The Charlie Kirk Show - The Smug Student Who Thinks Truth Isn't Real ft. George Janko

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody enjoy this episode become a member members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk.com email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com and become a member to support this program buckle up everybody here we go Charlie what you've done is incredible here maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk Charlie Kirk's running the White House folks I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:25.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:26.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:43.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:12.000 Yes, hello.

00:01:13.000 Hi.

00:01:15.000 Okay, so can I give you a list of things I generally disagree with?

00:01:18.000 You could choose which one.

00:01:19.000 Alright.

00:01:21.000 I'm an atheist, so I disagree with your religious claims.

00:01:24.000 I'll disagree with the two-gender thing. 0.86

00:01:26.000 Well, how it's characterized.

00:01:29.000 Boom.

00:01:29.000 They're confused.

00:01:30.000 They're confused.

00:01:31.000 And then lastly, maybe...

00:01:33.000 I think Kamala might be a DEI higher under your definition.

00:01:37.000 I don't think that's inherently a bad thing.

00:01:40.000 Okay.

00:01:40.000 Is there anything you agree with us on?

00:01:44.000 I think I'm mostly a fiscal conservative.

00:01:48.000 I think like you, I don't like illegal immigration or high rates of illegal immigration.

00:01:54.000 That doesn't mean that I will be voting Trump or I think Trump is the best man to solve those problems, but those aren't really what I want to discuss anyway.

00:02:01.000 So I just wanted to align some things you asked me what I agree with on.

00:02:04.000 Okay, so which one of those things do you want to discuss?

00:02:07.000 Let's do religion.

00:02:09.000 That can involve my friend George here.

00:02:11.000 Okay.

00:02:13.000 So, do you believe in absolute truth?

00:02:19.000 I'm not sure you can provide me just positive evidence that there is absolute truth.

00:02:22.000 So the answer would be, I'm not sure.

00:02:24.000 Are you absolutely not sure?

00:02:26.000 I'm not sure if I'm absolutely not sure.

00:02:28.000 See, this works if you say no, but it doesn't work if you bottom out in the I'm not, I don't know question.

00:02:32.000 Right, no, but saying you're not sure, you are not even sure if you're not sure.

00:02:36.000 So at some point, you just always have to make a truth claim, yeah?

00:02:39.000 No, you can just be not sure about everything all the way down.

00:02:41.000 I don't see why you can't.

00:02:42.000 And my answer would be, I think truth is instrumentalist in theory.

00:02:45.000 I think it's a thing we choose pragmatically.

00:02:47.000 For the purposes of discussion, I think you can say, yeah, I think truth exists pragmatically.

00:02:51.000 Regardless of that, I don't see how you get to God.

00:02:53.000 Are you alive?

00:02:54.000 Huh?

00:02:55.000 Are you alive?

00:02:56.000 I think I'm alive, yeah.

00:02:57.000 I think you're alive.

00:02:58.000 Yeah.

00:03:00.000 Is the sun shining?

00:03:02.000 I think it's shining, yeah.

00:03:04.000 From my frame of reference, it is shining.

00:03:06.000 Notice how none of this...

00:03:09.000 Notice how you've gotten no steps closer to proving God.

00:03:13.000 No, I'm asking questions, man.

00:03:15.000 Are you sure we did it?

00:03:17.000 Yeah, I'm sure.

00:03:18.000 Are you sure we didn't get close to God?

00:03:21.000 I'm sure in the pragmatic instrumentalist sense.

00:03:23.000 How sure are you that we did it?

00:03:24.000 In the pragmatic instrumentalist sense?

00:03:26.000 Absolutely sure.

00:03:26.000 I see truth as a utility.

00:03:28.000 So there is a truth that's absolute?

00:03:29.000 No, it's instrumentally true.

00:03:32.000 But you just said it was absolute.

00:03:32.000 No, absolutely sure in the instrumentalist sense of the word truth.

00:03:36.000 This is a philosophical tradition that dates back hundreds of years, instrumentalism.

00:03:39.000 Yeah, which of course we don't subscribe to.

00:03:42.000 Obviously, yeah.

00:03:42.000 So, do you believe that murder is objectively wrong?

00:03:46.000 Epistemologically objective or ontologically objective?

00:03:48.000 Morally.

00:03:50.000 See, you didn't answer the question, but...

00:03:53.000 Both, both epistemologically and ontologically, but for the purpose of discussion...

00:03:56.000 Okay, so by what you mean, no, I don't think it's objective.

00:04:00.000 Was Hitler a bad person objectively?

00:04:03.000 No, if you mean by...

00:04:05.000 By the way, by the way...

00:04:06.000 Dude, dude, dude.

00:04:07.000 Tread slowly.

00:04:08.000 Tread slowly.

00:04:09.000 No, but he's being honest.

00:04:11.000 At its core, atheists cannot say that Hitler was bad.

00:04:14.000 Can I make the claim now?

00:04:16.000 Notice who here is relying on feelings and not facts.

00:04:19.000 Your argument is I feel that Hitler was objective. 1.00

00:04:21.000 No, no, no.

00:04:22.000 I know.

00:04:22.000 No, no.

00:04:23.000 You feel that way.

00:04:23.000 Can you provide me evidence of how you know?

00:04:25.000 Can you provide me evidence that morality is objective?

00:04:27.000 No, of course I can.

00:04:29.000 Because...

00:04:30.000 Well, first of all, morality is both reason and revelation, and it's built within to us that murder is wrong.

00:04:35.000 Wait, okay, where's your evidence of that?

00:04:37.000 Wait, wait, I'm so sorry.

00:04:38.000 That's a claim, not evidence.

00:04:39.000 That's a claim.

00:04:40.000 Okay, we could spend multiple hours, but in the Western tradition...

00:04:44.000 So notice how you're saying by tradition...

00:04:46.000 By the standards.

00:04:48.000 These are all claims of non-truth value.

00:04:50.000 Hold on.

00:04:50.000 Yes, they are.

00:04:51.000 We believe that truth was revealed to us.

00:04:53.000 We believe.

00:04:54.000 Claim.

00:04:54.000 By God.

00:04:55.000 Hold on.

00:04:55.000 But let me...

00:04:56.000 We can get there.

00:04:57.000 You can keep on interrupting us.

00:04:58.000 Okay, keep going. 1.00

00:04:59.000 But let me prove to you how silly your viewpoint is. 1.00

00:05:02.000 Okay. 1.00

00:05:02.000 And how self-evidently wrong. 1.00

00:05:04.000 Okay. 0.99

00:05:04.000 Is it objectively wrong to rape kids? 0.99

00:05:07.000 When you say objective, what I mean by objective, once again, once again... 0.99

00:05:12.000 Can I ask you something?

00:05:14.000 No, no, no.

00:05:15.000 Notice how you still haven't given me dispositive evidence on morality's objective.

00:05:18.000 You're merely saying, my answer is, I feel that way.

00:05:21.000 Sure, I feel that way.

00:05:22.000 That's all I can know.

00:05:24.000 It's objectively wrong to the laws of nature.

00:05:26.000 What law of nature?

00:05:27.000 The self-evident nature of existence.

00:05:30.000 Where is your proof that it's self-evident?

00:05:31.000 Show me the logical proof that it's self-evident.

00:05:32.000 Okay, it's in your reason that God gave you in the consciousness and the soul that you have.

00:05:37.000 Prove that God gave it to me.

00:05:38.000 Okay, but again, your existence is proof of that.

00:05:42.000 Again, we can get back down to the first principles of this.

00:05:45.000 We can, but you don't want to because you know it doesn't look good.

00:05:48.000 No, it looks actually really good.

00:05:49.000 No, because you can't give evidence for it.

00:05:51.000 Built within, again, interrupting does not make you right.

00:05:55.000 But you keep repeating your point.

00:05:56.000 I get your point.

00:05:56.000 No, I don't.

00:05:57.000 So let me ask you a question in closing.

00:05:59.000 Since you can't objectively say that Hitler was bad or that child rape is wrong, so...

00:06:05.000 How did the universe come into existence?

00:06:07.000 I don't know.

00:06:09.000 Okay, but science says that it was a big bang or a beginning point, right?

00:06:12.000 Okay.

00:06:12.000 So using logic, which you believe in...

00:06:14.000 Is this the Kalam cosmological argument?

00:06:16.000 Well, hold on.

00:06:16.000 Again, you keep interrupting.

00:06:17.000 Using logic, if space, time, and matter had a starting point, then logically, shouldn't something outside of space, time, and matter have started those things?

00:06:27.000 How do you know that cause is personal?

00:06:29.000 How do you know that cause is worth praying to?

00:06:30.000 How do you know anything?

00:06:31.000 That's not the question.

00:06:32.000 Wait, wait, wait.

00:06:32.000 Okay, sure.

00:06:33.000 There is a cause.

00:06:34.000 Oh, that cause is God because it's outside of space, time, and matter.

00:06:36.000 Wait, wait, wait.

00:06:36.000 No, no, no.

00:06:37.000 By definition.

00:06:38.000 You believe in different things about God.

00:06:39.000 You think that God is personal.

00:06:40.000 That's not what we're debating.

00:06:42.000 No, we're arguing about God.

00:06:43.000 We're arguing about Christian God.

00:06:45.000 Yeah, religion.

00:06:46.000 Hold on, no, no.

00:06:46.000 We're not debating it.

00:06:47.000 We're debating whether or not there's a God or not.

00:06:49.000 No, the Christian God. 0.71

00:06:49.000 I said religion. 0.71

00:06:50.000 You're a religious person.

00:06:51.000 You're a Christian in nature.

00:06:52.000 You follow religious tradition.

00:06:54.000 Calm down.

00:06:54.000 You said you're an atheist.

00:06:55.000 Wait, no.

00:06:55.000 God, historically, Aquinas even defines it this way, is a personal God.

00:06:59.000 You still haven't gotten to me to prove that it's personal.

00:07:00.000 I'm happy to get to that.

00:07:02.000 Okay, then get to it.

00:07:03.000 Man, I encourage you to act a little bit more humble in your disposition, man.

00:07:10.000 Okay, I'll try.

00:07:11.000 Yeah, I'm going to get to the next question because, look, here's what I find with atheists. 1.00

00:07:16.000 They don't want to worship or acknowledge God because many atheists think they are God, and you embody that really well.

00:07:22.000 I didn't know you were a mind reader, Charlie.

00:07:24.000 This is news to me.

00:07:24.000 It's not a mind reader.

00:07:25.000 I can tell by your behavior.

00:07:27.000 I will say this.

00:07:27.000 I hope that you give your life to Jesus Christ.

00:07:29.000 I hope you do.

00:07:31.000 I hope you can find evidence.

00:07:33.000 I hope you can find evidence.

00:07:34.000 You know what's interesting?

00:07:34.000 There is evidence.

00:07:35.000 There is evidence that Jesus...

00:07:36.000 Hold on.

00:07:37.000 Last thing.

00:07:37.000 Do you believe Jesus Christ was a real historical figure?

00:07:40.000 Yes.

00:07:40.000 Do you believe that the Gospels are historically accurate and we can prove them with archaeological evidence?

00:07:45.000 Some parts are.

00:07:46.000 Some parts are metaphors.

00:07:49.000 Some parts are allegories.

00:07:50.000 Some parts are literal.

00:07:51.000 It depends.

00:07:51.000 Some parts are attempts at history.

00:07:53.000 It depends which book or Gospel.

00:07:55.000 Using rational analysis, why would the disciples lie about the resurrection of Christ?

00:08:01.000 Okay, we can talk about this.

