00:00:56.000The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
00:01:09.000All right, welcome back to Thought Crime Thursdays.
00:01:20.000He is in an undisclosed bunker in the state of California, the People's Republic of Communist California.
00:01:27.000He looks like me being in California is itself a thought crime.
00:01:31.000Gavin Newsom, I told you I was coming, buddy.
00:01:34.000He looks like he's been like, when we had extraordinary rendition, it looks like he's been rendered to like a CIA black site in Yugoslavia or something.
00:01:46.000I'm reverting to my proper form as Postilviates Family.
00:01:51.000You guys saw there was that doppelganger of me that got, I guess, like kicked out of the FBI for being gay, and he's like suing about over this.
00:03:44.000Is the political fallout already too great?
00:03:46.000Man, I actually really want to get to that Sidney Sweeney thing because I have a hot take that I think we're all being set up by Sidney See.
00:04:39.000Let me just say, because it is a serious thing, right?
00:04:41.000Like joking aside or whatever, and like binder jokes aside, like which I've had to go through and talk about for months now.
00:04:49.000You know, this is something that was avoidable in terms of the political fallout.
00:04:52.000I don't think it ever needed to be like this.
00:04:55.000This was something that Trump had campaigned on.
00:04:58.000This is something that MAGA has always stood for going back to like 2016 was, you know, justice for Jeffrey Epstein was exposing Jeffrey Epstein.
00:05:09.000By the way, it was Trump's DOJ that actually arrested Epstein in the first place, which is something that I don't think he gets a lot of credit for in his first term.
00:05:16.000Like he literally arrested Jeffrey Epstein, but no one gives him any credit for it.
00:05:21.000But this whole thing with the files and the release, and then there's not going to be a release, and then there was nothing.
00:05:44.000I think it's kind of a stand-in for establishment versus like anti-establishment.
00:05:51.000So if you're pro-establishment, you must not want the Epstein files released.
00:05:55.000If you're anti-establishment, you want the Epstein files released.
00:05:57.000So it's something that for a lot of no-prop voters and low-prop voters and independents, it just became this huge proxy fight over whether or not you are part of quote-unquote the club or not.
00:06:10.000And so, look, obviously, I've always stood for full disclosure.
00:06:14.000And I'm like, look, people want to come at me.
00:06:16.000And I'm like, I went to the White House.
00:08:10.000People, I don't know how much we could really say about it, but it really was.
00:08:13.000It was such a frustrating period because we had episodes where people were really angry at Charlie, as was far too often the case, where Charlie was trying to be a helpful messenger.
00:08:23.000He's trying to tell the White House, trying to tell others, guys, people are serious about this.
00:08:44.000And we saw it over and over again that people were walking up to us at Student Action Summit, were saying, oh, wow, we're really upset about this.
00:08:51.000And we were trying to convey that to people.
00:08:54.000Yeah, no, and I'll never forget some of the conversations that Charlie and I had had.
00:08:59.000We'd look at each other going like, this is bad.
00:09:02.000You know, like, people are really fired up about this.
00:09:06.000And if we're going to tell the world how fired up they are about it, then we're going to run into people who don't understand where we're coming from.
00:09:15.000And it's going to cause some consternation.
00:09:19.000But I knew that between that and really what happened with the Iran strikes, I just knew that there was this fissure that was happening emerging, especially with Gen Z voters, which we had spent so much time courting in 2024.
00:09:35.000And I think Charlie was, you know, pretty legitimately worried about it.
00:09:40.000I think he was justified in some of his worries.
00:09:42.000So now the question is to the team, I guess I'll ask, maybe Mikey, this is a good time to bring you in.
00:09:48.000Is it too late to restore the trust that's maybe been damaged in this Epstein debacle?
00:09:57.000But here's, you think back to the Russian hoax where a lot of people thought it was true and Trump was saying it's not true and the American people were getting a little bit frustrated thinking maybe there's more that was swept under the rug here.
00:10:09.000But time and again, Epstein is this pathological liar so much to the point where you even saw the Dems pushing this narrative that he spent Thanksgiving with him.
00:10:19.000And then you find on Melania's ex-account that they had Thanksgiving with some troops in some random area that Epstein wasn't even nearby.
00:10:31.000And there is a reality here where Trump has just called this thing a hoax because it truly is a hoax.
00:10:38.000And once it is inevitably released, which my question actually, I do want to ask Blake how long it will actually take to get these things released realistically.
00:10:49.000But once these things are released, I want to see how many of these people take accountability.
00:10:54.000If Trump is totally innocent, if all these people are totally innocent, how many people will take responsibility for their words, their actions, having gotten so upset at Charlie, at different people saying that they're lying about the Epstein files, that Trump's actually in there.
00:11:09.000But something else that I found out last night, too, that I just think is a funny little tidbit, and I'd love for maybe Blake to answer the question on how long it'll actually take for these things to get released is Epstein's youngest victim was in fact five years older than the prophet Muhammad's.
00:11:27.000And so this is, I just, not to bring this thing back to Islam, have that to remember that.
00:11:32.000That's a good thing to be talking about.
00:12:02.000We used to have a much more polite society, which made us susceptible to being hoodwinked and taken advantage of by domineering, conquering cultures like Islam.
00:12:13.000And now we've had to wake up and now we can't flinch.
00:12:43.000A lot of bad ideas took root, and we're still reaping the consequences of it.
00:12:48.000So, Blake, is it too late when we release the Epstein files?
00:12:51.000The problem with the Epstein files, in my opinion, is it's the sort of thing where people have read so much, they believe so much about it that is truthfully not proven that I think, in a sense, nothing can satisfy the most hardcore Epstein people.
00:13:07.000Other than, I guess, you could imagine, oh, found the secret trove.
00:13:10.000Here's all of the, here's, here's 850 different global elites, and they were all pedophiles, and here's like their kids, and here's where their bodies are buried, and they all have to be dragged off to prison or execution now.
00:15:19.000So having been now subjected to, and I think everybody could appreciate this on this on this show, being in the middle of conspiracy theories where you're like, that's subject matter.
00:15:52.000Because I'm like conspiracy theorist on a lot of things, but I was actually having that conversation with you too, Andrew, where I was like, I always just kind of take everything with a grain of salt, but now I'm taking every conspiracy with a grain of salt.
00:16:07.000Like, I'm questioning it, you know, is this really legit?
00:16:10.000I'm more taking a Blake black pill stance on everything now.
00:16:22.000So, okay, I know that Dan and Cash took a bunch of crap when they came out and they were like, there's, you know, no list and he didn't kill himself or he did kill himself.
00:17:06.000The claim that we've run into that you'll hear is that, you know, it was a massive pedophile ring or that it was a pedophile espionage ring.
00:17:46.000Well, here's the other thing, too, actually, because I do want to just talk about conspiracies in general.
00:17:53.000Because someone gave me really good advice on this, and I think it is very good.
00:17:59.000The skeptics, people that have skepticism and they're questioning of you or things you're involved in, oftentimes are the ones you want to win over because behind their skepticism is deep loyalty.
00:18:12.000And once you win them over, they trust you and there's a deep-rooted trust and loyalty behind it.
00:18:18.000So, I mean, I'm not coming after conspiracy theorists.
00:18:23.000But Blake and I actually go back and forth on these.
00:18:26.000But I just want to clarify that as, you know, Andrew, we were having this conversation on, you know, I take everything with a grain of salt now.
00:18:34.000Yeah, well, so at the time of the alleged incident.
00:18:37.000You can lied to about so many things and then not ask questions.
00:19:07.000Actually, let me look up more of the stuff that I remember reading about it before I just go off.
00:19:12.000But Virginia Guffrey, she made, we know she made wild allegations against people because she ended up getting wrecked in court on the basis of it.
00:19:21.000And well, here's, here, can I, I'll just add a grain of salt to that, right?
00:19:25.000And and I, and I'm not disagreeing with you.
00:19:28.000I'm just saying that when you deal with people who have gone through sexual assault, sexual trauma, especially when it was done at a young age, at a vulnerable age, it typically does not leave them in a place where they are your like model witness, right?
00:19:49.000It certainly does mess with your memories.
00:19:51.000Now add to the fact that there are drugs and alcohol and all sorts of other things involved in this.
00:19:58.000So this is why these cases in general are so very hard to bring in the first place in court.
00:20:04.000No offense, Jack, but I heard that exact explanation of things when we were going through, frankly, a pretty big episode of American Hysteria, which was the campus sexual assault hysteria, where you had case after case after case, dozens of them, where people brought allegations against fellow classmates, against professors, mostly fellow classmates, though.
00:20:27.000Where they would say, where like there would be stories that didn't add up.
00:20:32.000They would say, well, actually, you know, if their story is actually not consistent with the fact that you're lame back, that's evidence that it's true.
00:20:40.000Yeah, so here, the official numbers, so there's a July 2025 memo from the U.S. Department of Justice and FBI, following a comprehensive review of Epstein's files, concluded that he victimized over 1,000 women and children over two decades.
00:20:56.000There have been 36 identified victims in the 2005-2008 Florida investigation and more than 200 represented in lawsuits.
00:21:06.000So, and then I guess Epstein's estate compensation fund has 225 claims against it.
00:21:20.000So, they made up a thing where you can get money if you say that you were abused by Jeffrey Epstein.
00:21:25.000And we know people have gotten payouts from that who are not very reliable.
00:21:29.000Again, a person who claims that she was abducted by UFOs as part of the Epstein thing got money through that compensation fund.
00:21:37.000The Epstein victims compensation program established by his estate is valued at over $600 million at the time of his death, received 225 applications from alleged victims.
00:21:46.000Of these, 150 were deemed eligible, and the fund paid out over $121 million with 92% of eligible claimants accepting.
00:22:05.000I mean, it would have to be a ring to pay out 150 people, right?
00:22:09.000Yeah, so it would have to be a much bigger pool of people because think about all the people that didn't apply.
00:22:17.000But to Blake's point, like, you know, so there was some footage of this going around this week where some of these women were like, why don't you name the victims?
00:22:23.000And they're like, we shouldn't have to.
00:24:05.000Let me come at this from another area because you just mentioned the emails, right?
00:24:08.000And we have seen some emails released.
00:24:10.000And like Jon Stewart was losing his mind on me last night.
00:24:13.000So he brought up me and his monologue and was like, he's like, I can't believe Psovik isn't talking about these emails, which clearly reference Trump.
00:24:22.000And I was like, I did talk about the emails.
00:24:24.000He was talking about how he was trying to blackmail Trump or sneer Trump, smear Trump, or like ensnare him in his legal problems.
00:24:33.000But there were no emails where he was like, oh, hey, me and Donald Trump need to cover up that thing we did on the island.
00:24:40.000Like there's nothing like that in the emails.
00:24:45.000But here's what's really weird, though, is have you guys seen these emails about Jeffrey Epstein where he's like, oh, let me set up a back channel with Lavrov in Syria.
00:24:56.000Let me just connect you with like these Middle East partners.
00:25:00.000Like, I do think there should be some scrutiny and, you know, beyond what we were just talking about, beyond the sex stuff, because this guy seems to be conducting a very odd level of shadow diplomacy between himself, world leaders, power brokers, all over.
00:25:20.000And I don't know that we've ever actually gotten a seriously, you know, robust explanation for how he was able to do all this and how he's able to conduct this shadow diplomacy.
00:25:30.000And so I can certainly see why people would think that when you add to that, this sort of club of people that surrounds him, this coterie going down to his island and doing these things and being involved with underage girls, that it seems to all be connected.
00:25:49.000This is much more of a crank theory, but I've kind of been amused by the idea.
00:25:53.000So Epstein did have, he had involvement with a former Israeli prime minister.
00:25:56.000He clearly was in contact with Israeli intelligence stuff.
00:26:01.000Definitely is the best point in favor of some sort of conspiracy going on.
00:26:04.000But I've also entertained the idea, what if Epstein himself basically believed in Israel conspiracy theories?
00:26:10.000So he thought, if I'm buds with a former Israeli prime minister and other people in our government, they'll protect me from getting arrested.
00:26:29.000You could just, you can look that up on Wikipedia.
00:26:32.000I mean, the most obvious explanation here is that he was probably loosely connected with a lot of these governments, had these loose affiliations, friendships.
00:26:42.000He was known as an international financier, which, and he was buds with all these powerful people.
00:26:47.000So once you become a known commodity, you start getting like welcomed into more and more social circles.
