The Charlie Kirk Show - The Sovietization of America with Mark Houck and James Lawrence

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, an entire episode on the FBI, the DOJ, and the Soviet country that we are now living in.

00:00:07.000 Mark Hauk joins us, and then James Lawrence talks about a pending trial that is really important.

00:00:14.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:17.000 Support our program at charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:00:21.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA today at tpusa.com.

00:00:25.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:28.000 As always, you can email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:31.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:32.000 Here we go.

00:00:33.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:35.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:37.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:40.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:44.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:45.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:46.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:48.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:54.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:03.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:06.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.

00:01:15.000 I was fired up a couple months ago when the Biden Department of Justice decided to deploy a SWAT team to go after a pro-life leader.

00:01:23.000 And that same DOJ told us they can't find the Supreme Court leaker.

00:01:27.000 Sorry, just not interested.

00:01:29.000 Almost nobody arrested, from my knowledge, on federal hate crime charges for the firebombing or the arson of pro-life clinics.

00:01:35.000 But what they focused their attention on was going after a pro-life dad who's a pro-life activist, storming the home and trying to do a show trial to say that if you support pro-life ideas, if you are a pro-life activist, we are going to show the world that we're going to make you suffer.

00:01:59.000 Well, Mark Hauk was raided by the FBI, indicted by the Department of Justice, and has now been acquitted.

00:02:04.000 A federal jury rejected the government's intimidation against pro-life people.

00:02:09.000 And Mark Hauk joins us now.

00:02:10.000 Mark, welcome to the program.

00:02:12.000 Greetings, Charlie.

00:02:13.000 Thanks for having me.

00:02:14.000 Mark, tell us your story first, the situation that's in question, and then walk us through the day the FBI arrived.

00:02:21.000 Sure.

00:02:22.000 So all glory be to God for this opportunity.

00:02:25.000 And it all began on October 13th, 2021, which was the day that my son and I, my 12-year-old son at the time, were coming into the city of Philadelphia for our normal prayer vigil, our weekly prayer vigil.

00:02:42.000 We've been doing it for myself 20 years and my son for the last two years with me.

00:02:46.000 And on this particular day, the fall afternoon, after about 45 minutes of praying, there was an altercation between myself and a Planned Parenthood escort.

00:02:59.000 And that ensued to be, I guess, more problems with this man because that initial altercation where he was interfering with my First Amendment rights to give literature out to abortion-minded men and women who come and go from the facility led him to further harass me and my son.

00:03:22.000 He placed himself on that day literally about a foot or two away from my son and started to sling insults at me and try to coerce and manipulate my son's mind about his own father, basically harassing my son.

00:03:36.000 My son became very nervous, uneasy with the situation.

00:03:39.000 I could tell he was scared.

00:03:41.000 And I told the man to get away.

00:03:42.000 It's not the first time I told him to do that, but on this day I told him to get away.

00:03:47.000 He would not comply with that.

00:03:48.000 He continued to communicate with my son.

00:03:51.000 It got to the point where I walked him back to his post where he normally stands.

00:03:56.000 And I told him not to talk to my son.

00:03:59.000 He turned around.

00:04:00.000 I turned around thinking he was leaving.

00:04:02.000 And he continued to speak to my son.

00:04:06.000 As any good father, as any good dad, I turned around and I pushed him.

00:04:10.000 And that was the original incident.

00:04:12.000 Now, what followed from that, Charlie, is a private criminal complaint.

00:04:16.000 The DA, the Philadelphia Police Department, did not want to do anything with it.

00:04:20.000 They have bigger fish to fry, I guess.

00:04:23.000 And he filed a private criminal complaint.

00:04:25.000 It went to municipal court in Philadelphia.

00:04:27.000 After about four hearings, the man that accused me of these things didn't even bother to show up for court.

00:04:35.000 So it was dismissed on April 22nd, on April 20th, this past year, 2022.

00:04:41.000 On April 27th, five days later, I was given a target letter saying that I was a target of a federal grand jury investigation and that my attorney should contact the assistant U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Philadelphia.

00:04:54.000 We did do that.

00:04:55.000 We complied with all that.

00:04:58.000 Thomas Moore Society was representing me at the time.

00:05:00.000 Matt Hefron, my attorney, was a former federal prosecutor.

00:05:04.000 And he said to Anita Eve, the AUSA, that you have no case.

00:05:09.000 There's case law against this.

00:05:10.000 But if you want to indict my client, no reason to bring an agent out to his house, we'll come down peacefully and present him.

00:05:19.000 About six months go by, five actually.

00:05:22.000 My attorney reaches out to me and says, have you heard anything from the AUSA?

00:05:26.000 I said, no.

00:05:28.000 He said, me neither.

00:05:29.000 She won't return my phone calls.

00:05:31.000 Next thing I know, Charlie, 6:45 in the morning, Friday, September 23rd, about two dozen federal agents and PA state troopers were on my doorstep, banging on my door, demanding me to open the door, full SWAT gear, full SWAT, heavily armored vest, ballistic shields, ballistic helmets, M16s, battering ram, ready to break down my door if I didn't open it up, which I calmly did,

00:05:59.000 and proceeded to have dialogue with them.

00:06:02.000 They said they were going to arrest me.

00:06:06.000 And my wife asked for a warrant.

00:06:08.000 They said we're taking him with or without a warrant.

00:06:11.000 And then eventually, after about 15 minutes of reckless behavior, scary moments for my children and my wife, I was put in custody and taken down to the federal building in Philadelphia.

00:06:23.000 And so you just recently had your trial.

00:06:25.000 It seems as if this was a very quick timeline between the raid and the trial.

00:06:30.000 And so was there a reason for that?

00:06:33.000 That's a good question.

00:06:35.000 I think, you know, you look some of these things up.

00:06:37.000 Whenever there's a minor involved in a trial like this, they try to expedite it so that the child isn't further traumatized.

00:06:44.000 No one communicated to me that that was the reason.

00:06:47.000 We were just first up, couldn't believe it was four months after the David DeLeidon's case and he's still in court and waiting his trial for many things and it's been years.

00:07:01.000 So you just recently had your trial and they were, this is the federal government, right?

00:07:05.000 So there was a, is it fair to say there was a federal prosecutor that was arguing to try to put you in jail?

00:07:12.000 What law were they alleging that you broke?

00:07:16.000 So I was I was charged with allegedly violating the FACE Act, which is a 1994 federal law that was enacted sponsored by the late Senator Ted Kennedy and Chuck Schumer.

00:07:30.000 And basically it was designed in the 1990s to deal with pro-lifers who were performing public sit-ins and civil disobedience called the rescue movement.

00:07:40.000 And they effectively did that under Bill Clinton's administration.

00:07:44.000 It has been resurrected to come after pro-lifers.

00:07:47.000 Basically, the act stands for federal access to clinic entrances and it protects those.

00:07:52.000 Those acronyms drive me crazy.

00:07:53.000 Sorry, continue.

00:07:54.000 That's okay.

00:07:55.000 It protects those that are coming into and out of an abortion facility, or it even protects those trying to get into a pregnancy resource center, believe it or not.

00:08:04.000 In this case, it's being applied widely to against pro-lifers and not being adequately or equally applied to the violations against people with intent to go to pregnancy resource centers or violence against pregnancy resource centers.

00:08:19.000 But in this case, it was applied to me.

00:08:21.000 They had two counts with three to four elements under each.

00:08:25.000 And basically, it was a violation of the FACE Act that held up to 11 years in prison and $350,000 in fine.

00:08:34.000 And so the government spent their time on you and these two charges.

00:08:38.000 And thankfully, the system that our founding fathers established of having a jury of your peers and presumption of innocence and representation and a speedy trial and this legal system inherited by Blackstone and from biblical principles, you're now exonerated.

00:08:58.000 Do you have plans, though, to counter-sue the government for going after you?

00:09:03.000 Yes, I mean, people need to be held accountable.

00:09:06.000 On that day, my wife and children were terrorized and to this day still feel the effects.

00:09:13.000 I mean, I have seven children aged 14 at the time, 13 down to three.

00:09:18.000 And my wife and children need and deserve justice and they will get justice.

