The Charlie Kirk Show - The Impossibility of Peace with Hamas with Yoram Hazony

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, it's on the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Yoram Hazzoni joins us.

00:00:03.000 We talk all things Israel, mass migration, the West, Jewish donors no longer giving to Harvard.

00:00:08.000 Really amazing conversation as Joram has two sons fighting on the front lines in Gaza.

00:00:13.000 You're not going to want to miss this conversation.

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00:01:03.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:37.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at AndrewandTodd.com.

00:01:45.000 Joining us is a very special guest, Yoram Hazzoni.

00:01:47.000 Yoram, welcome back.

00:01:48.000 Hello, Charlie.

00:01:49.000 Good to see you.

00:01:50.000 You too.

00:01:50.000 We text frequently, and this is a tough time for you right now.

00:01:55.000 And I want to just plug your book, Conservatism Rediscovery.

00:01:59.000 It's a tough time because your nation is at war, and your sons and your nephews are currently in Gaza.

00:02:06.000 Yep, that's right.

00:02:07.000 Well, along with an awful lot of other people's sons and nephews.

00:02:12.000 You know, it's a citizen army.

00:02:13.000 Everybody's got kids in the war.

00:02:15.000 Walk us through, from what you can tell us, just how quickly you go from being at Shabbat, Yom Kippur, to war.

00:02:25.000 But as far as what happened this last on October 7th, just what I haven't heard anybody, you know, from a first-person perspective, just what was that day like?

00:02:34.000 Tell us about, because it was a 9-11 type psychological shift where you wake up with the intent to celebrate and you go to bed and your whole nation's at war.

00:02:43.000 Yeah, well, it was Simchat Torah, which is the last of the high holidays, you know, that begin with Rosh Hashanah.

00:02:50.000 So, and it was the Sabbath.

00:02:53.000 And we got up.

00:02:57.000 We go to synagogue at, let's say, eight o'clock in the morning.

00:03:00.000 At seven o'clock, we got up and you hear the missile fall.

00:03:06.000 Missile fall.

00:03:07.000 You hear it.

00:03:07.000 Thud, You can hear it in the distance.

00:03:12.000 Are you in Jerusalem or are you?

00:03:13.000 We're in Jerusalem.

00:03:15.000 And later, when missiles started being directed to Jerusalem, we got sirens.

00:03:21.000 You get this wailing siren that sends people into the bomb shelters.

00:03:26.000 But an hour before we heard the wailing sirens, we were already hearing missiles falling down in the coast.

00:03:34.000 The whole country is about 50 miles wide.

00:03:37.000 So you can, depending on how the wind conditions are, you can.

00:03:42.000 And Judea and Samaria are elevate higher elevation than Tel Aviv, right?

00:03:47.000 Right.

00:03:47.000 Jerusalem is up in the hills above Tel Aviv, along with the rest of Judea and Samaria.

00:03:53.000 So we went to synagogue, we had sirens.

00:03:56.000 Which you weren't phased by because you're used to that?

00:03:59.000 Or was that a little bit unusual?

00:04:01.000 No, it's unusual, but it's not, you know, it's happened before.

00:04:07.000 Sure.

00:04:09.000 So there were sirens.

00:04:11.000 We went to the bomb shelter during services just for 15 minutes, then came back out, continued services.

00:04:18.000 By the second siren, we decided to just send everybody home so that we don't have all these people congregating in one spot.

00:04:27.000 So everybody went home.

00:04:29.000 And by lunchtime, we probably had eight or ten sirens that had gone off.

00:04:37.000 And I'll tell you the thing that was stunning was that by this point, you know you're at war because the country's being inundated with missile fire, but there was no Air Force.

00:04:53.000 And I said at lunch, has anybody heard an airplane all day?

00:04:58.000 And nobody had heard an airplane.

00:05:00.000 And my wife said, well, maybe they take off from Khatsirim from the Air Force bases in the South and they go towards Gaza.

00:05:09.000 And I said, the country's too small.

00:05:10.000 If there was Air Force, we would be hearing it.

00:05:13.000 There's no Air Force.

00:05:15.000 So there we were at war with no Air Force.

00:05:18.000 Why?

00:05:19.000 Well, we still don't really know why.

00:05:23.000 But that's a fact.

00:05:25.000 I mean, if I knew this in Jerusalem, everybody else knew it.

00:05:29.000 But, you know, excuse my ignorance here, but doesn't it just require a phone call to get a plane in the air?

00:05:36.000 Even on Shabbat, they have people ready to go.

00:05:38.000 I don't know what was going on.

00:05:40.000 I can't look.

00:05:43.000 A lot of people have asked me about how could it be that there was eight-hour delay before the Israeli.

00:05:49.000 Well, yeah, that was going to be my, what, 20 hours in certain areas, too.

00:05:52.000 Right. 0.99

00:05:53.000 Well, I'll tell you, since I've served in the Israeli Army, and I was a reservist for 18 years, and people should never underestimate the capacity of a bureaucratic military organization to be stupid. 0.99

00:06:12.000 And, you know, that sounds glib. 0.93

00:06:14.000 No, it's the, I really want that explanation to be right.

00:06:18.000 Well, we'll find out.

00:06:19.000 Look, after the war, we're going to find out everything.

00:06:23.000 But, you know, at this point, we already have three major intelligence figures who have publicly said, yes, I was on the call the night before.

00:06:34.000 And, you know, we got the reports that something was happening, and we thought it was, we just thought it was nothing.

00:06:40.000 We went back to sleep. 0.99

00:06:41.000 So, you know, the public statements by people who describe their own stupidity are, you know, they've already gotten rolling. 0.99

00:06:51.000 We'll find out more later. 0.99

00:06:53.000 Yeah, that's so interesting about the Air Force.

00:06:55.000 I hadn't heard that before.

00:06:56.000 Not an airplane in the sky.

00:06:58.000 Yeah, well, I mean, the normal thing is, if missiles are being shot at you, you scramble the jets and you bomb the places where the missiles are being launched.

00:07:09.000 That's just normal.

00:07:12.000 What is the, and so now here you're in the country, you're in our country, America, and I know that you have a passion for both Israel and America, as do I. What is the attitude on the ground in Israel right now?

00:07:23.000 I mean, is it obvious you're a nation at war, but it seems as if there's this tension between winning the war and holding accountable and remembering the lost and they're still hostages?

00:07:37.000 Yeah, look, there's definitely some degree of tension because there's still 130 people unaccounted for.

00:07:51.000 Probably most of them are hostages, although we don't really know.

00:07:54.000 They may have been killed after they were taken into Gaza.

00:07:58.000 Lot of people have been killed there who we thought were hostages.

00:08:03.000 So for sure, that's on everybody's mind.

00:08:06.000 But politically, the country is more united than anything I've ever seen in my lifetime.

00:08:13.000 There isn't really a left or right at this moment.

00:08:16.000 I mean the.

00:08:18.000 The country is being the war is being run by a unity government which is, you know, the Netanyahu and and members of the opposition together, and they're clear on the war aims, the aims.

00:08:32.000 One aim is to free the hostages, but the other, prior you know, the number one aim is to eliminate Hamas, eliminate the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been the, the government of Gaza for the last 16 years.

00:08:46.000 And when they say eliminate, I mean they they, they mean to hold every member of that organization responsible for the, for the crimes they committed.

00:08:56.000 And the third aim of the war is is to make sure that Gaza is never capable of being a military threat to Israel again. 0.71

00:09:06.000 So those things are achievable.

00:09:10.000 We have an extraordinary wall-to-wall unity like we've never seen before.

00:09:16.000 I think the major question on everybody's mind is, you know, is how much pressure are the Americans going to put on us to stop before we attain those aims?

00:09:28.000 Does the average Israeli believe that America has Israel's back right now, yes and no, and because the situation just is complicated people, people are incredibly loyal to, to President Biden and his administration incredibly grateful for the supply of munitions.

00:09:50.000 I mean basically they're, you know there's, there's an aircraft leaving the United States every day with ammunition that Israel needs.

00:09:59.000 Everybody's sincerely grateful for that.

00:10:02.000 On the other hand, it's a you know it's not, it's it's not a simple relationship.

00:10:06.000 Every, every morning, they send out, you know the, the munitions that we need, and every afternoon, somebody comes out of the.

00:10:12.000 You know, the White House or the State Department starts, you know, talking about how there's going to be a, a Palestinian state in Gaza, and it's going to be.

00:10:25.000 Kamala Harris said it was going to be transparent and accountable and like all of this stuff that you know we we heard this before the about Iraq, we heard it about Afghanistan, about Egypt, about Libya.

00:10:38.000 This kind of the, these like kind of you'll forgive me these kind of Washington fantasies.

00:10:43.000 That's what they are.

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00:11:46.000 So this is Kamala Harris, saying we must revitalize the Palestinian Authority.

00:11:50.000 I want to play this and get your reaction.

00:11:51.000 You are okay revitalize.

00:11:53.000 Play cut 27.

00:11:55.000 Well, as I said, we have to revitalize the Palestinian Authority, which means giving the support that is necessary for good governance.

00:12:05.000 It's also about what we need to do to recognize there must be some plan for security for the region.

00:12:12.000 And I suspect as a plan develops, it will take into account interim and then longer term.

00:12:20.000 What is she saying here?

00:12:21.000 Well, she's saying, I mean, the terrorist organizations that control Gaza and the West Bank, there's the Hamas, that's the Muslim Brotherhood that we're familiar with.

00:12:33.000 A lot of people remember the PLO, right?

00:12:35.000 The PLO was Yasser Arafats, you know, supposedly secular, but a fanatical terrorist organization which was brought in in the 1990s and given control of cities in the West Bank.

00:12:48.000 Now, that's headed by a fellow named Abbas.

00:12:52.000 Mahmoud Abbas.

00:12:53.000 Mahmoud Abbas.

00:12:54.000 And he has not yet condemned the massacres.

00:12:58.000 I mean, I think everybody understands this.

00:13:00.000 He hasn't yet condemned the massacres.

00:13:02.000 On the contrary, one of two things is true.

00:13:05.000 Either he actually sent contingents to participate in the massacres with the Hamas, or he's pretending they did. 0.63

00:13:13.000 I mean, I don't know what the fact is.

00:13:15.000 Just so everyone understands the geography, he's in Nablus.

00:13:18.000 Is that how you say it right?

00:13:19.000 He's in Ramallah.

00:13:20.000 He's in Ramallah, right outside of Jerusalem.

00:13:23.000 So he's, you know, like 60 miles away from Gaza.

00:13:27.000 But there is some disconnect, but he's obviously chatting.

00:13:29.000 He knew this was coming.

00:13:30.000 Well, like I say, his people are claiming that they participated in the massacre.

00:13:39.000 So I don't know if that's true for a fact or if they're just pretending that...

00:13:42.000 He's doing that for credit for his people or something?

00:13:45.000 He knows that the majority of people support the massacres, and he knows that that's dangerous for him.

00:13:52.000 He doesn't want the Hamas to take over Ramallah.

00:13:56.000 So he's saying we participated.

00:13:59.000 But look, this guy is not a partner for peace.

00:14:03.000 And there's nothing to revitalize there with all due respect to Vice President Harris. 0.95

00:14:08.000 Yeah, it's just also, the argument is so silly.

00:14:10.000 So Israel got out of Gaza and we got further away from peace with the Palestinian Authority.

00:14:17.000 They elect Hamas. 0.91

00:14:18.000 They incentivize terror attacks.

00:14:20.000 They get hundreds of millions of dollars and they build terror tunnels.

00:14:23.000 They don't want peace.

00:14:24.000 Look, we had an independent Palestinian state in Gaza for 16 years.

00:14:30.000 And we know how it ends.

00:14:32.000 We're not doing that again.

00:14:33.000 I mean, you've got 8%, according to this weekend's polls, 8% of Israelis supporting Harris's, the Biden-Harris proposal that the Palestinian Authority, that the Palestinians should be brought to Gaza and given Gaza.

00:14:50.000 That's not going to get you anywhere.

00:14:52.000 I want to play Cut 26.

00:14:53.000 I find this whole media narrative so flawed and troubling.

00:14:59.000 Play cut 26.

00:15:01.000 In the first day after this temporary truce had ended, Israel killed 200 Palestinians, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.

00:15:12.000 Is that minimizing harm to civilian life?

00:15:15.000 Is that acceptable?

00:15:17.000 I don't have the details to tell you exactly who was killed, but I will say this.

00:15:24.000 We have been very clear about where we stand on this, which is innocent civilian lives should not be intentionally targeted and that Israel must do more to protect innocent life in Gaza and innocent civilians in Gaza.

00:15:44.000 In World War II, did they do the...

00:15:44.000 Wait a second.

00:15:46.000 You know how many Nazis are dying?

00:15:48.000 Did they do that every day, Yoram, in World War II?

00:15:50.000 This whole media narrative is unbelievable to me.

00:15:54.000 Look, it's a war.

00:15:56.000 The extremely unfortunate truth is that in war people die.

00:16:01.000 And there is no, I mean, she's mistaken, there is no Israeli intentional targeting of civilians.

00:16:06.000 But it is true that if you're in a building and under that building is a tunnel complex and that tunnel complex has to be bombed and you have refused to evacuate your house for a month where you were being told, get out of the war zone, and you didn't evacuate, then I'm sorry, it's certainly unfortunate.

00:16:28.000 Every life that's lost is a whole world, but you have to fight the war.

00:16:34.000 Fighting the war means killing your enemies.

00:16:35.000 These enemies are in the tunnels under those houses. 0.99

00:16:38.000 Yes.

00:16:39.000 Yeah, and the IDF drops flyers and calls residents on phone to leave before they do a military operation.

00:16:47.000 But also, you know, they want a ceasefire.

00:16:48.000 They had a ceasefire on October 6th, and they decided to end the ceasefire.

00:16:53.000 There is no ceasefire with them.

00:16:55.000 The ceasefire just means that they stop firing until they're ready to start firing again.

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00:18:01.000 Yoram Hazzoni, check out his book, Conservatism a Rediscovery.

00:18:04.000 We were talking about Yoram, kind of the path forward.

00:18:09.000 There's no good solution here.

00:18:11.000 There's no good solution, but things have got to change, and they will change.

00:18:16.000 We're not going back to the status quo before.

00:18:19.000 I mean, there's we did the Palestinian state in Gaza thing, and whatever there's going to be is not going to be that.

00:18:30.000 So I think most Israelis don't want an Israeli occupation of Gaza indefinitely, but Israelis would prefer that to having United Nations peacekeepers or something.

00:18:45.000 And we were talking during the break.

00:18:49.000 I do think that as with other refugee problems in the world, it is definitely worth thinking about resettlement.

00:19:00.000 But I should just emphasize that I don't think Western nations should be increasing their radical Islamic population. 1.00

00:19:09.000 Gaza is largely a radical Islamic population.

00:19:13.000 The United States and Europe should, I think Trump was right, should have and should now stop allowing this kind of immigration. 1.00

00:19:25.000 Yeah, and so the question is, I mean, why not send them to Saudi Arabia or Jordan or Egypt or all the fellow Muslim brethren? 1.00

00:19:34.000 Well, those particular governments that you named are, I mean, they're all enemies of the Muslim Brotherhood.

00:19:41.000 Hamas in Gaza, the Hamas. 0.86

00:19:43.000 They're from to Iran.

00:19:46.000 That's much more attractive.

00:19:48.000 No, but seriously, I mean, the Egyptians and the Jordanians and the Saudis, they look at these people, you know, from Gaza in particular, the Muslim Brotherhood ideology, and they say, you know, they'll try to overthrow our government.

00:20:03.000 It's not an unreasonable fear.

00:20:05.000 But I do think you're right that ultimately the refugee problem has to be dealt with in the Arab-speaking world.

00:20:13.000 And so what do you think that looks like?

00:20:15.000 I mean, you know, a resurgence of statehood for Gaza.

00:20:20.000 And I'll be honest, Yoram, I just, the West is going to end up taking a bunch of these. 0.94

00:20:25.000 It's just, I see the writing on the wall.

00:20:27.000 I hope I'm wrong.

00:20:28.000 Okay, well, look, I don't know if you remember this.

00:20:32.000 You and I signed the National Conservative Statement of Principles a few years ago.

00:20:37.000 And I know you're against that.

00:20:38.000 I'm just telling you what I think is going to happen.

00:20:40.000 And that statement put the option of immigration moratorium on the table for the first time.

00:20:48.000 And I think we have to take it seriously now.

00:20:51.000 I think everybody in the West should look October 7th, look those massacres straight in the eye, because this is not special for Israel.

00:21:00.000 The kinds of people who did that, they would do it to Jews.

00:21:04.000 They would do it to Christians. 1.00

00:21:05.000 I agree.

00:21:06.000 So come on, we've got to change the software.

00:21:10.000 We've got to.

00:21:11.000 Yes.

00:21:12.000 And so let's talk about what you've been seeing here domestically.

00:21:16.000 We see it on campuses, at Harvard.

00:21:19.000 This is a byproduct of unregulated mass migration coming into the Western world.

00:21:25.000 One in seven people are foreign-born now in America.

00:21:29.000 It's certainly unregulated mass migration is part of the problem, but I'm not convinced that the regulated migration was sufficiently focused on these kinds of problems either.

00:21:39.000 I agree.

00:21:40.000 I mean, this was this issue that Trump brought up, and people didn't want to hear about it.

00:21:46.000 And I think Americans are going to have to have to dial back their liberalism some.

00:21:53.000 It's just not true that every ideology is equal to every other ideology.

00:21:58.000 Every religion is equal to every other religion.

00:22:01.000 Now, I'm not saying that every single Muslim is a problem.

00:22:06.000 That's certainly not true.

00:22:08.000 But our polling right now is showing 50% of American Muslims support the massacres of October 7th and 8th.

00:22:18.000 Look, that is, even if most of those people are just blowing off steam, how many of them do you need before you actually have a serious jihadist problem in the United States?

00:22:29.000 Yes, yes.

00:22:31.000 And then the head of Hamas now says that October 7th is just a start.

00:22:38.000 Yeah, of course.

00:22:40.000 I mean, it's kind of him to make that clear to us, just in case we were thinking that this was a one-off.

00:22:47.000 But they want the world and destroying Israel is just one step along the way. 0.91

00:22:53.000 And if Israel fights back and defeats them, and they feel like they should pop up somewhere else, they will. 0.95

00:23:00.000 They'll pop up somewhere else.

00:23:01.000 Help me understand, and our audience understand why some, not all, but some of the vocal anti-Israel voices happen to be Jews.

00:23:11.000 Where did that ⁇ that's something that's hard for people to understand and explain.

00:23:15.000 For example, they're more secular Jews.

00:23:17.000 They're not very religious.

00:23:18.000 But the flooding of the Grand Central Station.

00:23:21.000 I don't know if you saw that.

00:23:23.000 Where does that come from?

00:23:24.000 Well, there is a ⁇ I wrote a book once called The Jewish State, The Struggle for Israel's Soul.

00:23:33.000 Maybe some of your readers would be interested, listeners would be interested in it.

00:23:37.000 That book is about the Jewish struggle against the establishment of the State of Israel.

00:23:43.000 And there is this long history of liberal Jews opposing establishing the state of Israel.

00:23:50.000 So when Theodore Herzl was organizing the Zionist congresses at the end of the 19th century and saying, hey, we Jews, we want to return to Israel.

00:23:57.000 We want a state, his biggest opponents, his most bitter opponents, were liberal Jews who said, no, we don't want there to be a state of Israel because the idea of a Jewish state would raise the question of dual loyalty in the countries in which we live.

00:24:14.000 We don't want to go to Israel.

00:24:16.000 So this issue of nationalist, conservative, and religious Jews mostly mobilizing with the idea of returning to Israel, while some liberal Jews have always opposed it.

00:24:35.000 That's an old, old issue.

00:24:36.000 Now, most of that disappeared after World War II.

00:24:41.000 I would say that other than the absolute most radical lunatic left, all Jews in the United States and all Jews in the world after the Holocaust ended up rallying behind the idea of a Jewish state. 0.83

00:24:54.000 But if we look at, we've got Jewish intellectuals like Peter Beinhard, if you know him, and his position is that it's a traditional anti-Zionist position.

00:25:07.000 He thinks all states should be neutral and there should be no such thing as a Jewish state.

00:25:13.000 And unfortunately, these are like Dr. Norman Finkelstein, that guy, right?

00:25:19.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:25:20.000 He's a student of Chomsky, and Chomsky himself was a famous anti-Zionist crusader.

00:25:29.000 But think about it like this.

00:25:31.000 You know that there are on the American left, like on the extreme American left, there are people who hate America, right?

00:25:37.000 So the same thing is true of the Jewish left.

00:25:40.000 On the extreme Jewish left, there are people who hate Israel.

00:25:45.000 It's not large numbers of people.

00:25:48.000 They're loud.

00:25:49.000 Well, because they're useful.

00:25:51.000 They're loud because people, the left wants to amplify those voices because it makes it look like we don't have overwhelming support for Israel from among Jews.

00:26:04.000 At the moment, we have absolutely overwhelming support for Israel among Jews.

00:26:09.000 And I actually think that since October 7th, there's the beginning of a shift among liberal Jews. 0.66

00:26:17.000 Yeah, talk about that.

00:26:18.000 In America, American liberal Jews. 0.92

00:26:20.000 What are you seeing?

00:26:21.000 Well, look, you know that Jews in America have been mostly liberal for a century.

00:26:27.000 85%.

00:26:28.000 There's 15%, maybe 20%, who are conservative, nationalist, the kind of people who would come to your conferences or my conferences.

00:26:44.000 And then the majority are liberals.

00:26:46.000 And I don't want to say that they're not loyal Jews, but their worldview is primarily liberal.

00:26:57.000 It's more liberal than it is Jewish. 1.00

00:27:00.000 And that means they've supported every crazy liberal thing that's happened in the United States.

00:27:08.000 People have been asking me for decades, can that ever change?

00:27:12.000 And I don't know the answer, but I do know that right now, an awful lot of these liberal Jews are reconsidering. 0.77

00:27:21.000 They are.

00:27:21.000 They're reconsidering.

00:27:22.000 And you know what?

00:27:23.000 I'll tell you exactly what they should reconsider.

00:27:25.000 Here's my advice.

00:27:26.000 I think, number one, liberal Jews have to change their position on immigration. 0.93

00:27:33.000 And we just saw, I don't know if you saw this, that Ackman wrote a Famous Jewish liberal hedge fund, but he's more moderate in some ways.

00:27:33.000 Yes.

00:27:46.000 He's not Soros.

00:27:48.000 No, definitely no.

00:27:50.000 No, no, Soros is like, you know, it's like revolutionary left.

00:27:52.000 No, no, that's not actually.

00:27:53.000 No, but I'm talking about, I'm talking about the majority of liberal Jews.

00:27:58.000 He has a very mainstream political.

00:28:00.000 So that's the question: is that majority of liberal Jews?

00:28:04.000 Is there any chance they'll be less liberal?

00:28:07.000 And I think that the letter that you just saw sent to Harvard, there were a couple of points there that were, you know, pretty amazing.

00:28:14.000 I mean, one thing he said was, one thing that he said was that he feels guilty that it's taken him up until this tremendous explosion of anti-Semitism on the left to begin speaking out about things that have been going on for many, many years.

00:28:32.000 So look, that's an honest regret saying repentance is a beautiful thing.

00:28:41.000 I've made a mistake.

00:28:42.000 So look, on the immigration thing, I think we need to look for repentance. 1.00

00:28:46.000 But I think, can I just interrupt really?

00:28:48.000 Yeah, yeah, please.

00:28:48.000 It's just that there's this tension, though, in secular Jewish culture that you must be compassionate to all people.

00:28:55.000 It's like tolerance is almost a central, tolerance is taken more seriously than the Torah in secular Jewish households.

00:29:03.000 You know, I really would like to say that it's just liberalism.

00:29:08.000 No, you can say that.

00:29:09.000 If I say that, they call me an anti-Semite.

00:29:11.000 Okay, so it's just liber.

00:29:12.000 Look, I don't know.

00:29:14.000 I've known plenty of liberal Catholics.

00:29:18.000 Pretty of liberal Protestants.

00:29:19.000 And I just have to tell you, to me, they're all the same.

00:29:22.000 Like, it's like the liberal Jews and the liberal Christians, liberalism is their God and their religion. 0.99

00:29:29.000 And it leads them to all sorts of foolish things. 0.58

00:29:33.000 And what we're going through now is horrible, but we should be pushing to get a change, to get liberals, liberal Jews and liberal others to change on two points. 0.67

00:29:47.000 The first, we said, is immigration.

00:29:49.000 The second is on the public Christian character of this country, which we've talked about before.

00:29:56.000 I think that people have to, at this point, begin to realize liberalism has created this vacuum in the public space, and that vacuum is being filled by this insane concoction of Islamic supremacism with woke neo-Marxism. 0.95

00:30:13.000 You'll notice that it's the same.

00:30:16.000 It's the red-green axis.

00:30:18.000 Yeah, it's the same people from the George Floyd riots.

00:30:20.000 This is like in 2020, we had the, you know, the six months of riots and burning and cultural revolution, and now we're doing it again.

00:30:33.000 The holidays and big family feasts are upon us.

00:30:37.000 But in D.C., it seems as if there's no bigger turkey than Senate Bill 1339.

00:30:42.000 S1339 is Bernie's latest attempt to sneak in a backdoor takeover of more of our health care.

00:30:49.000 He falsely claims it will lower prescription drug prices.

00:30:53.000 But S1339 will actually do just the opposite.

00:30:58.000 It'll handcuff pharmacy benefit managers who are currently saving millions of Americans an average of $1,040 a year.

00:31:07.000 Bernie, the trickster, the Marxist, is hoping that thousands of your fellow Americans are already going to lowermydrugprices.com to stand up against S-1339, that you'll be too busy making holiday plans or getting ready for a year-end vacation to stop him from a power grab on your health care.

00:31:25.000 I'm urging you to keep up the pressure against the passage of S1339 by going to lowermydrugprices.com.

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00:32:00.000 Go to lowermydrugprices.com.

00:32:05.000 So I want to just zero in on this.

00:32:08.000 I see this with Jewish billionaires. 0.98

00:32:08.000 I do see this. 0.98

00:32:12.000 I see this with rank-and-file liberal Jews. 0.93

00:32:14.000 There is a realignment potentially happening here.

00:32:17.000 Bill Ackman's letter, very, very powerful stuff, where there is a lot of remorse and kind of repentance.

00:32:23.000 It's an incredible article.

00:32:25.000 There's some stuff that I don't love here about diversity, but yeah.

00:32:28.000 He explicitly says that straight white males have been persecuted.

00:32:35.000 Now, when have you ever heard a prominent liberal Jew talking like that? 1.00

00:32:40.000 So that's new.

00:32:42.000 Why do you think he's now saying that?

00:32:44.000 Because I think he's really rethinking his mind.

00:32:46.000 I think you're right.

00:32:47.000 I think that the scales have fallen on the street.

00:32:49.000 Look, there's a whole bunch of people, not just Jews, but Jews, many prominent liberal Jews among them, who've been saying for years there's a problem with anti-Semitism in the United States and it's on the right, right?

00:33:05.000 There's been this slander against the nationalist camp that Trump is an anti-Semite and Hawley is an anti-Semite and Tucker Carlson and on and on.

00:33:17.000 You know this story. 0.62

00:33:18.000 And it's all nonsense.

00:33:20.000 None of these people are anti-Semites.

00:33:22.000 There are, of course, some actual small number of real anti-Semites on the right.

00:33:28.000 And that's worth worrying about.

00:33:30.000 But right now, the overwhelming, I would say two orders of magnitude larger threat of anti-Semitism is from the left.

00:33:39.000 The explosion of anti-Semitism in America is the same.

00:33:42.000 Well, they also control the institutions.

00:33:44.000 So just from a matter of, you know, where it can be implemented, right?

00:33:48.000 They control Harvard, Princeton, Yale, FBI.

00:33:51.000 And so I'm seeing a lot of, this is a bad term, but buyers' remorse.

00:33:56.000 People that have funded and financed some of these institutions for years recognize that they've been subsidizing Jew hatred. 0.71

00:34:02.000 And it's not just Harvard.

00:34:03.000 It is across the board.

00:34:05.000 And I sure hope this leads to a serious permanent divestment.

00:34:10.000 I'll be honest, one of the things that I heard is some people say, but I'll reconsider giving money once they change their ways.

00:34:17.000 Yeah, there's no change coming.

00:34:18.000 Talk about that.

00:34:19.000 Look, in 2020, there was this cultural revolution in America, right?

00:34:25.000 I don't think it's over with.

00:34:26.000 I think it's over.

00:34:27.000 No, it's not over.

00:34:28.000 But in the summer after the George Floyd riots, when the New York Times kicked out all these liberal journalists and when Princeton erased Woodward Wilson's name from the university, that was a watershed event in the political configuration within the institutions of American liberalism and internationally, by this is true in Britain and Europe also.

00:34:57.000 That change, we have to get used to it, it took us from the old liberalism, you know, which was capable, it was all about tolerance, was capable of tolerating some number of people like you and me.

00:35:10.000 Right?

00:35:10.000 So, you know, the New York Times would allow in those days 20% or 15% of the op-eds to be written by conservatives.

00:35:19.000 It was affirmative action. 0.52

00:35:20.000 Okay, it was, but that was their worldview.

00:35:23.000 Okay, so this is, so we have to understand that's gone.

00:35:23.000 No, of course.

00:35:26.000 We've moved to a different world.

00:35:28.000 The people in charge of these institutions now that have them under these institutions under their thumb, they're not liberals in the old sense.

00:35:35.000 They are neo-Marxists.

00:35:37.000 And their goal is the eradicate, is eliminate and delegitimize and expel. 0.72

00:35:44.000 Delegitimize the Christian conservatives, the nationalists, delegitimize all of us and expel us from having any kind of role in public society. 0.59

00:35:58.000 And that change, which we're now seeing moving forward another step.

00:36:03.000 Now what's happening on these campuses is that in addition, there's a move to expel the liberal Jews. 0.80

00:36:09.000 I mean, this is bizarre, but it's real.

00:36:12.000 It's what's really happening.

00:36:14.000 Yes.

00:36:14.000 Is that these campuses, having now mostly delegitimized Christian conservatives, now they're taking the next step and they're saying, okay, let's delegitimize and expel the Jews as well.

00:36:28.000 And look, I definitely think that Jews should have seen this many years ago. 1.00

00:36:34.000 I mean, some of us did.

00:36:36.000 But let's open the possibility that some very important people, like Akron and many others, that they're going to take some first steps.

00:36:49.000 And we've got to be encouraging that.

00:36:49.000 Yes.

00:36:51.000 I think that's right.

00:36:52.000 I agree completely.

00:36:53.000 There is some bitterness by some people on the right.

00:36:54.000 Oh, they built it, so they have to buy it.

00:36:56.000 No, no, no.

00:36:57.000 I don't think that's right.

00:36:58.000 I think that we should always be open for people to reconsider their ways and their giving, especially when they say, look, I've been given to Harvard.

00:37:06.000 No more.

00:37:07.000 I screwed up.

00:37:07.000 Joram, really great.

00:37:08.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:37:09.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:37:12.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:37:17.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 05, 2023

The Impossibility of Peace with Hamas with Yoram Hazony

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