The Charlie Kirk Show - The TikTok Ban: Narrowly Tailored or Trojan Horse?

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:02.000 This is Andrew Colvett, executive producer of this fine show, filling in for Charlie, who's on assignment at Cal State Fullerton, arguing with a bunch of lefty students.

00:00:10.000 Can't wait for him to tell us all about that.

00:00:12.000 Today, we go into the question of the day.

00:00:16.000 To ban TikTok or not to ban TikTok?

00:00:19.000 Is it a Trojan horse?

00:00:20.000 Is it a narrowly tailored bill that is getting everything that we said we wanted?

00:00:25.000 I discuss it and more.

00:00:26.000 We bring in two China experts to discuss what they think about the bill and why China is such an intense and existential threat to American power, both domestically and abroad.

00:00:39.000 Very important debate here.

00:00:41.000 Very, very important question.

00:00:42.000 It is the center of the political debate right now in Washington.

00:00:46.000 Don't go anywhere.

00:00:47.000 Buckle up.

00:00:47.000 Here we go.

00:00:48.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:50.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:52.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:56.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:59.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:00.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:01.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:01:03.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:08.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

00:01:09.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:18.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:22.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

00:01:32.000 Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:38.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:40.000 It's where I buy all of my gold.

00:01:42.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:47.000 So it is one of the messiest stories in the country to ban TikTok or to not ban TikTok.

00:01:56.000 It truly is something that people on the right of good faith, that people we respect, people that have very, let's just say a track record of challenging the establishment, of challenging authority like Rand Paul, like Thomas Massey, guys that we have a lot of respect for, especially in certain topics, are seeing this differently.

00:02:18.000 It seems like you've got Rand Paul, Thomas Massey, and these types, as well as maybe even President Trump, Matt Gates.

00:02:27.000 They're saying this is a Trojan horse.

00:02:28.000 RFK Jr. is out saying it's a Trojan horse.

00:02:31.000 I mean, I was looking across social media this morning.

00:02:33.000 It was like Cat Dird is calling it a Trojan horse.

00:02:36.000 That seems to be, I would say, a very popular sentiment on the right currently that this is a Trojan horse that expands government power.

00:02:46.000 But then you have Bannon.

00:02:47.000 You have Raheem Kassam.

00:02:49.000 Laura Loomer is out in force doing what she can.

00:02:54.000 You've got a lot of people.

00:02:57.000 Brendan Carr, who's a rock rib conservative on the FCC, who says, no, this is exactly the bill that we wanted during the Trump administration.

00:03:05.000 What's going on here?

00:03:07.000 And then you have people with a very large stake in the company, Jeff Yass, who has a history of donating campaigns like Rand Paul, like Thomas Massey, like Mike Lee, that has obviously a very large stake in TikTok.

00:03:28.000 And so there is a lot of questions about, well, are people doing this to protect campaign donations?

00:03:35.000 I'm not going to cast aspersions on any of these guys.

00:03:38.000 We have worked with them.

00:03:39.000 We trust them.

00:03:41.000 A lot of times things can look a certain way in politics.

00:03:44.000 And in reality, they only work with people that actually support their viewpoint.

00:03:50.000 So I believe that Rand Paul and Thomas Massey truly believe what they're saying.

00:03:55.000 And they believe that this bill could be a Trojan horse.

00:03:58.000 Believe that they're standing on principle.

00:04:01.000 I am not so cynical as to say that just because somebody backs your campaign, that you're going to do everything that they say.

00:04:07.000 And somebody might be backing your campaign because you guys already see eye to eye on so much stuff.

00:04:13.000 So there is a very healthy skepticism about this bill.

00:04:17.000 I have zero problems with anybody being skeptical about it.

00:04:21.000 That being said, I'm looking at it, reading through the documents, reading through the bill itself.

00:04:27.000 It's only 12 pages.

00:04:28.000 I recommend everybody out there in the country as somebody, you all have a stake in this government.

00:04:34.000 Read the bill yourself.

00:04:37.000 Now, here's, if we're just going to play devil's advocate, and Charlie and I talked about this a lot yesterday, the timing is very weird.

00:04:47.000 Now, sometimes this is just the normal process of government.

00:04:50.000 You work through bills, you have different priorities.

00:04:52.000 This might have just been this bill's priority.

00:04:56.000 It was at this point on the list.

00:04:58.000 And they brought it to the front.

00:05:00.000 So, but the timing is weird.

00:05:03.000 It feels sort of random in the middle of an election year, total gridlock, and then swoosh, suddenly it's passing in about a week with near unanimous, it was unanimous through the committee, through the commerce committee, and then it was, it received a ton of bipartisan support from people like Nancy Pelosi, which is very weird, I admit.

00:05:26.000 So I want to go through a couple of different points on this that I think are very important.

00:05:33.000 I want to play the Rand Paul clip because he got into it with Brian Kilmead.

00:05:37.000 And again, we have a massive amount of respect for Rand Paul.

00:05:40.000 So my very public position is that Rand Paul, yes, in the past, he's taken campaign contributions from somebody that owns TikTok.

00:05:49.000 It's a fact.

00:05:51.000 But he is also a civil libertarian and he has been right about so much when it comes to government overreach that we deserve to pay attention to what he says.

00:06:01.000 So here's, oh, wait, Rand Paul 109.

00:06:03.000 I want to play Cut 109, and then I want to get into some of the aspects of that.

00:06:07.000 Cut 109.

00:06:09.000 Maybe you have some foreign owners.

00:06:10.000 I don't know if everybody's an American citizen.

00:06:12.000 And then what if they say, well, Fox News is giving misinformation on the election?

00:06:17.000 You have a foreign ownership.

00:06:19.000 You have misinformation according to the government.

00:06:21.000 And all of a sudden they say, well, we're going to shut down Fox News or we're going to shut down Twitter.

00:06:26.000 So the bill isn't just about TikTok.

00:06:28.000 It mentions TikTok by name, which is also a problem because laws are not allowed to target one company.

00:06:34.000 But there is also a danger that it goes beyond that.

00:06:36.000 Yeah.

00:06:37.000 So he talks about how this danger of it going beyond that.

00:06:40.000 Now, without getting too deep into the weeds, you guys have to understand something called a bill of attainder.

00:06:47.000 So Article 1, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution bans all bills of attainer.

00:06:54.000 And Rand Paul touches on that briefly.

00:06:56.000 He says you're not allowed to target a specific company.

00:07:00.000 It's ex post facto laws and bills of attainder.

00:07:03.000 So basically, Congress can't declare someone or some group or some company guilty of a crime on its own or punish them retroactively, declaring an act to be criminal.

00:07:16.000 A bill of attainder is a legislative bill declaring one guilty of a crime.

00:07:21.000 It was an abuse by Parliament back in the UK, which is why they included it in the U.S. Constitution.

00:07:26.000 So basically, you could be going about your business and think everything's fine and dandy and legal.

00:07:31.000 And then Congress, in theory, could have passed a law and said all those things that you were doing ex post facto is illegal.

00:07:39.000 You're now in trouble.

00:07:40.000 So you're not allowed to do that.

00:07:42.000 So you can't pass a bill that just singles out TikTok as a criminal organization and you can't charge them for crimes in the past.

00:07:52.000 Rand Paul in that same interview goes on and says, listen, they deserve their day in court.

00:07:57.000 So, what this bill does is it actually follows a precedent set that actually involved Yahweh, Huawei.

00:08:05.000 I think that's how you said, another Chinese technology firm.

00:08:09.000 And these types of laws have been challenged in court.

00:08:12.000 They've stood up in court.

00:08:13.000 So, that's another important thing.

00:08:15.000 So, they're following a model that's worked previously.

00:08:18.000 So, you have to sort of say this and, right?

00:08:21.000 You can't just target TikTok.

00:08:23.000 That would be unconstitutional.

00:08:24.000 But what you can do is you say that companies that fit these criteria.

00:08:29.000 And then the challenge becomes how narrowly you can tailor that and still be constitutional.

00:08:34.000 Now, this bill does specifically reference TikTok and ByteDance, but it also says that any other apps or social media companies that fit these parameters could also be subject to this law, meaning that they're not just targeting TikTok.

00:08:50.000 Again, if you just targeted TikTok, that would be unconstitutional.

00:08:54.000 So a lot of people are saying this is a Trojan horse.

00:08:58.000 They have to also understand that there's no way to do a law like this.

00:09:02.000 You can't do a clean ban of TikTok.

00:09:04.000 And so what it says is, is the new laws of the land.

00:09:06.000 So you now have six months to comply with these new laws.

00:09:09.000 Namely, you're not allowed to have 20% stake of your company owned by a foreign adversary, in this case, the Chinese Communist Party.

00:09:16.000 And you have six months to rectify the company and comply.

00:09:21.000 Namely, sell it to an American company or basically pull out.

00:09:26.000 We're going to ban you.

00:09:29.000 Let's talk real risks and real safety for a second.

00:09:31.000 Right now, banks are juggling debts under the radar.

00:09:35.000 Commercial properties, cars, credit cards, they're odd.

00:09:38.000 It's a bit much, isn't it?

00:09:40.000 Makes you think of the 2008 financial crisis.

00:09:44.000 There's a smoother way to handle your finances.

00:09:46.000 I have turned to gold and silver.

00:09:48.000 In fact, I'm holding silver in my hand right now from Noble Gold Investments.

00:09:52.000 It might be traditional, but it's reliable, not just shiny objects.

00:09:56.000 There's some stability in these uncertain times.

00:09:58.000 If you're interested in exploring this path, Noble Gold Investments can guide you.

00:10:03.000 They know their stuff about precious metals for IRAs and 401ks.

00:10:07.000 And here's a little nudge: a one-fourth of an ounce gold standard gold coin, free with qualifying account only this month.

00:10:13.000 When you're ready, invest with the folks at Noble Gold Investments.

00:10:17.000 They'll help you figure out if it's the right move for you.

00:10:20.000 No pressure, just options.

00:10:22.000 You can claim your free gold coin and secure your family's financial future.

00:10:25.000 Just use promo code gold.

00:10:27.000 What is your hedge right now against a coming collapse?

00:10:31.000 The market is primed for a correction.

00:10:34.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com right now.

00:10:36.000 Colin Plume and the team at Noble Gold Investments.

00:10:39.000 They're terrific, responsive, ethical, honest.

00:10:43.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com right now.

00:10:45.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:10:49.000 All right.

00:10:49.000 So I've kind of defended the bill a little bit, and I actually don't really mean to do that because I do have critiques of the bill.

00:10:56.000 Now, I will say that I think the timing's suspicious.

00:11:01.000 I also think that some of it is a little overly broad.

00:11:05.000 And I want to get into that piece of it.

00:11:07.000 All right.

00:11:07.000 So the TikTok bill apps bans apps that are controlled by a foreign adversary.

00:11:14.000 So two of these are really good.

00:11:15.000 And the third clause is a little questionable.

00:11:18.000 One, it defines it as the three following things.

00:11:21.000 One, being based or headquartered within the territory of an adversary.

00:11:26.000 Two, being at least 20% owned by anyone who resides in the territory of an adversary.

00:11:32.000 Okay, fine.

00:11:33.000 Or three, being subject to the direction or control of a foreign person or entity that is covered in categories one or two.

00:11:41.000 Now, number three is particularly broad in my reading.

00:11:45.000 It's like the Trump campaign clearly controlled by Putin.

00:11:50.000 So we got to ban it.

00:11:51.000 We got to ban Trump. 0.95

00:11:52.000 We got to ban Fox is full of Putin puppets. 0.94

00:11:54.000 I'm going to ban that.

00:11:57.000 Now, you have to also remember the safeguards, though, right?

00:12:00.000 So, there's an interagency review process.

00:12:04.000 Then, that would then, so the president would give Congress his recommendation.

00:12:09.000 Then, they would have essentially 160 days to file a legal challenge to that finding or the recommendation for the president.

00:12:18.000 And at that point, it goes to the DC circuit and potentially up to the Supreme Court.

00:12:24.000 So, how do we define adversary?

00:12:26.000 There's essentially four countries included in this: it's China, Iran, North Korea, and Russia.

00:12:33.000 So, Russia is another question mark because it would include potentially Telegram.

00:12:37.000 Although Telegram has an adversarial relationship with Putin, doesn't mean that some interagency report couldn't find that it was actually, you know, in cahoots with Putin or something.

00:12:48.000 Or maybe there was a couple employees that were spying on the company and therefore controlled by Putin.

00:12:53.000 So, all of that is very interesting.

00:12:56.000 And I will say, a little concerning.

00:12:57.000 Why couldn't you just say Chinese companies?

00:13:00.000 Perhaps that would be a better bill.

00:13:02.000 That's not the bill that we're debating right now.

00:13:05.000 I want to play cut 110.

00:13:06.000 This is Steve Mnuchin, who says he's putting together an investor group to potentially buy TikTok.

00:13:12.000 Play 110.

00:13:14.000 I'm going to put together a group to buy TikTok.

00:13:16.000 You're trying to buy TikTok.

00:13:17.000 I am because this should be owned by U.S. U.S. businesses.

00:13:21.000 There is no way that the Chinese would ever let a U.S. company own something like this in China.

00:13:27.000 You say, have you already put a group together?

00:13:29.000 Yeah, well, I'm working here.

00:13:31.000 I've spoken to a bunch of people, but who would be part of your group?

00:13:35.000 I can't tell that to you now.

00:13:37.000 All right.

00:13:37.000 So this is sort of raising more and more suspicions because let's get brass tags.

00:13:45.000 What do we really want?

00:13:47.000 We know that TikTok has an algorithm that is highly addictive, especially to young people.

00:13:54.000 We know that it also has potentially has access to, I mean, this is what our Intel agencies are telling us.

00:14:03.000 I wish we had more trust in our Intel agencies.

00:14:06.000 In a better America, we would.

00:14:07.000 Intel agencies are saying it's basically 150 million spy devices in the hands of Americans.

00:14:14.000 They can tap into anything else in your phone via this app.

00:14:18.000 It can gather all sorts of data.

00:14:21.000 If an American company owns it, so if Mnuchin's group owns the piece that is divested from Chinese control, does that instantly make it better?

00:14:33.000 I would argue probably.

00:14:35.000 But it's kind of uncertain because the ownership would then control the algorithm and would be able to push different topics, different videos.

00:14:46.000 And this is what they do.

00:14:47.000 So for example, when this bill was first brought up, when it started to become public knowledge that they were going to push this forward in the Commerce Department, TikTok put out an alert, asked for the zip code of its user.

00:15:03.000 The user input the zip code, and then it would give you the name and number of your local representative and people engaged in an influence campaign.

00:15:11.000 Could you do that in other ways?

00:15:13.000 Absolutely.

00:15:14.000 But it's softer usually.

00:15:17.000 What the algorithm is pushing in America is usually trans ideology, gender ideology, anti-conservative values.

00:15:24.000 Charlie has been very vocal about this.

00:15:25.000 He's been kicked off the app about 100 times.

00:15:29.000 We have other influencers like Isabel Brown at Turning Point USA, who has had a really good, has a really good following on TikTok, but she's also had to navigate the bans.

00:15:39.000 It is absolutely a problematic app from the content perspective.

00:15:44.000 Would that be better if it was in American hands?

00:15:46.000 It depends whose American hands it's in.

00:15:48.000 And this bill does not determine that either.

00:15:51.000 Open question.

00:15:55.000 Folks, so many people I know are disheartened that our country seems to have forgotten the importance of citizenship, and they wonder how a strong sense of citizenship might be revived.

00:16:04.000 That's why my friends at Hillsdale College have produced a free online course on this topic, American Citizenship and Its Decline.

00:16:11.000 Taught by historian Victor Davis Hansen, the course traces the history of citizenship and explains how it is undermined in America today by open borders, by identity politics, by the administrative state, and by globalization.

00:16:24.000 Americans taking the course will gain a deeper insight about the connection between citizenship and freedom, an insight they can share with their family members, friends, and neighbors.

00:16:33.000 Hillsdale's free online courses are an important component of Hillsdale's mission to reach and teach increasing millions of people on behalf of liberty and the American way of life.

00:16:43.000 So, sign up today for Hillsdale's free online course, American Citizenship and Its Decline, by visiting charlieforhillsdale.com.

00:16:51.000 That is charlieforhillsdale.com.

00:16:53.000 Start your free course today at charlie4hillsdale.com.

00:16:59.000 All right, so I want to bring in two incredible guests.

00:17:02.000 James E. Fannell is a retired U.S. Navy captain.

00:17:06.000 He served 29 years in the military.

00:17:08.000 He's the former Director of Intelligence and Information Operations for the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

00:17:13.000 And then we've got Bradley A. Thayer, PhD, founding member of the Committee on Present Danger China.

00:17:19.000 And they have a great new book called Embracing Communist China: America's Greatest Strategic Failure. 0.52

00:17:25.000 All right, so let's get into it.

00:17:27.000 James and Bradley, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:17:30.000 Well, wonderful.

00:17:31.000 It's wonderful to join you today.

00:17:32.000 Thank you for having us.

00:17:33.000 Perfect.

00:17:34.000 Well, thank you.

00:17:34.000 So tell me about the title.

00:17:36.000 At first, I read it and I was like, Embracing Communist China.

00:17:39.000 That's the opposite of what I want to do.

00:17:41.000 What is your guys' thesis in this book?

00:17:44.000 And why did you write it now?

00:17:45.000 Explain, and either of you can take it, James or Bradley, please.

00:17:49.000 Well, Andrew, it's great to have the opportunity to join you.

00:17:52.000 Our thesis is that America made a fundamental mistake when Wall Street financiers, in conjunction with the Chinese Communist Party, came together to invest in China, to invest in the People's Republic of China, thus facilitating its rapid growth in the 1990s, the naughties, to where it is today.

00:18:16.000 So China went from a very small economy, about 0.6% of 1% in 1990, to about 19% in 2019.

00:18:27.000 And it became our greatest strategic threat as a consequence.

00:18:32.000 And it was largely the United States that was responsible for funding and supporting the growth of its greatest adversary through what we call the engagement school.

00:18:43.000 Those who believed that by engaging with China, you could change the Chinese Communist Party, when in fact, all that happened was that the Chinese Communist Party became stronger.

00:18:54.000 And year after year, Andrew, we make the argument that the U.S. threat deflated.

00:18:59.000 We consistently, year after year, underestimated the threat that the Chinese Communist Party essentially generated. 0.94

00:19:08.000 Why do we write it now?

00:19:10.000 Because the question is so obvious to our minds.

00:19:14.000 How is it that the United States could not do what it would have done during the Cold War or previously in World War II, and that was balance the rise of communist China?

00:19:24.000 It didn't do that, which is a gross aberration and our greatest strategic failure, as we argue in the book.

00:19:33.000 So now our work is cut out for us.

00:19:35.000 We've got a lot to do to essentially repair the mistakes that we ourselves made.

00:19:41.000 So, this is a multi-pronged attack that's threatening American influence both abroad, in the Middle East, in Africa, certainly in the South Pacific.

00:19:52.000 But right now, we're also talking about domestic interference by China, namely with this TikTok app.

00:19:59.000 I know that you guys, so we're sort of trying to work through this bill to see if it's something that conservatives should be supporting or not.

00:20:08.000 You guys have come out, as I understand it, against this particular bill.

00:20:14.000 But it's not that you're not pro-TikTok, obviously, but why is it that you do not think this is the right bill to solve this problem?

00:20:22.000 Well, I think, yeah, well, we'll just say that TikTok is a cancer.

00:20:27.000 TikTok is a cancer from the Chinese Communist Party. 0.94

00:20:31.000 And so, that's the first point that we have to make. 0.56

00:20:34.000 You know, we've had, you mentioned the word multi-prong.

00:20:37.000 And so, in our book, we talk about the Chinese Communist Party's comprehensive national power that they're applying to the United States, who stands in the way of their strategic goal of becoming the global superpower.

00:20:52.000 And they want to displace us from that role and they want to destroy us in the process.

00:20:57.000 And they want to do it through all methods available.

00:21:01.000 They would prefer not to have to fire shots if they can get away with demoralizing and destroying their enemy from within.

00:21:09.000 That's what they would choose to do.

00:21:11.000 So, what we've seen over the last several years, since the Communist Party's come to power, but really over the last 30-plus years since Deng Xiaoping took over and created this hide-and-buy strategy, what we've seen is the Chinese really go after us. 0.90

00:21:28.000 And they went after us with, you know, we can talk about fentanyl.

00:21:32.000 We have 70 to 100,000 people being killed every year for the last five or six years.

00:21:38.000 That's as many men that were killed in World War II.

00:21:42.000 So, now we have this other thing called TikTok, which is in a totally different domain.

00:21:45.000 It's in the information domain, and it's being run and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party.

00:21:50.000 Byte dance is a state-owned enterprise or subject to state-owned enterprise rules and regulations from the Chinese Communist Party, and it is a threat to us.

00:21:59.000 So, we have to do something.

00:22:00.000 So, the intent of Congressman Gallagher's legislation that he created in the House, I think, is a good idea in the sense that we have to deal with cancer.

00:22:12.000 35 years ago, I dealt with cancer.

00:22:14.000 I was in a hospital for a year, and cancer will kill you.

00:22:18.000 You cannot leave cancer running around in your body.

00:22:21.000 The question is, what do you do with it?

00:22:22.000 Do you use chemotherapy?

00:22:24.000 Do you use radiation or do you use surgery?

00:22:26.000 So, right now, we're in this American process of debating how we can best get rid of this cancer of TikTok.

00:22:33.000 And so, there's a lot of solutions out there, and there should be great concern by Americans to make sure that we don't empower our government to violate the Fourth Amendment and other amendments that give us the right to privacy and the right of assembly and free speech.

00:22:49.000 But the fact of the matter is, TikTok is a lethal threat, and we have to deal with it.

00:22:54.000 And so, this bill, as originally written, I think has some goodness to it because it basically says you can only ban somebody that's from one of the four designated adversary nations, the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Iran, and the fourth one's escaping me right now.

00:23:14.000 Russia, Russia, thank you.

00:23:16.000 So, Russia.

00:23:17.000 So, those four are designated in writing, and then it says, and they have to have the president buy off on that.

00:23:24.000 And he has to have, you know, kind of a I say it's this, and he can't say it's anything else.

00:23:29.000 So, if we can keep the law written in such a strict way that is clear, simple, concise, that restrains any kind of expansion of this, then we should move forward on it.

00:23:39.000 That's the challenge that will be for all of us as citizens is to hold our elected officials accountable, both in the House and the Senate to make sure that they don't try to seek to expand this.

00:23:50.000 So I think that's where we're at right now on this specific issue.

00:23:53.000 And it fits in perfectly with our book.

00:23:56.000 For 30 plus years, as we talked about, the U.S. government failed to protect this nation from the predatory threat of the Chinese Communist Party. 0.90

00:24:05.000 And we're seeing the results of that.

00:24:07.000 And we'll talk about that more throughout this hour.

00:24:10.000 But that's where I stand.

00:24:12.000 I think Brad stands on this issue.

00:24:14.000 Yeah, Brad, do you have any nuance on James's take there?

00:24:18.000 Or, I mean, or do you guys are in alignment on this TikTok issue?

00:24:23.000 We're in alignment on it.

00:24:24.000 That it is a cancer, as Jim said, or it's, you know, two major things.

00:24:28.000 It's an intelligence collection device, TikTok is.

00:24:32.000 And then, secondly, it's a weapon of political warfare to be put, you know, it's putting Xi Jinping, the communist dictator, on your phone if you've got TikTok.

00:24:42.000 So the CCP is with you constantly, and Xi Jinping is with you constantly, and he's mining your data and he's influencing your opinions.

00:24:52.000 He may influence your vote.

00:24:54.000 So it's a pernicious, pernicious threat.

00:24:57.000 And it's one, again, we need to recognize this is a Cold War.

00:25:01.000 We would have never allowed the Soviets to do this during the Cold War.

00:25:05.000 It's time to recognize.

00:25:06.000 Yeah.

00:25:07.000 Yeah.

00:25:07.000 So I guess the question then becomes: so you're broadly supportive of the effort.

00:25:12.000 The question then becomes: you know, can this law be abused by the executive branch specifically?

00:25:20.000 A lot of people believe it gives him too much power.

00:25:23.000 But secondly, I think there's a larger geopolitical question here.

00:25:26.000 So say we do move forward with this, and we're not sure what's going to happen in the Senate, but it's cleared the House hurdle.

00:25:32.000 Would China have China says this is going to come back and bite us in the rear?

00:25:36.000 Basically, that if we do this, we're going to rue the day that we did this.

00:25:40.000 Are there any economic levers that China could pull that would be truly damaging to us?

00:25:48.000 For example, they have a, where Boeing's going through a lot of problems right now.

00:25:52.000 They have an airline competitor.

00:25:54.000 They're now an exporter of cars.

00:25:56.000 How could China try and exact their pound of flesh if we move forward with this? 0.59

00:26:01.000 Oh, they could do it in obviously many different ways. 0.96

00:26:04.000 In agriculture, that's another way in which they might respond.

00:26:09.000 But nonetheless, it's necessary.

00:26:11.000 These are necessary steps to take to separate ourselves.

00:26:15.000 India went through the same thing in 2020 when they banned TikTok and a variety of other apps too, right?

00:26:20.000 TikTok is not alone, and there are some other pernicious ones out there.

00:26:27.000 But India went through that pain of doing it and dealt with the Chinese, the PRC's abuse as a consequence of it. 0.85

00:26:36.000 Look, this is, again, it's an apt metaphor. 0.51

00:26:39.000 This is a cancer, and you have to treat it like cancer and recognize, of course, that the PRC can retaliate.

00:26:48.000 And a positive element which might come from that is to recognize: hey, we are in a Cold War with communist China. 0.79

00:26:55.000 And it's time for all Americans to recognize that and act accordingly.

00:26:59.000 From an economic standpoint, if they want to ratchet that up, they're not in a position of strength over us economically, even though we have serious problems.

00:27:07.000 Their problems are much worse.

00:27:11.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

00:27:12.000 We're all getting the sense that we're being lied to.

00:27:14.000 Well, that's because we are.

00:27:16.000 Suspicious events are unfolding.

00:27:17.000 Even worse, it's hard to believe what anyone has to say about it.

00:27:20.000 And we all know the mainstream media has their own agenda.

00:27:23.000 That's why you need to trust your gut and take action.

00:27:25.000 It's time to prepare.

00:27:27.000 Get started at mypatriotsupply.com.

00:27:29.000 Load up on three-month emergency food kits packed with ready-hour foods from MyPatriot Supply.

00:27:35.000 You will save $200 per kit.

00:27:38.000 These kits provide over 2,000 calories every day.

00:27:41.000 Serving over 3 million families since 2008, my Patriot Supply is equipped to help yours achieve self-reliance.

00:27:46.000 Go to mypatriotsupply.com and stock up on as many kits as you need from MyPatriot Supply.

00:27:52.000 They ship fast and free and arrive in unmarked boxes.

00:27:55.000 Order by 3 p.m., and your order will ship the same day.

00:27:57.000 Save $200 per kit at mypatriotsupply.com.

00:28:00.000 That is mypatriotsupply.com.

00:28:02.000 They ship fast and free and arrive in unmarked boxes.

00:28:05.000 Order by 3 p.m. today.

00:28:07.000 They're a wonderful, wonderful product.

00:28:08.000 So check it out right now at mypatriotsupply.com.

00:28:14.000 Is China on the verge of collapse or do you, or is it something in the middle?

00:28:19.000 And do they have much power?

00:28:21.000 Do they not have much power economically over the United States?

00:28:24.000 What's your take?

00:28:25.000 Well, I'll say, first of all, I don't think they're on the verge of collapse.

00:28:29.000 I think they have great structural problems economically.

00:28:33.000 That, as you mentioned, Gordon Chang has been very vocal about and accurate about.

00:28:38.000 And they have ideological problems that Brad will probably expound on better than I.

00:28:43.000 But in terms of real power, yes, they do have real power, and we need to be concerned with that power.

00:28:50.000 I talked about fentanyl.

00:28:51.000 We have 70 to 100,000 Americans killed every year by that power, by the malign power of the Communist Party that's driving that drug into our nation and killing our fellow citizens. 0.62

00:29:02.000 That's outrageous.

00:29:03.000 But on terms of the military, where I spent my career, and I just want to make it clear, I don't work for a defense contractor.

00:29:10.000 I'm retired and I live in Switzerland where my wife is from, and I have no financial interest.

00:29:14.000 But I have been preaching for a long time about the military threat from the People's Republic of China.

00:29:20.000 And what you saw this past couple of weeks was the Chinese holding their National People's Congress, where they announced that they were setting the target growth of their gross domestic product to be 5% for the year 2024.

00:29:34.000 But before they announced that 5% target growth, they went out and told all of China and the world that they would grow their defense, their defense or military, the PLA, the People's Liberation Army, by 7.2%.

00:29:48.000 That is about 30 years where they have been growing their military greater than their own domestic economic growth.

00:29:56.000 So, if you put it in terms that we all can live with, you have your budget, you have the money, you have your income.

00:30:02.000 Would you prioritize spending guns and bullets over food to feed your family or hospital visits to see the doctor?

00:30:10.000 That's what the Chinese have done for 30 years. 1.00

00:30:12.000 And that's why they've gone from having a brownwater Navy that could only barely get past 20 miles off their coast in 2000 to having a Navy today that dominates the Western Pacific and threatens the U.S. 7th Fleet, where I served. 0.51

00:30:27.000 They have more ships than us.

00:30:30.000 25 years ago, they had 100 less ships.

00:30:32.000 Now they have 100 more.

00:30:34.000 And not only do they have more ships than us, their ships have anti-ship cruise missiles that fly at supersonic speeds that ours do not have, that are longer range.

00:30:43.000 They have hypersonic missiles.

00:30:45.000 They have anti-ship ballistic missiles that they test launched a few years ago in 2020 with the DF-21D and a DF-26 that traveled thousands of kilometers, thousands of miles, and hit a moving target in the South China Sea.

00:31:00.000 And we're seeing that now reflected in real time in the Red Sea as Houthi rebels shoot anti-ship ballistic missiles at our ships.

00:31:08.000 That technology came from China.

00:31:10.000 China is proliferating nuclear weapons technology and ICBM technology to North Korea.

00:31:17.000 They're a malign actor that's very powerful and has a very strong military, along with diplomatic strength. 0.93

00:31:23.000 They have just a report that came out here in the last couple of days.

00:31:28.000 They have more diplomatic missions around the world than the United States of America.

00:31:31.000 So they have more diplomatic influence than we do.

00:31:35.000 Yeah, and that's unforgivable.

00:31:37.000 Yeah, yeah, well, that's unforgivable.

00:31:39.000 Let's get on that economic angle too, though, Bradley.

00:31:42.000 Size up how strong they are and how much they could retaliate against America using their economic might, or do we still have the leverage?

00:31:50.000 Well, we still have leverage.

00:31:52.000 I mean, their economy is in free fall, right?

00:31:54.000 That they have profound structural problems in terms of the collapse of the real estate market, the lack of transparency in banking.

00:32:02.000 The whole banking system is a fraud.

00:32:05.000 So, every word that they say about their economic growth is a lie, including the words and and the.

00:32:11.000 So, you know, you have to take whatever they say with a major grain of salt.

00:32:17.000 So, those profound economic problems are not going to be resolved.

00:32:20.000 And they're not just a result of the, you know, the draconian zero COVID issues.

00:32:26.000 These are deep and lasting problems in their economy.

00:32:29.000 In addition, you've got a layer of environmental problems, a layer of demographic problems, a layer of essentially structural economic problems.

00:32:38.000 Additionally, and finally, you have a lot of the world's manufacturing and investment is waking up to the hazards of investing in communist China. 0.90

00:32:48.000 And so they're beginning to go elsewhere.

00:32:51.000 So the Chinese have been screaming for investment for over a year now, right?

00:32:56.000 Touting about how China is still safe and that they want your investment money while money flows to Indonesia, India, Vietnam, and elsewhere.

00:33:05.000 And that's very positive.

00:33:07.000 Yeah, that is very positive.

00:33:08.000 I think COVID woke a lot of the world up to what was going on in China and really is going to be seen, I think, in hindsight as a turning point in all of this.

00:33:16.000 Gentlemen, thank you for your profound insights and congratulations on your book, Embracing Communist China.

00:33:25.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:33:27.000 If you get anything out of this show, if it's important to you, if you find it a place of refuge, of information, if you find it a sea of calm and order in an otherwise chaotic world, please consider joining members.charlikirk.com.

00:33:42.000 That's members.charlikirk.com.

00:33:44.000 We're even doing a weekly members-only call.

00:33:47.000 It is a really important new tool that we are currently adding to every day.

00:33:54.000 You also get a weekly column.

00:33:55.000 You get exclusive content and video that Charlie releases just there.

00:33:59.000 So be a part of the inside exclusive community at members.charliekirk.com.

00:34:04.000 It would be our pleasure to welcome you.

00:34:06.000 Thanks so much.

00:34:07.000 Talk to you soon.

00:34:09.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk dot com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - March 14, 2024

The TikTok Ban: Narrowly Tailored or Trojan Horse?

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript