The Charlie Kirk Show - The Surprising Advantage of a Narrow GOP Majority with Mark Meadows and Gabriel Finochio

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, Mark Meadows joins us.

00:00:02.000 He says something that has really made people confused.

00:00:08.000 Do we want to win by less or win by more?

00:00:11.000 Mark Meadows probes this.

00:00:13.000 I do my best to explain it, but then we have Matt Gates coming on the program later in the week to really build out this argument.

00:00:18.000 And then Gabriel Finocchio talks about how wokeism has infected the American church.

00:00:24.000 If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA and our phenomenal work that we are doing on high school and college campuses across America, go to tpusa.com.

00:00:34.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:37.000 At Turning Point USA, we are leading the charge to educate the next generation about America, the Declaration, the Constitution, freedom, liberty, and pushing back against the radical left.

00:00:47.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:49.000 And if you want to support Turning Point USA and get my latest book, go to tpusa.com slash book.

00:00:55.000 That is tpusa.com slash book.

00:00:59.000 Buckle up, everybody, here.

00:01:00.000 We go.

00:01:01.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:01:03.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:01:05.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:08.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:12.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:13.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:14.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:22.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:31.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:34.000 Brought to you by Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage.

00:01:37.000 For personalized loan services, you can count on.

00:01:39.000 Go to andrewandtodd.com, the wonderfulandrewandtodd.com.

00:01:46.000 Welcome, everybody.

00:01:47.000 Email is freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:01:49.000 Emails are flooding in, and you agree that this is one of the most bizarre legislative announcements we've ever seen.

00:01:58.000 And I say this as 100% pro-life, unapologetically pro-life, wanting to end abortion completely and totally, except for the exception of the life of the mother and other medical extenuating circumstances.

00:02:10.000 But why we're introducing a federal bill 55 days out from an election while it just got kicked down to the states would do nothing more than excite the Democrat base.

00:02:21.000 That's all it does.

00:02:22.000 It's not about abortion.

00:02:24.000 You don't have the votes to even introduce this into committee.

00:02:27.000 And you do this at the most fragile political moment when MAGA candidates need the most help.

00:02:32.000 And I say this again, I just want to reemphasize the pro-life credentials because people are going to email us otherwise if I don't do this.

00:02:39.000 If this election is just about abortion, we are not going to have a red wave.

00:02:45.000 It could be partially about life.

00:02:47.000 It could be about many other things.

00:02:48.000 But we need a broad-based coalition.

00:02:51.000 I said this before.

00:02:52.000 The country is not nearly as pro-life as I wish it was.

00:02:56.000 We're going to work on that.

00:02:57.000 We're going to have cultural deals, educational.

00:03:00.000 We're going to push forward.

00:03:00.000 We're going to have to convince people, but we have 55 days.

00:03:03.000 You think we're going to convince people on the issue of abortion in 55 days?

00:03:06.000 27 days out from ballots.

00:03:08.000 Feels like a MAGA sabotage campaign is what it feels like.

00:03:11.000 Joining us right now is one of the smartest people in the Make America Great Again movement, Mark Meadows, great American patriot.

00:03:18.000 Mark, welcome back to the program.

00:03:20.000 It's great to be back with you, Charlie.

00:03:22.000 And, you know, it's interesting.

00:03:24.000 You have this unbelievable podcast.

00:03:27.000 People are streaming it.

00:03:28.000 They're listening to you.

00:03:30.000 But I can remember a Charlie Kirk that actually did the homework sitting in the back row of an oversight committee many years ago when I was serving in Congress.

00:03:40.000 You were fighting the fight back then.

00:03:42.000 So thank you for staying in the fight.

00:03:45.000 And we need to win not only this November, but we have to really bring the authentic solutions that you were fighting for back then front, home, and center today.

00:03:56.000 And I'm glad to join you.

00:03:58.000 Thank you.

00:03:58.000 I remember that committee.

00:03:59.000 It was all about government overreach and federal bureaucracies that were out of control.

00:04:03.000 And when I had spare time, I used to just kind of go sit in these committee meetings and you just learn a lot.

00:04:08.000 So, actually, I want to start with that, Mark. 0.98

00:04:09.000 One of the things that I think Republicans need to pledge to their voters is starting in January, if we take power, is a church and pike committee equivalent to oversee the abuse of the IRS, especially and federal law enforcement. 0.99

00:04:23.000 I mean, you served in Congress. 1.00

00:04:24.000 You know how this works.

00:04:26.000 Talk about what it's like to retake a majority from the Democrats and how we need to act with urgency, but also focus on things that matter because we might have some bandwidth issues.

00:04:37.000 We might not be able to take on every issue.

00:04:39.000 Do you agree that IRS oversight and government overreach is something that this new Republican Congress, if we win back, which I think we will, is something we should focus on?