00:09:25.000 And myself, now that I'm acquitted, will be a part of that.

00:09:28.000 And we will sue the federal government, the Department of Justice.

00:09:32.000 We actually will probably be pursuing other lawsuits against planned parents.

00:09:37.000 I would hope so.

00:09:38.000 Yeah, I mean, and just I know a lot of people did pro bono work for you, but I mean, it just should be a law somewhere that if the government loses, they should have to pay your legal bills.

00:09:50.000 I mean, they get to use the public treasury.

00:09:53.000 I'm sure you had to spend some money, but I know a lot of groups stepped up and defend you.

00:09:57.000 Any thoughts on that?

00:09:58.000 Yeah, sure.

00:09:58.000 Thomas Moore Society, the Calvary, right, for us as Pro-Life America, they came and they were gracious and generous.

00:10:05.000 So, yeah.

00:10:07.000 That's great.

00:10:07.000 Not every, especially with the January 6th defendants, they don't have access to legal representation.

00:10:13.000 And it's a tragedy.

00:10:15.000 Stay right there, Mark.

00:10:16.000 I want to ask you a couple more questions.

00:10:19.000 I want to tell you guys about COVID tax relief.

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00:10:31.000 Again, I'm not a fan that this money exists or that's out there or that it's available, but as they say, it is what it is.

00:10:37.000 Look, COVIDTaxRelief.org got a small retail business, almost $80,000.

00:10:42.000 COVIDtaxRelief.org got a manufacturing business, nearly $250,000.

00:10:47.000 COVIDtaxRelief.org got a large distribution business, almost $900,000.

00:10:51.000 If you run a business, church or nonprofit, and paid your employees through all or part of the pandemic, you could qualify for up to $26,000 per employee through the Government Cares Act.

00:11:01.000 COVIDtaxRelief.org receives a low commission, very reasonable, only after you receive the money.

00:11:05.000 So go to covidtaxrelief.org.

00:11:07.000 That is covidtaxrelief.org, covidtaxrelief.org.

00:11:11.000 Check it out right now, covidtaxrelief.org.

00:11:17.000 Pro-life centers were firebombed across the country.

00:11:20.000 They tried to kill Brett Kavanaugh.

00:11:22.000 The leaker was never found, but their focus was on Mark Hauk.

00:11:26.000 And Mark, what did you do?

00:11:28.000 You were praying outside of a clinic and some paid agitator probably tried to come up to your kid.

00:11:34.000 I mean, did the government show any remorse or hesitation throughout this entire prosecutorial process?

00:11:40.000 This is the federal government of the United States.

00:11:42.000 Yes.

00:11:44.000 Well, the gentleman that you allude to, he's been there, a volunteer for 20 years.

00:11:48.000 So, you know, that kind of puts that to rest.

00:11:52.000 The government, how they handled this and how they treated me is interesting and something we'll hopefully take before Congress.

00:12:00.000 When they came to my house that day, again, if you know anything about a federal agent coming to your home to serve a warrant or to arrest somebody, usually it's one or two people.

00:12:13.000 Now, the FBI does their homework and they do tremendous research over who they're going to go out and bring this paperwork to.

00:12:21.000 On that particular day, I had over 20 plus agents and PA state troopers that were at my house with long guns and full SWAT gear.

00:12:31.000 I'm surprised someone didn't get shot that day.

00:12:33.000 I'm surprised one of my children weren't shot.

00:12:35.000 We do have some airsoft guns in the house.

00:12:38.000 But if one of my children thought this was interesting, a little five-year-old or four-year-old, they would have been shot.

00:12:43.000 So it was extremely reckless.

00:12:46.000 Once I was put in custody, I was not told that I would be returning to my family.

00:12:51.000 I wasn't told anything.

00:12:53.000 Again, they said they were going to take me with her without a warrant.

00:12:56.000 They did have a warrant, but that's how they communicated to my wife.

00:12:59.000 As my children were screaming and they took me away, they wouldn't allow me to get a pair of pants, to get a sweatshirt on a cold day, to put socks on, wouldn't allow me to brush my teeth, wouldn't let me put antiodorant on.