00:08:02.000 People, they can be mistakenly wrong about it.

00:08:04.000 So they would be mistakenly wrong up to the point where they get martyred, burned, and crucified?

00:08:09.000 The whole point of being mistakenly wrong about something is you believe it's true.

00:08:11.000 All the way up until the point of death?

00:08:13.000 The whole point of being mistakenly wrong about something is you believe it's true.

00:08:15.000 I just want to make sure I understand your position.

00:08:17.000 Your position is that the twelve disciples who knew Christ best saw him die, and then they all believed a mistaken conspiracy for the rest of their life.

00:08:25.000 All of them together as a conspiracy.

00:08:28.000 Yes.

00:08:29.000 There is no firsthand account from the 500. The Gospels are all written by these people.

00:08:34.000 People have died for crazy claims in the past that we know aren't true.

00:08:37.000 These are all facts about history.

00:08:38.000 That's not correct.

00:08:39.000 Okay, one of the Gospels was written by one of his closest associates, Matthew, the tax collector.

00:08:43.000 Luke was a fact fighter that was hired by...

00:08:46.000 No, I didn't say the Gospels weren't written by them.

00:08:47.000 I said there's no evidence from the 500 that he appeared to.

00:08:50.000 There's no firsthand accounts.

00:08:51.000 Again, that's not correct.

00:08:52.000 Thank you for your time.

00:08:52.000 We'll get to the next question.

00:08:53.000 Okay, you cannot answer.

00:08:54.000 We will pray for you.

00:08:55.000 Thank you.

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00:09:59.000 Yep.

00:10:00.000 I'm interested in talking about something similar as well to what he was talking about.

00:10:04.000 I'll just frame it in this way from what you had to say.

00:10:08.000 Just telling him that you hope he serves his life towards Jesus Christ.

00:10:13.000 Genuine question.

00:10:15.000 Do you believe serving corporate interests to further disillude the population and draw a lot of hatred between us with your kind of egoism, is that serving Jesus?

00:10:26.000 And that's not a tech.

00:10:27.000 I genuinely am really concerned about the antagonism of this entire movement.

00:10:32.000 I just cannot imagine any world where Jesus would be interested in any word Trump has to say.

00:10:39.000 Trump himself evidently didn't really read the Bible despite claiming to love it and everything.

00:10:47.000 His words of just trying to separate the entire country, people, to make profit off a question that you like to ask, like, are you pro-choice or pro-life?

00:10:55.000 But you know yourself that it's really just a question we shouldn't have to ask.

00:11:00.000 What is your question?

00:11:01.000 The question is, how can you sit here making all this money and still say this is in the name of Jesus Christ?

00:11:07.000 Because a lot of people genuinely love Jesus Christ and don't try to profit off people fighting in the name of Christ.

00:11:13.000 That's mainly my question.

00:11:15.000 I'm just really concerned for the people here because you say, how are those 12 people brainwashed?

00:11:20.000 It's happening to 300 million people in America right now.

00:11:23.000 So it's not that hard to believe.

00:11:26.000 Do you think the people wearing MAGA hats are brainwashed right now?

00:11:30.000 No, dude, I mean, I'm not really interested if they're brainwashed or not.

00:11:34.000 I'm interested in making sure that they understand the truth, which is that there are no enemies except the people telling you that there are enemies and making money off of that.

00:11:44.000 Hold on a second.

00:11:45.000 There are enemies.

00:11:46.000 People telling you there are enemies.

00:11:47.000 Hold on a second.

00:11:47.000 I think the cartel's an enemy of the American people and they sect-trapped the kids in this country.

00:11:51.000 You'd agree?

00:11:51.000 Yes.

00:11:52.000 Okay, so that's an enemy that Donald Trump has pinpointed.

00:11:54.000 I think that Venezuelan gangs that take over American apartment complexes are enemies. 0.99

00:11:58.000 You would agree?

00:11:59.000 Hold on.

00:11:59.000 No, no, no.

00:12:00.000 You had your part.

00:12:00.000 I'll have my part.

00:12:01.000 No, this is pretty moving, man.

00:12:02.000 But I think you're more moved by Jesus Christ.

00:12:04.000 And I'm making you a little uncomfortable because you know when the paycheck hits and that's what really matters for you.

00:12:09.000 Jesus is not too keen with you, sir.

00:12:11.000 Well, hold on.

00:12:12.000 Just be honest with yourself, Charlie.

00:12:14.000 I will be honest.

00:12:15.000 I'm a sinner and so are you.

00:12:16.000 And I've given my life to Christ.

00:12:17.000 Have you?

00:12:19.000 Christ didn't want you to give your life to him.

00:12:21.000 He said the kingdom of heaven is within you.

00:12:23.000 And he didn't believe in any organized religion, in any scripture.

00:12:27.000 He spoke against all of that, man.

00:12:29.000 He was in a scene from Nazareth.

00:12:31.000 Yeah, you are making stuff up.

00:12:34.000 I just said he was in a scene from Nazareth, which was a Jewish sect of Hebrew peoples.

00:12:39.000 No, it wasn't.

00:12:40.000 They actually put themselves out in the desert.

00:12:43.000 You've come out awfully combative.

00:12:45.000 I'm sorry.

00:12:46.000 I'm just concerned about the people who want to love Christ.

00:12:49.000 Also, it could be kind of nerve-wracking because I could tell you're a little nervous.

00:12:51.000 There's a lot of people around here that disagree.

00:12:52.000 Yeah, I mean, you're shaking, so I could tell you're really nervous.

00:12:54.000 I'm just passionate, sir.

00:12:55.000 Yeah, no, and that's great.

00:12:57.000 I'm not worried about making money.

00:12:59.000 I want real conversations.

00:13:00.000 I know this is a job for you, but hold on.

00:13:02.000 How much am I being paid to be here?

00:13:04.000 I'm not sure.

