00:00:58.000His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:07.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:19.000Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
00:01:29.000Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.
00:01:55.000Yeah, Charlie, always great to join you.
00:01:56.000Wish we were under better circumstances.
00:01:58.000So last week, you had this 128-page ruling from a state bar court judge.
00:02:05.000I guess they have their own mini judiciary just for state bar proceedings out in California.
00:02:10.000And the judge there by the name of Yvette Roland devoted 128 pages to purporting to explain why John Eastman should be disbarred from California.
00:02:20.000Now, Charlie, let's step back a little bit.
00:02:21.000John and I went to the same law school.
00:02:23.000We both went to University of Chicago Law School.
00:02:24.000I have known about John Eastman since well before I even went to law school.
00:02:28.000Because he's been a prolific legal scholar on the right for a very long time.
00:02:32.000He was dean of Chapman University School of Law in Orange County, California.
00:02:36.000He clerked for Justice Clarence Thomas way back in the 1990s.
00:02:40.000He has written prolifically about the Declaration of Independence, about birthright citizenship and the 14th Amendment.
00:02:45.000He's been around the block, so to speak.
00:02:47.000And nonetheless, he is currently being prosecuted by Fonnie Wills in Georgia.
00:02:51.000They're trying to disbar the man in California, a whole host of other stuff as well.
00:02:55.000He was forced to retire from Chapman Law.
00:02:57.000He lost a visiting scholarship position at University of Colorado Boulder.
00:03:00.000And it's very similar to what's going on to Jeffrey Clark, the former high-ranking Trump DOJ official.
00:03:05.000They're trying to disbar him right now in Washington, D.C. Actually, literally just yesterday, as I was writing my column on this very topic, the Washington, D.C. bar found Jeffrey Clark in violation of some vaguely defined ethics rule.
00:03:17.000They're trying to disbar him there as well.
00:03:19.000He's also being prosecuted by Fonnie Wills down in Fulton County, Georgia.
00:03:22.000Charlie, the point is that this isn't necessarily about Donald Trump.
00:03:26.000It's not necessarily about John Eastman, even though he is a personal friend of mine.
00:03:29.000It's not necessarily about Jeffrey Clark.
00:03:31.000This is about a war on the legal profession.
00:03:33.000I look at the current right of center law students.
00:03:36.000I tour the country giving a lot of law school talks.
00:03:38.000I look at the current right of center law students who I'm trying to talk to about constitutional interpretation and stuff like that.
00:03:43.000They are being intimidated out of ever possibly representing a high-profile Republican, such as a Donald Trump.
00:03:51.000being intimidated out of out of even considering joining a future Republican administration, a Department of Justice, because they're trying to get to a point where if you so much as consider representing a Republican or working in a Republican DOJ, you're going to get disowned.
00:04:23.000I mean, Charlie, you know these arguments just as well as I do.
00:04:25.000I mean, they say that John Eastman is an insurrectionist because of the legal advice that he gave to Donald Trump.
00:04:30.000Let me take that head on just for a second, actually, if I may.
00:04:33.000So in the aftermath of the 2020 election, leading up to January 6th, 2021, John Eastman decided that he was going to legally represent Donald Trump.
00:04:41.000Now, when I was in law school, I learned just as every law student learns that you have a legal ethical obligation to passionately and zealously, the term zealously is usually used.
00:04:52.000You have to zealously advocate for your client's legal interests.
00:04:55.000And you have a lot of leeway, not unbound, but a lot of leeway to do so within the confines of America's adversarial legal system.
00:05:02.000What John said is that the 12th Amendment and the Electoral Count Act of 1887 gave the vice president of the United States a more hands-on role, a more active role rather than a purely passive role to determine the legitimacy of the states submitted slates of electors at the Electoral College.
00:05:21.000Now, it is worth pointing out, Charlie, the U.S. Supreme Court has never, ever in the history of the Supreme Court definitively, authoritatively interpreted that 12th Amendment provision.
00:05:29.000It is what lawyers call a case or an issue of first impression.
00:05:44.000But they're trying to disbar him literally for offering that argument because in their mind, Charlie, as you know, that makes him a so-called insurrectionist.
00:05:52.000Yeah, and it's just, this is extraordinary stuff.
00:05:55.000And Josh, can you talk about the chilling effect this has in the legal community about how other lawyers are going to be less likely to defend the undesirable defendants because of this?
00:06:08.000We're going to have a brain drain on the right.
00:06:10.000Again, I'm not a fan of college, as you know, but the one defense of college I have is if you're super smart and you can get credentialed and then fight the commies, get to the best law school you can.
00:06:19.000But there's a brain drain already in the legal community, right, Josh?
00:06:22.000This will only further accelerate it where the best lawyers are just going to say, yeah, I don't want to represent you.
00:06:27.000Yeah, Charlie, I have these conversations with my fellow lawyer friends basically every day.
00:06:32.000I mean, look, I've taken a very different career path.
00:06:34.000I work in commentary and I write columns and speak and do all this stuff.
00:06:37.000But most of my fellow lawyer friends who are still practicing law, I mean, they're seriously looking at this stuff and they are asking themselves, hmm, you know, if I work at a law firm or if I work in a solicitor general's office in Ohio, Texas, Florida, California, wherever it may be, do I really want to uproot myself and my family and move to Washington, D.C. to work in the next Republican administration?
00:06:58.000If after it is over and after I have served my country, after I have served my cause, after I have fought for truth, justice in the American way, after that, I'm not even going to be employable.
00:07:07.000You know, firms back in my hometown are going to look at me and they're going to pass over me.
00:07:11.000I'm not going to be able to bring home food and bread to provide for my family.
00:07:15.000These are the real kind of conversations that many of my friends are having.
00:07:19.000I mean, these things have tangible human costs there, but that really is what they're trying to do.
00:07:23.000And that is why I'm so passionate about this.
00:07:29.000They are trying to cow into submission the entire next generation of right-of-center young lawyers and law school students who have any kind of aspirations for public service.
00:07:39.000They are trying to make it toxic to represent a high-profile Republican or to work anywhere near Republican or for that matter, broadly speaking, conservative circles.
00:07:48.000And like I said, it cannot stand because once upon a time, the left even understood this.
00:07:53.000I mean, look back in the middle of last century, Charlie, at the height of the civil rights movement.
00:07:57.000The NAACP would go down to the deep south and would represent black Americans at the height of Jim Crow.
00:08:03.000Once upon a time, the American left understood very well the imperative that every American deserves legal representation, no matter what your partisan identity, no matter who you are, what your beliefs are.
00:08:13.000They were arguably actually at the forefront of doing that during the civil rights movement, the American left.
00:08:20.000They went from the forefront with the NAACP, the ACLU, all of that 60, 70 years ago, back when the ACLU was still a liberal and not a woke totalitarian organization.
00:08:28.000And now today they're literally trying to disbar their political enemies and throw them in jail in Georgia in this case.
00:08:34.000Yeah, I just, I see so many people go to jail unnecessarily on the right, not because they don't have money, some of them, but they can't get the best counsel to defend them because of this.
00:08:47.000And we're seeing this infect the legal profession.
00:08:50.000And I just, Josh, I'm sure you could point to other instances of lawyers that did far worse than Eastman that did not get disbarment, right?
00:09:00.000That did not get the same sort of penalty here.
00:09:03.000Is there an appeal process ahead of John Eastman?
00:09:08.000So he's going to be able to appeal this decision.
00:09:10.000And, you know, I'm barred in Texas, not California.
00:09:13.000So I have no particular knowledge as to how exactly it works in the California bar system, but he will have a shot at appeal for sure within that California bar system.
00:09:22.000Unfortunately, Charlie, it's hard to be optimistic because the California bar, like most state bars, is co-opted by woke leftism.
00:09:29.000In fact, even Texas, where I'm barred, you would think that Texas would have at least a politically neutral bar.
00:09:37.000I sued the state bar of Texas on free speech First Amendment grounds as part of a public interest lawsuit about five years ago now, back in 2019, because even the Texas bar, where I was barred, they were taking our lawyer dues and they were cross-subsidizing woke left-wing activist causes.
00:09:52.000They were cross-subsidizing illegal immigration detention facilities on the southern border.
00:09:56.000They were cross-subsidizing all sorts of LGBT stuff that I and my co-plaintiffs were not supportive of.
00:11:48.000Well, first of all, Charlie, you mentioned Maureen Joe.
00:11:50.000It's worth pointing out, Mika Brzezinski, her father, who was a longtime neoliberal blob diplomat in D.C., was a pretty known anti-Semite.
00:12:00.000So, you know, Mika, I don't really follow her musings closely, but if she's very anti-Israel, it would not surprise me at all because her father, unfortunately, kind of.
00:12:08.000Well, I wouldn't say anti-let's just say critical of the, you know, like the regime critical programming, if that makes sense.
00:12:14.000Look, so what happened earlier this week, I mean, this Jose Andres mission, this, this world central kitchen strike, it's obviously terrible.
00:12:41.000I read about this morning that the two officers that they found who were culpable for ordering the strike, they misidentified what was happening on the ground and the IDF dismissed them.
00:12:48.000So those two officers are gone and they're not going to be involved in the combat here for the rest of the conflict.
00:12:53.000But I think it's important to zoom out a little bit here, Charlie.
00:12:56.000So there's a guy by the name of John Spencer.
00:12:59.000He's the head of urban warfare studies at West Points.
00:13:01.000We've published him in Newsweek, man, three or four times over the past few months.
00:13:07.000I think I saw him in the New York Post today.
00:13:09.000He's really getting himself out there.
00:13:10.000And the point that John has been making, and this is a guy who was on the ground in Mosul.
00:13:14.000He was there in Iraq in 2016, 2017, supervising the U.S. troops as part of their counterinsurgency against ISIS at the end of the Obama administration, early Trump administration.
00:13:24.000He is saying that there is no precedent in the history of any urban warfare that he has ever studied to what the IDF has been doing in Gaza.
00:13:30.000And he means that in a good sense of the term.
00:13:33.000From a combatant to civilian death ratio, according to his calculation, the ratio right now is about 1 to 1.5.
00:13:40.000Historically speaking, for urban warfare, that ratio was about 1 to 9.
00:13:44.000The United States in Mosul back in 2016, 2017 was about a 1 to 2.5, 1 to 3 ratio.
00:13:50.000So based on his study of the situation, there is truly nothing that Israel could be doing more to prevent civilian loss of life here.
00:13:57.000And look, the mission has to get done, Charlie.
00:14:00.000I mean, telling them to stop short of Rafah.
00:14:02.000So right now they've basically been in a holding pattern for really a month, maybe even more than a month now.
00:14:07.000They've been waiting to go into Rafah, which is the southernmost stronghold right on the border with Egypt, because they're trying to placate the Biden administration.
00:14:14.000Unfortunately, what we saw yesterday, especially with Joe Biden's call for a, quote, immediate ceasefire and Tony Blinken telling Israel not to be indistinguishable from their enemies, the genocidal Hamas organization, what we've seen is that the more that Netanyahu and the current Israeli government try to placate the Biden administration, the more that they are setting themselves up to be betrayed.
00:14:36.000So Israel's going to have to just rip this band-aid off, I fear.
00:14:39.000The Biden administration has been woeful, woeful on this conflict, I guess, out of domestic political considerations regarding Dearborn, Michigan.
00:14:46.000Israel is going to have to do what needs to be done.
00:14:49.000And ultimately, to your point, Charlie, they're doing the world a favor because Hamas remains a U.S.-designated FTO, a foreign terrorist organization.
00:14:58.000That is a federal government-recognized foreign terrorist organization.
00:15:02.000You know, right before I joined you on air today, I was scrolling through my Twitter feed.
00:15:05.000I saw that Hassan Nasrallah, who was the head of Hezbollah in Lebanon, he was saying that Israel is about to collapse because the Biden administration is putting so much pressure on it.
00:15:14.000When you've gotten to a place where another U.S.-recognized foreign terrorist organization with blood on its hands, going back to the Beirut barracks bombings in the 1980s, that's Hezbollah.
00:15:23.000When you get to a point where Hezbollah is praising the president of the United States for making your purported ally, Israel, close to collapsing, I mean, you throw your hands up and say, just what in the world is going on here?
00:15:34.000Yeah, I want to emphasize this one other time, Josh, because Biden's getting it from both sides.
00:15:40.000Some people are saying that Biden is too per-Israel.
00:15:42.000Some people are saying that he's too pro, you know, whatever, Hamas.
00:15:46.000Here's the thing is that he's arming and giving aid to Hamas while simultaneously saying he's for Israel.
00:16:28.000For years, I've been talking about how our nation's public schools have been captured by progressive ideologues, especially true if you're a Christian family.
00:16:34.000For those of you worried about the best educational path for your kids and grandkids, I want to tell you about how Turning Point Academy is working with the Herzog Foundation, how you at home can also benefit from it.
00:16:43.000They have an online publication called The Lion and also Making the Leap.
00:16:46.000The Herzog Foundation offers a wide range of advice and information for Christian parents to make the best education decisions for your kids.
00:17:07.000Okay, joining us now to discuss a very important story.
00:17:12.000He goes by Yang on social media, a researcher and religious sociologist and a grad student who is commenting on the story from the New Yorker, the meltdown at a middle school in a liberal town.
00:17:27.000So I saw this thread on the New Yorker, this post on the New Yorker that talked about this meltdown that we've been seeing all over all over America.
00:17:36.000Like it's Mamherst, Massachusetts in this case.
00:17:38.000It's like an affluent liberal, mostly like white liberals.
00:17:44.000There's like multiple universities there.
00:17:46.000So I think it's a perfect setting for the kind of, you know, this sort of cancel culture that we've been seeing over the past few years or so, where people would try to spar with each other over who gets to be, you know, the most oppressed or who gets to be, you know, the biggest victim.
00:18:04.000And that's what we've been seeing over this New York article.
00:18:07.000I thought it was very insightful and something very that we that needs to be shown because a lot of people don't know what's going on in these little towns.
00:18:16.000And I'm glad that I brought this tweet.
00:18:19.000I brought this story out into the world for all of all these people to see.
00:19:49.000And that's something, you know, I'm a researcher of religion.
00:19:52.000I've studied like religiosity between racial groups.
00:19:55.000And a lot of Latinos, a lot of black people are very religious, more religious than white people.
00:20:01.000And so a lot of them don't really like the... the transgender transgender ideology that's being pushed to these kids in schools because it goes against their religion.
00:20:14.000And so, and then the white liberals, they support both transgender, you know, ideology and they support, you know, we need to listen to black and brown voices.
00:20:24.000We need to, you know, white people should have to, you know, be silent, be respectful when a black person is speaking to you because, you know, you need to listen and learn to do the work.
00:20:35.000But then these ideologies kind of clash against each other.
00:20:39.000Because it turns out, yeah, it's an intersectional pileup, as it says.
00:22:16.000Well, that is exactly that's the question of who wins is exactly why this town is kind of is tearing itself apart, right?
00:22:24.000Because I mean, we saw this with like Dave Chappelle, for example.
00:22:27.000You know, he was a, he was a black comedian, but he said some things about the trans, about transgender individuals that a lot of people didn't like, or J.K. Rowling, you know, a feminist.
00:22:37.000Same thing with the trans issue again.
00:22:39.000You know, it's, it's like when these identities are pitted against each other, you know, sparks always fly.
00:22:45.000Spark, you know, there's always going to be drama because the pyramid isn't something that's like set in stone.
00:22:51.000It's not like, it's not like, you know, God, you know, sent down the 10 woke commandments, you know, and gave it to Moses on Mount Sina.
00:23:22.000So when I talk about this question of, you know, who's on top, in this case, we can see in this article, people are trying hard to strike the balance.
00:23:31.000And that's where, you know, the sparks are flying.
00:23:34.000It's like when you rub two sticks together, you get a fire, right?
00:23:38.000This fire, this conflagration that is breaking out here, where it's like blacks, black students and Latino students are bullying these white kids who identify as trans.
00:23:49.000But you would usually, you know, punish a bully, especially like a transphobic bully.
00:23:54.000But then these school administrators are like, we, we punish black and Hispanic kids too much.
00:24:02.000So what happens is that, you know, even though the white trans kid is getting bullied, they also have to take into account, you know, you know, systemic racism and, you know, all those they say.
00:24:16.000And so it's like, are we supposed to suspend this kid for being homophobic, for being transphobic?
00:24:42.000And who's going to win is just somewhat of a mystery.
00:24:45.000And I love how you talk about how it just waxes and wanes.
00:24:48.000It goes to show that there's really no core belief system, though.
00:24:53.000Is that it's almost like a social contagion, a fad that whatever the new thing is, you kind of, I mean, you're a philosopher, you're a researcher, you're, you know, you really understand this stuff.
00:25:03.000If you had to pinpoint a set of ideas, thinkers, authors that buttress this, what would you, what would you say?
00:25:12.000Or is it just kind of inherited social orthodoxies of the day?
00:25:18.000Well, I mean, there's, there's a lot of researchers that there's a lot of thinkers, a lot of philosophers that are behind these theories we see today, like, you know, Derek Bell, the founder of Critical Theory, or Judith Butler, you know, who wrote Gender Trouble.
00:25:44.000I mean, it's more descriptive than it is prescriptive.
00:25:47.000So yeah, you can say, oh, it was CRT that did this.
00:25:49.000But, you know, the sentiment was already there, but CRT just gave it a name for this already felt sentiment that, you know, there was this inequality between black and white and maybe Hispanics and Asians in the middle.
00:26:04.000And so these ideologies, you know, people like Derek Bell, people like Judith Butler simply label those ideologies and put them into words.
00:26:13.000And I think that's where the philosophical undercurrent runs.
00:26:16.000It starts from thinking and then it goes out into the academic journals.
00:26:26.000And what's interesting is that Amherst, dare I say, is like the Wuhan lab of COVID.
00:26:33.000It's like wokeism kind of comes out of places like Amherst.
00:26:36.000Like it is like the factory of the woke mind virus in the sense where like this is one of the quote unquote prestigious universities where they talk about wokeism, they talk about CRT, they talk about this trans stuff all the time.
00:26:50.000And they can't even govern themselves with that ideology.
00:26:53.000Is that one of the takeaways that it can't be even applied in their own city?
00:26:58.000Well, the thing about this ideology is that it always evolves.
00:27:03.000So it's hard to govern when you have an ideology that always evolves because one day you're doing something and then the next day it's actually problematic.
00:27:48.000You know, if you look my name up, Shili Yang Pen, or just call me Yang, you can see a lot of articles that I've written all about these issues.
00:27:56.000And that might fascinate, you know, that might interest the viewers of your show.
00:28:25.000And you had Al Charlatan on television this morning, Al Sharpton, say, oh, you know, they're going to, all the voters are going to leave the third party and come back.
00:28:32.000He is so disconnected from the American voter.
00:28:36.000I've said for a while, the way that we are seeing things trend in this country, the way that we are seeing the current trajectory is that people want more political options and that Cornell West, Jill Stein, by the way, breaking news, Jill Stein is going to be on the ballot in Michigan.
00:29:23.000I think the color green is one of the hot people's favorite colors.
00:29:27.000But they are going after RFK full force.
00:29:31.000And RFK, he doesn't seem to be mincing words.
00:29:34.000He does not think very highly of Joe Biden.
00:29:38.000He doesn't think highly of the Democrat regime.
00:29:40.000And you get this sense with Nicole Shanahan and his vice president, the media that he's doing, the way he's talking, that RFK is playing the long game, that this is chapter one in the book, RFK 2028, Play Cut 25.
00:29:55.000But do you really believe that when people talk about the threat to democracy that Trump poses, do you really think that that is, is it equal to Biden?
00:30:04.000Listen, I can make the argument that President Biden is a much worse threat to democracy.
00:30:11.000That President Biden is a much worse threat to democracy.
00:30:15.000Notorious left-wing blowhard, who named his entire media outlet after people who did the Armenian genocide, Chenk Unger came out, quote, for the first time today, I'm considering RFK Jr.
00:30:28.000RFK's right to be concerned about Biden being a threat to democracy.
00:30:32.000Biden did support anti-democratic movements within the primary.
00:30:36.000The party of democracy did not have a primary.
00:30:39.000The party of democracy is trying to sue to allow other candidates off the ballot.
00:30:44.000The party of democracy is doing everything they can to try to just make this a one-party state.
00:30:51.000Put Trump in prison, kick RFK off the ballot, threaten Cornell West, kick Jill Stein off the ballot.
00:30:56.000They don't want competition or the free flow of ideas.