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00:02:03.000Maybe just as the because, and I think just so for the audience knows, we're going to ask you questions at the first part of this hour and then you get to ask us some because you were you agreed to do this if you got to ask us.
00:03:27.000Okay, in my defense, I was mostly mean to Blake.
00:03:31.000Same here, uh, and not as mean to not, yeah.
00:03:33.000So, I mean, if I if I can make a defense for myself, but anyway, well, hopefully, we can like sitting here going like I don't even know what he's referring to, but whatever.
00:04:13.000Yeah, I thought that it was going to get pretty brutal because the left was out in force and they were weaponizing everything that they possibly could against the legacy of Charlie Kirk.
00:04:25.000He had become a martyr overnight to the entirety of the right.
00:05:21.000Well, if I could take the lead on this, just what were your immediate feelings getting in that room, engaging with her directly in person like that for?
00:05:58.000It was just kind of incoherent babble and ramble.
00:06:00.000And anytime I would get to the point or make her address an actual point, she would go back to rambling incoherently.
00:06:07.000She didn't understand what inductive reasoning was.
00:06:09.000I even spelled it out in a very, very simplistic way.
00:06:13.000Inductive reasoning would be like if, then, and, or.
00:06:18.000So if I'm 20 minutes away from my job, you know, and I'm supposed to be there in five minutes, then I can assume I'm going to be late, right?
00:06:31.000That would be an inductively reasoned out position.
00:06:36.000When I explained that to her and then asked her to give me her induction for how we get to Israel.
00:06:41.000TPUSA, France, and all these other people who are involved in the conspiracy to murder Kirk, she actually didn't even understand what I was asking her.
00:06:52.000And so, you know, from my perspective, it was that was the toughest part of the debate, was that she actually didn't even understand half of what I was saying.
00:07:00.000Explain that, actually, because you do a ton of these debates, and it's sort of like one of those things.
00:07:06.000I have a good friend who's a professional tennis player.
00:07:09.000He said it's really hard to play against bad tennis players.
00:07:12.000Because you can't actually serve in volley like you've been training for years to do.
00:07:17.000It gets easier if the quality of the opponent is high.
00:07:19.000You're anticipating where a pro would hit it back and they just hit it some other stuff.
00:07:24.000Is it kind of like that where the person across from you is not even keeping up with the basic blocking and tackling of a debate?
00:07:32.000It's almost more challenging for you in that way?
00:07:34.000Well, here, actually, I'll demonstrate it for you.
00:07:37.000So you just asked me a pointed question.
00:07:40.000What your pointed question was is hey, Andrew, if somebody doesn't know what they're doing on the other side of this thing, does it actually make it more difficult?
00:07:49.000Now, I could just say, well, yes, of course.
00:07:52.000And then we would move on with the conversation.
00:07:54.000But if I was going to be Candace Owens, I would say, Well, what we're talking about here is how I feel and about how I feel about the various things that I'm talking about when it comes to debate.
00:08:06.000And you say that I'm not a very skilled interlocutor, but we have evidence of me being a skilled interlocutor.
00:08:11.000You can look back at all the times that I've done interlocuting with other people.
00:08:16.000And I think that we can all see what's going on here.
00:08:19.000So you see, you see how that doesn't, that's completely unhelpful to.
00:08:25.000Moving a conversation on or getting to the point of a conversation because it's just incoherent rambling.
00:08:31.000And so, what my whole job there was, and I knew that that was what it was going to end up being, was to make sure that I could get her to, with her words, make those claims.
00:08:45.000And the reason I knew this is we'd had a like pre debate summit, I guess you could say, with Patrick Fett David, where I talked with her briefly, and she was a prattle machine.
00:08:55.000Like, I would just be very pointed and say, Well, actually, this is probably the better idea because A, B, C, and D, very quick, 30 seconds.
00:09:02.000And she would prattle for like three minutes straight about just nonsense.
00:09:07.000And so I knew going in that that was likely what it was going to be.
00:09:11.000And so my job somewhat shifted in that debate from the idea that I could just kind of inquire towards those positions and get good faith answers to.
00:09:20.000She was going to have to let her prattle and then point out the inconsistencies.
00:09:26.000Yeah, and I've heard you describe it as sort of Operation Letter Speak kind of thing, because I guess your strategy was that she was going to sort of concede debate points all on her own, and you didn't necessarily have to do too much work to make that happen.
00:09:40.000She walked back every single claim she made and had no evidence whatsoever for any of the things she was saying.
00:09:46.000Now, I knew that she wouldn't because I had been looking through kind of the body and catalog of the alternative evidence.
00:09:57.000So, if you're a very skilled debater, the first thing that you do always is you move to falsify your position first.
00:10:07.000You always move to falsify your position.
00:10:10.000So, the idea there is if I'm going to defend a thing that I believe, the thing that makes me so good at defending it is because I know it's true because I've tried to falsify it and I can't.
00:10:56.000These are all, so they're never attempting to falsify the claims, right?
00:11:00.000That should lead to the next claim, to the next claim, to the next claim until we get to the claim of, No, Israel killed Charlie Kirk or France killed Charlie Kirk, and we never get to any of that.
00:11:20.000So I predicted that this debate, that you were going to win it because the truth is on your side, right?
00:11:26.000And as somebody who's lived this firsthand, I know all the garbage when they continually drone on about this stuff and how many lies are continually laced in and just repeated ad nauseum so that.
00:11:52.000I said, this will age really well because what I was watching is that she conceded the whole debate very early on, multiple times at every different point and juncture.
00:12:03.000She kept conceding the point, walking things back.
00:12:06.000And that as the commentariat kind of comes in that has an IQ above room temperature and pointed that out for people, that it was going to then be this kind of finishing effect after the debate.
00:12:20.000So essentially, what happened here was really interesting.
00:12:26.000The Baron Coleman's of the world and the sort of law tube picked all of this up and just started tearing her position to pieces immediately.
00:12:36.000And the commentators in the debate sphere are making a mockery of her.
00:12:40.000They think that she's a lunatic, has no idea what she's talking about.
00:12:44.000And then on the flip side to that, too, you even have Main Street coverage.
00:12:47.000And even on the Main Street coverage, it's the same thing.