00:13:05.000 I don't know.

00:13:05.000 Does Trump pay you?

00:13:07.000 No, actually.

00:13:08.000 So you don't know anything about me, but you think I'm here just for money.

00:13:11.000 How much did I charge for those hats today?

00:13:14.000 Yeah, that's...

00:13:15.000 Yeah, so, but again, it is easy to criticize me, but you don't know anything about me.

00:13:19.000 I feel like George knows what I'm saying, man.

00:13:21.000 I've heard you talk about these things, man.

00:13:22.000 Yeah, so let's talk.

00:13:23.000 Let's talk.

00:13:23.000 I think what happens is, and again, I have a heart for you because you're surrounded by people that have an opposite opinion.

00:13:29.000 So I'm here to let you know I understand where you're coming from.

00:13:32.000 I don't think we have opposite opinions though.

00:13:35.000 Yeah, okay.

00:13:35.000 Let me get to it.

00:13:36.000 My question is, let's get to what you want to know.

00:13:40.000 If he's not getting paid, if I'm not getting paid, what is on your heart that you're like, you should not be getting money for this?

00:13:45.000 Could you elaborate one area that we're making money that we should not be making money in?

00:13:52.000 I don't know, man.

00:13:53.000 Having kids hate each other, bro.

00:13:55.000 That's literally it.

00:13:56.000 I'm just saying, if you really want to look at what's really happening, we're just making a lot of clips for young people that are too lazy to actually look into politics and philosophy so they can just get a nice laugh off of it.

00:14:09.000 What do you do for a living?

00:14:10.000 Landscaping.

00:14:11.000 Okay, and that's a beautiful job, right?

00:14:12.000 That gift that you got so you're able to clean up this yard, it's your choice if you want to represent it saying, this is from my God.

00:14:21.000 Just because we go to work and we get paid, that doesn't mean God's upset with us.

00:14:24.000 Now, what we do for the kingdom...

00:14:30.000 fighting for our children.

00:14:31.000 We are fighting for God.

00:14:33.000 So if we make a profit by talking about our profits, that's fine.

00:14:38.000 But if I'm abusing the power of the kingdom to make a profit and I truly don't give about what's going on, that's what's wrong.

00:14:45.000 God looks at the positioning of your heart.

00:14:48.000 Charlie doesn't have sleepless nights because he's trying to make people like you able to speak into that mic Even though you guys don't agree, he's waking up every day so you have the ability to do this.

00:14:59.000 I agree, but what if you just...

00:15:01.000 I know, man.

00:15:02.000 You have to do what you have to do to get as many people here.

00:15:05.000 It's just the level of antagonism is not something anything Jesus Christ would like at all.

00:15:09.000 Hold on a second, but didn't Jesus say that I came to divide the world, not unite the world?

00:15:12.000 Didn't Jesus come to say I brought a sword and the sword of truth to turn father against son and mother against daughter?

00:15:18.000 Didn't Jesus say, those who do not know my name will not see me in the eternal life and know my Father?

00:15:23.000 And they will say, I do not know who you are and you will be in a sea of eternal damnation.

00:15:27.000 Christ did not come to unite the world.

00:15:29.000 He actually came to divide it based on truth.

00:15:31.000 So this kind of revisionist history that Christ is a John Lennon song and that it's all just going to be peace and harmony is not correct.

00:15:37.000 We must love all people.

00:15:39.000 But show me one example where I have been antagonistic against someone.

00:15:42.000 Who comes up to a mic searching for truth?

00:15:44.000 I actually started with the first question.

00:15:47.000 I said, do you agree with us on anything?

00:15:48.000 How would you like to do this?

00:15:50.000 I'm not here to pick a fight.

00:15:51.000 I'm here to try to teach, learn, and listen, right?

00:15:53.000 Yes, I agree with you 100%.

00:15:54.000 And there's nothing antagonistic from you I can point out other than literally just this.

00:15:59.000 You're being brainwashed.

00:16:00.000 Prove me wrong?

00:16:01.000 I mean, I could prove you wrong.

00:16:04.000 This is not antagonistic at all, actually.

00:16:08.000 I'm more concerned about Donald Trump and you pushing him and his antagonism.

00:16:12.000 I think that's hard to debate.

00:16:13.000 I don't think you know very much about any of these topics.

00:16:16.000 How has Trump been antagonistic?

00:16:18.000 The guy that's been shot, indicted, impeached, facing 700 years in federal prison, maybe they're the ones being antagonistic to him. 0.98

00:16:24.000 That deification of Trump is crazy, man. 0.94

00:16:27.000 You know it's dangerous to every American. 0.82

00:16:30.000 I don't have a deification of Trump.

00:16:31.000 You know what I do elevate?

00:16:32.000 I elevate the suffering of the American people and how Donald Trump will improve their lives.

00:16:37.000 Donald Trump is a vessel to improve the lives of everyone around you.

00:16:41.000 So I'm going to just...

00:16:42.000 We're going to get to the next question.

00:16:43.000 Thank you for being here.

00:16:43.000 I would like to say one thing to you, though.

00:16:44.000 Just because I've been in your situation and your stance.

00:16:48.000 This is what I want to say to you.

00:16:49.000 When I was in this position, it's because I didn't want to ask questions.

00:16:53.000 I wanted to tell them what I think.

00:16:55.000 And when we could get to a place where you're actually curious to know where our hearts lie instead of accuse us for things you don't know about, you can't grow.

00:17:02.000 I want you to grow.

00:17:03.000 Trust me, I know we're on opposite sides of things, but I love you, bro.

00:17:06.000 I'm telling you we're not, bro.

00:17:06.000 I love you, too.

00:17:07.000 Thank you, bro.

00:17:08.000 And that's why I'm trying to let everyone here know that, like...

00:17:11.000 There are no enemies except the people that tell you there are.

00:17:13.000 I know people make money off of ours.

00:17:15.000 I disagree.

00:17:16.000 I think the drug cartels are enemies.

00:17:17.000 I think the American left are enemies of us.

00:17:19.000 Yeah, fair.

00:17:20.000 I do.

00:17:20.000 I think people, for example, I think someone that performs abortions is an enemy of humanity.

00:17:26.000 Okay.

00:17:27.000 No, but I'm just going to be honest.

00:17:28.000 I agree, sir.

00:17:29.000 So anyway, thank you so much.

00:17:30.000 We'll get to the next question.

00:17:31.000 Thank you.

00:17:31.000 Hey, guys.

00:17:32.000 Big fan.

00:17:33.000 Yeah.

00:17:34.000 Hey.

00:17:34.000 So, in one of your tours, you said that legal immigration is very high in the country.

00:17:40.000 What is the basis of that opinion?

00:17:42.000 And do you want to crack down on the merit-based legal immigration?

00:17:46.000 Also, a follow-up question.

00:17:48.000 The 1776 revolution was primarily fought over premise of taxation without representation.

00:17:55.000 So, legal immigrants are the groups today that are being taxed without any representation.

00:18:01.000 So do you think that they shouldn't be taxed until they get some representation?

00:18:06.000 Okay, so we have 1.6 million green cards we give out a year.

00:18:11.000 So you can look it up in the Center for Immigration Studies.

00:18:15.000 Yes, we should curtail legal immigration, but that's not the bigger priority. 0.92

00:18:18.000 The bigger priority is illegal immigration.

00:18:20.000 And your final question is no.

00:18:22.000 If you are here on a visa, you are receiving benefits from the government, such as protection, national security, defense.

00:18:28.000 So you should have to pay taxes.

00:18:32.000 But still, don't you think that legal immigration, especially merit-based, makes the country stronger?

00:18:38.000 It can.

00:18:39.000 It also can make it weaker.

00:18:40.000 How?

00:18:41.000 Well, for example, we should have an obligation to employ American college graduates before foreign college graduates. 0.97

00:18:49.000 Legal immigration can enhance the country.

00:18:51.000 But, for example, everybody in this audience who is American-born will be receiving a country that is substantially worse than that of their parents.

00:18:58.000 Yes.

00:18:58.000 And so you should prioritize the American worker before the foreigner.

00:19:02.000 And yes, legal immigrants can enhance one done properly. 1.00

00:19:05.000 I agree with that.

00:19:06.000 But don't you think that innovation brought by really high merit people creates more jobs?

00:19:12.000 Like, for example, in AI, like, we should bring all the experts from around the world.

00:19:20.000 It's probably a good idea.

00:19:21.000 That's a sliver of what our current immigration status is.

00:19:24.000 The current immigration program is not merit.

00:19:26.000 It's family connection.

00:19:28.000 It's diversity pool and country pool.

00:19:30.000 That's true.

00:19:30.000 I completely agree with that.

00:19:31.000 We agree.

00:19:33.000 Merit should always dictate our immigration policy.

00:19:35.000 Do you think we should abolish the 7% cap, country cap, in green card allocation?

00:19:41.000 Yes, I do.

00:19:42.000 We should not have a quota on what countries people come from.

00:19:47.000 Thank you.

00:19:47.000 Thank you very much.

00:19:48.000 God bless you.

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00:20:53.000 Alright, who's up?

00:20:54.000 If you disagree, you guys are welcome to work your way to the front.

00:20:57.000 How's it going, Charlie?

00:20:58.000 It is so hot.

00:20:59.000 Oh my goodness.

00:21:00.000 Big fan of both of you guys.

00:21:01.000 My name is David Navar.

00:21:02.000 I'm a Hispanic American.

00:21:05.000 I just wanted to come and just discuss things.

00:21:07.000 I'm a born-again believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

00:21:10.000 I preach the gospel.

00:21:11.000 But I wanted to just have a discussion because it comes from my background, actually.

00:21:16.000 So I wanted to ask both of you, actually, one question.

00:21:19.000 Do you ever think there's a circumstance that it can be morally right to break the U.S. federal law?

00:21:23.000 Yes, and biblically it supports that belief, yeah.

00:21:26.000 Okay, cool.

00:21:27.000 I was honestly expecting something different.

00:21:28.000 But I just wanted to share kind of my family background.

00:21:32.000 My mom is from El Salvador.

00:21:34.000 I'm half Salvadorian, half Mexican.

00:21:36.000 I don't know if you know, but in the 80s there was a civil war.

00:21:40.000 She grew up seeing dead body parts outside of her house.

00:21:43.000 The gangs...

00:21:44.000 Killed her grandfather, chopped him into pieces.

00:21:47.000 They were after her father next.

00:21:49.000 They had to flee to another city in El Salvador.

00:21:52.000 They were left with what it seemed like no choice but to leave the country, to not die.

00:21:56.000 They seek asylum from the USA, did not get anything, and they essentially just bled.

00:22:02.000 And to their brother, who was in Los Angeles, they came illegally, received papers, eventually got forgiven.

00:22:09.000 I'm a citizen.

00:22:10.000 But I just wanted to ask if you thought that was morally right.

00:22:15.000 Which part?

00:22:16.000 Repeat, it was a long one.

00:22:17.000 Because your biggest...

00:22:19.000 Which part was right?

00:22:20.000 That her coming illegally. 0.97

00:22:22.000 Oh, no.

00:22:22.000 No, it's not morally right.

00:22:23.000 Okay.

00:22:24.000 And why do you believe that?

00:22:25.000 Well, first of all, it's not right to break into another country.

00:22:28.000 Okay.

00:22:29.000 Number one.

00:22:29.000 Number two...

00:22:31.000 The circumstance of which she left, she could have declared asylum, right?

00:22:35.000 Yeah, they tried.

00:22:37.000 And?

00:22:38.000 They didn't get anything.

00:22:39.000 They were denied on asylum?

00:22:41.000 They did not receive anything.

00:22:42.000 They were on the verge of death.

00:22:43.000 Yeah, look, under that circumstance, it is not morally right to break into another country.

00:22:48.000 Okay, yeah, I wanted to read a quick verse.

00:22:50.000 Proverbs chapter 24, verse 11. Rescue those being led away to death.

00:22:55.000 Hold back those staggering towards slaughter.

00:22:57.000 If you say, but we knew nothing about this, does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?

00:23:03.000 What I wanted to say, I think this goes above legalism and more towards morality and God's will.

00:23:08.000 I believe it was the Lord's will for my life to be in here in the United States.

00:23:12.000 Even if I came in what you say morally wrong, I think...

00:23:15.000 There are so many circumstances where people are on the verge of life and death.

00:23:20.000 So let me ask you a question.

00:23:22.000 Do you think it's biblical if you're hungry to be able to steal money from a grocery store?

00:23:25.000 No.

00:23:26.000 Well, then how is it any different to break into somebody's country?

00:23:28.000 What about Moses getting the Israelites out of Pharaoh? 0.88

00:23:32.000 That was illegally.

00:23:34.000 Breaking federal law.

00:23:35.000 Hold on.

00:23:35.000 First of all, he was leaving a country to the desert.

00:23:38.000 He wasn't immigrating to a new country, right?

00:23:40.000 Right.

00:23:41.000 So that's number one.

00:23:43.000 Number two, again, it's very clear.

00:23:46.000 You're not allowed to take other people's property.

00:23:48.000 That's one of the Ten Commandments.

00:23:50.000 Thou shall not steal.

00:23:51.000 So breaking into a country uninvited is stealing.

00:23:54.000 So do you think that the U.S. coming and stealing the land from the Native Americans, do you think that was morally right? 0.99

00:23:59.000 No, I mean we did a lot of things wrong and a lot of it's overblown.

00:24:02.000 However, that doesn't answer the question.

00:24:04.000 So especially when it comes to the movement of people, the Bible is very clear on borders, sovereignty, and the distillation of culture.

00:24:13.000 And that specific Proverbs verse is not towards government policy but towards the individual.

00:24:17.000 We should care about people.

00:24:18.000 And I could apply that verse right now to us turning a blind eye to, I'm sure you'd agree with, abortion happening in America. 0.54

00:24:23.000 Right.

00:24:24.000 And a blind eye to the child mutilation happening in America.

00:24:26.000 Okay.

00:24:28.000 When I was growing up, I tried to help somebody.

00:24:30.000 I'm going to make this quick.

00:24:30.000 I tried to help somebody when I didn't have enough money.

00:24:32.000 And I went to bed hungry that night.

00:24:35.000 And I was too embarrassed to ask my dad for money because he was already helping me.

00:24:38.000 And my dad taught me a lesson that day that changed my life. 0.96

00:24:41.000 He goes, only a fool helps another man when he himself can't help himself. 0.74

00:24:46.000 So prepare your home right. 0.99

00:24:49.000 Get the establishment right.

00:24:51.000 Get the foundation right.

00:24:52.000 Then we go extend our hand to our neighbors.

00:24:54.000 But if our home is divided, if we are hurting, we need to put our resources back to the soil, get it back to where it needs to be.

00:25:01.000 Then we look at our neighbors and we divide and we help.

00:25:04.000 Okay.

00:25:05.000 So you're saying that this country is not in a good state to help?

00:25:08.000 Right now, I think they pushed God out, and we can obviously see that as well. 0.65

00:25:11.000 We're in debt.

00:25:12.000 We're depressed.

00:25:13.000 We're sick. 0.59

00:25:13.000 We're diseased. 0.59

00:25:14.000 We can't own homes.

00:25:15.000 I mean, we're crime-ridden.

00:25:16.000 We are not in a place right now.

00:25:18.000 We should help our own people.

00:25:19.000 Yeah, I agree with the border policies that you are pushing, right?

00:25:22.000 It's better for the economy, better for citizens.

00:25:24.000 But what I'm more talking about is the people that need to flee their land, right? 1.00

00:25:28.000 I think you're over-exaggerating the need to flee the land.

00:25:31.000 If that's the case, then to be consistent, should all of Central America be allowed into America?

00:25:36.000 No.

00:25:37.000 Why not?

00:25:38.000 In the 1980s, there was that situation where my mom was in. 0.98

00:25:41.000 But hold on.

00:25:42.000 This is another important point.

00:25:43.000 Why did she not flee to Mexico?

00:25:45.000 But isn't that legally doing the wrong thing, too?

00:25:48.000 Hold on.

00:25:48.000 But this is important, though, is that because Mexico doesn't put up with it.

00:25:52.000 Right.

00:25:53.000 But we do.

00:25:54.000 That's the point.

00:25:55.000 So you're saying that she should have stayed and died?

00:25:56.000 I'm not saying what she should have done, all right?

00:25:59.000 But I am saying, though, that she did something not in the eyes of God.

00:26:03.000 And I'm sure she's repented for that.

00:26:05.000 And so she broke the law and broke the customs and then lied about it actively, right?

00:26:09.000 So...

00:26:10.000 That's not good.

00:26:11.000 And it's not a good example for us to raise kids and be like, yeah, I broke into somebody else's home and took their stuff and lied about it and deceived it.

00:26:17.000 That's pretty immoral.

00:26:18.000 Yeah, that's a good point.

00:26:19.000 Second question, if Donald Trump turned away from the Word of God and the other candidate started pushing more to the Word of God, would you change your vote?

00:26:29.000 Given the current circumstances, there's no quite danger of that right now.

00:26:32.000 Right, but I'm just asking you in general if that were to happen.

00:26:33.000 I mean, look, there's limitations to it.

00:26:35.000 I wish Donald Trump was more pro-life right now, but I super appreciate his moral clarity on the border, child sex trafficking, trans issues.

00:26:41.000 But yes, if a candidate, regardless of who they are, no longer have a worldview that fits my own, I will not support them.

00:26:46.000 Sam, if a toddler comes running for president, but he's pushing the gospel, I'm voting for the toddler.

00:26:52.000 I don't vote for Trump because I like everything that Trump brings to the table, but I know that he represents my God.

00:26:59.000 So when he's speaking, he's not ashamed to speak about Jesus.

00:27:02.000 King David was a good king, but he still sinned and he still fell short, but he had his eyes on God.

00:27:07.000 And as long as you're morally correct with Christ, then you have my vote.

00:27:10.000 I'm not trying to make America great again.

00:27:12.000 I'm trying to make America fear God again.

00:27:15.000 Yeah, that's good.

00:27:16.000 All right, guys.

00:27:17.000 I appreciate both of you.

00:27:17.000 Have a great day.

00:27:18.000 Have a great one, bro.

00:27:18.000 Thank you.

00:27:21.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:28:24.000 This is more of a point of inquiry.

00:28:27.000 With the right in regards to Israel and Palestine, we have seen a lot of disagreements.

00:28:31.000 You know, Candace Owens is now more pro-Palestine. 0.99

00:28:34.000 Meanwhile, you have Ben Shapiro and they say more of the mainstream right has solidified around Israel.

00:28:38.000 Which position are you on personally?

00:28:40.000 Well, I'm pro-America, first and foremost, but I love Israel, and I think our relationship with Israel has a really important role geopolitically and also morally.

00:28:48.000 And there's a series of questions I could ask.

00:28:50.000 I don't know what side of it you're on, but yeah.

00:28:52.000 You know, there's a very good quote from Hamlet, a plague on both – not Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, a plague on both your houses.

00:29:00.000 I will not side with Islamic fundamentalists. 1.00

00:29:02.000 On the other hand, I think Israel – they were justified when the hostages were taken, but I think they have destabilized the region to an extent. 0.99

00:29:08.000 They're still hostages, right?

00:29:10.000 I'm as grim as it is.

00:29:13.000 I mean, the Israelis, whatever else you can say about it, they have spent a year doing nothing but looking for these people. 0.64

00:29:19.000 And Hamas, I'm not necessarily sure Hamas is great at leaving people alive.

00:29:23.000 My grandpa is from Ireland.

00:29:26.000 They had a terrorist group as well.

00:29:28.000 And if you know anything about them, people who were captured tend to not come back.

00:29:34.000 Yeah.

00:29:35.000 Yeah, so, I mean, that's fine.

00:29:36.000 I answered the question.

00:29:37.000 And then the fundamental question is, do you believe the Jewish people have a right to their ancestral homeland?

00:29:42.000 I think they do.

00:29:44.000 So we agree.

00:29:44.000 I agree on that.

00:29:45.000 But I would also say that with their current invasion of Lebanon, especially bombing peacekeepers who are...

00:29:52.000 I mean, the UN probably shouldn't be there to begin with, but probably still shouldn't be bombing their guys.

00:29:58.000 I think they're destabilized.

00:29:59.000 If you look at us, ever since the Carter administration, we've done nothing but try and build a system.

00:30:04.000 We forced the Egyptians and Israelis to agree to something. 1.00

00:30:06.000 We forced the Lebanese civil war to end.

00:30:09.000 And I do feel the Israelis are putting that system that we put in place that until recently did preserve their security in jeopardy. 0.93

00:30:15.000 And I think...

00:30:17.000 They should still have a right to exist, but I don't think we should be putting more pressure on them to be like, hey, we spent a lot of time building this man.

00:30:24.000 We can't let you destroy it.

00:30:26.000 It's a fair point.

00:30:27.000 I don't know if I agree with all of it, but thank you very much.

00:30:28.000 I appreciate it.

00:30:29.000 Thank you.

00:30:31.000 Alright, disagreements, guys, as you want to come up here?

00:30:33.000 Yeah, sure.

00:30:34.000 Question, where do I go out?

00:30:35.000 Good luck.

00:30:37.000 If you guys would allow the people, make room for the people with the hands up, we would appreciate it.

00:30:41.000 Yes, thank you.

00:30:42.000 Alright, hello, my name is Ranger.

00:30:43.000 It's nice to meet you.

00:30:44.000 Alright, hello, my name is Ranger.

00:30:46.000 It's nice to meet you both.

00:30:47.000 So I have two questions for you.

00:30:49.000 The first of which is, you were talking about you want an America that fears God.

00:30:54.000 But it's believed to be back to the fundamentals of when this country was started and the Constitution was made, that there's supposed to be a separation of church and state, but it seems you don't believe that anymore.

00:31:04.000 Well, where does it say that in the U.S. Constitution?

00:31:07.000 It was written in the Constitution.

00:31:09.000 I don't exactly remember what part, but it has been written.

00:31:11.000 It's not, actually.

00:31:12.000 And that's okay.

00:31:13.000 I'm going to help you out here.

00:31:14.000 There's the Free Expression Clause and the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

00:31:20.000 What you're thinking of is that Congress shall make no law prohibiting or promoting the exercise of religion or the free exercise thereof.

00:31:29.000 Now, mind you, the separation of church and state is not in the U.S. Constitution.

00:31:33.000 And that's okay.

00:31:34.000 Not a lot of people know this.

00:31:35.000 It is from a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1803 to the Danbury Baptist Convention in Massachusetts saying to the church, the government will not come after you.

00:31:45.000 There was no question at the time of the founding that God played a central role in all of our government.

00:31:51.000 In fact, God is there in four times mentioned in the Declaration of Independence.

00:31:55.000 And never should we – and you would agree there should never be separation of morality and state.

00:32:00.000 Thank you.

00:32:01.000 But then I have another question, not the second question, but do you believe there should be a separation between those two things, church and state?

00:32:08.000 Well, it depends on, well, let's play it out.

00:32:10.000 Do we currently have that?

00:32:12.000 During COVID, the government was able to shut down the church.

00:32:15.000 Should that be allowed?

00:32:16.000 I mean, I don't believe so, no.

00:32:18.000 Okay, so the point is that we don't even have separation of church and state because the state was able to tell the church whether or not that you could practice on Easter.

00:32:25.000 Now, that's the standard that they currently have.

00:32:28.000 Do I believe in a separation of morality and state?

00:32:30.000 Of course not.

00:32:31.000 Now, the morality that built the West is the Ten Commandments.

00:32:34.000 The Ten Commandments is the best rules of life for any society to flourish and to be able to succeed.

00:32:39.000 You shall have no other gods before me.

00:32:40.000 You shall have no other idols.

00:32:42.000 You shall not take the Lord's name in vain.

00:32:44.000 Honor your mother and fathers who may live long in the land of which you are in.

00:32:47.000 Honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

00:32:49.000 Do not murder.

00:32:49.000 Do not steal.

00:32:50.000 Do not bear false witness.

00:32:52.000 Do not covet.

00:32:52.000 Do not commit adultery.

00:32:53.000 It's out of order, but that's still the Ten Commandments.

00:32:55.000 That those rules for life is what the founders believed, so much so that they're in the halls of Congress and the Supreme Court.

00:33:01.000 That we believe is transcendently transmitted to us, and that when we do not submit to those Ten Commandments, our country starts to fall apart.

00:33:09.000 But if you think about it, most wars, when religion gets entangled into a culture, and even government, most wars have started because of that.

00:33:17.000 So that's a talking point that has no basis, and that's okay because a professor told you that, so let's go to the truth.

00:33:22.000 And I'm going to ask you a couple questions.

00:33:24.000 What religion did Mao Zedong believe in the great murderer of China who killed 50 million people?

00:33:31.000 He was an atheist.

00:33:32.000 What religion did Joseph Stalin believe in who killed over 30 million people of the Soviet Union?

00:33:38.000 He was an atheist.

00:33:40.000 So that's 80 million people murdered in two countries in just the 20th century that did not believe in any religion.

00:33:46.000 So it's an easy talking point to say that religion causes war, but in reality, it seems as if actually...

00:33:53.000 Totalitarian dictatorships rooted in atheism and a lack of the divine is what caused more human suffering in the 20th century than not.

00:34:00.000 Adolf Hitler was not a Christian. 0.79

00:34:01.000 Adolf Hitler was at war with God and thought he was God and a total maniac.

00:34:06.000 So there is no basis for what you're saying.

00:34:08.000 You might be thinking about like the Crusades or something like 600 or 700 years ago or the Inquisition.

00:34:14.000 If that's the case, I think you need a better argument because religion actually keeps people sane, free, and moral, not towards war and conflict.

00:34:22.000 But isn't the war that's currently occurring in Israel and Palestine over religion and their land?

00:34:27.000 Yes and no.

00:34:28.000 It's more over territories and boundaries.

00:34:30.000 Of course they're religious wars, but if you look at the major wars over the last 30 or 40 years even, some are religious, some are not.

00:34:39.000 But Russia and Ukraine, are they fighting over religion?

00:34:41.000 No.

00:34:42.000 No.

00:34:42.000 Or Central African Republic Civil War, are they fighting over religion?

00:34:46.000 No.

00:34:46.000 So it's an easy talking point.

00:34:48.000 There really is no truth to it in the modern era.

00:34:50.000 Okay, so my other question for you.

00:34:52.000 So my other question is, I know you believe there is something wrong with being LGBTQ. Fundamentally because of... 1.00

00:34:59.000 I don't believe it.

00:35:00.000 I believe what my religion teaches me.

00:35:02.000 Okay.

00:35:04.000 So on that, why do you believe there's something wrong with being LGBTQ? Again, so I independently don't come to these beliefs.

00:35:11.000 I believe in what nature teaches us, but most importantly, what the scriptures teach us.

00:35:15.000 And there's a more important point.

00:35:18.000 I don't believe anybody is LGBTQ. You act a certain way. 1.00

00:35:22.000 There's only two distinctions.

00:35:23.000 They're saved and unsaved.

00:35:25.000 That's why it says in the scriptures in Leviticus, a man shall not lie with another man like he does a woman. 0.94

00:35:29.000 It's the behavior that is prohibited by God.

00:35:32.000 But there's been so many studies, and it's been proven that you don't become this way.

00:35:36.000 You don't just magically one day wake up and say, oh, I'm gay now.

00:35:39.000 That's not my contention.

00:35:41.000 You just are born this way.

00:35:42.000 But you make a decision whether or not to act on it, right?

00:35:44.000 So for example, people have impulses to cheat on their wife, commit adultery.

00:35:49.000 Is that morally wrong?

00:35:51.000 Yes.

00:35:52.000 So adultery is morally wrong, but why is homosexuality not morally wrong? 1.00

00:35:57.000 Because that's just an impulse.

00:35:59.000 That is something you are born with.

00:36:00.000 Every man will tell you there's an impulse to cheat on your girlfriend or to potentially your wife.

00:36:04.000 No, that's not an impulse.

00:36:05.000 That is a decision you consciously make.

00:36:07.000 Hold on a second.

00:36:08.000 No, it's not.

00:36:08.000 It's an impulse built into male sexual behavior.

00:36:12.000 Yes, it is.

00:36:13.000 Okay, I hate to break it to you.

00:36:15.000 Every man will tell you that you're wrong.

00:36:17.000 That male nature is to sleep with as many women as possible. 0.80

00:36:21.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:36:22.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:36:24.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 03, 2024

The Smug Student Who Thinks Truth Isn't Real ft. George Janko

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