00:00:00.000Hey everybody, today the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:01.000One of my favorite conversations that I've had in recent memory is coming up right here with Douglas Murray, the author of The War on the West.
00:00:10.000Douglas is one of the smartest intellectuals in the world, and I mean that.
00:00:14.000You'll be blown away by his commentary, his honesty.
00:00:17.000He has a charm to him that I think is just very appealing.
00:01:20.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:46.000However, this hour, we're going to do it together, go through some of the news and also talk about his amazing new book of one of the most gifted and brilliant intellectuals in the world and definitely in the West, Douglas Murray.
00:02:00.000He has a new book that is out called The War on the West.
00:02:05.000And you're going to be blown away by Douglas this entire hour as he perfectly identifies the issues with what is happening in Western culture, what we can do to fix it.
00:02:16.000And he does it with a wit and a charm that is quite honestly, he's the only one that I see that is able to do it like him.
00:04:16.000The one that is most devastating in our time is Western anti-Westernism, the desire, the attempt to wage war on the peoples and the ideas and the culture and the history of the West by people in the West.
00:04:30.000And, you know, as you know, in the book, Charlie, I go through this methodically, but start with what I regard as being perhaps the biggest moral outrage of the moment, which is what I describe as the war on white people.
00:04:44.000We in the West are multicultural countries.
00:04:47.000We have all sorts of people from all places in the world, and it's certainly one of the things that makes us distinctive.
00:04:54.000But we recognize racism in every single case except one.
00:04:59.000And the one we don't recognize it in, won't recognize it in at the moment is the racism against white people, which is now absolutely endemic and particularly in America.
00:05:09.000You see, you can't have a war on the West unless you wage war on the majority.
00:05:13.000And the majority of people in America, as in Britain, are white.
00:05:16.000And so, of course, if you're going to war on the West, you've got to war on white people.
00:05:21.000You've got to say the most appalling racist things about white people.
00:05:25.000You've got to pathologize white people.
00:05:28.000Then you've got to strip them of their history.
00:05:32.000You've got to say that their history is no good or has always been rotten and that they've got no good heroes, no decent people from their past, nothing to be proud of.
00:05:41.000Then you've got a war on their religion.
00:05:43.000You've got a war on the Judeo-Christian principles of the West and also the secular and enlightenment principles in the West.
00:05:50.000And as I showed, both of those are happening.
00:05:52.000And then you war on everything in the culture.
00:05:54.000You look at everyone from the past, our philosophers, our musicians, our artists, our writers, and you've got to say, no, these people aren't people to be proud of or to learn from.
00:06:03.000No, on the contrary, they're guilty of living in the Western past.
00:07:49.000We believe that all forms of racism are evil and awful.
00:07:52.000But the one type of racism you're not allowed to talk about, of course, is a war on people that look like you and I. Why is that?
00:08:00.000Does it have something to do with how they view racism only to be a power struggle?
00:08:04.000If you have more numbers, therefore you can't be racist.
00:08:08.000And Douglas, you said something, and I've repeated it many times.
00:08:12.000And I give you credit about half the time, just so you're just so we're clear.
00:08:16.000When you were on this conversation with Dennis Prager and you just said, we have a supply and demand problem with racism in the West, I said, that is one of the smartest things I've ever heard anybody say.
00:09:56.000It used to one time be one of the great universities of America.
00:09:59.000Here's what somebody said at Yale last year in a talk, a nasty, nasty piece of work called Aruna Kilinani.
00:10:06.000She gave a talk about whiteness in which she said that white people have lost their minds, that they are predators with holes in their brains.
00:10:15.000There are no good apples, no good apples.
00:10:18.000And then she said that she fantasizes about unloading a revolver into the head of any white person that gets in my way, burying their bodies, wiping my bloody hands as I walk away guiltless with a bounce in my step, like I did the world in effing favor.
00:10:33.000Tell me, Charlie, whether Yale University would permit somebody to say that they have fantasies of shooting black people in the head.
00:10:42.000Of course they wouldn't, and nor should they.
00:10:44.000And you and I and everyone else would call them out.
00:10:46.000The one group you can say that about are white people.
00:10:49.000So, Douglas, you're talking about a war on white people, which I agree with.
00:10:54.000And later in the conversation, I want to talk about how that could have an improper response of white identitarianism, which you and I do not support, but that is, they're almost trying to provoke that.
00:11:06.000They're almost trying to engineer it, a re-tribalization of the West.
00:11:12.000But instead, I want to focus these couple minutes together on what is driving this, which is a filler term that I do not like, which we use as woke.
00:11:22.000But it's just kind of a catch-all term.
00:11:27.000Why have the woke been so successful in making it controversial for me to wear a 1776 shirt or to say that Thomas Jefferson had some brilliant ideas or to say that the Western canon is the greatest breakthrough of literature that mankind has ever toiled in?
00:11:45.000Why have the woke been so successful in being able to do that and obviously so much more?
00:11:50.000First of all, because they have been willing to do whatever it takes to win.
00:11:55.000They are perfectly willing to just lie.
00:11:57.000I mean, I take apart piece by piece in the book the lies that they just spin, the lies that people like Kendi tell about Thomas Jefferson, the lies that Nicole Hanna-Jones tells about America, the claims they make that are totally untrue and without foundation, the lies that Robin DiAngelo and the other race hucksters, both black and white, are willing to engage in.
00:12:27.000And I think that a lot of people are thrown by this because, you know, I mean, like, I'm not willing to just make stuff up and lie about people in order to win.
00:12:34.000And I think most conservatives in general aren't either because it's just incredibly dangerous terrain.
00:12:41.000Once you fall into that pit, you can't get out again.
00:12:53.000Why are the, what you rightly say in the filler term is the woke mob.
00:12:58.000Why are they coming for the people they have been coming for?
00:13:01.000So if you want to say that everyone in our past is, you know, racist and so on and so forth, but why would they have come for Winston Churchill?
00:13:10.000Winston Churchill is one of the primary targets of the woke mob.
00:13:16.000The BLM protests in 2020 in London, they targeted Churchill's statue so often, defamed it, smeared it, graffited it so often it had to be boxed up and there was talk of it perhaps being brought down.
00:13:39.000Why would they have torn down the statue of Lincoln in Portland and then in other parts of the country, including Boston, the authorities removed the statues of Lincoln?
00:13:52.000This is a revolutionary movement that is facing us.
00:13:55.000And when you want to topple a civilization, when you want to destroy a civilization like these people want to destroy the West, you go to their temples, you pull down their statues, you urinate on their holy places, and you say, you've lost.
00:14:26.000And let me just very quickly tell you how I can observe this.
00:14:30.000Look at the people they haven't done it to.
00:14:34.000I write at one point in the book about a historical figure from the 19th century who did all of the wrong things you could do, used the N-word repeatedly, usually hyphenated with the word Jew, was horrible in his views about black people, horrible in his views about Jews, horrible in his views about slavery and colonialism.
00:15:16.000If you can take out Tom, everyone from the American past, if you can take out Churchill for one phrase, if you can take out Jefferson for one thing, David Hume for one footnote, if you can do that, why not Karl Marx?
00:15:57.000Oh, oh, like Thomas Jefferson, Winston Churchill, and Abraham Lincoln, you mean?
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00:17:47.000So Douglas, we're talking about the West, and you've done a wonderful job identifying many of the problems.
00:17:53.000I want to ask, in the recent weeks or months, have you seen a shift?
00:17:57.000Are you seeing all of a sudden the wokeys being put on defense?
00:18:02.000I, for one, and I could use the Twitter, I could see the Twitter example as front and center, as there's a change in how we're talking about these ideas.
00:18:11.000It's no longer that we're even entertaining them.
00:18:14.000It's almost like now we're dismissing them in the same category of bloodletting and flat earth theory right where they belong.
00:18:41.000If you were to tell any minority group in society that they are evil from birth, evil because of the color of their skin, have nothing good to be said about them, must spend their lives cringing and apologizing for things they didn't do that people who looked a bit like them in history may have done.
00:18:58.000If you said that about any minority group, would you think that that minority group would go along with it?
00:19:07.000If you did it to a majority group, why would a majority go along with that?
00:19:14.000White Westerners are the majority in America, in Britain, in the other countries of the West.
00:19:22.000So these people who are waging war on us in our own societies, from our own societies, are doing it to the majority.
00:19:30.000Yeah, and so, and isn't it, though, Douglas, that it's this kind of like waspy polite culture, though, that is now being used against us?
00:19:38.000You have this line in the book that I thought was so amazing, and it says, the people of the West have been polite.
00:19:44.000They've been encouraged to talk themselves down and talk everybody else up.
00:19:48.000This will not necessarily last forever.
00:19:50.000And you see this kind of embedded in white Anglo-Saxon Protestant circles where it's not, you didn't win the championship, your team won the championship, right?
00:19:58.000It's that you're arguing this is not sustainable.
00:20:02.000In fact, it's now turned, it's transformed into a form of suicide.
00:20:08.000Now, I want to, the purpose of the war in the West, and I really urge people to buy it, not just because it's a book by me, but because I'm trying to arm the American people.
00:20:17.000I want to arm American parents to know what to say to their kids when they return from college stupider.
00:20:23.000And I want to educate the kids to know what to say to their professors when they're indoctrinated.
00:20:28.000I want us to have the facts to hand to fight back because the fight back has to be good, has to be decent, has to be reasonable, and it has to be successful.
00:20:36.000And for that to happen, we need to be on the right terms.
00:20:39.000Now, here's the thing: we need to be armed for this and armed with all of the right and correct answers, not least because the facts happen to be on our side.
00:20:49.000But let me just explain what I think is going to have to happen.
00:20:52.000We're going to have to say we're courteous, and what we're doing at the moment is courteous, but we might not always be courteous.
00:21:40.000So, here's an example of what not being polite would look like.
00:21:45.000I could point out, since we always in America, in particular, is always Native American wisdom, Native Indigenous peoples' wisdom, and so on.
00:21:51.000When you have a global pandemic, when you have a global pandemic, who do you go to to try to find a vaccine?
00:21:59.000Did anyone go to the Aboriginal peoples of Australia and say, now, look, chaps, I know you've got a different system of science.
00:22:05.000Could you help us come up with a vaccine?
00:22:08.000Did anyone go to First Peoples Native Wisdom and say, Look, we'd really like some help to inoculate the planet against this coronavirus that's come out of China.
00:22:39.000I don't want to take the mickey out of people because of their traditions any more than I want them to take the mickey out of me for my traditions.
00:22:44.000But here's the other part of this deal: if you do not respect me, I cannot respect you.
00:22:53.000If you do not respect my history, I don't see why I should respect yours.
00:22:59.000If you have zero respect for my culture, I will not respect yours.
00:23:23.000This is a great point, Charlie, because the point is, is that one of the greatest things of the Western tradition, which we are spitting all over in our era, is that it is available for all people to benefit from.
00:23:57.000So one of my suggestions is instead of spitting on that and defecating on it and pretending there's nothing good to come for it, how about we actually celebrate it?
00:24:06.000How about we're actually grateful for it and show some damn gratitude for what we've been lucky enough to have inherited?
00:24:12.000Because it's not, as I keep saying, it's not just luck.
00:24:15.000As Branch Rickey once said, and as I quote in the book, luck is the residue of design.
00:24:25.000We are lucky in the West because the West was designed this way.
00:24:29.000We are lucky in America because America was designed this way.
00:24:33.000We didn't just happen to have what the founding fathers gave us.
00:24:38.000We have it because they gave it to us.
00:24:40.000We don't just happen to have freedoms and the freedom of speech and the freedom of thought and movement and much more because, oh, it's just a bit of luck.
00:24:48.000It's because men from the past gave it to us.
00:26:26.000At the moment, reparations would be a wealth transfer from one group of people who look like people who may have done something in the past to another group of people who may have had a wrong done to them.
00:27:10.000So what we have at the moment are people who, as Nietzsche says, tear at wounds long closed and then cry about the hurt that has been caused to them.
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00:29:54.000Even if you say, wait, wait a second, to add to your point, you know, America distributed 19 million acres of land to freed slaves.
00:30:02.000The size of South Carolina post-Civil War, most people don't even know this.
00:30:05.00019 million acres of land were given to freed slaves, which is like giving South Carolina, as I said.
00:30:11.000Most people say, oh, that wasn't enough.
00:30:12.000That's a pretty amazing reparation check.
00:30:15.000But what do you have to say to kind of all these other 20th century arguments that persist to try to invalidate the entire Western culture?
00:30:27.000And to know that, we have to know facts like the one you just give and the ones that I give in the war on the west, the ones that we need as armor to defend ourselves and our tradition and this country.
00:30:36.000You know, if America falls, everything else in the West falls too.
00:30:42.000If America is persuaded that it is evil, everything else in the West will be persuaded that it is evil too.
00:30:48.000You know, if Americans are persuaded that their history is only one of evil, then that is it.
00:30:57.000The 21st century will be the century of the Chinese Communist Party.
00:31:02.000And that, I can assure people, particularly people who think that racism is the single most important thing in the world, will not be a century that will be better for them than the American one.
00:31:12.000So we need to arm ourselves with the facts and we need to know when we're dealing with bad faith actors.
00:31:18.000We are dealing with a lot of bad faith actors when they talk about the West today.
00:31:23.000They say that we are guilty of things uniquely when the things that we are accused of being guilty of are exactly the same things that everyone else in the world also did.
00:31:33.000Every single civilization in history had slaves.
00:31:38.000If we're going to pull down everything created by slaves, I guess we've got to pull down the pyramids because you know, I don't think that Egyptian workers were paid a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.
00:31:48.000We'd have to pull down the Parthenon in Athens because I don't think that the Athenians managed to give good days' wages to the people who dragged the stones to the top of the hill.
00:31:58.000Here's the thing: everybody's past is filled with things that they can be told to be shameful of and some things that they should be feeling some shame about.
00:32:08.000But the overwhelming story of America is not one of shame, but of pride.
00:32:14.000It isn't one of failure, but of success.
00:32:17.000It isn't one which we should be cringing about and forever having to apologize about.
00:32:22.000But say, look, the thing that marks us out isn't that we had slavery.
00:32:26.000The things that marks us out is that we did away with it.
00:33:02.000Instead of falling for the people who hate us and the people who want to reframe our narrative and tell us that our country in America was started in slavery in 1619 and that it's forever there and so on.
00:33:14.000Instead of falling for these people, how about we concentrate on the world as it is now and try to make it better?
00:33:20.000These people want to take us to the past.
00:33:34.000And the future, to get the future right, we have to get the past right.
00:33:38.000And as I said to you before in the previous segment, everyone in the world knows that the West is best not because it comes from white people, but because it works.
00:34:27.000And please, everybody, go online, go to a bookshop if you can find it and buy the war on the west, because if we can, apart from anything else, if we can make it a bestseller, it'll massively demoralize all of our opponents and enemies.