00:12:51.000They're like, well, where's any of the evidence for any of these supposed claims?
00:12:57.000So not only will it age well, But what I thought that it would do more than anything else to be as candid as possible, I thought that it would up the pressure of people questioning the questioners.
00:13:10.000And I've seen a lot of that now moving on social media of people saying, hey, wait a second, where is the actual evidence?
00:13:17.000I got hundreds of DMs, for instance, from people who didn't know that the steakhouse receipt was a complete phony fraud, that the whole thing is a fraud.
00:13:24.000Well, I had no idea that that was the case.
00:13:35.000And I asked her, I said, if they had exculpatory evidence, whether it's the parents that actually, you know, think he's innocent or they have some steakhouse receipt, would they not present that at the preliminary hearing?
00:13:49.000And she was like, absolutely they would.
00:13:51.000No lawyer, if they have exculpatory evidence that proves the timeline's wrong, that proves the parents don't actually think it, would not use that evidence because those lawyers are then basically binding their parents.
00:14:04.000Client over for three years in prison for something that he didn't actually do.
00:14:07.000They absolutely would have presented that evidence at preliminary hearing.
00:14:38.000They know exactly where he actually was based on digital evidence, the whole timeline.
00:14:43.000Anyways, I want to get to this because the claim was that Tyler Robinson is a patsy, and your claim was that the evidence actually supports that Tyler Robinson's guilty.
00:16:59.000Her answer in response to that is yes, there is.
00:17:02.000And then she further qualifies it by saying that not only is that the case, but if you keep moving ahead in the timeline on that particular clip, she concedes the entirety of it, which is what he's showing there for the patsy.
00:17:17.000She says there's no good reason that you should actually believe he's a patsy.
00:17:21.000So you have two comparative claims that you can make right there.
00:17:26.000But that just completely annihilated her position.
00:17:29.000And I knew right then and there that I'd won the debate.
00:17:31.000And you can actually, if you pan, they didn't do it because she was speaking, but if they were able to pan over, you actually would have seen what I call the Wilson smug look.
00:17:39.000It looks something like this, where I'm kind of just get a little bit smug because I know for sure that's it, right?
00:17:47.000Once I get that game set match right there.
00:19:19.000We don't pay him because that'll, you know, I don't know what the allegations are going to be.
00:19:23.000But that, so I'm sitting there going, like, wait, your whole thing is that you've basically set it up that Erica Kirk is complicit in Charlie's death somehow for months.
00:19:35.000And you're going to sit there in a debate across from Andrew Wilson and say, you added those words.
00:19:44.000Like the framing of Tyler Robinson, or something like that.
00:19:47.000And I was like, I'm sitting here going, like, well, thanks for all the death threats because you just think we believe the wrong guy's guilty.
00:19:53.000Like, thanks for all of the harassment and all the death threats.
00:21:04.000From the perspective of the Owens and Owens orbiters, they have license to do whatever horrible thing that they want to anybody because they're running, quote, an investigation.
00:21:15.000So, at least from their end, that's what they say they're doing.
00:21:18.000So, if they want to dox you, if they want to harass you, if they want to harass your Family, they want to dox your family, they want to do all the things which are normally against all internet protocol, right?
00:21:28.000The things that people would normally come down hard on you for doing.
00:21:32.000They're allowed to because they're quote investigators.
00:21:35.000And so, what that does is it gives them carte blanche to do whatever horrible thing they want to somebody because they're searching for the truth, you see.
00:21:44.000And that's one of the major issues that I saw going in was like these people have given themselves license to do whatever horrible thing they want to anybody that they want.
00:21:58.000And then the way that they justify it is, well, they're part of this conspiracy.
00:22:01.000So, therefore, if we destroy their life, if we dox their family members, if we viciously attack them, if we slander them, if we demean them, if we stalk them, if we do horrible things to them, that's completely justified because all we need to do, the wine moms of the world, is unify and say, well, you're part of the conspiracy.
00:22:19.000So, we're justified in doing this to you.
00:22:23.000I'm reminded of the one time I did meet you when you came to HQ and I asked you about, I was like, why are you?
00:22:29.000You know, I'd seen a debate you did with, I think it was Zach Costello, somebody I'd never heard about before.
00:22:35.000And I asked you, I was like, why did you do this?
00:22:38.000And you said, like, you know, I expect us to fight for ourselves, but, you know, I didn't necessarily expect somebody like you, who, again, we didn't know each other.
00:22:48.000You had criticisms, fair enough, whatever.
00:22:52.000I didn't expect somebody like you to kind of get into the midst here.
00:22:57.000And your answer was actually pretty good.
00:22:59.000You said, I feel like they're in league with the left.
00:23:03.000And this is something that I've heard from you.
00:23:19.000We didn't coordinate this debate with you.
00:23:21.000All of that is just like her nonsense that she wants to put out there.
00:23:25.000But when I did meet you the one time when you came to campus to teach debate course and stuff like that, you told me that that was a deep motivator for you.
00:23:36.000That you think they're in league with the left?
00:23:39.000I had noticed for a long time that there was correspondence, very public correspondence, going on with the former stalkers of Charlie Kirk.
00:23:49.000And you might remember the former stalkers of Charlie Kirk.
00:23:52.000They called themselves the UnF America Tour.
00:24:18.000In fact, she says she just said recently to Max, a kid that I know who is going towards the pick up the mic tour can't wait to find out what skeletons you have in your closet, right?
00:24:32.000And I noticed that she was corresponding with other accounts like Project Constitution and other of these orbiters who also correspond with Baron Coleman, who corresponds with Candace Owens, et cetera, et cetera.
00:24:42.000And I thought that that was a very odd.
00:24:45.000Linkage and suspected that there might be some kind of coordination going on there.
00:24:52.000So I'd never directly accused Candace of coordinating with these people or Baron Coleman, but I did say that I thought Project Constitution was definitely coordinating with them.
00:25:02.000And then it turns out, post debate, they're all retweeting each other, including the NF America tour.
00:25:08.000They're directly corresponding with each other.
00:25:10.000And that basically confirmed all the suspicions.
00:25:12.000And I've always thought that leftists.
00:25:25.000He's pushing the narrative as hard as possible because instead of the right wing unifying and throwing these people in jail for being terrorists, which is exactly what should have happened, as the federal government had declared Antifa to be a terrorist, the right wing had all the momentum.
00:27:51.000Remember, I'm only going to get about three and a half hours here, and I only get an hour and a half.
00:27:56.000So, what I wanted to do was go after the much stronger claims that she can't just point at and say, Oh, I was just.
00:28:04.000I was just messing around, or I was just following up on leads, but claims that she has really tied herself to, like the Patsy claim, the Steakhouse claim, the French Foreign Legion claim.
00:28:17.000These are things that I think are much, much stronger to give opposition to because when she can't actually demonstrate any of this, it makes her look terrible.
00:28:28.000As opposed to like Mitch Snow, if we were doing Mitch Snow, she would just say, Well, he's just a guy I had on the show.
00:28:34.000You know, who and I didn't tell anybody they had the Egyptian planes thing, Andrew.
00:28:38.000She for months was saying this is like the thing that is going to crack everything open.
00:28:44.000And then, and then I think it was Cain of Coah the Great did a big deep dive, tracked the planes, realized it was like 70% wrong.
00:28:51.000Even like I think it was two thirds of the time the plane was on a different continent than they had it.
00:28:56.000I mean, it was trivial because you look at it and it had one.
00:28:59.000We should point this out that there are multiple times in the spreadsheet where she just repeats the same plane.
00:29:04.000So, yeah, yeah, that's not a lot of attention to detail, but a lot of it is like.
00:29:08.000All these times where Erica and these Egyptian planes, they're both flying through Wilmington, Delaware at the same time.
00:29:13.000And I don't think Erica has literally ever visited Wilmington, Delaware in her life.
00:29:18.000So, I mean, but so anyway, I just think that there's so much that has so much has transpired, so many different stories and so many different threads that we forget and that the average person forgets.
00:29:32.000But when we actually, I was actually Blake, I was off that day, sort of invited her to have a debate.
00:29:38.000With us, she ended up pulling something like this French Foreign Legion thing where she thought there was some cartel guy here in Arizona that was going to try and assassinate her.
00:29:48.000And so we couldn't do it in Arizona, actually.
00:29:50.000That was like, I don't know if people know that story or not.
00:29:53.000I can't remember what's public and what's not.
00:31:15.000I don't think she has a problem with that, but that is their earpiece.
00:31:19.000So, what's the story with the earpiece?
00:31:21.000Because I asked my tech team, I said, could you, if I had you in studio with me, could I route it in such a way that I feed different sources to different people?
00:31:32.000We don't have it routed that way, but you could.
00:32:45.000The fact that I had to pay for access just to ask basic questions in a way that she couldn't evade, that's probably never going to happen again.
00:33:22.000Just make whatever concessions they want and get in the room because I know once I'm in the room, I'm going to be able to expose that there's no evidence for any of these claims at all, and there never has been.
00:33:33.000So that was my whole thought process was like, whatever, just concede to whatever crazy stuff that they want so that we can get there.
00:33:41.000Well, do you feel there was any unfinished business to the debate?
00:33:45.000Is there anything you really wish you'd gotten to, or is there anything if you had a round two without spoiling what your strategy would be should that round two happen that you feel it merits more exploration?
00:33:58.000Yeah, I think you rate yourself the only.
00:34:00.000My biggest, yeah, my biggest critique is that I think it would have actually been better if we had done timed rounds so I could hold her feet to the fire better because she would just filibuster, right?
00:34:13.000If you look at the debate time, she got twice the speaking time that I did.
00:34:17.000And you can't be particularly aggressive.
00:34:20.000It's in her house with, you know, she's pregnant.
00:34:23.000It would have been terrible optics if I had been as aggressive as I have been in the past in different debates.
00:34:29.000I had to take a different strategy here.
00:34:31.000Ultimately, though, yeah, I think that she needed to be hammered even more on a lot of these questions until she actually gave even more concise answers and reconciled some of the contradictions.
00:34:43.000But that just wasn't possible in that format.
00:34:45.000But I think ultimately we got exactly what it was that I set out to do, which is we got the answer, right?
00:35:34.000Well, and so did you, were you concerned she was just going to get up and walk out if you pressed her too hard or if you got too aggressive?
00:35:41.000In fact, she wanted to make it very clear in the contract that once we're seated in the studio, essentially her contractual obligation is fulfilled.
00:35:50.000And so that was, she was trying to make that, you know, part of the agreement of the initial contract.
00:35:57.000And that was, in fact, I'm sure in case she did decide that she was getting pressed too hard and then rage quit and then said, but that now I can keep all the money, right?
00:36:07.000Because we fulfilled our contractual end.
00:36:10.000Did you put the money in like an escrow account or something?
00:36:37.000So that's how I set it up we'll send $300,000 to your attorney.
00:36:42.000I mean, you know, I'm reminded of something that Charlie told us, something Blake and I have reflected on.
00:36:50.000You know, he said, if you want to understand, Candace just knows all she cares about is money, which I think he's actually was mistaken about.
00:36:58.000I think we've seen that it's power, it's influence.
00:37:08.000Yeah, we could speculate more, but the money thing just goes away.
00:37:11.000I think it's just about being able to destroy a person's life and then saying that you're justified in doing it because you're running a quote investigation.
00:37:19.000The fact of the matter is that these people have run for essentially a year.
00:37:26.000A massive campaign of slander, doxing, harassment, every sort of horror that you can imagine conducted on other people.
00:37:35.000And if you even dare disagree with them in a public sense, they move to report your channel.
00:37:40.000I can show you hundreds of these various messages saying, Go to Andrew's YouTube, right?
00:37:46.000He promised people who were members he was going to release information and didn't.
00:37:51.000Go report him when they knew it wasn't true, right?
00:37:54.000Well, it's a tons and tons of these people focus on deplatforming doxing operations.
00:38:00.000And then justify it through, quote, we're running an investigation.
00:38:03.000And the internet usually frowns on that in a big way.
00:38:07.000But because they claim that it's an open source investigation, they've thus far been able to get away with some of that.
00:38:12.000But I'm hoping that we're going to start putting a stop to it.
00:38:14.000Well, and they all got their own group chats.
00:38:17.000And I noticed I can see it on my, like on X, if I make a post and you can see it raises their attention, it catches their attention.
00:38:24.000They all brigade it and they try and get a community note put on it.
00:38:27.000You see this kind of coordinated efforts a lot, actually.
00:38:31.000And they made a big deal about this group of 92.
00:38:33.000Let me say for the, For the internet's record here, I didn't even know this group chat existed.
00:38:41.000Nobody was paid, nobody was coordinated.
00:38:43.000These are people doing it organically to defend against what they see as a smear campaign, a character assassination against Erica, against Turning Point, against Charlie's legacy.
00:38:53.000We don't have to pay people to do this.
00:38:56.000There are still good people out there that see it and see it for what it is.
00:39:00.000And the hypocrisy is crazy because they're doing this themselves.
00:39:04.000And we can see it in the way that they brigade the comments and they.
00:39:20.000Imagine having the power to just make the claim, well, this person could potentially be in on it.
00:39:25.000And just by saying that, you now have given carte blanche power to people to run massive doxing and harassment campaigns, look for private data, look for private medical records, private emails.
00:39:38.000Private papers and effects, private conversations, various things like this.
00:39:44.000They now believe that they have carte blanche to all of that on private individuals by just giving the nod, oh, they might have been in on it.
00:39:53.000That, by the way, gentlemen, is extraordinary power for one single person on the internet to have.
00:40:00.000It's extraordinary power to be able to just mark an entire mob to go and destroy a person's entire life.
00:40:09.000By just saying they could be a part of this thing.
00:40:12.000I mean, that's, that's, and I think that a lot of people miss that part that they've been able to justify this by claiming it's an open source investigation.
00:41:16.000Actually, Blake makes a very uh astute point here that if you look at color revolutions of the past where they say it's us versus them, you'll see a lot of this in the posting as well.
00:41:27.000It's about the elites, it's about the oligarchs, it's about the dividers at the top trying to keep us uh down.
00:41:35.000These are all very uh very communist and by the way, feminist coded.
00:41:41.000If you're if you want to know the truth, very feminist coded language, the idea of.
00:41:45.000Well, we're just being divided not because of worldviews, but because the rich, powerful elite want us to be divided.
00:41:52.000No, we actually, normal people have completely different worldviews from each other.
00:41:57.000They're going to be divided on political issues across the board.
00:42:00.000That is the state of affairs, has nothing even to do with the elite.
00:42:04.000While I'm sure that there are some people who exacerbate certain problems in order to get divisionary responses or rage bait or what have you, people have very different worldviews, but it's very, very feminist coded language, very communist coded language.
00:42:19.000I do actually agree with that because I see it over and over and over again.
00:42:23.000And you'll hear this in that particular movement all the time.
00:43:00.000I don't think I'm going to do that, actually.
00:43:02.000Yeah, well, which is why your observation that they're partnering with some of these Act Blue groups, I think, is really apt and was a keen insight that you injected into the discourse because it completely is feminist coded.
00:43:17.000And I just want people watching to understand that we've had low level staff had to have cops parked out in front of their homes because they got doxxed.
00:43:27.000And I think I mentioned you were mentioning that power to just sick a giant mob on people.
00:43:32.000That I was talking to a member of our staff who was.
00:43:35.000Featured in one of her recent episodes, and he had not seen the episode and didn't know what it said.
00:43:39.000And he just goes, Blake, was I the topic today?
00:43:43.000Because I can tell because I get the unsolicited Facebook messages, I get the unsolicited text messages start to come in, it all floods in.
00:43:52.000So he knows when he's been a character in the stuff that they're doing soap opera, this drip, And I do want to actually address that, you know, because before the debate, you reached out.
00:44:07.000And this is one of the reasons that Candace has said that you were our horse or whatever.
00:44:12.000Again, Andrew did this of his own accord.
00:44:14.000He's been on this since before I even knew he existed.
00:44:17.000He was debating people about this before I even knew who you were.
00:44:22.000But you did reach out before the debate and you said, hey, I've got some questions.
00:44:27.000Do you have any evidence about some of this stuff?
00:44:30.000Now, some of this stuff we didn't even know about internally because it was like on Charlie's phone and.
00:44:36.000You know, Erica looked on the wrong apps.
00:44:39.000It was this text exchange, and you read it at the beginning in your opening comments.
00:44:44.000You have not disclosed it publicly, and I have told the team that it's yours to disclose it at the timing that you wish.
00:44:51.000And you've said you're going to disclose that on Friday, but that was something that I wasn't even fully aware of the language that Charlie used, which was he was concerned about the left.
00:45:05.000Now, the thing that was interesting, it didn't shock me a bit.
00:45:10.000Because when I went back and looked at all of Kirk's public tweets and when he would do public speaking and interviews, if you're talking about Bill Maher, for instance, where he calls them the purple haired Taliban, if you look at his tweets where he says that he's concerned that leftists are attempting to kill and murder him, that doesn't surprise me at all.
00:45:49.000And so the interesting part here is like it didn't shock me a bit because Kirk's entire pattern, when I went back and reviewed it, was he was really, really, really concerned a leftist was going to kill him.
00:46:03.000And then it looks, at least appears at the moment, based on all the evidence that one did, that that's exactly what happened, that his fears were completely justified.
00:46:12.000Andrew, we have stories specifically about this.
00:46:15.000The only time I ever saw Charlie remove somebody, because sometimes security, somebody was acting up and we didn't even hear about it until after the fact.
00:46:24.000Security will remove somebody or whatever from an event.
00:46:26.000The only time I ever saw Charlie say, that person needs to go was when he personally felt unsafe around a trans person at one of the events.
00:46:55.000And it's, you know, if they're taking feminizing hormones, that's going to make you less likely to do shooty type stuff.
00:47:02.000And I was totally wrong because there started to be more of those.
00:47:05.000There was one, we were, I remember him saying like a trans person might do it.
00:47:10.000This was not a text, otherwise I'd show it, but it was in person because a few days before September 10th, there was one up in Canada, I believe, where again, it was one of the, I think it was an MTF, and they went nuts and shot up their school or some sort of function like that.
00:47:26.000And I think the family, anyways, yeah, and we were, So, before we do these tours, we would put together these binders.
00:47:59.000And he was legitimately worried about that specific topic.
00:48:03.000So there's like, and yeah, and he mentioned the Bill Maher clip.
00:48:06.000And there's actually a major part of this that you guys may not actually know about, for that justifies Kirk's fear of this even more.
00:48:15.000And I don't know if he knew about this or not, but it did happen.
00:48:18.000Once upon a time on Twitch politics and on YouTube, there was a lunatic named Keffels who was utilizing the T mob to deplatform any creator who spoke out against T hormones and things like this towards children.
00:48:52.000So these people were beginning their approach for these kind of mass campaigns against right wingers before it ever even turned into the violence that you saw.
00:49:03.000It started online with deplatforming and unpersoning.
00:49:06.000So there's actually a lot more to give that.
00:49:12.000No, and we, by the way, that's how we ran Charlie's YouTube, just so everybody's clear.
00:49:16.000We're never allowed to go into that topic because he did get demonetized.
00:49:21.000I believe the team can fact check me on it, but I believe it was over that topic.
00:49:26.000Different things for different platforms like Facebook, it was climate change, YouTube, it was always the trans stuff.
00:49:31.000Anyway, so we were very, very careful about that specific topic.
00:49:35.000So just another piece of evidence behind what you're talking about here.
00:49:39.000Andrew, So, an hour has gone by very, very quickly here, and we're going to sign off for our Real America's Voice family here in just about a minute and a half.
00:49:51.000But, you know, I think to wrap this up and then we're going to transition, we'll keep going, and you get to then ask us questions because that's what we agreed to, and we're an open book, so you can feel free to ask.
00:50:02.000And if you would like, I can always, you know, if you want to keep it within the time constraints, we can always come back next week and I can ask the questions.
00:50:43.000And he was demonetized for several years on and off due to the fact that he was refusing to back down from the T Mafia and was making fun of them so much.
00:50:54.000So he dealt with that himself quite a bit.
00:50:57.000What we ended up having to do on YouTube was just take it off YouTube and go to alternative platforms if we even wanted to discuss it.
00:51:03.000That's how powerful that lobby became until right wingers began breaking it up.
00:51:09.000We stopped streaming Charlie's show on YouTube.
00:51:12.000We would only edit out clips and then post them after the fact.
00:52:24.000And here's the best part: To celebrate America's 250th, just mention the Charlie Kirk Show when you call Noble Gold, and they'll send you a free 10-ounce silver bar when you open a new qualified account.
00:53:02.000One of the reasons that I agreed to do the interview is because.
00:53:07.000My own audience has had many questions about this since I began discussing these lunatics online, essentially.
00:53:15.000And that's what I consider them to be.
00:53:18.000And I thought that maybe if they heard a lot of what I had heard, that they would kind of understand my thought process and how I got to some of these inductions.
00:53:26.000And so I'd like to start by going all the way back.
00:53:28.000And maybe you can tell us actually what the relationship was between Candace Owens and Charlie Kirk.
00:54:33.000If you go back far enough, I mean, that's why I put out that tweet basically saying, you know, Candace, your central foundational lie is that you and Charlie were friends.
00:55:30.000So she was, you know, Charlie offered her a job basically right on meeting her, kind of saw that she was somebody that could help Turning Point, help the movement, in his opinion.
00:55:41.000And then they, you know, she explodes onto the scene.
00:55:44.000You know, Kanye had that tweet where it's like, I like the way Candace Owens thinks.
00:55:48.000And it was kind of like a rocket ship, right?
00:55:51.000And then they had, but she became more and more difficult to work with, more and more issues with the team.
00:56:19.000I've definitely heard complaints from people who have worked with her.
00:56:21.000Yeah, and that continued on after when we started working with her later on.
00:56:25.000Just, you know, I think she canceled an event.
00:56:29.000With us and our event team still tells this story, you know, like the day before, and we had to scramble to get it replaced because, you know, she ended up in like France with Kanye or something the next day.
00:56:41.000Um, and so, so, anyways, the point is that it was just an ongoing kind of growing frustration.
00:56:48.000And then she had that event where she basically said Hitler was great if he just would have stayed, you know, in uh, Germany, stayed in Germany, which you know, there's a lot of now to be fair and charitable here.
00:57:02.000Right, just to be as unbiased as possible.
00:57:05.000I went, I did go back and review that clip, uh, as that seemed like it was the turning point for turning point was that actual clip.
00:57:14.000Sure, uh, it didn't seem to me that, um, she wasn't actually trying to make any sort of like apologetics for Hitler, but rather she was trying to make a comparison to nationalism and saying that as a nationalist, she thought he did a good job.
00:58:35.000And, but, you know, Charlie, being a gentleman, wanted to make sure that the transition happened in a, uh, I guess you would say, like, a kind of a soft landing sort of way.
00:58:45.000Tyler Boyer helped her start Blexit and file the paperwork.
00:58:49.000I think the original paperwork was filed at Tyler's house at the time, is the story I've heard, but who knows the details.
00:58:57.000And, you know, provided her with some donor money and donor contacts, and there were some issues there as well.
00:59:06.000You know, anyways, the point is there was a lot of, I think, hurt feelings.
00:59:10.000It didn't end well, but Charlie's always a guy that is willing to sort of let bygones be bygones.
00:59:15.000He was always focused on the greater mission, the movement.
00:59:19.000It was not a coalition builder, right?
00:59:21.000Yeah, it's a coalition builder, and he wouldn't focus on internet feuds.
00:59:26.000One of the reasons that we were probably slow to respond to some of this stuff is because we were trying to emulate what Charlie would do, which was he would all he, I mean, people would attack him all the time, and he would just kind of like be like, hey, we're going to rise above it.
00:59:40.000We're going to be, we're going to keep doing good work, and that's the way, that's the way forward.
00:59:44.000And I mean, eventually, at some point, it becomes impossible to do that, right?
00:59:47.000Um, it's in this instance, it's so it's genuinely sad in that I think she and others were able to.
00:59:53.000Take advantage of Charlie's own goodness as a person.
00:59:56.000That if he has differences with someone, he's usually going to operate privately.
01:00:03.000I mean, we know plenty of other cases where Charlie had drama with donors and he wouldn't even necessarily share it with other people in the organization because he wasn't a guy who was just spewing out his problems, his beefs, his concerns, his feuds.