00:26:53.000Plus, he had no scruples, so he's willing to do dirty deals, and he was probably a useful financial sort of launderer of money to connect dots that other people wouldn't do.
00:27:04.000I mean, I've never been convinced that he was actually in the pocket of any one of these groups.
00:27:09.000He was sort of like a gun for hire if somebody needed something done and he was willing to sort of connect the dots and be the go-between and get the money from point A to point B.
00:27:18.000And he probably took up his pound of flesh along the way.
00:27:23.000I'm not convinced that he was necessarily doing the honeypot thing.
00:27:28.000It's just as plausible to me that he could have just been a really sick, like perverted fetishist that was into slightly illegal or barely illegal.
00:27:45.000It's almost like he's the kind of guy that once they turn 18 or 19, he lost interest.
00:27:49.000Like there was something deeply sick about this guy.
00:27:52.000It could have just been that he liked that and he wanted to have parties with other people he was interested in and try and get them involved too.
00:27:58.000The honeypot thing, I'm not 1,000% convinced about this.
00:28:02.000I would just say if there was a honeypot, I just think there'd be some actual evidence for it.
00:28:06.000And people really love the ideas of elaborate blackmail rings.
00:28:11.000And it's like, I would always question this if we would have members of Congress and stuff come on and say, oh yeah, members of Congress get blackmailed by the intelligence agencies to do what they want.
00:28:20.000And all I would say is, if you say that's happening, if you know that's happening, give me a name of someone who did it because you'd instantly be a hero if you could name a person with a specific situation where this happened.
00:28:32.000I think they love to traffic in ideas that sound lurid or dramatic or cinematic, we might say.
00:28:41.000But there's got to be pressure to actually go after what we know, what is provable.
00:28:47.000People are saying, again, with these victims where they're saying, why don't you name some people to accuse?
00:28:51.000And they'll come up with explanations like, well, they shouldn't have to, or they'll say, we could be sued because we signed an NDA.
00:28:58.000I would counter that with a few things.
00:29:00.000First of all, if they're waiting for names to get released through documents, it kind of creates this, I would invite the possibility they're worried they would name someone who would then actually be totally exonerated by documents coming out or someone who just doesn't show up at all.
00:29:16.000Whereas once names come out, they can go, oh yeah, that person, that's the person who did it.
00:29:22.000That's not, that seems a little weird.
00:29:24.000And also, I would say, this might be naive of me, but given the frenzy that is around this, if they name a specific person, I think that person is, I think they're unlikely to get sued for violating an NDA right now.
00:29:51.000Ultimately, the fact that we're still arguing about this is the real reason why this issue was a hot potato for President Trump and the admin is because there is such a hunger to know what the truth is and there is such an inability seemingly to get to the truth.
00:30:06.000So listen, I think it's good that President Trump has come out and said, hey, I want this to all be public.
00:30:18.000If they would have, even though we're arguing if it's too late or not too late, what we probably can agree on is if there was a better, more proactive strategy coming right into this second administration with handling this, that was.
00:30:33.000Even if it wasn't what people wanted to hear, I think we would have been able to get past it and it would have probably, I mean, Hindsight's always 2020, but like, obviously, I don't think people took this as seriously.
00:30:45.000Or I think some of the thought process was that the White House was like, oh, well, you know, we can maybe kick this down the road up here.
00:30:56.000Like this was like a hot topic of a few years ago and it's like kind of dead.
00:31:00.000And there's other bigger issues that we're dealing with.
00:31:03.000And I think that probably, again, Hindsight's always 2020, but regardless of what the outcome was, they should have just handled this basically in January, like come right out and be like, we're just going to get this taken care of and over with.
00:31:16.000And yeah, I still think, yeah, and I, by the way, Jack, I think the whole binder thing that they put you through, which was a total farce, and I feel bad for you for that, because you were just trying.
00:31:28.000I don't know the story there, but apparently you weren't even thinking that that was going to happen.
00:31:37.000I mean, I've said this, like, I went on Piers the next day and talked about it after the memo came out, but I was like, it was a series of policy briefings that we were invited to.
00:31:46.000And so, like, Bobby Kennedy came in and Marco Rubio came in and JD Vance started the whole thing off.
00:31:52.000And then we went to the Oval Office and, you know, got pictures, very cool, got the challenge coins.
00:32:00.000And that's when that was the very first time at that point that we heard anything about Epstein.
00:32:07.000Like, Epstein was just not even on the list or the agenda at all.
00:32:12.000Here's my read on what happened there is because we talked about the difference between Trump and whether or not he campaigned on it versus the movement has always stood for it.
00:32:23.000And I think even Trump's own administration was like, hey, of course we're going to start bringing transparency to this Epstein thing.
00:32:31.000And then Pam Bondi kind of got kind of mud slung on her from that whole situation.
00:33:02.000There was just a disconnect because there was a disconnect from the top to kind of the bottom, you know?
00:33:09.000Andrew, do you think, do you think this is one of those things, and maybe even writ large, that like it's also a split between like where you get your media?
00:33:19.000Because so on social media, this has been the number one story for like a decade.
00:34:37.000But it's a story that serves as a proxy, as you said, for so many different stories.
00:34:42.000Like, you know, what we saw with trafficking, what we saw with the sound of freedom, what we've seen with just the sexualization of young people, what we've seen from the elites and the globalists.
00:34:54.000And I mean, it was just like the story has everything, right?
00:34:58.000Like international espionage, high finance.
00:35:14.000And I think to Blake's point, though, there's so much there that it's tempting and seductive to believe that it ties all the disparate pieces of how we made sense of the world over the last eight to 10 years, where it just is inevitably going to fall short.
00:35:31.000The truth is going to fall short of the narrative that we've sort of sold ourselves or that we've speculated about endlessly over the years.
00:35:40.000And it's weird because almost it takes somebody like Trump who's been exposed to that echelon of American life and international life to understand that it's just not as cool as we think of it in our own heads.
00:35:56.000But again, that's where a guy like Trump maybe couldn't, President Trump maybe couldn't see it because he's been living in that rarefied air for so long.
00:36:04.000But we, the people, the base, it makes sense of so much, but ultimately it's inevitable that it will fall short.
00:39:26.000You know, you brought up something at the end of Trump 1.0 where Mark Milley sent out that it was, I think it was after January 6th, and it basically was like, you know, reminder to everyone.
00:39:36.000No, it was during Summer of Floyd, Summer of Floyd.
00:39:41.000The remember you're he maybe did another one after January 6th, but the one I was thinking of when we talked about it the other day was Summer of Floyd during the riots in D.C.
00:39:50.000And he sends the letter to all the troops being like, remember, we swear an oath to the Constitution, and the Constitution includes the right to protest and speak.
00:40:16.000And I feel like they might be laying the groundwork for that here, too.
00:40:19.000They want Democrats very clearly want someone in the military to just say they are not going to obey the president's orders on the border, on immigration, on drug traffickers.
00:40:32.000They want to create that constitutional crisis so they can justify what we know to be true, which is a huge amount of D.C., is effectively hostile to the elected president of the United States.
00:40:43.000And they think that they can engineer some, you know, a bureaucratic or military undermining of that elected presidency, which would be very bad for the country, to say the least.
00:40:54.000Let's get another clip before we go on.
00:40:56.000Chuck Schumer decided to react to this.
00:41:43.000All I'm going to say is if Trump is going to arrest lawmakers, he should arrest Ilhan Omar to denaturalize her and send her back to Somalia.
00:41:58.000She used the classic Democrat phrase where she was like, she posted Trump's truth socials and she was like, this is not normal.
00:42:05.000And I'm like, okay, Ilhan Omar, can you just inform us what exactly is normal for sedition and treason in Somalia, your home country?
00:42:14.000Can we talk about what they do to people in Somalia?
00:42:18.000Mikey, perhaps you have some thoughts on the matter as to what they do in Somalia to traitors.
00:42:25.000I just, I think, to Blake's point, why would Chuck Schumer be immediately taking to the floor and saying something like this when his murderous dictator president is threatening to kill members of Congress?
00:42:40.000And then on top of that, these clips are so funny to me.
00:42:44.000But then on top of that, like you have the no-kings protest.
00:42:47.000This is what the Democratic Party stands for.
00:42:49.000It's just, it takes something that is nothing at all, and then they paint it in the most radical picture as possible, which is Trump is a king.
00:42:59.000Trump wants to hang members of Congress.
00:43:02.000But I mean, if you actually want to look at the most radical, disgusting places in the world, look no further than Elon Omar's hometown in Somalia, where the IQ is on par of mental retardation for the most part.
00:43:19.000And honestly, I would like an answer on if Elon Omar has married her brother for citizenship.
00:43:24.000I think we would like an answer on that.
00:43:26.000I think Blake made a statement earlier, like a month ago, where he said, you know what?
00:43:31.000Elon Omar could sue me because I want to find out during the case if that is true.
00:43:35.000Because we all know it is really true.
00:43:38.000But there is no standard for moral, there is no morality in Somalia.
00:43:43.000There is no morality for these members of Congress.
00:45:24.000I mean, like, in a very real sense, in a very real sense, right?
00:45:30.000These members of Congress, senators and members of, I guess, House of Representatives, they were encouraging the military to refuse orders from their lawful civil authority, the President of the United States, the commander-in-chief.
00:45:44.000Now, they said illegal orders, but like who's to determine what illegal you guys think?
00:45:56.000Yeah, these are the same people who say that Donald Trump is an illegal president.
00:45:59.000They say they don't respect anything to do with his administration.
00:46:02.000These are the same people who just 1.7 million liberals just voted for a guy who said that who campaigned that conservative children should be killed.
00:46:13.000So excuse me if I don't believe the Democrats.
00:46:16.000And they tried, by the way, they tried to coup President Trump in his first term with lies from the national security state, the military, like Alexander Vinman, and the intelligence community.
00:46:26.000They literally did this in the first administration.
00:46:30.000There's no question that when they are talking about things like this, that's what they're doing.
00:46:35.000They're trying to solicit for more whistleblowers, quote unquote, these like fake whistleblowers to come forward with dirt on Trump so they can get another impeachment going because they think they're going to win the midterms.
00:46:46.000And if they do so, they want to have an impeachment already brewing when they get in power.
00:48:22.000Alejandro Mayorkas took a calculated step to just blow out America's border and let unlimited numbers of foreigners, including, we know, we just know for an ironclad fact, foreign gangsters, foreign spies, foreign who knows who, terrorists, if we will, possible terrorist sympathizers, just let everyone into the United States.
00:48:41.000Total, deliberate, calculated meltdown at the border, not based on any legal reasoning whatsoever.
00:48:48.000And he just let every single person in.
00:48:50.000Alejandro Mayorkas is a traitor to the United States.
00:48:53.000Alejandro Mayorkas, he could not have done more damage to the United States in his handling of the border than just if you literally put a Chinese asset in charge of that job.
00:50:30.000And we are talking about political violence.
00:50:33.000And and look, you know Charlie isn't here uh, co-hosting this show because of political violence, like we did every single thursday and tried so hard to, you know, work with his schedule and he always made time to be on thought crime and we can't do that.
00:50:50.000And you guys who are there in studio are sitting next to an empty chair because of political violence.
00:50:57.000You know, we don't know the consequences, because we literally know the consequences.
00:51:01.000Today's Erica's birthday and she's celebrating that without Charlie because of political violence.
00:51:06.000And so if you want to talk about people who deserve to be executed, it's anyone who was involved with this plot and especially the person who pulled the trigger on Charlie, because that is an express act of violence, not just against Charlie, not just against his family, but against our entire country and our entire political system.
00:51:25.000That's what you should execute people for.
00:51:44.000Yeah, I think that'd be really powerful and, for those of you who don't know, there was leaked discord chats.
00:51:48.000Chat Jack's been doing a great job like.
00:51:51.000Highlighting them adds a lot of context and new details and layers of evidence.
00:51:58.000I think that that help make sense of the psychology of what was going on in that household much, much of which is well corroborated too, by the way well corroborated and and it seems to be authentic.
00:52:10.000So I think we should go into that uh, next year.
00:52:12.000I'm just calling, calling this, calling it right now.
00:52:14.000So uh, let's go on to the next topic here jack, because you have, you have topics you want to get to and they were put at the end of the list here professor, only fans.
00:52:26.000That was a rumble rant, that was about me, it was about the first topic, so we didn't want to derail by going backwards.
00:52:32.000But uh, Dj Gowitz said, part of me wonders if Bondi would have deliberately humiliated influencers like our friend Jack to gain favor with FOX hoping to get a show when she is done as a g.
00:52:44.000I know Fox can't be thrilled about new media.
00:52:48.000We've got a new theory to add to the pile there, so I guess Jack would be the one to decide if that sounds plausible.
00:52:55.000Um no no, I don't think so because, you know this, this was set up as a way for you know, the administration to build relationships with new media.
00:53:08.000Like the whole point of it was to try to strengthen those relationships and understand that hey, you know the audience, you know America, the American citizen isn't just watching cable news anymore, isn't just watching legacy media anymore.
00:53:21.000So the entire point of the exercise was to, you know, build a stronger relationship with new media.
00:55:10.000He wrote this book, and I kind of thought, Charlie, you know, it turned out to be his instincts for it were spot on.
00:55:17.000And I mean, it's just, I just find, Blake, I was telling you this at lunch today.
00:55:22.000The lack of class in our culture, the lack of standards.
00:55:27.000Like, can you imagine, okay, take your mind back to a classroom at like Columbia University at the turn of the last century.
00:55:34.000And, you know, I'm just thinking, you know, the standards.
00:55:37.000They wanted you to understand Latin, history, and classics, and you wore a suit to class, and everybody was like, and there were no women allowed.
00:55:53.000So the point is, it's just like, it bothers me that we have so debased ourselves that we are now at a situation where only fan online hookers are welcomed in to teach a psychology class.
00:56:14.000Yeah, people don't have standards anymore, especially at universities.
00:56:18.000But look, if you're not ashamed that your student, that your kids who are at university are taking a lecture course from a prostitute who's bragging about pooping in a box to make extra income.
00:56:36.000Charlie warned about this, but he also warned about this when there was just like basic, basic courses being taught that were kind of meaningless and stupid.
00:56:45.000This is a representation of how universities are, what the direction they're headed in.
00:56:51.000Like, you literally have a prostitute bragging about pooping in a box for 10 grand and trying to understand the psychology of her subscribers.
00:57:00.000I guess this is the pantomime for having a charlie crit show that you how much would you have to be paid to poop in a box?
00:58:57.000And you could actually do more damage by going to a modern psychologist to your relationships.
00:59:02.000Like, I've heard lots of stories of people going to psychologists and basically blowing up their marriages, blowing up their friendships with their, with their, or their relationships with their family members.
00:59:11.000And so it becomes this really self-indulgent prescription.
00:59:16.000But you've got to remember too, psychologists are incentivized to keep your butt in the chair.
00:59:21.000They have an incentive to keep your butt in the chair.
00:59:23.000They have an incentive in many cases to tell you something you more or less want to hear, which can be really bad for a lot of relationship stuff.
00:59:30.000If you basically have people who are in a relationship that maybe is somewhat having friction in it, and you go to a psychologist who's going to have some incentive to nudge you towards blowing that up rather than salvaging that.
00:59:44.000An interesting trend I saw related to that, so we always have to bully Reddit when we can.
00:59:49.000So Reddit has a relationships sub forum.
00:59:53.000And someone went and analyzed it by the numbers over the past 15 years, the advice they would give, because it's a thing where you'd go and you'd post about your relationship models.
01:00:05.000We're having this problem, whether it's affairs or just disagreements or in-law trouble, all these things.
01:00:10.000And statistically, over time, it's gotten a lot more likely that the most popular response in a thread is leave that person, go no contact, blow up the relationship.
01:00:20.000And ideas like compromise or it's actually not a big deal.
01:00:32.000I guess we've gotten pretty far away from OnlyFans models, but I feel the root thing there is the therapization of Americans has included with it this idea that like it's okay to live your own truth or frankly, it's okay to be a professional whore and you should not feel bad about that.
01:00:54.000Basically, your whole point was that, yeah, psychology started out pretty great because a bunch of like old dudes that were like really seeking the truth founded it, right?
01:01:03.000I mean, essentially, that's probably what that means.
01:01:07.000And then it turns into a very hyper-feminized, emotionally indulgent, psychoanalytic exercise where nothing's based on any eternal truths.
01:01:18.000If you can find a good psychologist that's a good Christian, that's one thing.
01:01:26.000I was going to say, someone has to say it that, you know, right, this is basically just you're taking the sacrament of confession, but you're doing so without the repentance and the penance.
01:01:39.000So it's like, hey, I'm, and the priest, obviously.
01:01:43.000So it's like, hey, here are all these things I've done wrong.
01:01:46.000And the priest is like, okay, do you repent?
01:02:03.000But if you do that and just say, hey, these are all the things that are going wrong in my life without any, think about it, though, without any actual admitting that you've done something wrong, without any repentance and without any act of penance, then it's kind of like it's actually a way to amplify all of those bad behaviors.
01:02:24.000By the way, I think a lot of people will get way more out of, like, I remember I had this conversation in England one time, and the guy was like, He's like, Yeah, we're just a couple blokes.
01:02:36.000We'll just work it out with our boys at the pub over a couple pints.
01:02:41.000And there is something to be said for that.
01:02:43.000Like, you're talking about confess your sins one to another that you may be healed, but it's like which is way better, by the way.
01:02:50.000But there is a psychologist, you end up not being able to be honest with some of your friends, and you end up paying somebody $200 an hour to tell you you've done nothing wrong oftentimes.
01:03:01.000Because, again, to your point, they're incentivized to build a relationship with you, build your trust, and not necessarily give you the hard truths that a priest would or but a real good friend would.
01:03:11.000I think it's mind-blowing that, like, basically, I can't remember what the statistic was.
01:03:15.000It was like something like one out of every thousand women in America is on OnlyFans.
01:03:46.000And, but then you have to slice out, okay, women who are over, I don't know, let's pick an age, 60 are pretty unlikely to probably be OnlyFans models.
01:03:55.000And, you know, anyone under the age, well, anyone who's a minor, also, any girls who are minors can't be on it.
01:04:01.000And so when you think of the like prime age range of someone who would become an internet hooker, like 18 to 30, probably like one in 100.
01:04:10.000Well, more, if it's over a million girls and you're just looking at like 18 to 30, we might be talking three, four, five percent of them.
01:05:14.000Like Angela's pointing out in the chat, like, first of all, numbers who make a ton of money, there's a few who make a ton of money, big winners, and then most will make essentially no money, but they still were whores on the internet, which is bad.
01:05:28.000And that causes permanent damage that no amount of money would offset, but they don't even get the money.
01:05:34.000Although I also just think there's going to be a lot of weird stuff out there.
01:05:37.000You're going to have a lot of drama where people a lot of them do use pseudonyms when they're on it.
01:06:17.000We'll have to talk about this at some other point.
01:06:20.000But Tucker had a psychiatrist on his show yesterday, and they were mostly talking about marijuana, but he was also talking about how the epigenetics of things that you put into your body, how they can affect your children.
01:06:34.000And specifically on the question of women, he was talking about how, you know, women don't think about this, but things that they do, which it reminds me of what we're talking about, things that they take, imbibe, affect the eggs, which are within their body, which then affect their children directly.
01:06:51.000So it's this whole idea of like, oh, well, you know, who cares?
01:06:55.000It's like, no, you're directly affecting your children because the way female genetics work, female fertility, is that all of the eggs they have are within them when they're born and can even affect their grandchildren.
01:07:06.000And that you can see these effects generationally.
01:07:09.000So it's like, even beyond the moral side of it, you're also even potentially focused.
01:07:15.000You're affecting the genetic side of your offspring and even your grandchildren.
01:08:08.000And she was saying that OnlyFans takes like 20% of the money, and then you have to have basically like a pimp, but they're your manager, but she said they're basically your pimp and you have to be making content certain hours of the day.
01:08:23.000You have to be wearing certain outfits.
01:08:25.000You're basically managed your entire life.
01:08:28.000And they take like 60 to 70% of all of your income just to manage you and film the content, post the content for you and do everything.
01:08:37.000So you're really only making like 20% of what you're making at the expense of your humiliation.
01:08:44.000But then I loved what Jack said, where this is like modern day confession, where these prostitutes know that what they're doing is wrong, but instead of going to confession or instead of going to a place where you can confess your sins to a pastor or a priest, you're going to a college campus to say your most disgusting, shameful stories that is objectively disgusting.
01:09:06.000Pooping in a box is objectively disgusting, to which the entire audience and student body says, you know, they say, they affirm you.
01:09:17.000And this is also a failure on the part of parents.
01:09:21.000Like if fathers were actually present and moms weren't scrolling on social media all day and they actually did their job, this would be different.
01:09:29.000I went to high school with a girl whose mom was a porn star when she was young and she had to live with that humiliation in high school of people making fun of her.
01:09:37.000I can only imagine what it's going to be like in the future for these young creators when they eventually have kids.
01:09:43.000But then again, I think to myself, if we're making this normal and not shaming this, then maybe people won't be bullied or anything like that in high school when they're older.
01:09:58.000I like the idea of drone striking, though.
01:09:59.000That would just be very not all of them, but like the headquarters.
01:10:02.000The people, just the server and the headquarters.
01:10:05.000Did you guys ever hear of the time that Blake, have you ever publicly told the story about the time that you accidentally appeared in an adult film?
01:12:01.000Well, I think one of the earliest topics we talked about on Thought Crime was the AI boyfriends possibility.
01:12:07.000And it seemed very remote at that time.
01:12:10.000But unfortunately, the AIs are getting more and more advanced, and more and more people are just deciding that their perfect boyfriend is the robot in their phone.
01:12:18.000Wait, do we have the clip that I sent over of the woman getting married?
01:12:32.000Mankeeping is why more and more women are done with dating.
01:12:37.000And it shows this very forlorn woman just looking off into the distance, just depressed at her selection of men.
01:12:46.000And by the way, I just want to say, one of my memories for SAS with Charlie is we went into the room with all these young people and we were like, hey, do you like, Mike, you were there.
01:12:58.000And Charlie was like, do you like your selection of men?
01:13:06.000So like, it's a real problem because there seems to be a generationally more and more so a disconnect between the men and the women and they don't seem to like each other nearly as much as they should.
01:14:10.000There was this kid that committed suicide.
01:14:14.000And his parents went into his phone after to try to figure out what was going on.
01:14:20.000And they looked at Snapchat messages, they looked at group chats, and they couldn't figure out what why he did this.
01:14:26.000But then they opened his chat GPT and they found that he was, they basically called it like his suicide coach.
01:14:33.000That chat GPT was telling him how to do it, affirming him in his action of depression, like making it worse.
01:14:39.000And the family actually said, if it were not for ChatGPT, our son would still be alive.
01:14:44.000And now you have women that are basically dating AI.
01:14:48.000You have a Japanese woman who's marrying her AI partner.
01:14:51.000And then even on platforms that young people use, like Snapchat, pinned at the very top is an AI friend that you can talk to and remembers everything.
01:15:08.000Like, right now, in the Christian music industry, one of the top, I think it's the third most popular song in the country right now is AI.
01:15:17.000Like, it's an AI song, and it's the third most popular Christian song out there.
01:15:22.000I'm really, this might be controversial, but that those parents who sued, I think I would be against that lawsuit because I don't like the general vacation of actual human agency we still possess.
01:15:35.000Where, okay, you're going to sue them and say that chat GPT caused your child to kill themselves.
01:15:41.000It's like if people sue a gun company, like it is ultimately a tool that a person chose to use.
01:15:49.000You want to fight back against the idea that you can just say, like, oh, I seeded my entire thought process to this tool, to this chat GPT.
01:16:44.00072% of teens in the U.S. report having used AI companions at least once.
01:16:51.000Over half, 52 of these teens are regular users interacting with AI companions at least a few times a month.
01:16:58.000About one-third of teens use AI for social interaction relationships, and some find these conversations as satisfying as or more satisfying than talking with real friends.
01:17:10.000Like we think of, you think of how people have gotten frightened by we've seen those parents who just outsource parenting to a tablet computer where their kid just zombies in front of YouTube all day.
01:17:22.000Now we're basically gonna be, I guess we are at the point where you can outsource their like social interactions.
01:17:29.000Oh, just talk to the robot in your computer about whatever.
01:18:16.000What I really worry we're doing is we're taking maybe the, if you take the bottom 20% of people in terms of how easily they're like vulnerable to being influenced by these sorts of things.
01:18:27.000And we're really accelerate, or people frankly, who are a little bit schizoid, a little bit suggestible, the people who already thought they were hearing messages when they listened to the radio.
01:18:36.000And you take them and you're just bombarding them with a super stimulus.
01:18:40.000And it's going to totally fry their brains in a really destructive way.
01:18:45.000And it might be that most people are able to resist this or a large share of them, but there's just going to be a chunk of the population that is going to lose their minds.
01:18:57.000And we know there's a chunk of people who are losing their minds in other ways, people who become hoarders, people who become shut-ins, people who are permanent needs and can't work any job.
01:19:06.000And now we're throwing into that mix people who can replace all social interaction with talking to a robot that's just going to be a total pushover and agree with them on everything and say they're right about everything and do whatever, remove all the difficulty from real interaction with real people.
01:19:25.000I was interviewing Shane Cashman on my show and he gets into this stuff a lot.
01:19:29.000And he was talking about how if you are someone who has like schizophrenia or suicidal ideations or something like that, because in the same way that you were just talking about how ChatGPT, it sort of just mirrors your behavior.
01:19:43.000And it's kind of similar to what goes on with these therapists that we're talking about, where they're just like enabling you.
01:19:48.000So if you're like a normal person, you go to ChatGPT and you're, you know, or just any LLM and you're saying like, okay, hey, what's lyrics to this song?
01:19:56.000Or like, what, you know, how do I fix this thing on my car or whatever?
01:20:01.000But if you're going to it and you're already from a psychotic or a diseased mind or a crazed mind, then it's programmed to mirror the user to increase engagement.
01:20:12.000Then it's going to mirror that psychosis or it's going to mirror and enable the things that you want.
01:20:18.000Because again, it's programmed to increase your engagement and to increase your interactivity with the user.
01:20:24.000So it doesn't realize that the things it's doing are telling you, you know, to cause harm to yourself.
01:20:31.000It's only programming is to increase user engagement.
01:20:34.000So that's what it's going to keep doing.
01:20:36.000And it's incumbent on the person for what they're going from.
01:20:39.000So if you present to it, you know, present to it that you're just there for like some cooking recipe or whatever, it's going to be fine.
01:20:45.000But if you come to it and you're already in like a broken place, it's going to break you further.
01:20:50.000I found a post, or actually I found someone just posted this.
01:22:17.000And I love Elon, but the most likely outcome is that AI and robots make everyone wealthy.
01:22:22.000In fact, far wealthier than the richest person on earth.
01:22:25.000By this, I mean that people will have access to everything from medical care that is superhuman to games that are far more fun than what exists today.
01:22:33.000We do need to make sure that if AI that AI cares deeply about truth and beauty for this to be the problem.
01:22:38.000I liked the Elon tweet where he said that thanks to AI and robots, work will be optional in the future.
01:22:43.000And all I could think is, I think there's a lot of people in America who would tell you it's optional now.
01:23:08.000I mean, it'll be like playing sports or a video game or something like that.
01:23:12.000If you want to work, you know, in the same way, like you can go to the store and just buy some vegetables, or you could grow vegetables in your backyard.
01:23:23.000It's much harder to grow vegetables in your backyard, but some people still do it because they like growing vegetables.
01:23:32.000And if you go out long enough, assuming there's a continued improvement in AI and robotics, which seems likely, the money will stop being relevant at some point in the future.
01:23:45.000You know, we have a message here in the chat that I want to flag from Kyrie, who says people are talking to AI instead of to God, or they think they are talking to God, frankly.
01:23:56.000And really, I actually want to say this genuinely.
01:23:59.000One of the most disconcerting things, and it's been pitched to me separately by three or four different people who have asked, could we make an AI recreation of Charlie?
01:24:12.000And I want to bring that up because it's very disturbing.
01:24:16.000I actually want to say, if you are having that impulse, you should really strongly reconsider what's going into how you think about AI.
01:24:24.000Because, yeah, as Christians, among other things, we believe Charlie is still with us.
01:26:10.000somebody creates an AI Charlie, I'm pretty sure you're gonna get a lawsuit because it's creepy and weird.
01:26:15.000And what we're gonna do is we're gonna build a whole database of all the things Charlie said, actually, all the speeches, all the things.
01:26:24.000And you can search it with the help of AI to get, you know, different options and they'll be, they'll match your search query, but no AI, Charlie.
01:26:37.000I would throw out, you know, like, you know, how so there's that, there's that book that Charlie was going to, um, we were working on about how he, how he takes, um, how he takes off on Saturdays.
01:27:05.000If it's actually Charlie's words, maybe I'm crazy if you guys think differently, but if it's actually his words and you're using like his audio to recreate it, I don't know.
01:27:17.000I feel like that's different than like creating a full on it's definitely different.
01:29:29.000And I was thinking about this with, you know, when you mentioned Charlie, like they're going to be people who recreate like dead family members.
01:29:40.000Like, if your child passes away, and I get it, right?
01:29:45.000Like, I, you know, as a dad and, you know, a bunch of us are dads, most of us are dads, that, you know, I don't know how you'd live.
01:29:53.000Like, I just don't know how I could live with going through the laws of a child.
01:29:58.000And I could totally understand like wanting to recreate, you know, some sort of AI version of one of my kids just so you could like talk to them one more time.
01:30:10.000And at the same time, though, I could totally see that driving you completely insane.
01:30:15.000And I guarantee if that hasn't happened already, I guarantee that's going to start.
01:31:25.000Yeah, there's just these like God-given feelings that you have where God made it so that people die eventually.
01:31:33.000And I feel like with AI, we're going to get to a place where you're going to try to have a brain chip where you don't feel pain anymore, where pain is like a God-given thing to protect you, to give you feeling.
01:31:48.000This is completely re-altering like the creator structure for our life.
01:31:52.000But also, you guys talk about demons taking over stuff.
01:31:56.000This is the topic with the AI song that's trending in like the top two or three in the charts for Christian music right now on iTunes and Spotify is people are saying, can the Holy Spirit be in an AI song?
01:32:09.000Because it's not written by a human and the Holy Spirit moves through humans.
01:32:43.000What's especially upsetting is in contrast to a lot of things where you can roll your eyes a little bit, like, you know, it's like, oh, this new trend is sweeping the world.
01:32:51.000And you'll think, okay, that's like bad, but I can't imagine it.
01:32:54.000I know deep in my bones, this is going to be insanely popular.
01:32:57.000People will want to do this sort of thing.
01:33:03.000Somebody lost a child and you had all these videos on your phone and you put them into like a little online form and then poof, it spits out like an AI version of your kid.
01:33:12.000Like you would do that to comfort yourself if you lost your child.
01:35:09.000If you didn't know Charlie in real life, right?
01:35:11.000Like most people probably only knew Charlie through a cell phone screen, right?
01:35:16.000Or, you know, some other form of media, you, you have this sort of like parasocial relationship with the influencer that was known as Charlie Kirk.
01:35:26.000So, which, but that's kind of like, that's kind of like looking at a footprint and thinking that a footprint is the actual person.
01:35:32.000But if that's all you ever knew was the imprint of Charlie that he left on social media, and of course, is all continues to be all over social media, then in your mind, you might think, well, it's not that different.
01:35:43.000I just want to hear that voice and that mind talking about whatever the latest news is, whatever the latest turn of events is, whatever the latest twist of fate is.
01:35:52.000And I just want more Charlie content directly.
01:35:56.000And it seems like this is a tool to be able to do that, then that's totally different.
01:36:02.000The way you come to that is totally different than if you knew Charlie and were like friends with Charlie, because you're thinking, well, it's like an online character almost.
01:36:13.000Yeah, it's definitely a different need.
01:36:15.000Like for me, it's again, it's like when you look, this is why I don't think it would work.
01:36:21.000And I think it'd be super weird, like what that company was putting forth.
01:36:25.000Is a really good friend or someone that you talk to so frequently.
01:36:30.000I miss Charlie because of the ideas that we would talk about and the, you know, what we would create and the things that like the really tough conversations about like what needs to happen next.
01:36:43.000Like you can't replace that with AI ever.
01:36:46.000But that's the point of like your closest family members, your spouse, your whoever, your kids.
01:36:52.000Like AI would never be able to generate new memories.
01:36:56.000It just, you know, basically brings up old memories or their ideas about things happening to you.
01:37:02.000And that's totally different from the human experience that God intends you to have, which is your interaction with people is supposed to be all sorts of things.
01:37:31.000I don't know if it was Sam Altman who said this or if it was Elon, but it was basically like your search queries are searchable.
01:37:37.000Like they're not protected, meaning like the FBI could get into them.
01:37:40.000Yeah, we've gotten, that's how they've charged people.
01:37:42.000You know, you search how to make a bomb.
01:37:44.000So, but like, imagine how much material like the NSA is going to have on people when they're sharing this, these deep, intimate moments with a robot or with an AI.
01:39:58.000So I don't know if that's what Sidney Sweeney is saying here, but yeah, the butterfly has always been a negative take.
01:40:06.000But no, so I wanted to hit this on Sidney Sweeney because I think the right is lulling themselves into a false sense of a false sense of calm with her and thinking that like, oh, she's, you know, she's like our girl.
01:41:44.000And then the housemaid basically becomes this character that quote-unquote traumatized women get to hire in order to murder your narcissist husband and get away with it.
01:41:58.000And then she becomes the hero of the series.
01:42:00.000And each episode, each book, is then another way that she's going to come in and get hired to murder someone's husband for them.
01:44:45.000And then Nina, the wife, had hired her because she's hoping because Millie is this woman who will step up and rescue and kill men who are abusive.
01:44:54.000She's hoping Millie will do what she's too much of a coward to do.
01:44:57.000So what Millie does is literally, this is the description.
01:45:00.000Millie incapacitates Andrew with pepper spray and locks him in a room.
01:45:05.000She then forces him to perform the same punishment.
01:45:27.000Eventually the police decide that it was an accident.
01:45:30.000And then the wife and the Sidney Sweeney character team up to they form a group to actually a different trick.
01:45:37.000Anyway, the Sidney Sweeney character starts a group to help women get out of abusive relationships by murdering their husbands.
01:45:44.000I'm not, so this is sold, so that's basically what I said.
01:45:49.000This has sold 2 million copies, just the very first book, across Amazon, Barnes and Noble, books a million, print, e-book, and audiobook formats.
01:45:58.000It is all over TikTok, bestseller status, New York Times, USA Today.
01:46:02.000This is the number one book for women in America today.
01:46:21.000Every home is a cage that you are, you know, if you are not in complete control of, then you are inherently in a cage.
01:46:28.000Marriage itself, of course, is a cage.
01:46:30.000Women are always the perpetual victims.
01:46:32.000And also, by the way, Blake, to what you were just saying, it doesn't matter how extreme your behavior is as long as you're a woman, because if a woman does it, it's justified.
01:46:45.000We just need a general conversation on women's fiction.
01:47:37.000My guess is, frankly, I'll be honest, hockey is probably one of the last sports that's like implicitly mostly white people.
01:47:44.000And so it's where you plausibly have, you know, where you have a tall guy, where you have a tall guy who's like, can be blonde and blue-eyed, which is what a lot of women like.
01:48:42.000I was in the airport, and there was a different romance series, and it was a whole hockey romance series about the Jacksonville Rays, a fake NHL team.
01:48:51.000And it's getting more and more extreme because book one, that one we saw there is at least, as far as I know, a normal romance, just boy girl.
01:49:06.000So book one of this Jacksonville Rays series, first of all, all the titles are just actually, this is probably another reason they like hockey.
01:49:12.000They're just bad, dirty puns, like, you know, like down to puck and pucking strong and stuff like that.
01:49:19.000Anyway, book one was a woman has love quadrangle with four with three guys on the hockey team.
01:49:26.000And the happy resolution is polyamory.
01:49:29.000She can just be with all three of the guys.
01:53:55.000Listen, Jack, you have an event tonight.
01:53:57.000If you want to preface it, and then we'll take us on.
01:54:01.000Much of it's live streamed or like that comes out the next day or how that works, but I'm an event tonight here actually backstage at what is this place called?
01:54:10.000The Diamond Heart Arena in Bakersfield, California.
01:54:16.000It is Megan Kelly, myself, Victor Davis Hansen, Steve Hilton, and believe it or not, Charlie Sheen.
01:54:45.000And I'm really looking forward, of course, to Erica when she goes and speaks to Megan Kelly, I think, in two nights' time on Saturday night there in Phoenix.