The Charlie Kirk Show - The Real Jesus vs. Woke Jesus with Lucas Miles

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk show, Lucas Miles joins the program, author of Woke Jesus.

00:00:06.000 Great conversation.

00:00:07.000 We talk about the church in America, wokeism.

00:00:09.000 Where do these ideas come from?

00:00:11.000 Marxism, Christianity, paganism, monotheism.

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00:03:01.000 It's going to be a fun hour here with Pastor Lucas Miles.

00:03:05.000 Welcome.

00:03:06.000 Thank you so much.

00:03:07.000 Show your book here.

00:03:09.000 And we're going to be talking about it all hour, Woke Jesus, the false messiah destroying Christianity. 0.69

00:03:14.000 And we've had you at a Freedom Night before.

00:03:16.000 I think we've had you on the show before.

00:03:18.000 You're terrific and so much to talk about.

00:03:21.000 So we are living through pagan times.

00:03:24.000 We are living through in a post-Christian era. 0.99

00:03:27.000 But I first want to talk about your book because your book is really a precursor to that, which is in some ways they've weakened Christianity in the West by making Jesus seem like a social justice warrior, Marxist, not the savior of the world.

00:03:43.000 Yeah, it's his counter reading of scripture.

00:03:45.000 You know, a lot of times it's called a counter myth, which even that statement is deceptive because it's implying that the first reading of scripture or that scripture itself is myth to start with.

00:03:54.000 And so we have to present kind of this alternative Jesus, that he is, you know, this great social justice warrior rather than the savior of the world, that he's an immigrant, that he, you know, is sort of this barefoot hippie that loves everybody, and he's pro-socialism, he's pro-trans.

00:04:10.000 And it is a great deception.

00:04:11.000 And Jesus is being used as propaganda to push this Marxist agenda in our nation.

00:04:16.000 So how old is this, this rewriting?

00:04:19.000 I mean, whenever you have something beautiful, good, and true.

00:04:24.000 Really bad parasitic forces try to take that beautiful, good, and true thing and use it for their purposes.

00:04:30.000 How far can we claw back to show the subversion of scripture for this?

00:04:35.000 Yeah, so if you're talking about specifically from a Christ-centric New Testament framework, right?

00:04:41.000 We see early heresies in the church.

00:04:42.000 We can look at the first several hundred years of Christianity and they exist.

00:04:46.000 But really at this level that we're talking about, it's the 1700s.

00:04:50.000 It's that post-Enlightenment period where we start seeing in Germany specifically the birth of what was known as these Jesus biographies.

00:04:57.000 And that becomes later tied to the quest for the historical Jesus.

00:05:01.000 And so it is essentially now that we're in this age of enlightenment and reason and rational thought and scientific method that we recognize now that the miracles of the Bible, that these can't be true.

00:05:13.000 These have to be myths and fables.

00:05:14.000 And so there was work that theologians were doing, specifically German theologians, to start rewriting the accounts of Christ to make sense of these miracles, basically to excuse them away and to make Jesus more terrestrial.

00:05:29.000 He was this great champion of the people rather than the savior of all.

00:05:35.000 And like the activist for the underclass, basically.

00:05:39.000 100%.

00:05:40.000 100%.

00:05:40.000 And everybody took that and kind of handled it a little bit differently.

00:05:43.000 And some of these were ludicrous.

00:05:44.000 I mean, you had people that say he was part of a Senian cult and that the way he fed the 5,000 was that he had a group of monks baking bread behind a rock behind him as he's dressing the 5,000.

00:05:56.000 They're passing bread secretly to him that he's multiplying.

00:05:58.000 These ridiculous kind of ideas that were out there.

00:06:00.000 And most of those were criticized and kind of called out.

00:06:02.000 But as theological thought went on, you had eventually it was Albert Schweitzer that really wrote kind of the definitive work that established what we know is this quest for the historical Jesus.

00:06:13.000 And in many ways, that's kind of what broke the Harvards and the Yales and the Princetons as being theological institutions. 0.93

00:06:18.000 It was introduction of this social gospel, this social Jesus rather than a spiritual faith.

00:06:25.000 And so we started seeing really a rewriting of scripture, this revision as history that has affected people the way they think about Jesus even today.

00:06:34.000 And yeah, we see that manifest in those ridiculous advertisements, the He Gets Us, right?

00:06:40.000 Which is far more focused on the man than on the divine of Christ's nature, which again, both are equally interesting for us, but we don't worship Christ because he came as a man.

00:06:51.000 We worship him because he is Lord and King.

00:06:53.000 You know, it's interesting.

00:06:54.000 I followed those fairly closely, and they have some interesting kind of diverse names that are part of that whole creative package that went into that.

00:07:02.000 And some of those names are more concerning than others, right?

00:07:05.000 And by no means am I an expert on that, but the thing that I've seen with it is what they're calling it is sort of this pre-evangelism.

00:07:11.000 That, you know, we're not trying to share the gospel through these because there's no way you could watch these and get saved.

00:07:15.000 You couldn't watch these and see somebody, you know, kind of, you know, a priest washing somebody's feet and come to any sort of saving knowledge of the cross or anything like that.

00:07:24.000 There's no gospel presentation in them.

00:07:27.000 It's very sort of what feels like pro-pro-socialist, pro-illegal immigrant, you know, all of those things.

00:07:35.000 But they're calling it pre-evangelism.

00:07:36.000 But I don't see anything in scripture that calls us to do what is called pre-evangelism, right?

00:07:41.000 We're called to preach the gospel.

00:07:43.000 We're not called to just give little bits and pieces of it.

00:07:46.000 Yeah, and so, I mean, I spoke, I actually got the first screening from the He Gets Us people.

00:07:52.000 Andrew was on the call.

00:07:53.000 He'll attest to this.

00:07:54.000 And they wanted to partner with us, so it was like a potential great thing.

00:07:58.000 Sure, and I just said, I think this is awful.

00:08:01.000 Good for you.

00:08:02.000 Yeah, I was like, I think you guys are making a huge mistake.

00:08:05.000 But that's this is what they do, right?

00:08:06.000 The perfect example, because and I think it's so important because most people, you know, I think that are out there, the average Christian doesn't know how media works.

00:08:13.000 And so if you have some radical new concept that you want to put out there, what's the best way to get it to be accepted?

00:08:18.000 Is to find other Orthodox groups that will sign off on it and go, well, see, it's not this radical.

00:08:22.000 You know, we have groups like Turning Point and Charlie have signed off on it.

00:08:25.000 And so now all of a sudden you're giving, you know, validity to this slow sort of way of sign off on it.

00:08:31.000 Good for you.

00:08:32.000 For the record.

00:08:32.000 I did for you.

00:08:33.000 And I tried very hard to get them to dialogue.

00:08:38.000 There's so much wrong with it.

00:08:39.000 First of all, this idea of he gets us is so actually narcissistic, so narcissistic, which is like, wait, I want the divine to get me.

00:08:46.000 No, no, no.

00:08:47.000 He died.

00:08:49.000 I should get closer to him.

00:08:50.000 It's the opposite, right?

00:08:50.000 Right.

00:08:52.000 So this whole idea that he like gets me, this kind of like broy thing.

00:08:56.000 And wait, does he get me if I'm sinning?

00:08:58.000 Right.

00:08:59.000 And look, this should be an obvious, right?

00:09:01.000 The God who made me, of course, gets me.

00:09:04.000 He knows me because he thought of me, he formed me.

00:09:08.000 But the question is, do I understand him?

00:09:10.000 Am I willing to die to myself and embrace him?

00:09:13.000 Am I willing to let go of kind of that pride and that ego?

00:09:15.000 To transform and to be conformed into his image.

00:09:18.000 You know, I present it like this a lot of times: that progressivism and Christianity, they have one thing in common, and that is progress, right?

00:09:25.000 We believe in progress as Christians.

00:09:27.000 For the progressive, it's progress for progress's sake.

00:09:29.000 There's no destination in mind, it's just to basically put that dialectic to work and to transform the next generation into something further along than what the previous generation was.

00:09:39.000 And there's no end point ever in mind.

00:09:42.000 But for Christianity, we have a definitive endpoint, and that is to be conformed to the image of Christ.

00:09:47.000 And we are moving towards, so we're not against progress.

00:09:49.000 We are for progress, but we're for progress to a specific destination and that is Christ.

00:09:53.000 The right theological destiny.

00:09:55.000 100%.

00:09:56.000 Not just progress for progress' sake.

00:09:58.000 And it's Romans 12:2, which is, do not conform to the ways of this world, but instead be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

00:10:03.000 So the idea of progress is very important.

00:10:07.000 And Christianity does see history as a narrative with a beginning and end.

00:10:10.000 Most other cultures see things like a wheel.

00:10:13.000 Right.

00:10:13.000 So Hinduism, for example, sees that's one of the most famous symbols in Hinduism and Buddhism, by the way, this idea of cyclical, right?

00:10:21.000 That there really is not a beginning and an end.

00:10:22.000 It's all kind of turning.

00:10:25.000 Going to your woke Jesus point, it seems as if the Marxists and the Hegelians took the Christian view of history and they applied it to their view.

00:10:35.000 So they, because Christianity was the first to say there was the bear sheet in the beginning, you know, God created the heavens, the world, and the whole world, you know, was null and void. 0.55

00:10:43.000 And then there is Jesus on his throne and life ever after.

00:10:46.000 And everything in between, right?

00:10:46.000 Right.

00:10:48.000 You can call the church era, whatever.

00:10:50.000 The Marxists said, huh, fascinating view of history.

00:10:54.000 It also gives purpose if people believe history has an end point.

00:10:57.000 Right.

00:10:58.000 You know, look, when you look at this, I think that it's important to recognize that so many of these ideas, whether it's Hegelian thought or Marxist, you know, et cetera, paganism in general, it's a parasite. 0.76

00:10:58.000 Right. 0.76

00:11:08.000 And it's attaching itself to Christianity because Christianity is a really good vehicle, but it's actually not a great long-term host for these things because the very absoluteness of God's word stands against some of those ideas.

00:11:26.000 If the disciples, if the converts will then preach it as such, as a hot gospel, if you live up to the absoluteness of the standard, could you then argue that that absoluteness actually creates an immune system against the affection?

00:11:42.000 It should.

00:11:42.000 But when it's watered down, when it's not used fully, when it's not taught the way that it is, immunosuppressed.

00:11:49.000 You're on your 11th booster.

00:11:51.000 Yes, exactly.

00:11:52.000 You're on your 11th booster.

00:11:53.000 You're like, I don't know why the woke stuff keeps on infecting me.

00:11:56.000 It's like 100%.

00:11:58.000 You suppressed your immune system.

00:12:00.000 And I actually think, from a political standpoint, the immune system of America is truth and justice.

00:12:05.000 So when you no longer have truth and justice, your immune system is suppressed and you allow foreign invaders to take over essentially the body. 0.98

00:12:05.000 Yes. 0.98

00:12:11.000 The book is Woke Jesus.

00:12:13.000 So let's dive deeper into your book here.

00:12:15.000 What other elements kind of build us out the structure of your book?

00:12:18.000 Yeah, I want people to buy it, obviously.

00:12:19.000 Absolutely.

00:12:20.000 So the book is called Woke Jesus.

00:12:21.000 And, you know, really what I wanted to do was put together a definitive history of wokeism in specifically its integration or intersection with the church and Christianity.

00:12:32.000 Because, you know, of course, there's a secular wokeism that we see that really, you know, it doesn't really have that much of an intersection in the church.

00:12:39.000 Other than they hate Christianity and they hate everything that it stands for.

00:12:42.000 But there is this version, this kind of strand of wokeism that I believe really started in the church.

00:12:47.000 I think that wokeism has a genesis in religion.

00:12:49.000 It's a religious structure, first of all.

00:12:52.000 And it started as this sort of parasitical thought or alternative reading of scripture within Christianity.

00:12:59.000 And right from the beginning, Jesus was used as a propaganda figure.

00:13:03.000 And so I go through in the book, I go through what this known is the quest for the historical Jesus.

00:13:08.000 I take that into how the social gospel and things interacted with the form of formation of liberation theology, which is Marxism and Catholicism within the Catholic Church.

00:13:18.000 And of course, we see that jump to the United States in the form of black liberation theology with James Cohn.

00:13:23.000 And so I trace that.

00:13:24.000 I spent a lot of time reading Cohn's work.

00:13:26.000 And it's some pretty disturbing stuff when you think specifically this is a minister who's writing these words.

00:13:33.000 Things like, you know, we have to, you know, throwing a Molotov cocktail on Whitey's storefront isn't the best way to do God's work, but somebody has to start someplace. 0.96

00:13:40.000 You know, these statements like this that he makes that are really radicalized. 1.00

00:13:44.000 You have to kill the white Jesus. 1.00

00:13:46.000 You have to kill the white God. 1.00

00:13:47.000 You know, you have to become black in order to be saved. 1.00

00:13:49.000 You know, these statements. 0.53

00:13:50.000 And so then, of course, I follow that into kind of the modern, really more atheistic form of black liberation theology, which is what we know as CRT. 0.53

00:14:00.000 I don't think we would have CRT without James Cohn.

00:14:03.000 He really kind of opened up a door for a lot of those ideas and Derek Bell and others to be able to generate that.

00:14:10.000 And then, of course, the modern implications, how I have a whole theology of COVID, how we approach this.

00:14:15.000 And I really, you know, a lot of times when I write, I have a message that I want to get out there about the dangers of this progressive and woke thought.

00:14:22.000 But there's also a message for the church in there.

00:14:24.000 Well, how do we respond to this?

00:14:26.000 How do we navigate this?

00:14:27.000 I want to spend ample time on that for sure.

00:14:27.000 Of course.

00:14:29.000 So I want to get to one thing you said.

00:14:31.000 You said that wokeism parallels a religious structure.

00:14:34.000 What do you mean by that?

00:14:35.000 So, first of all, you have, you know, if we look at after the death of George Floyd, right, all of the protests and the burning of cities and all the things, these demonstrations that were happening, there's mantras.

00:14:48.000 You know, you have to say certain phraseology.

00:14:50.000 There's certain posturing.

00:14:51.000 You take a kneel, you raise a fist.

00:14:53.000 You know, it's kind of this religious framework.

00:14:56.000 You know, there are certain doctrines and dogmas that they hold to.

00:14:59.000 That if you don't, you know, if you don't say that, you know, it was that whole trying to catch people.

00:15:05.000 Silence is violence.

00:15:06.000 Silence is violence. 0.99

00:15:07.000 You know, if you don't say black lives matter, then, you know, you're a racist. 0.93

00:15:11.000 And so kind of positioning people. 0.96

00:15:11.000 Yes. 0.96

00:15:13.000 And so it has all of the trappings.

00:15:15.000 Yes, exactly.

00:15:16.000 It has all the trappings of a religion.

00:15:18.000 And it's really kind of in that Marxist framework of a man-centric religion.

00:15:24.000 They flipped the cross upside down and they put man at the top.

00:15:28.000 They really put George Floyd at the top of it in that case, as the great savior.

00:15:32.000 And the idea of wokeism, or if we want to just call it whatever that filler term is, these are counterfeit religions that are not necessarily anything new.

00:15:44.000 We should call them pagan because that's really what they are. 0.97

00:15:48.000 And involved in almost every pagan belief is child sacrifice.

00:15:53.000 Yeah.

00:15:53.000 Which, of course, our country specializes in.

00:15:56.000 You know, we sacrifice, we sacrifice a million babies every single year.

00:15:59.000 We don't, but the country does.

00:16:01.000 And the church is largely silent about that.

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00:17:20.000 So I believe that's either you believe in one God, the Shema, right? 1.00

00:17:24.000 I am the Lord your God who delivered you from Egypt, or I am the Lord your God.

00:17:28.000 You know, I am one, as it says in Deuteronomy 3 through 5, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind.

00:17:33.000 Or you believe in many different types of gods, the pantheon of gods.

00:17:38.000 And remember, the Romans, way back when, they had no problem with Paul or the apostles if they wanted to add Jesus to the pantheon, right?

00:17:48.000 It was the idea that there was a one God, that there's a monotheistic, ubiquitous Hashem over all. 0.86

00:17:56.000 Your thoughts on that, Luca?

00:17:57.000 Yeah, I mean, specifically in Rome, which is a period of time that I really enjoy reading about and reading regional documents from, is that Christians were known as atheists during that period because they didn't believe in the pantheon effect.

00:18:07.000 That's exactly.

00:18:08.000 They didn't adopt sort of this Olympic structure or Hellenistic structure of deities.

00:18:14.000 And even if they, you know, for the Roman, just to accept Jesus as one of many wasn't a big deal.

00:18:20.000 But for the Christian, that was obviously an issue.

00:18:22.000 And this is where a lot of persecutions, many of the persecutions in Rome, I think that we get a wrong idea that Romans were just constantly trying to kill Christians.

00:18:29.000 It wasn't necessarily the case, but they were creating a lot of standard kind of tests of religion that you had to demonstrate because they believed so much in the favor of this pantheon and these local deities that you had to sacrifice to them and worship them.

00:18:43.000 And Christians could not obviously participate in that because to do so would be idol worship. 0.65

00:18:47.000 It would be a betrayal of the cross.

00:18:50.000 Second commandment.

00:18:51.000 Absolutely.

00:18:51.000 And so it wasn't that they were necessarily targeting Christians, but Christians got brought into this because Rome didn't understand their faith very well, obviously, at the beginning.

00:19:00.000 But they were called atheists because they wouldn't worship all these other gods.

00:19:03.000 And this is where you have the great early Christians like Justin Martyr and others in Jerome that wrote these great apologies, these defenses of the Christian faith, showing that Christianity is actually the thing that brings the best good into the world and that it is the answer for all these injustices that are out there.

00:19:20.000 And that's how it won over the Western world.

00:19:22.000 The problem is now that wokeism is rewriting that.

00:19:24.000 It's providing this new kind of revisionist history that is tearing down those arguments.

00:19:29.000 And most Christians are not actually capable and qualified to make a strong stance about their faith. 0.96

00:19:35.000 And this is why it's so important that we get in the word, right?

00:19:37.000 That we are reading it, that we're knowing it, so that we can defend our faith in those ways.

00:19:41.000 And so when people say they are an atheist, again, I think atheism is like a psyop from Satan.

00:19:46.000 They really don't believe in nothing.

00:19:48.000 Something is their God.

00:19:50.000 And it could be the God of earth worship.

00:19:52.000 Yes.

00:19:53.000 Anti-racism.

00:19:55.000 So it might be themselves.

00:19:58.000 It might be aliens, right, in today's world.

00:20:01.000 It might be the earth.

00:20:02.000 It might be the divine, the spirit, some sort of esoteric framework that they have.

00:20:09.000 And what we're seeing right now, if you go on maybe an app like TikTok or Instagram or whatever, and you search modern paganism, you are going to get some of the craziest videos that you've ever seen of people dressed up, performing Hellenistic rituals, trying to go after the repeat and revitalize faith of the Druids and different things.

00:20:28.000 That's a great thing.

00:20:28.000 This is a real thing.

00:20:30.000 Yeah, it's massively expanding.

00:20:32.000 Yeah, it's not as big as other forms, like pride paganism.

00:20:36.000 Yeah, and that's a whole nother thing, right?

00:20:37.000 So we have all these different variants of it, and the way in which it has sort of captured this.

00:20:42.000 So, yes, we see this, you know, whether it be queer paganism or some sort of more historical framework that's trying to be revised.

00:20:51.000 It's all, though, the same thing, right?

00:20:52.000 It's being driven by this, and that is an anti-God, anti-Bible, anti-Jesus, anti-creator of the world.

00:20:59.000 It's a rebellion against God.

00:21:01.000 It's what happened in the Garden.

00:21:02.000 It's what happened again at the Tower of Babel. 0.93

00:21:04.000 It is this continuous rebellion that man becomes obsessed with to go against our Creator.

00:21:10.000 And that really is the tension point here.

00:21:12.000 The spiritual aspect of this cannot be mistaken, which is there's an enemy who comes to lie, steal, cheat, and destroy.

00:21:20.000 And all these counterfeit ways are ways to try to keep distance from our Creator.

00:21:24.000 Yeah, and look, this is an interesting thing.

00:21:25.000 And I don't know if this is going to be very popular for everybody, but as the church has expanded and really become more of kind of Christian business in many industries, the church, look, it's obviously without a doubt, it's the most humanitarian.

00:21:39.000 It gives more in humanitarian aid than any other organization.

00:21:41.000 I mean, Christians are really champions of that.

00:21:44.000 But to some degree, I think some of that has done us a disservice.

00:21:46.000 And here's what I mean by that: is that I believe that one of the benefits of actually being part of the church was the benefit of community.

00:21:53.000 And we have sort of created this world where everybody gets the benefit of Christian community, whether or not they belong to Christ or not, or whether they belong to the church.

00:22:02.000 It's sort of like having intimacy before you're married.

00:22:07.000 What reason is it for the guy to get married at that point?

00:22:09.000 And I think we have people out there that are receiving the benefits of Christianity without actually having that real draw to be led into an intimate relationship, a personal relationship with Jesus.

00:22:20.000 And I think it pushes some, I think it delays that for some people.

00:22:24.000 Yeah, and they're not, I don't know if they're actually born again.

00:22:27.000 So the church is largely indifferent to this still.

00:22:32.000 They say, I don't do politics.

00:22:35.000 I don't speak out about this stuff.

00:22:37.000 You know, we've started an organization, and you guys have been incredible to work with us at Turning Point Faith as well, called the American Pastor Project.

00:22:44.000 And it's really an initiative within our organization, the Influence Network.

00:22:48.000 And we have a call out to pastors where they would sign a statement at AmericanPastorProject.org, and they would take a stand against wokeism, basically say that I'm going to preach a historical Christianity that's based on the Bible, and I'm going to stand against wokeism at my local church.

00:23:03.000 We've got 500-plus pastors.

00:23:04.000 I know you guys have thousands of pastors you work with at Turning Point Faith.

00:23:07.000 And it's incredible to see those that are willing to take that stand.

00:23:09.000 But there are still way too many out there, as you know, that are not willing to stand up, that do really, they're not preaching the full counsel of the word of God.

00:23:18.000 They're shrinking back on these issues because they're afraid of losing their people.

00:23:21.000 I've lost 50% of my church in 2015 and 2016.

00:23:24.000 The refiners fired.

00:23:26.000 Right.

00:23:27.000 I preached an eight-week series about what does the Bible have to say.

00:23:31.000 And we looked at socialism versus the free market.

00:23:33.000 We looked at open borders and national sovereignty.

00:23:36.000 We looked at things like sexuality, gender, divorce, all of this.

00:23:39.000 And within about an eight-week period, we lost 40%, 50% more of our church.

00:23:45.000 And with that, our revenue, everything else, and we're the strongest we've ever been.

00:23:48.000 We're the biggest we've ever been.

00:23:50.000 Have you recovered past that?

00:23:51.000 Built back better, right?

00:23:52.000 You know, I mean, that's what the economy was like that, right?

00:23:55.000 But so we, we, we, but it really took getting on the other side of COVID, I think, for people in our area to wake up.

00:24:00.000 You know, I'm from South Bend.

00:24:01.000 We had, we lived through the tyrannical regime of Mayor Pete Buddiges there.

00:24:04.000 With all the potholes, yes, all the potholes, pothole peat there in South Bend.

00:24:08.000 And Domino's Pizza actually came in and gave the city a grant to repair those, by the way.

00:24:11.000 So we got bailed out by a pizza company.

00:24:12.000 He runs our transportation.

00:24:14.000 Yes, he does.

00:24:15.000 The terrain never worked from South Bend to Chicago either.

00:24:17.000 It was always broken down.

00:24:19.000 No surprise.

00:24:20.000 But, you know, look, the church, we have to circle the wagons on some stuff.

00:24:23.000 There's way too many secondary doctrines that keep Christians separated from one another.

00:24:27.000 Look, I think secondary doctrines matter.

00:24:29.000 What am I talking about?

00:24:29.000 Things like spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues, eschatology, eschatology.

00:24:33.000 I got in trouble for saying that secondary doctrine.

00:24:36.000 But look, and there are certain people that would go, there's no such thing as a secondary doctrine.

00:24:39.000 But there are.

00:24:40.000 There are.

00:24:41.000 That statement itself is.

00:24:42.000 Yes.

00:24:43.000 That might be a tertiary doctrine at that point, right?

00:24:46.000 And so we have to learn how to go, we have to set some of these things aside so that we can find unity of believers.

00:24:52.000 There is Christianity, the nation is under attack. 1.00

00:24:55.000 We have to work together if we want to see these things push back.

00:24:59.000 I completely agree.

00:25:00.000 And liberty is God's idea, not man's idea.

00:25:02.000 There still is this hesitancy, though, by some pastors who say, you know, this is how it goes.

00:25:10.000 And they're about to do these sermons when they come back from their summer sabbatical, which every pastor needs time off.

00:25:15.000 It's a tough job.

00:25:16.000 And that's not sarcasm.

00:25:17.000 It's a really, I couldn't be a pastor.

00:25:19.000 I couldn't do it.

00:25:20.000 I have such respect for people that are pastors.

00:25:23.000 It's a gifting I don't have.

00:25:25.000 Because pastoring is not just speaking.

00:25:27.000 I'm good at speaking.

00:25:28.000 Pastoring is a completely different deal.

00:25:30.000 Is they're going to come back and they'll be like, everybody, welcome.

00:25:33.000 Happy Labor Day.

00:25:35.000 I know a lot of you guys have thoughts on the election, and we have some Republicans here, and we have some Democrats here.

00:25:41.000 And I want you to know that Jesus is the only thing that we do here.

00:25:45.000 Everyone claps and applauds.

00:25:47.000 And he says, so because of that, we won't be talking about the election here.

00:25:51.000 And we are here to love on you and pray for you.

00:25:53.000 And God bless you.

00:25:55.000 How many times do you think that sermon is going to be given?

00:25:57.000 It's going to be given a bunch.

00:25:58.000 It's going to be given a couple of times.

00:26:00.000 Why is that in error?

00:26:03.000 So it's an error because there are specific things that are happening in our world and being presented that are cataclysmically against scripture, right?

00:26:10.000 They're completely antithetical to scripture.

00:26:12.000 So I was talking to a Catholic priest actually about this, and I said, you know, where are you at on the whole Republican and Democrat thing?

00:26:18.000 And he goes, look, he goes, I don't think either party is perfect.

00:26:21.000 But he says, I have to commit nine sins, according to the Catholic Church, to sign a statement to support the Democratic Party.

00:26:26.000 And just by doing that.

00:26:27.000 And I thought that was such a great position.

00:26:29.000 You know, the stance on abortion, the stance on, you know, really personal responsibility with all the socialism and entitlement programs that are there, complete just ignoring of sovereign borders and nations, the treatment towards Israel, all this stuff, all the transit, all the harming children.

00:26:46.000 I mean, it goes on and on.

00:26:47.000 Are Republicans perfect?

00:26:48.000 No, of course not.

00:26:49.000 Is anyone candidate?

00:26:50.000 No, no, of course they're not perfect.

00:26:52.000 But we have to take a stand.

00:26:53.000 Preaching the whole council of the Word of God.

00:26:55.000 I think the first time that we connected in person was at your pastor's conference, you guys did.

00:26:59.000 And one of the things I shared there was: look, the same way that God comes to Eve and says, who told you you were naked?

00:27:04.000 You know, to Adam and Eve in the garden, I think that pastors, we need to hear the Lord say to us, who told you these things were political?

00:27:10.000 Who told you that abortion was political?

00:27:11.000 Who told you that open borders is political? 0.91

00:27:14.000 That marriage is political.

00:27:15.000 These things are first and foremost spiritual issues.

00:27:17.000 And pastors, it is your job.

00:27:19.000 It's your job to speak about these things in the pulpit and to teach your people on how to be able to present.

00:27:24.000 So that's a great point.

00:27:25.000 Don't let me forget it.

00:27:26.000 It's your job because I actually think I'm finally realizing in the last couple months, they have a different opinion what their job is.

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00:29:29.000 What is the job of a pastor?

00:29:31.000 So I think the job of the pastor, first and foremost, you know, we see this in Ephesians 4: it's to train up God's people for works of service, right?

00:29:37.000 But before we get to that, that sort of job description is, and let me back up.

00:29:42.000 I would say the first job of a pastor is to protect their own anointing.

00:29:45.000 It is, and what I mean by that is that they have to protect their heart and to ensure that they stay connected to the Lord.

00:29:52.000 That is their first job.

00:29:54.000 And because so many have lost sight of that, I can't tell any pastors that never read the word other than to prepare for a message, right?

00:30:00.000 And look, you go through seasons.

00:30:02.000 You don't read the Bible.

00:30:02.000 Is that right?

00:30:03.000 I have had, you know, you have seasons, right, where you go, man, it's been a couple weeks since I really sat down and did this, other than to do message prep, right?

00:30:10.000 But look, you have to develop that discipline.

00:30:12.000 You have to go, I'm in the word on a regular basis.

00:30:15.000 I'm not a professional athlete and saying I haven't, you know, haven't run a 40 and watched film.

00:30:20.000 Right.

00:30:20.000 You know, do anything.

00:30:22.000 And I think that in our culture, the way it is, there's so many things that are pulling on pastors.

00:30:22.000 It is part of this.

00:30:27.000 Pastors expected to be, you know, travel agents and counselors and attorneys for people and all these things that they, you know, get pushed to be.

00:30:34.000 And I think that, you know, it's easy to lose sight, but you have to protect that first and foremost.

00:30:38.000 The second thing that I think is missing in the church, and this, this, I'm sure there's going to be some people who would want to debate me on this, but in Ephesians 4, before you see this mission of to train up God's people for works of service, it's not specifically the pastor only that's doing that.

00:30:50.000 It's what I would call the fourfold or the five-fold ministry.

00:30:53.000 We see apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, evangelist.

00:30:56.000 Now, I'm not going to sit here and debate whether or not there's apostles today that we're not going to use your show for that platform, right?

00:31:01.000 Unless you invite me back specifically on that topic, I won't do that to you.

00:31:04.000 I couldn't care less.

00:31:05.000 But I do believe that without a doubt, the church is called to be apostolic.

00:31:05.000 Okay.

00:31:10.000 It is called to be prophetic in the sense.

00:31:12.000 It is called to be evangelistic.

00:31:13.000 It is called to be pastoral.

00:31:14.000 It is called to be, you know, a teaching, you know, have a teaching component to it.

00:31:19.000 A healthy church has all of those.

00:31:21.000 What's the apostolic do?

00:31:22.000 It advances.

00:31:23.000 It moves the gospel forward.

00:31:24.000 It takes it from point A to point B to going into new areas.

00:31:28.000 What's prophetic do?

00:31:29.000 It speaks truth into areas that are need to have those things.

00:31:34.000 So many people that call themselves pastors are truly only doing the pastor work.

00:31:38.000 They're shepherding the sheep or they're teaching, but they're not willing to do the apostolic job of dividing doctrine and setting the record straight on what does scripture say and what does it not say.

00:31:48.000 They're not willing to do that prophetic job of really calling out things, you know, and being that voice that maybe somebody doesn't necessarily want to hear, but it needs to be said.

00:31:55.000 And we have watered down the church to one job only, and that is the pastoral, when in fact it is supposed to have all of these functions.

00:32:02.000 And again, I'm not going to say offices, but all of these attributes at minimum present.

00:32:07.000 And I think that that's something, regardless if you're coming from a Reform background or Catholic background or evangelical background, I think that we should be able to embrace that the attributes of those things should be present in the body of Christ today.

00:32:18.000 I completely agree with that.

00:32:20.000 And I just, you say this is your job.

00:32:23.000 I don't think every pastor would necessarily agree with that.

00:32:25.000 Is it okay if a pastor offends his congregation?

00:32:28.000 I think it's okay if the word of God offends a congregation, right?

00:32:31.000 I mean, look, as a pastor, you're going to offend people.

00:32:33.000 I've offended plenty of people.

00:32:34.000 I've had plenty of people leave my church because I'm being somewhat time intentional.

00:32:37.000 I understand completely, right?

00:32:37.000 Right.

00:32:39.000 We need to be unafraid.

00:32:41.000 It is that we have so many people that are kind of that Gideon in the wine press, you know, that are hiding that they're afraid of they're going to say something to set you off and trigger their audience.

00:32:49.000 And look, I'm more concerned about ignoring truth and having to face the Lord than I am about saying truth and having to face my people.

00:32:59.000 And in fact, I think loving them is speaking truth to them.

00:33:02.000 So I want to get into now just current events here.

00:33:08.000 Your opinion on this upcoming election, Donald Trump v. Biden versus all of this, as someone who loves the word, who loves the Bible, who loves liberty, how do you plan to vote?

00:33:20.000 And how should other Christians vote?

00:33:20.000 Yeah.

00:33:22.000 And how should they think about voting?

00:33:24.000 And let me say this: start with: you didn't ask me this ahead of time, so you don't know what my answer is going to be.

00:33:27.000 I know I did.

00:33:28.000 And without a doubt, I believe that there is one answer for this election, and that is Donald Trump.

00:33:33.000 And President Trump, we have seen already his time in office.

00:33:37.000 The world didn't end.

00:33:38.000 There were no new wars.

00:33:39.000 The economy was going great.

00:33:40.000 My bank account was probably doing a little better even than it is right now.

00:33:43.000 And there were many, you know, many, many, many reasons to vote for him.

00:33:47.000 And you've done a great job addressing some of those over the years.

00:33:50.000 He has also been the most pro-Christian president, I think, that we've ever had.

00:33:54.000 And, you know, repealing the Johnson Amendment from day one, you know, being able to, first Christian president I care first president I can ever remember who was speaking about persecuted Christians and actually addressing that.

00:34:05.000 I can't remember any other president ever addressing persecuted Christians the way that he did.

00:34:09.000 You have to go to March for Life.

00:34:09.000 Yes, absolutely.

00:34:11.000 And so I think this is an easy call.

00:34:12.000 This is a good versus evil election.

00:34:14.000 Is Donald Trump perfect?

00:34:15.000 No, of course not.

00:34:16.000 None of us are.

00:34:17.000 But do I think he has a handle on the tyranny that we're facing today as a nation?

00:34:22.000 Do I think he has a handle on what's going on in the world and the way in which elites are trying to use power to really control the masses?

00:34:29.000 I think he absolutely does.

00:34:31.000 And I think his policies have already been proven.

00:34:33.000 I think we're going to see them work again.

00:34:35.000 I want to play Cut 75 here.

00:34:37.000 Jill Biden agrees with you.

00:34:38.000 It is good versus evil. 0.70

00:34:40.000 Let's play Cut 75.

00:34:42.000 I've raised alarm bells among other Republicans about the danger of a second Donald Trump term.

00:34:47.000 And I'm genuinely fearful for what that could look like.

00:34:49.000 But consistently, we're seeing poll after poll that are showing Trump beating your husband outside of the margin of error.

00:34:56.000 Are you fearful of what a second Trump term could look like?

00:34:59.000 Or a third, as Donald Trump says.

00:35:02.000 So I believe that Americans are going to choose good over evil.

00:35:11.000 Woe to those who call good evil and evil good.

00:35:14.000 Yes.

00:35:15.000 And look, I mean, to some degree, I think that she's got a little bit of a prophetic statement because I do believe that Americans are going to choose speaking through Dr. Jill Biden. 0.70

00:35:24.000 He's spoken through donkeys before, right?

00:35:26.000 We can make this work.

00:35:27.000 Ballum's donkey in numbers, right?

00:35:29.000 It wouldn't be the first time.

00:35:30.000 And so, yes, this is a good versus evil election.

00:35:33.000 And I think without a doubt, Americans do need to do the right thing.

00:35:37.000 And is Donald Trump going to solve every problem?

00:35:39.000 No.

00:35:39.000 Is the job of the church done after Donald Trump is elected?

00:35:42.000 No, we've got so much work to do to win back this nation.

00:35:45.000 That might buy us sometime.

00:35:47.000 It gives us a little bit of a reprieve.

00:35:49.000 So what do you have to say then to Christians?

00:35:51.000 And they come to my event and they say, but he's allegedly an adulterer, lived a colorful life.

00:35:59.000 I don't like the way he talks.

00:36:01.000 I get those objections only from very, very committed Christians. 0.99

00:36:09.000 This is a group of folks that are incredibly devout.

00:36:14.000 And not all, by the way, there's super devout people that don't share this, like us, right?

00:36:18.000 But there's a hesitancy.

00:36:21.000 And they say, I can't vote for him.

00:36:23.000 How should they think about it?

00:36:24.000 Should they prioritize his behavior or his actions and policies?

00:36:29.000 So, you know, statements like that actually, to some degree, are some evidence that we have, in fact, lived in historically a Christian nation, right?

00:36:38.000 Because there's an assumption that a candidate is actually going to hold to Christian values, right?

00:36:42.000 So we have people that, I mean, that in of itself kind of gives some validity to that.

00:36:46.000 And so we have to, you know, come to terms.

00:36:48.000 Let's just set aside Donald Trump's faith for a second.

00:36:50.000 You know, you know him personally.

00:36:52.000 I've not met him personally in those things.

00:36:54.000 And so let's just set that aside.

00:36:56.000 Let's just look at his policies.

00:36:58.000 We have a track record.

00:36:59.000 We've seen him in office.

00:36:59.000 We've seen what he's done.

00:37:00.000 All these statements of he's going to blow up the world and lead a nuclear war, those are hollowed out, right?

00:37:05.000 Because we've already have evidence that none of that happened.

00:37:07.000 And the world is actually blowing up.

00:37:08.000 And the world is blowing up now, right?

00:37:09.000 So we know that those things are hollowed arguments.

00:37:11.000 But when we look at these other things, the reality is that there might come a time in America's history, I pray it doesn't, where we don't have any sort of Christian choice on the ballot.

00:37:20.000 And so how are we going to handle that then?

00:37:22.000 You know, are we able to go through and say, is one better than another?

00:37:27.000 Is one Caesar better than another Caesar in this regard?

00:37:30.000 And I think the answer absolutely is yes.

00:37:32.000 And look, to have a president that at all identifies and supports Christian values, that continues to honor God, continues to honor Jesus, continues to honor pastors and prayer.

00:37:44.000 And, you know, we're actually talking with his people right now about the possibility of trying to get him on the American Pastor Project for one of our calls.

00:37:50.000 And I believe that pastors need to hear from President Trump on these issues.

00:37:54.000 We need to hear from any world leader on these issues that are facing the church.

00:37:58.000 So they are aware of our concerns and that we also have a chance to impact them and influence them as well as they are fighting for all of our behalf.

00:38:04.000 So I think these are empty arguments. 0.96

00:38:06.000 I think they're foolish arguments. 0.97

00:38:07.000 Of course, we all would love to have that Christian prince, but I'm not waiting for a Christian prince. 0.99

00:38:13.000 I already have one.

00:38:14.000 His name's Jesus, right?

00:38:16.000 And so we need the best option for the American people right now, and we only have one option, and that's Donald Trump.

00:38:21.000 I completely agree.

00:38:23.000 And the question is, can we get enough Christians to prioritize the good, the true, the beautiful, the nation, liberty, self-government over their, I don't know, their hesitancy, their potential issues of Donald Trump's behavior.

00:38:41.000 I also just, I have very little patience for it when it just comes to the fundamental life or death type issues.

00:38:48.000 Donald Trump is all that stands between a pagan regime basically permanently engulfing the country. 0.86

00:38:54.000 But look, so, I mean, this is what a lot of people aren't aware of.

00:38:56.000 How much of Christian music, how much of Christian universities, how much of Christian publications have been infiltrated by leftist ideology already, and that they are pushing this.

00:39:05.000 And so the Christians that are out there that aren't as engaged as you or I, they're getting a subscription to Christianity Today and these other publications that are essentially being used as propaganda centers for a lot of these ideas.

00:39:16.000 And look, there's good people with all these institutions and publications, but I think as a whole, a lot of them have been impacted very negatively.

00:39:25.000 My previous book, The Christian Left, goes into all of that.

00:39:28.000 And look, we have seen this.

00:39:29.000 And so it's no surprise we're where we are today because millions of dollars have been spent trying to convince Christians of this very idea to prevent them from voting for figures like this.

00:39:40.000 Remember as a kid, your parents and grandparents making you try all the vegetables on your plate or when they coaxed you to eat fruit instead of sweets?

00:39:46.000 That's because they knew what was good for you.

00:39:49.000 And it's truer today than ever before.

00:39:51.000 You need to eat your fruits and veggies.

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00:40:35.000 So the marching orders for Christians right now in this election year, what would you in the idea like to see from the church?

00:40:43.000 The ideal?

00:40:44.000 I think that you have to have one foot in the local and one foot in the national conversation.

00:40:48.000 You know, look, not every pastor is doing tons of interviews.

00:40:51.000 I mean, I did 500 interviews last year on major publications and those things.

00:40:56.000 And I understand that that's a rarity for a lot of people, but we have to at least be aware of what's happening at a national level.

00:41:01.000 We have to be able to have those conversations because your people are watching the news.

00:41:04.000 They're involved in this.

00:41:05.000 You have to be able to answer those things.

00:41:06.000 Anytime there's a major world event, I'm addressing that usually as what my staff calls the pre-message.

00:41:11.000 I'm getting up there.

00:41:12.000 I might have a topic that I'm teaching on on that Sunday, but I'm going to take a little time and I'm going to address that to my church.

00:41:18.000 I'm saying these things not just as a traveling circuit speaker.

00:41:20.000 I'm a senior pastor of a ministry.

00:41:22.000 I preach almost every single Sunday at our church based in South Bend, Indiana.

00:41:27.000 And we've seen the importance of this with these issues.

00:41:31.000 There's also, you have to be involved in the local.

00:41:32.000 You have to, you know, know what's going on at your school board, know what's going on at your county politics, all of these things.

00:41:37.000 Get involved in that.

00:41:38.000 Maybe you have some people in your ministry that you can help raise up to run for office.

00:41:41.000 Maybe you need to run for office and to be able to assist this.

00:41:44.000 And I think that we have to be able to do that.

00:41:46.000 We also have to answer some of these big questions that people have.

00:41:49.000 I mean, look at the millennial and Gen Z.

00:41:51.000 They have questions about the environment.

00:41:52.000 They have questions about sexuality and gender and marriage and all these things.

00:41:55.000 We need to show them how scripture speaks to these things and actually provides a better solution than what the world offers. 0.97

00:42:01.000 And instead of just discounting them and calling them stupid, you know, we need to answer them. 0.95

00:42:04.000 You do such a great job at your events when you have banter back and forth with that, you know, doing that specifically. 0.99

00:42:09.000 So then there's the other part of this.

00:42:10.000 Yes.

00:42:11.000 Which is there's the pastor that says don't get involved, but then there's also the pastor like this, the false white gospel, where they say we must reject Christian nationalism.

00:42:21.000 Yes.

00:42:22.000 How should we think about that term?

00:42:23.000 So I was really hoping that my take on Christian nationalism would have taken over the nation. 0.97

00:42:29.000 Everybody's do it this time.

00:42:31.000 So look, I think that the term Christian nationalist, look, I know that there are people that have embraced it and they've said, you know, if that's what you want to call me, then that's what I am.

00:42:38.000 And yeah, yeah, I want God to take over the country and everything else.

00:42:41.000 And I understand that and I understand the case for that.

00:42:44.000 But I think, I don't think that we need other monikers for being Christians other than Christian, disciple, believer.

00:42:50.000 I'm okay with conservative Christian because we have so many that are not conservative Christians or biblical Christian denominations.

00:42:58.000 Yes, that you have to kind of say that.

00:43:00.000 But this idea that there is a false white gospel, I mean, this is straight out.

00:43:03.000 James Cohen could have written this book today, right?

00:43:05.000 It's just a regurgitation of that. 1.00

00:43:07.000 It is that we have to kill the white Jesus. 1.00

00:43:09.000 We have to do this. 0.99

00:43:10.000 It's the oppressor versus oppressed, Marxist framework, except for instead of proletariat versus bourgeoisie, it is now the white theology versus black Christian, or there's black gospel or non-white gospel.

00:43:24.000 And look, when you look at Christianity started in diversity, how many, Augustine, first of all, like from Northern Africa, I mean, probably the most influential person outside of New Testament thinkers.

00:43:34.000 And this is, I mean, how much did he write and shape what we know of of the church and Christianity today, of being able to interpret a lot of, you know, these New Testament scriptures?

00:43:34.000 Yes.

00:43:45.000 And he was somebody, he was a person of color.

00:43:47.000 You know, and so much of ear, so many of early Christian thinkers were people of color from different parts of the world.

00:43:47.000 Yes.

00:43:53.000 The gospel has never been a white gospel, and nobody's preaching a white gospel.

00:43:57.000 Maybe some backwoods KKK group or somebody someplace.

00:44:00.000 I haven't met him.

00:44:01.000 But I haven't met them yet, right?

00:44:02.000 Exactly.

00:44:03.000 And so, you know, there is not, this is a straw man argument that Wallace is using here. 0.97

00:44:08.000 It's completely ridiculous.

00:44:09.000 I think that Christian nationalists, the true Christian nationalists, and this was my take, the true Christian nationalists are the Christian left, because there is no difference right now between, say, thinkers like Brandon Robertson, the kind of TikTok progressive, you know, LGBT preacher, and the Biden administration's view on gender, sexuality, open borders, socialism. 0.84

00:44:29.000 They have identical doctrines and dogmas from state and church on the progressive church.

00:44:34.000 They have truly bowed the knee to the state, and they are the true Christian nationalists, I think. 0.57

00:44:39.000 Now, I understand that that term has all sorts of different definitions for people, but I think if you look at historically what happened in Germany, who were the Christian nationalists, it was the progressive church.

00:44:49.000 It was not the believing church that Bonhoeffer and others were part of.

00:44:53.000 It was the Nazified German church that bowed the knee to the Third Reich. 0.91

00:44:57.000 That's exactly what we're seeing happen right now today.

00:44:59.000 And I'm not saying that they're all Nazis, but I'm saying that they are bowing their knee to a false agenda of the state, and they have left Christian doctrine at the door of the church.

00:45:07.000 Having traveled the country and been to a lot of churches, you spoke one in Mesa last night?

00:45:12.000 Yeah, I was in Mesa last night.

00:45:14.000 I didn't speak, but it was special service.

00:45:15.000 We were there as special guests.

00:45:18.000 Are you optimistic?

00:45:19.000 I am optimistic.

00:45:20.000 I'm always optimistic, Charlie.

00:45:22.000 It's a lot of temperament.

00:45:22.000 It's just, it's how I'm wired.

00:45:24.000 But optimism doesn't mean stick your head in the sand.

00:45:26.000 It means we've got a lot of work to do, and I'm willing to do the work.

00:45:28.000 I'm willing to put in time and have the conversations with people.

00:45:32.000 This is why I write.

00:45:34.000 This is why I work as hard as we do.

00:45:36.000 My wife and I, we don't have children.

00:45:38.000 We've had some challenges in that area.

00:45:41.000 And we've dedicated our lives to the sharing of the gospel.

00:45:43.000 This is something that we're both involved in.

00:45:45.000 And she's here with me in the studio, as you know.

00:45:47.000 And this is our life's mission, our life's calling.

00:45:50.000 And is the church always going to thrive in America?

00:45:52.000 I don't know.

00:45:53.000 It faltered in Europe.

00:45:54.000 We see these monuments that we call churches and cathedrals in Europe that are beautiful, but they're a reminder of a place where the church was once alive, and now it's dead.

00:46:03.000 And I'm afraid that if it happens here, there's not going to be any beautiful buildings left to even know what.

00:46:07.000 Was that a bowl in alley?

00:46:08.000 Was it a strip club?

00:46:08.000 I don't know.

00:46:09.000 It might have been a church.

00:46:10.000 I don't know.

00:46:10.000 There's nothing distinctive about the church here in America if we don't carry the gospel first and foremost.

00:46:16.000 The book is woke Jesus.

00:46:17.000 You also have the Christian left, right?

00:46:18.000 Yeah, I have that one at home too.

00:46:21.000 And I know someone who really enjoyed it, I enjoyed it too.

00:46:24.000 But it's been a while since I've flipped through that.

00:46:27.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:46:29.000 You're also coming down to our Believer Summit.

00:46:30.000 Is that right?

00:46:31.000 Yeah, in July.

00:46:31.000 Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.

00:46:32.000 It's late July.

00:46:33.000 We're going to really be ramping up promotion for that in late July, where we have Lucas Smiles and really big speakers.

00:46:42.000 It's our Believer Summit.

00:46:44.000 The theme is Here I Am, Hanani, which is said seven times throughout the Old Testament scriptures, always during a time of choosing and binding of Isaac and the call of Samuel and the call of Moses.

00:46:55.000 So that is going to be the theme of our event in Florida.

00:46:59.000 Lucas, thank you so much.

00:47:00.000 God bless you, man.

00:47:01.000 And yeah, anything else you want to plug?

00:47:03.000 20 seconds? 0.98

00:47:04.000 Congrats on the new baby.

00:47:05.000 Oh, thank you.

00:47:06.000 Praise God.

00:47:07.000 Check out American Pastor Project.

00:47:08.000 If your pastor hasn't signed it yet, ask them why they have it because you might be in a woke church.

00:47:12.000 Use it as a great litmus test, AmericanPastorProject.org.

00:47:15.000 Great.

00:47:16.000 Thank you.

00:47:16.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:47:17.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:47:20.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:47:24.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - May 30, 2024

The Real Jesus vs. Woke Jesus with Lucas Miles

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