Courtroom cameras have been allowed into the courtroom for the first time in court for the trial of Tyler Robinson, who is on trial for the murder of Charlie and the attempted murder of his best friend. The judge ruled that no cameras should be allowed in the courtroom, but did allow for pre-brief video footage of the trial.
00:00:56.000The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
00:01:29.000So the judge is currently ruling on information regarding and motions regarding whether or not cameras will be allowed in the courtroom for Tyler Robinson, who is the accused murderer of Charlie, our friend.
00:01:46.000And I've been seeing a lot of information that Judge Graff made a ruling regarding Charlie's, regarding cameras in the courtroom.
00:01:54.000However, people need to understand that the ruling that just came down, and I see this going viral online even as we speak, that was only about cameras in the courtroom today as pertains to this specific hearing and possibly pre-brief hearings in general.
00:02:11.000There's also mention, and I've got this from a reporter that Graff wrote, just keeping stated, that we've set aside the 30th of January, and that might be the one want to say to argue our anticipated motion that's coming about keeping Courtney's out of court.
00:02:30.000Cameras in the courtroom, I want to weigh in as well.
00:02:48.000It went out in a few places that they'd already ruled, but that's not surprising.
00:02:52.000Kind of everything about this case seems to take forever, which we complained about on the show today.
00:02:56.000And I promptly got an email from another person who works in other murder trials.
00:03:00.000And she said, it's just always like this.
00:03:03.000She said she's seen absolute open and shut gangbanger shooting cases take two years to resolve.
00:03:10.000And so that sadly might be like this even for something as basic as getting cameras into the courtroom, which we're all hoping for, I think.
00:03:18.000Besides that, I guess the main thing we've gotten out of this, because people need something to feast on, is we do have really our first in a courtroom video footage of Tyler Robinson.
00:03:32.000We have people analyzing his facial expressions because there's not too much to analyze otherwise at this point, whether his, whether the look on his face and profile, which we're showing right now, is he smiling?
00:04:28.000I would say, though, if you have, does anyone have that picture of Charlie, or excuse me, Charlie, of Tyler Robinson, this, you know, where it's kind of zoomed in?
00:04:41.000And Blake, I'll, you know, to your point, I'll send it in the chat.
00:04:45.000I didn't necessarily see him laughing in this video, but there's one spot where that, I mean, that's just definitely a smile.
00:04:53.000And, you know, there are times where Brian Etton out of News Nation, who does a lot of this reporting, he said that, you know, sometimes it can be a tactic by defense teams to say, try to look more human, try to smile, try to humanize yourself with the jury or any potential jurors who might be watching.
00:05:43.000It was really hard for me to watch and see this guy yucking it up with his lawyers there at the table and grinning and certainly not looking remorseful, certainly not looking as though he's sad that we're in the proceedings for the death of a good man, the death of a father, the death of a husband.
00:06:03.000He's just, you know, very nonchalant and having a good time, hanging out like he doesn't have a care in the world.
00:06:10.000And, you know, I don't know the strategy or what, but I got very upset watching this earlier today.
00:06:18.000And I, yeah, I can't even really say publicly what I want to say.
00:06:56.000But it really just made this thing real again.
00:07:00.000And I think it was a moment, you know, to see him not just as, you know, hey, this prisoner who we saw briefly in the, you know, the prison garb, but now to be in a dress shirt and the tie, to have people surrounding him defending him.
00:07:15.000You know, it's the justice system and it's going to play its way out, but it was tough to watch.
00:07:19.000And let me just say this to everybody out there.
00:07:25.000There's going to be so much that they have to prove that he is a person, that he was there, that there is a campus, the campus exists in Utah.
00:07:33.000There are so many, I want to call them preliminary things, but things that for most normal folks, if you've never been into a criminal trial, if you've never seen one, there are so many mundane things that the prosecutors are going to have to prove that are real things.
00:07:47.000And to us, it's so obvious, but in the court of law, you have to prove those things.
00:07:52.000And so I do think we should be prepared for this to be a long, drawn-out battle.
00:07:55.000But as Erica said, why not be transparent?
00:07:59.000So that is the win that we're looking for.
00:08:00.000We're hoping that this is all going to be on camera, not to glamorize him, but let the people see what this monster did.
00:08:07.000And let's have an open trial so that there's full transparency.
00:08:14.000Yeah, I really think it's one of those things where there's a lot of, I think a lot of the issues we've encountered with what people say about this, it comes from. the psychic overload that there people have such strong feelings about Charlie and about what happened to him.
00:08:32.000And instead of having an unfolding trial with facts, instead of having all the truly, actually quite lurid information about Tyler Robinson and his private life, I think that could be satiating a lot of them.
00:08:46.000But it's taking a long time because these court proceedings take so long.
00:08:51.000And so they're getting diverted into other things.
00:08:54.000I think it's a big argument in favor of we should, as a country, spend more on our justice system, have more prosecutors, more judges, whatever it takes to have faster hearings, faster trials, faster turnaround on this sort of thing, because this is a modern development.
00:09:11.000You used to be able to do serious trials with serious evidence and serious proceedings within the last hundred years without nearly as much delay for this sort of thing.
00:09:23.000There have been attempted assassins of presidents who are tried, convicted, in a fair trial, and in their cases, executed within a two, three month time window.
00:09:35.000You don't necessarily need this to be that fast, but it feels very disappointing to me that anyone in a high-profile murder case is taking half a year before you're even getting to jury selection.
00:09:47.000Yeah, and it's going to continue to drag out.
00:10:14.000Sometimes it's for the prosecutors, you know, to kind of get the jury mad at the other side or to be frustrated.
00:10:20.000But I think, you know, the other thing is selecting a jury in this case, you know, to have a jury that's not tampered or people that haven't seen this.
00:10:31.000I think it's hard to find someone, especially now with the news coverage that doesn't know who Charlie Kirk is.
00:10:38.000And so you're going to have a heck of a jury selection to try to figure out, you know, and some of these rulings are going to be crucial on who the judge lets in, who the judge says, you know, has some sort of bias.
00:10:48.000And I think that's going to be a key part, you know, to what the prosecution has to do is to making sure that this isn't some issue that goes to a mistrial later because one of the jurors says that, oh, they weren't familiar with it or they don't know who Charlie is or they haven't seen any of these reports.
00:12:28.000So one thing that I'm getting from a friend of mine who was watching this and does some work in the true crime, you know, kind of like apologies files to watch.
00:12:39.000So it says that Erica was officially made the victim in this.
00:12:46.000And something that a lot of people have pointed out that could come up in terms of some of the firestorm, the media that's already going on, is the Utah witness intimidation law.
00:13:02.000So this is some, and by the way, this is something that comes up in a number of these cases when people have become, have followed them so closely, but then become so, shall I say, so targeted at witnesses and victims.
00:13:20.000Under Utah law, a person committing witness tampering or intimidation, if they attempt to improperly influence the testimony of someone they know that might testify, attempt to prevent someone from testifying, threaten, harass, or retaliate against someone because of their role, engage in conduct intending to make a witness fearful, silent, or less cooperative with the justice process.
00:13:42.000Utah specifically criminalizes threats, harassment, public accusations intended to discredit, public pressure campaigns that could chill testimony, retaliatory conduct towards victims or victim advocates or designated representatives, public statements, even online, can use the definition if the intent is to affect testimony or cooperation.
00:14:04.000And so this is something that has come up in a number of these cases where you have this huge community that gets involved, but people have to remember that they are active cases.
00:14:16.000And in fact, there are laws on the books that govern anyone who can get involved in anyone that is getting involved in these cases.
00:14:31.000And these laws have been on the books for a long time.
00:14:33.000Blake, walk us through why we have laws like this.
00:14:36.000I mean, we have laws like this because those are the things that people do to escape culpability for crimes.
00:14:45.000And also, frankly, a part of it is also they're a way, like our glorious Supreme Court has made it difficult to execute people, unfortunately.
00:14:56.000And so one of the ways they've gone about it is they've said you have to have some aggravating factors before we will allow a heinous perpetrator, traitor to face appropriate punishment for their crimes.
00:15:10.000And so you definitely see facets of that throughout the indictment of Tyler Robinson, where they threw in that charge for doing something in the presence of a minor.
00:15:22.000And I think the witness intimidation stuff comes into that because when you're doing stuff against witnesses, that's another thing that's considered a valid aggravating factor in cases.
00:15:35.000They're clearly, they structured the indictment in a way to make sure a court couldn't swoop in later and say there were no aggravating factors, so you can't try to bring the death penalty in this case.
00:15:47.000I just want to clear up something, guys, because I have this.
00:15:49.000So the official term is, and Maya Culpa, if I use the wrong term, she is recognized as the designated victim representative.
00:16:00.000So she'd be officially recognized as a designated victim representative.
00:16:04.000And so that means she has a right to attend the trial.
00:16:08.000But as such, a lot of these witness intimidation laws could potentially, if the judge decides to, cover the designated victim representative as well, which means they cover Erica.
00:16:19.000And I mean, Blake, to your point, there's a basic reason we don't want people intimidating victims in the trial because we want actual justice.
00:16:27.000Well, for the same reason, we want actual justice.
00:16:30.000So that's why these laws on witness intimidation also cover victim representative intimidation as well.
00:16:37.000Yeah, and if I'm understanding this correctly, why I think this opens up a can of worms in a good way is because now all of a sudden, you know, look, defamation, all of us know, you know, some of the vile things we've seen and some of these horrific things that people say about us or anybody that's involved with Charlie or New Charlie, you know, the standard for defamation is pretty much impossible in the United States.
00:16:57.000I mean, for public figures, it is pretty much something where to be successful in a defamation case against a public figure, it's just very rare.
00:17:05.000But now, I'm hearing this and I'm thinking to myself, you know, now it makes it, I think, much more doable that if Erica or the state wanted to go after somebody that is literally threatening her in a way or defaming her in a way that could intimidate her as a potential witness or as the victim representative.
00:17:41.000It's ultimately up to prosecutors in this case.
00:17:44.000But yes, it does give her an official standing with the court and in the trial.
00:17:50.000So what it means, and this has come up in other cases where in other parts of the country where people have been harassed, intimidated, and then taking it up with the court.
00:18:01.000And they've gone back and found rulings on their behalf and said, look, you can't interfere with someone who's directly involved with a trial like this, what they view as a form of witness intimidation and actually tampering with a jury trial.
00:18:17.000And by the way, you know, just from a personal perspective, I want everyone to comment on this file.
00:18:23.000If you disagree, if you think if you're one of these people who is, I've been calling them the Robin Simps.
00:18:29.000So the Tyler Robin Simps who actually support Tyler Robinson and they think that he's completely innocent and think that there's no way he could have done it and think this.
00:18:38.000I want the Robin Simps to be out there.
00:18:40.000I'm not calling for them to be arrested or charged or anything like that.
00:18:43.000And I think they have a perfectly fine First Amendment right to be wrong.
00:18:46.000But the Robin Simpson, people asking questions.
00:18:49.000You have perfectly right to ask questions in this country called the First Amendment.
00:18:54.000That said, people should be aware that these laws are on the book.
00:19:05.000There's a bill of rights for victims and it includes the victims and not the freedom to not be publicly harassed, intimidated abuse, protection from accusations, mobilization of followers to harass or attack.
00:19:15.000And so this means that in a sense, and I'm reading this, Erica is now officially tied to the prosecution and the prosecution can take actions to protect her.
00:19:26.000And that's just something that is going to be another feature of this case, I believe, going forward.
00:20:30.000I mean, if you really want to know if it's a capital case, if he gets the death penalty, he could, this could be a 30-year thing.
00:20:37.000You've seen how often they love to drag these things out.
00:20:40.000Even without that, it's a great cause of the left to get people who have life in prison out on parole somehow, especially if it is life without parole.
00:20:51.000We're given that promise all of the time, and it doesn't pan out.
00:21:28.000Like, is this, are these public defenders?
00:21:30.000So it comes from a public pot of money.
00:21:35.000And so he's given a public pot of money that was granted to him.
00:21:39.000This is also under youth, governed by Utah law.
00:21:43.000I could pull up in a second exactly about his legal team, but yes, it does come from a public pot of money.
00:21:49.000And they did give him acc because it's a capital case.
00:21:52.000They are then giving him access to a higher amount of funds they would if than if it were a, you know, if there were just a misdemeanor case, a felony case, a capital murder case, they are giving him access to far more funds because, of course, this is why the state wants this, because they don't want, let's say he's convicted, they don't want him to be able to come back around on an appeal and say, oh, I had ineffective, you know, ineffective counsel or something like that.
00:22:18.000But yes, it is, it's taxpayer funded and we'll say to people.
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00:23:26.000Well, here's something else I want to add, by the way.
00:23:28.000So his parents, we are told reporters who were in the courtroom, including Dan News Nation, that his parents did attend the trial, as well as one of his brothers.
00:23:38.000And sounds like his mother was very emotional.
00:23:41.000It sounded like he was crying while she was waiting for.
00:23:45.000There was a portion of this that was held behind closed doors while they were sort of making the arguments regarding the cameras.
00:23:52.000And Brian Netton mentioned that his mother was all at one point.
00:23:56.000They asked for the family to stay in the courtroom, but then the judge actually asked them to leave the courtroom during the trial phase or during that argument phase.
00:24:05.000And he said the mother was outside the courtroom, out of the courtroom, just crying.
00:24:09.000And look, I keep saying over and over, you know, for people who have been telling me that, oh, Tyler Robinson, the plants, you know, this isn't, this isn't real.
00:24:21.000Well, it's sort of like, guys, his parents were the ones who turned him in.
00:24:27.000And if they thought their son was innocent, that if he was falsely accused, you know, they have all the opportunity in the world to speak to the media.
00:24:34.000The eyes of the world are on them today.
00:24:37.000Not one of them walked up to media and said, my son is innocent.
00:24:42.000We have Godwald famously referred to himself as a Patsy.
00:24:46.000And you just don't see anyone from the family coming out and saying that they believe he didn't do it.
00:26:05.000But I find that to be very, very interesting because a lot of times you'll see judges start to go one direction.
00:26:11.000And if early on they're going the direction of, hey, we're going to, you know, be with the defense, that becomes a problem if you're obviously rooting for the prosecutors.
00:26:19.000And so I think some of these early decisions can kind of show what type of temperament the judge is going to have.
00:26:26.000And for the judge to say that Tyler Robinson's family does not get special treatment, they are not allowed to stay in the courtroom, that all members of the public have to leave.
00:26:35.000And I don't think we should glance over that.
00:26:38.000That was a big ruling from the judge today.
00:26:41.000And so one other piece for people to understand is that, so people are asking, will Erica testify?
00:26:50.000And so likely, I mean, it's certainly possible anyone can call witnesses, but it's more likely that as a victim representative, that she will be giving a statement not during the trial phase, but there's two phases to a death penalty trial.
00:27:06.000I mean, a death penalty trial in most states, including the state of the state of Utah, that the victim doesn't testify until, so there's a conviction.
00:27:16.000Then there's another phase, which is the conviction phase, our first testimony brought in, and that's when you appear with the order public victim impact statement.
00:27:24.000And those victim impact statements are the ones that come in there.
00:27:39.000We have a second one, but it's a lighter topic, so I would like, I don't want to hit it until we're ready to move on to the next one because I don't want to taint this very serious topic with it.
00:28:39.000Namarstan asked, can they have cameras in the courtroom or not?
00:28:42.000They have not ruled on that for a trial.
00:28:44.000He ruled that they could have cameras in the courtroom today for today's hearing, but we do not have a ruling on the overall trial.
00:28:52.000We likely won't have that for many weeks.
00:28:55.000That is the cursed reality we live in.
00:28:58.000all want to see this move more quickly but that is the situation we have right now if both if both of the sides for the hearing the hearing is until february 3rd So we've got two months before we even get a next hearing on that.
00:29:16.000Just, yeah, it's as stressful for us as it is for everyone else, I can assure you.
00:29:23.000Yeah, and Blake, I actually, when you said 30 years, that kind of hit me in the gut, but you're right.
00:29:26.000I mean, this thing could be a very, very long process.
00:29:32.000I once read in the 70s, there was a serial killer in Houston, and several of them, in fact, it was a group operation.
00:29:41.000So one of them died and the other went to prison for life.
00:29:44.000And due to some glorious quirk of the judicial system, that person is eligible for parole.
00:29:50.000And so they literally were a group that abducted children and murdered them.
00:29:55.000And every couple years, the parents of one of their last victims have to go to the court to present their arguments for why the person who murdered their child should not be out on the streets again.
00:30:07.000And this will continue as long as they are alive.
00:30:12.000And I just think about what a tragedy that is for a person who, like, their entire life was a waste.
00:30:19.000They used it to destroy other people's lives.
00:31:19.000The widow of the police officer who is so young, Maureen Faustner, the wife of Danny Faulkner, widow of Danny Faulkner, is begging over and over for justice to be done on this.
00:31:31.000And then eventually 30 years after the murder, because things have become so woke in the city of Philadelphia that in 2011, the prosecution simply agrees to change his sentence to life without parole.
00:31:44.000So he gets life without parole, using GenPOP.
00:31:48.000And this is what they can do there now.
00:31:52.000You have like Rage Against the Machine and all these people coming in for him.
00:31:57.000And so, Blake, to your point, this is a big problem when we wait so long to execute murderers that emotions fade, memories fade, people move on to other things and different narratives can get in.
00:32:13.000In this case, they waited so long that the case was actually taken away.
00:32:22.000Like it, people, I think there is a psychic feeling across America that they think there's a lack of justice for things that have gone wrong.
00:32:30.000You often hear that in reference to COVID, that lockdowns were obviously a catastrophic decision.
00:32:51.000And I do feel that's one of the important arguments in favor of capital punishment.
00:32:56.000There should be a high-profile way, something that goes on semi-regularly if you're in a society with crimes that reminds you people who do grave works of evil will be ripped out of society like the cancers that they are.
00:33:12.000And I don't think it's a surprise that when you have a society afraid to execute the worst malefactors, you have a society that is increasingly detached from any principle of right and wrong whatsoever.
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00:34:41.000And this is where I think a lot of people on the left have kind of lost it, not just with Defund the Police, but it becomes that any law on the books, you know, we need to have sympathy for those because the justice system is flawed.
00:34:53.000Obviously, the justice system can be flawed, but this idea of like soft on crime across the board, it's kind of this vicious, like they're just all in on that.
00:35:03.000And to me, like you said, when you have these things that are very, very much not what I would call nonviolent, these horrific crimes, I think it should be the opposite.
00:35:12.000Like you said, we should make an example of these people.
00:35:15.000And I took, look, I spent a lot of time being against the death penalty, probably 10 years.
00:35:19.000And to be frank with you guys, this was probably the moment where I realized when something hit close to home with somebody that we knew That, you know, it's easy to theorize about that and to say, well, you know, I don't trust the government to kill somebody.
00:35:33.000But in certain circumstances, it is very justified.
00:35:37.000And obviously, I believe this is one of those.
00:35:39.000We have got a question from a gibberish nation asked, can the feds go back and charge Robinson with causing Charlie to lose his federal rights by murder and thereby seek the death penalty if it is not obtained through the state court?
00:35:54.000I suppose the most important question is, is that, do you guys know, is that a capital offense?
00:35:58.000Deprivation of civil rights in that matter?
00:36:42.000I'm sure they would make a show of it, but again, by the time that would be done, you might be in a new presidential administration, might be a Democrat.
00:36:50.000And let's be careful what we wish for.
00:36:52.000Obviously, we want justice for Charlie, but you don't want to get in the habit of the federal government coming in and finding some law or something that they can.
00:36:59.000I mean, what's John Stousle's book, Three Felonies a Day, right?
00:37:05.000If the government wants to come after you, they can.
00:37:07.000So I do want justice here, but let's just get the win here in Utah and not try to find a way that the federal government can come in and try to.
00:37:16.000Yeah, the answer to the question is yes.
00:37:17.000Of course, if the feds wanted to do it, they could try to do it.
00:37:20.000It'd be unprecedented, but they could try to do it.
00:37:23.000I don't think we want to be in the position where the federal government, God willing, it's not JD Vance after 28.
00:37:29.000I don't want them backdating things and coming after us for random acts that they deem as some sort of federal offense.
00:37:36.000No, but you can, I mean, you certainly can add that Jared Chauvin got federal charges added to his state charges.
00:37:42.000So, I mean, this wouldn't be the first time that there were two sets of cases.
00:37:48.000And I'm not saying it's prudent necessarily do so, but certainly just in a basic answer to the question, yes, the federal government can do that and certainly have the right to do that.
00:38:19.000Hoping the Sharon Moore situation might come up this week.
00:38:22.000For those who don't know, the coach of Michigan football got caught, I believe, impregnating an undergraduate, not advised.
00:38:29.000That would be an amazing topic, but we have a more serious topic that is very close to our hearts that does deserve our full attention this week.
00:38:54.000Someone's just a Chad 89 says, Antifa being a terrorist organization could be enough for a federal charge.
00:39:02.000I guess you would have to find, you would have to be able to prove that he even considered himself acting as an agent of Antifa.
00:39:10.000So that would be something where if we have a very thorough look at his Discord messages, any chat groups he was in, you might be able to find that.
00:39:20.000But if he's not, if he never uses Antifa to describe himself, if he's not in contact, that could be tough.
00:39:26.000It's always, there are things that can bring you down.
00:39:29.000So I don't, I guess I would encourage us to view this trial as by far our best shot to get the accountability we want for Robinson.
00:39:39.000And we would only consider alternatives if that's just not going to come to pass.
00:39:43.000And also, as an example, the Maggioni case, depending on where you take this, you know, you got to make sure you have a judge that actually believes in upholding the law.
00:39:51.000So Luigi Maggioni was charged under federal terrorism.
00:39:55.000And the judge in that case, this liberal judge, actually threw it out.
00:39:59.000So he threw out the terrorism charge because he said that, well, this isn't terrorism that when Magioni murdered the healthcare CEO.
00:40:08.000And the judge, as a liberal, said that it wasn't terrorism because it was only murdering one person and that his actions weren't intended to cause harm or intimidation to others, despite the fact that he, just like Tyler Robinson, wrote political slogan on his bullet, had a manifesto, had all the intent in the world to spark what he called justice for, you know, these issues in the healthcare system,
00:40:39.000And yet the judge said, and the judge actually imparted his ruling in that, because in the New York, this is even a state judge, so I have to, I may have to double check myself, but I remember it was a terrorism charge, and that's why I'm talking about it.
00:40:51.000But he said that the way the statute was written was that it affected harm to civilians.
00:40:59.000And under the statute, he ruled that healthcare workers don't count as civilians because that only means the public at large.
00:41:07.000It was the most twisted ruling and the most twisted reading of the statute that I've ever seen.
00:41:12.000And I'm like, this guy must obviously be a liberal to say that, oh, well, if you work for a healthcare company, you're not a civilian.
00:41:18.000It's like, yeah, that's exactly how all marks was think.
00:41:21.000Yeah, and one point I'll make, I mean, you know, I've seen a lot of these different cases where the law can say, you know, the sky is blue.
00:41:29.000But if a judge says, hey, you know, today it's red, it's like, it really, once again, there are flaws in the justice system.
00:41:36.000And some of these judges and some of the rulings, it can be as clear as day to all of us.
00:41:40.000And, you know, I mean, these judges are elected, right?
00:41:43.000Or they're appointed by somebody that we elected and that system's supposed to work.
00:41:46.000But sometimes it's just broken and it stinks and you got to power through it.
00:41:50.000And so I've been asked, say, what is the psychology of a Robin Simp?
00:43:44.000Do you guys remember Brian Coberger as in, the murderer up in Idaho of those Sorari girls?
00:43:50.000Oh oh, the guy who looks like uh, Richard Hinania, crossed with Josh Holly, and kind of looked a little bit like like Tyler Robinson, because y'all know who doesn't lie.
00:44:00.000So the the pro burgers are a subset of the true crime community where they completely believe that Brian Coberger is innocent, that he was set up, that someone else did that, and they have formed it's kind of a mini cult.
00:44:16.000They have this parasocial relationship with a variety of people who believe the pro burger cult and it's basically like a fandom cult of him.
00:44:26.000They have shrines, they have song, they have like edits of Brian Coberger.
00:44:31.000Obviously you see this a lot with Luigi Maggioni to a great extent um, and you see, you even see people taking trips to go and visit the places associated with Brian Coberger because they believed so strongly in his uh, in his innocence.
00:44:48.000But it's beyond, it's so far beyond, just you know oh, I think this guy didn't do it.
00:44:54.000It's literally become their identity because, I don't know, it's gotta be like you don't have meaning at home or you're disconnected and disassociated with life.
00:45:06.000It's uh, it is very female coded where yeah, they will completely allow this to subsume their identity.
00:45:14.000Well, what's funny is, I have to imagine really deep down, they would not want him to be innocent because clearly their actual thought is that he did do it.
00:45:23.000They just this is weird to say they think it's hot.
00:45:25.000I guess, like he's this dark killer person, like I don't think they would find this guy terribly interesting if he wasn't a murderer.
00:45:46.000It's a type of sexual attraction for people who commit serious crimes.
00:45:49.000Uh, you saw this uh, with the, the Columbine shooters.
00:45:54.000You see this with a variety of pillars.
00:45:56.000You saw this with the Boston bombers Iltarzanayev, where people who are um, I believe it was um, oh gosh, there are certain Ted Bundy got married while he was still in jail and you know they.
00:46:08.000They believe that they are super attracted sexually to bad boys criminals deviants, and they want those typical risky, you know risky relationships, and so they're attracted to criminals.
00:46:20.000So yeah Ted Bundy, um i'm, it wouldn't surprise me if they were people who were attracted to Jeffrey Dahmer.
00:46:26.000It's, it's absolutely a certain um paraphilia that's out there and it's this desire for intense, risky relationship.
00:46:33.000Yeah, you mean, did Jeffrey Dahmer get letters in jail just saying like please eat me Jeffrey, please?
00:46:39.000Yeah, and this is, this is why, you see, I mean a lot of the true crime documentaries.
00:46:42.000It's kind of wild to me how many of these serial killers have so many lovers right that they're exchanging letters with um.
00:46:49.000And it directly comes from, like you said that, that weird desire uh, to be with the bad boys.
00:46:54.000If you will, you even get funnier version, funny subversions of that like um, didn't Martin Skrelli had that journalist fall in love with him while he was in jail?
00:48:52.000The other thing that bothers me is the longer that this case goes, it's just going to continuously be more attention.
00:48:56.000I mean, obviously, I want attention to honor Charlie, but it's just going to be more fodder for all the trolls, right?
00:49:02.000Every time that this is live, every time it's out there, every time there's something new, and this grin, obviously, you know, the first time we're seeing him, it should make us all burn inside.
00:49:11.000And I'm sure the people that, you know, praise him and the people that celebrated the death of Charlie, you know, they love seeing that, right?
00:49:17.000This gives them something else to share, something else to celebrate.
00:49:36.000Another, I see her in the chat all the time.
00:49:38.000Kyrie donated to 10 and says, please give us who love Charlie, his family, the Charlie Kirk show team, and all the teams of Turning Point some practical ways that we can share the arrows, as Ali Stuckey says, that are being directed at all of you.
00:49:57.000You know, I think the best way is know the details of this case.
00:50:08.000And you can also go read, search a guy named Turkey Tom.
00:50:12.000There's a video you can look up called, I believe it is The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk.
00:50:17.000Obviously, he's presumed innocent, but that is the title of the video.
00:50:21.000Let me make sure I have that exactly right.
00:50:24.000Okay, it is titled The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk.
00:50:27.000And there's also a, if you prefer reading, there's a substack post that you can find by the same person.
00:50:32.000And what it gets into is it gets into the evidence about his personal life, his relationship with his boyfriend, the evidence, you know, that the stuff people have said is weird, such as him calling his boyfriend my love in their messages, the guy saying that is in fact how they talk to each other.
00:50:50.000If you guys want to help share the arrows, learn those facts because the most common thing you see is you see the Robin simps, as they're calling them, who are going to just say, oh, he's a Patsy.
00:51:08.000In truth, I think they're saying this because this is a drawn-out process and not enough of it is on TV, basically, for them to feel like it's real.
00:51:19.000The evidence in this case, we believe, is quite strong.
00:51:23.000If we thought it was fake, if we thought they had the wrong guy, we would obviously be freaking out because we care deeply that the correct person be brought to justice for this.
00:51:34.000So the best way you can share those arrows is know those facts.
00:51:37.000So if it comes up in passing, you're able to say, oh man, did you hear about this?
00:51:43.000Did you hear about the stuff that they were into?
00:51:50.000You could make a fascinating, there will be fascinating true crime documentaries about all of this one day because it is lurid.
00:51:58.000It is incredibly upsetting to see the life, the lives that these people were leading and to think that this allowed a person to go and to just go and randomly strike down a person as great as Charlie.
00:52:12.000So maybe you have your own thoughts, Cliff, but that's my thought on how to share the load.
00:52:16.000Yeah, I mean, of course, referring to the public perception of what's happening in the trial, but I also want to say what would Charlie want us to do to share the arrows is to go do the work, right?
00:52:26.000Obviously, I'm not always going to pitch that we got to be out chasing ballots, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't.
00:52:31.000Get out there, you know, get involved.
00:52:33.000Find a way to advance our cause when it comes to the political scene, when it comes to the ideology of trying to reach new people.
00:53:00.000And when I think about what Charlie would be telling me right now, it would be, yes, honor him, follow the trial.
00:53:07.000But at the end of the day, we cannot get distracted.
00:53:11.000And what I mean by that is not that we're going to not give him the homage that he deserves, but he would want us to do the work.
00:53:18.000And so for all of you out there that have done certain things, whether it was 2024 or before, 2026 is coming up.
00:53:25.000And that's a huge opportunity for us to get involved and to truly make a difference when it comes to figuring out ways to do the work as Charlie would want us to do.
00:53:53.000They want to, ultimately, for whatever thing is going through their head, they want to tear down the things that Charlie fought for, the things that Charlie died for.
00:54:04.000And so along with what I suggested, Cliff is absolutely right.
00:54:18.000And so we've been saying Turning Point Action will be taking action on that.
00:54:21.000If you're in that state, that is an easy way to get involved with something right now that is relevant.
00:54:26.000But I know other people are saying they want to find out other facts.
00:54:30.000Some people mentioned Paramount Tactical.
00:54:32.000I was just looking at their videos the other day.
00:54:34.000They have great videos just talking about the details of the case, how we can know what happened or why some things people are saying about the bullet, for example.