01:00:23.000Well, these things would be essentially counterintuitive.
01:00:26.000If you're trying to have this massive reach of coalition building for the purpose of winning elections, and nobody takes away from Charlie Kirk or Turning Point USA that they likely assisted a great deal in Trump's election, which means that this coalition building that they did actually worked quite well.
01:00:46.000So I don't think that there's any, you know, anybody's disputing any of that.
01:00:49.000The main question just becomes this one of the kind of landing pad for these people is they start with the assumption that Candace Owens.
01:02:13.000And so, yeah, they were not in any way, shape, or form friends in any traditional sense.
01:02:18.000But I think what would happen was, for example, I would have to have the hard conversations with Candace.
01:02:26.000So that would fall to me or Justin on the team saying, hey, you can't speak at our events because you've been like juice burgering too much.
01:02:34.000You know, and then you'd talk with George and all this stuff, and he would send her like a nice text about, Hey, I see you know, attendance at Catholic churches is going up, right?
01:02:45.000So that was kind of basically the way the relationship worked.
01:02:51.000I did actually invite her to the memorial, but she didn't come.
01:02:55.000I invited her and George not to speak, but to attend.
01:02:59.000And that was before everything got really crazy.
01:03:02.000But I will tell you, Charlie, this is another proof point.
01:03:06.000Charlie, she called at some point, I believe it was February 2024.
01:03:11.000Things were going bad with Daily Wire, and she needed her own PR.
01:03:15.000And Charlie said, Andrew, you need to.
01:03:18.000To do this and help Candace, I was like, I don't know about that.
01:03:21.000I have some misgivings, some pretty serious misgivings.
01:03:25.000And he was like, you know, he wanted me to keep her, you know, close to help protect the organization, you know, and that was one of his strategies.
01:03:34.000And so, and I hate sharing this stuff because I like to keep Charlie's private stuff private.
01:03:39.000But like when it, when it, you are constantly confronted with these allegations, at some point, you just, what do you, you're backed against the wall.
01:03:54.000That video you mentioned where I kind of have a funny look on my face, that's happening where Candace was on her way out of the wire and he was siding with her.
01:04:02.000And I was telling him, Charlie, I don't think Candace has gone beyond the pale yet, but I think eventually she will.
01:06:32.000Again, reminding you in the audience, I was one of the people tasked with sort of, you know, being her point of contact with the org for a number of years.
01:06:43.000And, um, I, so, you know, when everything happened initially, you're sort of, it feels like the whole slate is wiped clean.
01:07:54.000And, you know, what I think the, I think that we stopped communication in October because it just became extraordinarily, Clear that this was heading in a terrible direction and she was no longer operating in good faith.
01:08:10.000But I remember one conversation, it was probably like five or six days after.
01:09:10.000I don't know if he had appeared on that.
01:09:11.000I think he was actually going to show up the next day on the Tuesday because it went JD, the Daily Wire guys, Glenn Beck, Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson.
01:09:53.000This would come up in conversation, and everyone would say.
01:09:56.000We all just knew if something happened to Charlie that Erica would take over, but we didn't think that hard about it because we just kind of assumed Charlie was going to be with us for the next 56 years.
01:10:04.000But at that point, I told her before it was public information, you know, Erica, I think, is going to take over.
01:10:12.000And, you know, she's very conservative.
01:11:50.000To be fair here, I'm going to try to keep the speculation to a minimum, as people are often always speculating about other people's motivations.
01:12:25.000That it was immediately on her mind by extension.
01:12:28.000And then I, yeah, and so, you know, I remember the first time she mentioned me on her show, and I go, and I, Experienced the wave of like comments and you know searches, and I can actually see it because you know immediately afterwards, we took steps to protect my family's personal information online.
01:12:47.000So we had we had like a company that you know helps with privacy and stuff like that.
01:12:51.000And I just actually got the year in review kind of like you know report, and it shows this huge spike in early October.
01:12:59.000But I think the first time she people trying to get people trying to access private stuff and doing all these like weird searches on you or whatever, and so I.
01:13:08.000I remember, I don't know if it was late September or early October, but I text her.
01:13:11.000I go, Did you just bring me up on the show?
01:13:29.000And even some of the tweets that are texts, group chats, texts that she shared, you know, we're being supportive and we're being in good faith and we're proceeding on as though, like, like, We can work together and things can be harmonious in some way, shape, or form.
01:13:46.000And again, we didn't want her to turn on the org like she did to Daily Wire.
01:13:49.000So we were always had that in the back of our heads.
01:16:08.000Then JD Vance takes all of us back down on Air Force to Phoenix, which was like, I still, he still has my so much appreciation and gratitude I extend to him for that gesture.
01:16:36.000Like, I'm a, I'm not one to really show emotion in public, but that day I just couldn't help it.
01:16:41.000And we were reading this tribute to Charlie, and I kind of just lost it on air.
01:16:47.000Then JD flies us back down to Phoenix.
01:16:51.000And then on Friday, we all, all the team got together and we were like, we really want to do the show and just remember Charlie.
01:16:58.000And that was just like a really heavy day.
01:17:01.000And I remember Friday night, Erica, that's when she gave her first speech.
01:17:07.000Actually, right behind where Blake is sitting right there is where we set up just a.
01:17:11.000Podium, a podium lectern, and she gave that speech.
01:17:15.000That was, um, it just felt like the whole world needed to hear from us somehow.
01:17:21.000That was just this like collective feeling.
01:17:23.000Well, so let's, um, let's back up a little bit here, too.
01:17:27.000Again, it is completely fair to say that this environment that you find yourself in, besides the fact that everybody, of course, is, uh, is sad, depressed, everything else because, um, Charlie is assassinated.
01:19:21.000And remember, YRefi doesn't care what your credit score is.
01:19:24.000Just go to YRefi.com and tell them your friend Andrew sent you.
01:19:30.000So, is it fair to say then that you guys were leaning very heavily towards friends and influencers to help you guys get on track and figure out where you were going and what you were doing?
01:19:56.000So, in a way, some of these influencers that you are contacting.
01:20:01.000To kind of help you get through a very dark time in Turning Point's history, the darkest time in Turning Point's history.