00:04:49.000 Well, I do think we'll win it back.

00:04:50.000 It is not only what we have to focus on, but we have to focus on it in the first 100 days, Charlie.

00:04:56.000 Here's the interesting thing: you don't have a honeymoon period when you take over in the midterm.

00:05:02.000 And many of the members of Congress that have been serving over the last few years, they've never been in the majority.

00:05:09.000 And so what all of a sudden happens is the committee staffs change.

00:05:14.000 You go from having one-third the committee size to having two-thirds of the budget for committee staff.

00:05:22.000 And so sometimes what happens is a Democrat staffer just takes off their hat and puts on a Republican hat.

00:05:28.000 We don't need to be doing that.

00:05:30.000 What we are doing, I know some of the work we're doing is trying to provide good staffers there.

00:05:35.000 But here's the, you mentioned one other key point, a church commission kind of approach to oversight.

00:05:41.000 Russ Vote's working on some of those outlines already.

00:05:45.000 We're trying to make sure that the members of Congress have the tools together, but they need two things.

00:05:51.000 They need the tools, but the other thing is they need the courage.

00:05:54.000 If they think they're going to come to Washington, D.C., and the swamp is all of a sudden going to drain by itself.

00:06:00.000 It's never happened before.

00:06:02.000 Even Donald Trump, when he was working hard to drain the swamp, as you and I both know, what was happening is he was getting pushback within the administration.

00:06:12.000 They will see that.

00:06:13.000 We're electing some great people. 0.55

00:06:15.000 I think it will be a number of people coming in with, I don't know that I see a huge red wave, but I certainly see a red majority.

00:06:25.000 And what people want are members that are committed to their constituents back home.

00:06:30.000 I think, Charlie, you would agree with me.

00:06:32.000 We don't want them committed to you or me or anything else.

00:06:36.000 We want them committed to the American people.

00:06:38.000 And if they'll represent their district instead of special interests here in Washington, D.C., it'll go well.

00:06:44.000 And also, it's exciting the work you're doing at the Conservative Partnership Institute with Jim DeMint.

00:06:44.000 I think that's right.

00:06:50.000 I'm very hopeful because I think there's now an infrastructure, and Russ Vote is doing this, that will be able to help shepherd this new Congress to make the appropriate decisions, especially when it comes to oversight.

00:07:01.000 We got Jim Jordan, who obviously is one of your closest friends, who I think is going to be probably one of the most important people in the country coming up in the next couple of years.

00:07:10.000 But can you talk about Pelosi started this January 6th committee and the way it was founded was awful and terrible.

00:07:16.000 But do you think it's a good idea, Mark, to start a special committee on, let's say, IRS oversight, not just have it be part of oversight, but actually start its own chartered committee to publish a report that doesn't happen very often, right?

00:07:30.000 That happened, I think, with Major League Baseball, maybe after 9-11, JFK assassination.

00:07:36.000 Do you think that's a good idea to have a spin-off committee to have oversight of these federal bureaucracies?

00:07:44.000 Without a doubt.

00:07:45.000 And I think if the leadership and the Republican side of the House, assuming that they take over, are willing to spend the kind of dollars, they could spend a fraction of what's been spent on the January 6th committee and actually make a real impact.

00:08:00.000 But if they're laser focused on the IRS, you know, listen, anybody who sees that they've just passed this and they're going to hire 87,000 new IRS agents.

00:08:12.000 Listen, it's not about just going after the wealthy.

00:08:15.000 It's going after the people that are tuned in right now.

00:08:17.000 That's exactly.

00:08:18.000 And candidly, every single aspect of your life will start to be under a microscope.

00:08:24.000 And so I think it's time that we turn the microscope on these agencies and say that you're accountable to the American people and having a committee that does exactly that.

00:08:34.000 Listen, for every Jim Jordan, we have a number of members who are not.

00:08:39.000 And I'm saying that nicely without calling out any names, but I could give you a list of names.

00:08:45.000 But here's the thing that we need.

00:08:46.000 We need 10 more Jim Jordans out there.

00:08:49.000 We need people who are laser focused on a particular thing.

00:08:53.000 Instead of everything defaulting back and saying, well, let Jim Jordan take the lead.

00:08:58.000 Hopefully we can grow a group of members of Congress who are willing to do that.

00:09:02.000 I know I met with a few members earlier today, actually, where I was saying, you got to be ready for the majority.

00:09:10.000 It's going to switch immediately and you can't wait until January 3rd.

00:09:14.000 You need to be on November 9th, planning out exactly what you're doing and hit the ground running the minute you're sworn in.

00:09:22.000 No, I think that's really smart.

00:09:23.000 And I like Byron Donald's from Florida.

