leader of a majority or a minority in order to manage herd cats, to manage all those people who get elected.

00:24:07.000 So hopefully the voice of the grassroots comes up through the individuals who write legislation.

00:24:13.000 And it's the job of the leadership to make sure the legislation gets across the finish line.

00:24:17.000 The very basic job that they have is to make sure that leadership gets elected.

00:24:23.000 If you can't even do that as leader, this is a real question that the audience is asking, essentially.

00:24:30.000 And they're maybe not asking it this way, but if you can't even get the votes to become leader, right?

00:24:35.000 Comments true.

00:24:36.000 The speaker of the house.

00:24:37.000 That's right.

00:24:38.000 How am I going to trust that you're going to be the guy that's going to be able to get massive pieces of legislation across the finish line and negotiate broker deals with the Biden administration?

00:24:46.000 You're just not going to do it, right?

00:24:48.000 So I don't blame people for having second thoughts and questions about McCarthy because of this.

00:24:57.000 What I do know is this, is that it's their job to figure this out, and they're not getting that job done.

00:25:02.000 So why would we ask them to do more?

00:25:04.000 So the way the speaker's race is unfolding, I think they're still voting right now, if I'm not mistaken.

00:25:09.000 And Hakeem Jeffries is at 209.

00:25:11.000 Isn't it interesting how the Democrats all vote for the same person?

00:25:14.000 Not one of them defect.

00:25:17.000 And Kevin McCarthy at 195.

00:25:19.000 And by the way, that's one of the reasons why we're conservative because we don't always go along with the mob and we think independently.

00:25:24.000 Well, who were the other votes that we think?

00:25:26.000 Well, others, Jim Jordan, Banks.

00:25:30.000 So we think some of those were Jim.

00:25:31.000 Yeah, so Andy Biggs got 10.

00:25:32.000 So there's 19 non-Kevin votes, which is way more than they expected.

00:25:37.000 Yeah, they expected four or five.

00:25:39.000 They expected less than 10.

00:25:41.000 Yes, four or five.

00:25:43.000 And so this is a real problem.

00:25:45.000 We now have a real problem on our hands because this isn't about Kevin McCarthy going and getting the couple of votes that he needs.

00:25:52.000 Now we have a real problem on our hands.

00:25:54.000 So someone says, well, Charlie, what do we have to lose?

00:25:57.000 A fair amount.

00:25:59.000 I would say that there is a lot to lose.

00:26:01.000 You lose all oversight, capacity, ability, basically effectively saying to the voters that showed up in big numbers to win back the House of Representatives, you don't get the House.

00:26:12.000 I mean, this could go on for days.

00:26:14.000 It could go on for weeks.

00:26:15.000 It could go on for months.

00:26:17.000 That's where we're at.

00:26:19.000 So to your point, so the question is: what are the alternatives to McCarthy?

00:26:25.000 That's the question, right?

00:26:26.000 Yeah.

00:26:26.000 And so Scalise, who's worse?

00:26:28.000 Who's worse?

00:26:29.000 Scalise's buddies with Liz Cheney and defended Liz Cheney in the Wyoming primary, and McCarthy was behind Harriet.

00:26:34.000 Yeah.

00:26:35.000 So that's option one.

00:26:36.000 Scalise is going to make a run for it after this.

00:26:38.000 Well, McCarthy didn't really have a choice because they were 11.

00:26:42.000 Well, correct.

00:26:44.000 But there was a huge fallout between McCarthy and Cheney publicly, like public disputes, and like, I'm no longer with, like, but part of that was because of the R, and this is like in the weeds here.

00:26:54.000 In the RNC, there's what they call Rule 11, and it's part of the rules, which are the bylaws of the RNC, which says that the RNC members, the three people from that state.

00:27:03.000 The three people of that state can basically identify that no support shall be given to anyone else other than whoever they name to be the nominee, essentially.

00:27:13.000 And so they did this with Harriet Hagman.

00:27:14.000 But Scalise did have a choice.

00:27:16.000 Yeah.

00:27:16.000 And Scalise chose to not back Harriet.

00:27:19.000 Yes.

00:27:20.000 So that just shows you what you're dealing with with Steve Carter.

00:27:21.000 Yeah, so he's worse.

00:27:22.000 Yeah.

00:27:23.000 And obviously, we have a lot of respect for his personal struggle and all that, but that's not relevant to this conversation.

00:27:28.000 He's not more conservative than Kevin McCarthy.

00:27:30.000 So they say, what about Jim Jordan?

00:27:31.000 Well, right now, Kevin McCarthy has 60 loyal people that say they're not going to vote for anybody but Kevin McCarthy.