00:13:11.000 It was 6:45 in the morning.

00:13:15.000 Normally, when an agent comes to your house, they might say, you know, sure, we're going to take you downtown, finish your coffee, you know, get your stuff together.

00:13:22.000 We'll wait for you.

00:13:23.000 But that didn't happen.

00:13:24.000 On this day, I was rushed out of my home, taken to the federal building about 100 yards from Independence Hall, where our rights were established.

00:13:31.000 I was cuffed, shackled in my waist and on my feet in the federal building.

00:13:37.000 I was chained to a table for over six hours with my hands and shackled.

00:13:42.000 I had bare ankles, tightly, the cuffs were tightly put on my ankles.

00:13:47.000 And for six hours, I just prayed and entered into a deeper union with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

00:13:55.000 Now, during that process, while I was praying and entering into that piece of that space, they manipulated and coerced me to give over information that they told me I didn't have to give.

00:14:07.000 And they did the same to my wife.

00:14:10.000 Eventually, we were given a bond.

00:14:12.000 If we fulfilled all the requirements of the bond, we would be released on our own recognizance.

00:14:16.000 And I submit to you today, Charlie, that the government had every intention of releasing me that day.

00:14:22.000 What their goal was was to humiliate me, intimidate me, instill fear in me, my wife, and my children, and pro-life Americans.

00:14:31.000 The movement, that's exactly right.

00:14:33.000 They wanted this was a show trial.

00:14:34.000 This is a Soviet tactic where they will drag an opposition political leader through the streets and they'll well-publicize it and they'll put you in prison and arrest you. 0.52

00:14:44.000 And they'll say, Hey, for all of you out there there that think you can challenge the regime, look what happened to Mark.

00:14:49.000 That's right.

00:14:50.000 Well, you know, and it continued, a pre-trial hearing.

00:14:53.000 And then eventually they moved me to the U.S. Marshals.

00:14:58.000 Now, you got to know in Philadelphia in the federal building, the U.S. Marshals are in the same building.

00:15:03.000 So they kept me in shackles the whole time.

00:15:07.000 As I walked to the U.S. Marshals, or I should say, shimmied my feet, there was no need to keep feet shackles, ankle shackles on me as I was going to be released at the U.S. Marshals.

00:15:20.000 I asked why that had to be, and I got no answer.

00:15:23.000 I was treated like an animal.

00:15:25.000 I was talked to like I wasn't innocent.

00:15:27.000 There was no presumption of innocence.

00:15:29.000 It was guilty as charged, criminal.

00:15:32.000 And this is exactly how I was treated.

00:15:36.000 Finally reunited with my family about 10 hours after the initial arrest.

00:15:40.000 After the repeal of Roe versus Wade, the pro-abortion lobby was out for blood.

00:15:45.000 They bombed abortion centers all across the country.

00:15:47.000 We have some B-roll of this.

00:15:48.000 And there was a list.

00:15:50.000 And these bloodthirsty savages had said, you know what?

00:15:56.000 We need to go arrest anybody that has any sort of, that has like anything in the atmospherics of committing a crime, which of course you didn't.

00:16:05.000 And they went after you and they went after so many other people because they need to make a public example of this.

00:16:11.000 Look at the firebombing here we're showing on air here, one after the other, after the other.

00:16:16.000 And I'm glad you got acquitted, but you should never have gone through that.

00:16:21.000 And I think you should sue the federal government.

00:16:23.000 Of course, no one will be fired from the federal government.

00:16:25.000 For them, it's all the same.

00:16:26.000 They get their pension.

00:16:27.000 They get paid, you know, when they raid people's homes and they do whatever they want to do.

00:16:31.000 This is so wrong.

00:16:32.000 It's so terrible.

00:16:33.000 I'm pleased it ended well, but it shows that we are living in a country that is very similar to the Soviet Union. 0.91

00:16:39.000 And it pains me to say that.

00:16:40.000 Mark, thank you so much.

00:16:42.000 Charlie, thanks for having me.

00:16:43.000 And God bless you and your audience.

00:16:45.000 God bless you.

00:16:46.000 Thank you for your faith.

