00:00:13.000I do my best to explain it, but then we have Matt Gates coming on the program later in the week to really build out this argument.
00:00:18.000And then Gabriel Finocchio talks about how wokeism has infected the American church.
00:00:24.000If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA and our phenomenal work that we are doing on high school and college campuses across America, go to tpusa.com.
00:00:37.000At Turning Point USA, we are leading the charge to educate the next generation about America, the Declaration, the Constitution, freedom, liberty, and pushing back against the radical left.
00:01:14.000His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:22.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:49.000Emails are flooding in, and you agree that this is one of the most bizarre legislative announcements we've ever seen.
00:01:58.000And I say this as 100% pro-life, unapologetically pro-life, wanting to end abortion completely and totally, except for the exception of the life of the mother and other medical extenuating circumstances.
00:02:10.000But why we're introducing a federal bill 55 days out from an election while it just got kicked down to the states would do nothing more than excite the Democrat base.
00:02:24.000You don't have the votes to even introduce this into committee.
00:02:27.000And you do this at the most fragile political moment when MAGA candidates need the most help.
00:02:32.000And I say this again, I just want to reemphasize the pro-life credentials because people are going to email us otherwise if I don't do this.
00:02:39.000If this election is just about abortion, we are not going to have a red wave.
00:03:30.000But I can remember a Charlie Kirk that actually did the homework sitting in the back row of an oversight committee many years ago when I was serving in Congress.
00:03:40.000You were fighting the fight back then.
00:03:42.000So thank you for staying in the fight.
00:03:45.000And we need to win not only this November, but we have to really bring the authentic solutions that you were fighting for back then front, home, and center today.
00:03:59.000It was all about government overreach and federal bureaucracies that were out of control.
00:04:03.000And when I had spare time, I used to just kind of go sit in these committee meetings and you just learn a lot.
00:04:08.000So, actually, I want to start with that, Mark.
00:04:09.000One of the things that I think Republicans need to pledge to their voters is starting in January, if we take power, is a church and pike committee equivalent to oversee the abuse of the IRS, especially and federal law enforcement.
00:04:26.000Talk about what it's like to retake a majority from the Democrats and how we need to act with urgency, but also focus on things that matter because we might have some bandwidth issues.
00:04:37.000We might not be able to take on every issue.
00:04:39.000Do you agree that IRS oversight and government overreach is something that this new Republican Congress, if we win back, which I think we will, is something we should focus on?
00:06:02.000Even Donald Trump, when he was working hard to drain the swamp, as you and I both know, what was happening is he was getting pushback within the administration.
00:06:50.000I'm very hopeful because I think there's now an infrastructure, and Russ Vote is doing this, that will be able to help shepherd this new Congress to make the appropriate decisions, especially when it comes to oversight.
00:07:01.000We got Jim Jordan, who obviously is one of your closest friends, who I think is going to be probably one of the most important people in the country coming up in the next couple of years.
00:07:10.000But can you talk about Pelosi started this January 6th committee and the way it was founded was awful and terrible.
00:07:16.000But do you think it's a good idea, Mark, to start a special committee on, let's say, IRS oversight, not just have it be part of oversight, but actually start its own chartered committee to publish a report that doesn't happen very often, right?
00:07:30.000That happened, I think, with Major League Baseball, maybe after 9-11, JFK assassination.
00:07:36.000Do you think that's a good idea to have a spin-off committee to have oversight of these federal bureaucracies?
00:07:45.000And I think if the leadership and the Republican side of the House, assuming that they take over, are willing to spend the kind of dollars, they could spend a fraction of what's been spent on the January 6th committee and actually make a real impact.
00:08:00.000But if they're laser focused on the IRS, you know, listen, anybody who sees that they've just passed this and they're going to hire 87,000 new IRS agents.
00:08:12.000Listen, it's not about just going after the wealthy.
00:08:15.000It's going after the people that are tuned in right now.
00:08:18.000And candidly, every single aspect of your life will start to be under a microscope.
00:08:24.000And so I think it's time that we turn the microscope on these agencies and say that you're accountable to the American people and having a committee that does exactly that.
00:08:34.000Listen, for every Jim Jordan, we have a number of members who are not.
00:08:39.000And I'm saying that nicely without calling out any names, but I could give you a list of names.
00:10:21.000I don't think we're going to get bipartisan right now, but they had a huge impact on revealing some very treacherous practices and behavior by federal intelligence and federal law enforcement, COINTELPRO, all sorts of different types of Operation Mockingbird.
00:10:39.000We know there's treacherous behavior happening at the IRS.
00:10:42.000We get emails here, Mark, of conservatives, private emails.
00:10:50.000And so this is something that they have to realize, the weaponization of the IRS against normal, everyday people, 87,000 new IRS agents.
00:10:58.000That's the entire Oklahoma sooner stadium of new IRS agents.
00:11:02.000Mark, tell our audience again about the book you wrote so how people can support you.
00:11:07.000You know, it's the Chiefs chief and would love for anybody who wants to get a view of what happened in the White House during the Trump administration and really some of the finer points of Donald Trump and how he was able to accomplish so much.
00:11:24.000But the more important thing than going out and getting that, Charlie, I want to come back to one other thing.
00:11:29.000If they're tuned in right now, when Congress, when we take over, and I say we, when the conservatives take over Congress this fall, the House in particular, they need to be tuned into you listening because we don't have a honeymoon time.
00:11:45.000And the minute that they get sworn in, they need to be lighting up the switchboards and saying, We demand action right now, whether it's a church commission oversight type of format for the IRS or anything else.
00:12:24.000You put these people on defense the same way that they've run this January 6th committee in this public spectacle.
00:12:30.000We have a right to know what's going on here.
00:12:32.000Now, Mark, I want the most realistic answer possible because I've been telling our audience, once things get passed, it's hard to reverse it.
00:12:39.000But is it realistic to say that we could get rid of these 87,000 new IRS agents?
00:12:43.000Because they haven't technically been hired yet, right?
00:12:45.000It's just the money that's been appropriated.
00:12:51.000And I think it's going to be up to conservatives in the House to really be firm in this.
00:12:57.000Listen, just a couple of days ago, Senator Lee, Senator Cruz, and Senator Scott talked about doing a continuing resolution that actually didn't come due right before Christmas and actually came due when the new Congress is sworn in.
00:13:12.000That's the first step that we have to do: make sure that we don't fund the government with a whole lot of lame duck votes right before Christmas that gets out.
00:13:20.000But the other is we can hold it up and basically say, here, IRS, we want the money to come to you, but perhaps it's to get rid of your old legacy computer system so that you work it more smartly and not hire a whole lot of big 87,000 and just build to the bureaucracy.
00:13:39.000So the answer is yes, and we can do it, but we have to show courage.
00:13:43.000Yeah, this is a really important point.
00:13:45.000Yeah, because so what Mark is talking about here is that the current strategy in D.C. is punt till after the elections of any consequential vote.
00:13:53.000And then as we know, there's that lame duck period because Congress doesn't get sworn into what, January 3rd or 4th or 5th or whatever it is.
00:13:59.000And so then there will be this window of time from November 9th to January 3rd, which will be a feeding frenzy.
00:14:04.000I mean, they will pass the worst stuff you could imagine because there will be no election to check and balance them for a couple years.
00:14:12.000So what Lee and Cruz are doing, and they have the clairvoyance to see it, is like, hey, we have to make sure that we still have a constitutional check and balance because if you think Pelosi's dangerous now, wait till she has 60 days where she knows she's not going to be speaker anymore.
00:14:27.000It will be the last days of a falling regime.
00:14:29.000Okay, Mark, I want to ask you, though, about something.
00:14:31.000Is it better in the interest of the America First Conservative movement to have a big majority or to have a 20 or 30 seat majority?
00:14:38.000I know you're chuckling because this is a debate on the right.
00:14:52.000Well, here's the deal: if you have such a large majority, what happens is the conservative voice gets really diluted and you end up with a whole lot of moderate Republicans forming the agenda.
00:15:05.000And so I want to have the House, but I'd like to have a more modest and not an overwhelming 40, 50 seat majority.
00:15:20.000That way, you have the really good ones that are dictating the agenda.
00:15:25.000Because if you get to 50 or 60, which I don't think is in the cards right now, I don't see the preconditions for that.
00:15:31.000All of a sudden, you would have all these districts that would be one that you'd have to try to rewin, and then you would have people that are total moderates.
00:15:39.000You would have like a Kinzinger-esque type legislative agenda because they'd say, well, I have to vote my district, and you'd have 35 of those people that would sway us in a very moderate direction.
00:15:48.000Whereas if you have a 15 or 20-seat majority, then also leadership has to reflect the swing voters, which would then be the grassroots conservatives.
00:15:59.000And we don't want California and New York deciding what the agenda is for the rest of America when we have a smaller majority.
00:16:07.000I've been saying that we're going to have a 12-seat majority, but 15 to 20 seats would be fine.
00:16:12.000It will make a big difference, and America will win.
00:16:15.000They'll be right within the margin of making sure that we actually get stuff done, not just win and we take over the speaker's office, and nothing consequential actually happens.
00:16:59.000The larger the majority, the more Democrat districts will have been won by Republicans.
00:17:09.000Chances are, and history is our guide in this, when Paul Ryan took the speakership, and so did John Boehner, that those districts are then occupied by people that would be called rhinos by you and I. If you get a 40 or 50 seat majority, then the decisions are made by the biggest block, otherwise known as a rhino block, because they have to vote their district, and the MAGA voice in Congress would therefore be diluted.
00:17:39.000So by definition, if you have a 12-seat majority, therefore you have 12 more seats than Democrats, and every conservative wins their district, and then you win just enough to get the majority, by definition, conservative representation just fractionally is a higher percentage than if you were to win 40 more, and then you would get far more rhinos occupying.
00:18:05.000Now, some of you might say, well, Charlie, wouldn't the rhinos then just vote for all the conservative stuff?
00:18:10.000Then leadership would not have to win over the conservative Make America great again, Jim Jordan Freedom Caucus base.
00:18:16.000They would just pander to Adam Kinzinger types.
00:18:20.000So when you have leadership elections, and I'm doing my best to explain this because Matt Gates is much more well-versed in this than I am.
00:18:29.000When you have leadership elections, let's just use round numbers.
00:18:33.000Let's just say it's 200 when it's not.
00:18:35.000It's really 213 to get to a leadership position.
00:18:42.000About 100 of them are going to be rhino-type establishment sympathizers.
00:18:49.000About 70 of them will be Freedom Caucus Make America Great Again, which then makes about 30 up for grabs.
00:18:57.000So leadership has to make a decision, the establishment.
00:19:01.000Do I go after those 30 based on their composition of are they more conservative or are they more establishment?
00:19:08.000The more conservative they are, that dictates the legislative agenda, the committee agenda for the entire Congress.
00:19:16.000So, if Republicans are going to win a 40 or 50 seat majority, that's good because it actually might make us in the majority for longer, but it actually will make the quality of our legislative framework, our oversight, our language, the impeachment proceedings against Majorkis and otherwise far less likely to happen.
00:19:34.000If you want a Jim Jordan Congress, you want a 12-seat majority.
00:19:38.000If you want an Adam Kinsinger Congress, you want a 50-seat majority.
00:19:41.000I know that sounds paradoxical, but that's the way our system is designed and how it works.
00:19:57.000Are you like every one of us that thinks our country has gone nuts, whether it's Russia Gate, market crashes, or selling oil to China or this insane inflation?
00:20:06.000Well, right now, you need a financial mind who understands your concerns, but at the same time, has a Christian worldview of money.
00:20:12.000That's why you should talk to my friends at PAX Financial Group.
00:20:16.000Look, I've given my money to PAX Financial to Manage.
00:20:18.000If it's good enough for me, I think it's good for you.
00:20:20.000Like all of us, they have concerns, but they also have hope.
00:20:23.000In this market, you must have a financial person who shares your hope and at the same time can help you with biblical responsible investing, B-R-I, biblical, responsible investing.
00:20:33.000That's why I want you to text the word Charlie to 74868.
00:20:38.000That is Charlie to 74868 to connect with my friends at the PAX Financial Group.
00:21:41.000One of my other favorite ones here is Jesus praying and he says, Father, please give me a blue check mark, designer clothing, endless wealth, celebrity friends, a world where abortion is safe and legal and everybody is vaxed and LGBTQIETC.
00:22:47.000This is part of my, this is part of my repentance representing my family, cowardly family lineage who were loyalists during the Revolutionary War.
00:22:57.000But anyway, so yeah, the woke account was just, you know, everybody's heard of things Jesus never said, right?
00:23:06.000And, you know, that was a big trend, you know, like a decade ago.
00:23:13.000But with the woke tidal wave that we experienced in like 2020, I guess I was just hanging out one night.
00:23:23.000I think I was making some music with my brother in our studio.
00:23:26.000And I was just like, trying to kill time, really.
00:23:32.000Let's do some, let's do some like things Jesus never said things, but then we'll just like tag like, this is woke Jesus, you know, things woke Jesus would say.
00:23:44.000And just, you know, it kind of took off.
00:23:47.000I made, I think I made, I don't know, I probably made like 20 or 30 that night.
00:23:53.000And then it kind of blew up and people were like, you got, this is an account, bro.
00:24:23.000It's, you know, because it hits a nerve, right?
00:24:27.000And that's really the point, I think, of satire.
00:24:29.000You know, I think they say, you know, the comedians, they're hanging out with the hare, but the satirists are hunting with the hounds.
00:24:41.000And, you know, you're basically trying to evoke a reaction.
00:24:47.000You're trying to, you're playing upon the frustration of the self-contradictory remarks that they make and positions that they take.
00:24:57.000And it's very, obviously, you know, it's biblical because you see the prophet Elijah, you know, mocking the prophets of Baal in the big show down on Mount Carmel and in the Old Testament.
00:25:10.000He's mocking the prophets of Baal, you know, and they're cutting themselves and freaking out and saying, you know, where's our God?
00:25:19.000You know, and he's like, I don't know, is your God, you know, taking a dump?
00:25:27.000You know, and you're basically, I hope that's, you know, family-friendly, you know, commentary there.
00:25:33.000But the idea is that he's mocking them and he's using satire and sarcasm to get his point across that the prophets of Baal are false prophets worshiping a false God.
00:25:48.000You know, it's a false ideology, a false philosophy, a false religion, and worshiping false gods.
00:25:58.000Why is it so attractive to institutional Christianity to embrace this wokeism, especially over the last couple of years?
00:26:06.000Well, you know, wokeism, look, you know, we might differ on definitions here, but I really do think that wokeism is just an iteration of theological liberalism.
00:27:24.000Yeah, liberal theology is rooted in modern secular theories of knowledge and has moved towards participation in the work of the church as the priority for Christians at the expense of delineating theological belief, which has led to the abandonment of many Orthodox beliefs in many mainline denominations.
00:27:41.000A really wordy way to say that we use modern secular humanism as our guide to interpret scripture.
00:27:51.000You know, wokeism takes the form in religion, I would say, as theological liberalism.
00:27:58.000Um, and in politics, it takes the form of secular humanism.
00:28:04.000And so, you know, these are different categories, these are different uh layers in reality.
00:28:10.000And uh, obviously, the deepest layer is religious.
00:28:12.000You know, I like um, I think John Henry Newman uh talked about theological liberalism as being this idea that all religions are equal, you know, which was this is this is you know, he's writing in the 19th century, right?
00:28:25.000And um, and just this notion that you know, it's it's like religious relativism, like everybody worships the same God.
00:28:34.000You know, it's like John Henry Newman was dealing with wokeys back then, you know, it's like and he was, you know, so these aren't necessarily again, these aren't necessarily new ideas.
00:28:47.000Um, in my opinion, I think, you know, just we've got ourselves into this cul-de-sac, right?
00:28:51.000Where we're just circling and circling and circling.
00:28:54.000And these ideas they never really die, you know, because we're in a cul-de-sac.
00:29:00.000I think, um, and I think the way out is Christ.
00:29:03.000I think the way out is Christianity ultimately.
00:29:09.000And the truths, philosophically, you know, and politically that Christianity has really dogmatized around in our society, you know, life and liberty and property, family, you know, these truths are really the things that Christianity has preserved.
00:29:32.000And but we need Christianity to preserve them, in my opinion.
00:29:37.000And with the decline of Christianity, you know, we have a decline in culture.
00:30:08.000It's a new credit card built for conservatives.
00:30:10.000I'm moving all my credit card activity under Coin.
00:30:13.000And the Coin credit card is an unlimited cashback Visa credit card that is just like every other credit card you've ever owned, with one huge exception.
00:30:20.000Every time you use the Coin card, they contribute to conservative charities that support your values.
00:30:56.000Well, I think if you look at the fact that it's taken over all the institutions, I mean, the institutions themselves have been compromised.
00:31:03.000You know, you have, Obviously, you have universities that are compromised everywhere, Christian or not.
00:31:12.000Many of them are just Christian in name, and they are fundamentally and substantially woke.
00:31:20.000But so, and if you think about that, you know, you're talking about people who are still forming their brain and still forming their minds, certainly their conclusions about life, going off and being indoctrinated.
00:31:35.000And you would know this more than I would, since your work is primarily, you know, at least substantially in education institutions.
00:31:42.000And didn't you just write a book on this?
00:31:57.000Well, anyway, so you know, you've got the institutions, right?
00:32:01.000The crisis in education propagating and propaganda and that.
00:32:07.000But then you have woke capitalism, you know, and that's a big deal, Charlie.
00:32:12.000I don't know how, you know, if people are so much aware of this, but like, you know, you have Pride Month and then all the businesses that you patronize are, you know, doing pride stuff.
00:32:24.000And it's like lockstep, Charlie, it's lockstep with government.
00:32:28.000So the government says this is what we do.
00:32:31.000And then the businesses are like, yes, master.
00:32:36.000Like, that's, that's how communist, that's, that's how it works.
00:32:40.000But let me ask you, let me ask you, Gabriel.
00:32:42.000So you're, you're very well networked in the Christian world and you're, you're a very well-respected pastor and well-respected speaker and thought leader.
00:32:51.000What do kind of the cool kid pastors say when you confront them with this?
00:32:56.000Because they usually don't talk to me.
00:33:00.000Yeah, I mean, you do, you know, you do kind of burn bridges, really.
00:33:04.000You know, I've turned myself into a bit of a dynamiter, you know, a bridge dynamiter.
00:33:10.000I say, my brother builds the bridges and I blow them up.
00:33:16.000I would say, I mean, really, you know, I look, look, at the same time, look, we, you know, we should always be, you know, as charitable as possible, right?
00:33:28.000So there is a point where, you know, we shouldn't be malicious towards people, trying to destroy them, even though we are supposed to hate evil, right?
00:34:13.000And so, you know, in the church, you know, excommunication even happens once sin becomes public and once it becomes particularly, you know, something that is stubbornly held on to.
00:34:24.000I think Thomas Aquinas once said that people aren't excommunicated for sin.
00:34:29.000They're excommunicated for stubbornness, which is a great point.
00:34:32.000It's like when, you know, if you can't receive the correction and you're stubbornly holding on to it publicly, something's got to be done.
00:34:57.000Yeah, we just have to be as reasonable as possible.
00:35:00.000You know, if we're if we're emotional, um, you know, and you know this from debate and things like that, that uh, you you blow, you know, Chesterton once said uh that uh the problem with a quarrel is that it interrupts an argument, and so you can't make things personal.
00:35:18.000The idea of making things personal is going to interrupt the argument, and you're trying to make an argument and you're trying to convince as many people as possible to come to the conclusion and the conviction that these things are evil.
00:35:30.000So, we should be focused on ideas and focused on you know the heresies.
00:35:36.000And it's it's much better to be a heresy hunter than a heretic hunter.
00:35:40.000I think the heretic hunting is kind of you know a nasty business.