00:27:37.000 And they certainly will not vote for Jim Jordan.

00:27:39.000 No.

00:27:39.000 So, not Jim Jordan.

00:27:41.000 Well, they say, what about Tom Emmer?

00:27:42.000 Tom Emmer is worse than Kevin McCarthy.

00:27:44.000 By a lot.

00:27:44.000 Like a lot.

00:27:45.000 He's like beyond worse. 0.95

00:27:46.000 He voted for gay marriage, all this stuff. 0.88

00:27:49.000 So, okay, you want Tom Emmer?

00:27:51.000 You'll have a lot worse legislation.

00:27:53.000 Okay.

00:27:53.000 Well, what about Lee Zeldin?

00:27:54.000 Those 60 people that are voting for Kevin are not going to move.

00:27:59.000 So they say, what about Matt Gates?

00:28:01.000 Yeah, he'll get like four votes.

00:28:02.000 Yeah.

00:28:03.000 What about Andy Biggs?

00:28:04.000 Andy Biggs just got 10 votes.

00:28:05.000 Not going to happen.

00:28:06.000 Not going to happen.

00:28:07.000 So we're open for suggestions.

00:28:11.000 There's always the make Trump speaker play.

00:28:14.000 I don't think that's going to happen.

00:28:14.000 I mean, I don't think that.

00:28:16.000 I don't think 30 or 40 Republicans will go for that either.

00:28:19.000 Oh, no.

00:28:20.000 More than that.

00:28:20.000 Yeah.

00:28:21.000 Probably like 60, 70.

00:28:23.000 Someone says, what about Trey Gowdy?

00:28:24.000 He's worse than Kevin.

00:28:26.000 Like, this is what's so funny.

00:28:27.000 Someone says, well, what about this?

00:28:28.000 One person says, why don't we bring back Paul Ryan?

00:28:34.000 I'm like, what?

00:28:34.000 What?

00:28:35.000 This is the irrational.

00:28:36.000 Sometimes you have to understand that you can really hate somebody, but then I think we should bring in Ron Paul.

00:28:45.000 All right.

00:28:46.000 Yeah, he'll get three votes.

00:28:48.000 He'll get two.

00:28:49.000 Yeah.

00:28:49.000 He'll get Thomas Nasse.

00:28:51.000 And no, I mean, Charlie, this is a conversation we were having off the air here.

00:28:58.000 But I mean, this does not bode well for the next two years.

00:29:00.000 And this is what we're saying.

00:29:01.000 Oh, we're going to lose it.

00:29:02.000 This is an RNC race in this.

00:29:05.000 There is a, we have a strong fracturing now that happens that even Trump can't unite, right?

00:29:11.000 Trump's trying.

00:29:12.000 Trump's trying to do everything he can to try to unite people.

00:29:15.000 And people were united under Trump, right?

00:29:18.000 But then we had a lot of states have a lot of funny business happen in them in 2020.

00:29:23.000 And so now we're in this position where we haven't fixed elections.

00:29:26.000 That has to be number one.

00:29:28.000 And we have a 2024 election coming up, and none of us are on the same page.

00:29:31.000 Oh, we're in a terrible spot.

00:29:32.000 Yeah, Democrats are on poise to win everything in 24 and take over the whole country.

00:29:37.000 We have the RNC race on 127, but in some ways, the speaker's race, does it foreshadow the chaos and the tumult of what's going to happen in the RNC race as well?

00:29:47.000 If I'm watching this right now, I'm Rana.

00:29:49.000 I am very concerned because this was not how this was supposed to go.

00:29:54.000 How this was supposed to go was that McCarthy would easily glide to speaker.

00:29:58.000 There's a reason why we're holding the RNC meeting in Southern California.

00:30:02.000 In Dana Point, California.

00:30:03.000 In Dana Point, California.

00:30:04.000 What is the reason?

00:30:06.000 Well, Kevin McCarthy.

00:30:08.000 Well, if it was in Bakersfield, yeah, that would make more sense.

00:30:10.000 No, but we're in California because of Kevin McCarthy.

00:30:13.000 Right.

00:30:13.000 So that's without question.

00:30:17.000 And again, you know, wherever you fall on the Kevin McCarthy thing, I think this, I think it would have been a smart move to spend time listening to the grassroots, responding to the grassroots all last month and saying, you know what?

00:30:31.000 You know, maybe we need to shake things up at the RNC a little bit.

00:30:34.000 Maybe things need to change around.

00:30:36.000 And here's how you know that things are, there's not like a setup here with Harmeet.