00:09:25.000 I think he's great.

00:09:26.000 I think we have a new leadership class that is coming in.

00:09:30.000 But the Uniparty, Mark, as you know, they're not going to want to disrupt too much.

00:09:34.000 I do think, though, that IRS oversight might be a good place of agreement with leadership.

00:09:40.000 I don't even, do you agree that that might be a good place?

00:09:43.000 I mean, there's other topics they don't want to talk on, but maybe that's a place where we could start.

00:09:48.000 One minute and then we have a break.

00:09:50.000 Yeah, for sure.

00:09:51.000 They could start there.

00:09:52.000 They could do it.

00:09:53.000 I think that whoever the speaker may be would follow in and be able to put together a team there.

00:10:00.000 But really, it's about giving them the resources and the ability to actually do real oversight.

00:10:06.000 We can't have these fake committees that actually supposedly are going to look into it and just put forth a report.

00:10:13.000 It's got to be real.

00:10:14.000 And hopefully we'll see that.

00:10:15.000 And I think we can work with leadership on that.

00:10:17.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:10:18.000 The church and pike committees were bold. 0.99

00:10:20.000 They were bipartisan. 1.00

00:10:21.000 I don't think we're going to get bipartisan right now, but they had a huge impact on revealing some very treacherous practices and behavior by federal intelligence and federal law enforcement, COINTELPRO, all sorts of different types of Operation Mockingbird.

00:10:39.000 We know there's treacherous behavior happening at the IRS.

00:10:42.000 We get emails here, Mark, of conservatives, private emails.

00:10:45.000 The audits have already begun.

00:10:46.000 The IRS is on March.

00:10:48.000 Oh, sure.

00:10:48.000 They're doing their big blitz creek.

00:10:50.000 And so this is something that they have to realize, the weaponization of the IRS against normal, everyday people, 87,000 new IRS agents.

00:10:58.000 That's the entire Oklahoma sooner stadium of new IRS agents.

00:11:02.000 Mark, tell our audience again about the book you wrote so how people can support you.

00:11:07.000 You know, it's the Chiefs chief and would love for anybody who wants to get a view of what happened in the White House during the Trump administration and really some of the finer points of Donald Trump and how he was able to accomplish so much.

00:11:23.000 Would love for them to do that.

00:11:24.000 But the more important thing than going out and getting that, Charlie, I want to come back to one other thing.

00:11:29.000 If they're tuned in right now, when Congress, when we take over, and I say we, when the conservatives take over Congress this fall, the House in particular, they need to be tuned into you listening because we don't have a honeymoon time.

00:11:45.000 And the minute that they get sworn in, they need to be lighting up the switchboards and saying, We demand action right now, whether it's a church commission oversight type of format for the IRS or anything else.

00:12:00.000 It is time to get to work.

00:12:02.000 We don't have time to waste. 1.00

00:12:04.000 We can have a Jordan committee.

00:12:05.000 It will go down in history of a one-year investigation, comprehensive, and you could pick three agencies, right?

00:12:13.000 You could pick FBI.

00:12:15.000 Obviously, there's plenty there.

00:12:16.000 You could pick IRS, and then you could pick maybe just DOJ more broadly.

00:12:21.000 And then you issue a report, and then you go through interviews.

00:12:23.000 You do subpoenas.

00:12:24.000 You put these people on defense the same way that they've run this January 6th committee in this public spectacle.

00:12:30.000 We have a right to know what's going on here.

00:12:32.000 Now, Mark, I want the most realistic answer possible because I've been telling our audience, once things get passed, it's hard to reverse it.

00:12:39.000 But is it realistic to say that we could get rid of these 87,000 new IRS agents?

00:12:43.000 Because they haven't technically been hired yet, right?

00:12:45.000 It's just the money that's been appropriated.

00:12:48.000 Can we get rid of this?

00:12:50.000 Yeah, we really can.

00:12:51.000 And I think it's going to be up to conservatives in the House to really be firm in this.

00:12:57.000 Listen, just a couple of days ago, Senator Lee, Senator Cruz, and Senator Scott talked about doing a continuing resolution that actually didn't come due right before Christmas and actually came due when the new Congress is sworn in.

00:13:12.000 That's the first step that we have to do: make sure that we don't fund the government with a whole lot of lame duck votes right before Christmas that gets out.

00:13:20.000 But the other is we can hold it up and basically say, here, IRS, we want the money to come to you, but perhaps it's to get rid of your old legacy computer system so that you work it more smartly and not hire a whole lot of big 87,000 and just build to the bureaucracy.

00:13:39.000 So the answer is yes, and we can do it, but we have to show courage.

00:13:43.000 Yeah, this is a really important point.

00:13:45.000 Yeah, because so what Mark is talking about here is that the current strategy in D.C. is punt till after the elections of any consequential vote.

00:13:53.000 And then as we know, there's that lame duck period because Congress doesn't get sworn into what, January 3rd or 4th or 5th or whatever it is.

00:13:58.000 That's correct.

00:13:59.000 And so then there will be this window of time from November 9th to January 3rd, which will be a feeding frenzy.

00:14:04.000 I mean, they will pass the worst stuff you could imagine because there will be no election to check and balance them for a couple years.

00:14:12.000 So what Lee and Cruz are doing, and they have the clairvoyance to see it, is like, hey, we have to make sure that we still have a constitutional check and balance because if you think Pelosi's dangerous now, wait till she has 60 days where she knows she's not going to be speaker anymore.

00:14:27.000 It will be the last days of a falling regime.

00:14:29.000 Okay, Mark, I want to ask you, though, about something.

00:14:31.000 Is it better in the interest of the America First Conservative movement to have a big majority or to have a 20 or 30 seat majority?

00:14:38.000 I know you're chuckling because this is a debate on the right.

00:14:41.000 What are your thoughts here?

00:14:42.000 Yeah.

00:14:43.000 So on the right, let me just tell you, I want a smaller majority.

00:14:46.000 I want a majority, but I want a small majority.

00:14:48.000 I appreciate the candor because not everyone's willing to say that.

00:14:51.000 Yeah.

00:14:52.000 Well, here's the deal: if you have such a large majority, what happens is the conservative voice gets really diluted and you end up with a whole lot of moderate Republicans forming the agenda.

00:15:05.000 And so I want to have the House, but I'd like to have a more modest and not an overwhelming 40, 50 seat majority.

00:15:14.000 That's a very honest answer.

00:15:16.000 And I think you're exactly right.

00:15:17.000 I think 15 to 20 seats is just perfect.

00:15:20.000 I think you would agree.

00:15:20.000 That way, you have the really good ones that are dictating the agenda.

00:15:25.000 Because if you get to 50 or 60, which I don't think is in the cards right now, I don't see the preconditions for that.

00:15:31.000 All of a sudden, you would have all these districts that would be one that you'd have to try to rewin, and then you would have people that are total moderates.

00:15:39.000 You would have like a Kinzinger-esque type legislative agenda because they'd say, well, I have to vote my district, and you'd have 35 of those people that would sway us in a very moderate direction.

00:15:48.000 Whereas if you have a 15 or 20-seat majority, then also leadership has to reflect the swing voters, which would then be the grassroots conservatives.

00:15:56.000 20 seconds, Mark.

00:15:57.000 100%.

00:15:58.000 You're 100% right.

00:15:59.000 And we don't want California and New York deciding what the agenda is for the rest of America when we have a smaller majority.

00:16:07.000 I've been saying that we're going to have a 12-seat majority, but 15 to 20 seats would be fine.

00:16:12.000 It will make a big difference, and America will win.

00:16:15.000 They'll be right within the margin of making sure that we actually get stuff done, not just win and we take over the speaker's office, and nothing consequential actually happens.

00:16:25.000 The book is the Chiefs, Chief.

00:16:26.000 Mark, great to have you on the program.

00:16:28.000 Thank you so much.

00:16:29.000 Great to be with you, Charlie.

00:16:30.000 Take care.

00:16:30.000 Thank you.

00:16:31.000 Email us, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:16:34.000 So I'm going to do my best to clarify this.

00:16:36.000 And then tomorrow we're going to have Congressman Matt Gates, who I think is the most articulate person to explain this.

00:16:41.000 Because Mark Meadows said, Hey, I actually want a smaller majority than a larger majority.

00:16:46.000 And some of you say, What are you talking about?

00:16:48.000 Don't we want the biggest majority possible?

00:16:50.000 So let me do the best I can to explain this.

00:16:52.000 And then we have a very exciting guest in just a second here, Richie Heron, who has something very important to share with you.

00:16:57.000 So let me do my best to explain this.

00:16:59.000 The larger the majority, the more Democrat districts will have been won by Republicans.

00:17:09.000 Chances are, and history is our guide in this, when Paul Ryan took the speakership, and so did John Boehner, that those districts are then occupied by people that would be called rhinos by you and I. If you get a 40 or 50 seat majority, then the decisions are made by the biggest block, otherwise known as a rhino block, because they have to vote their district, and the MAGA voice in Congress would therefore be diluted.

00:17:39.000 So by definition, if you have a 12-seat majority, therefore you have 12 more seats than Democrats, and every conservative wins their district, and then you win just enough to get the majority, by definition, conservative representation just fractionally is a higher percentage than if you were to win 40 more, and then you would get far more rhinos occupying.

00:18:05.000 Now, some of you might say, well, Charlie, wouldn't the rhinos then just vote for all the conservative stuff?

00:18:09.000 No.

00:18:10.000 Then leadership would not have to win over the conservative Make America great again, Jim Jordan Freedom Caucus base.

00:18:16.000 They would just pander to Adam Kinzinger types.

00:18:20.000 So when you have leadership elections, and I'm doing my best to explain this because Matt Gates is much more well-versed in this than I am.

00:18:29.000 When you have leadership elections, let's just use round numbers.

00:18:33.000 Let's just say it's 200 when it's not.

00:18:35.000 It's really 213 to get to a leadership position.

00:18:38.000 But let's say it's 200.

00:18:40.000 You have 200 Republicans. 0.62

00:18:42.000 About 100 of them are going to be rhino-type establishment sympathizers.

00:18:49.000 About 70 of them will be Freedom Caucus Make America Great Again, which then makes about 30 up for grabs. 0.62

00:18:57.000 So leadership has to make a decision, the establishment.

00:19:01.000 Do I go after those 30 based on their composition of are they more conservative or are they more establishment?

00:19:08.000 The more conservative they are, that dictates the legislative agenda, the committee agenda for the entire Congress.

00:19:16.000 So, if Republicans are going to win a 40 or 50 seat majority, that's good because it actually might make us in the majority for longer, but it actually will make the quality of our legislative framework, our oversight, our language, the impeachment proceedings against Majorkis and otherwise far less likely to happen.

00:19:34.000 If you want a Jim Jordan Congress, you want a 12-seat majority.

00:19:38.000 If you want an Adam Kinsinger Congress, you want a 50-seat majority.

00:19:41.000 I know that sounds paradoxical, but that's the way our system is designed and how it works.

00:19:47.000 We're going to dive deeper into that.

00:19:48.000 If you have questions about it, emails freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:19:51.000 And there's a debate on what the sweet spot number is.

00:19:54.000 Okay.

00:19:57.000 Are you like every one of us that thinks our country has gone nuts, whether it's Russia Gate, market crashes, or selling oil to China or this insane inflation?

00:20:06.000 Well, right now, you need a financial mind who understands your concerns, but at the same time, has a Christian worldview of money.

00:20:12.000 That's why you should talk to my friends at PAX Financial Group.

00:20:16.000 Look, I've given my money to PAX Financial to Manage.

00:20:18.000 If it's good enough for me, I think it's good for you.

00:20:20.000 Like all of us, they have concerns, but they also have hope.

00:20:23.000 In this market, you must have a financial person who shares your hope and at the same time can help you with biblical responsible investing, B-R-I, biblical, responsible investing.

00:20:33.000 That's why I want you to text the word Charlie to 74868.

00:20:38.000 That is Charlie to 74868 to connect with my friends at the PAX Financial Group.

00:20:44.000 Biblical responsible investing.

00:20:45.000 So take out your phone.

00:20:46.000 Just text Charlie to 74868.

00:20:49.000 That's 74868.

00:20:50.000 Text Charlie to connect with my great friends at the PAX Financial Group.

00:20:58.000 One of my favorite Instagram accounts, people text me these images all the time.

00:21:02.000 I actually don't go on Instagram, is this awesome account about woke Jesus.

00:21:07.000 So what it is, is it's kind of a obviously a joke.

00:21:11.000 It's a comedy account that's playing this idea of what would Jesus say if he was woke?

00:21:19.000 The creator is Gabriel Finocchio.

00:21:22.000 He's a great American.

00:21:24.000 And boy, does he get a lot of people in Christian Incorporated upset?

00:21:29.000 Let me just focus on one of them.

00:21:30.000 Let's focus on the last one here.

00:21:31.000 For example, it says, if you promise not to talk about abortion or LGBTQIA, I'll bring celebrities to your church. 0.95

00:21:39.000 Woke Jesus. 0.88

00:21:40.000 Deal. 1.00

00:21:41.000 One of my other favorite ones here is Jesus praying and he says, Father, please give me a blue check mark, designer clothing, endless wealth, celebrity friends, a world where abortion is safe and legal and everybody is vaxed and LGBTQIETC. 1.00

00:21:56.000 Amen and a woman. 1.00

00:21:59.000 Woke Jesus. 0.99

00:22:00.000 Gabe joins us right now.

00:22:02.000 Welcome to the program.

00:22:03.000 Hey, Charlie, how are you?

00:22:05.000 Good.

00:22:05.000 I'm doing great.

00:22:06.000 So tell us about this account that you run and then let's talk more broadly about wokeism in American Christianity.

00:22:13.000 Thanks.

00:22:14.000 Yeah.

00:22:14.000 And thanks for having me on.

00:22:16.000 Big fan of your show.

00:22:17.000 Big fan of you.

