The Charlie Kirk Show - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 42 — Lawfare in Arizona? Was the A-Bomb Evil?

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Happy Thought Crime Saturday.

00:00:03.000 We discuss the latest indictments that have come down against one of our co-hosts, Tyler Boyer.

00:00:09.000 If you want to help him out, the best way to help him out is to support Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action at tpaction.com or tpusa.com.

00:00:17.000 Make sure you download the Rumble app and listen to us every single week.

00:00:20.000 Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show and email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:26.000 That is freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:29.000 Buckle up, everybody, here.

00:00:31.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:31.000 We go.

00:00:33.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:35.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:38.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:42.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:43.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:44.000 His spirit is love of this country.

00:00:46.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:51.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

00:00:52.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:01.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:04.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

00:01:14.000 Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:21.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:23.000 It's where I buy all of my gold.

00:01:25.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:30.000 Okay, everybody, happy thought crime Thursday.

00:01:33.000 You know who I am.

00:01:34.000 Blake is back with us in person.

00:01:36.000 He has healed himself thanks to the wellness company.

00:01:39.000 We have producer Andrew remote and Jack is in the most interesting place.

00:01:44.000 Jack, are you in Hungary?

00:01:46.000 That is true.

00:01:47.000 I am in Budapest, Hungary right now, believe it or not.

00:01:50.000 I'm told that there's an event happening.

00:01:52.000 What are you doing in Hungary?

00:01:55.000 It's the annual CPAC Hungary.

00:01:58.000 We've been doing them for about three years now.

00:02:00.000 Orban comes. 0.93

00:02:01.000 It's actually where Orban comes out and gives us all our marching orders for the year and tells us this is how we're going to fight George Soros on every continent so that he won't be able to get in anywhere.

00:02:11.000 Obviously, in the United States, we have a lot of work to do.

00:02:14.000 Do you feel safe walking the streets of Budapest at night?

00:02:17.000 I mean, is it a relatively safe city?

00:02:19.000 Is that a joke?

00:02:20.000 No, I mean, I'm saying like our American cities aren't safe.

00:02:24.000 So are you kidding me?

00:02:26.000 Like, like Tanya and I were out last night with some friends.

00:02:31.000 And I mean, you can walk across the city.

00:02:34.000 I've done it so many times here in Budapest, my fourth or fifth time here.

00:02:38.000 And I mean, it's completely safe.

00:02:42.000 You will have no issue.

00:02:43.000 I mean, it's a city, right?

00:02:45.000 I mean, there's cars and stuff.

00:02:46.000 But in terms of crime, in terms of the violence that you see, no, it just doesn't, it doesn't exist here.

00:02:51.000 It is not part of this world in any way.

00:02:53.000 This whole like, you know, comment from London mayor, oh, no, terrorism is part and parcel of living in a big city.

00:03:01.000 No, it's not.

00:03:02.000 Actually, it's not true.

00:03:03.000 It's a choice.

00:03:04.000 It is a choice that you can choose away from and you can decide to have clean cities and high trust societies and have law and order.

00:03:12.000 And it's very simple.

00:03:13.000 And it turns out that people actually really enjoy countries like this and people are actually happy.

00:03:19.000 And families are, by the way, Charlie, you'd appreciate the thing that mainly about Budapest is not so much the safety, it's the fact that there are playgrounds everywhere in this city.

00:03:28.000 Huge initiative by the government.

00:03:30.000 So you see playgrounds everywhere.

00:03:32.000 I'm talking like literally every street, every block has got a playground on it.

00:03:37.000 And then you just see giant families walking around everywhere.

00:03:40.000 Like four kids, five kids, six kids.

00:03:42.000 Every time you turn around, there's another one.

00:03:45.000 So let's get into it.

00:03:47.000 This is the big Arizona news.

00:03:50.000 Blake, what is going on here?

00:03:51.000 You have a lot of thoughts on this particular topic.

00:03:53.000 I did a whole hour on it.

00:03:55.000 Oh, yeah.

00:03:56.000 I'm going to come and glute really quick because we mentioned the crime thing.

00:04:00.000 Budapest has 1.7 million people.

00:04:03.000 Number of murders it had in 2020, that's the most recent year I can see, 13.

00:04:08.000 Are you kidding me?

00:04:08.000 And they're probably all like domestic disputes.

00:04:10.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:04:11.000 And then 13 murders.

00:04:14.000 Unbelievable.

00:04:15.000 My hometown of Sioux Falls once had 19 murders in a year.

00:04:18.000 Yeah.

00:04:18.000 Are you serious?

00:04:19.000 It's that 2020 was really bad.

00:04:21.000 Wow.

00:04:22.000 A lot of domestic disputes.

00:04:23.000 Oh, indeed, indeed.

00:04:24.000 Anyway, first topic, of course.

00:04:26.000 Yes.

00:04:26.000 Our good friend, Tyler Boyer, our thought crime co-host.

00:04:29.000 Yes, who's not here right now?

00:04:31.000 Who is not here right now?

00:04:33.000 Why isn't Tyler here?

00:04:35.000 The man is coming after our man, Tyler.

00:04:38.000 That's right.

00:04:38.000 Is he coming later?

00:04:40.000 I don't think he's coming later.

00:04:42.000 He has lots of lawyer meetings.

00:04:44.000 So, and if he were trying to go to Budapest, I think he'd be stopped at the airport.

00:04:48.000 So, Blake, what's going on here?

00:04:50.000 This is now national news.

00:04:52.000 Walk us, you know, break it down for us.

00:04:54.000 All right.

00:04:55.000 As you said, we lied with it this morning, talked about it for a whole hour.

00:04:58.000 We encourage all of you to go watch that episode.

00:05:00.000 But what's going on is we've already had several of these criminal cases in other states where they have targeted people connected with Trump's presidential campaign in 2020 and also people who served as alternative electoral college slates in 2020.

00:05:16.000 So they've done this in Nevada.

00:05:18.000 They've done it in Michigan.

00:05:19.000 They've done it to some, but not all of the electors in Georgia as part of the Fulton County case.

00:05:24.000 Now they're doing it here in Arizona.

00:05:26.000 So yesterday, Attorney General Mays, who was elected by what, 280 votes officially, elected.

00:05:34.000 She has a big mandate. 0.99

00:05:35.000 So she's gone mad with power now. 0.99

00:05:38.000 And she brought charges against 18 people.

00:05:40.000 Seven of them were members of Trump's team.

00:05:42.000 That includes Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, Boris Epstein, a few other people.

00:05:48.000 And then also the 11 people who were Trump's electors in the 2020 election.

00:05:53.000 That includes our friend Tyler.

00:05:55.000 And the claim is really outrageous.

00:05:58.000 There's a set of charges.

00:05:59.000 I've got the indictment in front of me.

00:06:02.000 Some of these charges are fraudulent schemes and artifices, forgery, tampering with a public record, and presentment of false instrument for filing, among other joyous possible crimes that are alleged.

00:06:20.000 And all of this is because they acted as alternative electors in 2020.

00:06:25.000 And as we explained this morning and as we explained on Twitter yesterday, it's just everything about this is truly just cataclysmically insane and deranged and evil.

00:06:36.000 I'm just going to be blunt about this because the claim of forgery, here's the deal.

00:06:42.000 In Arizona in December of 2020, they had certified that Joe Biden was the winner of the state, but Donald Trump's campaign was pursuing various lawsuits.

00:06:51.000 They were legal challenges.

00:06:52.000 They were legal challenges.

00:06:53.000 Yeah, they were challenging this.

00:06:54.000 They were making a case.

00:06:55.000 We have arguments that we can make.

00:06:57.000 Not everything is exhausted.

00:06:59.000 But what was widely believed within the Trump camp, but also by many Democrats, was the Electoral College convenes on this one date in December.

00:07:10.000 I believe it was the 16th or 19th.

00:07:12.000 Yeah, I think it was the 19th.

00:07:14.000 And they're like, well, they're going to convene and they have to cast their votes then.

00:07:18.000 And it was widely believed that due to the Electoral Count Act and the Constitution, how they interact, that you had to have electoral votes cast on that date, or there was just, there was no remedy.

00:07:29.000 So they could have later determined, oh, actually, Trump won the state and he would have, you should have gotten the electoral votes.

00:07:35.000 And they would say, well, you didn't have an electoral college slate convened to cast the ballots on the 19th.

00:07:41.000 Congress can't accept them.

00:07:43.000 At most, they could reject the Biden ones, but you couldn't cast them for Trump.

00:07:47.000 And so the thought was, well, we need to have people convene to cast these electoral votes so that if it later is decided in favor of Trump, we'll be able to do this.

00:07:56.000 That was transparently what this was for.

00:07:59.000 This is what they said it was for.

00:08:01.000 They all did it publicly.

00:08:02.000 They said this is what they were doing it for.

00:08:05.000 And there is precedent for this.

00:08:08.000 1960, Nixon versus Kennedy.

00:08:12.000 On election night, Nixon wins the state of Hawaii.

00:08:15.000 They certify it for Nixon, but they're disputing it.

00:08:20.000 He wins it by 100 and some votes.

00:08:20.000 It's very close.

00:08:22.000 They dispute it.

00:08:23.000 They say, actually, we think Kennedy won.

00:08:25.000 So the Democrats, they meet in December and they say they sign a sheet of paper.

00:08:30.000 The Hawaiian electors.

00:08:31.000 They say funny.

00:08:32.000 Let's go get it.

00:08:32.000 Let's just see if we can find a picture of them.

00:08:34.000 You know, we should.

00:08:34.000 Yeah.

00:08:35.000 I don't know if we have the electors.

00:08:36.000 I can find a picture of the actual thing they signed.

00:08:39.000 It's almost the exact same wording.

00:08:41.000 In fact, I literally think the Arizona electors copied the wording from them.

00:08:44.000 Absolutely.

00:08:45.000 Where they say, we, the duly elected and, you know, electors of the state of Hawaii are casting our three electoral votes for John F. Kennedy.

00:08:55.000 At the time they did this.

00:08:56.000 They were not the certified electors.

00:08:58.000 They were not the duly approved electors of the state.

00:09:00.000 They merely claimed to be.

00:09:04.000 The recount in Hawaii continued.

00:09:06.000 And it actually turned out they were, I don't know if we'll say they were objectively right, but it worked for them.

00:09:11.000 They concluded, actually, Kennedy won this state by about 115 votes, one of the closest state results ever.

00:09:17.000 And so they retracted the certification, submitted a new certification, and a judge said, all right, you can swap it out.

00:09:25.000 And the reason you can swap this out is because there is a Democratic elector that was there to have it put in.

00:09:31.000 And then they send it to Congress and Nixon, the vice president, says, all right, we're counting the Democrats of his own.

00:09:39.000 Same with Pence, like same sort of thing.

00:09:41.000 And that's how it was.

00:09:43.000 That was the precedent they had to go on.

00:09:45.000 That is what all the Republican alternate electors were looking towards when they did this.

00:09:50.000 And this is, as we pointed out, in November 2020, the day after the election.

00:09:56.000 Remember, the day after Trump was still ahead.

00:09:57.000 They hadn't had, well, the ballots hadn't been found yet.

00:10:00.000 And you have Van Jones and you have Lawrence Leslie, a Harvard law professor.

00:10:06.000 They come out and they write an article saying, we need to make sure all the ballots are counted.

00:10:10.000 And they're going to try to slow count this because Trump's ahead.

00:10:12.000 And so we need to make it so if it's still in dispute, when we get to that December day, both of them should convene and they should submit electoral college certifications.

00:10:21.000 Or not certifications.

00:10:23.000 They're certificates of.

00:10:25.000 And then that way we'll avoid it.

00:10:27.000 We'll just let it go until the latest possible date.

00:10:30.000 This is what a professor at Harvard law says to do. 0.95

00:10:34.000 And now, four years later, because they look at the polls and Donald Trump is winning in the state of Arizona and winning in the state of Nevada and winning in the state of Georgia and winning in many polls in all his restbelt states, they're thinking, oh crap, we need to get this guy in prison.

00:10:49.000 We need to throw more charges at all of his people. 0.97

00:10:51.000 Yes.

00:10:52.000 And oh, turns out all the stuff in Hawaii, oh, that was fraud.

00:10:55.000 That was illegal.

00:10:56.000 All that stuff Lawrence Leslie, the Harvard law professor, said to do, it's a crime.

00:10:59.000 This is outrageous.

00:11:00.000 This is unhinged. 1.00

00:11:01.000 This is the crap that you do. 1.00

00:11:03.000 I don't even want to say you do it in Russia. 1.00

00:11:05.000 You do this in like crappy African countries where they're just winging it the whole time and be like, oh, it turns out, you know, the opposition leader was a criminal the whole time. 1.00

00:11:13.000 I hate these people. 0.99

00:11:14.000 Oh, we do have a picture of these. 0.99

00:11:15.000 Okay, here it is.

00:11:16.000 Democrat attorney Robert G. Dodge instructs the Democrat electors from Hawaii on how to cast their electoral ballots in the 1960s look right there.

00:11:24.000 There's the Hawaiian electors.

00:11:26.000 Wow.

00:11:28.000 We got to tweet that out.

00:11:29.000 Andrew, we got to tweet that out.

00:11:31.000 We got to get something.

00:11:32.000 We got to tweet that out with the picture of the Arizona electors, like one by one with a whole thing on that.

00:11:38.000 So, Jack, you've been monitoring this on social media.

00:11:44.000 Say that again, Jack.

00:11:46.000 I said, what is that?

00:11:47.000 Like the queen of Hawaii or something?

00:11:49.000 It might be.

00:11:50.000 I mean, they got some.

00:11:51.000 Well, the real thing here, one of the electors was named Ernest Ooh.

00:11:56.000 U-U-U.

00:11:57.000 Ernest Ooh.

00:11:58.000 Hey, man, those Hawaiian names.

00:12:00.000 I love Hawaii.

00:12:01.000 It's a great place.

00:12:03.000 Unfortunately, it's become super, super lip, like insanely.

00:12:07.000 It's a welfare state built on tourism and government money.

00:12:09.000 But, Jack, you've been monitoring this from abroad.

00:12:13.000 Blake did a really good job of breaking this down.

00:12:15.000 This is completely outrageous.

00:12:19.000 It is a new level.

00:12:21.000 I mean, they keep on kind of outdoing themselves.

00:12:23.000 This is worse than any of the other electoral ones they've done in other states.

00:12:29.000 So it is actually.

00:12:31.000 And look, I gave Tyler a shout out from the stage this morning here in Budapest.

00:12:38.000 And I said, everybody thinks that it's all funny games.

00:12:43.000 And everybody thinks it's just a bunch of rhetoric until they start knocking on your door or knocking on your friends' doors.

00:12:49.000 And the question is, when are you going to put up and fight?

00:12:51.000 When are you going to stop, you know, tone policing people and saying, oh, that's a mean tweet?

00:12:56.000 That's a mean book title.

00:12:58.000 Meanwhile, suddenly you got people that are getting indicted for writing their name on a piece of paper and suddenly that makes them a criminal.

00:13:06.000 But as I was talking to more people about it here, and keep in mind, I'm in Eastern Europe, so I'm in the Eastern Bloc, the former Eastern Bloc.

00:13:06.000 It's nuts.

00:13:14.000 And people came coming up to me afterwards saying, Jack, this is exactly what used to happen around here.

00:13:19.000 They would find some little piece of paper that you signed.

00:13:23.000 They would find some paperwork that their judge had declared was, you know, not correct or something.

00:13:29.000 And all of a sudden, because your name on it, you were a criminal.

00:13:33.000 And it goes without saying.

00:13:34.000 We say it all the time here on Thought Crime.

00:13:37.000 We say it on our own programs.

00:13:39.000 But it's very obvious.

00:13:41.000 It's extremely obvious in this case that what they did was they decided that they were going to find the 12 people who were the most effective in Arizona politics or Tyler, who's so effective at the ballot initiative level when it comes to these chase the votes and chase the ballots nationwide, which Turning Point Action is doing.

00:14:00.000 And that's why they've decided to pursue something like this, especially on such a cockamamie case that's being brought by this AG who, as everyone said, has barely won her own election, which she herself, by the way, played a role in making sure that there were certain votes that were not certified in her own election, a huge role where she was preventing votes from being counted and things being certified, et cetera.

00:14:25.000 And so I would simply say that it shows you the stakes, right?

00:14:32.000 Everyone can see Trump on trial right now.

00:14:34.000 Everyone can see when they're going after people who are our own friends, where they're going after somebody who, you know, I was kind of, I think I flippantly said on the last podcast or maybe two weeks ago, the last thought crime, that, oh, it looks like none of us are in the news lately.

00:14:49.000 Like for once, none of us didn't drive a news cycle.

00:14:52.000 And now all of a sudden, you know, this happens to Tyler the next week.

00:14:55.000 And it's horrifying, but it's also clarifying to know that, like, you know, guys, if we lose, this is what's going to happen to all of us.

00:15:03.000 This is going to happen.

00:15:04.000 It's going to happen to Blake.

00:15:05.000 It's going to happen to Andrew.

00:15:06.000 It's going to happen to Charlie.

00:15:07.000 It's going to happen to me.

00:15:08.000 It's going to happen to our families.

00:15:10.000 It's going to happen to your businesses.

00:15:11.000 And so anybody out there who's listening, just keep in mind that once, you know, they will come for you.

00:15:18.000 They will come for you on whatever pretext they can get by.

00:15:22.000 Again, and as Blake has said, they built the infrastructure for this.

00:15:26.000 They built the judges.

00:15:28.000 We were talking about this in the pre-show, but they spent years building the institutions, building the legal bench for this.

00:15:34.000 And Charlie, I throw it back to you on this.

00:15:36.000 I mean, with the conservatives that we have on the bench and people say, you know, Trump got so many judges elected.

00:15:43.000 And obviously, that's the federal level, it's a state level.

00:15:46.000 I just don't see this level of fervor when I talk, when I look at the conservative, you know, legal appointees, it's just not there.

00:15:56.000 That would the same way you see with the Democrats, with the liberals.

00:15:58.000 You know, our guys are more likely to kind of stick their thumb up. 0.90

00:16:01.000 Or like Amy Coney Barrett, you know, she's basically like a pro-life liberal at this point.

00:16:05.000 And in terms of the way that she's been ruling on so many different things, and the question is, like, what is it going to take for us to achieve parity there?

00:16:13.000 So I was talking to a former attorney general yesterday that I won that name of a major state, and I was really fired up.

00:16:21.000 I called him and I said, so when are we going to start indicting them?

00:16:25.000 I mean, it's a position we say on this program because I sent him this and he said, well, we don't do that.

00:16:31.000 I said, okay, well, we're going to lose.

00:16:33.000 And you know what he said?

00:16:34.000 He said, I'd rather lose with honor than win messily.

00:16:39.000 I said, okay.

00:16:41.000 I said, thank you for being for being so clear.

00:16:44.000 I called another guy that was in a very high-level law enforcement and he said the exact same thing.

00:16:49.000 You know, me, Blake, when I get fired up, I just start texting and calling everybody.

00:16:52.000 It's kind of a problem.

00:16:54.000 Andrew knows that too.

00:16:55.000 I just, I can't stand mass injustice.

00:16:58.000 I can't stand seeing our beautiful country.

00:17:00.000 It's actually one of my favorite things about Charlie.

00:17:02.000 Yes.

00:17:02.000 Oh, thank you.

00:17:03.000 Yeah, Andrew.

00:17:04.000 I love it.

00:17:05.000 It's you have to be a person of agency and action.

00:17:05.000 Yeah.

00:17:10.000 Andrew, this is something that you and I deal with a lot because these people think so highly of themselves and the law and the administration, the administering of it.

00:17:20.000 And I want to just be clear.

00:17:22.000 There's only two ways this will go.

00:17:24.000 We win messily or we lose honorably.

00:17:28.000 Andrew, do you think that's a proper way to look at it?

00:17:33.000 Yeah, I mean, we talk about mutually assured destruction a lot.

00:17:36.000 And I think that there's a reason that we do that because they have to feel the pain.

00:17:42.000 They have to understand that they've unleashed Pandora's box.

00:17:45.000 And if you're not willing to press the red button, then they're just going to continue operating with impunity.

00:17:52.000 And this is where we get the boomer hate mail in, but a lot of this is generational.

00:17:58.000 Like if we had this conversation on a college campus with a lot of wingers, these young guys that come out and watch you table, Charlie, they'd be like, they would totally get it.

00:18:07.000 They would totally get that we are living in an America that is no longer fair, that's no longer decent from an institutional level.

00:18:16.000 And they would understand, like, yeah, you got to, you got to hit back.

00:18:19.000 I don't like it.

00:18:19.000 It's not good.

00:18:21.000 This is not who we are as a country or should be, but we have to hit back.

00:18:25.000 And yeah, but once you get to a certain age range, and I would say probably like 60 and older, they're not prepared to take that leap because it seems dirty.

00:18:36.000 You have to get your hands dirty.

00:18:37.000 You have to actually go against our nature.

00:18:40.000 And I think Vivek has actually talked about this: the conservative mindset is about, we're just wired differently than progressives.

00:18:50.000 We want to keep things beautiful.

00:18:52.000 We don't want to, we're not necessarily wired to build and restore and build from scratch, right?

00:18:59.000 The conservative, you want to conserve it.

00:19:02.000 But right now, we're in a time in our country where the institutions that we've long admired and loved and appreciated that have kept us free and safe, they're corrupted from the inside out.

00:19:11.000 And so you have to take radical, drastic measures.

00:19:14.000 And that means indict the left.

00:19:16.000 Well, and I just want to be clear.

00:19:17.000 I want Blake's thought on this.

00:19:18.000 There's a fair amount of delusion that exists, though, where they say, oh, it's not that bad.

00:19:23.000 It's really bad.

00:19:25.000 But I will say, when we say messy, I do think you want to be careful.

00:19:29.000 What I think you have to give the left credit for, I know this will make people mad.

00:19:33.000 You have to give them credit.

00:19:34.000 They are careful about laundering bad things they want to do through institutions that grant legitimacy.

00:19:41.000 Even worse than that, through institutions we honor.

00:19:45.000 Yes, that we honor.

00:19:46.000 And so what you do is you don't just throw off some indictment and just roll with it.

00:19:52.000 You make sure you get a lot of law professors to write briefs saying that, you know, if we interpret the law correctly, you can totally do this thing.

00:20:00.000 And you make sure that all the journalists are like writing articles about how this is a totally reasonable thing to do.

00:20:06.000 You build up the momentum that justifies this.

00:20:09.000 And then you make sure that your indictment is really detailed and you try to pick things that are most vulnerable.

00:20:15.000 To pick an example that's not Trump, you also pick cases where you can get away with it more.

00:20:20.000 The stuff they did to Alex Jones was really outrageous.

00:20:23.000 But what they did is they picked Alex Jones because they're like, well, he'll be a less sympathetic defendant.

00:20:28.000 And they assassinated him first in the middle.

00:20:29.000 And he'll, frankly, he's more likely to do things that will blow up in his face.

00:20:34.000 Do you know why Alex Jones lost his defamation case?

00:20:37.000 He lost by default.

00:20:39.000 He didn't even go to a jury.

00:20:41.000 He lost because he broke the rules so much.

00:20:43.000 The judge said, I'm just holding you to lose by default, which happens if you're in court and you act really recklessly.

00:20:49.000 And yet now we have this precedent that you can do all this bad crap to people on the right using defamation law because of this case that we lost through a bad setup.

00:20:58.000 So what I will say is, and then I'll let Andrew go, is don't just say, we don't want to have, you should indict the left, like throw a thing off this Friday so you can go on Fox News and talk about how you're such a great hero for conservatism.

00:21:11.000 What I think you want to do is you have to view this as a, you kind of need to invest in your own arms race.

00:21:19.000 Find red states.

00:21:20.000 You might have to say, state legislature, expand the size of your AG's office so they can have more lawyers who do prospective investigations, who send subpoenas so we can get like SPLC is headquartered in Alabama, Montgomery, Alabama.

00:21:34.000 So expand the size of your AG office, think, well, there's a lot of suspicious stuff about the SPLC.

00:21:38.000 Didn't they have a sex scandal that was going to get investigated and then it just never was?

00:21:42.000 They just lied about it.

00:21:43.000 Democrats used to call them out.

00:21:44.000 Democrats would call them out.

00:21:44.000 Yes.

00:21:45.000 So why don't we start subpoenaing everything the SPLC has ever done and all their communications?

00:21:49.000 And who knows?

00:21:50.000 Maybe we'll find something.

00:21:51.000 Maybe we could expand our RICO laws and say, oh, you're doing all this stuff to enable people who are doing shady stuff at our border that helps illegals come here. 0.77

00:21:59.000 Yeah, we're deciding that that's actually a deliberate abetment of criminal behavior at the border.

00:22:04.000 And we're going to indict you for that.

00:22:06.000 You have to think hard about it and then execute on it.

00:22:10.000 And if you do it carefully, it's way stronger than if you just do a stunt.

00:22:14.000 I agree.

00:22:15.000 It shouldn't be a stunt, but it needs to be a strategy.

00:22:17.000 Andrew, your thoughts?

00:22:19.000 Well, that's exactly.

00:22:20.000 I mean, I don't think when I say indict the left, there is a built-in assumption.

00:22:24.000 And it's worth articulating what you just said, Blake.

00:22:26.000 I mean, I agree with everything.

00:22:28.000 But the built-in assumption is that there is vast amounts of criminality that is left unprosecuted, uninvestigated from left-wing actors, right?

00:22:39.000 And the amount of collusion between this White House and different prosecutors around the country is something I would love to get involved with.

00:22:46.000 I mean, we had, Charlie, you had that op-ed in the Federalists that went mega viral and it basically presented five or six different options where you could start.

00:22:57.000 One of the things that we struggle with, to your point, Blank, is, and that op-ed, by the way, was an effort to do exactly what you're talking about.

00:23:06.000 It was saying, hey, we have to start thinking about this.

00:23:09.000 It was like a trial balloon.

00:23:10.000 Get this idea into the jet stream on the right.

00:23:14.000 But then here is the problem with what you just said.

00:23:18.000 And I agree with everything you just said.

00:23:20.000 We have to then get it institutionally supported, right?

00:23:23.000 So then you start building out into the different wings of your party apparatus, the different groups that might be around.

00:23:32.000 We don't have that type of institutional support.

00:23:34.000 And one of our main AG's office is Hamstrung, namely Texas, because he needs so much stuff to be referred to him or handed to him.

00:23:44.000 Local PAs have so much more power in Texas, and that's our largest Republican attorney general office, right?

00:23:51.000 So what I just put meat on the bones, because I think you think deeply about these things, take a real life example.

00:23:59.000 How would you see it gaining momentum and support the right way, given the limitations of right-wing institutions in America right now?

00:24:06.000 Well, you have to want it, but no, I mean, it has to first be the AG's office is now the new battleground.

00:24:13.000 Letitia James, AG, Chris James, AG, Chris James, Chris Mays, Dana Nessel in Michigan, a state-based attorney general.

00:24:23.000 So you make a list of 10 major Democrat organizations the same way that they isolated the NRA, and then you start investigating.

00:24:31.000 Investigating requires nothing.

00:24:33.000 You just send subpoenas.

00:24:34.000 They do this all the time, right?

00:24:35.000 Yeah.

00:24:35.000 The NRA one, especially, there is, I mean, the thing is, New York is a big state, has a lot of money.

00:24:41.000 They can have a huge AG's office.

00:24:42.000 I think they have over a thousand attorneys in it, some insane number like that.

00:24:46.000 So it's as large as a major corporate law firm.

00:24:49.000 And they have a lot of lawyers they can make.

00:24:50.000 New York's got a million of them.

00:24:52.000 And what they did is they created a unit inside the New York AG's office that was essentially, we need to kill the NRA.

00:24:59.000 And they even interface this with the left.

00:25:01.000 Mayor Bloomberg, he literally has funded like news outlets whose purpose is to write anti-gun stories so that the media can have these anti-gun stories that you can then cite in legal briefings and all this.

00:25:13.000 It's a whole operation.

00:25:15.000 And they had this for years.

00:25:16.000 This is not the stuff they've done against the NRA that we talk about now is because of cases they filed in 2020 based on investigations they started in 2015.

00:25:27.000 A decade-long operation.

00:25:29.000 And I think that's the sort of commitment to a specific cause that the right has to learn to copy from.

00:25:36.000 You have to, you know, it's kind of the old thing that civilization is planting a tree you'll never sit in the shade of.

00:25:42.000 It's political effectiveness is, you know, beginning the crusade that you won't be able to take credit for on the news later.

00:25:49.000 I like that.

00:25:50.000 Well, that's that in Missouri.

00:25:50.000 Jack.

00:25:52.000 Sorry, go ahead, Jack.

00:25:54.000 No, I could say I actually comment on that because it's very something similar to what Orban has done here in Hungary.

00:26:01.000 So he was out of power for a couple of years when he wasn't prime minister.

00:26:05.000 And during that time, what he did was, and people know the backstory, of course, Orban basically ran George Soros out of Hungary and had all of the Soros organizations were here in Hungary before they were anywhere else.

00:26:20.000 And his whole rise of power in Hungary was based around him just railing against George Soros from taking over the country and getting rid of him.

00:26:30.000 But when he was out of the prime ministership for a period before his third term, I believe, if I have that right, what he did is he would go around and he started building the conservative ecosystem all around the country.

00:26:45.000 And so he just built these organizations like what Blake is talking about here.

00:26:49.000 And he would go to donors and say, hey, we need an organization that's going to do this.

00:26:54.000 And they're going to be focused on like family issues.

00:26:56.000 And this is the department.

00:26:58.000 This is the organization that does on crime.

00:27:00.000 This is our media network.

00:27:01.000 This is our just whatever it was, whatever the issue was, there was going to be an organization for it.

00:27:06.000 So that when he came back into the prime ministership, all of those organizations or like the top people from those organizations were able to just go one over.

00:27:15.000 And suddenly now they're staffing the government's administration.

00:27:19.000 Now, and it's been incredibly effective.

00:27:22.000 And this is what, and you're starting to see this in nascent stages.

00:27:25.000 Obviously, you know, Turning Point and others, Claremont Institute are examples of this, but we just don't have enough of it yet in the U.S. to compete with what the left has.

00:27:36.000 And we're starting to build it.

00:27:38.000 Now, fortunately, we have like truth on our side and things like that that are very helpful for us.

00:27:42.000 But just to give another example in Europe, so in Poland, the PIS, the Law and Justice Party, just got out of power in their prime ministership.

00:27:50.000 And the problem was they didn't build any.

00:27:53.000 of those organizations when they were in power.

00:27:55.000 So now they're out of power.

00:27:57.000 They have like nothing.

00:27:58.000 They have no infrastructure.

00:28:00.000 They lost all their TV networks.

00:28:01.000 They lost all their online presence.

00:28:03.000 They are like zeroed out completely.

00:28:06.000 And the left just went in and took over everything on the entire airwaves.

00:28:10.000 And they're just in an absolute crisis point right now because it's like, what do we do since we don't have any of those organizations?

00:28:17.000 And so this is why it's kind of revolutionary in a sense, counter-revolutionary, I guess, if you look at it this way, to have organizations like Turning Point.

00:28:27.000 And oh, by the way, Turning Point Action, what just happened to their head?

00:28:30.000 He just got they're trying to slow down our political vehicle.

00:28:30.000 Oh, right.

00:28:33.000 That's part of this.

00:28:34.000 How terrifying.

00:28:34.000 Okay.

00:28:35.000 And by the way, I'm not just speculating it.

00:28:36.000 Literally, Vaughn Hillard goes on MSNBC and out of all the different people he could talk about, Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, he isolates Tyler Boyer on the indictment and then mentions Charlie Kirk Turning Point.

00:28:50.000 We have that clue.

00:28:51.000 No, it's very important.

00:28:52.000 I want to talk about wellness company and I want to play that clip really quick.

00:28:52.000 Can you tell me what?

00:28:55.000 It's super powerful.

00:28:56.000 134.

00:28:57.000 No, and because he didn't have to, I mean, again, I get along with Vaughn.

00:29:00.000 I think, Andrew, you do too.

00:29:00.000 He's like the Mr. Arizona of NBC News.

00:29:03.000 He's always treated us very factually and fairly.

00:29:06.000 But I guarantee you, he knew what he was doing.

00:29:08.000 He was a super left-wing audience.

00:29:09.000 He's like, oh, guys, no, no, no, you don't understand.

00:29:11.000 This is a way to like stop the political momentum, right?

00:29:14.000 You don't understand.

00:29:15.000 Here we go.

00:29:16.000 All right.

00:29:17.000 Wellness company.

00:29:18.000 Blake's doing a lot better.

00:29:19.000 Let's get Blake on camera.

00:29:20.000 Blake was really sick.

00:29:21.000 In fact, he was so sick, I made him quarantine.

00:29:23.000 He's doing a lot better.

00:29:24.000 Thanks to the wellness company.

00:29:25.000 Wellness Company Contagion Emergency Kit.

00:29:27.000 I was just throwing antibiotics at him.

00:29:31.000 Eats all the viruses.

00:29:32.000 Yeah.

00:29:33.000 No, it doesn't.

00:29:34.000 I'm sorry.

00:29:35.000 That's this info.

00:29:37.000 Do not take antibiotics if you have.

00:29:40.000 There are antibiotics in this if you need it.

00:29:41.000 It's one of its kind.

00:29:42.000 The prescription emergency kit from the wellness company provides you with a carefully selected assourcement of effective medications for bird flu, COVID-19, and other respiratory illnesses, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, zpac, Tamiflu, budicicin, budicicinide, I don't know what that is, along with a nebulizer.

00:29:58.000 So you can rest easy knowing that you have emergency meds on hand, along with a guidebook for safe use.

00:30:04.000 So check it out right now.

00:30:05.000 It is TWC.health slash CJ.

00:30:08.000 Use promo code CJ to save $30 off plus free shipping at checkout.

00:30:11.000 That is TWC.health slash CJ.

00:30:14.000 U.S. scientists, as you well know, worked with Chinese scientists to make an infectious strain more deadly of bird flu. 0.98

00:30:20.000 And the University of Wisconsin is working on gain of function research, hitting headlines.

00:30:24.000 Scientists claim it could be 100 times more deadly than COVID.

00:30:27.000 Well, make sure that you guys have the things that you need to protect yourself and your family.

00:30:31.000 TWC.health slash CJ.

00:30:33.000 Promo code CJ saves you $30 at checkout.

00:30:35.000 Okay, let's play cut 134.

00:30:37.000 Let's just use Tyler Boyer as an example.

00:30:37.000 Right.

00:30:40.000 Tyler Boyer is not going to be a household name to most folks, but he is the RNC committee man from Arizona.

00:30:46.000 So he is the one that at every RNC meeting, winter meeting, summer meeting, he's the one that has a vote for Arizona, picks the chair of the party, for example.

00:30:56.000 He is the person who is not only one of these fake electors indicted, but also RNC committee man, but he's also the chief operating officer of Turning Point USA, which is the Charlie Kirk organization, the Trump-aligned organization that has garnered millions of dollars and has effectively taken over the Arizona Republican Party in recent years.

00:31:18.000 Tyler Boy or Charlie Kirk.

00:31:20.000 They're close with the likes of Carrie Lake, Abe Hamiday, who was the opponent to Chris Mays and the Attorney General's race in 2022 and was an election denier.

00:31:31.000 Okay, so that was what we just have been covering.

00:31:34.000 They're afraid of us, man.

00:31:35.000 Oh, they're afraid of us.

00:31:36.000 100%.

00:31:37.000 Delikes.

00:31:38.000 Well, but I just, again, I just want to, I just, I just want to say one thing.

00:31:42.000 It's easy for kind of me to go do the show and be like, oh, it's all about turning point.

00:31:47.000 And then I watched MSNBC last night and I'm like, okay, it's kind of all about turning point.

00:31:51.000 It's kind of about turning point.

00:31:52.000 Like, he didn't have to.

00:31:53.000 If you say turning point's important, you know, you're, you're talking your book, but if they're when they say turning points important, okay, all right.

00:31:59.000 All right.

00:32:00.000 I mean, it's like, I didn't, I was literally as this, as the indictment dropped, you know, supporting Tyler, called up Tyler.

00:32:06.000 He's like, we got your back whole thing.

00:32:07.000 You know, we'll take your legal fees, all the whole thing.

00:32:10.000 And I turn on MSNBC, boom, Vaughnson's talking there.

00:32:13.000 I was like, okay.

00:32:14.000 All right.

00:32:15.000 Speaking of atom bombs, where we just went through an atom bomb in Arizona of an indictment, Tucker Carlson has really started an incredible debate on the right.

00:32:26.000 Do we have Tucker's interview with Joe to kind of clip 77?

00:32:31.000 Okay, just this is Tucker Carlson on the Joe Rogan program.

00:32:34.000 I liked this interview a lot.

00:32:36.000 I thought there were some topics that Tucker might have, you know, that are taken out of context when you talk about.

00:32:42.000 I personally thought the interview is great.

00:32:44.000 And before I get into 77, there's a neighbor of mine who is not yet right-wing.

00:32:48.000 He stopped me.

00:32:49.000 He said, Charlie, I've listened to the Rogan Tucker interview three times.

00:32:52.000 He's like, I'm voting for Trump.

00:32:54.000 Trump wasn't even really mentioned in this.

00:32:54.000 And I was like, really?

00:32:56.000 And he's like, no, no, no, my eyes are open.

00:32:58.000 So I just want everyone to know that Tucker's impact on this interview, at least anecdotally on the micro, has really been impactful, especially when he's talking about the populist stuff.

00:33:06.000 Let's play Cut 77.

00:33:08.000 Well, I love, by the way, that people on my side, I'll just say, I'll just admit it.

00:33:13.000 On the right, you know, have spent the last 80 years defending dropping nuclear weapons on civilians.

00:33:19.000 Like, are you joking?

00:33:21.000 Right.

00:33:21.000 That's just like prima facie evil.

00:33:24.000 If you can't, well, if we hadn't done that, then this, that, the other thing, that was actually a great savings of life.

00:33:29.000 No, it's wrong to drop nuclear weapons on people.

00:33:31.000 And if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil.

00:33:36.000 Like, it's not a tough one, right?

00:33:38.000 It's not a hard call for you.

00:33:39.000 It's not a hard call for me.

00:33:40.000 So let me start this off.

00:33:42.000 I have always found a moral problem with dropping the atom bombs plural on Japan. 1.00

00:33:47.000 I have always been argued from authority from people.

00:33:49.000 Charlie, you don't understand.

00:33:50.000 It would have killed a lot of millions of Americans.

00:33:52.000 I just had a moral problem with indiscriminate mass killing.

00:33:56.000 And I'm glad this discussion is happening.

00:33:58.000 I can't defend it as well as most people.

00:34:01.000 So I was actually shocked.

00:34:02.000 Blake picked this topic and I was like, okay, he's probably going to be an atom bomb defender, but you're anti.

00:34:08.000 And that actually comforts me because I've always had this opinion.

00:34:11.000 I just failed to believe that we in America have to resort to, I don't want to say genocide, but like just it's it's an interesting thing and I do want to get into it.

00:34:21.000 I just to set the stage because this is starting a big debate.

00:34:24.000 Jeremy Boring at the Daily Wire.

00:34:26.000 Yes.

00:34:26.000 He had a tweet that 6 million people viewed where he says in response to what Tucker did that you hate America essentially.

00:34:33.000 People, he talked about other stuff, people who deny the moon landing or suggest America is evil for its use of atomic weapons against Imperial Japan.

00:34:42.000 Says some of the stuff, but people who say just America is bad for using A-bombs actually hate.

00:34:47.000 So let me just defend Jeremy.

00:34:49.000 I like Jeremy a lot.

00:34:50.000 I don't think he meant what he wrote in the sense.

00:34:52.000 I think he meant that some people that say these things hate the country.

00:34:55.000 Oh, for sure.

00:34:56.000 There are tweets.

00:34:56.000 I think that's what he meant.

00:34:57.000 There are twelve.

00:34:57.000 But that's not what the tweet said.

00:34:59.000 I will say, I think the Adam bomb is evil and I love America. 1.00

00:35:01.000 There are plenty of people who say the A-bomb is bad because they think America is bad.

00:35:05.000 So anything America does.

00:35:06.000 I think that's what Jeremy meant, but that's not what he wrote.

00:35:08.000 That's fair.

00:35:09.000 That's very fair.

00:35:10.000 But I do think it's very common to have the opposite, which is America's a good country and America did the A-bombs. 0.98

00:35:18.000 So therefore, that was a good thing because America's a good country.

00:35:20.000 And World War II was a good war. 1.00

00:35:22.000 Obviously, we should have been fighting Japan. 1.00

00:35:23.000 They bombed us. 0.92

00:35:24.000 They were a reprehensible country.

00:35:26.000 But the question itself is very interesting because people will argue, as they say, that if we didn't use it, more Americans would have died.

00:35:33.000 The war would have gone on longer.

00:35:35.000 We would have had to invade Japan. 0.88

00:35:37.000 And I think what is the interesting pill to swallow is even if that was true, I think it's still wrong to do it.

00:35:46.000 And what it is, is it's as Tucker says, what was the A-bomb?

00:35:50.000 We're taking this insanely powerful weapon and we're just deploying it against a city, a city that is by nature overwhelmingly civilians, you know, just old people, women, children, non-combatants of all sort, and just deploying it against a city. 0.64

00:36:07.000 And you can make that argument.

00:36:09.000 You can say under a utilitarian calculus that, you know, that that's okay.

00:36:14.000 But that sort of calculus is fundamentally a, like, it's a modernist view and it's like a, it's kind of a left-wing view.

00:36:22.000 Every group of people who have done atrocities in history have said that it is justified because in the long run, the greater good for the greater number of people justifies us doing this outrageous thing.

00:36:34.000 And what I would say is when you look at periods of our history, which were, I would say, more informed by Christian principle, you would not do this.

00:36:42.000 Consider General Sherman, March to the Sea, famous act of total war.

00:36:47.000 General Sherman's guidelines say, he says, okay, here's what you do.

00:36:51.000 You take enough food that a person can live on to survive and you give it to those people.

00:36:56.000 You take all the extra and you destroy it.

00:36:59.000 You burn warehouses and big buildings.

00:37:01.000 You rip up railroads.

00:37:02.000 Don't burn down anyone's homes.

00:37:04.000 So he's like, is that what he did?

00:37:06.000 Yeah.

00:37:06.000 Well, I don't know how perfect it was in practice.

00:37:08.000 I did once, I'm not making this up.

00:37:10.000 I once looked at the census for Georgia in 1860 and 1870.

00:37:15.000 And I looked at all the counties that Sherman walked through.

00:37:18.000 And they all had higher populations in 1870.

00:37:21.000 So he definitely didn't depopulate them, I will say.

00:37:25.000 And you see this, you know, in the American Revolution, there are not, there are a few atrocities, but there are just not mass civilian killings.

00:37:32.000 The British do not obliterate Boston and kill everyone in it, even when they're occupying the city.

00:37:39.000 And in the Civil War, there are atrocities occasionally, but we do not obliterate Richmond.

00:37:44.000 We do not just send cavalrymen riding through the South and just kill everyone they see.

00:37:50.000 And one of the developments you see of the 20th century is total war, which is anyone who's in the opposing country is fair game to be killed for any reason because they're part of the opposing country.

00:38:02.000 And the powers that embrace this are Nazi Germany, are the Soviet Union. 0.57

00:38:07.000 It is, and then the people who most sympathize with that are the people in America who sympathize with those ideologies.

00:38:15.000 And it is fundamentally against Christian principle to say, I think it's St. Paul says, you know, woe to those who say, let us do evil, that good may result from it.

00:38:23.000 Also in Isaiah 2.

00:38:25.000 And so you just, like Tucker says, you just don't do that.

00:38:25.000 Yeah.

00:38:29.000 And so I just, I want to get other people in on this really quick, but Blake, as quickly as you can, what do you say to the argument that people are emailing us in and will also email us in?

00:38:37.000 Japan would have never stopped fighting unless they were faced with a world-ending situation. 0.90

00:38:42.000 They don't surrender.

00:38:43.000 They had incredible resolve.

00:38:44.000 We would have had to put in millions of American troops.

00:38:48.000 Hundreds of thousands would have died.

00:38:49.000 And no one's defending the atom bomb as being a great thing, but it was like a necessary tragedy to end what would have been even more bloody for all people involved.

00:38:59.000 At that point, you can get into these details on it.

00:39:02.000 And that gets into additional moral questions.

00:39:04.000 For example, Japan was putting out feelers where they say, we want to surrender, but we just want a guarantee that like we won't hang the emperor because he's sacred.

00:39:13.000 And we were saying, no, it has to be unconditional.

00:39:16.000 And that was the big breakpoint.

00:39:18.000 And then in the end, we kept the emperor anyway.

00:39:20.000 So we had the war go on a longer length of time.

00:39:22.000 I never knew that.

00:39:23.000 So they were teasing out a surrender before the bomb.

00:39:26.000 Yes.

00:39:26.000 Like there was, there were attempts at negotiation, and we were saying unconditional only.

00:39:30.000 That was a major thing we insisted for both Germany and Japan.

00:39:33.000 And there were reasons to do this.

00:39:36.000 But it is noteworthy that the biggest sticking point is something we didn't actually insist upon in the end.

00:39:42.000 I think you could also just point out there are steps between use the atom bomb not at all and use it on a city with 300,000 people in it.

00:39:51.000 For example, what if we just said, hey, Japan, go look at Tokyo Bay tomorrow and then we drop the atom bomb in Tokyo, Tokyo. 0.64

00:39:59.000 I've always thought that.

00:40:00.000 Why didn't we bomb an island in South Africa?

00:40:01.000 Yeah, or truck is a Japanese fortress.

00:40:04.000 And we could say, here's a camera, here's your fortress on truck. 0.53

00:40:07.000 Boom, blow it up.

00:40:08.000 That was a purely military installation.

00:40:10.000 Yeah, but then I guess their argument.

00:40:12.000 Yeah, Jack, do you want to chime in on this?

00:40:14.000 Well, I'll just play a question before I chime in.

00:40:16.000 But Blake, what credence do you give?

00:40:19.000 I've heard this argument more recently that the reason for the A-bombs was sort of meant as a, and I don't know how historical this is, but there may have been some writing about it at the time, that it was sort of meant as a message, not necessarily to Japan, but actually a message to the Soviets.

00:40:39.000 So people have to keep in mind, the Soviet Union has just occupied Japanese-controlled Manchuria on the Chinese mainland at this point and was threatening an invasion of the Japanese home islands.

00:40:51.000 So obviously the Japanese home islands were never invaded.

00:40:54.000 The U.S. had done the island hopping throughout the South Pacific with the Huya U.S. Navy. 0.88

00:40:59.000 And so there's this like theory, and I don't even know how historical it is, but there's a theory that because the Cold War, people could realize that sort of like World War II was ending and the new competition was going to be between the U.S. and the Soviets.

00:41:16.000 So that this becomes then a message to the Soviets. 0.81

00:41:20.000 I think that's an example of where you get like liberal arguments against the bomb because it's sort of an after-the-fact thing.

00:41:26.000 I've looked at it.

00:41:27.000 I don't believe there's strong evidence.

00:41:29.000 This is what motivated it.

00:41:31.000 This is after the fact.

00:41:32.000 A lot of people who sympathize with the Soviet Union and don't like America will say, America did this bad thing just because they hated the Soviets and had to send a message to the Soviets.

00:41:41.000 Well, we're also not inditing the intentions here.

00:41:44.000 I think we wanted to win the war.

00:41:45.000 And the real, if you look at the reasons they did it, like what Truman himself said is he said, I am the commander in a war.

00:41:52.000 We developed a weapon to win that war, and it would be insane for me not to use that weapon.

00:41:56.000 And Truman's a very straightforward guy and everything you can read about him, plain speaking Missouri guy.

00:42:02.000 I think it, I think he's basically telling the truth.

00:42:05.000 We made a weapon. 0.63

00:42:06.000 We're already bombing Japanese cities. 1.00

00:42:08.000 That's a whole additional issue.

00:42:10.000 So why would I not use this other weapon that could help us end the war? 0.88

00:42:13.000 Well, there was a third, too.

00:42:14.000 There was a third.

00:42:15.000 We would have to.

00:42:16.000 There would have been a delay after that.

00:42:18.000 So here, here is what I wanted to weigh in on.

00:42:21.000 And it's kind of what you just mentioned there.

00:42:25.000 This was not, so a lot of people think that the A-bomb, because it is the first and only time, like the two times, that the A-bomb or any type of nuclear weapon was used in warfare.

00:42:36.000 True, but this also wasn't the only time that cities were indiscriminately bombed through the use of strategic or carpet bombing in World War II.

00:42:47.000 Certainly not by the Allies who conducted carpet bombing all over Europe.

00:42:52.000 But even, of course, the Germans were bombing the heck out of London too. 0.85

00:42:55.000 So indiscriminate bombing was something that had already gone on to quite an extent up to this point.

00:43:01.000 And that is not to get into the morality of that, but I am pointing out that this isn't the first time that it was done.

00:43:07.000 Andrew, where do you fall on this?

00:43:09.000 Yeah, I mean, what Jack just said factors into my thinking, I think, a lot.

00:43:14.000 I think in general, I think it's a really bad moral conundrum to get stuck in where you're defending the use of nuclear weapons in an armed conflict on civilians.

00:43:25.000 I mean, think about it.

00:43:26.000 It was a quarter of a million people upwards, mostly civilians, died in Japan.

00:43:32.000 And that's incredible if you think about it, a quarter of a million people.

00:43:38.000 And so I think that's terrible, but I've always thought of it as like the only reason it happened is because it was the first time.

00:43:45.000 You know, when I think about it historically, it's like, oh, it's only been used once.

00:43:49.000 Well, it sort of won't happen again.

00:43:52.000 It was as a kid, I remember thinking because, you know, they just got the weapon, right?

00:43:57.000 It was the, it had only been around for a very short amount of time, and they used it once, and we realized the horror and the tragedy of it won't be used again.

00:44:07.000 So I sort of give them a little bit of pass because of the moment in history it happened.

00:44:12.000 But to Jack's point, I mean, Dresden, there was 25,000 civilians were killed in the Dresden bombings, right?

00:44:20.000 So if you just think about the fact that this was going on and it was going both ways, and I think if you put yourself in that moment of time and you realize just how brutal the enemy was, I'm sure there was an emotion.

00:44:35.000 You know, humans are emotional, right?

00:44:37.000 So there's a place where you can say rationally killing civilians is bad.

00:44:40.000 Totally agree, 100%.

00:44:42.000 But you're coming at the end of a long and bloody conflict where Axis powers have tried to take over the world and you're wanting to send a really big signal, don't try this again. 0.96

00:44:53.000 We are more powerful than you. 0.84

00:44:55.000 We will destroy you. 0.74

00:44:56.000 And you've been doing this to us. 0.98

00:44:57.000 We have hundreds of thousands of dead soldiers, millions on the Allied side.

00:45:02.000 And you get to the end of that and your emotions are frayed.

00:45:05.000 Your emotional calculus is different.

00:45:08.000 So in the moment, I have some, historically, I have some grace on that moment, but I think the lesson should be, you know, let's not do this again.

00:45:18.000 This is actually a morally problematic thing to do.

00:45:23.000 And let's not get there again.

00:45:25.000 I mean, I think that's kind of where I net out on it.

00:45:27.000 I have some grace on the men and women that made that decision.

00:45:30.000 Well, hold on.

00:45:31.000 I want to ask a question though, really quick.

00:45:32.000 And I need to talk about Noble Gold Investments.

00:45:34.000 I want to talk about how Tucker connected all the dots, though.

00:45:38.000 Because he didn't just bring it up flippantly.

00:45:40.000 He connected the atom bomb as the like the almost the beginning of the New Testament of the American story.

00:45:49.000 That was his argument that it made us seem that we are gods.

00:45:53.000 I think that's being lost in the conversation. 0.89

00:45:55.000 More of, do you hate the country or not, which I think is silly.

00:45:57.000 Really quick, Noble Gold Investments.

00:45:59.000 And I want Jack's thought on that.

00:46:00.000 Check out noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:46:03.000 It is a wonderful, wonderful company.

00:46:06.000 I buy all of my gold there.

00:46:07.000 If investing feels overwhelming right now, I understand it can be so complicated.

00:46:11.000 Your money is losing value in the bank every day.

00:46:15.000 So if it's stressing you out and driving you nuts, why not invest smarter with Noble Gold Investments?

00:46:18.000 Noble Gold Investments, American-based experts will show you how to set and forget your IRA or 401k.

00:46:23.000 No hassle, no call centers.

00:46:25.000 This month, Noble Gold Investments is giving a free quarter ounce gold standard coin with each qualifying IRA investment.

00:46:30.000 Visit noblegoldinvestments.com to claim your gold coin.

00:46:33.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:46:35.000 So check it out, noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:46:37.000 No hassle, no call centers.

00:46:38.000 You'll get a dedicated professional aligned assigned just to you, noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:46:43.000 So Jack, I want to ask the question here.

00:46:45.000 What do you think of Tucker's thought here?

00:46:47.000 We said that created in the greatest generation and then boomers a hubris of pride. 0.98

00:46:56.000 Once we dropped the bomb, we felt as if we were like gods.

00:47:00.000 Is that a good summary of Tucker's argument, Blake?

00:47:02.000 He said that repeatedly.

00:47:04.000 Jack, you heard that as well.

00:47:05.000 Jack Pesobic, your thoughts?

00:47:07.000 Yeah, it's a strong argument.

00:47:10.000 I don't know.

00:47:11.000 I've never really thought of it that way.

00:47:13.000 And Blake and I have done podcasts about sort of the 60s and how the 60s came about.

00:47:20.000 And you're right, actually.

00:47:21.000 There is a huge amount, and Tucker's right, I should say, there's a huge amount of hubris that comes about because of them.

00:47:27.000 But I would also say that keep in mind that it's also the space race going on at this time.

00:47:34.000 You're also talking about in the 50s and then even more so into the 60s, you have the height of the Cold War because once the Rosenbergs steal the bomb through the theft of the Manhattan Project, they are then duly executed for doing so, giving it to the Soviet Union. 0.91

00:47:50.000 That suddenly one, because this goes away very quickly, is what I'm saying.

00:47:55.000 So this idea, if there was a level of hubris because of it, it goes away quickly because the Soviets get the bomb. 0.77

00:48:00.000 And then so there becomes this like paranoia as well about who's got the bomb, who's going to get the bomb next, and then when is the bomb going to come?

00:48:07.000 And this is where you get like the, you know, the under the table, you know, missile drills and schools and things like that.

00:48:12.000 So it's, it's an interesting argument.

00:48:16.000 I don't know how much I agree with it.

00:48:18.000 Certainly there's a lot of hubris there.

00:48:20.000 There's no question about that.

00:48:21.000 But there's also a lot of paranoia as well.

00:48:23.000 And that I think bleeds into a lot of the Cold War.

00:48:26.000 It would kind of be my response to all of it.

00:48:29.000 And, you know, really, the one interesting piece of it, and I'll just say this from having, you know, lived in Asia for so many years, is that what's interesting is that when I'm in Japan and, you know, speaking as American, when I'm there, the only time I ever really hear this come up, anything about the atomic bomb, and sure, they have memorials to it.

00:48:48.000 You can go, and it's more about just the horror of living through it, but you don't really face any animosity as an American.

00:48:55.000 Number one, I mean, if you go to Japan, you're just not going to see anyone having an issue with you being an American, even though, yes, we are the country that bombed Japan. 0.77

00:49:04.000 But then, number two, the only place you will ever hear it from are like the extreme, like ultra-nationalist, like bring back the emperor, kind of, you know, get the United States bases out of Japan, those guys who are like a very small sliver of Japanese society.

00:49:20.000 And so, it's what's interesting to me is that we'll tie ourselves in knots over this, whereas the Japanese really do kind of by and large, and you know, not to speak for the Japanese, but in my experience there, it seems they really do just view it as an act as excuse me, as Andrew was just saying, who's filling in for our dear friend Tyler, just an act of war that was done through the course of the war and it happened and it was a long time ago, and that's it.

00:49:48.000 Yeah, I just close this topic with how Blake said it.

00:49:51.000 I refuse to believe that there were no other creative options that we could have employed.

00:49:56.000 We were in the driver's seat.

00:49:58.000 We were in the driver's seat before we, the West, we America, just start bombing civilians. 0.68

00:50:04.000 I think it's, I don't think it's a good moment in American history.

00:50:08.000 I think it's a stain on our history.

00:50:09.000 Andrew, final thoughts.

00:50:09.000 I do.

00:50:11.000 Well, no, I think there is almost a metaphysical element to this, not to sound too in the clouds or fringe about it, but I have to believe that when you unleash a force, a destructive force like that on to the planet, that there are unintended consequences that we cannot even begin to fathom.

00:50:36.000 You know, whether that, I mean, you just don't know where those kind of things will work out in art and architecture and in your country and the spirit of your people.

00:50:45.000 That's what Tucker says.

00:50:46.000 He says all the art died after the atom bomb.

00:50:48.000 And that's probably a bit strong.

00:50:50.000 I know, but that's his argument.

00:50:52.000 He thought it was the end of American ingenuity.

00:50:55.000 What I want, I just want to end with a few quotes because I think a lot of people aren't aware of this.

00:50:58.000 That in the first days after it was dropped, it was overwhelmingly on the right and with conservatives who said this is a morally questionable thing, or it's just wrong.

00:51:08.000 And Truman was a Democrat.

00:51:10.000 And Truman was a Democrat.

00:51:10.000 But don't obsess over the parties.

00:51:12.000 Like Fulton Sheen, have you heard of Fulton Sheen?

00:51:14.000 He's the cardinal.

00:51:14.000 He's my favorite.

00:51:15.000 Yeah, he should be.

00:51:16.000 You know what he says?

00:51:17.000 He should be sanctified.

00:51:19.000 Is that the right word?

00:51:19.000 Bishop?

00:51:20.000 Canonized.

00:51:20.000 Dang it.

00:51:21.000 Bishop Fulton Sheen said that the Adam bomb.

00:51:25.000 I'm going to read this as a quote.

00:51:26.000 Fulton Sheen said that the atomic bombing was, quote, our national sin.

00:51:31.000 And he argued that the counterculture came from it.

00:51:33.000 Father James Gillis was a Catholic priest as well.

00:51:36.000 He edited Catholic World.

00:51:37.000 He called it, quote, the most powerful blow ever delivered against Christian civilization and the moral law.

00:51:45.000 Fulton Sheen said that?

00:51:46.000 No, this was Father James Gillis, another Catholic priest at the time who was like a conservative.

00:51:52.000 George Schuyler was a contributor to National Review in its early days.

00:51:58.000 And he said, let me see.

00:52:01.000 Not satisfied with being able to kill people by the thousand, we have achieved the supreme triumph of being able to slaughter whole cities at a time.

00:52:08.000 Obviously, is there anything from Human Events magazine?

00:52:13.000 I don't see it at the time.

00:52:14.000 I'm reading this article by a guy named Andrew Cusack.

00:52:16.000 Just, I want to shout him out because he helped change my mind on this.

00:52:20.000 But there's another guy.

00:52:21.000 There were military voices.

00:52:22.000 Admiral William Leahy said it was, we have adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the dark age.

00:52:30.000 I was not taught to make war in that fashion.

00:52:33.000 Wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

00:52:37.000 Andrew.

00:52:38.000 No, I just, I mean, that I think I forget who it was that you quoted.

00:52:43.000 I'd never heard that before, Blake.

00:52:45.000 But I completely, you said, somebody said it led to the counter-revolution, the cultural revolution.

00:52:51.000 That was Fulton Sheen said that.

00:52:53.000 Yeah, I mean, I don't have a direct line between A and B there.

00:52:58.000 And he probably hasn't had it all worked out, how that happened, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.

00:53:04.000 It's like, you know, we've talked about it on the show before, Charlie.

00:53:07.000 I know you and I have talked about it.

00:53:09.000 It's like, you know, Osama bin Laden set to destroy, set out to destroy the American Empire, right? 0.94

00:53:16.000 I have.

00:53:16.000 And he maybe didn't live to see it, right?

00:53:20.000 But like, but at the same time, like, how, how successful in 50 years are we going to look back and say how successful Osama bin Laden was at getting us to destroy ourselves and pour our wealth and treasure into blood and sand in the Middle East and create all this domestic, you know, infighting and chaos, right? 0.89

00:53:39.000 You go back to the atomic bomb, same concept.

00:53:41.000 It's like, okay, we won that battle, but what were the unintended consequences?

00:53:47.000 How did we stain the next generation with this moment in history that's so cataclysmic?

00:53:54.000 Now, like I said, I have grace on the men that made this decision because of the moment they were in and because of the evil they thought they were fighting.

00:54:01.000 But what have we done?

00:54:04.000 What did we unleash?

00:54:05.000 That's right.

00:54:06.000 I pulled that.

00:54:07.000 Yeah, Jack, go ahead.

00:54:08.000 If I could do it, just not to do my own horn, but just to say where it is.

00:54:12.000 So I did pull up.

00:54:13.000 So Human Events magazine, of which I'm currently the senior editor, as people know, existed at this time.

00:54:20.000 And we have this quote here.

00:54:22.000 Just weeks after Japan's surrender, an article published in conservative magazine Human Events contended that America's atomic destruction of Hiroshima might be morally more shameful and more degrading than Japan's indefensible and infamous act of aggression at Pearl Harbor.

00:54:40.000 Wow.

00:54:40.000 And they were saying this.

00:54:41.000 I want to be clear.

00:54:42.000 They're saying this at the time.

00:54:45.000 Who were fighting the war, who had family members and friends fighting the war.

00:54:49.000 So this is not just judging it 50 years after he died in the war.

00:54:55.000 All right, guys.

00:54:56.000 So let's continue on this Tucker through line here.

00:54:58.000 So, so Blake, you're in particular can comment on this, but there was a lot of blowback to this episode on social media.

00:55:06.000 Is that right?

00:55:07.000 Well, just because I'll be honest, I think I don't know if that's right.

00:55:10.000 My Micro world, I can think of a couple dozen examples of people who loved it but twitter didn't love it.

00:55:17.000 Is, is that right?

00:55:18.000 But twitter is not real life.

00:55:19.000 Twitter is definitely not real life.

00:55:21.000 We have to keep reminding ourselves that yeah.

00:55:22.000 Well, so it wasn't.

00:55:23.000 It definitely wasn't just the atomic bomb thing.

00:55:25.000 There was a lot of topics.

00:55:26.000 Uh, they discussed aliens Radiation, Alien Seven they, he said, the theory of evolution, kitty porn on your computer from the intelligence.

00:55:34.000 I missed that one.

00:55:34.000 No, there was.

00:55:35.000 No, there was kitty porn on your website, on your computer, from the Intel Agency, Like that was the thing he kept saying.

00:55:41.000 Did he say that?

00:55:41.000 Like they would frame people.

00:55:42.000 It was that Cheryl Atkinson. 0.90

00:55:44.000 Yeah.

00:55:45.000 He said that if you say the wrong thing, the Intel agencies put that on your whoa, which happened to Cheryl Atkinson, which actually happened to Cheryl Atkinson, the journalist.

00:55:52.000 They did that to her?

00:55:54.000 They did.

00:55:55.000 And she's got all the documents and it's been suppressed.

00:56:00.000 Wow.

00:56:00.000 And she's like a normal, regular, like she was.

00:56:06.000 She was.

00:56:07.000 Yeah.

00:56:07.000 Yes.

00:56:08.000 Yes.

00:56:10.000 She's not the fire brand, anything.

00:56:13.000 No.

00:56:14.000 So, so, so, but anyone could chime in here.

00:56:16.000 I loved the interview.

00:56:17.000 They say, let's kind of, I want Blake to take the fifth on this right now because he's too biased on this particular topic.

00:56:25.000 I liked it.

00:56:26.000 Jack, do you think it was smart for Tucker, for the movement to go into that kind of a format?

00:56:32.000 I was neutral.

00:56:34.000 I think absolutely, because 30 to 40 million people have probably listened or have watched clips of this.

00:56:40.000 Your thoughts, Jack, on the Tucker Rogan insane, viral conversation.

00:56:46.000 Well, so, so there's a couple of thoughts, right?

00:56:49.000 And I can get, I'll say it this way: I can understand where people, some people are coming from in good faith if they're criticizing it and saying, saying, like, people are used to seeing Tucker Carlson slay dragon.

00:57:03.000 They want to see him slaying dragon.

00:57:05.000 They want him going after their most hated, virulent politicians and leftists and leftist ideas and saying the things that shouldn't be said and talking about, ooh, the great replacement or, you know, ooh, racial crime stats or something like that.

00:57:23.000 And that's, that's kind of what they're looking for.

00:57:25.000 Whereas Tucker himself, his interests don't necessarily align with that all the time.

00:57:30.000 I'm not saying they don't ever.

00:57:32.000 But there are times where he wants to explore different things.

00:57:34.000 And I think people need to understand that Tucker's done a ton for the movement.

00:57:39.000 And Tucker's got more achievements than most people in the movement combined.

00:57:44.000 And so if he wants to take some time to, you know, explore different areas, he's more than earned the right to do that.

00:57:50.000 And furthermore, he isn't like duty bound to discuss certain things or be a certain puppet for anyone.

00:57:57.000 I mean, he's independent now.

00:57:59.000 Certainly he doesn't have to do any of that.

00:58:00.000 He doesn't owe anyone anything in terms of it.

00:58:04.000 But at the same time, I guess what I could say is that there are also people who are sort of commenting in bad faith because I do think that with Tucker, with Tucker leaving his position at Fox, it created a situation where he had been sort of the undisputed talk dog, hop dog of like conservative slash alternate media.

00:58:27.000 And now it almost seems like there's a vacuum and you see other groups. 0.98

00:58:32.000 And I'm not going to, you know, call out anyone specifically, but you can certainly see other groups viewing the ability to sort of attack Tucker now as a way of trying to usurp that position, which I think is stupid and very nearsighted. 0.92

00:58:46.000 So I would, if there's anything bad for the movement, I'd say it's what's bad for the movement is this like petty sniping, which just comes across as jealousy. 0.90

00:58:53.000 Yeah, it's ankle Biden.

00:58:56.000 But Blake, what is wrong with, I mean, Rogan traditionally doesn't have political guests.

00:59:00.000 He will like one out of every 30, right?

00:59:03.000 Comedians, all that.

00:59:05.000 He has, he said, James Lindsey, Christopher Ruffo, Riley Gaines in the last, like this year.

00:59:09.000 Those are his three conservatives.

00:59:11.000 He's had Bernie Sanders on the program.

00:59:13.000 He's had Alex Jones, but I would say this is his most, he's had Ben Shapira on the show.

00:59:17.000 That was the one he had on, and it caused them to like demand that Spotify.

00:59:22.000 It was on the show.

00:59:23.000 No, no, no, it wasn't.

00:59:23.000 Was it Peterson?

00:59:24.000 No, it was, no, it was Dr. Robert Malone.

00:59:26.000 Oh, that's what it is.

00:59:27.000 It was the COVID stuff.

00:59:28.000 Yeah.

00:59:28.000 So it was, it was because Malone is so talented and he just doesn't BS.

00:59:32.000 And he just looked Joe in the eye and he said, the vaccines are a depopulation agent, Joe.

00:59:36.000 And it was just, that was during, I'm not saying I disagree or agree at that, Blake.

00:59:41.000 I'm just saying he said it in Spotify lost.

00:59:43.000 Mass formation psychosis.

00:59:44.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:59:45.000 That's his thing.

00:59:46.000 That's his thing.

00:59:47.000 So, but why wouldn't what is what was your, what is your criticism of this interview, if there was one?

00:59:53.000 Well, I think when I just, when I talk to people and some of them are sort of disappointed by Tucker post-Fox, is I think it's always, it's not that Tucker does anything new post-Fox, but he talks, I think, proportionally more about stuff that just, it feels almost off topic.

01:00:17.000 Like, if what are your big issues in the 2024 election?

01:00:20.000 Yeah, like, is it aliens?

01:00:22.000 Is it 9-11?

01:00:24.000 Is it whether evolution is true?

01:00:26.000 And those are all perfectly good things to talk about.

01:00:30.000 I think people have the sense that Tucker's biggest talent was he could zero in on what really mattered politically.

01:00:36.000 He did that in the interview, though, to be fair, though.

01:00:37.000 There was a, there was a, when he got to the Ukraine Foreign Aid stuff, but you would say that he veered off of course?

01:00:43.000 A little bit.

01:00:44.000 I think, or at least I think it's, it's a matter of proportion.

01:00:47.000 When he would talk about aliens on Fox, it would be in the e-block and it's like, oh, you do fun stuff late in your primetime show.

01:00:54.000 And one of the things is, oh, yeah, it's aliens.

01:00:56.000 And there would be funny Tuckers. 0.99

01:00:58.000 It was very much like a funny self-aware thing.

01:01:00.000 There would be a funny aerial phenomenon where the sky would like have blue lights in it because of weird lightning thing.

01:01:06.000 It's like, do people, is it UFOs?

01:01:09.000 Maybe it could be.

01:01:09.000 Have a nice weekend.

01:01:10.000 Yeah, have a nice weekend.

01:01:12.000 But now it's, you know, now it seems like a bigger focus.

01:01:18.000 When proportionally, it's like, we have, it feels like we're in a big crisis right now, not just with Ukraine, but with the border and with all this like legal overreach from the Biden administration.

01:01:30.000 And it's like a new thing every day.

01:01:32.000 And it's sort of in the past when you had a weekly show, Tucker would be there and he would come in and he'd be like, he'd be the guy taking point on all the reasons that this Arizona indictment of Tyler is super sinister.

01:01:44.000 He would say all the things we said on our show and he would be one of the first to say it.

01:01:48.000 And now he'll probably get to it, but he probably won't be one of the first to get to it.

01:01:52.000 And he might only do one episode on it and then nothing on it for weeks at a time.

01:01:56.000 So Andrew, let's have you close it out.

01:01:58.000 Andrew, you're the PR messaging genius.

01:02:00.000 What do you think?

01:02:02.000 No, I agree.

01:02:03.000 I agree with what Blake just said.

01:02:04.000 I think it's more of a structural issue of not having a daily show because the news really drives a daily show.

01:02:10.000 We know that on the Charlie Kirk show.

01:02:11.000 It's like we know the lead, I would say, 80% of the time because there's a breaking lead story, right?

01:02:18.000 And so when you're doing a nightly show, he has to hit that story that everybody wants to hear his opinion on.

01:02:24.000 But right now, he's not bound to a publishing schedule, basically.

01:02:28.000 He kind of just releases content when it's ready.

01:02:32.000 And so that's one thing.

01:02:33.000 Second thing, Charlie, I listened to the majority of that interview.

01:02:36.000 I didn't listen to the whole Tucker Rogan piece.

01:02:39.000 But to your point, there is large chunks of it that are right on the money where he's dialing in.

01:02:48.000 He's bringing that moral clarity on the truly important stuff.

01:02:51.000 But what the internet does is it clips it and it clips different pieces of it.

01:02:56.000 I mean, your account was maybe potentially part of this, right?

01:03:00.000 The Building 7, I think your tweet did like 3 or 4 million impressions on Twitter because it was interesting.

01:03:06.000 But that doesn't mean that that was the predominant topic that was discussed in that three-hour interview.

01:03:13.000 It was just an interesting little clip.

01:03:14.000 But then the internet does what it does and then it and it makes it out like that was the vast majority of the discussion.

01:03:22.000 So I think it's a it's a structural issue.

01:03:25.000 But, you know, I think one other thing, the Israel topic when he had the, what was it?

01:03:36.000 The, I think he was a Lutheran, actually, but it was the Christian guy from, was it Bethlehem?

01:03:44.000 I think it was that.

01:03:45.000 And then there was also the Russian grocery store thing.

01:03:50.000 So there's been a few little incidents that have been leading up to this, and people have started ankle biting at Tucker.

01:03:58.000 And I think it's just starting to gather momentum.

01:04:01.000 And this was just sort of like, you see all of these different weird ways that, you know, Tucker's a very curious guy.

01:04:10.000 So his mind goes in all these curious directions.

01:04:13.000 And yeah, it's sort of, it's creating this atmosphere of a lot of noise.

01:04:16.000 And they do miss the nightly hitting the main story, the main, and the most important thing.

01:04:22.000 But to Jack's point, Tucker's Tucker.

01:04:26.000 He's won the right to do this.

01:04:28.000 And to the extent that other people are going to criticize him, it's bound to happen.

01:04:33.000 But it's a lot of like clout chasing, in my opinion.

01:04:37.000 But it's a structural issue.

01:04:40.000 Yeah, I mean, it's fine.

01:04:42.000 I think it was obviously a very entertaining thing.

01:04:45.000 It was, it's Joe Rogan.

01:04:47.000 Everyone knows that Joe Rogan is what he likes to talk about.

01:04:51.000 I love the example.

01:04:54.000 Like Rogan, Rogan is into those topics.

01:04:58.000 So you have, like, here's what I probably actually think happened: is that they were, because they spent some time together.

01:05:04.000 He was down in Austin and they did like a comedy show.

01:05:07.000 And then, you know, this was sort of, it was like a weekend, like a long weekend in Austin or something.

01:05:11.000 So this is just my impression.

01:05:14.000 And I think I've ever met Rogan, actually.

01:05:18.000 But I think what probably happened, because I've been around stuff like this a lot, is that they were probably just having a lot of off-screen conversations about those topics.

01:05:27.000 And that just bled over into the show.

01:05:30.000 I don't think there's any like any time.

01:05:35.000 Yeah, if you've spent any time with Tucker, and I haven't probably spent as much as Blake or you, Jack, but I've spent some, that it's just these crazy conversations come up and you talk about random stuff and it's really, really fascinating.

01:05:50.000 And Tucker is incredibly charming and extremely fascinating.

01:05:54.000 And it just does come up because he's a really curious guy.

01:05:57.000 The second thing I will say, and Jack, you and Charlie know this firsthand, is you become a victim of your own success.

01:06:03.000 So Tucker has been massively successful.

01:06:06.000 He's been built up to be this thing, he represents the movement and he's the intellectual vanguard of the populist conservative movement and all of these things.

01:06:17.000 And then all of a sudden, there's unbeknownst to him, there's now rules applied to him where he's not able to sort of be a human and indulge in random conversations.

01:06:26.000 This happens to you and Charlie.

01:06:28.000 You come on the show and you talk about stuff that you just find interesting.

01:06:32.000 And all of a sudden, it's like getting clipped by, you know, the Biden campaign is like Trump surrogate, you know, Jack Kesobic, Trump surrogate, Charlie Kirk.

01:06:42.000 And it's like, no, we're not Trump's surrogate.

01:06:44.000 Like, yeah, we support him, but we also have our own life and our own show and our own things that we do.

01:06:50.000 Anyway, so it's part of the.

01:06:51.000 But it's also like, like, people forget, dude, that Tucker, even after he left his show, I mean, just played this massively outsized role in the presidential primary, like a couple of months ago.

01:07:03.000 It was long ago.

01:07:05.000 Yeah.

01:07:05.000 Right.

01:07:05.000 And yeah, that Iowa forum where he just ended Mike Pence's career, his entire career, right on state with his Iraq war questioning.

01:07:13.000 Just destroyed it.

01:07:14.000 There's no coming back.

01:07:15.000 And Mike Pence found that out in short order later.

01:07:18.000 So, guys, it's like, I don't know. 0.93

01:07:22.000 I think it's all very silly.

01:07:25.000 But of course, it's the world we live in, right?

01:07:26.000 Because we live in a constant state of dopamine rush.

01:07:29.000 It doesn't matter what you did in the past.

01:07:31.000 It doesn't matter what your resume is.

01:07:32.000 What are you doing right now?

01:07:34.000 And I don't like this stuff right now.

01:07:36.000 I expect a certain thing from Tucker.

01:07:38.000 It's like, it's like the Ramones were together for 25 years and they kept making the same record for 25 years.

01:07:44.000 And that's fine because if they wanted to do that and be the Ramones, that's fine too.

01:07:48.000 But other bands go in different directions at different times.

01:07:52.000 And if the music is good, then why shouldn't they be allowed to do that?

01:07:55.000 All right, everybody.

01:07:56.000 Till next week, we'll keep committing thought crimes.

01:07:59.000 Jack, stay safe and hungry.

01:08:01.000 I don't think that'll be a problem.

01:08:02.000 Thanks so much, guys.

01:08:03.000 Talk to you soon.

01:08:06.000 Thanks so much for listening.

01:08:07.000 Everybody, email us as always freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:08:10.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

01:08:14.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 27, 2024

THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 42 — Lawfare in Arizona? Was the A-Bomb Evil?

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript