The Charlie Kirk Show - The Reporter Who Brings Down Harvard Presidents ft. Aaron Sibarium

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 Aaron Sabarium from Washington Free Beacon.

00:00:07.000 Boy, this is a really illuminating conversation about DEI and medicine about how your anesthesiologists might not be qualified.

00:00:15.000 UCLA Medical and more.

00:00:17.000 Email us as always, Freedom at Charlie Kirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.

00:00:21.000 That's the Charlie Kirk Show podcast page.

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00:00:26.000 That is TP USA.com.

00:00:28.000 Buckle up everybody here.

00:00:30.000 We go.

00:00:30.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:32.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:34.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:38.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:41.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:42.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:43.000 His spirit is love of this country.

00:00:45.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:51.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are gonna fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:00.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:01.000 The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.

00:01:14.000 Hey, everybody, we have a very special conversation with you today.

00:01:19.000 A very smart person who honestly deserves some of those awards they keep giving out to those fake journalists.

00:01:25.000 It's Aaron Sabarian.

00:01:26.000 Aaron, great to see you and meet you.

00:01:28.000 Great to be here.

00:01:29.000 And I've been following your work for a while, and I want to go through some of your greatest hits, because I have them here.

00:01:34.000 Uh but first, I want to just kind of give you a chance to introduce yourself.

00:01:37.000 You're an investigative reporter with the Washington Free Beacon, and you went to Yale.

00:01:42.000 I did.

00:01:43.000 I did.

00:01:43.000 How did so you go to Yale and you don't end up at the New York Times?

00:01:48.000 Correct.

00:01:48.000 So I came into Yale, uh moderate Democrat, and then kind of went through a uh series of sort of incremental radicalizing moments that pushed me.

00:01:59.000 I don't know how far right they pushed me, but they definitely pushed me further and further right.

00:02:04.000 And by 2020, I certainly felt more comfortable within right-wing institutions than left-wing ones.

00:02:11.000 What what were those radicalizing events?

00:02:13.000 Yeah, so I mean there were really two at Yale.

00:02:16.000 The first is that um Yale has this thing called the Yopolitical Union, which is comprised of all these little kind of debating societies, political parties.

00:02:23.000 And I came in thinking, well, I'm a moderate Democrat, so I'll join the party of the left, right?

00:02:28.000 That's what good Democrats do. 0.99

00:02:30.000 But their first resolution of the term was resolved, abolish the police.

00:02:35.000 And this was in 2014, mind you.

00:02:37.000 So kind of a little before.

00:02:40.000 It was a yeah, I think it was before.

00:02:44.000 Yes, it was before Michael Brown.

00:02:45.000 So at the time I just thought, well, that's stupid.

00:02:47.000 No one's ever gonna take that seriously, right?

00:02:49.000 Whereas Or make it policy.

00:02:51.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:02:52.000 Whereas the uh whereas the uh conservative party, which is another one of them was debating, resolved that Socrates deserved to die.

00:02:59.000 And I remember seeing that and thinking, that's interesting, and I've never thought to ask that question.

00:03:04.000 These guys seem cool, I'm gonna hang out with them.

00:03:07.000 That's a much more thought-provoking question.

00:03:08.000 Exactly.

00:03:09.000 Much more so so right at the start, it just seemed like there was a sort of vibrancy to the conservative intellectual scene that was was lacking on the left.

00:03:16.000 And then the the second big radicalizing moment was um the there were all these protests in 2015 over cultural appropriation, Halloween costumes.

00:03:26.000 There was a there's a famous video in which uh uh at the time he was an administrator, he got encircled in the courtyard of one of the residential colleges at Yale and and basically accosted.

00:03:37.000 I mean, he wasn't he wasn't physically hurt, but he was surrounded by these jeering students who were saying, you haven't made this a safe space, you know, this is supposed to be a home, free speech doesn't matter, so on and so forth.

00:03:48.000 And then things just kind of spiraled out of control from there.

00:03:50.000 And I guess the maybe sort of two point fifth radicalizing moment is that during that time I was the opinion editor of the Yale Daily News, the campus paper, and so I had to sit there and feeled all of the op-eds from real I mean of all sides of the campus debate, but from the protesters.

00:04:09.000 And it's like I remember sitting next to a girl editing her piece that was literally arguing that demands for rational debate were a form of white supremacy designed to police the emotionality of women of color.

00:04:21.000 And in some ways, the creepiest part of all this is that this girl, I had had a I had a class with her.

00:04:27.000 She's not a dumb girl at all.

00:04:28.000 She's very it's like in terms Of just raw IQ, very smart, but she was saying this just absolute and I kind of had to sit there and pretend that I thought it was a valuable perspective and edit it and say, yes, yes, your voice matters and and edit it, make it better.

00:04:42.000 Um, seeing up close what the alleged best and brightest actually thought uh was pretty radicalizing.

00:04:52.000 Aaron Powell And now she's probably like a circuit court judge or something. 1.00

00:04:55.000 I yeah, I'm not sure exactly what she's doing now.

00:04:57.000 But uh I mean I know she went to law school, so that's you never know.

00:05:01.000 Yeah, or she's like an FBI agent or something. 0.98

00:05:03.000 But no, that's the that that that I think is an important thing to spend a little bit of time on is that this was not University of Wisconsin Madison, no offense to them.

00:05:13.000 But this is this is the pipeline for our nation's decision makers.

00:05:17.000 Right.

00:05:17.000 There was uh the the South Park episode that kind of made fun of you a little.

00:05:22.000 Yeah.

00:05:23.000 It was great.

00:05:24.000 No, it's it was great.

00:05:25.000 Well, but it was what I thought was funny, you know, that the the students in that episode, uh the fake students, you know, are are trying to defend abortion rights or whatever and say kind of normal liberal things.

00:05:37.000 Honestly, what they're saying in South Park, the kind of fake, you know, parodies of liberal students was a lot more reasonable than what the kids at Yale were actually saying in 2015, right?

00:05:47.000 It's not like they were saying, well, you know, women's right to choose, and who are you to decide when life began.

00:05:52.000 No, I mean this was full-on, you know, you cannot debate anything or disagree with any minority or you're racist.

00:05:59.000 I mean, and it really the sort of Fox News caricature was in fact accurate.

00:06:04.000 I mean, it there really was no daylight between how I think kind of conservative media portrayed those kids and how they were in behavior.

00:06:14.000 Has it gotten worse or better since 2014 at Yale?

00:06:19.000 Uh it probably I would assume that in 2020 it got pretty bad.

00:06:24.000 I think it kind of recovered a bit post-2015, then 2020 probably hit a nadir.

00:06:29.000 And then you know, now with Trump in office, I I expect that there is slightly more intellectual freedom in the classroom.

00:06:37.000 I do get the sense conservative kids on campus are a bit more involved.

00:06:41.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:06:43.000 I mean I would assume so.

00:06:45.000 I I will also tell you that the undergrad, as bad as that was, was never as crazy as Yale Law School, which went through a period of just absolute insanity, where from what my friends who attended it told me it really was like Sophia communism.

00:06:58.000 Trevor Burrus, Jr.

00:06:59.000 I know you're not a Yale historian, but I mean you do know the institution well.

00:07:01.000 I mean, William F. Buckley obviously wrote, you know, God Man in Yale, I think that was the title.

00:07:05.000 Yeah.

00:07:05.000 Um what where did what where for our audience that doesn't quite follow this but knows it's a problem.

00:07:12.000 Where did this come from?

00:07:14.000 Why is it that Yale would get to a place where you have to feel the nap-ed where someone says I I wrote I wrote down like that that basically I can't I should be able to dismiss or have a higher elevation of my opinion based solely on immutable characteristics.

00:07:34.000 Why has that been taken seriously at our nation's illegal.

00:07:38.000 Yeah, I mean, that's obvious.

00:07:38.000 I mean, we could have a uh an hour or two-hour conversation just about that question.

00:07:43.000 I I will say what I observed was that it was not the majority of students who actually believed that.

00:07:49.000 Um but there was a kind of massive preference falsification.

00:07:53.000 So one of the What does that mean?

00:07:54.000 So people would just pretend to go along with it, right?

00:07:58.000 And would never pretend to believe it.