00:30:42.000 Harmeet is from California.

00:30:44.000 And Kevin McCarthy supports Rana, who's not from California, right?

00:30:48.000 So I trust Harmeet Dillon even more now because of this whole situation.

00:30:53.000 If I'm the grassroots, I trust Harmeet more now because she is clearly not on like McCarthy payroll, right?

00:31:02.000 And that's the whole thing here.

00:31:04.000 So look, regardless of what happens with what happens in this congressional vote here for Speaker, we now have an even more important vote now on 127.

00:31:15.000 And that's crazy.

00:31:16.000 All right.

00:31:16.000 I want to play a piece of tape here.

00:31:18.000 This is Dan Crenshaw.

00:31:19.000 Let me be very clear.

00:31:19.000 Crenshaw is helping nobody by doing this.

00:31:21.000 This makes me incensed.

00:31:23.000 This attitude.

00:31:23.000 Only himself.

00:31:25.000 This does not help the cause of trying to destroy a Liz Cheney speaker at all.

00:31:30.000 Dan Crenshaw basically saying we have an all-out civil war going on.

00:31:34.000 This is Kinzinger stuff.

00:31:36.000 Not helpful.

00:31:36.000 Play Cut 22.

00:31:39.000 This handful of members is very clearly looking for notoriety over principal.

00:31:45.000 They lost those debates.

00:31:46.000 That should have been the end of it because that's how a team works, right?

00:31:49.000 You hash this stuff out, figure it out, and then you move on.

00:31:53.000 But if you're a narcissist, if you're a narcissist and you believe that your opinion is so much more important than everyone else's, then you'll keep going.

00:32:01.000 And you'll threaten to tear down the team for the benefit of the Democrats just because of your own sense of self-importance.

00:32:10.000 That's exactly what's happening here.

00:32:12.000 They are enemies now.

00:32:14.000 They have made it clear that they prefer a Democrat agenda and a Republican one.

00:32:19.000 All right.

00:32:19.000 I mean, Dan, if you're trying to make me sympathetic with everything that is happening, you've done a great job.

00:32:24.000 I mean, calling Bobert and Gates bigs and good enemies, stop it.

00:32:31.000 That is the wrong tone.

00:32:34.000 This is what happened to Trump in 2016, right?

00:32:36.000 So what happened is everybody called Trump the enemy.

00:32:39.000 He was in like 16th place in Iowa.

00:32:42.000 And then guess what happened?

00:32:44.000 He's right.

00:32:45.000 He did get notoriety.

00:32:47.000 And he became the most popular person within the conservative movement.

00:32:50.000 So they are falling for the trap.

00:32:52.000 I mean, it's easy with Dan Crenshaw and those guys, right?

00:32:54.000 The Adam Kinzingers, the Jeff Flakes.

00:32:58.000 They fall for the trap that's laid.

00:33:00.000 The trap that's laid here is like, yeah, that is actually what's going to happen.

00:33:03.000 There's going to be a lot of good notoriety that's placed on these people who are standing up for something.

00:33:08.000 That's what people want.

00:33:09.000 That's what people wanted in Trump.

00:33:11.000 And now the question is, is that going to propel them to the success?

00:33:17.000 Well, it's not going to the same way that it did for president, for Trump, because you had public votes.

00:33:23.000 That's not how this works for Speaker.

00:33:25.000 And that's not how it works for the RNC.

00:33:27.000 Yeah, so the way it works now is this is in suspense.

00:33:29.000 There are deals trying to be cut to get a more uniparty moderate Republican.

00:33:33.000 Democrats are willing to basically vote for a moderate Republican, which would even out the House of Representatives.

00:33:38.000 The Freedom Caucus is now, they're probably screaming at each other right now, McCarthy and the Freedom Caucus.

00:33:44.000 And they're in conference.

00:33:46.000 And right now, there is no Speaker of the House.

00:33:48.000 There is no House of Representatives as of right now.

00:33:50.000 I think all McCarthy had to do was agree to all the concessions that the Freedom Caucus wanted.

00:33:55.000 So hopefully that's happening right now.

00:33:58.000 I hope so.

00:33:58.000 Tyler, we'll talk more about 127.

00:34:00.000 You guys can go to hireharmeet.com, H-I-R-E, like you're hiring somebody, harmeet.com, and contact your state chairman or committeeman or committeewoman demanding change at the RNC.

00:34:14.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:34:15.000 Email me your thoughts.

00:34:15.000 It's always freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:34:18.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

00:34:22.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 04, 2023

The House Speaker Apocalypse with Abe Hamadeh and Tyler Bowyer

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