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00:05:08.000So just breaking in the last about an hour ago, the Secretary of State, Shenna Bellows, unilaterally kicked Donald Trump off the ballot in Maine, declaring him an insurrectionist who is not allowed under the 14th Amendment.
00:05:24.000This was not a state a lot of people were watching.
00:05:26.000Obviously, there's been legal challenges in a lot of states.
00:05:39.000And then you have a few lawsuits in other places, but there was not a lot of attention on Maine.
00:05:44.000But apparently, just a few days ago, they had just a hearing about it because some people brought a complaint.
00:05:51.000And then the Secretary of State, who was appointed by the legislature there to, so this woman was just appointed by the Democrat-controlled legislature, and she just unilaterally announced that Donald Trump is an insurrectionist, so he's not allowed on the Maine ballot.
00:06:05.000Yeah, so this is breaking literally in the last couple of minutes.
00:06:08.000I think we might be the only show live right now, Jack, that is covering this.
00:06:58.000So the fact that the RNC isn't more vocal about this, I mean, you would think that this would be like a slam dunk for the RNC chair to be out every single day and just be like, this is stupid.
00:07:16.000You're going to keep him off the ballot and the Supreme Court's going to be like, no, this is an angel tradition that we've done since the beginning of time where each of the parties nominates a candidate and then they'll go.
00:07:26.000Now, the fact that the RNC isn't coming out and talking about this more vocally is exactly why people are losing their minds going, oh my gosh, the RNC is in on it to try to keep Trump off the ballot.
00:08:57.000So, Jack, for those of us that don't do this for a living, well, I guess we do, but in the audience where they have, you know, nice, purposeful, deep lives that don't involve following politics for 18 hours a day.
00:09:11.000Walk us through Colorado, Michigan, Maine.
00:09:15.000Well, okay, so here's some of the facts on this.
00:09:18.000So Colorado, this one, it's kind of in abeyance right now.
00:09:22.000So Colorado, we know, unilaterally stripped Trump off the ballot by their Supreme Court decision, the Supreme Court, a whole bunch of Democrats up there.
00:09:32.000I think it later came out that it was a Blake Kirk Room 7-2 decision.
00:09:55.000So they stripped Trump from the ballot by the Democrat Supreme Court of Colorado.
00:09:59.000However, this has been appealed to the Supreme Court.
00:10:02.000And because they are taking it up, currently, as it stands, as we are live today is December 28th, 2023.
00:10:11.000I know, Domini, that the Colorado Secretary of State has stated that Trump will remain on the ballot until the Supreme Court decision comes out.
00:11:45.000You need a spreadsheet up of when the primary is and what the status of the ballot is.
00:11:52.000And then also cross-reference that legal challenges.
00:11:55.000So, Charlie, and as you're saying, they are just going to keep doing this throughout the entire year.
00:12:00.000And what they're going to try to do is time it so that you will have Trump stripped from the ballot without enough time for him to fight it in court in terms of when the primary date actually takes place.
00:12:12.000Guys, you're talking about this is as if this was a democracy, okay?
00:13:59.000So they just, they just did themselves in.
00:14:01.000So that option is technically off the table by their own admission, right?
00:14:06.000So at this point, then it would be a Republican.
00:14:10.000Yeah, I mean, they could decide not to print Trump's name on the ballot, but you still have to print the name of the electors on the ballot who they're technically voting for to send to Congress.
00:14:24.000I think we might be getting ahead of things because I think the most likely outcome is just that this will go to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court will smack it down.
00:14:31.000And then once the Supreme Court smacks it down, they can't really just ignore it without nakedly inviting like a serious civil disruption, which that is our second topic if we want to get into it.
00:14:43.000Blake, before we go there, let me ask you this just to follow up.
00:14:46.000So if the Supreme Court does rule, and I think it's a given, the Supreme Court's going to rule in one of these quickly, the question is, will that be a blanket summary judgment or will they try to continue to find other ways to keep bringing this up?
00:15:04.000I feel like the first pass, it's pretty likely the Supreme Court might pretty quickly say no, and they'll find some way to dismiss it.
00:15:12.000But if this is getting, you know, if it's clearly taking over the whole election, I think there will be more pressure on the Supreme Court to issue a relatively firm ruling on it, which I think, you know, the Supreme Court always under John Roberts likes to mostly do what's safe.
00:15:29.000And I feel like the safe thing for Roberts to do is to say, no, you can't say someone is an insurrectionist unless they're literally convicted of the crime of insurrection or some set of offenses.
00:16:02.000Well, I think that the entire game plan here, what they were trying to, what they're trying to goad us into, was for a Republican Party to accept this.
00:16:11.000Because once a Republican Party accepts this, then what it does is then it puts pressure on the RNC to accept it.
00:16:19.000And once the RNC accepts it, then the RNC has to try to make it.
00:16:23.000They're trying to force a move before the RNC convention, right?
00:16:27.000And so I think ultimately what is not going to happen is that they're not going to fall for this.
00:16:33.000I can tell you that like Ron is like shaking in her boots right now.
00:16:36.000She's not going to be like playing games here of like going along with removing Trump.
00:16:54.000And I think that's what that was their hope, though.
00:16:55.000I think their hope was like, oh, let's try to dabble in some of these states where Trump may not be super popular and see if we can go to state party into kicking him off the ballot and they'll go along with it.
00:17:06.000Because then if there's three or four or five states that do it, now you have a real problem on your hands if you're the RNC, right?
00:17:12.000Because the RNC has basically an insurrection vis-a-vis an insurrection, right?
00:17:19.000So that's a, that, that was, I think, what we tried to, we didn't take the bait.
00:17:23.000We already, we clearly haven't taken the bait.
00:17:25.000Yeah, he's up way, way more than they ever expect him to be.
00:17:33.000If they, if the Democrats thought this out more, they would have tried to bribe everyone in the GOP with a giant foam hat before attempting because I would probably give an even bigger hat.
00:17:50.000And obviously, you know, when I want all the Trump lawyers, Alina Haba and everyone to be wearing hats like this in court, particularly within before the Supreme Court when this goes up.
00:18:00.000But Blake, isn't there an argument to be made that I've seen some people circulating this already, that the 14th Amendment doesn't even apply to the president because they're talking about specific offices and obviously that the president is covered under impeachment.
00:18:37.000No, no person shall be senator or representative in Congress or elector of president and vice president, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States or under any state who have previously taken an oath as a member of Congress or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state to support the Constitution Of the United States,
00:19:05.000shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
00:19:11.000But Congress may by a two-third vote of each house remove such disability.
00:19:16.000So there's Colorado real quick was that they held, right, the court in Colorado at the trial court level, which was a Democrat appointed justice, held that based on what you just read, Charlie, this does not apply to the president.
00:19:31.000That's what the court held at the lowest level there.
00:19:34.000The argument is essentially that officer of the United States means like a created position within the executive branch.
00:19:43.000Whereas the president is not an officer of.
00:19:46.000It is a literal constitutional position and not actually called an officer.
00:19:51.000I think you can kind of go either way on that.
00:19:55.000I know that I glanced at the ruling and they dig into the argument that the president is considered an officer of the United States.
00:20:03.000I don't think as far as terrible reasoning in that ruling goes, I don't, that didn't stand out to me as something that just seemed incredibly dumb.
00:20:13.000I do think, like, at a minimum, politically, Trump getting away with it by just saying, I did insurrection, but I wasn't actually an officer of the United States, so it's okay, is not a strong position to be in.
00:20:26.000It's not the argument you want to carry the day.
00:20:28.000What you want is to say, this is BS because, you know, there's a million reasons it's BS.
00:20:33.000And you want to focus on that rather than it's, you know, it's kind of angle shooting on a technicality to say he's not.
00:20:39.000But you don't, you don't, but that's the point, though, is if it doesn't apply to the president, then you don't even need to necessarily get into the insurrection side.
00:20:46.000And that's why I say that for the Supreme Court, this could just be an easy out for them to say, well, we don't want to get into the insurrection question, but we can just get simply get into the textual question of whether or not it applies to the president.
00:21:38.000It was to set the narrative war, set the op-ed industry so that a secretary of state says, well, I've been hearing about insurrection for the last couple of years.
00:22:05.000Yeah, it's not at all clear whether or not there was a seditious conspiracy, especially when most of the people that were convicted of that were not actually in the Capitol on January 6th.
00:22:18.000So I suppose, you know, kind of to put a cap on this, guys, and then we can kind of get into the next couple of topics.
00:22:26.000Can we anticipate more states to follow suit California before the Supreme Court comes in?
00:22:31.000And is it, here's the question, Blake.
00:22:33.000What if the Supreme Court is indifferent?
00:22:36.000What if the Supreme Court says, states, you guys decide yourself?
00:22:41.000That it would definitely, I think, just be disastrous for the country because I think what you would immediately get is well, obviously you'd just get retaliation by red states.
00:22:51.000We would just start kicking Biden off the ballot.
00:22:54.000And at that point, I mean, why even have an election?
00:22:57.000You're really just, you're just totally throwing it into chaos.
00:23:00.000You would never be able to hold a presidential vote that anyone would regard seriously.
00:23:05.000You can't have an accurate popular vote in any measure at all.
00:23:10.000It would just, it would be functionally impossible to have a real election.
00:24:07.000I mean, I think deep down with Newsom and all, I think a lot of Democrats realize this has excellent possibility to really backfire on them because one, it's not a great look to have any, you know, a Democrat official unilaterally kicking Trump off the ballot.
00:24:33.000A lot of them probably think we can do this as a defiant, you know, FU to Trump because the Supreme Court will like, you know, throw it out.
00:24:41.000And so we don't have to be held accountable for the insane things we're doing.
00:24:45.000It's three-dimensional too, too, Blake, because they also, they know the Supreme Court is likely to overturn them, but they want to also deteriorate trust in the Supreme Court, of which is what's also true and everything else.
00:25:17.000And it's all Supreme Court is about to strip.
00:25:19.000The Supreme Court has stripped women of their rights.
00:25:22.000The Supreme Court has, you know, allowed or they're basically telling you that the Supreme Court has illegalized, you know, criminalized abortion in the United States, that the Supreme Court's out of control.
00:25:33.000And it's, I'm telling you, it is like every other YouTube ad in DC, which means the liberals of the liberals are getting this.
00:25:42.000I think that it's clearly going to be a huge part of the Democrat playbook going into 24.
00:25:48.000We know there's a lot of initiatives that are already coming up for this.
00:25:52.000But I got to say, you know, when I look at, it's kind of like what we talked about last week, about how Blake was telling that story about, you know, when they put up the pro-life crosses and some lib just came and ran it over with their car.
00:26:04.000You know, the Democrats are willing to do this in this country.
00:26:07.000They'll just unilaterally strip you from the ballot.
00:26:17.000And that gets us into top, like, we were actually going to talk about this even before the main news broke, but it makes it far more, it stands out more.
00:26:26.000So there's a lot of articles just in the last couple weeks even, like, is America headed towards a civil war?
00:26:33.000Is America going to just permanently break apart?
00:26:36.000And obviously there's that movie that's coming out in the spring, which we talked about last time.
00:26:40.000So setting aside whether a civil war will happen, the topic we wanted to have to close the year is which side would win a civil war?
00:26:51.000And I kind of wonder if we're even going to disagree on this one.
00:26:56.000So let's define the parameters of the civil war.
00:27:01.000So Blake, just throw out the scenario that you're talking about here.
00:27:04.000Because in the movie, it's like only two states versus the government.
00:27:25.000And they just are kind of making it up as they go.
00:27:27.000I think, you know, if we want the most reasonable one, let's actually, let's imagine the one where the Supreme Court, you know, abdicates itself from the results.
00:27:37.000So we have this kind of bogus election where Biden isn't on the ballot in 15 states and Trump isn't on the ballot in 15 states.
00:27:45.000And there's a bunch of shady crap that goes on even in the states where they're both on the ballot.
00:27:50.000And let's say giant pile of dust and you can't even really tell who won, but somehow, you know, the powers that be say, oh, actually, Joe Biden got reelected and you have to deal with it and accept it.
00:28:03.000Let's say Trump gets elected again and a lot of blue states just flip out and say, nope, we're literally not accepting this.
00:28:11.000And they convene a convention of a convention to secede, actually, which they talked about doing in 2020.
00:28:19.000So let's just say they did that again.
00:28:22.000And then you'd kind of have, you'd have a situation where there's a disputed presidency and where you would go from there is difficult to imagine, to be honest.
00:28:33.000People will talk willy-nilly about a civil war, but I think the first thing you have to grasp is it's so difficult to envision what the battle lines would be.
00:28:40.000You know, in 1860, a civil war is South Carolina secedes, Virginia secedes, and 80 plus percent of the state's population basically goes along with it and is even willing to fight over it.
00:28:53.000But the number of states where you even get over 70% for one presidential candidate is not very high, let alone people who are literally willing to like shoot anyone over a political question in the U.S.
00:29:04.000And, you know, I don't think you could assume every military unit would go a certain way or even every police department.
00:29:13.000Well, what you're saying is that it's not as clean or, you know, as it was in the most, when we think, when we mentioned Civil War, people want to go back to 1860 and talk about the situation at the time.
00:29:25.000But in 1860, you had state militias that were that were organized.
00:29:31.000You had National Guard units that were directly targeted to the state.
00:30:05.000And so what that would lead into, in my opinion, is if you imagine any sort of violent civil conflict in America, what's going to immediately stand out as important is literally who gets organized more quickly.
00:30:18.000So who is able to figure out who is on our side?
00:30:23.000What do we need to do to assert ourselves?
00:30:25.000And I'll be honest, I feel like the obvious answer to that is the left.
00:30:30.000Like there's going to be way more institutions in America that can just assume they are 95 to 100% aligned with what the left wants.
00:30:39.000And then they can muster those institutions to do things that they want.
00:30:43.000You know, every university in America, most like big city local governments are going to be like this.
00:30:50.000Large, you know, entire departments of the federal government will be like this.
00:30:55.000And then on top of that, they still have, you know, relatively experienced, you know, street agitators like Antifa and all of that.
00:31:02.000And when you compare this to, you know, if you've ever been at some barbecue with conservatives where they'll just think like, yeah, you know, they'll, they'll try to pick a fight, but we own all the guns.
00:31:12.000And I would just say owning all of the guns is not that useful against owning all of the organization, for lack of a better term.
00:31:21.000Well, and you also, I mean, you have this question of which side is more willing to use violence.
00:31:27.000And I mentioned this on the space that I was on last night, which went totally nuts.
00:31:31.000But, you know, Blake, you and I were co-hosting the Chronicles of the Revolution, which has been just racing up the charts this whole week.
00:31:46.000We're, you know, we're all about Franco.
00:31:47.000Tomorrow we're doing the 1960s in the United States.
00:31:51.000And one of the key sides of this is that you see the left is like almost always the first one that's willing to use violence.
00:31:58.000And we also, what did we see over the weekend?
00:32:01.000The left was able to shut down elements of the left, were able to shut down for a time, both JFK and LAX this weekend, Christmas weekend.
00:32:11.000So one of the most traveled weekends of the entire year, the two largest by far airports and traffic hubs, transportation hubs of the entire country were shut down by leftists.
00:32:23.000And I mean, look at the strategy they used of hitting the expressway, going into JFK.
00:32:29.000So again, looking at those critical choke points, these were paramilitary style operations, which I would argue are being used as testing or, you know, testing situation stress tests on our systems going into 2024.
00:32:44.000And you see the left doing this with impunity in various parts of the country.
00:32:49.000I'm sure they'll say, oh, this is in the name of Palestine, just like it was in the name of George Floyd, just like it was in the name of whatever before that, you know, Ferguson, Michael Brown, or Freddie Gray in Baltimore.
00:33:02.000The fact of the matter is they're, they are organized and they're willing to use violence, whereas the right is always kind of, like I just said before, in Vaporlock on a lot of this stuff.
00:34:22.000I know people right now, Coronado in San Diego, that said, I'm on two-week disciplinary action because I misgendered some freak that was on a flight simulator.
00:34:30.000And this guy like dreams about being on a drone, you know, terrorizing MAGA Republicans.
00:34:34.000By the way, they fantasize talking about killing white people.
00:35:11.000I think police departments in general do lean in our favor.
00:35:15.000And you can tell just a lot of them were very disaffected by 2020, for example.
00:35:22.000And again, there's lots of small towns that have their own police departments.
00:35:26.000So you can kind of imagine those being on our side.
00:35:29.000But that, you know, that makes no sense in the sort of decentralized chaos sort of situation where you would just have, you know, thousands and thousands of rural police officers announcing that they're not going to enforce this or that law or this or that decree from the central government.
00:35:44.000That might really be what any form of civil conflict would look like.
00:35:48.000It might just take the form of, you know, Biden wins a super disputed election.
00:35:54.000And then what if 10 red states just announce, you know, we don't regard Biden as a legitimate president and we are just going to ignore anything that comes out of Washington for the time being.
00:36:06.000Now, what is conceivable is if what if very theoretical, if whatever the American right or conservative world had a pocket of actual resistance, if a foreign adversary or like Russia came in and started to actually help that pocket of resistance, then all of a sudden it would be, that would be interesting.
00:36:24.000But I mean, would you want to accept that?
00:36:29.000I just roll my eyes when people are like, we're going to a civil war and, you know, we have guns and arm up.
00:36:34.000I'm like, I don't think you have any comprehension of what that even means, how sad that would be, how dark that would be, how irreversible that would be.
00:36:42.000And in some ways, the bad guys want us to talk like that for some sort of massive power grab.
00:36:47.000But also on the police side, excuse me when I say I love some police.
00:37:14.000I don't want to, you know, I don't want to resist.
00:37:16.000And so, look, I don't want to be too dark about it, but if your, let's say, solution is that somehow this is going to get into civil conflict and right-wing America is going to rise up, I think you got to check your premise a little bit.
00:37:39.000The best case scenario would be like a million dead people and an irreconcilable schism of a country where every third person you know is dead and every male under 30 is destroyed and the country's permanently ruined.
00:37:58.000Why would we like even entertain this idea?
00:38:01.000I just, I think it's well, a lot of, I would say a very common impulse on the right is I feel like a lot of a lot of conservatives would rather stand on a pile of ashes screaming, I told you so, than actually win, unfortunately.
00:38:25.000Yeah, I think the people in charge are inviting it through what they're doing.
00:38:29.000It's almost like they say we control the electricity, we control the water, we control the internet, we control the drones, we control the nuclear power plants, we control people.
00:38:41.000It's like, I think it was Spaw Willie who just bragged, like, if you resist, we'll just drop a nuclear bomb on you.
00:38:46.000There's, there's a lot of people who are.
00:39:05.000Blake, you talked a lot yesterday on the show about the Russian Revolution and how the whites were just like totally disorganized and they were all over the place.
00:39:16.000And when I look at the situation we're talking about, we're like, okay, you might have like a couple of like FOPs here and there, maybe a few National Guard units, this and that thing, but there's no central organizing force.
00:39:28.000It just reminds me of the Russian loyalists going up against the Red Army.
00:39:33.000I mean, that's basically what it was turned down to.
00:39:46.000Well, you can look at an electoral map and it'll tell you that.
00:39:48.000And now take that for every major nerve center of the country.
00:39:52.000And it's like, you know, politically, it is relevant that, you know, we do better in places that are further from the rungs of power.
00:39:59.000That, you know, that's kind of what makes us a populist movement.
00:40:02.000It makes us kind of a dissident movement.
00:40:05.000But it definitely is not great if you want to win any sort of irregular conflict because winning in a regular conflict is based heavily on control of institutions, proximity to sources of power, proximity to sources of legitimacy.
00:40:20.000And we're massively deficient in all those things.
00:40:23.000And you just, again, you have boomer cons who cope with this by just like, say, you know, owning 100 guns that they have in their attic.
00:40:39.000But I want to say this, though, because the one thing I would point out, Jack, is that the Russian Revolution happened in a vacuum while World War I was going on.
00:40:49.000So you had a situation where you didn't, the men weren't there.
00:40:56.000You had all the loyalists essentially were not there.
00:41:00.000And it happened in a vacuum and the whole world didn't really even know what was going on at the time.
00:41:04.000Charlie has a really great point, which is that there's a likelihood that it wouldn't happen in a vacuum.
00:41:10.000There would be a number of different interests that would show up.
00:41:15.000And yes, someone in the chat just put, like, yeah, I mean, look at what's going on in Ukraine right now with Russia between Russia and Ukraine.
00:41:21.000Like, this is not, this would not be a simple, you know, run through the country.
00:41:28.000You have literally millions of people with guns and divide that's happening in every state, including, including the deep blue states, the, the, you know, the people that would be loyal to that, uh, to the DC.
00:41:42.000I think it would be really interesting.
00:41:44.000I think you'd have a couple of resources.
00:41:46.000I think a lot of outside forces would come in, but I don't know if it would be as simple as, although I do think there's a lot of a ton of analogies to the Russian Revolution where we are at in American history.
00:42:00.000We've talked about this a number of different times.
00:42:04.000I think that's part of the reason why they want to send us to war, to be honest with you, is because, again, it would be easier to do this, right?
00:42:12.000To dominate a civil war if all our men are gone.
00:42:16.000And that, to me, is the scariest part of the Ukraine conflict, to be honest with you.
00:42:21.000Because they know that the people who would get sent to a major conflict, if we did, if one of these did kick off, whether it be China, whether it be Russia, whether it be Iran, whatever like sort of the, you know, the war of the week is Venezuela, I think is probably on the list.
00:42:35.000That would be sort of, and I'm not going to just necessarily say Trump supporters, but I did say that in a tweet once and it got went like super viral and all the neocons really mad at me.
00:42:46.000And I was, well, I said don't put it back to them to start a to start a war so they could send all the Trump supporter males off to fight and die so Trump can't win.
00:42:55.000But what I'm saying is essentially to your point that the military age males who are likely to go and conduct that combat are the same type of people who would participate in a reactionary backstop here in the United States should something like this kick off.
00:43:13.000And to Charlie's point and your point as well, those are the exact type of people that they'd want to get rid of.
00:43:20.000And I mean, just finally, it would be so I'm afraid that there's a little bit too much of a romantic quality to how people think about this.
00:43:32.000And again, I haven't actually ever been to a country at war.
00:43:51.000And once you cross that delta, there really is no going back.
00:43:54.000Now, while I say that, I will simultaneously agree, I don't know how we coexist with these 50 million people, or let's just say 20 million people of insane radicals.
00:44:07.000I don't know, other than there needs to be a live and let live.
00:44:10.000I'm not going to get into your business.
00:44:16.000I mean, I know it would suck, but I think they would end up congregating.
00:44:20.000Yeah, I'm just the people, the people, you know what I'm talking about, Tyler, the people that are forcing me to do pronouns and like that are trying to, you know, swat Jack's home, you know, right?
00:44:29.000And that I don't know how my parents twice this week over Christmas.
00:45:03.000We're practically at war against Russia, and the government also guaranteed all deposits at the second largest and third largest bank run in history.
00:45:11.000This means more money printing, and the Fed has just raised interest rates by another quarter basis point.
00:45:44.000By the way, guys, watching, we're looking on the stream.
00:45:47.000So make sure you guys sign into the chat.
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00:45:53.000This was the number one, you want to talk about a civil war.
00:45:55.000This was a right-wing civil war online yesterday, mostly between women.
00:46:00.000Very few men weighed in on this, which actually I think that's probably a good thing because it's just overly cringe to have men comment on hyper-female topics.
00:46:10.000But here we go, four white men to comment on the most controversial topic of the week.
00:46:21.000Okay, so Calendar Gate, which is something that I really didn't want to get into this week or talk about in any way, shape, or form.
00:46:30.000And then I was doing a Twitter spaces again to promote Blake and I's excellent docu series this week, Chronicles of the Revolution, the history, the secret history of leftist uprising around the world.
00:46:42.000My brother kind of like commandeered the space and turned out that he was in a Twitter war with Seth Weathers all over Calendar Gate.
00:46:51.000And then everybody involved in Calendar Gate joined the space and basically it just became a two-hour, as you say, full-on civil war over the pinup calendar.
00:47:38.000But because this is the conservative ultra-right beer, what they decided to then do was get out a calendar of some of the number one conservative female influencers, many of whom, I think all of whom have been on our various shows other than this one, because there are no girls on Thought Crime.
00:47:59.000And I think, you know, I don't have the list right in front of me.
00:48:41.000Most of these people at one point or another or currently are turning point ambassadors or were involved and come to our events and have been really great at promoting conservative principles and what we do at Turning Point.
00:48:59.000So that's kind of the long and short of it.
00:49:02.000And so the calendar had been out for a little bit.
00:49:06.000And, you know, really Bryson Gray was one of the guys that kind of started this iteration of it.
00:49:12.000People coming in and saying, you know, he came out and said, this never should have been done.
00:49:16.000He said it was unchristian, specifically calling it demonic.
00:49:19.000I had him on the space and he, you know, Charlie, you, you would have appreciated.
00:49:23.000He was going chapter and verse, Old Testament and New Testament, against this thing.
00:49:28.000And he was asking for anyone, he was challenging, could anyone come in here and say that I'm biblically incorrect?
00:49:47.000Why shouldn't we have good looking girls in a calendar?
00:49:50.000My brother came in, and this is kind of what started us on the whole path, was he actually had said, and this is a bit more nuanced, I think.
00:49:57.000He had said that he wasn't against the calendar in and of itself, but he was against the inclusion of a crucifix in the calendar, which is Josie's photo, as you can see here.
00:50:10.000Now, Josie eventually comes on there, and Kevin and her, before it really got out of control, kind of had a conversation about this.
00:50:17.000And she said, look, you know, this was just, you know, that's just a crucifix that's up in her kitchen.
00:50:54.000And so what, well, let me just, let me just finish the piece on the crucifix was Kevin Josie had just said, look, you know, and she agreed.
00:51:00.000She said, look, you know, we could have taken it out.
00:51:02.000She said it was, I think it was an oversight.
00:51:04.000And Kevin said, fine, you take it out.
00:52:11.000Number one: if you're a leader in the conservative movement trying to be a role model for young ladies, is this the best look?
00:52:19.000I think that was a question that people had.
00:52:21.000Number two, some people say, oh, they didn't know what they were signing up for.
00:52:25.000You know, Riley Gaines, who I really respect and like, you know, she's there awfully provocatively there, and she's a swimmer, so you could argue it both ways.
00:52:33.000But a lot of people, a lot of young ladies, look up to her.
00:52:36.000But also, it says on the website, 10% of the sales will be donated to the Riley Gaines Center to protect women's sports from extremist ideology.
00:52:44.000So the Leadership Institute is raising money off of this.
00:53:20.000So the question is: role models of what is a conservative female.
00:53:25.000And I think that there's this tension where some of the females say, well, we're not men, so let's own our bodies.
00:53:33.000But isn't that kind of feminine mystique 1960s liberalism?
00:53:38.000In some ways, I look at more kind of like Allie B. Stuckey or Lila Rose, who are very successful mothers who are in the movement that both vocally, verbally and vocally, I think embrace much more of a piety to themselves, which is certainly missing in this calendar.
00:53:58.000And you can make your own argument with it.
00:54:22.000Like they do this as like a very nominal compliant, and it's like a little tiny thing.
00:54:25.000But no, like you have Orthodox Jewish women who cannot show their hair to anyone who is not their husband.
00:54:31.000They actually shave their head usually.
00:54:33.000They shave it and wear wigs because they do their telemetic reasoning.
00:54:38.000But there are other groups where they just, you know, they do that straight up.
00:54:41.000I mean, Islamic cultures, of course, they'll have women aggressively cover themselves.
00:54:46.000And I think it feels a little weird for the right, which the American right, which generally doesn't embrace those principles.
00:54:53.000Like we're basically okay with women, like, frankly, dressing to look good in public for people.
00:55:01.000Maybe, you know, maybe not like getting naked, maybe not wearing really revealing stuff, but we're basically okay with the idea of them looking good in public.
00:55:08.000And then we're kind of trying to say, well, this really, this calendar, which has no nudity in it, and not really even any like salacious content.
00:55:16.000Like there's nothing like that you'd see in the sports illustrated swimsuit issue where like they'll be in a swimsuit, but it's falling off and they're covering themselves.
00:55:24.000You know, we've all seen that sort of thing.
00:55:46.000I didn't, I didn't think it's cringy at all.
00:55:48.000I like literally didn't even give this two thoughts.
00:55:50.000I thought it was crazy that people were even talking about this beyond a sentence.
00:55:53.000I actually think that part of the reason I thought that I thought the most provocative photo in all these photos that I saw was actually in the bathtub.
00:56:04.000I thought that was a little over the top.
00:56:06.000And I saw the video, the behind-the-scenes video that she posted, and I saw him scooping up the bubbles.
00:56:13.000And I thought I was like, oh no, are they bottling the bubbles?
00:56:17.000This is taking this to the next level.
00:56:36.000And so I got a little bit concerned that this became a secondary play on top of the calendar sales and that Morgan maybe was taking a percentage of the bath water too.
00:57:28.000So I'm going to give a shout out to Jack and so is Tucker and so is Trump and so are some of the more high-performing people in the movement.
00:57:34.000I don't really want to take it this direction, but we have some friends over at Old Row and there's some other places that have much more provocative things that are being posted every single day on the side.
00:57:44.000There's just a niche community of Americans who find that acceptable and non-offensive.
00:58:07.000She's like the number one face of certainly of 2023.
00:58:12.000I think that right, I think Riley is the one that received the most feedback here because they say, Riley, you are kind of America's sweetheart in some ways.
00:58:23.000Should America's sweetheart who was terrorized by men in Speedos in Speedos do this?
00:58:32.000And that's, I think, really where a lot of this conversation.
00:58:36.000But the problem with men and speedos isn't Speedos.
00:59:33.000A conservative influencers, female and male, supposedly are, you know, being or have their positions and platforms because of their ideas and their thoughts and their words and who they are, not what they are.
00:59:50.000So, you know, I don't care if other people wanted to put out a, you know, a swimsuit edition calendar or whatever.
00:59:58.000But the fact of the matter is that what you're doing is you're taking these conservative women who go around and their entire Twitter feeds or X feeds or wherever they put, you know, post their hang their thoughts are is about being conservative and being traditional.
01:00:15.000And then you go and do something like this, which is the exact opposite of that.
01:00:18.000And so it totally just tarnishes everything that you've been saying.
01:00:22.000And then on, and on the flip side, it also, it's very reductive.
01:00:26.000It's very reductive because it is now reducing you to, you know, just your body or whatever.
01:00:31.000So, you know, that's why when this thing first came out, I wasn't planning on talking about it.
01:00:38.000I'm sure they're selling a lot of calendars off of it.
01:00:40.000So, you know, I guess you guys got to make money and different organizations are making money off of it.
01:00:45.000It's just, you know, it's honestly something that I wouldn't have wanted to participate in if, you know, and nobody had reached out to me, but, you know, to participate in it.
01:00:54.000But had they, I would have said no, thanks.
01:00:56.000And yeah, just the second thing is we've been actually, I think, very fair in how we're covering this.
01:01:01.000You know who's the most ferocious is conservative women on Twitter, like aggressive towards this.
01:01:07.000I mean, Peachy Keenan and many others, they're going like 10 out of 10.
01:01:12.000But I think some of it is vitriol towards some of the people.
01:01:15.000Peachy, towards Ali, Ali Bathsucki, also who you mentioned, Charlie, what came out against it.
01:01:30.000Give me a bad section that I saw that she was.
01:01:34.000You can probably guess, you can probably guess what I think about a calendar branded for conservative dads filled with pictures of women, many of them married and many of them very scantily clad.
01:01:46.000I also find the discourse ridiculous as if we're all supposed to pretend we don't understand the purpose of a calendar of posed full-body pictures of women.
01:01:53.000You can call me a prude, puritanical, or jealous of these women's beauty, whatever makes you feel better.
01:01:58.000I just don't see the value in marketing what's basically in some photos soft porn to married or unmarried men.
01:04:07.000And like, you know, it's like those black rifle coffee ads that are just all about like bacon and hot women and machine guns and more bacon.
01:04:17.000And like, it's, it's sort of this, you know, what liberals would call like reactionary, like threatened masculinity.
01:04:24.000Like we would say like conservative men feel threatened by trannies.
01:04:28.000And so they're going to like push back by buying this calendar of conservative Twitter personalities in swimsuits.
01:04:37.000I don't think it's so much cringe that like there's very tame photos of people in swimsuits.
01:04:43.000So I have, yeah, and I have a question for everybody because it's just, it kind of reminded me, it had kind of, it wasn't obviously done this nicely, but it had like kind of a throwback to like pinna models of like the 30s and 40s.
01:04:59.000And Jack, I know you're a big fan of like that era and the classiness of like that entire era.
01:05:07.000Yeah, traditional gender roles, like Hollywood in the 30s and 40s, like you watch some of those movies and there's a lot to be like if we could kind of harken back to societal norms back then, I think America would be a lot better.
01:05:22.000But like pinup girls were like very popular, right?
01:05:25.000Like that was, that was a thing in that era that was very, very big.
01:05:30.000I would even argue that we probably got more conservative after that for a hot second before going barreling down this road in the 80s and 90s to where we are today.
01:05:42.000I mean, maybe politically, but this is a new stuff, which is my point.
01:06:41.000So every time, whether it's Riley or Josie or Ashley, who I'm friends with all of them, by the way, it's still going to be like the ultimate comeback, which by the way, is what when, what's a guy's name, Brian Atlas from the whatever podcast came onto my space last night.
01:06:56.000And that's immediately how he started attacking Ashley.
01:06:59.000That's immediately what he went in on.
01:07:03.000Which I think is just like a creepy thing, right?
01:07:07.000Like, why would again, I just, you know, again, I agree with the entire sentiment.
01:07:13.000It might be, but why get what, but you've, what you've done is you've now made yourself vulnerable to that kind of attack for the rest of your career.
01:07:32.000Anyone who's going to stand as, like a, you know, for a morally rigid position will always be vulnerable to accusations of hypocrisy.
01:07:41.000Uh now, I do think that if you're taking the position of cal of basically pg rated calendars being bad, you're probably pushing a political position that is very far outside the mainstream of the Us or basically any country outside of the mainstream.
01:08:01.000But again, we're talking about conservative influencers.
01:08:06.000Well okay, the very idea of a conservative influencer is that there's someone who's more plugged into, you know, mainstream culture than conservatives of before.
01:08:15.000Like what will people even praise like turning point events for?
01:08:19.000They'll praise them for having like, actually attractive women at them, and there will be people who are on stage who dressed up to be attractive, and I don't think that it's that insane that they would also have photos of them that are basically what can go on a calendar.
01:10:03.000Why don't we have more Phyllis Schlafly energy in our, in our movement?
01:10:06.000Well, they do events, but this is where it comes down to.
01:10:10.000It comes down to the like the, the fine line of walking between our events right where it's like people come, like we saw the article that was that was sent over today in the group chat right, which talked about how turning points going to culture and bringing it to people, and that's what makes it acceptable.
01:10:28.000Where it's like we've got all these social media influencers, we got people, and sometimes that pushes the envelope a little bit, and I think we've done a really good job at walking that fine line.
01:10:35.000Where it's like we're not throwing things in people's faces, even though we've had tons of complaints Charlie Knows We've had tons of complaints from parents before saying, I went to your event.
01:10:44.000There's a lot of girls that were underdressed.
01:10:48.000And our challenge has always been is how do we make sure that people are properly dressed?
01:10:54.000And over the years, I think, you know, things have kind of corrected.
01:10:57.000And, you know, we have a lot more people who are a lot more responsible, a lot more conservative, a lot more modest at events, especially student events, but still cool, right?
01:11:07.000And like a good example, I think, though, I was thinking about this today was a conservative that is very, very famous, very, very popular that always posts scantily clad, scantily dressed things is Livby Dunn.
01:11:22.000Most recently, Livbie Dunn took a picture with the now governor of Louisiana, and people were like totally just like going at her, like turning pistols at her online, hey, I can't believe I didn't know she was a conservative, she's a Republican.
01:11:39.000But she posts nothing but, you know, underdressed stuff.
01:11:44.000If she showed up to the event, people would go crazy, right?
01:11:48.000Like kind of like Danica Patrick thing, where if people knew, they would go crazy and she would probably get more of a pass because that's how she presents herself.
01:11:57.000So I think the point that you guys have made, which is a really good one, which is like, if you're okay with this being your brand, then okay, this is your brand.
01:12:04.000And like people are going to expect it from you kind of moving forward.
01:12:41.000Also, you know, many, a couple of years ago, four or five years ago, we did our event in Florida and I was distracted by doing literally this is a true story.
01:12:48.000And one of our sponsors, big sponsors, Bang Energy, comes up with these scantily dressed women and they start dancing and literally throwing money from stage.
01:13:09.000And, you know, that never happened again.
01:13:11.000But I remember the backlash we received from that.
01:13:13.000And a lot of it was warranted, honestly.
01:13:14.000Some of it was unfair because no one actually, no one actually asked the truth of the questions surrounding that.
01:13:21.000But here's the difference: those girls that were up on stage at the Turning Point USA event that were invited and not totally vetted, throwing money, they weren't conservative influencers that have Bible verses bios.
01:13:37.000I was the speaker immediately after that.
01:13:40.000So, and when you're at a turning point event, you know, when you're about to go up, you're backstage and you're, you know, so you're sort of in, you know, you're on deck.
01:13:53.000And at the time, so I had my wife with me there, which usually backstage is where I go up.
01:13:58.000And we had our oldest son with us there.
01:14:01.000And we were just like, look, so basically all the bang energy girls come off of stage and now they're back there.
01:14:21.000They were just like, I don't know, cheerleaders, like the kind of cheerleaders you'd see at, you know, like Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, right?
01:14:30.000Because that's not grooming towards some kind of sexually degenerate position that's completely heteronormative.
01:14:38.000The difference is, yes, Charlie, I was not also asking the bang energy girls to get up and give me a, you know, a soliloquy on modern monetary theory or something afterwards.
01:14:50.000So you have to be the same person in your Twitter bio where you're quoting Jeremiah 29, 7 while also not posing scant, you know, maybe in a scantily way.
01:15:17.000By the way, if you do not listen to, and I've threatened this, if you do not listen, and we are checking your recent history to every episode of Chronicles the Revolution, Blake Neff and I will be releasing a 2024 calendar.
01:16:11.000True or not, the perspective from women that like the right literally wants to go back to that, I do think is a political barrier that we have to deal with.
01:17:09.000And that's a, that's a conversation that we're getting into.
01:17:12.000But, you know, I think that, you know, we just had a conversation about this.
01:17:16.000Like I, when we were talking about Taylor Swift, I missed the Britney Spears, you know, I'm a slave for you days when there was like some femininity in Hollywood and there was like some pride in that where there was just like, it was just in your face, like, you know, that at least it was just in your face sexually.
01:17:36.000It's like pin up girl's territory, right?
01:19:32.000The tattoo tats that you have on inner lip or your, or if you get like prison tats in general, in any extremity, are the easiest ones to get rid of and are the ones that go away the fastest.
01:20:21.000Blake, do you have a thought defending the calendar?
01:20:26.000No, we've said enough of the calendar.
01:20:28.000If we want to just do a different topic, because we have five minutes left or it's spinning off from that, we were going to talk about, you know, we mentioned these are all influencers.
01:20:37.000So we were going to talk about YouTube families.
01:20:39.000Like, is it immoral that you're going to be talking about?
01:21:38.000They're like translating all of our episode into Spanish.
01:21:42.000And they're just like, oh, my gosh, you know, finally, U.S. conservatives get it right.
01:21:47.000And it's like sometimes that you do actually, and then Trump, of course, has been kind of playing around with this idea of, you know, I'm not going to be a dictator, but maybe just for one day, Sean, right?
01:21:57.000And just sort of normalizing this idea that sometimes we have to go outside the normal bounds of what is considered conservatism in order to save the Republic or just in order to save the nation.
01:22:09.000I think that's probably the biggest thought crime of the year.
01:22:12.000And the fact that when Trump says that, people cheer and people are sick and fed up because, by the way, it isn't the right that started this, right?
01:22:21.000It's like, if the left is breaking all the rules, why can't the right break at one or two in order to set things back to the way it was?
01:22:28.000The thought crime of the year that is no longer a thought crime is finally we could talk openly about the great replacement.