The Charlie Kirk Show - This Is What "Flood the Zone" Means

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, it's on the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Josh Hammer and Citizen Kane join the show to recount this amazing pace that we are living through, lawfare, solutions, and more.

00:00:09.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.

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00:00:20.000 That is members.charliekirk.com.

00:00:23.000 Buckle up everybody.

00:00:24.000 Here we go.

00:00:25.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:27.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:29.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:32.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:35.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:37.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:38.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:55.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:23.000 Joining us now is a great friend of the program.

00:01:25.000 We've been wanting to have him on for quite some time, and his website is popping off lately.

00:01:31.000 It is Mr. Kane from CitizenFreePress.com.

00:01:34.000 Mr. Kane, great to see you.

00:01:36.000 Yeah, great to be here, Charlie.

00:01:37.000 What a morning.

00:01:38.000 What a morning.

00:01:39.000 What a victory, Charlie.

00:01:41.000 Praise the Lord.

00:01:42.000 I mean, I want to just take a step back here, Kane.

00:01:44.000 I mean, you are...

00:01:47.000 Yeah, it's breathtaking, Charlie.

00:02:06.000 I never expected it.

00:02:07.000 You and I had these discussions.

00:02:09.000 We knew it was going to be aggressive.

00:02:10.000 We knew he was going to come hard and fast.

00:02:13.000 I don't think anyone had any idea what flood the zone would really mean.

00:02:18.000 And I don't think, you know, we anticipated the success of it and the idea, the philosophy behind giving them too many things to chase, too many ideas.

00:02:27.000 And yet I didn't anticipate that it was going to work this well.

00:02:31.000 You know, the resistance, it hasn't really been able to get started.

00:02:35.000 Yeah, we're starting to see some lawfare.

00:02:37.000 Judges are stepping in the way.

00:02:40.000 But for the most part, it's just been tears.

00:02:42.000 It's just been a trail of tears, of Democrat tears and media tears.

00:02:46.000 And it has to go back to the strategy.

00:02:50.000 And I'm sure, since I'm working all the time, I don't get an opportunity to listen to all of your sort of opening monologues.

00:02:57.000 But one of the things that's been sticking out to me these last three weeks is this is so much better than Trump 1.0.

00:03:05.000 We don't want to say that it was a good thing that the nation suffered for four years under Biden, but I guarantee you that we wouldn't have anything like this had Trump been able to assume office.

00:03:19.000 In 2021, he had four years to sit and think and ponder every department, every agency and how to attack this.

00:03:28.000 And the last thing I'll say is I throw back to you, you know, that we all love the Javier Milay and the chainsaw.

00:03:34.000 And I remember sort of cautioning people in, you know, leading up to it, to the inauguration, like, look, it's not going to be like that.

00:03:42.000 We aren't going to be able to cut agencies like they did in Argentina.

00:03:45.000 But I'll tell you, the Doge stuff and the Elon Musk stuff, it reminds me of Javier Malay.

00:03:52.000 It reminds me of Argentina.

00:03:54.000 It reminds me of winning.

00:03:57.000 And, you know, Cain, what do you make of the administration coming with such preparedness, such precision?

00:04:05.000 The executive orders, the pace, the rapidity.

00:04:09.000 I agree.

00:04:10.000 The time in exile, I think, was very good in a lot of different ways for us.

00:04:15.000 I mean, Cain, that's where you and I got to know each other, where we were the furthest away from the presidency imaginable.

00:04:20.000 When you and I started talking, when you started to come on this program, I mean, Cain, it was like Trump was like 12% in the betting odds to become president.

00:04:27.000 Remember?

00:04:28.000 I mean, he was invited and there was lawfare and you and I would talk late at night and say, man, I don't know about this.

00:04:34.000 I mean, he just crawled himself out of the impossible hole.

00:04:39.000 To a place where now he's the most popular person on the planet, most powerful person on the planet.

00:04:44.000 I think one of the inflection points was East Palestine, Ohio, when he went there.

00:04:48.000 And that was the beginning.

00:04:49.000 He's like, I'm going to go to forgotten America. 0.55

00:04:51.000 Biden is forgetting them.

00:04:53.000 Full court press.

00:04:54.000 And it's only going to get deeper and better.

00:04:56.000 So we have some amazing stories here on citizenfreepress.com.

00:05:01.000 And it seems as if the American people, Cain, are largely supporting this.

00:05:06.000 Yeah, they are.

00:05:08.000 And it's nice.

00:05:08.000 You and I are poll junkies.

00:05:10.000 We look at all of this stuff, even though we know to discount certain things.

00:05:16.000 But it's been phenomenal.

00:05:17.000 That CBS News poll that came out, incredible great news.

00:05:21.000 Margaret Brennan was not pleased.

00:05:23.000 You're right about how when I started coming on your show, it was DeSantis.

00:05:28.000 It was all DeSantis.

00:05:29.000 That was the talk.

00:05:30.000 As you said, Trump's...

00:05:32.000 Betting odds were low.

00:05:34.000 They were below 15%.

00:05:36.000 DeSantis looked like he was ascendant.

00:05:39.000 And yeah, you know, I'd sort of forgotten about East Palestine kicking that off. 0.92

00:05:44.000 But that created so much sort of angst and unrest and anger at the Biden administration.

00:05:50.000 And Trump came in and he sort of showed what a real president does.

00:05:55.000 I mean, he replaced Biden.

00:05:56.000 Biden never made it to East Palestine, at least not in those first eight months.

00:06:02.000 It obviously gave him time, but in terms of where we are now, three weeks later, if you had said to me a month ago, okay, Trump's going to go shock and awe, days of thunder, he's not going to stop, executive orders day after day, I wouldn't have thought that his poll numbers would be this good.

00:06:21.000 There's something I've got in the stack this morning, 42% of black men approve.

00:06:26.000 Unbelievable.

00:06:27.000 Yeah, it really is.

00:06:29.000 And Trump's, you know, it's the expansion of the populist base from white working class to black working class, Hispanic working class, and Asian working class.

00:06:38.000 That's sort of, you know, what we're looking at.

00:06:40.000 We're thinking bigger, you know, where is this going to go in 2028?

00:06:43.000 Can we maintain the hold on the House, Senate, and the presidency?

00:06:47.000 And it's looking good for populist, you know, for populism, for nationalist populism.

00:06:54.000 Everything is sort of falling in order.

00:06:55.000 The media is even being.

00:06:57.000 You know, though he's still being attacked, the media isn't being as aggressive as they used to be because they're seeing these approval ratings.

00:07:04.000 And it's just sort of all coming together.

00:07:06.000 500 executive orders, I think, we've had.

00:07:09.000 500 in three weeks.

00:07:11.000 These are big numbers, and we didn't see it coming.

00:07:15.000 And you and I, you know, we started in the darkness of future indictments.

00:07:20.000 I mean, that's when I started coming on.

00:07:22.000 Yes.

00:07:22.000 It was, how is Trump going to handle these indictments?

00:07:24.000 We had you on every week, sometimes multiple times a week.

00:07:28.000 And everybody in this audience deserves incredible credit for how you had the resolve and you stayed focused.

00:07:35.000 Let's talk about Bobby Kennedy came.

00:07:36.000 What do you think was the significance of Bobby Kennedy's role in this last election, and what does this mean for the Republican Party moving forward, him as Secretary of Health and Human Services?

00:07:49.000 Boy, that feels good to say.

00:07:51.000 Yeah, it does.

00:07:51.000 I think it's five points.

00:07:53.000 It's four or five points, Charlie.

00:07:55.000 He brought independents.

00:07:56.000 We were looking at the independent numbers before Kennedy came aboard, and they were not that strong.

00:08:01.000 They were more or less closely split between Trump and the Democrat, Trump and Kamala.

00:08:07.000 So I think that may have made the difference in Pennsylvania.

00:08:10.000 There's so many things.

00:08:11.000 It's very difficult to pinpoint.

00:08:12.000 Everyone worked.

00:08:13.000 TPUSA worked.

00:08:15.000 Scott Pressler worked.

00:08:16.000 We had sort of massive grassroots.

00:08:19.000 But in the bigger picture, the bigger above-board picture, the Kennedy coming on to Team Trump, endorsing Trump, that's four points of independence.

00:08:29.000 And we saw it in the numbers.

00:08:31.000 We saw it immediately within the next week.

00:08:33.000 So it was a beautiful decision.

00:08:34.000 And I'll even admit, I was...

00:08:36.000 You know, when Kennedy first stuck his head in the ring, going back, you know, long before he endorsed Trump, I was ready for Trump to take him as vice president.

00:08:44.000 This is long before J.D. Vance.

00:08:46.000 And that'll show people sort of how wide my berth can be.

00:08:50.000 I knew how important.

00:08:52.000 I know how many independent, sort of left-leaning independents, normally voting Democrat.

00:08:57.000 These people loved Kennedy.

00:08:59.000 And getting him on our team was huge.

00:09:01.000 And getting him through the Senate was huge.

00:09:03.000 And the last thing I'll say as I'll follow through, you know, Charlie, there was less...

00:09:08.000 There was less resistance to Kennedy and Tulsi Gabbard.

00:09:12.000 Why?

00:09:13.000 Because of what happened with Pete Hegseth.

00:09:15.000 And a lot of that is you and TPUSA. You know, we sort of put our hair up on the back of our necks and we said, look, guys, if you're not going to go along with the MAGA agenda, this is what we're going to do to you.

00:09:26.000 We don't know who it's going to be, but it's going to be powerful and we're going to primary you guys.

00:09:31.000 And they got in line, Charlie.

00:09:33.000 They got in line and they did what the American people wanted.

00:09:37.000 So, Kane, we also now have Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence.

00:09:41.000 We have this incredible team of superstars filling this administration, and the pace is only going to increase.

00:09:49.000 I hope everyone understands.

00:09:50.000 Get used to this tempo.

00:09:52.000 People say, oh, it's not sustainable.

00:09:53.000 No, no, no, no, no.

00:09:54.000 This is the tempo without the cabinet.

00:09:56.000 Imagine the tempo.

00:09:57.000 By the way, can we just brag on how great Marco Rubio has been?

00:10:00.000 I mean, can we just say how great Pete Hegseth has been?

00:10:03.000 I mean, this is the big three.

00:10:04.000 I hope you guys understand.

00:10:05.000 I got three people that I just can't say enough good stuff about.

00:10:08.000 Marco's been a 10. Pete Hegseth has been a 10. And J.D. Vance has been a 10. As we do this program right now, Donald Trump is calling shots.

00:10:14.000 He's the offensive coordinator.

00:10:15.000 He is the...

00:10:16.000 Air traffic controller.

00:10:18.000 We got Marco Rubio solving all the Nicaraguan, Guatemalan, Venezuelan, Colombian problems, which is immense because all the migration stuff starts there.

00:10:25.000 He's speaking Spanish to them and speaking true to them.

00:10:27.000 We got Pete Hegseth doing PT with our troops at 0500, where Lloyd Austin couldn't walk up a flight of stairs.

00:10:34.000 And on the other side, we got J.D. Vance.

00:10:35.000 He was in Paris, he's going to Dachau, and now he's doing Munich tomorrow, giving one of the most important speeches for a sitting vice president in...

00:10:44.000 In modern American history, I mean, Kane, minute and a half remaining, have we ever seen a rock star roster of all-stars simultaneously fighting for the Republic?

00:10:53.000 Meanwhile, you got Elon Musk going around with a metaphorical hammer, breaking every piece of government waste he can get in contact with.

00:10:59.000 Kane.

00:11:00.000 I know.

00:11:00.000 It's a beautiful thing, man.

00:11:01.000 You made all my points for me.

00:11:03.000 With Rubio, it's the Spanish. 0.99

00:11:04.000 That's what stuck out to me, is he's going to these countries, he's speaking their language, they're loving him, they're accepting him, and Malai sort of paved the way, so that's beautiful.

00:11:16.000 Hegseth, as you said, working out PT. Lloyd Austin would have been wearing two masks and a visor.

00:11:23.000 You've got J.D. Vance making history in Europe.

00:11:27.000 Sort of the populism is following him.

00:11:30.000 You've got Musk, as you said, with the hammer and Russ Vogt.

00:11:33.000 These guys are making, you know, Charlie, you're young, but I know a lot of why you got into politics and started TPUSA is the debt.

00:11:40.000 Right?

00:11:40.000 The national debt is that overall issue that young people pay attention to.

00:11:44.000 And so to watch this stuff happen, you've seen my headlines, Charlie.

00:11:47.000 I've been waiting for this stuff for 25 years.

00:11:49.000 The whole reason I'm interested in politics, the national debt.

00:11:52.000 When I was working at CNN at age 21, that's where I got sort of scooped in on the national debt.

00:11:57.000 And Charlie, it was $2 trillion.

00:11:59.000 And I was freaking out about $2 trillion.

00:12:02.000 It's $37 trillion now, as you know.

00:12:04.000 So I've never seen anything like it.

00:12:06.000 I agree the action will not stop.

00:12:09.000 You know, I'm the guy covering it 18 hours a day, and there's no break.

00:12:13.000 There's no slowdown.

00:12:14.000 I love it, Charlie.

00:12:15.000 I love it.

00:12:16.000 Kane, excellent work.

00:12:18.000 CitizenFreePress.com.

00:12:19.000 That is CitizenFreePress.com.

00:12:21.000 Excellent.

00:12:21.000 Thank you so much.

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00:13:40.000 Okay, there is a very successful podcast called Pod Save America, and it is hosted by the Obama bros.

00:13:50.000 Dan Pfeiffer, Tommy Vitter, Jon Favreau, and Jon Leavitt.

00:13:56.000 And here they are on this clip, and we're going to keep, it's a longer clip, but I want to go through it with you, lamenting.

00:14:02.000 But oh, we should have done this when we were in office.

00:14:05.000 And this is a perfect picture of kind of the Democrat mind.

00:14:09.000 Now hilariously, this is the type of person that can't get hired at the top of a Democrat administration anymore.

00:14:16.000 But you can kind of see that they're...

00:14:18.000 Kind of in charge of the limp-wristed mafia over there.

00:14:20.000 It's not a lot of spirit.

00:14:22.000 Because you can see that as they're lamenting over Doge, it's the perfect picture into what's wrong with the Democrat Party.

00:14:29.000 Oh, we should have.

00:14:31.000 We could have.

00:14:32.000 Why didn't we?

00:14:33.000 It's because they're missing that kind of masculine energy to go forth and to change.

00:14:39.000 Watch this clip very carefully.

00:14:41.000 These were all of kind of senior aides to Barack Obama.

00:14:44.000 Again, their podcast is very popular, and I respect that.

00:14:48.000 But they're going through talking about how what Elon Musk is doing is working, that they wanted to do some of this stuff, and they couldn't, and that Gen Z likes it.

00:15:00.000 Very telling clip here.

00:15:02.000 Playcut 182, keep my mic on.

00:15:04.000 And also, as much as I want to throw all of Trump's campaign promises in his face, like the price of eggs is not down, you have not ended the war in Ukraine, et cetera, et cetera.

00:15:13.000 You said he'd do it in 24 hours.

00:15:14.000 I think most voters get that it was a shtick and they're going to give him some time to actually get things done.

00:15:21.000 Trump is, like, he is moving so fast.

00:15:25.000 They are doing a lot.

00:15:26.000 It's not just the perception of it.

00:15:28.000 They hit the ground running in a serious...

00:15:31.000 It's like genuinely impressive.

00:15:33.000 Impressive in a dark and sinister way.

00:15:35.000 But it's nonetheless impressive.

00:15:37.000 And if you're turning on the news every day and hearing about all these different things Trump is doing and all the different criticisms coming out of it, you may not like all of it, but like in comparison to how people felt about Joe Biden being basically absent.

00:15:47.000 How they felt?

00:15:47.000 I imagine for a lot of people it's a welcome change.

00:15:50.000 The energy and he's assigning things and he's affecting all that.

00:15:52.000 I think that is playing extraordinarily well.

00:15:55.000 I know.

00:15:55.000 You don't want to seem like you're opposed to government efficiency.

00:15:58.000 Oh yeah.

00:15:58.000 But obviously now they're just rampaging through like.

00:16:00.000 The government Venmo and shutting...

00:16:02.000 Yeah.

00:16:03.000 I'm not saying they're wrong.

00:16:04.000 I'm just lamenting our situation.

00:16:05.000 Me too.

00:16:06.000 No, I felt the same way because I've seen the messaging memos and it's like, you know, the young people, Gen Z, they like Doge and what Elon's doing because, you know, they don't see – they see government as sclerotic and inefficient and they like the move fast and break things ethos and they want to get stuff done and they like the results.

00:16:22.000 It's like, yeah, we – yes, of course.

00:16:25.000 We all want that.

00:16:26.000 We all know that government is slow.

00:16:27.000 We all know that government can be inefficient.

00:16:29.000 We all know that the bureaucracy can be bloated.

00:16:31.000 We all worked in the – In the White House, we tried to reorganize the government.

00:16:34.000 And you didn't.

00:16:34.000 We tried to find efficiency.

00:16:35.000 Because you couldn't.

00:16:35.000 It's hard to do.

00:16:36.000 And honestly, some of this is pretty annoying because it's some of the stuff we should have done.

00:16:39.000 Right, yeah.

00:16:40.000 Like, you know, you could do some of this.

00:16:41.000 And then you just got to talk Gen Z to him.

00:16:42.000 You're like, I can dig these Doja cats. 0.53

00:16:45.000 Oh my God.

00:16:46.000 That was horrible.

00:16:47.000 Oh no.

00:16:48.000 You see, you got Jon Favreau.

00:16:50.000 Well, we wanted to do this, but we couldn't, and it's really frustrating.

00:16:53.000 And I don't know why we couldn't do it.

00:16:57.000 And you got that other guy.

00:16:58.000 I don't even know his name.

00:16:59.000 This is really frustrating.

00:17:00.000 I know it's very important because these are mid-level managers that have graduated to podcasting.

00:17:08.000 And they found themselves on the losing end of every single 70-30 issue.

00:17:11.000 But understand, you got masculine, determinative, go-forth-and-conquer, go-west-young-man energy that is now in the White House.

00:17:20.000 That's not this little mid-level management ethos.

00:17:26.000 I mean, you got a bunch of femboys over there. 1.00

00:17:28.000 That's what the Democrat Party is.

00:17:30.000 Well, maybe we have to have a little bit of a council and a committee and we can't offend other people.

00:17:35.000 We wanted to do it.

00:17:36.000 But you couldn't do it.

00:17:37.000 You don't have what it takes.

00:17:38.000 You don't have the intestinal fortitude.

00:17:40.000 You don't have the grit.

00:17:41.000 You don't have the spine.

00:17:42.000 It's not just about ideas and policies.

00:17:44.000 It's about do you have the DNA and the fiber and the Democrat Party doesn't.

00:17:47.000 That's the best that they have to offer.

00:17:50.000 But of course they took after their boss.

00:17:52.000 Obama.

00:17:53.000 Obama was just there as a mid-level manager.

00:17:55.000 Community organizer type.

00:17:57.000 And now they're realizing they're losing.

00:17:59.000 Oh, yes, they are.

00:18:00.000 Doge is incredibly popular.

00:18:02.000 It's popular with young people.

00:18:03.000 It's popular with people of all ages, but especially Gen Z. Because yes, we should break government.

00:18:08.000 It doesn't work for you.

00:18:09.000 We're borrowing trillions of dollars that we don't have.

00:18:12.000 And the Pod Save America femboys, they should be lamenting their position. 0.99

00:18:17.000 It doesn't look too good for them.

00:18:20.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:19:22.000 Joining us now is Josh Hammer, senior editor-at-large from Newsweek and host of The Josh Hammer Show.

00:19:28.000 There is a lot going on with the judicial activism right now that needs to be explained.

00:19:35.000 There's a new article from Unheard by Josh Hammer.

00:19:37.000 Anti-Trump judges spark a legal crisis.

00:19:41.000 They're the ones sparking a legal crisis.

00:19:43.000 Josh, welcome to the program.

00:19:45.000 What are your thoughts?

00:19:46.000 Charlie, first of all, I think judicial activism is probably, if anything, a charitable way of describing what we're seeing unfold here, my friend.

00:19:52.000 I mean, this, if anything, is a judicial insurrection.

00:19:55.000 I mean, this happened during the first Trump administration.

00:19:58.000 So I think back all the way, actually, to the year 2018-2019.

00:20:02.000 It was in the latter years of the Trump presidency that the number of nationwide injunctions that were imposed against the Trump presidency actually then exceeded all the previous presidents combined.

00:20:13.000 In fact, Bill Barr, back when he was attorney general, Gave a speech to the American Legal Institute, the Law Reform Institute, actually decrying the practice of nationwide injunction.

00:20:23.000 So this is not the first time this has happened to President Trump in power.

00:20:27.000 But those judges have not learned their lesson from the first time.

00:20:31.000 Partially that's because SCOTUS has derelicted its duty.

00:20:33.000 The Supreme Court has not actually taken a case, Charlie, as to whether or not any of this is constitutional in the first place.

00:20:39.000 And I guess I'll kind of just cut right to the chase there on that point and say that no.

00:20:43.000 No, none of this is legal.

00:20:44.000 None of this is constitutional.

00:20:45.000 The media, Charlie, day in and day out, they're accusing Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and Elon Musk of fomenting a constitutional crisis because they're governing with all these executive orders.

00:20:55.000 They're having Elon Musk go into the treasury payment system there.

00:20:58.000 First of all, Republican administrations, conservatives in general, Charlie, we're constitutionals.

00:21:03.000 We respect the separation of powers.

00:21:04.000 We respect the rule of law.

00:21:06.000 If there is an actual action that exceeds the legitimate confines of a sphere of governance, then that is where the judiciary comes in to reign in.

00:21:12.000 But what judges are doing right now all across the country on basically everything that Donald Trump has done since he came into power, everything from birthright citizenship to Elon Musk and Doge going into the treasury payments there, Judge McConnell in Rhode Island threatening criminal contempt, criminal content of the Trump administration.

00:21:28.000 Unless they subject all of their discretionary spending and funding decisions through his puny little judicial desk there deep in the bowels of the very blue state of Rhode Island there.

00:21:37.000 This is wildly beyond the judicial power of which Article 3 of the Constitution speaks.

00:21:43.000 And I know that because people have been writing about this actually for a very long time.

00:21:47.000 We can go all the way back to Thomas Jefferson at least in 1804 writing a letter to Abigail Adams, the wife famously of his partisan rival John Adams.

00:21:56.000 Thomas Jefferson famously said that to allow the judiciary to settle all questions, even when it comes to the legitimate authority of the other branches of the Congress or the executive branch, would be to risk despotism.

00:22:08.000 Abraham Lincoln really said it best in his first inaugural address in 1861, where he said that the candid citizen must confess that where you have ordinary litigation between two parties and that that somehow results in fixing national policy for all of the people throughout the land because a court says so, that...

00:22:25.000 At that point, the people will have ceased to be their own rulers because they will have allowed that eminent tribunal, a.k.a.

00:22:33.000 the court, to be a juristocracy.

00:22:35.000 This is judicial supremacy, but that is not the American system of governance there.

00:22:40.000 Judges, Charlie, in our system of governance, in our constitutional structure, judges have the power to bind the parties to a case.

00:22:47.000 Period.

00:22:48.000 Full stop.

00:22:49.000 End of story.

00:22:49.000 Anything beyond that, it is persuasive authority that can or cannot be listened to depending on whether the legal reasoning is cogent and coherent.

00:22:56.000 But the executive, the executive branch has every ability in the world to faithfully interpret the Constitution and to enforce the Constitution within their legitimate sphere of influence.

00:23:06.000 The birthright citizenship thing would be a very good example there.

00:23:09.000 SCOTUS has never definitively ruled one way or the other as to whether or not there is birthright citizenship for the children of illegal aliens, aka anchor babies. 0.99

00:23:17.000 In fact...

00:23:18.000 There's a lot of evidence that there is – that that's not supposed to be – that is not constitutionally required.

00:23:23.000 So because that's an unresolved question, the executive can 1,000 percent choose to enforce its own understanding.

00:23:29.000 At some point sooner rather than later, basically ASAP here, the United States Supreme Court is going to have to take a direct challenge to the entire practice of so-called nationwide injunctions.

00:23:39.000 And as Clarence Thomas alluded to in his concurring opinion back in the 2018 case of Trump versus Hawaii, the landmark immigration case, as Thomas said in his – So, in practice, I think the most concrete thing that SCOTUS can do is to say that...

00:24:03.000 Nationwide injunctions are actually not a thing.

00:24:06.000 And I think to this Law Review article here, I guess we'll nerd out just for a second here.

00:24:10.000 So there was a Law Review article in the Harvard Law Review in December 2017 by a fantastic conservative legal scholar by the name of Sam Bray.

00:24:16.000 He's actually currently teaching in Notre Dame Law School.

00:24:18.000 Probably the single greatest piece of legal scholarship on the question of so-called nationwide injunctions.

00:24:23.000 And he just persuasively demonstrates over the course of this legal scholarship that it's not a thing there because, again, the injunctive power, when courts are issuing an injunction, what they are doing in actuality is they are telling a certain defendant and a certain plaintiff that their actions...

00:24:41.000 With respect to each other, have to go a certain way.

00:24:44.000 But it does not reach beyond the ammit of the name defendant and the name plaintiff there.

00:24:48.000 This is a modern thing.

00:24:50.000 There was no such thing as a nationwide injunction until the 1960s.

00:24:54.000 That was the very first recorded instance of one in the late 1960s, I think during the Lyndon Johnson presidency, maybe even the Nixon presidency there.

00:25:01.000 But it didn't explode into being until the very, very latter years of the Obama presidency and then really, in actuality, during the Trump presidency.

00:25:09.000 This became a thing due to partisan lawfare.

00:25:12.000 It is just lawfare by any other means.

00:25:14.000 They lost the lawfare against Donald Trump the last couple of years with Jack Smith and Fonnie Willis and Alvin Bragg.

00:25:20.000 And now they're basically just trying lawfare by any other means.

00:25:23.000 So SCOTUS has the ability here.

00:25:25.000 They have every ability in the world to say the nationwide injunctions are not a thing.

00:25:29.000 Additionally, I'll say this as well, Congress.

00:25:32.000 Congress, which is currently governed by Republicans last I checked, they have a ton of power, a ton of power to reign in the lower courts basically in any way possible there. 0.94

00:25:41.000 These lower courts, Charlie, I clerked on one.

00:25:43.000 I clerked on the Fifth Circuit based in New Orleans, Louisiana.

00:25:45.000 All these lower courts actually don't even have to exist.

00:25:48.000 They solely exist at Congress's discretion.

00:25:50.000 The only court in America that has to exist is a Supreme Court there.

00:25:54.000 They can also take very petty, retributive, punitive action, Congress, if they want to.

00:25:58.000 So one kind of funny example that I like to use, if Congress...

00:26:01.000 Congress wanted to say that you, Mr. Justice or Mr. Judge, are not allowed to use taxpayer dollars to dry clean your judicial robe just as a way to humiliate you or embarrass you.

00:26:11.000 They can do that.

00:26:11.000 Congress has the ability to regulate the lower courts a lot.

00:26:15.000 And frankly, I think it's about time that they do it.

00:26:17.000 Judicial impeachment as well, I think, would be another very, very powerful tool.

00:26:20.000 That day has probably come.

00:26:21.000 We really should see those impeachment articles filed ASAP, I think, from Jim Jordan and House Judiciary.

00:26:27.000 But can they remove the judges, or impeachment, that's just kind of a slap on the wrist?

00:26:31.000 Because it seems as if they're basically permanently in there.

00:26:34.000 Well, they would have to be convicted by the Senate.

00:26:36.000 So that's, you know, therein lies the rub, right?

00:26:38.000 I mean, the votes may or may not be there in the Senate.

00:26:41.000 I'm not going to confidently predict that the votes would in fact be there.

00:26:46.000 But at a bare minimum, I think it would be a serious black mark there.

00:26:50.000 And, you know, look, judges are people that went to law school.

00:26:53.000 They climbed through the ranks of the legal profession there.

00:26:55.000 They do care about things like black marks.

00:26:58.000 It is an actual kind of notch on the resume, right?

00:27:00.000 So, I mean, even if it is purely symbolic, if it dies in the House.

00:27:03.000 It's not even taken up by John Thune, although I think it probably would be taken up at least in the Senate there, bring it to a vote at a bare minimum, get Democrats on the record.

00:27:10.000 At a bare minimum there, it would be at least a pretty sizable, symbolic shot across the bow against one of these activist left-wing lower court judges there, and it would be a nice civics lesson, frankly, for the American people as well.

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00:28:27.000 So Josh, if you were to paint a picture here of a full court press to counter this...

00:28:36.000 Juristocracy.

00:28:36.000 I love that term.

00:28:37.000 What would that look like?

00:28:39.000 So there's, I think it's in all three branches at once gang up on these rogue lower courts.

00:28:46.000 So we can start with the United States Supreme Court itself, and then we'll kind of work our way backwards from Article 3 to Article 1, I suppose.

00:28:51.000 So we'll start with Article 3 there.

00:28:53.000 So the easiest way to rein in lower court judges is for the United States Supreme Court to do so, because the federal judiciary actually does work as a legitimate hierarchy where SCOTUS has the ability to do whatever it wants to, and essentially its discretionary power, to overturn lower court judges that are running and essentially its discretionary power, to overturn lower court judges that are running amok and So they can and they must take a direct challenge to the entire practice of a so-called nationwide injunction, and they should declare that that exceeds the judicial power of which Article 3 speaks.

00:29:22.000 The Supreme Court should also expedite some of these other cases on the actual underlying substantive constitutional merits.

00:29:27.000 So for example, the birthright citizenship case is a very good example there.

00:29:31.000 We've now had three lower court judges that have put a temporary restraining order or some sort of other injunctive relief and joining the Trump administration, preventing it from enforcing its correct interpretation of birthright citizenship for children of illegal alien scope.

00:29:44.000 SCOTUS should fast-track an oral argument on that.

00:29:47.000 They should get that opinion out by the end of this term in June there.

00:29:50.000 I'm not going to confidently predict that there are five votes for the correct interpretation there.

00:29:55.000 I tend to be a little bit of a pessimist when it comes to that particular issue there, but there's at least a possibility.

00:30:00.000 So that thing should be fast-tracked.

00:30:01.000 Kind of working your way backwards, the executive branch there.

00:30:04.000 Well, I mean, let's take Judge McConnell in Rhode Island, Charlie, just for example here.

00:30:07.000 So this judge in Rhode Island is threatening to put criminal contempt there.

00:30:11.000 So at that point, the Trump administration should basically just flip its fingers at this judge and say, okay, you and what army?

00:30:17.000 I mean, who's actually going to enforce this criminal contempt?

00:30:20.000 Now we're getting down to the essence of it, which is let Marshall send his army.

00:30:25.000 Now we're getting down.

00:30:27.000 But that, I hate to say it, Mr. Hammer, that is actually a constitutional crisis, isn't it?

00:30:34.000 Well, let's just play it out a little further, Charlie.

00:30:37.000 So look, the judge in Rhode Island, Judge McConnell here, he's threatening criminal contempt here.

00:30:42.000 OK, so who's actually going to enforce this criminal contempt?

00:30:45.000 That would probably be one of the U.S. marshals, right?

00:30:47.000 Because as Hamilton says in Federalist 78, the judiciary has neither force nor will but merely judgment and literally depends upon the efficacy of the executive branch even to enforce its judgments.

00:30:57.000 What he means by that is because the U.S. marshals, in actuality, they're not part of Article 3.

00:31:02.000 They're part of Article 2.

00:31:03.000 They're actually part of the Department of Justice.

00:31:05.000 as the U.S. Marshals sit under Attorney General Pam Bondi.

00:31:08.000 So even if McConnell, Judge McConnell, that is not Senator McConnell, Judge McConnell can get a U.S. Marshal to try to enforce his contempt order.

00:31:15.000 Fine.

00:31:16.000 Let that play out.

00:31:17.000 Donald Trump can then just issue a pardon.

00:31:18.000 Make everyone happy.

00:31:19.000 He can literally then just issue a pardon for whichever official has been found in contempt by this rogue judge.

00:31:24.000 End of story.

00:31:25.000 Constitutional crisis totally averted there.

00:31:27.000 And then finally, Article 1, when it comes to Congress, that's kind of what you and I were just talking about there.

00:31:31.000 Judicial impeachment.

00:31:32.000 Start with Judge McConnell.

00:31:33.000 Start with Judge Engelmeyer in New York City, this other rogue judge who had that ridiculous ruling about Elon Musk and Doge when it comes to the Treasury payments.

00:31:40.000 Those would be two good candidates to get these articles of impeachment rolling there.

00:31:43.000 And then I would also support literally just possibly stripping some of these lower court judgeships there when you actually start to make the other judges feel the heat, because if you are removing certain judgeships, by definition, you're going to then move some cases from their docket to the other docket.

00:31:59.000 Judges will get the message sooner rather than later.

00:32:01.000 There are ultimately people that are not going to be wanting to literally work 24-7 there.

00:32:05.000 They want to sleep and eat and see the wife and kids like anyone else there.

00:32:09.000 So when you really start kind of putting some meat on the bone, so to speak, here with the congressional tools, I think you'll start to see a good response as well.

00:32:16.000 Josh, more broadly, what do you make of how this administration has been governing?

00:32:21.000 The tempo, the pace, the spirit?

00:32:23.000 What is your take?

00:32:25.000 Charlie, it's been a beautiful sight to behold.

00:32:29.000 It has been absolutely fantastic.

00:32:32.000 You know, it kind of reminds me of what Steve Bannon said once during the first Trump administration when Steve famously said that the way to deal with the corporate media and the Democratic elected official class is to flood the zone.

00:32:43.000 Flood it.

00:32:44.000 I'm a big sports fan.

00:32:47.000 That's a football term.

00:32:48.000 Steve is borrowing that from football.

00:32:50.000 And it makes perfect sense.

00:32:52.000 That's what they're doing day in and day out, Charlie.

00:32:54.000 I mean, there's been so many executive orders that my buddy Will Scharf, the White House staff secretary, who I've been friends with for years, we literally co-founded Jews Against Soros together two years ago.

00:33:03.000 I mean, Will's become a household name because every day on cable TV you see him handing off the executive orders.

00:33:09.000 It's incredible stuff there.

00:33:10.000 I love it.

00:33:11.000 Keep them with the head on a permanent swivel there.

00:33:13.000 Make sure they have no idea what's going on.

00:33:16.000 There's something one day, there's something else the next day there.

00:33:18.000 But he's doing dynamic stuff, Charlie.

00:33:20.000 And the best part is it's working.

00:33:22.000 The Canada-Mexico tariffs, Panama getting out of China's Belt and Road Initiative there, the stuff in Gaza, I guess we'll see what happens there.

00:33:29.000 But there is so much good stuff happening, I'm honestly starting to lose track of it myself.

00:33:32.000 Josh Hammer, everyone check out The Josh Hammer Show.

00:33:35.000 Josh, I'll be seeing you next week in Phoenix for the Hillsdale event.

00:33:37.000 Look forward to it.

00:33:38.000 Thanks so much.

00:33:38.000 Looking forward to it, Charlie.

00:33:40.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:33:41.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charlotschurch.com.

00:33:44.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - February 14, 2025

This Is What "Flood the Zone" Means

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