00:22:18.000 Thank you for what you're doing, what you've done.

00:22:20.000 Thank you.

00:22:21.000 And yeah, you're a hero.

00:22:23.000 So I'm not a great American, unfortunately.

00:22:26.000 I'm Canadian.

00:22:27.000 Oh, there you go.

00:22:28.000 I wish I was a great American.

00:22:29.000 Polite.

00:22:30.000 That's why.

00:22:33.000 Yeah, I just had to correct the record.

00:22:36.000 I did have loyalist ancestors who unfortunately took land up in Canada during the Revolutionary War, but I'm trying to make amends.

00:22:45.000 And so I'm not sure.

00:22:45.000 This is part of reparations.

00:22:47.000 This is part of my, this is part of my repentance representing my family, cowardly family lineage who were loyalists during the Revolutionary War.

00:22:57.000 But anyway, so yeah, the woke account was just, you know, everybody's heard of things Jesus never said, right?

00:23:06.000 And, you know, that was a big trend, you know, like a decade ago.

00:23:13.000 But with the woke tidal wave that we experienced in like 2020, I guess I was just hanging out one night.

00:23:23.000 I think I was making some music with my brother in our studio.

00:23:26.000 And I was just like, trying to kill time, really.

00:23:31.000 And then I thought, you know what?

00:23:32.000 Let's do some, let's do some like things Jesus never said things, but then we'll just like tag like, this is woke Jesus, you know, things woke Jesus would say.

00:23:44.000 And just, you know, it kind of took off.

00:23:47.000 I made, I think I made, I don't know, I probably made like 20 or 30 that night.

00:23:53.000 And then it kind of blew up and people were like, you got, this is an account, bro.

00:23:57.000 And so I just ran with it.

00:23:59.000 I just, I just, it was wind in my sails.

00:24:02.000 And I just, you know, set sail.

00:24:04.000 And yeah, now I got, you know, a few thousand people, you know.

00:24:10.000 I get it.

00:24:11.000 I get it sent to me all the time.

00:24:12.000 So, Gabriel, talk about the reaction that some of the wokeys in Christianity give you when they start to read this stuff. 0.64

00:24:18.000 Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. 0.99

00:24:21.000 It's enjoyable.

00:24:22.000 It's wonderful.

00:24:23.000 It's, you know, because it hits a nerve, right?

00:24:27.000 And that's really the point, I think, of satire.

00:24:29.000 You know, I think they say, you know, the comedians, they're hanging out with the hare, but the satirists are hunting with the hounds.

00:24:41.000 And, you know, you're basically trying to evoke a reaction.

00:24:47.000 You're trying to, you're playing upon the frustration of the self-contradictory remarks that they make and positions that they take.

00:24:57.000 And it's very, obviously, you know, it's biblical because you see the prophet Elijah, you know, mocking the prophets of Baal in the big show down on Mount Carmel and in the Old Testament.

00:25:10.000 He's mocking the prophets of Baal, you know, and they're cutting themselves and freaking out and saying, you know, where's our God?

00:25:19.000 You know, and he's like, I don't know, is your God, you know, taking a dump?

00:25:23.000 Is he on the John?

00:25:25.000 You know, like, what's he doing?

00:25:27.000 You know, and you're basically, I hope that's, you know, family-friendly, you know, commentary there.

00:25:33.000 But the idea is that he's mocking them and he's using satire and sarcasm to get his point across that the prophets of Baal are false prophets worshiping a false God.

00:25:45.000 And that's really what wokeism is.

00:25:48.000 You know, it's a false ideology, a false philosophy, a false religion, and worshiping false gods.

00:25:58.000 Why is it so attractive to institutional Christianity to embrace this wokeism, especially over the last couple of years?

00:26:06.000 Well, you know, wokeism, look, you know, we might differ on definitions here, but I really do think that wokeism is just an iteration of theological liberalism.

00:26:17.000 I don't disagree with that.

00:26:18.000 I think it, in the Christian sense, that's true.

00:26:20.000 There is a secular version of it too, but I think that's fair.

00:26:24.000 Yeah, it's just, these things come in different forms. 0.80

00:26:28.000 They're repackaged, you know, like Jehovah's Witnesses are repackaged Aryans, you know? 0.86

00:26:35.000 And so basically, you know, these things, they just morph into these things. 0.79

00:26:41.000 And each generation makes it its own, you know, and so the idea being that this woke thing, it's definitely worse than ever before.

00:26:53.000 It's certainly, you know, an extension, a logical extension and a continuance and a progress down the wrong path.

00:27:01.000 So we're definitely further down the road of secular humanism than ever before.

00:27:07.000 And wokeism is just this latest, you know, iteration.

00:27:12.000 Iteration and in, you know, along the highway to hell.

