The Charlie Kirk Show - Thomas Massie: Hero or Villain?

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.

00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.

00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.

00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.

00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter.

00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter.

00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.

00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.

00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.

00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.

00:00:45.000 Here I am.

00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.

00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

00:00:56.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

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00:01:13.000 That is NobleGoldInvestments.com.

00:01:17.000 All right.

00:01:17.000 Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:19.000 It is Monday, May 18th, 2026.

00:01:23.000 Hope you guys had a great weekend.

00:01:24.000 I know I actually relaxed a little bit.

00:01:27.000 It was truly, truly amazing.

00:01:29.000 I don't know.

00:01:30.000 I asked you how your weekend was, and Blake, in customary fashion, said it was fine.

00:01:36.000 That's about all I got out of Blake.

00:01:38.000 Uh, All right, so breaking news that we want to get to here.

00:01:41.000 Lots to cover this morning.

00:01:43.000 We've got Eric Metaxas, who was at the Rededicate 250 at the half hour.

00:01:49.000 Then we've got Alex Marlowe from Breitbart.

00:01:51.000 We're going to talk politics and primaries and all that stuff.

00:01:53.000 We've got Massey. 0.56

00:01:54.000 We've got Cassidy. 1.00

00:01:55.000 Lots going on there.

00:01:57.000 And then Eli Steele, the son of the great Shelby Steele, talking about race, race relations, what's really behind all of our dysfunction.

00:02:05.000 So a packed show.

00:02:06.000 We've got some Iran news to get to, of course, repeatedly.

00:02:09.000 But Luigi Mangione is back in the news this morning.

00:02:12.000 Obviously, that's a topic.

00:02:13.000 That strikes near and dear to our heart here on the Charlie Kirk show.

00:02:18.000 Luigi Mangione, in a big way, contributed to this rise of assassination culture.

00:02:23.000 It's something that Charlie was very worried about.

00:02:25.000 And just this morning, Judge Caro, who's overseeing the state case here, has ruled that the backpack that was next to Luigi Mangione in the McDonald's where he was arrested, so he's sitting at a table, there's a backpack either on a table adjacent to him or on the floor.

00:02:45.000 And it has been ruled that the contents of that backpack are inadmissible.

00:02:51.000 That includes his cell phone.

00:02:52.000 They will be suppressed.

00:02:53.000 Yes.

00:02:54.000 His cell phone, his passport, I assume, is it a gun magazine?

00:02:59.000 Bullet magazine.

00:03:00.000 Bullet magazine, wallet, and computer chip.

00:03:02.000 Computer chip.

00:03:03.000 I'm not sure what the computer chip is here.

00:03:04.000 Let's go ahead and play that scene from inside the courtroom.

00:03:09.000 SOT 13.

00:03:10.000 I find that the search of the backpack at McDonald's was improper, warrantless search.

00:03:17.000 That the backpack was not within the immediate control or grabbable area of the defendant, and further, the people failed to demonstrate exuding circumstances.

00:03:27.000 Therefore, those items found in the backpack during the search at McDonald's will be suppressed.

00:03:34.000 However, the people have established that the subsequent search of the backpack at the station was a valid inventory search, and therefore, the items recovered at the station will not be suppressed.

00:03:48.000 All right, so the items recovered at the station.

00:03:51.000 The gun, which is key, obviously, here.

00:03:55.000 But just to go into this rule, because I had to look it up when this ruling came through.

00:04:01.000 No, it is typically not illegal to search a suspect's backpack when they have been apprehended under the search incident to a lawful arrest exception to the Fourth Amendment, meaning that for the officer's safety, if the backpack is in or around the person that's been arrested, the suspect in this case, then the immediate association.

00:04:25.000 With the suspect that's been lawfully apprehended is then fair game.

00:04:29.000 They should be able to search that.

00:04:31.000 There is, however, some exceptions.

00:04:35.000 So if the suspect is in the car, in like the police car in the back, he's handcuffed, and they haven't searched the backpack yet, they may need to get a warrant for that.

00:04:43.000 So this looks to be basically a gray area.

00:04:47.000 My question for this judge would be what was to say that there wasn't a bomb inside that backpack?

00:04:52.000 Yeah, it's very strange.

00:04:53.000 You could hear it in the clip where he's saying essentially the backpack was.

00:04:57.000 Basically, it sounds like too far away from Luigi when they detained him.

00:05:01.000 Yeah, like what's the distance?

00:05:02.000 If he were holding the backpack, they could have searched it.

00:05:04.000 Yeah.

00:05:05.000 But I guess it was maybe on the other side of the table or the cops could get between him.

00:05:09.000 It sounds very, very ticky tack either way.

00:05:12.000 It's very ticky tack.

00:05:13.000 So, just so you know, the idea of a backpack or a possession being in the immediate association or vicinity of a suspect, this includes clothing, wallets, purses, and backpacks that the person is wearing, carrying, or had in their immediate possession.

00:05:29.000 The justification is officer safety.

00:05:31.000 Are there any weapons in preserving evidence?

00:05:34.000 So, if the backpack is separated from the suspect, as the suspect is being secured, handcuffed in a patrol car, under control, with no realistic access, some courts, like the Fourth Circuit, have provided the reasoning that may require a warrant or other justification, treating it more like a container as opposed to part of the person.

00:05:57.000 So, that's obviously what the judge has ruled here.

00:05:59.000 Apparently, body cam footage.

00:06:01.000 Was used in this hearing to come to this ruling.

00:06:05.000 Very, very frustrating, though, because obviously they had probable cause.

00:06:11.000 They checked his ID, they arrested him at the McDonald's.

00:06:14.000 The backpack was on the floor or on the table.

00:06:18.000 So, two questions then immediately come to mind.

00:06:20.000 What is the distance away from the suspect that it all of a sudden becomes a warranted search?

00:06:28.000 And by the way, again, what if there was a bomb in the backpack?

00:06:31.000 This feels absolutely like the judge is. 0.87

00:06:35.000 Sympathetic to Luigi Maggioni, a cold blooded murderer, an assassin.

00:06:40.000 Well, so, okay, on the flip side, we should emphasize you see two different headlines, and it kind of shows, I think, different perspectives of media outlets.

00:06:48.000 Because some, Fox, certainly, they're leading with all of this evidence is getting suppressed.

00:06:53.000 It's a big win.

00:06:54.000 But other publications are emphasizing they are allowed to use his gun and they are allowed to use his diary.

00:07:00.000 And I suspect that means that they're allowed to use his manifesto, which is 260 pages or words approximately.

00:07:07.000 Saying basically he's motivated by how angry he is about the healthcare system.

00:07:12.000 And that's pretty strong evidence overall.

00:07:14.000 So I think we can be hopeful there's still a lot here.

00:07:18.000 What I will say is the uneasy feeling I've had, you've had, I think a lot of people have had, is it seems like every couple months we get a new development and it's always away from what we want.

00:07:28.000 So first they're going to seek the death penalty with him.

00:07:31.000 Now they can't seek the death penalty for whatever reason.

00:07:34.000 And now they're suppressing some evidence.

00:07:36.000 Maybe next time other evidence is going to get suppressed.

00:07:38.000 It's always.

00:07:39.000 One little development after another in favor of this guy who we should remind everyone, heinously murdered, it seems, a stranger in cold blood, a father, because he was angry about the industry the man worked in, which the man did not create.

00:07:55.000 The man did not really perpetuate.

00:07:57.000 He was just a CEO of a health insurance company.

00:07:59.000 And by the way, guys, I'll have you know, health insurance is not the reason U.S. healthcare is expensive.

00:08:05.000 Well, this is the thing.

00:08:05.000 No.

00:08:06.000 So Big Pharma is watching this whole show trial go on and they're overjoyed, right?

00:08:10.000 That was an observation that Walter. Kern made, and I agree with it.

00:08:15.000 And basically, it's a giant distraction from the fact that this man is a cold blooded killer who is sparking this rise in assassination culture.

00:08:24.000 We'll let Charlie take it away here.

00:08:26.000 Sot 16.

00:08:27.000 Look, you've got two options.

00:08:28.000 You can go MAGA or Mangioniism. 0.63

00:08:30.000 You can go MAGA or you can go Momdaniism. 0.99

00:08:33.000 You can go MAGA or you can go Mohammedism. 0.99

00:08:35.000 It's very funny how all the M's, MAGA is the only option on the right. 0.62

00:08:39.000 Neoconservatives are not coming back.

00:08:41.000 The corporate oligarchs, we're not going to let him.

00:08:43.000 So MAGA has cemented the worldview of the American right.

00:08:47.000 But the left, we don't know.

00:08:48.000 It could go Maggioni, which is the most extreme. 0.76

00:08:52.000 You could go Mamdani, which is very, very extreme. 0.99

00:08:54.000 Or you go Mohammedism, which is just Muslim Islamic takeover. 0.98

00:09:00.000 You get reform or you get revolution. 0.87

00:09:02.000 We at MAGA want to reform stuff.

00:09:05.000 Political undercurrent underneath Maggioni that cannot be ignored, that should not be dismissed.

00:09:12.000 And that political reality is that is on the American left.

00:09:16.000 100% right.

00:09:17.000 So, I want to get into Iran updates here.

00:09:17.000 All right.

00:09:20.000 It's very important.

00:09:21.000 Okay.

00:09:22.000 So, President Trump issued a couple new truths over the weekend.

00:09:26.000 It felt like the rhetoric is ramping up once more because the back and forth seems to be with Iran via the Pakistanis impossible to reach a deal. 0.67

00:09:37.000 Their whole strategy does seem to be waiting out the clock. 0.86

00:09:40.000 So, go ahead and throw up this truth. 0.98

00:09:42.000 It says For Iran, the clock is ticking and they better get moving fast or there won't be anything left of them. 1.00

00:09:49.000 Time is of the essence. 0.85

00:09:50.000 President DJT.

00:09:52.000 Now, this is in reaction to again negotiations that are ongoing that seem to be netting approximately zero.

00:10:02.000 Now, over the weekend, we did hear reports that fuel shortages within Iran are starting to accumulate.

00:10:08.000 This was from an Israeli source to Fox News saying they're seeing lines at the gas pump.

00:10:15.000 They are running out of energy, which is ironic.

00:10:18.000 They're having to start plugging some of their wells.

00:10:21.000 Which, if you know anything about oil extraction, once you plug those wells, you might not be able to open them ever again.

00:10:27.000 They've run out of storage.

00:10:28.000 They're finding anything they can to store this.

00:10:30.000 The economy's in free fall.

00:10:32.000 Inflation's off the charts.

00:10:34.000 And it doesn't seem to matter to these guys.

00:10:36.000 They are simply playing the long game.

00:10:39.000 They are basically pointing to the fact that America has a short amount of patience for this war and that President Trump is incurring political costs.

00:10:49.000 So they're going to wait it out.

00:10:51.000 I mean, it's.

00:10:52.000 In a lot of ways, it's that dynamic where they might be vastly weaker, but they also care vastly more.

00:11:01.000 There was a line, Ho Chi Minh, who was the leader of North Vietnam, and supposedly he had a line that says, You can kill 100 of my guys for every one I kill of yours, but still, I am going to win and you're going to lose because I am just that much more fanatical about it.

00:11:16.000 And so, yeah, their economy is vastly worse than ours.

00:11:20.000 They've taken vastly more losses than us, but they're not.

00:11:23.000 They're not a democracy.

00:11:24.000 They don't have to worry about a midterm election.

00:11:26.000 They don't have to worry about a Congress getting in the way.

00:11:29.000 They can just say, we'll make our country suffer as much as it takes to drag this out.

00:11:34.000 Yeah.

00:11:35.000 And here's the thing.

00:11:37.000 At some point, there's really only two options left on the table.

00:11:40.000 Either you decide to hit them hard again militarily and you start taking out additional targets and you accelerate the kinetic activity in the region, you break the ceasefire and you make them cry uncle that way, or at least attempt to.

00:11:57.000 I'm not sure you can, as essentially where we're at militarily, but that would be one way.

00:12:04.000 You know, China has said that they are going to stop supplying.

00:12:07.000 Anything to Iran based on that last meeting with President Xi and President Trump.

00:12:13.000 However, they'll say a lot of things publicly, whether they'll follow through on anything.

00:12:16.000 We're still struggling to get China to follow through buying our soybeans, for goodness sakes.

00:12:20.000 So that's a whole question.

00:12:22.000 They said they were going to buy 500 Boeing planes.

00:12:24.000 They've only bought 200.

00:12:26.000 So on and so forth. 1.00

00:12:27.000 This is the way that the Chinese work. 1.00

00:12:29.000 So getting them to follow through with anything. 0.94

00:12:30.000 We're also seeing reports that there is actual caravans going overland to get through the sea blockade through, you know, about A dozen different countries from China over to Iran.

00:12:42.000 So we know that they're still supplying them with something, right?

00:12:46.000 The regime is desperate.

00:12:47.000 They'll use other means, and those caravans have been ramping up.

00:12:51.000 All right.

00:12:52.000 So the question then is can you simply declare victory, say, hey, we got what we could.

00:12:58.000 We tried our best.

00:12:59.000 We destroyed their military installations. 0.60

00:13:02.000 We destroyed their nuclear capacity. 0.92

00:13:03.000 Yeah, we'd love to have the nuclear dust. 0.97

00:13:06.000 We'd love to have all the uranium out of there.

00:13:08.000 Even President Trump said, They basically, it would be very difficult for them to get that out.

00:13:13.000 It would take a very, very long time.

00:13:14.000 It's a question of whether or not they could get the nuclear dust out or not.

00:13:19.000 But he said, I would feel better getting it.

00:13:20.000 Okay.

00:13:21.000 Well, you would feel better, but it's not necessarily a must have, maybe.

00:13:25.000 So can you just declare victory and get out?

00:13:25.000 All right.

00:13:28.000 Can we just say, hey, listen, it's up to the Iranian people now?

00:13:32.000 We declare victory. 0.99

00:13:34.000 Everything is copacetic as far as we're concerned.

00:13:36.000 We did a good thing.

00:13:37.000 We're out.

00:13:39.000 If you push us again, we'll be back, but don't push us.

00:13:41.000 Well,. 0.96

00:13:42.000 The downside there is Iran has also shown they're willing to push it a little bit. 0.98

00:13:46.000 And if they say, okay, well, we're going to go back to putting a toll on the straits, we're still going to close the strait. 0.98

00:13:51.000 Yeah.

00:13:52.000 Or you just, I guess, option three would be status quo.

00:13:55.000 You just keep the blockade up.

00:13:56.000 But I'm telling you that the economic impact of that, a toll on a huge container of oil is one thing.

00:14:06.000 Yeah, it drives up the price a little bit, maybe like a dollar a barrel.

00:14:09.000 But could you absorb it globally?

00:14:12.000 Probably.

00:14:12.000 Right.

00:14:13.000 So it's not ideal. 0.83

00:14:15.000 But even the Chinese don't want that.

00:14:16.000 So, my point is, could you domestically, and here's the concern if the audience is wondering why I'm concerned, domestically, this is having political ramifications.

00:14:26.000 I am thinking about the midterms, and we want to win the midterms.

00:14:32.000 There is a very good chance, based on redistricting, based on the Supreme Court decision, that we would be closer in the midterms than we thought, even with all the political headwinds, even given the economic or sorry, the historic precedent of you usually lose.

00:14:48.000 Seats during a midterm race when you're the incumbent power.

00:14:52.000 So the question is, can we, when you got essentially what's left, like depending on whose math you're using, 11 to 14 toss up seats, can you win half of those?

00:15:02.000 Can you do that and retain control of the House?

00:15:05.000 These are really, really important questions for the next two years of the Trump administration.

00:15:09.000 Can you avoid impeachments?

00:15:11.000 Can you avoid the House getting bogged down in constant investigations, chasing the tail, mainstream news media, legacy media going crazy with every new thing that they come out that Tamu Obama comes out with?

00:15:23.000 Can we avoid that fate?

00:15:24.000 And I believe that a big chunk of that is what is the price of the pump?

00:15:28.000 What is going on in Iran? 0.88

00:15:30.000 Desperately, I am one of those people that I want to see this wrapped up sooner than later. 0.92

00:15:34.000 We said at the outset that this was not something that the base had voted for, but if it ended in a few weeks, even if they were annoyed, they would get over it.

00:15:44.000 But now those several weeks have passed.

00:15:47.000 We're two and a half months into it at this point.

00:15:50.000 And if this is still going to the midterms or when the midterms arrive, we should just be frank.

00:15:54.000 I think it will be very bad for the party.

00:15:59.000 All right.

00:16:00.000 If you are like me, you are looking at summer thinking about all the fun stuff.

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00:16:14.000 I don't know if you've got like a road trip coming up or a vacation, some beach place, whatever it is, you got to feel an urgency.

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00:17:34.000 All right, I want to welcome Eric Metaxas to the show, friend of the show.

00:17:41.000 Eric, how have you been, my friend?

00:17:43.000 I have been great.

00:17:44.000 Praise God.

00:17:46.000 As you know, I'm in the swamp today.

00:17:48.000 I'm in Washington, D.C., as I was here yesterday.

00:17:51.000 I know you're going to talk about it.

00:17:53.000 I'm laughing before we even begin.

00:17:56.000 I mean, we could get to it.

00:17:57.000 So, all right, let's just get to it.

00:17:59.000 I mean, but there's so much good to talk about that this, the way that they parsed your joke is hilarious.

00:18:07.000 Okay.

00:18:08.000 So, wait, first let's just start.

00:18:10.000 The press is bad.

00:18:11.000 They mangled the joke.

00:18:12.000 The press is bad.

00:18:12.000 They screwed it up.

00:18:13.000 Breaking news.

00:18:16.000 Let's talk about the serious part first.

00:18:18.000 All right, let's do that.

00:18:19.000 Get to the funny thing.

00:18:21.000 We will never stop.

00:18:23.000 It's so funny, and it will keep people listening because you will not believe what we're going to share.

00:18:30.000 But go ahead. 0.97

00:18:30.000 It's so ridiculous. 0.97

00:18:31.000 Anyways, I'm going to play, first of all, Rededicate 250.

00:18:34.000 This was an opportunity to rededicate our nation to prayer, to God, to worshiping the Lord, basically re articulating what the founders believed.

00:18:46.000 Right?

00:18:46.000 And what the founding of our nation was Christian.

00:18:49.000 It was.

00:18:49.000 And JD Vance did a great job.

00:18:51.000 He gave a shout out to Charlie when he did it.

00:18:53.000 And so I'll start there.

00:18:54.000 Sot one.

00:18:55.000 It was obvious to the founders that our faith was the ground upon which America stands.

00:19:00.000 It was our very foundation as a people.

00:19:04.000 And if this foundation were to crumble, so too would the very values that make us Americans.

00:19:10.000 From our religious inheritance come many of the virtues and institutions we most cherish as a people our system of justice, our generosity to neighbors.

00:19:20.000 Our respect for conscience and the moral discipline necessary for liberty itself.

00:19:27.000 As my dear friend, the late, great Charlie Kirk put it, all law reflects a morality.

00:19:33.000 Neither law nor morality appears in a vacuum, but ultimately come from religion.

00:19:40.000 And the morality and religion that formed the American consciousness were decidedly Christian, founded upon the principles and the divinity of Jesus Christ.

00:19:51.000 Pretty well said there, Eric.

00:19:53.000 Yes.

00:19:53.000 Listen, yesterday was an historic moment in the history of this nation.

00:19:58.000 This was a.

00:20:00.000 An epical moment.

00:20:03.000 First of all, we have a president who declared on May 17th, we are going to rededicate the nation to God.

00:20:12.000 Nobody twisted his arm.

00:20:14.000 He didn't have to do that, but he did it.

00:20:17.000 And yesterday, which was May 17th, we officially, in many ways, rededicated the nation to God.

00:20:26.000 This is a huge thing.

00:20:28.000 And as you know, Andrew, because I showed you my new book, I mean, because I have written a Book on the revolution, which is coming out in a couple of weeks.

00:20:37.000 I have done the research to see that there is no way that America comes into being apart from the revolutionaries, these great men looking directly to God.

00:20:50.000 But we've been living in a time where secularists have pushed that away, pushed that away.

00:20:56.000 We need to go back to the founding.

00:20:58.000 We need to go back to how did we get to be a nation where we govern ourselves?

00:21:03.000 It comes from looking directly to God.

00:21:05.000 They didn't get this in the French Revolution, which is why it went sideways.

00:21:08.000 In 10 minutes and turns into a bloodbath. 0.54

00:21:11.000 Our revolutionaries from John Adams on down, they understood we're going back to the Sinai covenant, like the Israelites in the wilderness.

00:21:20.000 We're going to govern ourselves because we look directly to God.

00:21:23.000 And so yesterday was a great day on the National Mall.

00:21:27.000 So many wonderful people were there.

00:21:29.000 The president read from Second Chronicles, the famous passage.

00:21:34.000 I mean, just an amazing moment in American history.

00:21:37.000 And I believe as a result, Of what happened yesterday, we're going to feel it because that's a real thing.

00:21:44.000 Really did this.

00:21:45.000 And the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, says, We hereby, you know, it's like the government doesn't need to do this.

00:21:54.000 But here we have the Speaker of the House saying this officially as a member of the United States government we hereby rededicate the nation to the God of the Bible.

00:22:02.000 It was a huge moment.

00:22:04.000 And I was privileged to be one of the speakers.

00:22:07.000 And I just can't say how happy I am that we did this.

00:22:11.000 I expect to see things are going to happen.

00:22:14.000 Because we have officially turned to God in the way we did yesterday.

00:22:18.000 Well, and that's so scriptural, too, Eric, where we wait on the Lord, you know, with expectation of Him doing something in our midst, of Him acting and moving in our country, in our politics, in our families, right?

00:22:34.000 And I totally agree with you that when we rededicate ourselves to the Lord, when we repent, when we cry out to Him, that He will heal our land, that He will bring righteousness in ways that we haven't seen, maybe for a while.

00:22:46.000 And I pray that that is so true.

00:22:48.000 And when it's coming from the headship of the country, namely the political leaders that have been elected by we the people, I do believe that there is a powerful exchange that happens in the spiritual realms.

00:23:00.000 We are not in a war against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities.

00:23:04.000 Things move when we pray and we rededicate ourselves to the Lord.

00:23:08.000 Well, the important thing I think to say is that this is historical, or I should say, We're being faithful to American history.

00:23:20.000 This is not like a bunch of Christians got some crazy idea.

00:23:23.000 By doing this, and I write about this in my new book, Revolution, I didn't know this really until I did the research.

00:23:30.000 It's not deniable that the men who rebelled against England and said, We're going to take up arms to defend our rights, our rights are given from God, they had a keen sense that this is what the Bible says, and we're doing this because this is what God says to do.

00:23:50.000 So it was not a secular revolution.

00:23:53.000 Like the French Revolution, they themselves understood this.

00:23:56.000 And I write about it because I think most Americans are a little bit, we've forgotten how radically, explicitly Christian the revolution was.

00:24:08.000 And now I have to be clear this doesn't mean we impose our faith.

00:24:12.000 And neither did George Washington or John Adams want to impose their faith.

00:24:15.000 They believe in freedom of religion.

00:24:17.000 So if you want to be an atheist, if you want to be a Muslim, or you don't want to believe in anything, or you want to be an.

00:24:24.000 They said the government's not going to force you, but where do we get this great idea of freedom of religion?

00:24:31.000 We get it from the Bible.

00:24:32.000 It comes out of the Reformation is that religion cannot be forced.

00:24:36.000 We are not radical Muslims that are going to convert people by the sword.

00:24:41.000 We are not radical atheists that will throw you in prison.

00:24:44.000 We believe in religious liberty because we believe freedom comes out of the Bible.

00:24:48.000 All the founders quoted Deuteronomy more than any other book.

00:24:53.000 So it is everywhere in our founding.

00:24:56.000 And what we're doing is we're going back to the beginnings.

00:24:58.000 We're saying, you know, what makes America great again?

00:25:01.000 We want to make America great again.

00:25:02.000 What made America great in the first place?

00:25:04.000 That is what made America great in the first place.

00:25:08.000 Everybody needs to know that.

00:25:09.000 We can't be great again unless we know what made us great in the beginning.

00:25:13.000 And I think of the 250th, the super centennial year, this is the time for us to relearn what many of us, myself included, had forgotten or weren't so clear on.

00:25:23.000 I mean, as you guys have been saying, it really is of.

00:25:26.000 Existential importance for real.

00:25:29.000 Charlie loved that line, John Adams, that our Constitution was for a moral and religious people and it was wholly inadequate to the government of any other. 0.54

00:25:36.000 That's cited a lot just to say, oh, you know, this was a society founded on Christian belief and principle and it requires that to work.

00:25:44.000 But we often glide past that second part, that it's required for it to work.

00:25:47.000 And I think about a lot of the stresses our system is under right now, where you especially have the left contemplating much more aggressive reaches beyond what I think our Constitution is supposed to have, where they're talking, let's just 100% pack the Supreme Court.

00:26:03.000 Let's create entire new states just to cling to power ourselves. 0.86

00:26:08.000 Let's do mass amnesty for every illegal immigrant. 0.72

00:26:10.000 And you can't help but think okay, well, this is a political faction that has abandoned religion, loudly trumpets that it's abandoning religion. 0.59

00:26:21.000 And as a result, they don't see merit to the endurance of this constitution.

00:26:27.000 They don't see as much of a problem with burning down things that have lasted for 250 years and been successful.

00:26:34.000 It's all Blow it up now to get power right now.

00:26:37.000 And I just think of what John Adams said.

00:26:40.000 No, it's a total, but we have to be clear.

00:26:40.000 It's a betrayal.

00:26:42.000 It is a betrayal of America.

00:26:45.000 You can have a country, but it won't be the America that we've had for 250 years.

00:26:50.000 If you don't understand the basics, if you don't understand that our rights come from God, I was interviewed by National Public Radio a couple of days ago about this.

00:27:00.000 And they were like, Did you know that Pete Hegseth is going to speak and that he says that our rights come from God?

00:27:08.000 And I was like, I don't think Pete Hegseth came up with that concept.

00:27:14.000 I think it's in our founding documents.

00:27:17.000 Like, that's the whole nation is based on that.

00:27:19.000 So, the fact that you have major journalists that are unaware of this is a staggering drift away from the basics.

00:27:26.000 But that's kind of where we are right now.

00:27:29.000 It's almost unbelievable.

00:27:30.000 And that's why yesterday was so important.

00:27:32.000 And, you know, but the left, they've forgotten everything.

00:27:35.000 They've forgotten how to laugh.

00:27:37.000 They've forgotten how to rejoice.

00:27:41.000 We'll get into that in just a second.

00:27:42.000 But one word here is that, you know, that Charlie has that famous clip where he's talking about how all the 13 colonies had a statement of faith and.

00:27:51.000 Even Maryland, which was Catholic, how the God is mentioned four times in the Declaration.

00:27:56.000 It ends in a prayer to the supreme ruler, right?

00:28:00.000 The ruler of the nations, which is Jesus Christ.

00:28:03.000 I mean, it was so saturating the founding generation that it affected the way that they spoke, their turns of phrases, the way that they constructed the document itself, the Declaration and the Constitution.

00:28:15.000 But people kind of missed the end where he says the reason we have a constitutional crisis today is because we have a Christian document and our people are. 0.65

00:28:23.000 Less and less Christian, and those become incompatible.

00:28:26.000 And that's the real takeaway. 0.99

00:28:29.000 We need revival in this land if we are going to see a reconstitution of the America that we've always known and loved, what's made it such a shiny city on a hill and a beacon of freedom for the world over.

00:28:41.000 So we need people to reconnect with Jesus, to meet Jesus.

00:28:45.000 We need a rededication.

00:28:47.000 All right, Eric, we got to get into it.

00:28:49.000 You said that the left can't take a joke anymore.

00:28:52.000 They've lost their sense of humor, couldn't agree more.

00:28:54.000 They are.

00:28:55.000 Absolute shrills.

00:28:57.000 They are hall monitors.

00:28:58.000 They are the fun police.

00:29:00.000 I don't know what's gotten into them, but they're complete.

00:29:02.000 They're like puritanical secularists. 0.96

00:29:06.000 It's the craziest thing. 1.00

00:29:08.000 And they've struck again.

00:29:09.000 They've done it to you this weekend.

00:29:11.000 This is one of the best.

00:29:12.000 I've ever watched this.

00:29:13.000 And they're writing hit pieces on you.

00:29:15.000 The Daily Beast, MAGA Pastor.

00:29:17.000 Are you even a pastor, Eric?

00:29:19.000 I don't know.

00:29:19.000 I'm not even a pastor.

00:29:20.000 Okay, that's what I thought.

00:29:21.000 Not that I'm aware of.

00:29:22.000 MAGA Pastor.

00:29:23.000 They're so bad at the Christian thing, they don't even know who the pastor is and who's not.

00:29:27.000 MAGA Pastor. 0.56

00:29:28.000 Makes bonkers claim about Trump's ballroom.

00:29:31.000 Okay.

00:29:32.000 Eric, I'm going to play the way they cut.

00:29:34.000 By the way, on the left, like lefty Twitter, Blue Sky, you are famous today.

00:29:39.000 Like, this thing has gone like crazy.

00:29:41.000 They've made my book break into the top 100 on Amazon.

00:29:45.000 There it is.

00:29:46.000 And it's not coming out for two weeks.

00:29:47.000 My Revolution book.

00:29:50.000 Put that book up on the screen.

00:29:52.000 Everybody get your copy.

00:29:52.000 There it is.

00:29:53.000 Pre order it today.

00:29:54.000 Revolution.

00:29:55.000 I saw Eric.

00:29:56.000 We had breakfast in D.C. a couple weeks back.

00:29:59.000 And I read like the first 10 pages.

00:30:01.000 This thing's.

00:30:02.000 Beautiful, Eric.

00:30:03.000 It's so well written.

00:30:04.000 I want to say that you've gotten even better since Bonhoeffer.

00:30:08.000 Yeah, that was the like international mega huge bestseller, millions of copies, whatever.

00:30:14.000 You're really good at this.

00:30:16.000 I mean, as a historian, Eric, you are becoming so elite.

00:30:20.000 You're very kind.

00:30:22.000 This story is much more fun, happy, obviously, than the Bonhoeffer story.

00:30:27.000 And it's unfortunately extremely important that every American know this story, which is why I wrote the book.

00:30:33.000 Yeah.

00:30:33.000 But I mean, yeah, so yesterday.

00:30:35.000 Well, let me play the clips, Eric.

00:30:37.000 I'm going to play the clips.

00:30:38.000 Yeah, you're also a show host yourself, so you can't help it, but I'm going to commandeer it.

00:30:44.000 This is the way they edited what you said.

00:30:47.000 Sop 15.

00:30:48.000 It's hard to believe that it would take two centuries for the Lord to raise up a great man to bring that ballroom finally to stand where it needs to stand.

00:30:59.000 It's extraordinary.

00:31:00.000 We only had to wait 200 years.

00:31:04.000 So, this is the way they edited your.

00:31:07.000 Okay, now I got the full. 0.99

00:31:09.000 Because these people are liars. 0.96

00:31:12.000 And if you did not know that they are liars yet, Eric, this would be case in point, Exhibit A. 0.99

00:31:17.000 No joke. 0.79

00:31:18.000 Yeah.

00:31:18.000 No joke.

00:31:19.000 I mean, think about this, right?

00:31:21.000 I'm invited to speak on the National Mall about something that to me is one of the most important things in the history of the world, which is God's hand in American history.

00:31:30.000 And that's because I wrote the book on the revolution.

00:31:33.000 They wanted me in my speech to focus on two times when God did something miraculous.

00:31:41.000 So, I submit my speech.

00:31:43.000 They put in the teleprompter, and I talk about the escape from across the East River, this incredible miracle in our history in 1776.

00:31:53.000 And then a few months later, the crossing of Delaware, two miracles where we lean on God, we look to God, and God delivers us.

00:32:02.000 And that's the whole story of America.

00:32:03.000 And that was the point of my speech.

00:32:04.000 But, Eric, you make a lot of jokes when you speak publicly.

00:32:09.000 If you've ever heard Eric speak, He's kind of weaving really serious stuff in the midst of like offhanded jokes.

00:32:15.000 And this is what it was.

00:32:17.000 Here's the full, Eric.

00:32:18.000 Here's the full.

00:32:19.000 Sop four.

00:32:20.000 It was 30 years after we won our independence.

00:32:22.000 The British challenged us again in the War of 1812, burning parts of that city named after George Washington.

00:32:32.000 You may be familiar with that city.

00:32:35.000 They burned parts of the city, including the White House, which at that time, if you can believe it, Did not yet have a ballroom.

00:32:48.000 Yes, it's hard to believe that it would take two centuries for the Lord to raise up a great man to bring that ballroom finally to stand where it needs to stand.

00:32:59.000 It's extraordinary.

00:33:00.000 We only had to wait 200 years.

00:33:03.000 It's perfect.

00:33:04.000 There were laughs. 0.98

00:33:05.000 Everybody was in on the joke except for the freaking shrill Democrats in the media. 0.94

00:33:09.000 This is so funny.

00:33:11.000 Andrew, this is what's so hilarious is that the crowd instantly got the joke and left. 1.00

00:33:16.000 Any fool. 0.99

00:33:17.000 Listening to my speech up to that point, I know this is just a dumb joke meant to get a laugh, right? 0.99

00:33:25.000 That, you know, and 200 years later, God raised up a man to create that ballroom, as if that's God's plan for America the ballroom.

00:33:33.000 Like I'm joking around, right?

00:33:35.000 So all my friends said, Oh, that was a great line about the ball.

00:33:35.000 Okay.

00:33:38.000 Everybody gets a joke.

00:33:39.000 I then find out that David French, who has Trump derangement syndrome, officially, the doctors have confirmed it, and others are on X freaking out.

00:33:51.000 That I seem, according to them, seriously said, God has raised up Donald Trump to create the ballroom.

00:33:59.000 Like they believed this and they don't understand that I'm joking, even though everybody knows it's a joke.

00:34:04.000 Then I read the Daily Beast has written an article about it.

00:34:09.000 There's another major article about it.

00:34:11.000 I can't even think, I saw it this morning.

00:34:12.000 Huffington Post wrote an article about it.

00:34:14.000 And the Jerusalem Post mentioned this.

00:34:17.000 Like everyone is freaking out, not getting that it's a joke.

00:34:22.000 And you just think, This is, on the one hand, the funniest thing ever because it's promoting my book.

00:34:29.000 And the other thing is like, it's kind of sad that here's a moment of joking about the ballroom.

00:34:36.000 They cannot get the joke.

00:34:37.000 They are so enraged by President Trump that they have to attack.

00:34:42.000 It's almost unbelievable.

00:34:44.000 It's almost unbelievable.

00:34:44.000 Yeah.

00:34:44.000 Guess what?

00:34:45.000 God has a sense of humor.

00:34:47.000 And we're just going to assume that this means you're going to have a new New York Times bestseller on your hands here with the new book on the revolution.

00:34:54.000 I mean, why not, Eric?

00:34:55.000 Because.

00:34:56.000 You know, that would be the, that would be you getting the last laugh.

00:34:59.000 Okay.

00:35:00.000 I will beg, I will beg your audience to please pre order the book.

00:35:04.000 Put it up.

00:35:05.000 Put it up.

00:35:06.000 Please.

00:35:06.000 There it is.

00:35:07.000 And in fact, I'll say this.

00:35:07.000 Please.

00:35:09.000 We never did this before.

00:35:10.000 If you pre order it through my website, ericmetaxas.com, we will send you a PDF.

00:35:14.000 You could start reading the book immediately.

00:35:16.000 No way.

00:35:16.000 I've never done that before because the book doesn't come out officially until June 2nd.

00:35:20.000 It's a big, beautiful book, like the big, beautiful ballroom, if I can say that.

00:35:25.000 But you have to go to ericmetaxas.com and we'll send you the book.

00:35:27.000 Get the book, everybody.

00:35:28.000 God bless you, Eric.

00:35:30.000 And may God bless the United States of America.

00:35:30.000 God bless you.

00:35:33.000 Thank you, my friend.

00:35:36.000 We have a very nice treat in store for you, and that is Alex Marlowe, editor in chief of.

00:35:42.000 Right, Bart, and I check it every day, multiple times, most of the time, multiple times.

00:35:48.000 And he's also host of the Alex Marlowe Show.

00:35:50.000 Alex, welcome back.

00:35:51.000 Always great to be back with you guys.

00:35:52.000 Thanks for having me yet again.

00:35:53.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:35:54.000 I mean, you're one of our regulars, Alex.

00:35:56.000 You can't get away from us.

00:35:57.000 It's just going to be this is the way it is now.

00:36:00.000 You know, it's a true story, by the way.

00:36:02.000 I have polled the audience informally about which of our regulars they like, and your name always comes up.

00:36:08.000 So you're stuck with us, Alex.

00:36:11.000 Love it.

00:36:12.000 All right.

00:36:12.000 Thank you, audience.

00:36:13.000 Let's talk politics.

00:36:14.000 Sure.

00:36:16.000 You know, there's a lot going on.

00:36:17.000 Namely, Senator Cassidy was just successfully primaried in Louisiana as a Senate.

00:36:25.000 That's a huge.

00:36:25.000 People, like, I don't think most people realize what a big deal it is for a sitting senator to be primaried.

00:36:33.000 Yeah, and just pretty bad, really badly, because it wasn't even a full primary where he lost head to head with somebody.

00:36:39.000 It was the first level primary.

00:36:41.000 And so he got third place among the Republicans.

00:36:46.000 Doesn't even make it to the runoff.

00:36:47.000 So he.

00:36:48.000 He knows months out that his time in the Senate is done.

00:36:52.000 Yep.

00:36:52.000 Julia Letlow pulled away with that one with 44.8% of the vote, and John Fleming will be her challenger with 28.3%.

00:37:03.000 Bill Cassidy came in third, as Blake said, at 24.8, so a distant third, and be up against Jamie Davis, it looks like, for the Democrats.

00:37:13.000 So, what do you make of this particular one?

00:37:15.000 And then we're going to move on to Thomas Massey.

00:37:18.000 Yeah, first of all, both of those candidates seem good.

00:37:20.000 I think Trump endorsed Letlow the other.

00:37:22.000 Candidate, we've done stuff with him a lot at Breitbart.

00:37:24.000 So, this is a huge improvement and really awesome stuff to see this.

00:37:28.000 But it's so rare.

00:37:30.000 And that's the shocking thing is that we haven't seen this happen since 2012 with Richard Luger getting primaried.

00:37:36.000 And it's senators tend to just keep their spots in the primaries until they get unseated by the other party.

00:37:42.000 And that is just not how the country should work.

00:37:45.000 And so, it's really good where the voters actually hold people in power and just shows you money, external influences really do manipulate so many of our elections.

00:37:53.000 But Cassidy was a bad guy. 0.78

00:37:55.000 He was right out there, front and center, grandstanding against President Trump after all the J6 stuff. 1.00

00:38:00.000 And it was such a loser move. 1.00

00:38:02.000 And I'm glad that he got his comeuppance politically. 0.96

00:38:04.000 And it's a great signal the base is sending to the establishment.

00:38:07.000 If you're going to throw down against President Trump over nonsense, mainstream media, hokum, like the Jan 6 stuff, then we're going to vote you out.

00:38:14.000 And so it's fantastic.

00:38:15.000 I love it.

00:38:16.000 I mean, candidly, I mean, I haven't ever shared this, but I remember when Charlie was trying to get Secretary Kennedy through the.

00:38:16.000 Yeah.

00:38:27.000 Confirmation hearings and Cassidy was once again a thorn in the side, didn't like some of Kennedy's stance on, you know, vaccines or whatever.

00:38:37.000 I mean, I think Senator Cassidy is a doctor, right?

00:38:41.000 So he was much more in the establishment camp and was very nervous about that.

00:38:45.000 And Charlie kind of swallowed his pride and reached out to him and said, Hey, get on board with this.

00:38:50.000 You know, if not, there's going to be huge problems for you.

00:38:53.000 Turns out there were problems for him, anyways.

00:38:54.000 Obviously, it's not Charlie's fault or Turning Point's fault, but President Trump definitely.

00:38:59.000 Took notice of that impeachment vote and wasn't going to let it go.

00:39:02.000 I don't think anybody should be surprised by that.

00:39:06.000 Next up is another race that President Trump has weighed in very heavily, and that is involving Thomas Massey in Kentucky.

00:39:13.000 Now, it's become sort of a proxy fight on many things on Epstein, on the Iran war, on Israel, foreign money.

00:39:24.000 What are you making of this?

00:39:26.000 It seems to be a dead heat right now, Alex.

00:39:28.000 If not, Massey might be a little bit behind depending on the poll you see.

00:39:33.000 Yeah, it's a dead heat.

00:39:34.000 It's one of these things where.

00:39:36.000 Where, if you pull the Breitbart newsroom, there's going to be a lot of people who are comfortable with Massey, and there's going to be some people who are not.

00:39:42.000 I'm in the camp that would like to see him lose.

00:39:44.000 I think that he's built up his brand as an online grandstander.

00:39:47.000 I don't see him making a lot of productive votes.

00:39:49.000 He seems to be the guy, and JD Vance was very articulate about this.

00:39:52.000 Whenever Trump needed him to make sure something passed, then Massey is dependably not there and also out on XC Everything app, where he uses the platform to try to fundraise and get clout by suggesting that Trump's government is covering up for pedophiles, which I don't believe that.

00:40:08.000 To be the case, I believe we should all get all full information on Epstein.

00:40:11.000 But I don't think that Donald Trump's government is going out of their way to try to protect pedophiles.

00:40:16.000 That's Massey's entire online brand.

00:40:18.000 And he always is the vote that the Republicans need and can't get.

00:40:23.000 He delights in that.

00:40:23.000 And he loves it.

00:40:24.000 That to me is just so counterproductive.

00:40:26.000 And I think the state of Kentucky can do better.

00:40:29.000 Yeah.

00:40:29.000 I mean, listen, my take on Massey is we like Massey.

00:40:33.000 I like some of his principled stands.

00:40:34.000 Charlie liked some of Massey's principled stands, namely, Uh, anti war, he loved that. 1.00

00:40:41.000 He was a good maha fighter, he liked that. 0.99

00:40:44.000 Uh, principled budget hawk, like that. 0.96

00:40:47.000 Uh, but you know, Blake and I were talking about before the show today.

00:40:50.000 I mean, go ahead, yeah, it was your thought.

00:40:52.000 It's just, yeah, Charlie liked a lot of things about Massey.

00:40:56.000 He said he was a favorite congressman of his for a long time, but Charlie is also a guy who supports President Trump, he supports getting as much as you can done with this administration because he recognizes we're in a national crisis, time is short, and I don't think he would have a lot of patience for.

00:41:13.000 Massey, for example, when the Iran action happened, even if Charlie himself would have been very skeptical of that, Massey basically went on and he said, literally, PSA bombing a country on the other side of the globe won't make the Epstein files go away, suggesting the war is this wag the dog effort to distract from the Epstein files.

00:41:32.000 Or another thing he said is, I vote with the GOP 91% of the time because 9% of the time they're starting wars, bankrupting our country, or covering up for pedophiles.

00:41:44.000 Leaned into this brand that the administration is this pedophile cabal, which is the stuff you can find on Blue Sky.

00:41:51.000 It's the stuff you can find in the worst conspiracy swamps.

00:41:54.000 And frankly, I'll go further.

00:41:56.000 I'll say I think that a lot of the file releases have vindicated President Trump's warnings, which is there's a lot of salacious gossip.

00:42:02.000 It's made a lot of people look bad.

00:42:04.000 It's been embarrassing for a lot of people, but it has not exposed some massive pedophile cabal.

00:42:10.000 That's why people haven't been charged.

00:42:12.000 If someone can show me this specific person should be charged with crimes against children, I'd love to see some people charge from it, but that's another topic.

00:42:21.000 I agree with your main point, though.

00:42:22.000 Yeah, sure.

00:42:23.000 That essentially, you know, listen, there were some calls on X over the weekend to get, you know, will you endorse Thomas Massey?

00:42:31.000 Listen, if Thomas Massey wins, I'm going to be good with it.

00:42:35.000 That's life.

00:42:36.000 I'm totally good with it.

00:42:37.000 I think we can work with Thomas.

00:42:39.000 He's got some great positions, and he's got some, to your point, he has made his whole brand about pedophile protection with Ro Khanna.

00:42:46.000 By the way, Ro Khanna has stood shoulder to shoulder.

00:42:49.000 Trying to make much of this political football with the Epstein thing, with women that have been accused of actually soliciting some of the minors that were abused.

00:42:59.000 So, I'm just saying, I have an open mind here, but at the end of the day, I say I will do what JD Vance does.

00:43:07.000 SOT 17.

00:43:08.000 Being independent, having your own opinions is one thing.

00:43:12.000 Voting against the party on every single issue, you're eventually going to make too many enemies.

00:43:18.000 And that is the problem that Thomas has had.

00:43:20.000 It's not one issue, it's not three or four issues.

00:43:23.000 It's that every time that we've needed Thomas for a vote, he has been completely unwilling to provide it.

00:43:28.000 That is why the President of the United States.

00:43:31.000 Has trained his ire on Thomas Massey.

00:43:33.000 It's because we can never count on him for some of the most difficult votes.

00:43:37.000 And when you always vote against the party, you can't expect the party to actually back you.

00:43:43.000 So, listen, that seems to be pretty logical.

00:43:48.000 Listen, again, I don't hate Thomas Massey.

00:43:50.000 I actually like so much of him, just like Charlie did.

00:43:53.000 But at the end of the day, we got a slim, slim majority, and we got to get stuff done.

00:43:57.000 So, Alex, you had another thought that you wanted to convey on the Massey race.

00:44:03.000 Yeah, so the positive thing about Massey is he is a real American individual, and I do like that.

00:44:08.000 And I want to encourage people to be individuals.

00:44:09.000 But his job as a congressman is to vote.

00:44:12.000 And when you're consistently voting to make the job easier for the Democrats and for the bad guys politically, then that becomes a major problem for me.

00:44:20.000 And think about the One Big Beautiful Bill Act where he opposed that.

00:44:24.000 And that was essentially what people voted for in the 2024 election.

00:44:27.000 Trump wanted this.

00:44:28.000 He talked about it the whole time.

00:44:29.000 He wanted one big, beautiful bill that's going to get his agenda going.

00:44:32.000 And Massey stood in the way of that.

00:44:33.000 That's just a sign that he's in it for himself.

00:44:35.000 You know, I don't love the glow up that his wife died, then did the big glow up, and then got the younger wife immediately.

00:44:41.000 That's also off putting to me.

00:44:42.000 But all that matters to me is how does he vote?

00:44:44.000 And he's a Republican who votes problematically a lot.

00:44:47.000 And that's what it comes down to.

00:44:49.000 So I'm rooting against him.

00:44:50.000 But again, an interesting individual.

00:44:53.000 Yeah.

00:44:53.000 I mean, listen, when it comes to his personal life, I mean, listen, from all I can tell, he was a devoted husband for many years.

00:45:00.000 And his wife died unexpectedly.

00:45:02.000 My heart goes out to him about all of that.

00:45:04.000 And I don't subscribe to any of the salacious stuff that's.

00:45:08.000 People are slinging.

00:45:10.000 I get the optics of it, Alex.

00:45:11.000 I just, to your point, what matters to me is, you know, is he going to be a part of a team or is he not?

00:45:19.000 And listen, I understand, like I said, I love his principled stance on war. 0.54

00:45:24.000 I think, you know, Alex Clark has been out publicly defending his Maha bona fides. 0.92

00:45:30.000 Love that.

00:45:31.000 Love the Budget Hawk stuff.

00:45:33.000 But at some point, you know, JD Vance made a point.

00:45:36.000 He's, you know, this is politics.

00:45:38.000 When you fight.

00:45:39.000 The party and what the agenda of so many of your colleagues are trying to get accomplished constantly, eventually, you're going to have a lot of enemies.

00:45:48.000 So, again, if he gets elected, I'll be happy.

00:45:50.000 If he doesn't get elected, we're going to deal with that reality as well.

00:45:54.000 Bill Cassidy just lost his primary because he was a senator who voted to convict Trump after January 6th.

00:45:59.000 That was the reason he lost this primary above all.

00:46:01.000 And so, if you are the number one thing that annoys Republicans for the most part is deciding to be a giant thorn in the side.

00:46:11.000 Of the president from their party, especially when they would prefer to be in conflict at war with the left.

00:46:17.000 And I think there are plenty of lawmakers who have navigated the dynamic of disagreeing with President Trump on specific issues, sometimes strongly.

00:46:27.000 There are multiple lawmakers who do that on multiple issues, including even on Iran itself.

00:46:33.000 But Massey has carved out a special brand for himself in that regard.

00:46:37.000 And that unsurprisingly has created a lot of conflict.

00:46:39.000 And listen, part of this is the Trump dynamic.

00:46:42.000 There's no doubt.

00:46:42.000 I'm sure Trump.

00:46:43.000 Played a part in this relationship devolving down.

00:46:46.000 I've seen certain allegations from Marjorie Taylor Greene about how this has happened.

00:46:52.000 And listen, I want us all to be in peace and to be rowing in the same direction.

00:46:57.000 I want unity.

00:46:58.000 Hopefully, if Massey ends up pulling this off, we can do this. 0.54

00:47:00.000 Just one more note, by the way, like there's a lot of groups spending a lot of money in this race, which one, I think is a distraction.

00:47:06.000 I think it's taking resources away from other races to beat Democrats that are more important.

00:47:11.000 So that's my first perspective.

00:47:12.000 Turning Point Action is not involved in this race. 0.99

00:47:15.000 We're not spending money. 0.99

00:47:16.000 We're not doing it.

00:47:17.000 And so we're going to let the chips fall where they may.

00:47:20.000 But I will say, you know, if there's a tweet here from Stephen Miller that I thought was interesting because Ro Khanna says, you know, Thomas Massey is a man of character.

00:47:27.000 He's the type of congressman our founders envision.

00:47:29.000 I hope this.

00:47:30.000 His constituents will see the courage, independence, and sincere love of country he brings to the job.

00:47:34.000 Okay.

00:47:34.000 And he's quoting a New York Times opinion column.

00:47:37.000 Stephen Miller comes back as his Khan is among the most radically liberal anti MAGA extremists to be found in all of Congress.

00:47:42.000 This is the equivalent of being endorsed by Rachel Maddow.

00:47:45.000 I do think that that's interesting.

00:47:47.000 There's a whole discussion here, Alex, about where the money's coming from.

00:47:51.000 There are PACs.

00:47:52.000 There is the APAC.

00:47:54.000 There's Israel aligned PACs.

00:47:56.000 It's not foreign money, by the way.

00:47:57.000 That's a misconception online commonly.

00:48:00.000 These are Americans that do care about Israel.

00:48:03.000 Whatever you think about that, however, there is another side of the coin here where apparently it's only between like 3% and 5% of the funding on Massey's side, who's actually outraised his competitor, Gowren.

00:48:18.000 But there's only 3% to 5% coming from Kentucky.

00:48:21.000 So he's getting a lot of support from outside as well.

00:48:24.000 And so, you know, if you're going to make that critique on one side, you can make it for both in this race.

00:48:29.000 There's a lot of national attention.

00:48:30.000 We understand how it's gone.

00:48:32.000 All right.

00:48:33.000 I think we've made our point clearly here.

00:48:34.000 All right.

00:48:35.000 Last point. 0.57

00:48:36.000 Alex Marlowe, the Iran war drags on. 0.96

00:48:40.000 This is becoming a whole thing.

00:48:42.000 Democrats have basically staked their entire political fortunes on calling Republicans racist after the Supreme Court ruling gutted Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.

00:48:53.000 We're getting rid of these racially gerrymandered districts, especially in the South.

00:49:00.000 Those two dynamics, Iran and racism from the left, how are you looking at all this?

00:49:06.000 How is it going to play out?

00:49:08.000 Yeah, I want to look at this in a neutral way because even though people in our audience, they're going to be so just numb to just being called racist and fascist and all that stuff.

00:49:17.000 But the Democrats really do think this is going to be motivational in terms of voting because they're trying to frame it up as the Republican racist redistricting is what they're fighting against and is giving them a narrative.

00:49:27.000 It's probably their clearest narrative in a while.

00:49:30.000 I was playing a bunch of clips on my podcast earlier today, just going through how the talking points clearly went out.

00:49:37.000 It's the entire party, they're all framing it.

00:49:39.000 Is all the redistricting is based in racism and they think they can win on it.

00:49:43.000 I haven't seen fresh data, but they really do think this is the case.

00:49:46.000 So mark that down.

00:49:47.000 This is happening and they do think this is a winning issue to frame it this way.

00:49:50.000 I hope the American people burned out on it.

00:49:52.000 They don't stand for anything principally, but I think that's a very important point.

00:49:56.000 The next thing, Iran, as you mentioned, the Democrats know that the longer the Iran war goes on, the harder it's going to be for Republicans to win in a midterm.

00:50:05.000 So they want to see it go on.

00:50:07.000 They want to see it prolonged so that they can continue to dunk on Trump for this stuff.

00:50:10.000 They're not looking for him to wrap it up and declare victory.

00:50:13.000 Iran also, ironically, would like for things to go on longer because they know that Trump's going to get a bunch of political pressure, both from his party and from the Democrat Party at home.

00:50:23.000 The media obviously trying to make it so that, write a narrative that we've lost the war no matter what happens.

00:50:29.000 And so these are the two big things that I think are headwinds for President Trump heading into the midterm season kicking off in full flight.

00:50:36.000 I will tell you what.

00:50:37.000 I mean, maybe it's just me, maybe I'm biased, but every time they sling the racism slur at us, I just feel like it falls flat.

00:50:46.000 I feel like we're going to have Eli Steele on next segment to talk about this.

00:50:50.000 He had a great essay out over the weekend explaining what drives so much of our racial dysfunction in here.

00:50:56.000 But we'll just give you a taste of what Alex is talking about.

00:50:59.000 Saw eight.

00:51:00.000 I have to just tell the truth. 0.97

00:51:02.000 There are people in this hostile anti black administration that would rather black Americans pick cotton than pick the president, than pick their congressperson, than pick a senator. 0.94

00:51:16.000 Well, that's just civically. 1.00

00:51:21.000 Idiotic, actually, because a sitting senator is chosen by the whole state and they don't have the votes in the South to get their senators in most races. 0.99

00:51:30.000 Anyways, the point is, Alex, you're totally right. 0.99

00:51:33.000 I mean, I've got 14 clips of this that I could choose from as well.

00:51:37.000 And that's what they're staking their whole thing.

00:51:38.000 I will tell you this I would prefer this over the anti ICE narrative after Minneapolis, where you had Rachel Good and Alex Pretty that were killed.

00:51:46.000 Yeah, I think this is far less important.

00:51:48.000 I think we got to be able to beat this.

00:51:49.000 We got to be able to beat this one.

00:51:50.000 It's not a strong one. 1.00

00:51:52.000 And have you guys ever talked to anyone who wants black people picking cotton? 0.98

00:51:55.000 It's so, she's going too far back. 0.98

00:51:57.000 She's reaching too far back.

00:51:58.000 Yeah.

00:51:58.000 Alex Marlowe, thank you, my friend.

00:52:00.000 We'll talk to you soon.

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00:53:48.000 All right, without further ado, I want to bring in our next guest, and that is, of course, Eli Steele.

00:53:55.000 He is a filmmaker, an American, proudly.

00:53:58.000 Whiteguiltfilm.com, and you can find him on Substack at manofsteel.substack.com.

00:54:05.000 Welcome to the show, Eli Steele.

00:54:07.000 Thank you for having me.

00:54:08.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:54:09.000 It's an honor to have you.

00:54:11.000 You know, Charlie had your father on the show a couple of times.

00:54:15.000 It was always a great pleasure.

00:54:17.000 And you've really taken up his mission, and you're doing a great job.

00:54:22.000 I was really profoundly moved by a piece you wrote.

00:54:25.000 You published on X. I'm assuming it's on your Substacks as well.

00:54:28.000 But you said you're basically taking issue, I think, kindly, gently, with Gad's position, suicidal empathy, who's another guy that we love on this show.

00:54:38.000 And I think Gad's. 0.54

00:54:39.000 Contribution to this discussion is important, but he said, Whites, you said this in your piece, you said, Whites stood accused by history. 0.52

00:54:47.000 They had failed the founding idea of all men are created equal and were stigmatized as a group. 0.56

00:54:52.000 Whether or not they had personally owned slaves or enforced Jim Crow, the question that haunted many of them was not, how do I feel for you, but how do I prove I'm not one of the racists?

00:55:02.000 This condition of societal guilt, not the emotion of empathy, became an organizing principle of American public life.

00:55:10.000 You underscore that you believe that so much of our racial dysfunction in this country is caused by fear, not empathy.

00:55:17.000 Explain, sir.

00:55:19.000 Thank you for having me.

00:55:20.000 And this is my first time on the show.

00:55:22.000 So you already may not know that I am deaf.

00:55:25.000 So I have a deaf action.

00:55:27.000 But to your question, yeah, I mean, you're pointing out to something I think that's very fundamental, which is we're talking about collective guilt here.

00:55:37.000 America has practiced racism, whether it's slavery or segregation, for almost four centuries. 0.55

00:55:46.000 And it's another thing that's very important to remember that America was a very Christian country.

00:55:52.000 And the civil rights movement was a Christian movement.

00:55:56.000 And which form of Christianity was white? 0.67

00:55:59.000 Because Christianity had been kind of the furthest to explain slavery, to explain deprivation. 0.57

00:56:05.000 And that was a huge problem.

00:56:06.000 So, white America, which always pride itself on having that innocence, of having that special thing.

00:56:15.000 And the civil rights movement said, no, you are not innocent. 0.54

00:56:20.000 You enslaved us.

00:56:22.000 And that created a huge fallout or collision in the 1960s where white America realized, oh, we're not on the top morally as we thought that we were. 0.53

00:56:34.000 And that spread to all of white America, whether you were a slave owner or you actually participated in deprecation, or even if you didn't, your white skin was enough of a condemnation.

00:56:48.000 And I think that story was misty from this whole suicidal empathy question because it sort of focuses on the individual. 0.58

00:56:55.000 Empathy begins as an individual emotion, and you're kind of trying to steal that out.

00:57:01.000 I'm arguing the opposite that there was a collective judgment from the outside on white America, and that went into the minds of many people.

00:57:13.000 They said, Okay, how do I achieve innocence?

00:57:17.000 How do I achieve moral authority?

00:57:21.000 And my father obviously calls this false innocence because.

00:57:25.000 Only true innocence can be done through true means of repentance.

00:57:33.000 In other words, if we had done it the right way, we would have focused on developing the people that we had oppressed. 0.84

00:57:42.000 Instead, we focused on white redemption, what we call the left, what we call the post-discipline liberalism. 0.82

00:57:50.000 So it became all about white redemption rather than actually doing the much more difficult work. 0.85

00:57:57.000 Coming together as a country and repairing the damage. 0.95

00:58:01.000 No, exactly, Eli.

00:58:05.000 It really feels like a regression to, you might even say, pre biblical morality.

00:58:10.000 Charlie loved to cite that in the Old Testament, one of its innovations is to say, you do not punish children for the sins of their fathers, that individuals' choices matter, individual decisions matter.

00:58:23.000 Whereas many other moral codes don't take that.

00:58:26.000 They do consider it normal to.

00:58:28.000 Do collective punishment. 0.81

00:58:30.000 In China, a very common punishment was if someone committed treason, you killed their wife, their children, their parents, sometimes even their friends and associates. 1.00

00:58:40.000 And that was totally normal. 0.71

00:58:42.000 And this is doing the same thing that it's reviving this pre biblical morality of you are responsible for the decisions of your ancestors.

00:58:51.000 In fact, your entire race, you're responsible for those.

00:58:56.000 It is blood guilt.

00:58:57.000 And they've brought that back and it's created this psychosis in a lot of people.

00:59:02.000 I do agree, though.

00:59:03.000 It's fear.

00:59:05.000 Fear of being stigmatized with the racist word, fear of being called a bigot.

00:59:10.000 We have turned that into American society is the number one insult, the number one.

00:59:16.000 You know, assault on somebody's character conceivable, right?

00:59:20.000 It doesn't matter if you're a pedophile, if you killed somebody, you know, we'll let you out of bond without cashless bond if you did those things. 0.80

00:59:28.000 But if you're a racist, then that is the number one chief sin that you can commit as an American. 0.59

00:59:34.000 And how they did that is really, really fascinating.

00:59:37.000 Now, that doesn't, so what we've done, Eli, is we've completely cut out the knees from logical conversations, common sense conversations about crime, about education, about fatherlessness.

00:59:48.000 And instead, it's just a blanket pejorative they can sling at you to make sure you're not allowed in polite society.

00:59:55.000 You're not allowed to run for office.

00:59:57.000 You're not allowed to lead a company.

00:59:58.000 You're not allowed to be a part of a church. 1.00

01:00:00.000 If you are the R word, they will take you out of everything.

01:00:03.000 And that has created a paralyzing fear in the American body politic.

01:00:08.000 And I think we're finally, the further we get away from the 1960s, we're finally seeing a true reawakening where we can have actual discussions about race, politics, culture, and these sorts of things.

01:00:19.000 That's why I think your piece is so powerful, Eli.

01:00:22.000 Yeah, and I think this staff piece is very helpful in many ways because what he is doing is he is describing, I think, what is the symptom.

01:00:32.000 Yeah, you could call it shooting shadow empathy.

01:00:34.000 I mean, I agree with it, but I don't think it's invaluable because I think it helps a lot of people focus on what's going on in the country.

01:00:42.000 And maybe we should get deeper beyond that because I think that when you were talking about blood, you know, paying for the stains of the fathers, that is about the most anti American principle.

01:00:55.000 Yes.

01:00:55.000 We are a nation of individuals.

01:00:58.000 We broke away from aristocratic Europe, where the first son had all the power.

01:01:05.000 We said, no, everybody has a chance.

01:01:08.000 Everybody's individual.

01:01:10.000 We created the whole family principles all around the protection of the individual.

01:01:17.000 And what we could call them, bad actors or something like that, they saw an opportunity in the 1960s.

01:01:26.000 They said white America is guilty.

01:01:30.000 That's our power. 0.87

01:01:31.000 That's why my father says that white guilt is literally the same as black power. 0.80

01:01:37.000 Not only that, across Europe, we have colonialism. 0.70

01:01:42.000 So now you have colonial guilt. 0.80

01:01:44.000 So now you see how whites all across America, this is why when George Floyd happened, you had the UK, you had Sweden, Finland, Germany, all bowing down to Black Lives Matters. 0.70

01:01:58.000 Because they responded to this Western guilt, which we should kind of call white guilt in general. 0.66

01:02:03.000 But all of that, I think the whole purpose of it is to undermine the individual and force us into a tribal society, back into, I guess, what you call any pre biblical times where we are tribal.

01:02:17.000 This is very anti Western.

01:02:19.000 And this is why my father and I, we believe it is the most destructive force that's going on in the Western world, because if we do become tribal, And we will have to redefend America somewhere else.

01:02:36.000 And there's nowhere else to go at this point.

01:02:38.000 And I think it's very telling when you look at that SPLC story, too, Eli, how they knew that if you could weaponize white supremacy, if you could create a boogeyman that rested upon this foundation, this narrative that had been created in the post 1960s world, then you could monetize it, you could weaponize it, you could send it to the DOJ, and you could criminalize it.

01:02:58.000 You can do all of this with the cudgel of racism, of guilt, of fear that has paralyzed our culture.

01:03:05.000 And if we are paralyzed by this fear, we will lose Western civilization, we will lose confidence in ourselves, the confidence we need to build this.

01:03:14.000 This civilization that we know and love, the greatest that the world has ever known.

01:03:19.000 Eli Steele, you can check him out at Substack, manofsteele.com, and check out this new essay.

01:03:25.000 I think it's super important, Eli, to the discussion.

01:03:28.000 Thank you so much for your time, my friend.

01:03:30.000 Thank you for having me.

01:03:32.000 God bless you.

01:03:33.000 Really important conversation there.

01:03:35.000 Okay, we got a ton of emails from you guys about Thomas Massey.

01:03:39.000 A bunch of emails about Massey, and from various perspectives.

01:03:42.000 Deluge.

01:03:43.000 Various perspectives, I will say, and we should acknowledge that.

01:03:45.000 Yeah.

01:03:46.000 Would you say it's about 50 50?

01:03:47.000 I actually probably would say, which is notable for someone who is in conflict with the president.

01:03:47.000 I haven't reviewed it.

01:03:53.000 One from Ali says Massey would rather grandstand about balancing the budget than stop Iran from building ballistic missiles.

01:03:59.000 He voted against Trump's big, beautiful bill that delivered tax cuts for Americans.

01:04:03.000 He's done nothing to help JD Vance go after the massive fraud and waste that is actually draining our budget.

01:04:10.000 Priorities matter.

01:04:12.000 But then Jamie says, I love Massey.

01:04:15.000 We need more Rand Pauls and more Thomas Masseys.

01:04:17.000 I want him to vote yes where he can.

01:04:19.000 But he has always been against spending.

01:04:21.000 This isn't new.

01:04:22.000 I understand the loyalty issue, though.

01:04:24.000 Democrats also vote together, but I think we have so many rhinos that it has become impossible for Republicans. 0.99

01:04:31.000 I wish we would focus on removing rhinos, though, before the Massey types.

01:04:36.000 Someone says, Tell Rhino Andrew that Massey does not have any points.

01:04:42.000 So I think he's saying, You said he had a point on something.

01:04:44.000 Oh, I see.

01:04:45.000 He's saying, No, Massey.

01:04:46.000 No, okay, listen, I'll stand by it.

01:04:47.000 Massey's good on war, he's good on Maha, he's good on spending.

01:04:51.000 All right.

01:04:52.000 And then we have another one.

01:04:54.000 This was actually from a few days ago, but I thought it meshed well with this.

01:04:57.000 Massey was on my friends list, but I have been telling people for a couple of years that libertarians are planning to sabotage MAGA by helping Democrats because they hate tariffs and they are pro China.

01:05:08.000 Big tech wants them to fund the libertarians to destroy our movement.

01:05:13.000 At some point, it no longer matters whether people are good on some things.

01:05:18.000 His opponent should be endorsed.

01:05:20.000 So that's a good representation.

01:05:22.000 I mean, we actually got one from someone who says that.

01:05:25.000 They're so pro-Massy that if he loses, they're going to vote Democrat from now on.

01:05:29.000 So that's a very strong opinion.

01:05:31.000 This is a giant psyop.

01:05:32.000 We disagree on that for sure.

01:05:34.000 Zero reason to vote Democrat. 0.69

01:05:35.000 Listen, Democrats are an anti-civilizational force.

01:05:38.000 Yes.

01:05:39.000 Let me prove this to you.

01:05:41.000 There are, let's just bring up the real numbers, okay?

01:05:45.000 So these are the same people that let Irina Zarutska's killer out after multiple, multiple violent crimes in this man's past.

01:05:54.000 All right.

01:05:54.000 We've got another story of the, I mean, it's like every day there's a new story.

01:05:58.000 That's what Democrats do. 0.97

01:06:00.000 Democrats are the ones that flooded the borders and want to replace American voters with more compliant third worlders. 0.98

01:06:08.000 Democrats are the ones that want to blow the entire federal budget to give freebies to foreigners, to give Green New Deal scams, all this stuff. 0.95

01:06:17.000 They are agents of chaos, quite literally.

01:06:20.000 They don't believe in merit, they believe in DEI, they don't believe in equality, they believe in equity.

01:06:25.000 Every single point that they choose is equity.

01:06:29.000 Going in the wrong direction.

01:06:31.000 Literally.

01:06:31.000 Every single point.

01:06:32.000 I've got nothing for them. 1.00

01:06:33.000 They want to kill babies at nine months old.

01:06:36.000 What could you possibly want to defend them on?

01:06:39.000 Now, if you're an accelerationist, right, let me deal with you guys too.

01:06:43.000 If you're an accelerationist who wants to burn it all down so that you can rebuild a party in your image, it doesn't work.

01:06:49.000 All they will do is get stronger, entrench their power more deeply, and cause more chaos, destruction, and carnage in their wake.

01:06:57.000 Do you think that we are going to anytime soon get out from under the 10 to 15 million illegals that they let flood this country in just four years of Joe Biden? 0.95

01:07:06.000 In four years. 0.99

01:07:07.000 They darn near killed the country.

01:07:09.000 Four years.

01:07:10.000 So if that's your plan, I couldn't disagree with you more strongly.

01:07:14.000 Yeah.

01:07:15.000 So it's like, for example, we read the Ro Khanna tweet endorsing Massey.

01:07:18.000 And yeah, Ro, he is a somewhat different Democrat in that he sometimes finds issues to collaborate with bullies on TikTok.

01:07:24.000 But you can check this.

01:07:25.000 You can just check this where Ro Khanna, he supports amnesty for illegal immigrants with a path to citizenship. 0.95

01:07:31.000 Ro Khanna, all in on the trans cult, totally loves all of that stuff. 0.87

01:07:35.000 Ro Khanna, all in on COVID. 1.00

01:07:38.000 Vaccine, no bodily autonomy in that.

01:07:40.000 You know, all in on the George Floyd riots as a reparation.

01:07:45.000 He wants, he's actually wants a, I checked that.

01:07:47.000 He wants to investigate possible reparations for Americans.

01:07:52.000 Do you want to know how Americans say it?

01:07:53.000 No, but it's just this thing happens over and over.

01:07:57.000 And if you're going to say, I'm going to vote Democrat as a protest thing, you are voting for the great solvent of our civilization.

01:08:04.000 You are voting to create California for the entire country.

01:08:08.000 And if you want to see how things are going, you can look at California right now.

01:08:11.000 California.

01:08:12.000 Can't build anything. 1.00

01:08:13.000 California is just in perpetual thrall to the worst excesses of labor.

01:08:19.000 They basically are just controlled by a cartel that defrauds their state government with the willing connivance of the state government itself.

01:08:27.000 That is the future of the country if you lean into this.

01:08:31.000 And we're frustrated if Massey is enabling that to come about, even if he is on our side for a bunch of different issues.

01:08:39.000 But if you're going to look at this and say, I'm mad over a house race, I am now going to switch to the other party.

01:08:46.000 You need to get your head checked.

01:08:47.000 Well, and here's, and listen, I understand the president can be difficult to deal with.

01:08:51.000 Lauren Boeber is running into some of this, and, you know, Warren Davidson, who's, they're all campaigning with Massey.

01:08:58.000 Listen, if Massey wins, we're, we're going to be just fine.

01:09:01.000 We're going to deal with it, and it's, and it's great.

01:09:03.000 I, I don't dislike Massey in a broad sense.

01:09:05.000 That's all I'm saying.

01:09:06.000 But if you're going to vote Democrat because you don't like the way this race goes, that's insanity.

01:09:11.000 Do you, this is how insane it gets.

01:09:12.000 Throw up these numbers.

01:09:13.000 This is from the FBI.

01:09:14.000 Did you know that because we've become so insane about our racial discourse in this country because of Democrats? 0.94

01:09:20.000 Because of left wing progressives, their murder rate is now at one out of every 22 black men will murder someone in their lives. 0.89

01:09:29.000 That's that red column in the middle. 0.78

01:09:31.000 That is the fruits of the left. 0.59

01:09:33.000 The vast majority of those murders are being enabled or inspired by a very small percentage of people that we can't ever get off the streets because they believe in no cash bail and all this garbage.

01:09:44.000 And these judges have been co opted by the radical left.

01:09:47.000 There is not one single issue where I could get on board with Democrats.

01:09:50.000 Not one.

01:09:52.000 So I completely disagree with the accelerationist burn it all down protest vote.

01:09:57.000 What's going to happen in Kentucky is going to be decided by Kentuckians in that district.

01:10:01.000 Let it play out.

01:10:03.000 That's my final word.

01:10:08.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - May 18, 2026

Thomas Massie: Hero or Villain?

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