00:16:49.000 All right, everybody.

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00:18:36.000 With us now is James Lawrence.

00:18:38.000 James Lawrence is a lawyer and he's on Douglas Mackey's legal team.

00:18:43.000 So first, James, welcome to the program.

00:18:45.000 Let me introduce the story of Douglas Mackey.

00:18:47.000 We've talked about this before.

00:18:49.000 This story fires me up, as it should our audience, and it really hasn't received the coverage that I think it should.

00:18:56.000 So Douglas Mackey, for lack of a better term, was a, let's just say, a talented internet voice in 2016 and started to make memes.

00:19:07.000 He's a meme maker, okay?

00:19:08.000 And he's a comedian.

00:19:10.000 He made memes in the fall of 2016, making fun of the ridiculous Hillary Clinton advertisements and posters, and some of which that said, we could put it up on the screen, avoid the line, vote from home, text Hillary to 59925. 0.91

00:19:26.000 Obviously a joke, silly.

00:19:28.000 And there were other, or how about this one? 0.77

00:19:29.000 Join Hillary to fight Russia with our greatest asset, diversity. 1.00

00:19:32.000 Hilarious.

00:19:33.000 However, the Biden administration doesn't find this to be very funny.

00:19:37.000 They are now trying to put the meme maker himself, Douglas Mackey, in jail and criminalizing comedy.

00:19:45.000 And James Lawrence is part of the legal team trying to fight the government on this.

00:19:48.000 James, again, welcome to the program.

00:19:49.000 Walk us through it.

00:19:51.000 Hey, Charlie.

00:19:52.000 First of all, thanks so much for having me.

00:19:54.000 Thank you for taking the time to really address a case that goes to the heart of the First Amendment and really who we are as a country.

00:20:03.000 So thank you for having me again.

00:20:06.000 This case, as you mentioned, really does present an unprecedented prosecution by the federal government against what we believe to be constitutionally protected speech.

00:20:18.000 My client, Mr. Mackey, is accused of violating 18 U.S.C. 241.

00:20:26.000 And I want to take a second and just explain what that statute stands for.

00:20:32.000 It was passed originally, Charlie, in the aftermath of the Civil War to guarantee the right of newly freed slaves to vote and to protect them and to prevent recalcitrant forces in the South from interfering with, again, the right to vote, the right to exercise constitutional rights.

00:20:57.000 And the statute speaks specifically of barring conspiracies to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in connection with the exercise of those rights.

00:21:14.000 And up until Mr. Mackey's indictment just days after President Biden took office, to our knowledge, it's never been used in this way to really tackle what would otherwise be constitutionally protected speech, as we've argued in the motions and the pleadings that have been made in the case to this point.

00:21:44.000 And so the government's position, and this is why this case is so important and could have such a chilling effect on free speech, is that what Mr. Mackey is alleged to have tweeted out on Twitter could end up with him facing down not only a felony conviction,

00:22:08.000 but 10 years, up to 10 years in prison for the meme specifically you mentioned the draft of otters, which is mentioned in the government's indictment, but also the tweet that which we maintain is satirical, the tweet about being able to text your vote for Hillary Clinton.

00:22:31.000 And so that's where we stand right now.

00:22:33.000 And the case is set to go to trial in the middle of March in Brooklyn, New York.

00:22:41.000 So the government's argument is that they think this meme, specifically the one with texting your vote, was misleading to people to such a great extent that it might have materially moved votes.

00:23:00.000 From my memory, that's a very weak argument.

00:23:03.000 Is the government going to be able to prove that?

00:23:05.000 That somebody did not vote or was disenfranchised because of a meme?

00:23:10.000 Well, Charlie, it's a great question.

00:23:12.000 Now, the government's argument, I think, is that they don't have to, in their view, show that any particular person did not vote as a result of viewing this meme, right?

00:23:29.000 That the conspiracy and the intention of a defendant in Mr. Mackey's alleged circumstances is sufficient in the government's view to support a conviction.

00:23:42.000 Therefore, I suppose it's incumbent on your legal team to just prove that he's a satirist then.

00:23:48.000 How do you prove that?

00:23:51.000 Well, and Charlie, there's certain things I can't get into.

00:23:55.000 No, I know, I'm just speculating out loud.

00:23:57.000 I'm not asking.

00:23:58.000 I'm not trying to make your job harder, but yeah.

00:24:00.000 Right.

00:24:01.000 No, and much appreciated.

00:24:03.000 But certainly, if one goes back in time to the 2016 election, there were quite a few of these kinds of memes that were floating around in the Twitter sphere to include memes that were targeted toward Trump supporters.

00:24:21.000 In fact, there's a similarly situated meme that's still on Twitter to this very day that invites Trump supporters to vote by mail.

00:24:33.000 And so there were these efforts that were going on.

00:24:36.000 There were conversations that were taking place and being had.

00:24:42.000 But again, the government hasn't alleged that a single vote was moved because of Mr. Mackey's memes and its read of the statute is it's not something that it has to prove.

00:24:56.000 But then it just has to improve, you have to prove intent of what.

00:25:00.000 I'm just trying to make sure I understand this.

00:25:01.000 So they have to prove that the intent, the deep-seated private beliefs of what he did was to try to disenfranchise blacks.

00:25:13.000 I mean, is that what you to interfere to interfere with to interfere with the right to vote, to do what the statute says is barred, to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person with respect to exercising their right to vote is the theory that the government has advanced.

00:25:36.000 And again, this is my synopsis of paper.

00:25:40.000 And Charlie, as you can probably surmise, if this prosecution stands and this theory has legs, the implications for other speech are dire and they're troubling.

00:26:01.000 Regardless of whether or not one agrees with Mr. Mackey's speech, regardless of your political ideology, left, right, center, whatever it might be, this prosecution has significant and in our view, troubling implications for First Amendment rights.

00:26:25.000 And that's why we really are asking people who want to help with this effort to consider giving to support Mr. Mackey's legal defense.

00:26:38.000 And you can learn more about that at memedefensefund.com.

00:26:45.000 And if you feel led, you can donate and support the effort here.

00:26:50.000 Because again, this is larger.

00:26:52.000 And in our view, just his speech.

00:26:56.000 So this is one of the more dangerous prosecutions that could set a precedent to go after any commentator or political actor.

00:27:06.000 And I also just can't quite wrap my head around this idea of interference because they're going to say, oh, look, he was a pro-Trump activist.

00:27:15.000 Therefore, look at all these memes he was obviously trying to do.

00:27:18.000 This, but hold on.

00:27:19.000 But then is you're able to indict somebody for political advocacy?

00:27:23.000 I mean, that's where the line doesn't make any sense to me.

00:27:29.000 Well, and from our perspective, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to the defense team's perspective either, right?

00:27:39.000 But we do have, and Doug, my client in particular, does have, you know, not one, great faith in God, first of all and foremost.

00:27:50.000 And for a lot of your viewers who are asking what they can do to partner, I've already mentioned meme defensefund.com as a way to help.

00:28:01.000 But we would ask for prayer, truly.

00:28:03.000 We would ask for prayer for the case, for Doug, for the defense and for justice to be done in this case.

00:28:12.000 Because again, the implications are so, from our vantage point, so significant and the stakes are so high for the First Amendment.

00:28:23.000 And the ability of people, regardless of political ideology, really, to use satire, to use memes to criticize the powers that be in our society.

00:28:38.000 That's what we see as being at stake in this prosecution.

00:28:44.000 I think you're going to win.

00:28:45.000 I don't know if you'll win in the jury.

00:28:47.000 I have no idea, but I think you're going to win the court of public opinion.

00:28:49.000 I'm certain of that.

00:28:53.000 The website is meme defensefund.com.

00:28:57.000 I'm working with our team at Turning Point USA.

00:28:59.000 We're going to do a matching type grant that if a certain amount could be raised, then we will match it at Turning Point USA up to a certain amount.

00:29:07.000 We're going to figure that out and make an announcement because this is one of the more important cases and trials.

00:29:13.000 The implications for freedom of speech are wide-ranging and significant.

00:29:19.000 And the Biden regime knows, and of course they're doing this in Brooklyn, obviously.

00:29:22.000 They wouldn't do this in Oklahoma City.

00:29:25.000 They're doing this as a way to try to set a precedent.

00:29:28.000 With this is James Lawrence, who's part of the legal team here.

00:29:31.000 Can you just elaborate a little bit more on the far-ranging implications here?

00:29:36.000 This is political speech that was done satirically with a comedic spirit.

00:29:41.000 This could very well set a precedent where if you say something that we don't like, we could put you in prison.

00:29:50.000 Well, yeah, Charlie, yeah, again, that's our view of this case from the defense side of the table, that if this prosecution stands and if the federal government using the statute,

00:30:04.000 this well-intentioned statute, which again was passed to protect the rights of free slaves in the post-Civil War South, if this can be weaponized in this way to attack an individual's right to use memes to critique the powers that be in our society in this context,

00:30:27.000 again, regardless of whether or not one agrees with the content, then one could see it being used not just to prosecute people who are accused of spreading disinformation about the method and ways of voting,

00:30:42.000 but about the actual candidates that are on the ballot as well, conceivably, because it could, in an attenuated way, interfere with the person's ability to cast a vote for a desired candidate.

00:30:58.000 This is the Pandora's box that the government's prosecution of Douglas Mackey invites.

00:31:05.000 And we are committed on the defense team to shutting the door to this, which will be to the redown and the benefit really of all Americans, regardless of political ideology.

00:31:17.000 This is chilling to all speech.

00:31:19.000 And I mean, I can't imagine that this would withstand an equal protection appeal.

00:31:26.000 I only say this because I know for certain that there is a voluminous records of people on the political left that use this sort of tactic.

00:31:38.000 I mean, is that at all in your calculus or is that a separate issue?

00:31:42.000 Well, you know, Charlie, one would expect that the most venerable civil liberties organization in our country would be standing up to the plate.

00:31:53.000 Yeah, where's the ACLU?

00:31:55.000 They're too bad.

00:31:57.000 Why are you talking, Charlie?

00:31:58.000 Why are you talking to a person who spent most of their career as a complex commercial litigator from Raleigh, North Carolina? about a case like this?

00:32:10.000 Why aren't you talking to somebody, again, from our nation's most respected and venerable civil liberties organization?

00:32:18.000 No, the ACLU is too busy trying to make sure kids could chop off their private property.

00:32:23.000 One has to make the argument.

00:32:24.000 I will say this, you know, Charlie, I had the privilege.

00:32:28.000 I had the opportunity in April of 2020 to stand shoulder to shoulder with working class people and moms who were trying to go out and protest our governor's lockdown orders here in North Carolina.

00:32:40.000 It was work that the ACLU would not do.

00:32:42.000 It's a privilege to stand shoulder to shoulder with Douglas Mackey and defend him in this case.

00:32:50.000 I'm honored to be a part of the defense team.

00:32:53.000 And again, my message to your viewers is support this effort at meme defensefund.com.

00:33:00.000 But even more importantly, really, I believe in the power of prayer.

00:33:04.000 James 5.16 says that the prayers of the righteous avail of much.

00:33:08.000 And I know there are a lot of people that are listening to this broadcast right now that are righteous.

00:33:14.000 And I would ask for them to pray for Doug, to pray for me, to pray for the defense team, to pray for justice to be done.

00:33:21.000 It really is the most important thing you can do.

00:33:24.000 We're going to keep our eyes on it.

00:33:25.000 We're going to announce a modest matching opportunity, but at least something to help get some money through to the Meme Defense Fund.

00:33:33.000 They're trying to chill and criminalize speech, and it's happening in front of our very eyes.

00:33:38.000 It's right here.

00:33:39.000 So check it out, meme-defensefund.com.

00:33:41.000 Thank you so much, James.

00:33:43.000 And I pray that you are successful.

00:33:45.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:33:46.000 God bless you.

00:33:47.000 Thank you.

00:33:50.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:33:51.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:33:54.000 Thank you so much for listening and God bless.

00:33:59.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - February 02, 2023

The Sovietization of America with Mark Houck and James Lawrence

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