00:08:01.000 And and one very illustrative example is that as the opinion editor of the YDN, I also had to write sort of the the editorial that was the paper's position, and we would have meetings where we would decide what the paper's position should be.

00:08:16.000 And during the meeting where we were supposed to decide what to say about the protests, it became clear right away that if you spoke up and said, hey, I think this is going too far, what about free speech, you were gonna immediately be shouted down as a racist.

00:08:28.000 And so no one did, but I had people come up to me afterwards and say, after we had basically democratically quote unquote decided to vote vote to endorse the protests, a lot of people told me, look, I I didn't really agree with that.

00:08:41.000 I have issues with the protests, but I felt like I couldn't speak.

00:08:43.000 Yeah, I I remember one girl in particular literally said that almost verbatim to me.

00:08:48.000 Trevor Burrus, Jr.

00:08:48.000 So much of this is just third grade peer pressure that just gets elevated ton't be too surprising.

00:08:54.000 Aaron Powell And you mentioned the New York Times earlier.

00:08:56.000 I mean, some of these students without naming names did in fact go on to work at the New York Times.

00:09:00.000 Or the Washington Post.

00:09:01.000 Right.

00:09:01.000 Which is some of them.

00:09:02.000 Yes, right.

00:09:03.000 Which then like no names right now.

00:09:04.000 Right, right.

00:09:04.000 Which then, like five years later had its own kind of struggle sessions during George Floyd.

00:09:08.000 So yeah, I mean that's so talk more about that.

00:09:10.000 Again, I didn't I don't want to spend too much time on this, but what they do on the college campus doesn't stay there.

00:09:14.000 It metastasizes into the next institution.

00:09:16.000 Yes, yes.

00:09:17.000 It m metastasizes into media and medicine is another big one.

00:09:21.000 I mean it all of them really corporate America, but I think medicine is that is a story that that has not fully, I think, been been appreciated.

00:09:30.000 Just how I did a lot of reporting in the We have these stories, by the way.

00:09:35.000 Yeah.

00:09:36.000 So but keep going.

00:09:37.000 Yeah, so I had a lot of re did a lot of reporting in late 2021, early 2022 about the effort to ration COVID drugs based on race.

00:09:46.000 Right here.

00:09:46.000 It's one of your best, by the way, you deserve huge credit.

00:09:48.000 I remember we covered this for days.

00:09:50.000 Keep going.

00:09:51.000 Yeah.

00:09:51.000 And and so I I mean these ideas about kind of race-based redistribution that were inculcating in the academy did not stay confined to a critical race theory seminar at Harvard Law School.

00:10:04.000 I mean they became government policy in not just you know a city or or county, but in like multiple U.S. states um at least three New York, Utah, and Minnesota all had these race conscious triage schemes where basically the way it worked was that if you were not white, you automatically got two extra points added to your COVID risk score.

00:10:28.000 And two points was about the same weight they would give to things like obesity or diabetes.

00:10:34.000 And so if you held everything else equal the nonwite person was going to win every time and there was really very I mean there was not any serious scientific argument that, you know this was an exact way to quantify risk or that all non white people were really at you know that much more risk of developing serious COVID. 0.90

00:10:55.000 I mean this was all nonsense but they did it anyway.

00:10:59.000 And they only stopped after I reported on it and then people threatened to sue them.

00:11:04.000 Aaron Ross Powell Yeah I have the story I mean it's incredible.

00:11:06.000 So just to be clear that life-saving COVID drugs were given in a rationed way against white people to prefer black or Latino people or or as they say Latinx ethnicity.

00:11:20.000 Yep yep and I would I would note too that it it literally in some of these schemes just lumped in every single person who wasn't white which like even if you thought that maybe one particular racial group for some genetic reason was at a much higher risk of COVID and there could be some reason why we really should take that into account that's not what they were doing.

00:11:39.000 They were just saying well of these groups which in fact had very different rates of COVID mortality they're all not white so we'll just kind of create a category for nonwise and give them extra voice.

00:11:49.000 In your story in Minnesota health officials have devised their own ethical framework that prioritizes black 18 year olds over white 64 year olds for COVID drugs.

00:12:03.000 Now I think this was monoclonal antibodies if I'm not mistaken.

00:12:06.000 Yes.

00:12:07.000 Which actually was a very effective treatment.

00:12:10.000 Remember this was in January 2022 so we're about a year and a half into the whole thing.

00:12:15.000 And monoclonal antibodies were very promising immediate developments to kind of to help.

00:12:22.000 So this is not just some trivial thing.

00:12:24.000 But an 18-year-old black kid in downtown Minneapolis like an 18-year-old Somalian kid could get monoclonal antibodies easier than a 64 year old veteran that fought in Vietnam.

00:12:35.000 Yeah so holding constant all of their health conditions right that's true.

00:12:40.000 But of course the thing is that age was the biggest predictor of COVID mortality by far.

00:12:46.000 Yes but they're using race.

00:12:47.000 Yes, but they have racism.

00:12:49.000 So, I mean, I really want to dwell on this for a second.

00:12:51.000 How is this possible?

00:12:54.000 I mean, how did we as a country, thankfully, I want to get into that in a second, have we actually turned the page on it, but this parasitic ideology, what do you want to call it, woke mind virus, whatever, it went into medicine where we are less likely to give out life-saving drugs just because of some sort of oppression framework we're working from.

00:13:15.000 Yeah.

00:13:16.000 I mean, I think there's a lot of reasons why it became such a powerful force in medicine.

00:13:21.000 One of them is that the field of public health kind of...

00:13:24.000 from its inception was was based in sort of what you might call proto-woke premises, right?

00:13:30.000 because the whole idea behind public health, right, is that there are social forces that affect the spread of disease.

00:13:35.000 Now, of course, that's true and uncontroversial at a sufficient level of generality, but you can see how if that's your mindset to look for social forces that influence uh epidemiological patterns or influence the spread of disease, you're going to be more open to these kinds of DEI critical race theories that that prescribe rationing drugs based on race, right?

00:14:02.000 Um I think that's one reason.

00:14:04.000 Um then the other, and again, this is a little more speculative, but I I get the sense that to to become a doctor, you have to jump through all of these hoops and it it may select for a certain kind of person who's smart but perhaps also somewhat conformist and just as willing to kind of do whatever uh the check whatever boxes they're told to check.

00:14:26.000 Um and unlike, say, law, which has its own problems, but at least in law, you know, when doing legal training, there's some emphasis on getting the other side, debating.

00:14:36.000 There's nothing like that in medicine, so I just think medicine hasn't developed really any antibodies against wokesome. 0.93

00:14:42.000 How did you find this story?

00:14:44.000 Someone I think it might have been Carol Markowitz, the journalist, tweeted Yeah.

00:14:49.000 She tweeted about New York's, and I just thought, huh, I wonder if any other states are doing this.

00:14:53.000 And so I basically just started Googling.

00:14:55.000 This was before Chat GPT.

00:14:57.000 So I just started Googling, trying to find uh other examples.

00:15:00.000 And I found this is perhaps the most scandalous part.

00:15:02.000 This was all public.

00:15:03.000 I mean, they didn't even try to hide it.

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00:16:07.000 So the CDC said high risk states that, quote, systemic health and social inequities have put minorities at increased risk.

00:16:17.000 So it's the it's the systemic racism is the reason why they're dying.

00:16:22.000 Yeah, and there was also this this guidance the FDA put out that said race could be a risk factor.

00:16:28.000 And it again, you know, in some sense, like yes, it's true that there were statistical correlations between race and COVID 19 mortality.

00:16:38.000 But is it factoring for all the other variables though?

00:16:40.000 Well, no, probably not.

00:16:41.000 And that's because I mean this is not a racist thing to say, but black Americans tend to be more overweight in the you know 40s or 50s, especially black women than their counterparts.

00:16:50.000 So that's that's just that's just because of statistical facts.

00:16:53.000 Yes, yes, and and there's also probably difference I mean, it's also class differences, right?

00:16:59.000 Like I think I mean, one thing that's interesting is actually one of the states of Utah later claimed that one of the reasons they abandoned the scheme is that it wasn't even working to get the drugs to minorities.

00:17:09.000 And reading between the lines, I well, right, and of course it that wouldn't make it okay, but I think the whole premise is so sinister.

00:17:15.000 Yes, yes, yes.

00:17:16.000 But it I would just point out that, you know, it it may well have been that the problem here was that, you know, the people they wanted to get the drugs to just weren't coming in the door.

00:17:26.000 And so all they really ended up doing was kind of erecting barriers for white people.

00:17:29.000 It didn't even do accomplish its desired goal.

00:17:33.000 Right.

00:17:34.000 Right.

00:17:34.000 Or 90%.

00:17:35.000 Right, right.

00:17:36.000 The 10% are like Polynesian. 1.00

00:17:37.000 I mean, they have like very small black population.

00:17:39.000 Yeah.

00:17:39.000 I mean, they're they're yeah.

00:17:41.000 And if your goal was to reach them, there probably were ways you could have done it, but sort of this crude scheme of racial preferences was not.

00:17:47.000 Well, so it's very interesting.

00:17:49.000 I mean, this is somewhat of like a really cruel and dark thought experiment.

00:17:53.000 Yeah.

00:17:53.000 You could imagine a philosophy professor or a morality ethics professor saying, what if I had a life-saving drug?

00:18:00.000 How should we distribute it to the population?

00:18:02.000 You know what I mean?

00:18:03.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:18:04.000 That's kind of what was on display.

00:18:05.000 And he's like, let's have a discussion about it today.

00:18:07.000 Yeah.

00:18:07.000 And you see how that is actually put in practice.

00:18:10.000 Right.

00:18:10.000 And it was this fact sheet from what is so trovamab.

00:18:15.000 That's one of the monoclonal languages.

00:18:17.000 Okay, got it.

00:18:17.000 Yeah.

00:18:17.000 Okay, got it.

00:18:18.000 So you report this, which is just obviously like a ridiculous violation of the Civil Rights Act.

00:18:26.000 Yeah.

00:18:26.000 Right, which has its problems, but and then they back off.

00:18:29.000 And the Minnesota and Utah Health.

00:18:31.000 Utah, that's a red state.

00:18:33.000 Yeah.

00:18:36.000 It it it's it's really amazing how even in red states this stuff uh has has spread very far.

00:18:42.000 You see this in universities too, where people have this idea that the DEI programs are much worse at Ivy League schools than they are at, you know, public schools in red states.

00:18:52.000 That is not true.

00:18:53.000 Um there's a great uh another journalist named John Saylor who's done really good FOIA work um FOIN just all of these red state universities, and they put things in writing like, you know, we don't want to hire a white man.

00:19:07.000 I mean, that's how explicit it is.

00:19:08.000 And that's that's at in red states.

00:19:10.000 So it's yes, it it really any kind of this is a bit of an overgeneralization, but but generally institutions that are not directly subject to the levers of electoral power, or that um state governments have kind of taken a hands-off approach to that it got its hooks in to all of them, right?

00:19:33.000 Is that what what is it about wokism?

00:19:38.000 I hate that term because it's overused.

00:19:40.000 That it just has to keep on infecting.

00:19:43.000 Has to keep on spreading.

00:19:44.000 Like you guys control enough already.

00:19:46.000 Control Hollywood, you control the schools, you control the music, you control you control the NFL, but you also have to control our monoclonal antibody distribution.

00:19:53.000 Right.

00:19:53.000 It's like it's almost a it's like an Islamic um.

00:19:57.000 You know, the the umah in Islamic theology is like the all-covering of God. 0.89

00:20:01.000 It's like wokism must cover all society. 0.99

00:20:04.000 Right.

00:20:05.000 Well, I mean, one thing about wokism is that it doesn't really acknowledge kind of a the distinction between the public and private sphere, right?

00:20:14.000 You hear people say everything is political, right?

00:20:16.000 And so all the institutions of civil society are are seen as sites of political contestation.

00:20:22.000 Um I think that's a big part of it.

00:20:23.000 Look, uh another this is changing now, but for a while when civil rights law was exclusively really used by the left as kind of a uh uh tool of social engineering, uh that was another thing, right?

00:20:39.000 There were there were legal pressures that I think helped uh accelerate and reinforce the woke takeover.

00:20:46.000 I don't want to reduce it all to that.

00:20:48.000 But like, you know, hostile environment complaints, right, do create incentives for corporations to censor speech and to do these sorts of trainings that morph into DEI.

00:20:57.000 Um I do think that is changing now because there are new civil rights enforcers in town and they have adopted a very different interpretation of the civil rights laws.

00:21:05.000 And so we're seeing now that uh civil rights law does not necessarily have to lead to wokeness, but I think that until the right sort of seized the levers of the civil rights state and started using it very aggressively, it just the civil rights bureaucracies were all populated by progressives, and that was a big that was a big kind of bureaucratic mechanism that pushed it.

00:21:28.000 Yeah, I mean, and part of the the civil rights regime is built on disparate impact, which is can you comment on that?

00:21:36.000 Yes, I think that's a big problem.

00:21:37.000 So for for many years, you know, although quotas were officially outlawed, there was this concept called disparate impact, which was that if you do a kind of race-blind test, employment test, but it has a disparate impact, you know, more uh whites than blacks pass the test,

00:21:54.000 then the test, unless you can prove like beyond a reasonable doubt, basically, that it is sort of in essential, that it is de like you know, inextricably tied to the job qualifications, and that this is really the only way to assess people, unless you can prove that, which is very high bar, the test was basically unlawful, right?

00:22:14.000 And it was considered discriminatory.

00:22:15.000 And now that is starting to be changed because uh President Trump has issued an executive order uh revoking one of his most important liability.

00:22:23.000 Yeah, disp going after disparate impact.

00:22:25.000 It's possible that some of the Supreme Court cases that kind of solidified this concept will get overturned Depending on what the litigation is.

00:22:32.000 But yeah, I mean, for many years there was this this phrase called goals and timetables where the government would say, well, you know, you don't have to you don't have to adopt quotas.

00:22:40.000 You just have to have goals and a timetable for reaching them.

00:22:44.000 And, you know, if you don't, that could be evidence of unlawful discrimination.

00:22:48.000 We're not saying it is evidence, it just could be.

00:22:50.000 And so of course, in in practice, that means that you kind of do have to have at least some approximate racial balance which leads to some of these discriminatory policies.

00:23:00.000 Continuing on on the whole medical theme, you have another story that was published in May of last year, uh, which is a failed medical school, how racial preferences supposedly outlawed in California have persisted at UCLA.

00:23:13.000 Yes.

00:23:13.000 So this is kind of connecting.

00:23:14.000 This is a what happened at UCLA?

00:23:17.000 Aaron Powell Yeah.

00:23:18.000 So at UCLA, um to my knowledge, this is maybe the first time this has ever happened that multiple members of the admissions committee basically came to me and and told me anonymously about the affirmative action they were doing and provided various emails and even some internal data that kind of backed up that there was um a lot of racial preferences going on.

00:23:44.000 And the reason they came forward was that they just thought it was intrinsically unjust, but B, they were really worried because they were seeing medical students uh start to really fail basic tests of medical competence and show up to their clinical rotations not knowing anything.

00:24:02.000 Um not knowing anything.

00:24:04.000 That's what one of them told me almost verbatim.

00:24:06.000 And I and I would note that none of the whistleblowers I would say struck me as particularly conservative.

00:24:13.000 I mean, I don't think anyone involved in this story.

00:24:17.000 Or wearing MAGA hats or something.

00:24:18.000 No, no one who was worried about this was wearing a MAGA hat.

00:24:21.000 I'm sure they all voted for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris or almost all of them did, right?

00:24:25.000 But they were worried because they just saw kids showing up and they couldn't, you know, name basic arteries and stuff, and they were not the catholic.

00:24:34.000 Right, right.

00:24:35.000 And they were failing um these things called the the shelf exams, which you take after each clinical rotation.

00:24:40.000 There were some cohorts where like uh 50% of the kids would fail.

00:24:46.000 And that that had never happened before.

00:24:48.000 It would there was a huge spike in the failure rate on these exams.

00:24:52.000 Um and this all happened after a kind of new dean of admissions came in and really pushed uh the DEI very aggressively.

00:25:00.000 Um your reporting says up to half of UCLA medical students now fail basic tests of medical competition.

00:25:08.000 Yeah, it's not half of all UCLA medical students.

00:25:12.000 What it is is basically they're in each clinical rotation, you it's a little hard to explain, but basically, basically there were certain classes at UCLA, certain rotations where like half of the kids in that small cohort were failing.

00:25:27.000 And you know, and then you also see that the overall failure rate goes from like very low to something closer to like 20 or 25 percent.

00:25:36.000 So there's a change over time.

00:25:37.000 Um, you know, look, probably the average graduate of UCLA medical school is still very good, but there are far more people who are not up to snuff than there used to be, and that's really what those statistics are captured.

00:25:49.000 Well, what are the implications of this?

00:25:51.000 I mean, well, you know, the obvious one is well, you know, someone makes it through and then they take out your appendix and your kidney inside of your appendix.

00:25:59.000 Yeah, you know, that's the kind of nightmare.

00:26:01.000 That's the nightmare scenario.

00:26:02.000 I mean, I mean, the other thing that may happen is that some of the folks graduated, they they may be good enough to be very basic, kind of primary care doctors and and competent at sort of more basic fields of medicine, but they're not going to go into high-level research.

00:26:17.000 And the problem with that is part of how medicine advances and and what these schools are supposed to do is to be engines of medical innovation.

00:26:25.000 Um so if all of the schools um do this sort of heavy affirmative action, and fewer and fewer of the graduates are really uh qualified to do the kind of cutting-edge research that pushes the frontiers of medicine forward.

00:26:43.000 You know, you may not see it's not necessarily that the surgeons are gonna like kill you.

00:26:48.000 I mean, that might happen, but I think that's that's probably not really the main concern, at least in the immediate term.

00:26:53.000 The the deeper concern is that you just see this kind of slow and hard to quantify, but nonetheless very real decline in kind of the quality of academics.

00:27:04.000 I mean, but we all see it.

00:27:05.000 I mean, I've had friends in Cedar Sinai Hospital, and they might have graduates from the UCLA medical school.

00:27:10.000 Is the UCLA medical school good?

00:27:12.000 Is it considered to be competitive?

00:27:13.000 Aaron Powell It's considered very competitive, yes.

00:27:16.000 And so I've seen at Cedar Sinai.

00:27:18.000 Some of these nurses are kind of like space cadets at times. 0.98

00:27:21.000 I don't want to insult them.

00:27:22.000 You have to wonder, I mean, and I everybody knows this that the quality of hospital care has gone down the last 20 years.

00:27:28.000 It's just anecdotally.

00:27:30.000 Yeah, and and the other thing I would say to you that that there's another dynamic here, which is maybe only say 20% of the kids are really struggling and the rest are fine.

00:27:39.000 But because you don't want to flunk those bottom 20%, you have to make the classes easier for everyone to avoid the bottom 20% flunking out.

00:27:47.000 So the top kids don't get the same quality of education.

00:27:50.000 So they might still be good, but they won't be as good, right?

00:27:54.000 And so there's this kind of progressive mediocritization of the medical profession driven by this sort of bottom 20% dragging kids down.

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00:28:58.000 So I I got I have to read this.

00:29:00.000 This is this is one of my favorite paragraphs.

00:29:01.000 I just saw this.

00:29:02.000 Led by Lucero, who you introduced earlier in the piece, uh she also serves, or I think it's she as the I think it's she, right?

00:29:11.000 As the vice chair of the equity, diversity, and inclusion of UCLA's anesthesiology department.

00:29:18.000 Yes.

00:29:18.000 So let me just understand this.

00:29:19.000 So the practice of administering general anesthesia, which is incredibly important.

00:29:25.000 People die way too much.

00:29:27.000 And thankfully we're one we're one of the leaders in the world.

00:29:30.000 What is the it says the admissions committee routinely gives black and Latino applicants a pass for subparametrics for people who served on it said while whites and Asians need perfect scores to be considered.

00:29:40.000 What is the like steel man that argument for me?

00:29:43.000 Why does an anesthesiology department need a DEI office?

00:29:50.000 I mean I mean at some point, I mean you're super smart.

00:29:52.000 You went to Yale, you're part of the debate club.

00:29:55.000 What is the argument for that?

00:29:57.000 We're trying to figure, you know, we need your body weight, we need to figure out how long, you know, the mixture of these very, very powerful chemicals.

00:30:06.000 The the argument you would hear is that somehow the white anesthesiologist will murder the black people.

00:30:14.000 And so if we don't correct the implicit biases, we won't really get the most qualified anesthesiologist.

00:30:19.000 Yeah, look, like it's it's it's silly.

00:30:21.000 So it's silly.

00:30:22.000 It's just it just collapses.

00:30:23.000 But this you you pointed on something.

00:30:26.000 So implicit bias, that would be their argument, probably.

00:30:30.000 Or their argument would be like, hey, a white anesthesiologist, they don't know the struggle of a black woman they're about to put under.

00:30:35.000 And so, you know, she needs someone that knows the struggle of being a black woman.

00:30:39.000 I'm sorry, you're administering drugs to go under surgery.

00:30:41.000 Don't you want the best?

00:30:42.000 Yeah.

00:30:43.000 I mean, but definitionally, don't you want you can die under general anesthesia.

00:30:47.000 Yeah.

00:30:47.000 It's very high stakes.

00:30:49.000 Yes, yes.

00:30:49.000 I mean, and and this has always been the the kind of canonical argument against racial preferences, right?

00:30:54.000 Well, do you you know, do you care if your surgeon is black or something?

00:30:56.000 But it's like in front of us, it's not a good idea.

00:30:58.000 I know, I know.

00:30:59.000 And you know, there's another detail in the story where she apparently, uh according to at least one or two people said that so when they do residency admissions, which is a different thing, that's for when they're actually admitting basically like trainee doctors who've already graduated medical school, they have a this sort of rank list of who they want to admit, and she advocated for bumping a white candidate down um many slots because she thought, well, we already have you know enough white people.

00:31:25.000 And uh I don't I think that ultimately was was reversed, but still, I mean she was explicitly saying we should, you know, move the rank of different candidates around based on race.

00:31:35.000 To do and these And the residents would be actually performing anesthesiology.

00:31:39.000 So Yeah, I just again of all the places have DEI office.

00:31:42.000 If you want to have the DEI office at the Department of Labor, I'm gonna fight that, but you can maybe make like a stronger anesthesiology.

00:31:50.000 Yeah, not where I would put it.

00:31:52.000 Not not where I would put a D that that's that's the if anything other than making sure the patient wakes up is the mission statement of an anesthesiology department, uh no good.

00:32:02.000 After a Native American applicant was rejected in 2021, Lucero chewed out the committee and made members sit through a two hour lecture on native history.

00:32:11.000 What is this all about?

00:32:12.000 So there was a struggle session administered by this DEI anesthesiologies are Yeah, I guess so.

00:32:18.000 Um I think I think that struggle session was was if I remember right, her sister.

00:32:23.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:32:24.000 I'm sorry.

00:32:24.000 Uh Native American history d delivered by her own sister.

00:32:27.000 Yeah.

00:32:28.000 So I Yeah, and again, you know, it's also th this is the other thing, uh it's just a time suck, too.

00:32:35.000 Like there's a reasonable.

00:32:36.000 I mean you know, I we haven't even gotten to what they did to their curriculum at UCLA, which was to make all the kids take a required structural racism and health equity class.

00:32:46.000 And in that class, I mean, they literally learned uh one of the readings said that fat phobia was medicine status quo and said that the concept of obesity enacts violence on fat people.

00:33:00.000 Basically said doctors just a treadmill is violence. 1.00

00:33:02.000 Right, shouldn't treat obesity as a health condition.

00:33:04.000 And this was in a required class for UCLA medical students.

00:33:07.000 And so one of the put some of the pushback I got on the piece about racial preferences was you don't understand.

00:33:13.000 They made these changes to their curriculum and they had a little less time in class, so maybe that's why the the performance went down, but it's not about the racial preferences.

00:33:21.000 Okay.

00:33:22.000 It's about the curriculum.

00:33:23.000 Well, what did they do to the curriculum?

00:33:25.000 They took time away from the hard sciences to teach them sort of progressive pseudoscience.

00:33:32.000 This is literally like mysticism.

00:33:34.000 That's not a good defense.

00:33:35.000 They shouldn't have done that either.

00:33:36.000 Again, I I we can make fun of it and we should.

00:33:39.000 God forbid Peeps, someone's gonna die because of this, and people die all the time under general anesthesia.

00:33:42.000 Again, anesthesiology one is someone's gone under anesthesiology a couple times, like it's no joke.

00:33:47.000 In the anesthesiology department where Lucero or Lucero helps rank applicants to the department's residency program, she's rebuffed calls to blind the race of candidates, telling colleagues in January 2020 email that despite California's ban on racial preferences, quote, we are not required to blind any information.

00:34:05.000 So this is a great case for Harmete Dylan to come swooping in from the US Office of Civil Rights, right?

00:34:12.000 And and I believe they're already looking into it uh yeah, I think it's HHS's Office of Civil Rights that's looking into it, but HHS has opened an investigation and there was also a lawsuit um from students for fair admissions, and that's the same group that uh did the Harvard lawsuit.

00:34:26.000 She said here's the Department of Act.

00:34:27.000 You're right, knocked down a white person and said, quote, uh white male me may be knocked down several spots because, quote, we have too many of his kind. 0.98

00:34:37.000 Right.

00:34:38.000 Not not uh not a comment.

00:34:41.000 Right.

00:34:41.000 Not a comment.

00:34:42.000 It's not Charlie Kurt.

00:34:43.000 No, yeah, not it's not a comment.

00:34:44.000 It's not a comment you could imagine being said about any other group.

00:34:47.000 Uh nor should it be said about any of the people.

00:34:50.000 Yeah, of course.

00:34:50.000 No, of course, of course, of course.

00:34:52.000 She told doctors who who is this person again?

00:34:54.000 I gotta reread this.

00:34:55.000 She's the the head of admissions at the school.

00:34:58.000 Delightful.

00:34:59.000 Yeah.

00:34:59.000 Is she still there?

00:35:00.000 Yeah, I believe so.

00:35:01.000 Yeah.

00:35:02.000 Yeah.

00:35:03.000 Oh, nice.

00:35:04.000 Uh she told doctors who voiced concern that they had no right to be at an opinion because they were not BIPOC.

00:35:10.000 For people listening on radio or podcasting, that is not a Star Wars character.

00:35:15.000 What what is BIPOC?

00:35:16.000 Uh it stands for black, indigenous, and other people of color.

00:35:19.000 People of color.

00:35:20.000 Yeah.

00:35:21.000 So you you let's say you're a 45-year-old, you know, for 45 year old, you've been there 45 years as a doctor, award-winning saved lives.

00:35:28.000 You don't have an opinion because you might be a white man.

00:35:31.000 That's according to the admissions.

00:35:34.000 The admissions directly.

00:35:35.000 Yeah.

00:35:35.000 That's what she's saying.

00:35:37.000 Yeah, the honestly, this is like real life horrifying if people have to get medical care in the UCLA system.

00:35:44.000 The focus on racial diversity has coincided with dramatic shift in racial and ethnic composition of medical school, where the number of Asian matriculants fell by almost a third by 2019-2022, according to public available data.

00:35:55.000 No other elite medical school in California saw a similar decline.

00:35:58.000 Yeah, I think that's true.

00:35:59.000 There maybe there was one that, you know, saw something kind of close.

00:36:02.000 But I think I think most of the I think it was really when I double checked the data, it was quite noticeable how much UCLA could be.

00:36:08.000 But so like I mean look I I I need to just voice this.

00:36:11.000 If we're also afraid of being called a racist, is it conceivable that just a again this says a third to half of the medical school, this is a professor that told you is incredibly unqualified.

00:36:20.000 Is it possible that just a super unqualified doctor is slipping through the cracks that's like a black woman and eventually she's gonna have to make life saving decisions. 1.00

00:36:28.000 Yeah.

00:36:28.000 But that's where we're heading like they we're all afraid to say anything because she might report you to the race Yeah I mean look and the way and I would say too you know the the the way also to avoid having a if there's a you know qualified black female doctor the way to avoid people questioning her qualifications and the way to avoid sort of placing her under this constant cloud of suspicion is to stop doing racial preferences that sort of rationalize the suspicion.

00:36:57.000 Right?

00:36:57.000 Like I I mean you know I feel bad for anyone who gets into UCLA who who really is very good totally agree.

00:37:04.000 You know gets everyone's always looking at them, right?

00:37:07.000 I mean if you're a super qualified black applicant now people are going to wonder you know and that that's not right. 1.00

00:37:12.000 So now going to the other coast you my friend have been like a ninja towards Harvard and I love it.

00:37:22.000 So let's start with let's start with this one because this one's a little bit more uh it's is older I think.

00:37:28.000 Yeah I am right.

00:37:29.000 Harvard president Claudine Gay hit with six new charges of plagiarism.

00:37:34.000 So you were one of the ones that to that took down Claudine Gay in addition to Elista Fonick and her wonderful performance.

00:37:42.000 How does a Harvard University president p plagiarize herself to the top yeah I mean so look what she did was clearly covered by Harvard's plagiarism policies which were written in a very exacting way.

00:38:00.000 I think I don't know you know what you were told growing up but I always had sort of the fear of God put into me when it came to plagiarism in high school and then and then in college they really would say just you know if it's more than a few words right that you know even if it's not verbatim but it's paraphrase that could be plagiarism and that's a very serious offense.

00:38:21.000 And so I would in college read over my papers and think, is it plagiarized?

00:38:27.000 You know, I have to make sure I'm changing enough of the language I have to be sure I'm putting it in my own words um everything cited.

00:38:32.000 And look you know uh of all the plagiarism scandals there have been hers was not the worst but she was probably in the it w not the worst in terms of the severity of the plagiarism but it was plagiarism.

00:38:46.000 It did violate Harvard's policies and she was the president of Harvard University, right?

00:38:52.000 And so subject I think presumably to kind of the highest possible standard for academic integrity.

00:38:57.000 And she oversaw an institution that then you have internal documents reveal pervasive because she's gone now reversal perva reveal pervasive pattern of racial discrimination at Harvard Law Review.

00:39:08.000 Yes.

00:39:09.000 What's going on here?

00:39:10.000 Yeah so uh some of the discrimination comes is in the selection of editors for the law review but the lion's share of it is in the selection of articles.

00:39:20.000 Which is important.

00:39:20.000 Right.

00:39:21.000 I mean those are you know the Harvard law review is influential it matters who's published there.

00:39:25.000 The law review articles really do shape the state of the law to some extent right you know how how important legal academia is can be debated but to the extent it matters this is a pretty powerful journal right it matters what they publish.

00:39:39.000 And they are not selecting articles just based on merit or subject matter diversity, but explicitly based on both the author's race um and in many cases the race of the authors cited in the footnotes.

00:39:57.000 No.

00:39:57.000 Yes.

00:39:58.000 And that was in fact part of their rubric for evaluating to get published in the Harvard law review you have to have like half of your authors be basically basically there's this initial That's that's our well and so here's the thing right and this this often is the case with any kind of regime of racial preferences it doesn't just happen at one kind of stage of decision making it happens at every stage.

00:40:19.000 So there's an initial kind of screen out process um where they're told to consider author diversity and that process which is done by just a few editors weeds out like eighty percent of submissions.

00:40:32.000 And then everything that remains is subject to this additional screen where the you know some editor reads it and kind of writes a short memo, and there's a there's a template that they're supposed to fill out about the pros and cons of each article, and one of the things they are supposed to look at, or at least they were as of uh a year ago, was uh the racial diversity of the sources cited.

00:40:53.000 Racial, gender, all kinds of diversity.

00:40:56.000 What what if you have a really good citation from a white man?

00:40:59.000 You're not you're at your quota?

00:41:01.000 That I yeah, I mean they they literally and they they would literally say things like they would literally say things like I'm very you know, I'm disappointed that the piece didn't have much uh uh diversity in terms of its sources cited.

00:41:13.000 That was a real negative, and they would give it a uh poor recommendation based in part on that lack of diversity.

00:41:20.000 I mean, you can we published uh over 2300 pages of documents of these internal memos so people can judge for themselves and you can just see what they said.

00:41:29.000 And in some cases, it's kind of an afterthought or they don't really take it into account, but there are quite a few cases where the editors explicitly penalize pieces for the diversity of the citations.

00:41:40.000 How did you find out about this one?

00:41:43.000 Um, I I I got a tip from someone who shall remain nameless that it was going on at the Harvard Law Review and then started doing some digging and managed to get my hands on a lot of these documents.

00:41:54.000 Um I generally like to do in my reporting is to publish as many primary source documents as possible.

00:42:01.000 Because often, right, the immediate response is oh, you're making it up or you're exaggerating.

00:42:05.000 And I just look you can you can look at the entire tranch of documents, right?

00:42:10.000 You know, you you judge for yourself.

00:42:13.000 And so the hard Harvard Law Review is an independent nonprofit and legally distinct from the university.

00:42:21.000 It operates out of a Harvard building.

00:42:22.000 It's tended by Harvard janitors and employs only Harvard students and editors.

00:42:27.000 It's also advised by administrators, professors at Harvard Law School, including the dean and some student editors, are on federal financial aid.

00:42:35.000 And so someone is planning to sue over this, is that right?

00:42:39.000 Yes.

00:42:40.000 So uh Jonathan Mitchell, who's the former solicitor general of Texas.

00:42:44.000 Uh bad guy to tick off.

00:42:46.000 Yeah, he's he's planning to sue.

00:42:49.000 Um, but they're also now sub under three different federal investigations um by the Department of Education, the Department of Health and Human Services, and the Justice Department.

00:43:00.000 And obviously the the deal that the administration is trying to reach with Harvard could resolve those investigations.

00:43:07.000 We'll see.

00:43:08.000 I mean, I I don't know, but um until that deal happens, at least, you know, they are they are under multiple federal probes.

00:43:17.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:44:20.000 Yeah, so what is your instinct?

00:44:22.000 Do you think this is just the tip of the iceberg at some of these elite schools?

00:44:25.000 I mean, it's there's so much worse stuff that's going on that we don't know about.

00:44:29.000 Yeah, I generally think that's right.

00:44:31.000 Now, again, it some of them are probably trying to course correct a little bit just because they're so scared of Trump, but I think that um I don't think this is particularly aberrational.

00:44:44.000 How much of it is put in writing may vary depending on the institution, but again, like I said earlier, there's there's uh red states, state schools.

00:44:53.000 You can find tons of this stuff in kind of every in every part of university decision making.

00:44:59.000 And your Reporting's so good.

00:45:01.000 I mean, this you got a Slack message in here.

00:45:03.000 That's like that's the best because that's really a window.

00:45:05.000 Yeah.

00:45:06.000 This is so good.

00:45:07.000 Four out of five people raised in this message.

00:45:10.000 So message I'm guessing this is a uh communique or they're debating who to publish.

00:45:16.000 Got it.

00:45:17.000 Like a forum or something.

00:45:18.000 Four out of five people raised in this message are white men, which I find concerning.

00:45:23.000 One editor wrote in Slack.

00:45:25.000 This is an editor of the law review.

00:45:26.000 What before I go any further, what does it take to become an editor of the law review?

00:45:31.000 Well, a few people get on just through the strength of their grades or this kind of competition they do, right?

00:45:36.000 If they're really, really strong students' writers.

00:45:39.000 Most people are chosen through the or about half of them are chosen through this sort of holistic review process that takes into account their grades, this kind of writing competition, and then also their personal statement and kind of DEI factors.

00:45:54.000 Says, quote, having read the article pretty thoroughly, I think a huge missing piece was that of how race fits into policing and misconduct.

00:46:05.000 Right.

00:46:07.000 So keep going.

00:46:08.000 Yeah, well, this is another important point, which is that they don't just screen the articles based on the race of the author or even the race of the sources cited.

00:46:17.000 They also look at just does the article talk enough about race and gender.

00:46:22.000 So my favorite one actually is they this is in another article I wrote about this.

00:46:26.000 They nixed, I think an article that was a feminist analysis of antitrust law. 0.98

00:46:30.000 That sounds as woke as it can get, right?

00:46:32.000 Feminist analysis of antitrust law.

00:46:34.000 Why did they nix it?

00:46:35.000 Well, because it advanced a binaristic conception of gender and didn't talk enough about the experiences of trans and non-binary people.

00:46:42.000 And they put this in writing, right?

00:46:44.000 I mean, and it's just a few of the things that we're talking about.

00:46:45.000 Of antitrust law.

00:46:47.000 Yes.

00:46:47.000 And it's and it's like this is just a good idea.

00:46:50.000 This is a fall of civilization.

00:46:51.000 By the way, why should we even take seriously a feminist analysis of antitrust law? 1.00

00:46:55.000 How about this?

00:46:56.000 Analysis of antitrust law.

00:46:57.000 It doesn't matter if you're not going to be able to do that.

00:46:58.000 Right, right, right.

00:46:59.000 Well now.

00:47:00.000 Yeah, I mean, feminist analysis of antitrust law is almost going to be like the conservative position in ten years. 1.00

00:47:05.000 You know, I was gonna say.

00:47:07.000 It's well said.

00:47:08.000 Um in a separate exchange, an editor implied that a piece should be subject to expedited review because the author was a minority.

00:47:18.000 This person of color author, the editor wrote in Slack, adding that the scholar had already had a publication offer from Northwestern.

00:47:24.000 We should send for review tonight if we want to move on this.

00:47:26.000 So you get elevated and fast tracked if you're a person of color.

00:47:30.000 Yes.

00:47:30.000 And in fact, in some of these memos, they explicitly say recommend publishing scholars because they say by being published in the Harvard Law Review, they will advance their career.

00:47:41.000 So they basically say we should publish so and so because by doing so we will advance the career of a young scholar of color.

00:47:48.000 That's part of their calculus when deciding who to publish.

00:47:51.000 I mean, it's just it's remarkable.

00:47:54.000 And the law review right has also adopted several policies, while not racially discriminatory, seem designed to ens ensure uh editors to the party line.

00:48:03.000 One resolution passed in 2023 called for quote indigenous inclusive citation practices.

00:48:08.000 You mentioned this.

00:48:09.000 So just so we're clear.

00:48:11.000 I don't know what that means.

00:48:14.000 Indigenous inclusive citation practices, so we need like more Iroquois Indians or something. 0.89

00:48:20.000 I mean, yeah, it ha to be fair to them, I think it has something to do with how you cite cases involving tribal law or native tricks.

00:48:29.000 I mean, you know, there might be something legitimate there, but they obviously package it in the most woke language.

00:48:35.000 They've lost all credibility.

00:48:36.000 Yeah, I know I mean, you might be right.

00:48:38.000 I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the I don't I don't think they have the benefit of the doubt.

00:48:41.000 So I want to close uh with some time, and we have a little bit of time here because this you know, we're talking about the university, you're talking about your reporting, and President Trump is certainly clamping down on them.

00:48:51.000 And a lot of the activity happening on campuses that gets the headlines is this Jew hate stuff, the anti-Israel stuff.

00:48:58.000 And there's been a debate on the right of what should we do to respond to this campus activity.

00:49:04.000 And it's quite split, it's all over the map.

00:49:07.000 As you know, I resolutely reject all this Jew hate stuff, and I want to talk about that, you know.

00:49:11.000 But I think we'll actually more interestingly, let's make this a starting point.

00:49:15.000 There are some, not all, there are some in the Jewish community of whom I respect them greatly, but I fundamentally disagree. 1.00

00:49:20.000 They say now is the time for a Jewish civil rights, where we need kind of a new DEI style regime. 0.99

00:49:27.000 People like Jonathan Greenblatt, who I don't love, obviously or respect, He's kind of come out and said something similar.

00:49:32.000 What what what are you what are you thinking about this while balancing the disturbing rise of anti-Semitism with constitutionally protected speech?

00:49:40.000 Yeah, I don't think it makes any sense to try to add Jews to the list of to kind of bring Jews under DEI's protective umbrella.

00:49:49.000 I think that's going to backfire um for lots of reasons.

00:49:53.000 I mean, one is just DEI's the worldview is bad on the merits and should be rejected, right?

00:49:59.000 Um and we don't want to reinforce its premises.

00:50:02.000 Um you know, I I also think there frankly is a dynamic where especially for people on the right, it's very important, I think, to be consistent about this stuff.

00:50:12.000 And when you're not and you're hypocritical, people see the hypocrisy.

00:50:15.000 And while I don't think that the hypocrisy is like the main or it's it's not it's not why anti-Semitism is rising, but it's not helping.

00:50:25.000 Like it's not helping, I guess I would say.

00:50:27.000 No, it does not help.

00:50:28.000 You're right.

00:50:28.000 And uh you know, look, the other thing I would say too is just this is not this is not effective.

00:50:34.000 I mean, this is not how you get rid of the problem.

00:50:36.000 The way you get rid of the problem is by admitting students who actually want to study um and are not scholar activists who are going to go out and take over public spaces and violate laws, right, instead of just going to class.

00:50:52.000 I mean, it's really an admissions problem.

00:50:54.000 It is, and it's an Islamist problem. 0.99

00:50:56.000 So the some people are saying, though, that hey, we need to some people in the government have alluded to this, not President Trump, but we need to make anti-Semitism like illegal, basically.

00:51:08.000 And I'm I'm paraphrasing, but you've seen that kind of yeah.

00:51:11.000 So that's that's not well, first of all, you can't make ideologies illegal because of the First Amendment.

00:51:18.000 But let me here's here's the the other comeback to this.

00:51:22.000 So I just reported this today.

00:51:23.000 We're recording in late August, right?

00:51:25.000 So Columbia law school just did this diversity training.

00:51:29.000 Yeah, tell us all about it.

00:51:30.000 Right.

00:51:30.000 And the diversity training was organized around a single vignette about anti-Semitism.

00:51:36.000 It was something silly where like someone complains that it's hard to schedule events around the Jewish holidays in the fall.

00:51:42.000 And that's scene framed as an example of maybe maybe not even anti-Semitism, but insensitivity, and they spend all this time talking about it.

00:51:49.000 Okay.

00:51:50.000 Yeah.

00:51:50.000 Whatever it's kind of a silly anti-Semitism.

00:51:55.000 It's not, it's not, it's it's also if for one, it it's it's not the kind of thing that actually upset Jewish students, right?

00:52:00.000 What upset Jewish students at Columbia was calls to kill them, which actually happens.

00:52:05.000 Yeah, well, I I mean the you know, Zionists deserve to die, right? 1.00

00:52:10.000 That's that's that's what actually was at issue, not you know, someone being a little insensitive about whether you organize an event on Young Shapura Sakot, right?

00:52:18.000 That that's not the problem.

00:52:19.000 But then the other key thing to see is that this training was facilitated by a diversity consultant who has written all sorts of ridiculous things, including that she never she even wrote a blog post, I think, saying that she doesn't ask if someone if she sees a man attempting to go into the women's restroom, she won't stop him or ask questions because she doesn't want to inadvertently commit a microaggression.

00:52:44.000 I mean, that's who Columbia decided to do uh tap for this training.

00:52:49.000 During the training, she explicitly accuses President Trump of committing a microaggression when he complimented the president of Liberia on his English.

00:52:56.000 She says that the terms crazy uncle and grandfathering can be offensive and up-and-coming lawyers should not say them.

00:53:04.000 I mean, it has all the kind of hallmarks of a stupid crazy DEI training.

00:53:09.000 It's just that the vignette they chose was about anti-Semitism, right?

00:53:13.000 So not only is it not addressing the real anti-Semitism problem on Columbia's campus, it's also reinforcing the crazy DEI stuff that Trump I think has rightly been against. 0.96

00:53:26.000 So yeah, I I I think it is there there is a role for the federal government to play in fighting anti-Semitism, you know, content neutral civil rights laws that just say that you can't uh, you know, deny Jewish students access to the street.

00:53:40.000 Well yeah, when you're trying to block classes, of course that's illegal, you know.

00:53:44.000 Pull the visas. 0.98

00:53:45.000 I mean, the whole thing is just ridiculous.

00:53:47.000 Yeah, there's all sorts of levers you can use, but you know, demanding additional anti-Semitism training, I I just I think that's gonna backfire.

00:53:55.000 Look, also, like has anyone ever enjoyed sitting through one of these trainings?

00:53:59.000 And does anyone ever come out of it thinking, I'm I'm so glad I had to do that.

00:54:03.000 No, everyone hates the trainings.

00:54:05.000 So why add Jews to that, right? 1.00

00:54:08.000 Because then the Jews are more kind of proximate to the resentment. 0.77

00:54:13.000 Just it's a it's it's I think it is very short-sighted.

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00:55:19.000 What why are we seeing a rise in Jew hate in this country?

00:55:22.000 Um again, another thing we could talk for hours about.

00:55:26.000 I think some of it is just the result of us getting more and more distance away from the Holocaust and this kind of uh basically phylosemitic consensus we had breaking down.

00:55:36.000 I also think, and I'm not an expert on this, but my understanding is that among evangelicals, uh I I think there used to be this kind of pre-millenarian, like uh idi eschatology in which there's sort of this idea that like it was important to support Israel because the end of days was imminent.

00:55:53.000 I should say I'm I am Jewish, so I don't know.

00:55:55.000 No, you're you just said it better than the other.

00:55:57.000 Yeah, I'm not an expert on this stuff.

00:55:59.000 You use it very, pre-trib, pre-millennial theology is.

00:56:02.000 But that, and I think a lot of people.

00:56:04.000 The state of Israel is fundamental to that.

00:56:05.000 Right.

00:56:06.000 And I think a lot of people, including frankly, many progressive Jews sort of held their noses at that and sneered at it and thought, well, that's you know, stupid, weird theology.

00:56:14.000 But you know, one of the benefits of that theology was that it meant that the predominantly Christian American right of cover was very yes, very pro-Israel.

00:56:23.000 And it's a good example of, you know, Chesterton's fence, the idea that you don't always want to tear things down when you don't quite understand the function they're serving in society, right?

00:56:30.000 I think that you kind of got rid of that theology and it maybe opened the door to some not good stuff.

00:56:38.000 And honestly, look, uh yeah, I mean, obviously the the war in Gaza has has increased the salience of the issue.

00:56:45.000 Um obviously just the internet allows all sorts of radical ideologies to spread.

00:56:50.000 Um yeah, you know, I have to say I I struggle with this because I just fundamentally have always thought that like hardcore anti-Semitism is just so sort of irrational and not rooted in reality that I mean it rots the brain.

00:57:08.000 Yeah, trying to even you're trying to explain the thought process of uh you know, the the the logic of something that is fundamentally irrational.

00:57:18.000 I mean, it is not logical, so it can be hard in some ways to provide a rational explanation.

00:57:24.000 But I will I will just say I will also say though, I do not think the main cause, frankly, is college students at Columbia.

00:57:32.000 I think they are more a symptom and a reflection than a cause.

00:57:36.000 I think the cause is much deeper kind of demographic and yeah, the Columbia problem's actually really simple.

00:57:41.000 Yeah.

00:57:41.000 It's actually we've imported a bunch of Muslim students that hate Jews and have a many of which hate the West.

00:57:46.000 And then you couple that with a bunch of secular people that are looking for meaning and they look at everything through in a pressure, oppression, oppressed dynamics.

00:57:54.000 The assumption that Israelis are are white and the Palestinians are brown.

00:57:58.000 Correct.

00:57:58.000 Which if you actually go to the region and look at people, it's like totally not true.

00:58:01.000 I was there last year and saw a one of the darkest skins. 1.00

00:58:06.000 We'll go meet a misrahi or something. 1.00

00:58:07.000 No, I'm at a I but you see you see even like Ethiopian Jews who are have some of the darkest skin you can ever you've ever seen who are wearing the full orthodox garb in Jerusalem. 1.00

00:58:17.000 Like it's it's it's a it's an amazing country, right?

00:58:19.000 But just the whole racial imaginary that we project onto that region, it's totally wrong.

00:58:23.000 Yeah.

00:58:24.000 So what are what would you say are one or two of the biggest lies about what's happening right now?

00:58:29.000 Again, we're taping this So we don't know things can change, but let's just say more broadly with Israel that you wish could be corrected that are just falsehoods that are spread that you kind of pound your table and you're like, I can't believe people believe this.

00:58:42.000 I mean the rate the race thing is is a big one in terms of the left, right?

00:58:47.000 That's that's a big issue on the left where they they project this they they try to basically project American racial categories onto a region that just totally rejects them and resists them.

00:58:56.000 Um I think on the right, you know, it on the left, people will just take they'll take something crazy from Israel out of context, like something really bad that one person said and and and say, oh,

00:59:12.000 you know, clearly Israel wants to do X, Y, Z. It's like, well, you know, if some obscure government minister says something nuts, right, like we don't, it's not fair to regardless of which party's in power, you know, it's not fair to conflate, right, you know, one crazy person in, you know, an obscure government position with the an entire political party or with the entire country, certainly, right?

00:59:35.000 Um I think that's that's a problem.

00:59:37.000 Um The other thing I would say too, though, is uh so much and I think this is more the fault of of the Americans who talk about it than it is Israelis, but there they're you know, they're to go back to the anti-Semitism training. 0.95

00:59:49.000 There's this this impulse to say, well, anti-Semitism, it's another ism, frame Jews as victims and kind of add Jews to the list of victim categories.

01:00:01.000 I just don't think that that's compelling.

01:00:05.000 No.

01:00:06.000 Right?

01:00:06.000 And I think it's self-defeating.

01:00:08.000 Yeah, and I think and I think Israel is actually like a very cool country.

01:00:11.000 And if they talk more about the coolness and the tech and the military, right, you know, one reason I think you do see some of the anti-Semitism percolating on the right in in some cases is that you know, if you think about how to reach like young men who are turning right.

01:00:26.000 Yeah.

01:00:27.000 Send to the television for a weekend.

01:00:28.000 Yeah, well, but no, yeah.

01:00:30.000 It probably probably would would make them more pro-Israel.

01:00:33.000 But also, right, you know, how not to reach them, you don't want to do this kind of hectoring school marm, like you have to be, you're you're a bigot for X, Y, or Z, just because people have been sort of trained understandably from all the DEI to react with suspicion to any kind of accusation of bigotry.

01:00:49.000 Again, there is real anti-Semitism, it's a problem, but you know, when you lecture people, I just don't think that's a good idea.

01:00:54.000 Yeah, and I think some and this is where I get some pushback.

01:00:57.000 I was just debating the other day privately with a very nice woman who you would know I'll tell you off camera.

01:01:02.000 And she was insistent that you can't if you are anti-Israel, you're anti-Semitic.

01:01:07.000 And I said, Well, what do you mean by anti-Israel?

01:01:09.000 And so, and she was getting to the place where like you must support the Netanyahu government, otherwise you're anti-Semitic.

01:01:15.000 I'm like, that's you're gonna lose people.

01:01:17.000 I mean, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of people.

01:01:19.000 There's a lot of conservative American Jews who think the Netanyahu government mishandled the war and would prefer like Natali Bennett, who's actually to Netanyahu's right.

01:01:29.000 So I mean that's the other thing.

01:01:30.000 People don't it's a very complicated situation, right?

01:01:33.000 It is I think there needs to be a little bit of allowance there.

01:01:35.000 Yeah.

01:01:36.000 But like and here's another thing I would say, I don't know how I I have no idea how they would do this, but one thing I've been doing since since April is actually taking Krav Maga lessons.

01:01:46.000 Rav Maga is the martial art of the Israeli defense forces.

01:01:49.000 It's cool.

01:01:50.000 I think every young Jew should learn it.

01:01:52.000 Yeah, but but also just like young people, it's it's it's good exercise.

01:01:56.000 You feel like a badass after you do one of the moves correctly.

01:02:00.000 You're basically learning to be like a real-life action hero who can actually defend yourself and your loved ones from an aggressor.

01:02:07.000 And like I would just think again, if you're trying to reach, you know, young men who are tired of being scolded and and tired of gold rhetoric.

01:02:17.000 Right.

01:02:18.000 Don't just just talking too much about anti-Semitism.

01:02:21.000 Again, I'm not saying don't talk about it at all, but like if you want to make people just think Israel's cool, like talk about Krav Maga.

01:02:29.000 Talk about like the badass stuff that comes out of Israel.

01:02:32.000 Like, I feel like a lot of young guys, if they see think Israel and they think, oh, cool fighting system that teaches us how to, you know, defend ourselves against criminals, it's like, okay, that's that's the kind of message that like a y, you know, a young like 18, 20 year old guy is gonna like, right?

01:02:47.000 Yes.

01:02:47.000 And the and the more they understand Islam, the better Israel looks too.

01:02:50.000 They have no idea what it Israel is up against, right?

01:02:52.000 Which is these Islamic barbarian monsters. 1.00

01:02:55.000 Yeah.

01:02:56.000 Which which which everyone no one wants to say out loud.

01:02:59.000 Uh but so final thought on that though.

01:03:02.000 How would you say is a domestic prescription to quell and defeat this rise in Jew hate, which rots the brain and destroys the soul? 0.94

01:03:10.000 Yeah.

01:03:11.000 Um, I I generally go back to if you enforce the laws evenly and just hold everyone to the same standards.

01:03:24.000 I think you do you end up solving a lot of the problem.

01:03:27.000 You get rid of a lot of the protests that violated the content neutral rules.

01:03:31.000 You show that look, just everyone has to treat each other equally.

01:03:36.000 You model that kind of ethic of equality.

01:03:38.000 Um, I think just talking about again, dividing the world into a press or an oppressed, that's never going to end well for the Jews.

01:03:46.000 Um, so getting rid of DEI is good.

01:03:49.000 Uh that's very fundamental.

01:03:51.000 That's very important.

01:03:52.000 Um Yeah, I mean, that's basically what I would say.

01:03:58.000 Look, and the other thing I would say though, too, is just uh unfortunately, you know, anti-Semitism's always been with us.

01:04:09.000 It's not a rational force, and we no longer enjoy the kind of golden era where you could just take this very pro-Israel and and phylosemitic consensus for granted.

01:04:21.000 It's a new terrain.

01:04:22.000 Yeah, and you know, like probably not the worst thing for Jews to learn some self-defense.

01:04:26.000 I I unfortunately.

01:04:28.000 But how can people follow you, support you, look at your work?

01:04:33.000 Uh I'm on Twitter at Aaron Sebarium.

01:04:36.000 I write for the Washington Free Beacon.

01:04:38.000 Um important work.

01:04:41.000 Talk a little bit about that.

01:04:42.000 Oh, yeah, sure.

01:04:42.000 Um, so we we we're one of the few outlets on the right that's really dedicated almost exclusively to investigative reporting.

01:04:48.000 Yeah, I know.

01:04:49.000 That's what makes you guys different.

01:04:50.000 Um yeah, and and I think for for young people interested, uh It's the most important type of report.

01:04:57.000 Yes, I would say it there's also a temptation on the right in particular to want to go into opinion journalism, which we've sort of overindexed on.

01:05:04.000 Um guilty.

01:05:06.000 Yeah, no, look, I mean, I was I was that way as a college student.

01:05:09.000 I was like, ah, I want to, you know, be a New York Times columnist and and spout off my views.

01:05:14.000 The reality is that that it's not impossible to be influential as an opinion columnist, but it's very, very difficult.

01:05:21.000 I agree.

01:05:21.000 And it's much easier, you'll get much more bang for your buck if you go into investing.

01:05:25.000 So many unreported stories in this country.

01:05:27.000 And and to be honest, it does not, it's not all that hard.

01:05:31.000 It's not all that hard to do.

01:05:32.000 It takes a little work, but like you just you interview people, you get people to give you documents, and you just you report it accurately.

01:05:38.000 You don't have to editorialize, you let the facts speak for themselves.

01:05:42.000 Aaron, thank you for your time.

01:05:43.000 Incredible work.

01:05:44.000 If I was giving up Peel at surprises, you would have got one, especially for the monoclonal antibody story.

01:05:48.000 Thank you.

01:05:49.000 Uh Aaron Sabarian, uh, keep up the great work.

01:05:51.000 You're welcome back anytime.

01:05:52.000 God bless you.

01:05:53.000 Thank you.

01:05:53.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:05:55.000 Email us as always, freedom at Charliekirk.com.

01:05:57.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 05, 2025

The Reporter Who Brings Down Harvard Presidents ft. Aaron Sibarium

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