01:20:07.000And then one of them used this to their advantage to later leak these various messages and this type of thing in order to utilize that against Turning Point.
01:20:29.000I've seen some horrible things, but it seems overtly diabolical to take advantage.
01:20:35.000When it's the case that there's absolute chaos and emotional turmoil in order to integrate yourself into that to later be used for the purposes of profiteering and to, quote, burn down this organization.
01:21:09.000And if you think that that's fair to say, were there other creators that came in to support you who you never thought in a million years would have?
01:21:21.000You know, I mean, I try and keep things private.
01:21:26.000Like, I genuinely, there's a part of me that's so disgusted I have to discuss any of this stuff because my nature is to, you know, use discretion and, and, Keep private conversations, phone calls private, right?
01:21:41.000But yeah, there was absolutely a bunch of people that, you know, from the wider movement, you know, Turning Point had a lot of connections and still does, obviously, but with a lot of people, right?
01:21:53.000There were some people like yourself that we weren't connected with, or, you know, you insert name here that we're not really close to.
01:21:59.000But a lot of those people came out of the woodwork and just reached out and wanted to help and have continued to do so, actually, which is one of the, you know, people often ask, Blake and I, like, how did you get through this?
01:22:36.000But thirdly, it was the larger community rallying around us and continues to.
01:22:41.000And despite the attacks, that's what's been actually pretty encouraging.
01:22:44.000There's a lot of people out there that are sane that don't.
01:22:49.000You know, maybe they haven't gotten into the fray, but they have our backs, or maybe they have gotten loud, you know, but the people I wouldn't have expected.
01:23:27.000He was really, really hands on, certainly, but he also had it set up in such a way that, like, if he had to go travel, do these tours, that, like, you know, the people he put in positions.
01:23:38.000Charlie was a supremely talented manager in the sense of being involved in everything, but not micromanaging everything because he recognized that was impossible.
01:23:51.000So, then isn't it unrealistic the expectation that while all this chaos is going on and emotional turmoil, as TPUSA is trying to find its legs again while all this is happening, isn't it an unrealistic expectation that everybody's going to say all of the proper things?
01:24:08.000They're going to do all the proper things.
01:24:09.000They're going to have the best foot forward with every public image event.
01:24:14.000Doesn't that seem unrealistic on its face?
01:24:35.000Because, you know, one of the things about Turning Point when Charlie was with us was, you know, it's like I had the title of spokesman, but Charlie was the spokesman, really.
01:25:34.000Charlie, I don't know the threshold, but it was like a thousand bucks or like 500 bucks or something.
01:25:39.000If there was an expense going out the door that was over, and it was like around that, but like 500 to a thousand bucks, he had to review it first.
01:25:48.000Charlie knew where all the money of the org was going all the time.
01:26:03.000There was an episode maybe a month ago or so where Candace ran with the idea that Tyler had like progressively replaced everyone at Turning Point to turn this evangelical org into a Mormon mafia.
01:26:15.000And every single person she named as part of this Mormon mafia had been at Turning Point longer than Candace had been.
01:26:22.000That, you know, okay, yeah, our camera guy who was Mormon took your headshot when you came here.
01:26:47.000It wasn't some like untoward thing where he's trying to hunt down, you know, people that are, you know, I guess laundering the money or something, you know.
01:26:55.000So it just many things like that have been misconstrued, portrayed wrongly, and just with like so little grace or understanding or credit to Charlie for actually knowing how to run an organization.
01:27:09.000So essentially, disgruntled former employee gets upset.
01:27:29.000We're going to fast forward to when these attacks really began to escalate, especially from the various people all over the internet.
01:27:37.000Many of these people who I've looked into have been at this for many years, attacking various organizations, attacking various content creators.
01:27:46.000Anybody who essentially doesn't go along with their.
01:27:49.000Whatever it is that they believe, you know, this month they're going to be ruthlessly attacked.
01:27:54.000You had mentioned earlier, before we started my end of the questioning, that TPUSA really didn't have any sort of online defense mechanism from this type of thing, nor was it expected, obviously.
01:28:07.000Could you dive into that a little bit more?
01:28:10.000What do you mean, like an online defense mechanism?
01:28:16.000Sorry, just be a little bit more specific.
01:28:22.000He stayed away from kind of the online drama sphere.
01:28:26.000He stayed away from that type of thing.
01:28:28.000So, when these attacks escalated, were you just kind of caught by surprise that this was even going on because it wasn't a thing that TPUSA traditionally wanted to do?
01:28:38.000Yeah, we were definitely not geared, probably, I would say, to fight that type of war.
01:28:44.000Certainly, the unceasing nature of it because Turning Point had been attacked before.
01:28:48.000Charlie had been in the Southwest, though.
01:28:50.000By the left, or by more, you might say, more moderate.
01:28:53.000Well, I don't even want to say more moderate factions of the right.
01:28:55.000We had the Griper War way in the past, and those guys would go after Charlie.
01:28:58.000And sometimes you'd get, I mean, we'd been through a few rounds of people trying to say Charlie was anti Semitic, and I think that usually had some sort of factional struggle to it.
01:29:09.000And so he'd been attacked before, but I think what was special about this one is Charlie had never been the subject of conspiracy theories before.
01:29:18.000Which, by the way, is you're seeing with the Lindsey Clancy stuff, it's like there's no reasoning with some of this stuff.
01:29:22.000Yeah, and you're just like blown away at the, I think you called it the fallacy of the gap.
01:29:27.000Where people just like fill in the gap, like evidence, yeah, it's completely new.
01:29:30.000It's the evidence that the gap is coming in.
01:29:33.000When we say we've never been faced with conspiracy theories, a few natures of that is if someone, okay, if someone calls Charlie an anti Semite or says he's bad or say he's a racist or whatever, even if it's an unfair attack, it has a certain concreteness and substance to it that you can engage with once or twice and it can't really just go forever and ever.
01:29:52.000It's like a one off thing you respond to it or you don't, it is a successful attack or it fails, whatever, move on.
01:29:59.000But what we never had was, when I say we never had a conspiracy theory, we never had one of these things that they truly can just decide to push endlessly.
01:30:09.000Oh, it was like they'd come up with something new almost every day.
01:30:12.000You're like, how the hell did you get like the evidence of the gaps fallacy?
01:30:38.000One of the dangers, one of the major dangers of using that sort of fallacious thinking.
01:30:43.000Because it's not just fallacious argumentation, it's a fallacious form of thinking.
01:30:47.000You just shouldn't think in patterns that way.
01:30:49.000It's because it's heads you win, and then, you know, or heads I win, tails you lose, right?
01:30:55.000So the idea here is either you have to spend all of your time endlessly addressing those things, or you don't bother addressing them, and then your silence is an admittance, right?
01:31:15.000And if you don't address it, that's bad.
01:31:18.000So ultimately, that's why the evidence of the gaps is a fallacious form of thinking.
01:31:24.000Now, it's self destructive, ultimately, because people come to absurd conclusions.
01:31:28.000But while somebody's being victimized through that methodology or being attacked by that methodology, it's very hard to defend against it because either you have to waste endless amounts of time trying to defend yourself from the attack, or it is the case that if you're silent about the attack because it has no merit, that then your silence is an admittance of said attack, right?
01:32:11.000Also, we were trying to keep up with this explosive growth of the org and all these kids that want to start chapters.
01:32:19.000We had real, and we were still doing the tour in the fall tour to pay tribute to Charlie.
01:32:23.000Which went extraordinarily well, and all that was great, but it was like we had real stuff to do, you know?
01:32:29.000And so you're faced with the, you know, do you, you know, I kind of, I'm kind of reminded of Michael Knowles while he turned down, you know, doing your debate, moderating your debate.
01:32:41.000It was, he was sort of saying, like, I don't choose to engage this.
01:32:44.000Now, you can disagree with that logic, but there was a part of us that were kind of going, like, this is so absurd and it's so insulting that I choose not to sort of like even engage it because.
01:33:12.000And I think the other thing that was interesting about this time is that people assumed that what Candace was saying about her relationship to Charlie and her proximity to the org was actually true.
01:33:21.000They were also assuming she was a conservative.
01:33:23.000And I think that that has been proved, both of which have been, I think, proven untrue.
01:34:28.000When, you know, we, Turning Point took over Blexit, you know, at some point.
01:34:33.000And I think Charlie, again, Charlie was glass half full.
01:34:37.000Charlie was always trying to do things that were useful for the movement.
01:34:41.000And Charlie was always like very bullish on, Outreach to minority urban communities and thought that with turning point organizational might behind it, Blexit could turn into something really powerful.
01:34:55.000And it ended up being the wrong bet in that direction for many reasons.
01:35:00.000But so Charlie was always looking to the future, always trying to build.
01:35:04.000And that's one of the things I love about him.
01:35:06.000But ultimately, in this instance, it was a massive backfire.
01:35:42.000Nothing has stopped from what we did while Charlie was with us, of course.
01:35:46.000So, we just had Chapter Leader Summit last month.
01:35:50.000And that was twice as big, um, twice as big as the 2024 chapter, even more than twice as big.
01:35:56.000It was massive, massive, thousands of people.
01:36:00.000These are all young people, all people involved with chapters, all people who are really engaged with Charlie's message, really inspired by him.
01:36:33.000Everything that Turning Point has done or did while Charlie was with us continues to the extent that the outpouring of love and revival and support happened after the shooting.
01:36:48.000Turning Point's doing its best to harness that for the good of the country, for the good of the movement, for the good of the Christian faith, all of those things.
01:39:56.000I want to make sure that's all on the C3 side, but that doesn't count all of the vision that Charlie had, like on actual chasing ballots.
01:40:03.000And so think about like turning point action.
01:40:06.000We're light years ahead of where we were in 2024 as far as our ballot chase program.
01:40:11.000So we call that Chase the Vote, where we hire actual full time employees.
01:40:16.000And now we've launched it in three different states.
01:40:17.000We're in Arizona, Nevada, and New Hampshire.
01:40:21.000So we're building the red wall, which would make it very hard.
01:40:24.000Even if in 2028, the Democrats sweep the blue wall, they couldn't win a national race if we hold the South and we add New Hampshire, Nevada, and Arizona.
01:40:55.000That's only the minor part of that job.
01:40:57.000I always saw TPUSA as a charity for that, just to make sure we don't have anything that I'd said.
01:41:04.000Yeah, but that's the mission that people support more than anything.
01:41:08.000Can I just ask a last question before I let you guys go?
01:41:11.000Can you give me your word and commitment to this chat who's watching and the many, many thousands who will be watching this later that you will commit to stopping the left?
01:41:23.000You'll do everything in your power to stop the left.
01:41:28.000Well, I just think it's a bizarre question because, to the extent that people say they're not answering every single bizarre theory and question we have, it's because our priority always is combating the left.
01:41:41.000So here's our vision we want young people to be able to get married, to have babies, to own a home, to experience the American dream in an affordable way and not have to go die in some foreign war and to love their country, to believe in it.
01:41:55.000We want to restore the social compact.
01:41:57.000We want, we have a vision for young people that will buy in and have skin in the game in America.
01:42:03.000That is like fundamentally the vision of Turning Point.
01:42:06.000And in order to do that, yes, you must defeat the left because the ideals will kill and destroy this civilization, not only America, but Western civilization.
01:42:29.000Like, we don't exist to just have, oh, endless drip drip revelations in whatever soap opera thing that has nothing to do with the next election, that has nothing to do with the actual.
01:42:41.000Lives of American young people or American families.
01:42:57.000No black pilling and be a happy warrior.
01:43:00.000And so, listen, we're going to keep doing what we do as best as we can.
01:43:04.000And, you know, we ask for people to not believe the lies, to believe in what Charlie built and, you know, have our back because we have this country's back.
01:43:23.000Blasted back into my brain a line Charlie had in one of our telegrams where he was just, I think he just said, I will never stop wanting to own the libs.
01:43:33.000Yeah, because, yeah, well, I have much I could say.
01:43:36.000Well, gentlemen, I appreciate your time and allowing me to ask these questions.
01:43:40.000I know that we're constrained a bit by time.
01:43:43.000It was very kind of you to take a little bit of extra time for this chat.
01:43:46.000And I hope both of you have a wonderful day.
01:43:49.000Likewise, thank you for taking the time letting us ask about your debate.