The Charlie Kirk Show - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 86 — Trump v. Musk, Battle of the Bill(ionaires)

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, what is going on between President Trump and Elon Musk?

00:00:03.000 We have the instant analysis with the thought crime team, Blake, Jack, and Tyler.

00:00:08.000 We analyze it.

00:00:09.000 Of all the latest stuff, impeaching Donald Trump, the fight, the schism, let's see what happens.

00:00:15.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast and get involved with Turning Point USA at tpusa.com.

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00:00:30.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:30.000 Here we go.

00:00:31.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:33.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:35.000 I want you to know we are lucky.

00:00:37.000 To have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:39.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:42.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:43.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:44.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:52.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:01.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:29.000 Okay, everybody.

00:01:31.000 Today's an awful day.

00:01:33.000 But anyway, it's okay.

00:01:34.000 We're here anyway.

00:01:35.000 We got Blake, we got Tyler, and we got Jack.

00:01:38.000 So today's not great.

00:01:40.000 Prove me wrong.

00:01:41.000 Yeah, it's...

00:01:45.000 What do you mean?

00:01:46.000 It's entertaining.

00:01:47.000 Jack's having fun.

00:01:48.000 Okay, Jack, tell us how great today is.

00:01:50.000 I think it's hilarious.

00:01:52.000 I think it's great on so many levels, right?

00:01:56.000 You know, is it a bump in the road?

00:01:58.000 For sure it's a bump in the road.

00:01:58.000 But this is what happens when you have coalition politics.

00:02:02.000 If you study history, and Blake, I'm sure, could rattle off a dozen examples off the top of his head of coalition politics that go through this after the coalition achieves victory, that go through some growing pains, that go through some leadership challenges, which there clearly is, which go through some issues and flare-ups.

00:02:18.000 And it's always going to happen.

00:02:20.000 It was inevitable.

00:02:21.000 I think this is something where, you know, no company can have two CEOs.

00:02:25.000 And, you know, a country has to be run by a chain of command, and it's really as simple as that.

00:02:30.000 And so if this was always going to happen, fine.

00:02:34.000 Then it might as well happen within the first couple months of the first year rather than, oh, I don't know, like right before an election or a time when it really matters.

00:02:42.000 Charlie, today's a great day we should be celebrating, and here's the reason why.

00:02:48.000 Everyone expected this to blow up way sooner than it actually did, and it actually lasted this long.

00:02:54.000 There's no person that's had a stronger, more great relationship with the president than Turning Point and Charlie and everyone else.

00:03:02.000 This is the one thing that I want to point out.

00:03:04.000 Today is the anniversary of 13 years of Turning Point.

00:03:08.000 It happened just like on Cosmic.

00:03:10.000 You know, the stars aligned on the 13th birthday.

00:03:13.000 And the only...

00:03:22.000 And so you look at this, it happens.

00:03:24.000 These things break up.

00:03:25.000 They change.

00:03:26.000 They change shape.

00:03:27.000 I think a lot of people expected the Elon thing to blow up at some point or another.

00:03:32.000 That's just politics.

00:03:33.000 It's normal.

00:03:34.000 It's just big because he's the richest guy on the planet.

00:03:36.000 And like you mentioned, Charlie, Trump's the most powerful guy on the planet.

00:03:40.000 And so it's just going to be a little bit uglier than normal.

00:03:43.000 But, you know, these things happen and they change.

00:03:45.000 And so it was expected.

00:03:47.000 It was going to happen at some point.

00:03:50.000 Hopefully it doesn't get worse.

00:03:51.000 But did it have to happen like this?

00:03:52.000 I mean, accusing of the Epstein files.

00:04:01.000 Because this could be literally in a matter of days they calm down a bit and the bill moves on and they either bury the hatchet or stop sniping each other.

00:04:12.000 But right now, the pinned post on X by Elon is, is it time to create a new political party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle with 82% voting yes on his pinned tweet?

00:04:24.000 And, you know, it has to be said...

00:04:33.000 But if you attempt to do it, you can greatly shake up one election cycle at least.

00:04:38.000 And maybe we'd see that.

00:04:40.000 Jack said not to say this, but it actually is really easy to create a new political party.

00:04:44.000 It's easy to create one.

00:04:45.000 It's difficult to get 10, 20, keep it going past one election.

00:04:49.000 I would even make an argument against that because you don't need to have it be super sustainable.

00:04:55.000 It doesn't even have to be in very many states.

00:04:58.000 But I don't want to give anyone ideas.

00:05:00.000 I don't want to be that guy.

00:05:03.000 But both of the parties are very fragile because creating a new party.

00:05:07.000 Now, there have been parties that have been created.

00:05:09.000 I think they've done it wrong.

00:05:10.000 The question is about how to do it the right way.

00:05:13.000 The scary part with Elon and some of the people that he has around him is that they might figure out how to do it the right way.

00:05:19.000 And if they do that, that would only damage, I think, I think it would damage most...

00:05:26.000 immediately the Republican Party.

00:05:27.000 Wait, so I'm trying, so then Karine Jean-Pierre says she's becoming an independent yesterday, Well, hold on.

00:05:38.000 Karine said she's becoming an independent yesterday, and then today Elon's like, I'm going to create a new independent third party.

00:05:43.000 Like, it's...

00:05:46.000 No, I'm just saying.

00:05:47.000 It's just amazing how it's all happening within a couple days.

00:05:50.000 What's interesting to me is usually when you hear these, oh, let's create a party that represents the middle, you hear it from sort of these bland, centrist politicians or businessmen who aren't famously political.

00:06:03.000 But with Musk, what's interesting is he's become this utterly reviled figure on the American left because he allied with Trump.

00:06:11.000 You had people.

00:06:21.000 And the question is, would the left be remotely willing to forgive?

00:06:25.000 No, no, they've already sworn him off.

00:06:26.000 Exactly.

00:06:27.000 like Elon there is no you want to talk about like the arc of non-forgiveness the left created non-forgiveness principle yes and so at that point There is no redemption for him on the left.

00:06:38.000 And so I think you create this interesting...

00:06:51.000 And then you circle back around to he can sabotage the right, which means he would empower the party that has made it its priority to destroy Tesla, destroy SpaceX, possibly put Musk himself in prison.

00:07:01.000 They wanted to do that if Trump lost.

00:07:04.000 And are they going to have to be able to?

00:07:06.000 I feel like naturally they're going to not want to be enemies because one of the things that Musk and Trump have in common is the left wants to put both of them in prison.

00:07:15.000 And Blake, to your point, though, too, this isn't just theory on the left.

00:07:20.000 The left did this.

00:07:21.000 So they created the no labels party and the left held together and did not fracture nearly as much as people thought it would on the left because they created the no labels party, uh, really because there was a lot of resentment at the time for how the left was managing things with Biden.

00:07:40.000 And obviously they, they equipped and, and, They've already done this and they succeeded in hanging together.

00:07:54.000 This hasn't happened on the right yet in any kind of functional way and I agree with you. 0.87

00:07:58.000 It would mostly hurt the riot if it did happen.

00:08:01.000 Yeah, I just, I mean, here's the thing I have to keep on just reminding myself is that this I'd much rather have this blow up.

00:08:10.000 I mean, it went from nothing to thermonuclear war.

00:08:12.000 You don't accuse somebody of being in the Epstein files.

00:08:14.000 I want to log this, by the way, that Charlie predicted this specific thing when he saw that Elon Musk made the tweet.

00:08:22.000 Let's get the exact tweet up.

00:08:24.000 The ingratitude.

00:08:24.000 The ingratitude one.

00:08:25.000 I'm going to bring it up here.

00:08:27.000 I'll have to scroll for a bit.

00:08:28.000 This is one of my greatest calls ever.

00:08:31.000 Yeah, this is an amazing call that he made.

00:08:33.000 Let's go down to where it is.

00:08:34.000 This was about three hours ago.

00:08:38.000 It was around like 10, 15. Exactly.

00:08:41.000 Do we have it?

00:08:43.000 And so he says, Without me, Trump would have lost the election.

00:08:48.000 Dems would control the House and Republicans would be 51-49 in the Senate.

00:08:52.000 Such ingratitude.

00:08:54.000 Charlie sees that.

00:08:55.000 Any messages?

00:08:55.000 He goes, Blake, within one hour, this is going after where Trump is going to go nuclear.

00:09:02.000 You do not say, I'm the reason Trump won.

00:09:05.000 Yes.

00:09:05.000 Trump can forgive, actually, quite a few things, but he will not abide by that.

00:09:09.000 He said by 11.30 Pacific time, it's going to happen.

00:09:13.000 11.37.

00:09:14.000 11.37, Trump makes his first truth social post.

00:09:18.000 That's right.

00:09:18.000 And I had no inside information whatsoever, like, at all.

00:09:22.000 And just boom. 0.93

00:09:23.000 And it was...

00:09:29.000 Jack, I think you're going to like this.

00:09:31.000 I think Bobby Kennedy was more instrumental in bringing a new coalition together the last 90 days than Elon was.

00:09:40.000 Not saying Elon wasn't important.

00:09:42.000 What do you think, Jack?

00:09:43.000 Bobby or Elon?

00:09:45.000 I've said this a ton of times.

00:09:47.000 I just mean this objectively, that the Maha movement is the most popular political movement in America today.

00:09:55.000 And I've been saying this for months.

00:09:58.000 I don't think that anyone in media has quite figured this out yet, that somehow Republicans, for once, outflanked Democrats on health, on health care.

00:10:09.000 It was like they did Obamacare and that took them up through 2010 and then they just sort of stopped talking about the issue.

00:10:14.000 But then RFK comes along and finds a new way to talk about health as an issue.

00:10:19.000 Republicans latch onto it.

00:10:20.000 President Trump brings in Bobby Kennedy.

00:10:23.000 Of course, they have the great and iconic meeting at, yes, a turning point rally, a turning point action rally down in Georgia, which has gone down in history and will continue to go down in history as one of the great meetings of the minds and the coalition coming together.

00:10:39.000 And so that doesn't diminish what Elon did, but it's just it represents a completely different political alignment than we've ever seen in American politics when Bobby Kennedy crossed It stands on its own.

00:10:54.000 And you still see the Maha movement Absolutely chugging along on all four cylinders right now, whether it be dyes in foods, whether it be the latest thing that they're banning from cereals and gliophosphates and just all of it. 0.71

00:11:11.000 And I've got to say, for suburban women, I've always told the story, right?

00:11:15.000 That for suburban women, my wife, and everybody knows my wife, Tainte, she, you know, follows our stuff, but she's not super political. 1.00

00:11:22.000 But I catch her, you know, at some point, like last fall or whatever it was, and she's listening to a Rogan podcast.

00:11:28.000 And I'm like, what do you listen to?

00:11:29.000 Joe Rogan.

00:11:30.000 Like, you don't usually listen to Joe Rogan.

00:11:31.000 I mean, that's cool.

00:11:32.000 Whatever.

00:11:32.000 Cool.

00:11:32.000 You know, how about it?

00:11:33.000 And it was Bobby Kennedy.

00:11:35.000 And I said, what made you want to listen to this one?

00:11:37.000 She goes, All the moms in my mom's chat are talking about this.

00:11:41.000 All of the suburban women, especially those who have children, on the vaccine, on the food, on everything else, the Maha Mom movement was born through the work of RFK. 0.60

00:11:54.000 And so aligning with Bobby Kennedy, that's why Trump wants suburban women. 1.00

00:11:58.000 It's so simple.

00:11:59.000 And that became a key demographic, among other key demographics, but it absolutely became a key demographic margin in the swing states and absolutely in the Rust Belt.

00:12:09.000 And so just basic politics analysis.

00:12:13.000 I've been saying this point forever that you cannot remove Maha from the coalition.

00:12:20.000 This is absolutely one of the most important pieces politically for Trump and the movement going forward.

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00:13:33.000 Music So, Blake, is this reconcilable?

00:13:39.000 I actually think it is.

00:13:40.000 I actually...

00:13:41.000 I'm going to make a call that there will be...

00:13:45.000 I think that there is a...

00:13:47.000 There will be a really quiet 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.

00:13:52.000 And I think that...

00:14:03.000 I actually think this is going to be reconcilable.

00:14:06.000 The reason being, and I know this, is it went so hot so fast that the impulse control was obviously not there.

00:14:16.000 That this wasn't as calculated.

00:14:18.000 This just seemed to be a very quick, escalatory thing.

00:14:22.000 And look, evidence is this.

00:14:24.000 I could name some private examples.

00:14:26.000 Honestly, I think this is pretty public.

00:14:28.000 Let me think about this.

00:14:29.000 No, okay, a good example is this.

00:14:31.000 At least someone like Elon was very, very mad at Laura Loomer back in December.

00:14:36.000 Very mad.

00:14:37.000 That's public.

00:14:38.000 She was going after him and all that.

00:14:40.000 And then a couple months later, he was retweeting her and was responding to her.

00:14:45.000 Like, there has been a pattern of both of these guys.

00:14:48.000 I mean, look, J.D. Vance called...

00:14:56.000 I think that there is going—I actually think in the short term this is not necessarily reconcilable.

00:15:03.000 I actually am more bullish on, like, them actually coming together because it sounds like, oh, Trump's only president for three and a half years.

00:15:10.000 That's a long time, Elon, and you have a lot of government contracts, and I actually think that you have very ambitious and I think righteous— Goals to want to go to Mars.

00:15:20.000 And I actually think what cooler heads are going to prevail here.

00:15:24.000 And don't be surprised if there's like a story, and I have no inside information to say this.

00:15:29.000 It's just instinct.

00:15:30.000 Again, I haven't talked to anybody.

00:15:31.000 In the next like nine months, where all of a sudden there's like back channel established between Team Elon and Team Trump and like Bill Ackman or somebody Serbs as like the intermediary.

00:15:43.000 The stakes are too high, and deep down I actually think they agree on a lot and have good memories together.

00:15:49.000 Don't be shocked if all of a sudden Elon's having a stake at Mar-a-Lago in November.

00:15:53.000 I mean, I'm telling you right now, don't be shocked.

00:15:55.000 Here's where the Trump team is smart, too, is nothing that Elon has worked towards and wants is going to be supported by the left, as you so poignantly pointed out here, is that they're not going to have any kind of home to go to with the left because the left isn't going to embrace Elon, and they're not going to support anything that Elon's doing with Doge and everything that he's actually upset about.

00:16:15.000 The only people that will help him are on the right.

00:16:17.000 And so when the political reality comes down the road here of who are we going to take out, the people they're going to take out are the most moderate people anyways that are the least likely to be Trump supporters.

00:16:29.000 And so when Elon accidentally or incidentally pushes those people towards Trump, there's going to become a real clear reality that those people are not gettable to him.

00:16:42.000 They're not winnable.

00:16:44.000 The establishment, when it goes towards Trump, that actually makes the party more conservative and then actually ends up doing the things that he wants to have done anyways, which is going to enable all of the doge.

00:16:56.000 So I think that the outcome of what you're saying is that we've seen numerous times, even people really close and really fond of President Trump, including Trump.

00:17:12.000 They got over that very quickly.

00:17:14.000 They figured it out.

00:17:15.000 The political dice got re-rolled and there was a realization that some of the things that Steve said were correct and they got fixed and it actually made the movement better.

00:17:26.000 And I think that that's probably where we're going to end up.

00:17:29.000 Blake.

00:17:29.000 I, so the issue with them reconciling it, Nope, wrong.

00:17:39.000 It's very real.

00:17:39.000 It is definitely real.

00:17:41.000 I'm sorry.

00:17:42.000 It's very real.

00:17:42.000 Sorry, sorry to be the bearers of bad news on that one.

00:17:45.000 But I guess my issue with envisioning a reconciliation is that Trump, I think we agree Trump, He very much thrives and he wants to be dominant.

00:17:59.000 He wants to be number one.

00:18:01.000 And so he can reconcile with people as long as it carries the implication they are acknowledging him as the boss, as the number one.

00:18:10.000 And the issue I can see is, is Elon Musk going to make that type of submission?

00:18:16.000 I could see him not wanting to attack Trump anymore.

00:18:19.000 I could see him maybe realizing this was a bad idea.

00:18:23.000 But is Elon going to come out and be like, oh, I was wrong.

00:18:26.000 Trump is the best president ever and is being awesome?

00:18:31.000 I think that there is such an unpredictable arc to all this, guys.

00:18:35.000 Let's be clear.

00:18:36.000 A year ago, Elon was still on the fence.

00:18:39.000 He was not yet endorsed Trump until July 13th in Butler, Pennsylvania.

00:18:44.000 We're all over the place here, right?

00:18:46.000 This is, we must understand the, Like he was doing spaces with DeSantis people like basically 12 months ago, 13 months ago.

00:18:56.000 Right.

00:18:56.000 So I just think we all need to do the.

00:19:01.000 100%.

00:19:02.000 I mean, do I love the, like, escalation?

00:19:05.000 I actually think Trump has been remarkably restrained in his public retorts.

00:19:13.000 Yeah, but I think there's a reason for that.

00:19:15.000 I think Trump doesn't...

00:19:16.000 It's kind of like he...

00:19:18.000 People are expecting kind of like the giga atomic bomb in return.

00:19:23.000 And instead he's just like, So Amy Walter is really, she's good on most of the Cook Political Report. 0.95

00:19:30.000 She has a very interesting take. 0.71

00:19:32.000 She says, this is a war that Trump is destined to win against Elon.

00:19:35.000 Doesn't need Elon's money anymore of his campaign.

00:19:38.000 Trump is more popular among Republicans than Musk is by a lot.

00:19:41.000 Congressional Republicans are going to stick with Trump on BBB.

00:19:44.000 And again, I just want to say one other thing, which I think is really important, guys.

00:19:47.000 This feels like drama more than anything else, right?

00:19:50.000 It's drama.

00:19:51.000 We are in June of 2025, okay?

00:19:54.000 By like Christmas, we're gonna be like, wait, were we talking about that stuff back then?

00:19:59.000 A year from today, if the Big Beautiful Bill does even half of what Stephen Miller says it is, we're gonna have a lot more deportations.

00:20:05.000 The border will be secure.

00:20:07.000 Who knows what the economy will look like?

00:20:08.000 Elon thinks we're going into a recession.

00:20:10.000 Like he just predicted that today in kind of his stream of consciousness tweets.

00:20:15.000 But it's also just, I think that if you look at these things in terms of year cycles, I would much rather have this blow up in June of 25 than June of 26. Totally.

00:20:27.000 Right?

00:20:27.000 That gives us a ton of time to remedy stuff.

00:20:31.000 And let me just say one last thing.

00:20:33.000 One last thing.

00:20:33.000 And Jack, I want to throw it to you.

00:20:34.000 In primary politics, I have heard this so many times.

00:20:38.000 I should have said this on my little YouTube thing earlier.

00:20:40.000 But I'll say this, and I'm going to say this to Laura Ingram.

00:20:43.000 I can't tell you how many times I've heard this.

00:20:45.000 There is no way they can get back together because it's been so nasty the way they've attacked each other.

00:20:50.000 And we always seem to defy the odds where all of a sudden people that were so bitter...

00:20:54.000 He called little Marco that, you know, he's now a secretary of state.

00:20:58.000 Okay.

00:20:58.000 I mean, he, he, he said that Ben Carson was a mental case and literally, and Ben Carson ended up being HUD secretary.

00:21:06.000 And he made fun of the fact that Ben Carson was lying about being stabbed in his You remember this whole thing with his belt?

00:21:13.000 I mean, there is a rhetoric around politics that I think we play into too much.

00:21:19.000 And I think that...

00:21:29.000 I don't think they'll ever be the same way they were, but I actually think that they're stronger together and they'll both realize that.

00:21:37.000 Definitely grow around stronger together.

00:21:38.000 I think one of the biggest tragedies that could happen here is set aside whatever else you have.

00:21:44.000 Like it's genuinely important that – It's basically Tesla.

00:21:52.000 What's probably the most standout American firm innovating in a difficult field?

00:21:58.000 It's probably SpaceX.

00:21:59.000 And what's the most important free speech platform we have?

00:22:01.000 It's X. And all of those things are very valuable things that Musk has been involved in.

00:22:08.000 And one of the biggest tragedies would be if we lost any of those, whether it's because of some fight or if it would be because Elon himself would damage it.

00:22:16.000 I really hope Elon doesn't go on this bender where he starts censoring a ton of people on X. I might lose my X account.

00:22:23.000 Maybe.

00:22:24.000 That would be very unfortunate if it were to happen.

00:22:28.000 Being a Trump follower means kind of believing in the great man theory of history.

00:22:33.000 And I think Elon Musk is clearly a great man who has contributed a lot.

00:22:38.000 He has done a lot for America and for the world.

00:22:41.000 And you would really hope he does not damage that with any impulsive actions now.

00:22:46.000 Sometimes great men do do that.

00:22:47.000 Jack, I cut you off.

00:22:48.000 What's on your mind?

00:22:49.000 Yeah, no, that's exactly what I was saying.

00:22:51.000 I do think this was going to happen.

00:22:53.000 I do remember Elon also being associated with the original Trump administration in 2017, and he left sort of in the aftermath of Charlottesville and a couple of other things.

00:23:03.000 So that was also in the first summer of the first admin.

00:23:07.000 And you have a situation politically where, yeah, it's anything.

00:23:11.000 And I gave a comment to Politico earlier today.

00:23:14.000 Along similar lines, just saying that with Trump and Elon, never count anything out.

00:23:20.000 Just never count anything out, especially with the president.

00:23:23.000 He has a way of turning enemies into allies and has done so time and time again, and people seem to always discount his ability to do so.

00:23:35.000 But I do think that we should actually talk a little bit about the bill itself.

00:23:41.000 You know, one of the things that I've been trying to push on X and just on the shows and everything is that it's this idea that people are saying, okay, well, you know, we have to balance the budget.

00:23:50.000 We have to balance the budget.

00:23:51.000 We have to balance the budget.

00:23:52.000 We have to get the debt.

00:23:53.000 I don't remember campaigning on that.

00:23:54.000 I really don't.

00:23:56.000 I think it's important.

00:23:57.000 I think a lot of things are important, obviously.

00:23:59.000 But that was not one of the core issues and has never been one of the core issues.

00:24:03.000 It's always been about mass deportations.

00:24:07.000 It's always been about tariffs.

00:24:08.000 It's always been about foreign policy.

00:24:10.000 And so that's really what this bill was always meant to address.

00:24:14.000 And so, yeah, there's lots of meta things going on here.

00:24:17.000 But when it comes to these issues, this is the—and Stephen Miller's right.

00:24:21.000 This actually is the best deportation bill, the best immigration bill that we've ever seen put forward in this nation's modern history.

00:24:30.000 And if you actually want entitlement reform, if you actually want to cut down on this, oh, by the way, Oh, we cut the programs.

00:24:40.000 Just cut the programs.

00:24:41.000 Cut the programs.

00:24:42.000 Well, what if, boys and girls, you look at the demand side of the equation as well and reduce the number of people who are on these programs by removing them from the country?

00:24:52.000 43% of immigrants, legal and illegal, are on one welfare program or another.

00:24:58.000 So get them out.

00:25:00.000 You get them out, the number is going to go down.

00:25:02.000 That's the way these projections work.

00:25:04.000 They don't factor in something like mass deportations.

00:25:07.000 It's going to dramatically reduce the amount of people that are on the programs.

00:25:10.000 And yet you never see the libertarians or any of these guys, these budget hawks, you're even looking at it that way.

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00:26:12.000 The world is turning to gold.

00:26:14.000 Shouldn't you be looking into doing that too?

00:26:19.000 So, Blake?

00:26:21.000 I just had I'm thinking of just downside things that could happen.

00:26:25.000 Elon is making tweets where he says that we should impeach Trump now and replace him with Vance, I suppose.

00:26:33.000 That sounds wonderful.

00:26:35.000 I got caught in the crossfire.

00:26:52.000 Which, again, it's like I got it.

00:26:54.000 He unfollowed me.

00:26:55.000 I'm like, what is that all about?

00:26:57.000 It's like, fine, I guess.

00:26:59.000 Again, I just have to remind myself, Elon and I had no contact nine months ago, let alone a year ago.

00:27:05.000 So it was fun while it lasted.

00:27:07.000 I learned a lot from him.

00:27:08.000 He was a friend, and maybe one day we'll be friends again.

00:27:10.000 I literally have no bitterness at all whatsoever.

00:27:13.000 It's not a joke, right?

00:27:15.000 It's fine.

00:27:17.000 Actually, I think highly of him.

00:27:18.000 I think he's an incredible entrepreneur.

00:27:19.000 I think what he's done is remarkable.

00:27:21.000 And great.

00:27:22.000 If he wants to ever, you know, hang out again, let me know.

00:27:24.000 We've all been big fans over here.

00:27:26.000 No, I mean that.

00:27:27.000 We're still big fans.

00:27:29.000 I have a great life.

00:27:30.000 I have kids and a family.

00:27:32.000 You know, it's fun.

00:27:33.000 Okay, great.

00:27:34.000 Charlie is calling for an immediate ceasefire.

00:27:37.000 He's asking for terms.

00:27:40.000 The peace talks will take place at Turning Point headquarters.

00:27:44.000 Trump just announced he's shutting down Diablo servers, and this is a big, big deal.

00:27:49.000 No!

00:27:52.000 Wait, I thought Diablo servers were in China.

00:27:55.000 Yeah, I don't know how he's doing it.

00:27:58.000 Oh, he's got a strike up.

00:28:00.000 We need, like, simultaneous strike.

00:28:04.000 I'm so upset.

00:28:06.000 Simultaneous negotiations in Istanbul for, you know, like, Russia-Ukraine.

00:28:13.000 India, Pakistan, Israel, Gaza, and Trump, Elon.

00:28:16.000 And we can just have like four rooms right next to each other.

00:28:19.000 And Trump can run to each of them and then like one of them is just Elon hanging out playing Path of Exile or whatever he's into.

00:28:27.000 I thought it was Diablo.

00:28:28.000 I think he probably does multiple.

00:28:29.000 The one that he kind of...

00:28:31.000 Yeah, but I think Path of Exile 2 is the one where he claimed he was a top 10 player in the world.

00:28:36.000 And he was just, like, paying a Chinese guy to fake an account, which...

00:28:43.000 Yeah, yeah, he was...

00:28:49.000 Wait, wait, no, somebody was literally just texting me about that.

00:28:54.000 I think you're right.

00:28:57.000 Yes, Path of Exile 2, a Diablo-like hack and slash.

00:29:00.000 So he probably plays Diablo 2. I've never played Diablo.

00:29:03.000 I know it's quite popular.

00:29:04.000 He plays Diablo, that's for sure.

00:29:05.000 But my understanding is Path of Exile 2, claiming to be the top guy in that would be like if...

00:29:14.000 It doesn't really work that way.

00:29:17.000 So let's talk about some of the politics here.

00:29:21.000 The Democrats won't want him, and there's no reconciliation there.

00:29:26.000 Let's just say the Republican thing is on ice.

00:29:29.000 We're so far out from the midterm, so his threats of a third party would be very difficult to manifest in a reality.

00:29:35.000 Well, it'd be difficult, but also it's early enough that if he wanted to say, like, Let's say he met some of his tech buddies and they came up with a platform they wanted people to run on that they could call Centrist.

00:29:47.000 Maybe it would be secure the border but have high-skill immigrants, because obviously there's tech guys like that, and maybe balanced budget.

00:29:54.000 Something that they come up with.

00:29:56.000 They could do it and still have the time to say, we have the money, we'll spend $3 billion to fund any candidates who want to run for House or Senate on this platform.

00:30:09.000 And they have enough time, I think, that they could get this together by then.

00:30:12.000 They could have the platform by July or August.

00:30:15.000 They could start recruiting people, start getting them on the ballot, and you have the whole thing going by next spring.

00:30:21.000 They have enough time to attempt that if they really want to.

00:30:25.000 Now, I think what you'd find is, much as Elon found the federal government frustrating because you can't just be a CEO and go in and blow stuff up, I think...

00:30:37.000 Like, oh, you mean we have to get all these volunteers who go and get signatures and they have to vet the signatures? 0.96

00:30:42.000 It's a pretty big pain in the butt. 0.57

00:30:44.000 And you can't just take a billion dollars and buy someone onto the ballot in most places. 0.95

00:30:50.000 Well, you kind of can.

00:30:52.000 Well, you can pay people to collect signatures.

00:30:54.000 But even then, if you're going to...

00:31:00.000 But if we're running in the midterms, you can't run one person.

00:31:03.000 You have to run 300 people.

00:31:05.000 So to get official party status in most states, there's a full process for it.

00:31:08.000 And it's a numerous month process.

00:31:10.000 So you're running out of time.

00:31:12.000 You're running out of daylight to basically do it.

00:31:15.000 Because the problem He just tried this with a ton of money last year.

00:31:20.000 Yeah, presidential is different because each state has their own policies for how many signatures you need to collect to get a presidential ballot.

00:31:25.000 But for official party status, in order to nominate somebody for governor, lieutenant governor, all the way down to local offices, but Congress in particular, you have to have official party status in the state.

00:31:40.000 And so what they would have to do is they would have to go to the states that have the most opportunity to win, so the people that they effectively hate the most, where you can knock off one or two people in that state to make it worth it.

00:31:51.000 The problem is that to get official party status in each of the states, there's a certain number of months that it takes to do it, and you have to do it before the initial primary election.

00:32:01.000 Some primaries are as early as March and April of next year.

00:32:05.000 That's when a lot of primaries are in some states.

00:32:07.000 And so you legitimately have to be done with that and get official party status and identity like right now.

00:32:14.000 And so to your point, even if you paid people to do it, it would be almost impossible because you need a ton of signatures to make official status.

00:32:21.000 But if you did it and you did it now ahead of 2028, it could be really problematic because once you get official.

00:32:36.000 I'm laughing because someone in the chat just said that Steve Witkoff now has to have a meeting with Eli.

00:32:45.000 That's very funny.

00:32:46.000 That's very funny.

00:32:47.000 I mean, all kidding aside, there will be attempts at back channels established here.

00:32:54.000 It's not even a question.

00:32:56.000 This is too important of a line.

00:33:01.000 The scarier part is the attacks that Elon might, if it does continue the way it does, and I agree with Charlie, I don't think it's going to.

00:33:08.000 It's going to get resolved and people are probably going to figure it out because there's nothing for them to get other than if you just have pure animosity and you want to take people out.

00:33:17.000 But this could have implications where if it continued, it would be more challenging for Republicans to retain the House.

00:33:23.000 And if Republicans don't retain the House and Elon does continue saying things along the lines of impeach Trump, that's probably not helpful because they probably will.

00:33:32.000 And then we'll have to go through all that circumstances.

00:33:52.000 And it's really narrow.

00:33:53.000 Today, I think the political report came out.

00:33:56.000 It was one, it was 208 to 207 with like, I can't remember how many in the teens of how many flippable.

00:34:05.000 I mean, this is going to be a really close election for House in the way that it's trending.

00:34:10.000 Honestly, I find it hard to imagine us hanging on to the House if there's any major dissent like this at all.

00:34:17.000 It's razor close.

00:34:18.000 We barely won it in 24. If 2018 is any pattern to go off of, we will not be as strong in an off year with Trump as president than we are with Trump himself on the ballot.

00:34:30.000 In general, incumbents lose seats in the House.

00:34:33.000 In general, incumbents lose seats in the Senate.

00:34:36.000 We're in for a tough fight no matter what.

00:34:38.000 And if the second most famous guy in the 2024 Trump election cycle is now aggressively denouncing Trump, talking about impeaching him, I don't see a way that that's healthy for us in any way whatsoever.

00:34:56.000 Yeah, this is not good.

00:34:57.000 But, I mean, it could be worse, and I think there's going to be reconciliation.

00:35:00.000 You strongly believe that?

00:35:03.000 Yes, I do.

00:35:04.000 I'm not saying anytime soon, but I think that there's too much time, there's too much investment in this country.

00:35:10.000 I don't think Elon wants to see the woke win.

00:35:12.000 I don't think Elon wants to see our adversaries win.

00:35:15.000 And I think that once...

00:35:17.000 It's also just...

00:35:22.000 Yes, yeah, okay.

00:35:23.000 Because it's just kind of sometimes when you're in the tunnel, you don't quite realize what's really going on here.

00:35:29.000 And when history writes the book, they're like, at a time of great peril, when the Mohammedans were taking over and the Chinese were taking over a...

00:35:42.000 Yeah, you could just read about this in history. 0.93

00:35:45.000 I love to always, if you want to think of something strange, you like to kind of step in and zoom out to 10,000 feet and you're thinking, if I'm reading a high school textbook about this, what would it say was ridiculous or dumb?

00:35:57.000 I kind of like to imagine, how would you feel if you opened a textbook and you were reading about the Roman Empire and it said, in the early 300s of the Roman Empire, as barbarians were moving against the gates, so the Romans became consumed.

00:36:08.000 with mutilating their own bodies and you know the Roman men would say that they were actually women and Roman women would say that they were actually men and they were performatively cut themselves like you would think oh these guys are completely deranged so don't we should feel a little off put when we see that today but a similar thing you just read

00:36:40.000 And in the chronology of that empire, they're in the death spiral, you know, circling the drain.

00:36:46.000 And you can just read it where, okay, the only way they could come back is if everyone united against all of their external enemies.

00:36:52.000 And what do they do instead? 0.96

00:36:53.000 They have dumb civil wars. 0.99

00:36:54.000 They squander money on it. 1.00

00:36:56.000 They squander attention on it.

00:36:58.000 In some cases, you just have people directly betraying their country.

00:37:02.000 You said the Mohammedans were at the gates.

00:37:04.000 Do you know how the Turks got into Europe, Charlie?

00:37:07.000 No.

00:37:07.000 A Byzantine emperor fighting in a civil war brought them in as mercenaries, and he let them keep one of the towns that they landed in.

00:37:16.000 And they're like, oh, we're in Europe now.

00:37:18.000 And then they conquered the entire Balkans about 100 years later. 0.97

00:37:21.000 Good job.

00:37:22.000 Good job, bro.

00:37:23.000 So that historical digression is just to say, America has serious problems.

00:37:29.000 They're less than they were six months ago.

00:37:32.000 It's so easy for us to forget because it was so easy, actually.

00:37:36.000 We secured the border.

00:37:37.000 We're not having 5,000 people come across every single day.

00:37:41.000 That's such a win.

00:37:42.000 There's so much good stuff going on.

00:37:44.000 That's such a W. It's such a W that we're getting rid of all the DEI trash that is infesting so many things.

00:37:52.000 Just today, the Supreme Court ruled. 0.95

00:37:54.000 Oh, actually, that part in the law where it says you can't discriminate based on race, that applies to white people, too.

00:38:00.000 You can't discriminate against them either.

00:38:01.000 That's a huge win.

00:38:03.000 There are so many things we can build off of.

00:38:05.000 And it would be a huge tragedy if we lose any of those things because we're falling into a civil war.

00:38:12.000 And I would say this as well, and it's worth saying, is that whatever you think of the big, beautiful bill, I think whatever changes we could make to it, you know, if we pass Trump's version, it's better than what we have now.

00:38:26.000 And if we pass Elon's version, it's better than what we have now.

00:38:29.000 Both, though, are better than just a Biden status quo where you still have the border as bad.

00:38:33.000 And it gets rid of the Biden status quo.

00:38:34.000 It gets rid of his inflation reduction act.

00:38:36.000 Yeah, it gets rid of a lot of great things.

00:38:38.000 And I think it would be a huge tragedy to allow any of that to go under because of some ego fight, because of some sort of just because neither side will give an inch over it.

00:38:50.000 And so I hope Charlie's right that there's reconciliation.

00:38:53.000 I only say on the long game.

00:38:56.000 I don't think this is going to happen in the next week.

00:38:57.000 But I will also say that...

00:39:00.000 The people around Trump are very sophisticated.

00:39:03.000 And I think that there will be multiple attempts to try to, you know, bring folks and bring people together.

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00:40:14.000 Tyler, what do you think?

00:40:15.000 Well, I was just going to say, I think Elon's slightly misreading this too.

00:40:19.000 And I'm not saying that as hyper-criticism, but it's not too far off from DeSantis.

00:40:27.000 I think they're misreading.

00:40:29.000 They're like, well, why isn't Trump doing more on this one specific issue or that specific issue?

00:40:34.000 And just the entire Trump movement, the MAGA movement, is so complex.

00:40:38.000 It's way more complex than I think anyone ever gives it credit for.

00:40:41.000 People oversimplify MAGA.

00:40:43.000 There are so many sides to MAGA and so many different reasons why people at this point have collectively supported the president and trust him.

00:40:51.000 And it's one big blow-up, how big or small it is, really, but even a big one.

00:40:58.000 People just aren't going to come off the president, and they trust the president.

00:41:02.000 And so how they look at this and the messaging that's coming out with the big, beautiful bill that we're talking about, it still does a lot.

00:41:10.000 And the president really has played middleman between Congress, who wants to do practically nothing, and where Elon was.

00:41:16.000 And Elon has lost...

00:41:22.000 And he started it.

00:41:23.000 It wasn't Trump that started it.

00:41:24.000 It was Elon that tweeted out about it first.

00:41:27.000 And so, I mean, I think you have a misread that's going to self-correct.

00:41:32.000 People, like, Elon's really smart.

00:41:34.000 People around him are smart that have worked together.

00:41:37.000 The White House has gone through this a thousand times.

00:41:41.000 They're going to have some reconciliation, and they're going to figure out that the only side that's ever going to get what he wants done is going to be on the right.

00:41:49.000 So, Jack, let's talk about the perspective here of where we as a movement go next.

00:42:02.000 Is it best to largely ignore this?

00:42:04.000 I think that's probably best.

00:42:06.000 We kind of have the blow up dust up again.

00:42:17.000 Is that right?

00:42:17.000 Yeah, okay.

00:42:19.000 Interestingly, though, he might still be pro-JD, because he was like, I want Trump to replace him with JD.

00:42:24.000 So, whatever.

00:42:27.000 Jack, what is the best way forward?

00:42:29.000 Yeah, look, the best way forward, I think, I would agree with you.

00:42:32.000 Like, you have to, and this has got to be clear.

00:42:36.000 There needs to be an addressing of the debt.

00:42:39.000 I think that is a real grievance.

00:42:40.000 You can't spend yourselves into oblivion.

00:42:43.000 And there are real issues with the global – these debt markets, the financial capital markets.

00:42:49.000 They've taken out – the German Chancellor Merz, who was over today at the White House, the entire German government is bankrupt.

00:42:56.000 They're like parabolic, the level of Greece in 2008 they're looking at right now.

00:43:01.000 And a lot of this, of course, has to do with the Ukraine war.

00:43:04.000 There are huge, huge issues of debt that obviously have crippled Japan, that have gone through and taken out multiple governments in the past.

00:43:11.000 So it's absolutely fine to say that this isn't like the H-1B debate, right?

00:43:17.000 You remember that from- But immigration, it was, but immigration is a fundamentally different issue than debt, where the MAGA movement, I think, is very sympathetic to this question.

00:43:31.000 I think the MAGA movement and conservatives in general, and as Tyler's saying, the multifaceted conservative movement wants to cut debt.

00:43:41.000 That's absolutely sure.

00:43:43.000 But at the same time, we as a MAGA movement are not going to And the fact of the matter remains that the political reality is what it is.

00:43:56.000 This was the deportation bill that we were going to get.

00:44:00.000 There is no easier way to get a better deportation bill.

00:44:04.000 It's just not going to happen.

00:44:05.000 This is the real world.

00:44:06.000 This is the way politics works.

00:44:08.000 Nobody likes it.

00:44:08.000 But guess what?

00:44:09.000 That's the system that we have.

00:44:12.000 And so unless you want to go in and change the entire system overnight, which is impossible, you've got to deal with the system that we have and that's There isn't a better option to a better mass deportation bill, period, full stop.

00:44:24.000 So for the movement, I think you see it with Trump signaling.

00:44:27.000 You know, he's saying, I don't have any comments.

00:44:29.000 I'm moving on.

00:44:30.000 I'm doing the next thing.

00:44:31.000 And I think you're going to see the movement, by and large, do that as well, that they are going to move on to the next thing.

00:44:37.000 And President Trump's going to continue having these foreign visits.

00:44:40.000 He may go over to China soon.

00:44:44.000 Obviously, there's still the Ukraine war that's going to go on and the news cycle will He's got a tweet up right now or a truth up right now saying, I don't mind that this happened and I still support the bill.

00:44:57.000 It does have cuts.

00:44:58.000 He's promoting it, calls it the big, beautiful bill.

00:45:00.000 I call it the big, beautiful deportation bill.

00:45:03.000 And he's really signaling that he just wants to get back to the issues at hand.

00:45:09.000 And I think that's what the movement is going to end up doing.

00:45:11.000 Look, Donald Trump is not going to lose his supporters.

00:45:13.000 There's nobody out there who's going to say, oh, I regret voting for Donald Trump because Elon isn't part of the White House anymore.

00:45:19.000 That voter just doesn't exist.

00:45:21.000 I'm sorry, they really don't exist.

00:45:22.000 And so you're going to see that continue.

00:45:25.000 And people want these things done.

00:45:27.000 They just want to see these promises kept.

00:45:30.000 And President Trump is clearly doing that.

00:45:31.000 I'm going to test this on X soon.

00:45:33.000 But I will say, though, that the feedback I'm getting online is not...

00:45:40.000 It's more like, what is Elon doing?

00:45:43.000 At least that's in my circle.

00:45:44.000 I don't know if you guys agree.

00:45:45.000 Totally.

00:45:46.000 Yeah.

00:45:46.000 Would you agree, Tyler?

00:45:47.000 Every single person that's watching this, and in the political that are surrounding us, that are hyper-political, like, hypersensitive, they're like, what?

00:45:56.000 Like, why?

00:45:58.000 Yeah, at least that's what I'm getting.

00:45:59.000 Blake, I don't know if you agree, but that seems to be the current sentiment.

00:46:03.000 I think, truthfully, people have seen a lot of Elon behavior over...

00:46:12.000 Liberals were doing this when they were just turning against him and we still liked him, where they said, oh, Elon is losing it.

00:46:17.000 Elon's getting more and more aggressive and sort of out there behavior.

00:46:22.000 We've seen the funny stuff where he has the women he has kids with and you sort of roll your eyes at it.

00:46:28.000 but at least it's not public.

00:46:29.000 But there's a lot of people who have that sense of, And some of that is, he does, like, this doesn't feel strategic.

00:46:38.000 It feels grandiose.

00:46:41.000 Like, he's thinking, oh, I can just blow up Trump and go start my own political party, and I'm going to just gloat about it on Twitter.

00:46:48.000 Now, in his defense, a different person a decade ago did basically just brag on Twitter that he could go and get himself made president.

00:46:58.000 And he did, in fact, go do that.

00:47:00.000 So you sometimes can have grandiose claims on social media pan out.

00:47:05.000 But I wouldn't say it's super likely.

00:47:08.000 Yeah, and so I have a lot of thoughts I'm not going to say right now.

00:47:13.000 But yeah, I have other things I'll say privately.

00:47:16.000 Yeah, I think, again, I think Elon just kind of overskies with the political movement.

00:47:20.000 Because again, part of politics is this.

00:47:22.000 And don't forget.

00:47:24.000 Elon's built a political apparatus around himself.

00:47:26.000 So America PAC, he invested heavily into.

00:47:29.000 You would assume that any threats that are made are going to be utilizing that.

00:47:36.000 That entity that he's created is very conservative.

00:47:41.000 It's not anything else.

00:47:43.000 It's not made up of Democrats.

00:47:44.000 It's not made up of independents.

00:47:45.000 It's made up of conservatives.

00:47:47.000 And the conservatives that we know are all good people.

00:47:50.000 that are over there and they're not going to be I don't know.

00:47:58.000 Every single person's proclivity to certain people.

00:48:02.000 But they're probably more likely to support people who maybe didn't support Elon in his quest for doge cuts.

00:48:11.000 So he has a really unique situation that's in front of him.

00:48:14.000 And that's kind of insider information, where you look at all this and go, okay, well, there's going to be some He might make some changes.

00:48:21.000 He might make some shifts.

00:48:22.000 He might try to do some things that are damaging.

00:48:24.000 But I think that the more people try to do those things and play those games within politics and presidential politics in particular, it's usually self-harming.

00:48:37.000 And we saw that again with some of the things.

00:48:39.000 We like Ron DeSantis.

00:48:41.000 He's a good guy.

00:48:42.000 He's very friendly with Charlie.

00:48:43.000 Charlie went and sat with him and, and all of that.

00:48:45.000 But some of the people that were around him, It's never been a personal thing with Ron.

00:48:50.000 I have a different take than most people.

00:48:52.000 I try to be very magnanimous.

00:48:54.000 You just saw that DeSantis is sending out fundraising emails based on this, though.

00:48:58.000 Jack, tell us what's going on.

00:48:58.000 Who is?

00:48:59.000 Jack has more of a pulse.

00:49:02.000 Governor Ron DeSantis is like the flu.

00:49:04.000 Jack knows within like an hour.

00:49:08.000 It's like unbelievable.

00:49:09.000 No, it's viral on Twitter.

00:49:10.000 DeSantis has COVID!

00:49:11.000 So, shortly after Elon started going off, Ron DeSantis'PAC sends out an email promoting Elon and Doge and basically...

00:49:29.000 And yes, I do pay attention to counter-signalers because this is what led to Ron DeSantis' campaign in the first place and his completely failed primary where he humiliated and embarrassed himself in front of the entire country.

00:49:41.000 And yeah, so Elon isn't backing down.

00:49:45.000 He leads the fight.

00:49:46.000 And Ron DeSantis isn't going to back down either.

00:49:48.000 Chip in as well.

00:49:49.000 And it came out right after this.

00:49:52.000 Elon Musk took the hits and led the charge, and that came out right at 1.21 p.m.

00:49:58.000 I think that's Eastern.

00:49:59.000 So he's clearly, clearly playing politics here. 0.52

00:50:01.000 And you see, by the way, a lot of the DeSantis people are all over X right now, spreading just ridiculous nonsense about Trump and Epstein, just absolute lies, libel in many cases.

00:50:15.000 And and you're seeing them have an absolute free for all here.

00:50:18.000 So I think there's a lot of people who are kind of looking at Elon in terms of his wallet.

00:50:23.000 And certainly he was involved with that X Spaces when DeSantis first announced was with WhyRefi is one of our best supporters at Turning Point USA.

00:50:39.000 They're supporting our Young Women's Leadership Summit, our Student Action Summit.

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00:51:38.000 Do you think that, um, I feel like it's barely worth talking about.

00:51:49.000 It almost feels like slop fodder.

00:51:53.000 He's just like, oh, Trump is in the Epstein thing.

00:51:55.000 I think we already knew that.

00:51:57.000 No, but the February documents showed that he was in there, but there was no criminality whatsoever.

00:52:01.000 It's literally been litigated a million times.

00:52:04.000 I think Jack said it on Twitter, like, why would you need Russiagate if Trump was involved with Epstein?

00:52:09.000 Why would they try to kill him?

00:52:11.000 Why would they try to bankrupt him?

00:52:12.000 Why would they try to arrest him?

00:52:13.000 Why would they do all of these things?

00:52:14.000 Yeah, and then also, just so we're clear, this is the most...

00:52:17.000 Yeah, exactly, Jack.

00:52:17.000 And some people say, well, you must understand if...

00:52:26.000 They wanted to defeat Trump more than anything else ever in the last year.

00:52:31.000 Like, ever.

00:52:32.000 Like, imagine this.

00:52:33.000 Imagine Kamala Harris wins.

00:52:35.000 You know, she's the nominee in August.

00:52:37.000 And they do the Kamala switch and an Epstein op within a couple weeks.

00:52:41.000 That would have been pretty big.

00:52:43.000 That would have been it.

00:52:43.000 Epstein's already dead at this point.

00:52:45.000 He's already dead.

00:52:46.000 The network's already out there.

00:52:47.000 They've, no, obviously, I would, and by the way, like, I want...

00:52:54.000 I've said it a million times.

00:52:54.000 I want everything released.

00:52:57.000 I've gone as far as I can to literally go to the White House to ask them personally in many cases and spoke to the Attorney General of the United States and the head of the FBI and personally lobbied them directly one-on-one in the White House about this.

00:53:12.000 So please, if there's anything else I can do, let me know because I'm trying here, folks.

00:53:17.000 I'm trying.

00:53:19.000 The idea that they wouldn't have released this when Merrick Garland was in charge of the DOJ and have people be able to put this together, of course they would have.

00:53:31.000 Of course they would have.

00:53:32.000 Ghislaine Maxwell, who's still around, of course they would have put this out for Kamala Harris because who knows?

00:53:38.000 Who knows what that would have done in a close election?

00:53:41.000 I don't think that—I don't know.

00:53:45.000 I mean, it's just so ridiculous to even think about where— It's so obviously not true.

00:53:50.000 Donald Trump kicked, and we have to say this like a million times, Donald Trump kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of his Mar-a-Lago club in 1999 and immediately turned around, before the first arrest, the one where he got the sweetheart deal, even before all that, offered to help do anything he can because he heard that Epstein was coming on to, like, daughters of guests and members and things like this.

00:54:14.000 This story's been told a million times.

00:54:16.000 And believe me, if they could have pinned this on Trump, they would have done so a long, long time ago.

00:54:26.000 45 times.

00:54:27.000 They would have manipulated the whole narrative to blame it all on Trump.

00:54:30.000 Of course.

00:54:30.000 By the way, they would have thrown Bill Clinton under the bus to get rid of Trump.

00:54:33.000 They do that all the time.

00:54:35.000 They'll throw away their old relics.

00:54:37.000 Are you kidding me?

00:54:38.000 Yeah, it's like Al Franken became the African hero for 10 minutes. 0.67

00:54:42.000 They would easily have thrown Bill Clinton into the dustbin of history.

00:54:48.000 And Hillary. 1.00

00:54:48.000 They would have destroyed the whole Clinton thing if it meant getting Kamala Harris as president. 1.00

00:54:53.000 They would have manufactured 90,000.

00:54:56.000 So let's think of all the Palm Beach, like, intelligentsia.

00:55:00.000 They would have thrown out every, like, Palm Beach billionaire.

00:55:02.000 Palm Beach intelligence.

00:55:04.000 No, it's true.

00:55:04.000 Like, that's Palm Beach ruling class.

00:55:06.000 I mean, well, it's just funny because Palm Beach is not, you know, it's not like an intellectual capital.

00:55:11.000 Let's just, fine, Palm Beach ruling class.

00:55:13.000 The Palm Beach billionaire elite.

00:55:16.000 Like if you're the Democrats and you are you're Joe Biden and you have access to the.

00:55:23.000 And you're trying every op.

00:55:25.000 Okay, let's just be clear.

00:55:26.000 They tried to put Donald Trump in prison for 700 years for document stuff and for all this.

00:55:31.000 If they would have had him on Epstein stuff, they probably would have moved on that.

00:55:36.000 Yeah.

00:55:37.000 And at the very least, if the statute of limitations was like beyond... 0.99

00:55:44.000 Jack Smith's investigation would have had a little more oomph if he was like, oh, and Donald Trump is a pedophile.

00:55:49.000 Yeah, or Jack Smith was like, we raided Mar-a-Lago to get information pertaining to the Epstein investigation.

00:55:55.000 Now that would have been like a PR narrative that would have been cooking, right?

00:55:59.000 This idea that after 10 years, all of a sudden, like, we're supposed to believe it, and like, look, I just, it's just so ridiculous in more ways than one.

00:56:09.000 Just because you're listed in a file does not also mean you're, like, a client or you're incriminated.

00:56:14.000 Like, you know how many people, like, a lot of people are listed in the 9-11 commission.

00:56:18.000 Not everyone, Rudy Giuliani's in the 9-11 commission, you know that?

00:56:22.000 He was also the mayor of New York, okay?

00:56:24.000 Rudy Giuliani later worked for Donald Trump, that's right.

00:56:27.000 Oh, he must have done 9-11.

00:56:28.000 Yeah.

00:56:29.000 You know that Donald Trump is a real estate developer?

00:56:31.000 He would have been interested if the towers had gone down.

00:56:34.000 Exactly.

00:56:35.000 And so it's it's kind of like a little bit.

00:56:52.000 After all of this, we're really now doing the Epstein thing?

00:56:57.000 Like, okay.

00:56:58.000 They scoured the planet, Charlie, for the Access Hollywood tape in 2016.

00:57:03.000 Trust me, if they had anything that was out there, they would have released that years ago.

00:57:10.000 It would have been out so fast.

00:57:12.000 Yes, and it's just, again, I just, by the way, we should clip up this little thing we're doing.

00:57:16.000 I'm getting lots of texts from people.

00:57:18.000 People are liking it.

00:57:19.000 So imagine you're like the grand maestro of the Democrat war room, right?

00:57:23.000 You're trying, like, let's defeat Donald Trump.

00:57:26.000 And you have access to the entire federal bureaucracy.

00:57:29.000 So you got Merrick Garland.

00:57:35.000 You got Jack Smith.

00:57:36.000 You control the House.

00:57:36.000 You control the Senate.

00:57:37.000 And here's this, like, bubbling up Trump movement, right?

00:57:41.000 And you decide to go dispatch Alvin Bragg and big Fannie Willis while you're sitting on an Epstein indictment. 0.59

00:57:50.000 You're trying to tell me.

00:57:51.000 They're like, I've got it.

00:57:51.000 We're going to have Fannie Willis indict Trump for making a tweet that people should watch OAN because the Georgia House is in session.

00:57:58.000 We're going to get him on that one.

00:58:01.000 Just understand that we are clear here. 0.70

00:58:04.000 You go have one of the dumbest people ever in the history of criminal justice, Fannie Willis, coupled with Jack Smith, while you're sitting on an Epstein potential indictment that would have actually potentially jeopardized Donald Trump's political campaign. 0.70

00:58:19.000 Yeah. 0.97

00:58:20.000 No, I'm sorry. 0.82

00:58:21.000 It's just beyond rubbish. 0.97

00:58:23.000 Beyond. 1.00

00:58:23.000 It's like so stupid. 1.00

00:58:25.000 You have to be very, very, very low IQ to fall into the traps of They get lots of likes and retweets and things like that on this stuff. 1.00

00:58:42.000 This is what created that whole DeSantis crew that Jack was just talking about.

00:58:47.000 That's what destroyed DeSantis' entire campaign was that kind of stuff.

00:58:51.000 An overly X-driven campaign.

00:58:53.000 I've actually been saying this for a while privately, and I'm going to say it now.

00:58:57.000 We get huge numbers on X. We had a tweet that just got 60 million things.

00:59:01.000 I no longer look to X as the finger on the pulse as I used to.

00:59:06.000 It's kind of like a little bit of a doom loop of a brain rot in the algorithm feed.

00:59:11.000 I actually look more on YouTube at times for kind of a good pulse.

00:59:16.000 Unfortunately, the big thing with X is a lot of the left did leave X. And I think one of the biggest values of Twitter and why it was so atrocious that the left killed the original Twitter the way they did is it was open public free speech platform.

00:59:33.000 Elon Musk brought back the free speech, but the left hates free speech now, so they all went to Blue Sky so that they could become unhinged on it together.

00:59:40.000 And that, plus the monetization of it, it threw off the balance of it a bit.

00:59:46.000 Plus, AI bots.

00:59:47.000 There's a lot of AI bots.

00:59:48.000 There's a ton.

00:59:50.000 Again, I don't want to smash X too much.

00:59:52.000 We still love it.

00:59:54.000 I am immensely glad Elon bought it.

00:59:57.000 Again, Elon can unfollow me.

00:59:59.000 He could shadowban me.

01:00:00.000 I don't care.

01:00:01.000 I will die at the stake on the intellectual purity that our civilization is, is like, is infinitely better.

01:00:08.000 It is standards of deviation better because Elon decided to park what 40, $42 billion, whatever it was, $420.

01:00:21.000 We are a better country because of it.

01:00:23.000 And we should thank him for that.

01:00:25.000 It's very important.

01:00:26.000 We're glad you did that, Elon.

01:00:28.000 Thank you for buying X. We remain committed to that.

01:00:32.000 You can simultaneously also say, be like, this is not a good 24 hours, okay?

01:00:36.000 You are hoping Donald Trump gets impeached.

01:00:39.000 And you're also being like, oh.

01:00:41.000 He's on the Epstein file list.

01:00:43.000 Then why are you hanging around with him so much?

01:00:45.000 There's a lot of contradictions here.

01:00:48.000 It's not the own that you think it is.

01:00:49.000 I think they're just kind of going to be a little bit like, boop, boop, backpedal.

01:00:53.000 And I also just say, we're all on Team America.

01:00:56.000 We can all reconcile here.

01:00:58.000 It's all good.

01:00:59.000 The enemy is the left.

01:01:00.000 The enemy is the Marxist.

01:01:02.000 We know what they are.

01:01:03.000 And we still control the White House, everybody.

01:01:05.000 We're still in control.

01:01:08.000 Yeah.

01:01:08.000 And honestly, I think that's one of the most disastrous things.

01:01:11.000 And the lessons that we need to learn from stuff like this is to have conservative activists, and particularly the activist class.

01:01:19.000 So you have an activist base that's on X in particular that has to learn how to...

01:01:36.000 I think that we have a lot of members of Congress.

01:01:39.000 There's a few.

01:01:40.000 Some of them are very interesting.

01:01:42.000 One's from South Carolina that sometimes gets into some of the stuff where it just absorbs so much shock instead of people going out and doing things that are going to be impactful for the movement.

01:01:54.000 And I say this because running an activist organization with Turning Point Action, you have to have people focused on end goals that are positive.

01:02:03.000 Yes.

01:02:03.000 And when they're doing that, then you have less of this stuff.

01:02:09.000 All you're doing is spending your time just kind of falling into, what is Trump saying?

01:02:16.000 And what is Elon saying?

01:02:17.000 You're not doing stuff to actually save the conservative movement in the country.

01:02:20.000 This is not TMZ.

01:02:22.000 We've got a DTMZ politics.

01:02:25.000 This is like the Drake and Kendrick Lamar thing.

01:02:29.000 I knew nothing about that.

01:02:31.000 I only knew about it because kids would ask about it on campus.

01:02:34.000 It's not constructive.

01:02:36.000 The war of words means there's nothing fruitful here.

01:02:41.000 At the same time, we just have to take a deep breath and keep the main thing And I harbor no resentment whatsoever because I actually want to save the country.

01:02:53.000 You can call me all these different names.

01:02:55.000 Do you know how many people that have attacked me over the last couple?

01:03:07.000 And by the way, we're at the 13-year anniversary of Turning Point USA today.

01:03:12.000 13 years.

01:03:13.000 And people have been attacked.

01:03:14.000 It's very good.

01:03:15.000 Thank you.

01:03:16.000 Thank you, Blake.

01:03:18.000 It's very fitting that this all happens on the 13th.

01:03:21.000 Today of all days.

01:03:23.000 Lucky 13th birthday.

01:03:24.000 But it's just...

01:03:30.000 You have to be very magnanimous.

01:03:32.000 You have to be very willing to forgive and to move on.

01:03:36.000 And I think that there is a moment where we need to allow this to kind of just pass.

01:03:47.000 Eventually de-escalate.

01:03:49.000 It's so funny to think.

01:03:50.000 Imagine if this was 50 years ago and they had a fight.

01:03:54.000 This would just be an article in Time magazine like a month after it happened.

01:03:57.000 And then maybe someone would write about it in their memoirs later.

01:04:00.000 But now it happens instantaneously.

01:04:03.000 And like 50 years ago no one would have noticed or paid attention.

01:04:06.000 It would just be some drama.

01:04:07.000 the president, one of his businessman advisors.

01:04:09.000 But in the modern age, they have a falling out and It just drives home the difference between now and the past.

01:04:25.000 Final thoughts, Jack?

01:04:27.000 Yeah, people supported Donald Trump because they like Donald Trump and they like his policies.

01:04:33.000 That's what this comes down to.

01:04:35.000 If Donald Trump delivers on the policies, the tax relief, the immigration reform, the mass deportations, foreign policy, the rest of it, Maha, of course, then the coalition stands.

01:04:48.000 And it's as simple as that.

01:04:49.000 That's what shifted the needle in 2024.

01:04:51.000 That's what shifted the votes. 0.78

01:04:53.000 And Charlie, you and I have talked about this.

01:04:56.000 If he's able to deliver even more tax relief from middle class or working class, not only will. 0.67

01:05:08.000 It's really as simple as that.

01:05:10.000 And I think people need to take a step back, stay frosty.

01:05:14.000 I'm staying frosty.

01:05:15.000 I am sub-zero.

01:05:17.000 I am maintaining maximum levels of frigidity right now.

01:05:21.000 Politics is still politics.

01:05:23.000 Okay, Donald Trump's in a feud.

01:05:25.000 Men fight.

01:05:26.000 Big news, big deal.

01:05:27.000 Get over it.

01:05:28.000 Focus on the policies.

01:05:32.000 It's all going to be okay.

01:05:34.000 Again, I will say right here, you can mark it down.

01:05:37.000 By Christmas, maybe before that, there will be like a surprise Elon Musk comes for dessert at Mar-a-Lago.

01:05:45.000 You know, leaked New York Times.

01:05:47.000 Elon Musk spotted at Mar-a-Lago.

01:05:49.000 I'm just saying.

01:05:50.000 If you nail that one, I guess I'll just be really impressed.

01:05:56.000 I could be wrong.

01:05:57.000 I'm just saying, by Christmas.

01:05:59.000 Don't be shocked if all of a sudden you're going to see like a Elon Musk cameo just coming by for a little bit of like a little sundae, you know, a little bit of a nice, you know, with extra chocolate sauce and M&M's, right?

01:06:11.000 He can't have extra Trump's the only one that gets two scoops.

01:06:13.000 That's right.

01:06:14.000 Two scoops, two terms, two assassination attempts.

01:06:18.000 Two Musk reconciliations.

01:06:21.000 There we go.

01:06:22.000 There we go.

01:06:23.000 And again, I want to just say one other thing.

01:06:25.000 Elon.

01:06:26.000 Had a blow-up with President Trump back in 2017.

01:06:28.000 It wasn't of this magnitude, but he was on some sort of advisory thing, and he left it, and he blew up, and he left Trump.

01:06:36.000 There's a waxing, there's a waning, there's an up, and there's a down, and then there's valleys, and there's troughs.

01:06:42.000 I'm going to be a little contrarian here, because I think I am in a unique position, because I actually know both of these guys.

01:06:51.000 I don't know Elon nearly as well as the president, but I've spent a lot of time with Elon the last six months.

01:06:56.000 And he's really good to me.

01:06:57.000 That's great.

01:06:58.000 And I harbor no resentment that he unfollowed me and whatever he feels, he feels.

01:07:02.000 And tomorrow will be a new day.

01:07:04.000 Subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show podcast, everybody.

01:07:05.000 Take out your phone and type in Charlie Kirk Show podcast.

01:07:08.000 Check out Jack Posobiec's show, Human Events Daily.

01:07:11.000 Jack does an amazing job.

01:07:12.000 You guys can subscribe there as well.

01:07:14.000 This was a flash episode of Thought Crime.

01:07:16.000 We have a lot more to do.

01:07:18.000 This was really great.

01:07:19.000 Email me now, freedom at charliekirk.com, how you guys are thinking about this.

01:07:23.000 What side are you on?

01:07:24.000 What team are you on?

01:07:25.000 I think it's actually going to all be okay.

01:07:27.000 I think cooler heads are going to prevail, and I am long on America, and I think that we're going to figure this one out.

01:07:34.000 Talk to you guys soon.

01:07:35.000 God bless.

01:07:36.000 Keep committing thought crimes.

01:07:37.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:07:39.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:07:41.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - June 06, 2025

THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 86 — Trump v. Musk, Battle of the Bill(ionaires)

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