00:27:16.000 So, the way that they would define liberal theology, I'm reading from the website of the gospel coalition.

00:27:21.000 You know, them.

00:27:22.000 Oh, we love them.

00:27:24.000 Yeah, liberal theology is rooted in modern secular theories of knowledge and has moved towards participation in the work of the church as the priority for Christians at the expense of delineating theological belief, which has led to the abandonment of many Orthodox beliefs in many mainline denominations.

00:27:41.000 A really wordy way to say that we use modern secular humanism as our guide to interpret scripture.

00:27:47.000 Is that right?

00:27:50.000 Well, certainly, yeah.

00:27:51.000 You know, wokeism takes the form in religion, I would say, as theological liberalism.

00:27:58.000 Um, and in politics, it takes the form of secular humanism.

00:28:04.000 And so, you know, these are different categories, these are different uh layers in reality.

00:28:10.000 And uh, obviously, the deepest layer is religious.

00:28:12.000 You know, I like um, I think John Henry Newman uh talked about theological liberalism as being this idea that all religions are equal, you know, which was this is this is you know, he's writing in the 19th century, right?

00:28:25.000 And um, and just this notion that you know, it's it's like religious relativism, like everybody worships the same God.

00:28:34.000 You know, it's like John Henry Newman was dealing with wokeys back then, you know, it's like and he was, you know, so these aren't necessarily again, these aren't necessarily new ideas. 0.56

00:28:47.000 Um, in my opinion, I think, you know, just we've got ourselves into this cul-de-sac, right? 0.99

00:28:51.000 Where we're just circling and circling and circling.

00:28:54.000 And these ideas they never really die, you know, because we're in a cul-de-sac.

00:29:00.000 I think, um, and I think the way out is Christ. 0.82

00:29:03.000 I think the way out is Christianity ultimately.

00:29:09.000 And the truths, philosophically, you know, and politically that Christianity has really dogmatized around in our society, you know, life and liberty and property, family, you know, these truths are really the things that Christianity has preserved. 0.78

00:29:32.000 And but we need Christianity to preserve them, in my opinion.

00:29:37.000 And with the decline of Christianity, you know, we have a decline in culture. 0.93

00:29:43.000 We have a decline in society. 0.99

00:29:47.000 Hello, everybody.

00:29:48.000 Charlie Kirk here.

00:29:48.000 Super important announcement.

00:29:50.000 Look, when you swipe your credit card, you're funding liberal causes dozens and dozens of times a month.

00:29:55.000 Every time you swipe that card, you might as well do BLM, LGBT, Clinton Foundation.

00:30:00.000 But now there's a choice.

00:30:01.000 I got to know these guys.

00:30:02.000 I vetted them, checked out the technology.

00:30:04.000 I'm a partner with them.

00:30:05.000 I'm all in. 1.00

00:30:06.000 It's called Coin, C-O-I-G-N.

00:30:08.000 It's a new credit card built for conservatives.

00:30:10.000 I'm moving all my credit card activity under Coin.

00:30:13.000 And the Coin credit card is an unlimited cashback Visa credit card that is just like every other credit card you've ever owned, with one huge exception.

00:30:20.000 Every time you use the Coin card, they contribute to conservative charities that support your values.

00:30:25.000 I'm using it, and you should too.

00:30:26.000 Remember, we have to create a parallel economy, and this is a great new option.

00:30:30.000 Act now.

00:30:30.000 Go to COIGN.com right now to sign up to get a conservative coin credit card.

00:30:37.000 That's COIGN.com.

00:30:40.000 Join COIN and let's start spending right.

00:30:46.000 Gabriel, how far or how deep has the woke mind virus pathogen penetrated American Christianity?

00:30:54.000 How serious of a threat is this?

00:30:56.000 Well, I think if you look at the fact that it's taken over all the institutions, I mean, the institutions themselves have been compromised.

00:31:03.000 You know, you have, Obviously, you have universities that are compromised everywhere, Christian or not.

00:31:12.000 Many of them are just Christian in name, and they are fundamentally and substantially woke.

00:31:20.000 But so, and if you think about that, you know, you're talking about people who are still forming their brain and still forming their minds, certainly their conclusions about life, going off and being indoctrinated.

00:31:35.000 And you would know this more than I would, since your work is primarily, you know, at least substantially in education institutions.

00:31:42.000 And didn't you just write a book on this?

00:31:43.000 Yep, don't go.

00:31:44.000 Wrote a whole book on it.

00:31:44.000 Yep.

00:31:45.000 Yeah, basically, The College Scam.

00:31:46.000 It's actually right here.

00:31:47.000 So I want that.

00:31:48.000 Can you send that to me?

00:31:49.000 I'll send it to you.

00:31:50.000 Yes.

00:31:50.000 And everyone.

00:31:51.000 I want to read it.

00:31:51.000 You can get it for half off at tpusa.com/slash book.

00:31:55.000 But yes, continue.

00:31:57.000 Well, anyway, so you know, you've got the institutions, right?

00:32:01.000 The crisis in education propagating and propaganda and that.

00:32:07.000 But then you have woke capitalism, you know, and that's a big deal, Charlie.

00:32:12.000 I don't know how, you know, if people are so much aware of this, but like, you know, you have Pride Month and then all the businesses that you patronize are, you know, doing pride stuff.

00:32:24.000 And it's like lockstep, Charlie, it's lockstep with government.

00:32:28.000 So the government says this is what we do.

00:32:31.000 And then the businesses are like, yes, master.

00:32:33.000 And it's, that's, that's communism, bro.

00:32:36.000 Like, that's, that's how communist, that's, that's how it works.

00:32:40.000 But let me ask you, let me ask you, Gabriel.

00:32:42.000 So you're, you're very well networked in the Christian world and you're, you're a very well-respected pastor and well-respected speaker and thought leader.

00:32:51.000 What do kind of the cool kid pastors say when you confront them with this?

00:32:56.000 Because they usually don't talk to me.

00:33:00.000 Yeah, I mean, you do, you know, you do kind of burn bridges, really.

00:33:04.000 You know, I've turned myself into a bit of a dynamiter, you know, a bridge dynamiter.

00:33:10.000 I say, my brother builds the bridges and I blow them up.

00:33:16.000 I would say, I mean, really, you know, I look, look, at the same time, look, we, you know, we should always be, you know, as charitable as possible, right?

00:33:26.000 Jesus tells us to love our enemies.

00:33:28.000 So there is a point where, you know, we shouldn't be malicious towards people, trying to destroy them, even though we are supposed to hate evil, right?

00:33:39.000 And to hate evil.

00:33:40.000 If you love God, you must hate evil.

00:33:41.000 It's a commandment.

00:33:43.000 Yes, exactly.

00:33:44.000 So we have to be able to make the separation between people, people's intrinsic worth and dignity and the actions that they take.

00:33:54.000 Or even worse, their stated beliefs.

00:33:56.000 Actions are one thing.

00:33:57.000 Stated beliefs are completely different.

00:33:59.000 You can make a mistake, right?

00:34:00.000 You can make an action.

00:34:01.000 You could fall short.

00:34:02.000 But if you have a publicly stated evil standard, that's even worse.

00:34:05.000 Totally.

00:34:06.000 Totally.

00:34:07.000 Yeah.

00:34:07.000 When things go public, that's a big, big deal.

00:34:11.000 That's a big, big no-no.

00:34:13.000 And so, you know, in the church, you know, excommunication even happens once sin becomes public and once it becomes particularly, you know, something that is stubbornly held on to.

00:34:24.000 I think Thomas Aquinas once said that people aren't excommunicated for sin.

00:34:29.000 They're excommunicated for stubbornness, which is a great point.

00:34:32.000 It's like when, you know, if you can't receive the correction and you're stubbornly holding on to it publicly, something's got to be done.

00:34:40.000 That's great.

00:34:41.000 So the issue, I think, is that, you know, sorry, what was the question again?

00:34:48.000 I apologize.

00:34:49.000 Well, just real quick.

00:34:50.000 It was just kind of what do you, what happens when you confront the cool kid pastors with saying this is Marxism, this is bad theology.

00:34:56.000 How does that go?

00:34:56.000 Okay.

00:34:57.000 Yeah, we just have to be as reasonable as possible.

00:35:00.000 You know, if we're if we're emotional, um, you know, and you know this from debate and things like that, that uh, you you blow, you know, Chesterton once said uh that uh the problem with a quarrel is that it interrupts an argument, and so you can't make things personal.

00:35:18.000 The idea of making things personal is going to interrupt the argument, and you're trying to make an argument and you're trying to convince as many people as possible to come to the conclusion and the conviction that these things are evil.

00:35:30.000 So, we should be focused on ideas and focused on you know the heresies. 0.95

00:35:36.000 And it's it's much better to be a heresy hunter than a heretic hunter. 0.99

00:35:40.000 I think the heretic hunting is kind of you know a nasty business. 0.94

00:35:44.000 There you go, Gabriel Finocchio. 1.00

00:35:46.000 You're welcome back anytime.

00:35:47.000 Keep up the wonderful work.

00:35:48.000 Thank you.

00:35:49.000 Thanks, brother.

00:35:50.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:35:51.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:54.000 Thank you so much for listening.

00:35:56.000 God bless.

00:35:59.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 15, 2022

The Surprising Advantage of a Narrow GOP Majority with Mark Meadows and Gabriel Finochio

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript