00:00:22.000If you want to support our show, go to charliekirk.com/slash support.
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00:00:39.000So to high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.
00:01:00.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:07.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:28.000We are joined by someone that I was so moved by when I saw a segment for Conversation with Tucker Carlson, Kara Dansky, a self-described radical feminist.
00:01:42.000And I write all about them in a book called The Abolition of Sex, How the Transgender Agenda Harms Women and Girls.
00:01:48.000So what's wrong with the transgender movement?
00:01:50.000Why would a radical feminist care about that?
00:01:52.000Yeah, so, I mean, radical feminism is all about protecting the rights, privacy, and safety of women and girls.
00:01:58.000And we cannot do that as a movement if we cannot define the category of women and girls to exclude males.
00:02:05.000So I'm just so interested in this because it's rare to be able to talk to somebody like you because I've been saying, where are the feminists?
00:02:14.000And especially when you talk about this whole transgender issue, it would probably be the one group that should be the most vocal about this issue.
00:02:23.000Why is there a large amount of silence when it comes to this from most of the institutional feminist groups?
00:03:03.000So why shouldn't we call it the transgender dilemma ratio or whatever?
00:03:07.000So I write about in the last chapter of my book how several decades ago out of the academy, out of coming out of postmodernism, there was something called queer theory.
00:03:17.000And what queer theory essentially did was it decided that biological sex is not a binary.
00:03:25.000And it wanted to make that mainstream.
00:03:28.000But if it tried to go mainstream by telling average ordinary American citizens across the political spectrum that sex isn't real, it would have failed spectacularly because all Americans know how babies are made.
00:03:42.000And the word that they made up is transgender.
00:03:45.000And that word has done a remarkable job in persuading Americans, again, across the political spectrum, that there is some discrete, coherent category of people called transgender people who are somehow neither male nor female.
00:04:13.000that was used against lesbians and gay men.
00:04:16.000And then a lot of lesbian and gay men, gay men's groups wanted to reclaim it.
00:04:21.000But today, and I know that it might be difficult to believe, but there are a lot of lesbians and gay men who are saying no to including the T in the LGBT acronym.
00:04:33.000And they're very frustrated because for lesbians and gay men, biological sex is really relevant.
00:04:38.000You can't protect same-sex attraction if there's no such thing as actual sex.
00:04:44.000And those lesbians and gay men in particular are also reminding everyone exactly what you just said.
00:04:49.000Hey, there was a time when queer was a slur.
00:04:52.000Yeah, and that's what's so confusing kind of as an onlooker is that the whole idea of the gay movement was, you know, man and man, but then being able to define those terms.
00:05:02.000And so how are we got to a place where even defining the terms kind of sows confusion?
00:05:09.000If I could give one example, Apple iPhone says men could get pregnant.
00:05:20.000So the whole notion of pregnant men or pregnant people, which sadly some members of the United States Congress say, I would argue it is meant to confuse Americans.
00:05:31.000It is meant to make us forget that biological sex is grounded in material reality.
00:05:36.000If we can all be persuaded that men can get pregnant, then all of a sudden femaleness has been made distinct from pregnancy in our minds.
00:05:45.000Even though we all know it's not true, they're working really hard to persuade us that it is.
00:05:50.000Yeah, and so you have something on your shirt.
00:05:52.000Just can you explain that really quickly?
00:05:54.000So my shirt says woman, noun, adult, human, female.
00:05:59.000And just very quickly, this became a thing when in 2018, a woman in the United Kingdom named Kelly J. Keene put a poster proclaiming that on a big sign in Liverpool, England.
00:06:12.000And someone decided that that was offensive.
00:06:15.000The dictionary definition of woman is offensive and successfully campaigned to have it removed.
00:06:22.000And so she started an organization called Standing for Women, which markets stuff like this, t-shirts, umbrellas, pens, all sorts of things.
00:06:28.000And she's very much about standing up for the rights, privacy, and safety of women and girls.
00:06:34.000And I also just want to say, because your listeners have no reason to know this, opposition to gender identity in the UK is mainly coming from rank and file members of the Labor Party.
00:06:47.000Here, most of the opposition to gender identity is coming from the right, or appears to be coming from the right.
00:06:53.000Certainly in Congress, that's true, and in state legislatures.
00:06:56.000But there are rank-and-file Democrats all over the country who are so fired up and angry about this, but they don't get a voice because the media will not cover our angle.
00:08:03.000He sits on the Turning Point USA Advisory Board.
00:08:06.000Go to mypillow.com, promo code Kirk, mypillow.com, promo code Kirk.
00:08:12.000So let's talk about just some specific incidents, and you could go wherever you want with it and kind of connect it with the national theme.
00:08:18.000The University of Pennsylvania swimmer.
00:08:21.000This is an individual who was born a biological male, who is now competing as a female, winning every record possible.
00:08:29.000How did we get to a place where we were supposed to accept Jenner on the front page of Vanity Fair, so all of a sudden now we really don't have female sports anymore?
00:08:38.000So I went to UPenn Law, so this one is personal for me.
00:08:41.000I think it's perfectly fine to say that Leah Thomas is a man.
00:09:21.000So the Leah Thomas, man, your word, I agree, competing in this sport, maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen the institutional outrage that I thought I would see.
00:09:34.000I mean, the NCAA has completely sold out women and girls on this.
00:09:37.000When Thomas was competing, I believe the rule was that a male swimmer had to have taken testosterone suppression for one year before competing on a women's team.
00:09:48.000It has since changed and gotten worse.
00:09:50.000But the idea that a man can suppress testosterone for one year and then thereby compete on the women's team is so insulting to women and girls.
00:09:58.000We are not men with less testosterone.
00:10:04.000So that doesn't satisfy you because that's an argument I get from some of the activists.
00:10:08.000I'll go to a campus, I'll talk about the, they say, no, no, Charlie, they'll go through surgery, they'll take hormone blockers, all these different things, and then they kind of magically become a woman.
00:10:18.000It doesn't redesign the chromosomes unless there's some technology I'm unaware of.
00:10:41.000It's being reported that Thomas has made no other changes to his body and is changing in the women's locker room.
00:10:50.000But even if Thomas did make all those changes, no, he's still a man.
00:10:57.000And they lose their mind when you say that.
00:11:00.000And I guess your argument is regardless of how much effort or technology you apply to your material reality with how you're born, it doesn't matter.
00:11:09.000I mean, people can wear whatever they want.
00:11:50.000And a lot of times we're seeing incidents where parents, I'm sorry, teachers are doing what's called socially transitioning kids, which is referring to the kid by a different name, opposite sex pronouns, using the kid, letting the kid use the opposite sex bathrooms without parental knowledge.
00:12:16.000And so our young people are being put on puberty blockers using off-label uses.
00:12:22.000I don't know if you would like me to say more about that.
00:12:24.000So puberty blockers were invented to address a condition called precocious puberty.
00:12:30.000This is a condition experienced by some very small number of children where they enter puberty at a time when they're not emotionally or psychologically prepared to do so before their peers are.
00:12:41.000So doctors will delay puberty and these drugs exist and are approved by the FDA for that purpose.
00:12:47.000But now children who are actually entering puberty are being prescribed puberty blockers so that they do not have to go through their correct sex puberty.
00:12:56.000We do not know the long-term consequences of these drugs, except that we do know that a lot of these kids are getting sterilized at an age at which they ought not to be able to consent to such a thing.
00:13:08.000So in the state of Oregon, you can get sexual reassignment surgery, chemical castration, whatever you want to call it, without parental consent funded by taxpayers.
00:13:26.000Most parents don't even know that exists.
00:13:27.000So I want to talk about another kind of wrinkle of this, which is a lawsuit in California that is alleging a parent that the teachers were actually recruiting her daughter to become a man.
00:13:40.000So is there a concerted effort to like increase the population of transgender people?
00:13:46.000Well, see, so first of all, I just have to ask you what you mean by the category transgender.
00:14:02.000That is absolutely a very deliberate part of this whole agenda.
00:14:06.000There's another lawsuit happening in California, if I could just mention briefly.
00:14:09.000The Women's Liberation Front, on whose board I served from 2016 to 2020, is suing the state for its explicit policy, which Governor Newsom enacted in 2020, to allow convicted male prisoners and rapists to be housed in women's prisons on the basis of their so-called gender identity.
00:14:26.000I do not understand why this is not a national scandal.
00:14:37.000There have been hundreds of applications filed for male convicted prisoners and rapists to be housed in the women's prison with vulnerable women, many of whom have themselves been victims of sex.
00:14:48.000So this is not like a guy convicted of male fraud.
00:15:02.000In Washington State, not pursuant to state law, but pursuant to the Department of Corrections policy.
00:15:07.000There is a man who goes by the name Princess who was convicted, who was convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl being held in the women's prison.
00:15:16.000Most Americans have no idea that this is happening.
00:15:18.000This is a man who sodomized a minor who is in a woman's prison.
00:17:04.000So I want to ask you a couple things about that.
00:17:07.000And I hate to use these terms right and left because they're so kind of undefined, if you will.
00:17:12.000But kind of what has your speculation as to why this is such a high priority in the kind of cultural hierarchy?
00:17:20.000I mean, the aggression, the velocity that this movement is moving at is so disproportionate from actually the people that are either involved, personally involved in it.
00:17:32.000It seems as if there's pharmaceutical companies that are pushing this.
00:17:35.000What do you think is the reason this is such a high priority to get implemented everywhere and have children believe it and all sorts of things?
00:17:41.000I mean, I think you hit on something when you said pharma, right?
00:17:44.000I mean, who benefits from putting a lifetime's worth of young people on a lifetime's worth of hormones?
00:17:49.000There's a man named John Stryker who stands to inherit from a medical supply company, right?
00:17:56.000This is a multi-jillion dollar medical supply company that benefits from encouraging a lot of people to get medically unnecessary cosmetic surgeries.
00:18:05.000He is heir to that company, and he goes all over the place encouraging the quote-unquote LGBTQ agenda.
00:18:13.000He recently gave the ACLU $15 million in a one-time grant in March of 2021 to push LGBTQ.
00:18:21.000However, we have to understand that the ACLU does very little actual gay rights advocacy anymore.
00:18:27.000But they're very big into that particular issue.
00:19:00.000That is not, I don't know what that is, but that is not us.
00:19:02.000That is not me trying to fight for my rights as a same-sex attracted person.
00:19:07.000So what's your experience been since you've decided to speak out and like go on Tucker Carlson and dare talk to the American right personally or just kind of organizationally?
00:19:18.000What's your experience with that been?
00:19:20.000Yeah, so I mentioned I was on the board of Women's Liberation Front from 2016 to 2020.
00:19:24.000Now I'm the president of the U.S. chapter of Women's Declaration International, which anyone can find at women'sdeclarationusa.com.
00:19:32.000And this is really all that I work on all the time.
00:19:36.000But I was part of the American so-called progressive criminal justice reform movement for about 20 years.
00:19:41.000I worked at the ACLU between 2012 and 2014.
00:19:44.000I've been doing this almost exclusively since around 2016 or 17 or so.
00:19:51.000And I've lost a lot of people in my life.
00:19:53.000I basically can't get work in the criminal justice reform community anymore.
00:20:41.000I know a lot of people who have lost jobs.
00:20:42.000I know a woman who has been charged with a crime for putting a sticker up in a public area in her town that had a feminist, it said turf collective.
00:21:05.000I know a ton of women who have been, and men, but mostly women, who have been disciplined at their jobs, mostly in academia, but outside academia too.
00:21:13.000I know a woman who lost her job with her progressive art community in New York City.
00:21:18.000This is routine for women on the left who speak out.
00:21:21.000What I find so fascinating is you're a radical feminist.
00:21:26.000And we both so agree on this because we believe in material reality.
00:21:29.000And it's just kind of this interesting fusion moment, I suppose, of one of the top kind of priorities of this kind of cultural moment that we live in.
00:21:58.000I sat down at my laptop and I just made these.
00:22:01.000You can do this for the cost of however long it takes you to make a Word document on your laptop and print it out or go to FedEx, which is what I did in my case.
00:22:08.000Hand these out, leave them around, put them on community billboards.
00:22:27.000I really honestly think that if people could get this message and feel empowered to say that and to share that with another one of their colleagues or friends, we can do this.
00:22:37.000And it's going to take Americans across the political aisle.
00:22:42.000And so just, you know, in closing here, moms and dads are confused.
00:22:46.000They're sending these kids to schools.
00:22:48.000Basically, the point of this, though, I think what you're getting at, besides the actual brilliance of the messaging, is like, you got to be willing to kind of break some glass here.
00:23:01.000And the other thing that I like about this is that it's just communicating human being to human being.
00:23:06.000It's not like examining the various provisions of the Supreme Court cases that talk about this or the weird provisions of the so-called Equality Act.
00:23:14.000This is just a person talking to a person saying, hey, like we can have this conversation.
00:23:27.000You're such a persuasive voice on this.
00:23:29.000And I have been looking and looking and looking for feminists to start to rise up on this issue.
00:23:35.000Because I grew up in suburbs of Chicago around a lot of feminist activists that were always telling me there were differences between men and women.
00:23:44.000And I'm like, where are they right now?
00:23:46.000Well, you're one, you're courageous, and you make such persuasive arguments.
00:23:49.000So, how could people follow you by your book, your website, any of that?
00:23:52.000So, The Abolition of Sex, How the Transgender Agenda Harms Women and Girls is available both on Amazon and on Barnes Noble for anyone who doesn't want to buy off Amazon.