00:01:04.000Done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:10.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:02:54.000So, I think a lot of these pledges are kind of silly at this point because we all know the situation that we're in in the party.
00:03:03.000You've got these two wings fighting it out, and in many ways, MAGA itself represents a real third party in America, it just happens to be within.
00:03:15.000The Republican Party within the framework of the Republican Party, fighting for dominance within that party.
00:03:21.000And so, this idea that, oh, we're all going to be kumbaya, really?
00:03:24.000Does that mean that Mitt Romney is going to come out and support Trump when he wins the nomination?
00:03:28.000Does that mean that all the Republicans that are going to do, you know, run against him and they're not going to undercut Trump?
00:03:39.000The New York Times has got the Federalist Society putting out articles today saying, oh, Donald Trump, the conservative case for disqualifying Trump.
00:03:54.000And the fact that Trump was the first person ever in Republican politics to say and just raise his hand and say, I will not support the eventual nominee, that's the reason he won.
00:04:25.000They're probably going to like try to kick me off the RNC for saying this, probably, but I don't think that Donald Trump should sign the pledge.
00:04:45.000Personally, I would never support Mike Pence.
00:04:47.000I would never support a pledge to support Mike Pence.
00:04:50.000So, like, no, why would you sign that?
00:04:52.000That shouldn't be a qualifier to get on the stage.
00:04:54.000Now, the only part I'll disagree with, and it's just kind of a minor disagreement, is that there are I actually don't think there are three parties in the country.
00:05:34.000And there's a lot of Democrats that are figuring this out and they're switching over.
00:05:39.000And so the party has to become the party of freedom and not relent to what is the Uniparty, which is the left, which is what people say all the time.
00:05:49.000There's no difference between Republicans and Democrats when the Uniparty is in control.
00:05:53.000The Uniparty is not in control right now.
00:05:56.000I love that you just brought up ranked choice, but real quick, that you brought up ranked choice voting because I just saw recently there's a legal filing because they've considered ranked choice voting in DC.
00:06:05.000And obviously, they're trying to get ranked choice voting in every single red state, every Republican jurisdiction.
00:06:10.000And then it comes up in D.C., and there's a legal filing that's like, we can't have ranked choice voting, guys, because it's too confusing to Democratic voters.
00:06:18.000It will keep them from electing Democrats.
00:06:20.000No, it said somewhere, this will confuse African American voters.
00:06:27.000So literally, they're admitting straight up in San Francisco, where it's not working, in Vermont, where they kicked it out, in D.C., the most Democrat.
00:06:37.000Areas in America, they're admitting this is not good for minority voters because it limits people's access to the ballot.
00:06:44.000And it's just, and they've done this before.
00:06:48.000Eric Holder once sued a town in, I think, North Carolina that tried to do nonpartisan elections because they said, like, this would keep, this will confuse black people because then they won't know who the Democrat is.
00:06:58.000And it is the constitutional right of black people to vote for the Black People Party, which is the Democratic Party.
00:07:18.000They want to create a controllable falsetto.
00:07:22.000There's a radical left that still dresses normally, basically.
00:07:28.000But on the pledge thing, just to get it really back to what the alleged topic is, the thing that's really dumb about it is we literally did this seven years ago, guys, when they were all like, Trump has to sign the pledge.
00:09:51.000He just said, Chris Christie said, I will sign whatever it takes to get me on stage, but I am not going to actually do what the piece of paper says.
00:09:59.000It shows the RNC has zero enforcement mechanism.
00:10:30.000We were having conversations before our.
00:10:33.000Are because, like, what the heck is legal or illegal?
00:10:35.000It's like if you breathe in the wrong direction with a MAGA head on, you're going to federal prison for 10 years.
00:10:39.000But it's you know, I can't even pinpoint it.
00:10:42.000The RNC has become so illegitimate, they're such a laughing stock that Chris Christie says, I'll sign your piece of paper, and I don't mean it.
00:10:49.000Trump has not signed the piece of paper.
00:10:51.000And but the real truth, Jack, the real question, Jack Posobic, is can we?
00:10:56.000I want to see Mike Pence's voter file, I do, uh, donor file.
00:10:59.000I do not believe he has 40,000 donors.
00:11:01.000Did he give out some gift cards that we were unaware of, Jack?
00:11:09.000There was this article back when Hillary ran in 2008, and Rush Limbaugh used to talk about it all the time.
00:11:16.000And I think it was the New York Times had found it.
00:11:18.000This is when all of these Chinatown, like just residents of Chinatown in San Francisco, New York City, were maxing out to Hillary Clinton all over the place.
00:11:28.000And then the New York Times was like, oh, that's great.
00:11:31.000They actually went and looked up some of the people, and they found that it was like busboys and people like, Washing dishes.
00:11:39.000They're, you know, they're scrimping together and they're saving all so they can max out to Hillary Clinton.
00:11:43.000And Rush was like, No, it's very obvious what's going on here.
00:11:47.000There's members of the Chinese Communist Party that are walking around in New York City and San Francisco, handing them the money and telling them to hand it to Hillary Clinton.
00:11:57.000Pence has got a Chinese money laundering scheme.
00:11:59.000I'm not saying he's coming from China, but I'm saying he's probably using straw donors or something like that in order to get himself up to the 40,000 limit.
00:12:20.000George, I'll be on the debate stage and I will take the pledge that the RNC puts in front of me just as seriously as Donald Trump did eight years ago.
00:12:28.000When he signed the pledge, as Ryan's previous went up there and begged him to do it, and then on the first debate stage, he didn't raise his hand to say he would support the nominate.
00:12:37.000I will do whatever I have to do, George, to be on that stage and to be able to make the case to the American people that there is a need for new leadership.
00:12:45.000And I'll take the pledge just as seriously as Donald Trump did eight years ago.
00:12:48.000So you're saying you're going to take the pledge, but you don't really mean it?
00:12:52.000No, what I'm saying, George, is that I'm going to do exactly what the RNC has set us up to do.
00:12:58.000Eight years ago, Donald Trump signed the pledge and then absolutely disregarded it in the first debate, and there was absolutely no penalty for that.
00:13:05.000I'm going to do whatever I need to do to save my party and save my country.
00:13:10.000I mean, he's not going to do anything that he needs to do because there's one obvious thing that he should have done.
00:14:01.000He's a big talker when we're a few miles away from each other.
00:14:08.000He's got a lot to say when he's got a phone in his hand posting something on social media.
00:14:16.000We're going to know what he's really made of if we see whether he shows up two weeks from tonight or not on that stage, because I'll tell you one thing for sure.
00:14:26.000I will be there and I am waiting for him.
00:14:36.000Because where I grew up and the way I was raised was a man who has something to say to another man comes up to him and looks him in the eye and says it to him.
00:15:43.000So, you know, it's interesting to me because I'll say a couple of things.
00:15:48.000I mean, right off the bat, we know there's at least one candidate on the campaign trail right now that is definitely not on Ozempic, and that is Chris Christie.
00:17:29.000I think he will probably skip the first one.
00:17:31.000But I think he has that natural read on what makes people talk about him the most.
00:17:37.000And there's got to be a scenario where he somehow ends up on the debate stage and just totally blows everyone away.
00:17:43.000He has to remind everyone, like, wherever I go, I am the number one most important person.
00:17:47.000And if he never shows up, the press will try to come up with this thing where they're like, oh, you know, we're getting Haley Mentum from the debate stage.
00:17:55.000And they'll try to create a narrative.
00:17:57.000And the best way to scuttle that is you just blow it up by having him show up once, obviously dominate the debate stage.
00:18:03.000And then he doesn't need to show up again, probably.
00:18:07.000Yeah, I think he doesn't need to show up to this first debate.
00:19:51.000They probably got a million of those lines because a lot of this is the same, you know, a lot of the infrastructure from Ted Cruz that's come over.
00:22:17.000And like, everyone comes to Bedminster.
00:22:20.000They would totally come, but they would like, forget all this like parameters and RNC stuff and Fox News.
00:22:26.000By the way, it'd be like the most watched thing ever.
00:22:29.000Get them to come to Bedminster and then just like blow them off and go to a McDonald's and buy McDonald's for a bunch of people and then like forget about it.
00:22:45.000I mean, obviously, Trump should debate at least once.
00:22:49.000I think he should make sure that Tucker should be up there.
00:22:52.000I think he's got to think about the general electorate, not just the primary electorate.
00:22:56.000But, Charlie, to your point, there's precedent for that because that's exactly what Reagan did.
00:23:00.000That's where we got that line I paid for this microphone, that he actually went, established his own debate, set up a new empire thing, and it was New Hampshire.
00:24:21.000One customer said, I've been taking field of greens.
00:24:24.000And this is the second time that my doctor has danced into the room, praising my blood result.
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00:26:35.000We have our incredible staff in the Midwest.
00:26:37.000All present and killing it at the Iowa State Fair.
00:26:40.000We have a massive booth and you can read it.
00:26:43.000I don't know if we can get a picture up.
00:26:44.000I can send it over, but probably not on here.
00:26:47.000But it says, Lead your precinct, lead your country.
00:26:49.000And right now we are recruiting hundreds and upon hundreds of people to become precinct committeemen in the state of Iowa and also get involved with the caucuses.
00:26:58.000So we're going to have, I think, thousands of people that we are now going to be motivating to make sure they get out to their caucuses across the state of Iowa so that we get the best possible result for a candidate come caucus.
00:27:58.000It's the western part of Michigan near Grand Rapids.
00:28:01.000And it's this police report where a county official calls the police and says, hey, we're getting all of these ballot applications dropped off.
00:28:10.000I believe it's that you would send out a ballot application, send it in, and then they would mail you the ballot because they were doing all the mail ballots.
00:28:17.000And one person is dropping off thousands of these, about 10,000 total, they estimated.
00:28:22.000And Muskegon County's only got 175,000 people.
00:28:25.000So if you Account for whose kids and everything.
00:28:28.000It's like one out of every 13 voters in Muskegon County had this ballot application dropped off by one person.
00:28:35.000And they're like, We're looking at them, and a lot of them seem really, really similar.
00:28:40.000And so the cops go in and investigate.
00:28:44.000It's not clear from the police report whether this is all the ones that were suspicious or if they just sort of took some examples to then look into it further.
00:28:53.000And they're like, Okay, well, one, a lot of these seem to have made up addresses that are not real addresses.
00:28:59.000Some of them have the same signature and it doesn't match what's already on file because, again, these are ballot applications, so they often already had signatures on file for their voter registrations and such, and now they're different.
00:29:10.000They start exploring this more and more, and they find one of the people whose name is here.
00:29:15.000She says, Yeah, I filled out this form, but I didn't sign it.
00:29:18.000I don't know who signed it or how it ever got to you.
00:29:21.000They just find all these red flags, and then they go to the actual place of business where this is held.
00:29:26.000It's a GBI Strategies, I think, is the name of the firm.
00:29:30.000GBI strategies they investigate their place and they just find more strange things.
00:29:34.000They find more ballot applications half finished.
00:29:37.000They find uh eight firearms in pelican boxes, a mixture of semi automatic rifles and custom pistols, nothing wrong with suppressors like it's a James Bond movie or something.
00:29:50.000And they were apparently legally owned guns, so I'm glad they're not doing illegal gun trafficking to our knowledge.
00:29:56.000But they had these guns, and somewhere on a whiteboard, they had in a phrase and they didn't note what the purpose of this was, but someone wrote on a whiteboard like major topics.
00:30:07.000You know, maybe they meant like we need to be weapons in the field because we're going to go win the election for Brandon, who they weren't calling Brandon yet, but that's how ahead of the times they were.
00:30:36.000And so obviously the big picture thing is, Muskegon County by itself did not swing Michigan, but this company was active nationwide in a lot of different places.
00:30:45.000They got, it looks like, many millions of dollars from the Democrats.
00:30:49.000They were elsewhere in Michigan, they were in other states.
00:30:52.000And if the fate of this investigation was we found all this weird stuff and then we just decided collectively we're not going to look at it anymore, how often did that happen in the incredibly fair election that was 2020?
00:31:06.000So you weren't thrilled with the article, though.
00:31:08.000I wasn't thrilled with the article because let me bring up the headline here.
00:32:36.000One thing I disliked with this article is they loop it in with like the old footage from 2020 of like a van pulling up in, I think, Wayne County, Michigan to whatever center it was.
00:32:46.000I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head.
00:32:48.000But it's like, guys, that van, like, it's been discussed.
00:33:34.000I was going to say, the reason they picked that video is because that wasn't, I remember this from 2020, that was an exclusive video obtained by the Gateway Pundit.
00:33:41.000So, I think all they're doing there is just referring back to their own reporting.
00:33:45.000We do that at Postmillennial and Human Events every day.
00:33:48.000Well, okay, but then they're referring back to a story that essentially didn't go anywhere and it actually proved to be a huge distraction.
00:33:54.000And that's where I would critique this.
00:33:56.000For the right, when we care a lot about election integrity.
00:34:00.000And I think with a lot of cases, we get sort of carried away with believe every alleged case of election integrity or of election fraud.
00:34:09.000When what would be much better for us as a party and a movement is if we could just decisively prove and get someone convicted, even on a single one, even if it doesn't change the result of the election.
00:34:19.000If we put in a lot of resources to figure out exactly what happened in Muskegon County and found a criminal and convicted them, that would do a lot more than like, Really wild allegations of ballot mirrors or whatever that go nowhere.
00:34:31.000My defense is not going to be as specific.
00:34:33.000It will be more general of the Gateway Pundit, which is that there is a role for boundary pushing, headline grabbing type of journalism, publishing that does, let's just say, add an element of excitement and an element of sexiness.
00:34:52.000At the same time, I agree we must always be anchored to the truth.
00:34:56.000However, here's what I'll say The Gateway Pundit.
00:34:59.000They will engage in what would be considered third race rail stories.
00:35:02.000And I'm glad because there needs to be an organization that does that.
00:35:06.000Sometimes you're going to come up empty, or sometimes you're going to find out that Epstein Island is legit.
00:35:28.000Like, the New York Times, the thing about it is, the New York Times is a very biased outlet, but they're biased in what they choose to cover.
00:35:35.000They're biased in how they frame everything.
00:36:42.000It doesn't matter if 800,000 is the correct number.
00:36:45.000The reality is, it probably is hundreds of thousands of improperly registered people.
00:36:52.000And what we know at Turning Point Action, the research that we've done, And taking the Democrats' own research, they know they get one vote for every two people they register.
00:37:02.000That's the number across, that's their numbers.
00:37:05.000They tell all of their groups, their outside C4s, that if you can register two young people, one of them we can get to vote, meaning we can chase their ballot, we can harvest their ballot, and go from there.
00:37:18.000We know in Michigan, the game that they're playing is they're trying to either falsely register.
00:37:25.000Or accurately registered, it doesn't really matter at this point because it doesn't matter if you're a warm, live body, you're dead or you're non existent in the Democrat world because all that matters is the paper that results in that registration because they're going to figure out a way to deliver the ballot, the paper ballot, to the mailbox and that ultimately gets to the processing center.
00:38:15.000It may not be 800,000, but if it's half that, that's 400,000.
00:38:20.000And that means that on the Democrats' notes alone, they expect out of that 400,000 that got registered, 200,000 to get returned.
00:38:29.000That should scare every single person that's witnessing and listening to this story.
00:38:33.000And that's where I don't think they're actually sewing up this story, to your point, which is like, well, what's the meaning of this, right?
00:38:40.000And we don't always get there, actually, because Gateway Cupundit will come out with something and then the moderates will be like, oh, I'm embarrassed because I got one fact wrong because they said that the sky was cloudy and it was really a clear blue sky that day.
00:39:56.000So, why do you need to do the one that gets you demonetized everywhere?
00:40:01.000And it makes it way too easy to basically just say, oh, you guys are a bunch of cranks and we don't need to listen to you.
00:40:07.000And I think, I don't think it does, I get why it happens, but I don't think it does the right a lot of credit.
00:40:14.000And I guess I would ask, what's like the big political victory that we won because of like a Gateway Pundit article that was written that way?
00:40:26.000I think Jim and his brother Joe, who has an excellent book series on this entire, well, prior to this report, I should say, everything that we've learned prior to this report are fantastic.
00:40:38.000And on the journalistic point, you've got to give them credit because the Gateway Pond actually did unearth this report.
00:40:44.000So we wouldn't even be here talking about the quality of the headline if it wasn't for the fact that they actually did do the digging and they were dogged on the story.
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00:42:28.000Provo Utah, yesterday morning, the FBI raided a 75 year old man.
00:42:36.000Living on a suburban street, suburban neighborhood.
00:42:40.000Man weighs 300 pounds, walked with a cane, had trouble getting around by himself, takes care of his blind son.
00:42:46.000They raided him in a pre dawn raid, full Bearcat SWAT truck that came up with them, rifles drawn at maximum, screaming at him at 6 15 in the morning.
00:43:40.000Posted this, as well as a few other people have posted out and verified it.
00:43:44.000And this, they were, so they were serving a search and arrest warrant against making threats on President Biden, making threats on Kamala Harris, as well.
00:43:54.000And there's a number of other federal officials on this individual.
00:43:59.000But what's very interesting is that the FBI had actually had this guy under surveillance physically, either starting or occurring all the way back in March of this year.
00:44:12.000at his home in March of this year after visiting him or after following him to church where they watched him attend services and then get into the car with another individual, confronted him at his home, asked him about the posts.
00:44:26.000He told them come back with the warrant.
00:44:28.000Apparently, they did come back with the warrant here several months later.
00:44:33.000And they claim at this point that he was brandishing a gun, and that is why they decided to open fire, killed him, and hailed a bullet.
00:44:56.000I just want to make sure we communicate that.
00:44:59.000That one of the posts he said, FBI, next time you come to my door, you know, let me know because I'm going to have a loaded gun waiting for you.
00:45:07.000Well, and he has all of the posts are extremely inflammatory.
00:45:28.000Someone in their life, maybe not necessarily in your family, but I'm sure that you know someone in your life who's in that age range that posts like this.
00:45:35.000Look, here's what I'll say is that some people on the sinister left are doing the FAFO stuff, right?
00:46:04.000If Taha Nisi Coates, the BLM author, wrote that and he was raided by the FBI and killed, I don't think we'd be like, oh my goodness.
00:46:11.000But he wouldn't because that's the secret.
00:46:13.000But he wouldn't be raided as a huge guy.
00:46:14.000He's like, you're cutting all the contact out.
00:46:18.000That black people are never raided by the FBI.
00:46:21.000I mean, the point, I mean, the issue is.
00:46:24.000Regular black writers like that, celebrities that have called for killing President Trump, celebrities that have called for doing all sorts of things to Trump's family, to Baron Trump.
00:47:28.000It's the thing that if you've been around the right a long time, it'll pop up on Facebook, on our.
00:47:34.000Internet forums in real life at the Thanksgiving dinner with a lot from the guy, like this unfortunate man who was just killed by the FBI.
00:47:41.000And it's this, like, we're headed for a civil war.
00:47:43.000Like, I don't see how this can end peacefully.
00:47:45.000This is going to end in a, sometimes the line they'll use is national divorce, which is maybe the peaceful version of this, split the country.
00:47:52.000And the reason we put this in the topic in the show is I think we could have the debate, like, is this, is this cope?
00:47:57.000Which is, there's sort of, I think there's an apocalyptic bias in a lot of conservative people where it's like, it seems really hard to imagine, like, oh, change the system politically.
00:48:08.000You know, win elections, change your city, change your state, change the country.
00:48:12.000And instead, it's so much more comforting to think like the Democrats, they're going to screw up so bad that there'll just be this explosion and there'll be this like glorious redemption and we'll win this civil war somehow.
00:48:23.000Even though we don't have the army, we don't have the FBI, we don't have the police, we don't have the corporations, we would basically just be a bunch of like, we're all like cripplingly obese.
00:48:31.000So we'd be a bunch of fat people with guns and you win a civil war.
00:49:27.000We're trying to get the audio cleaned up.
00:49:29.000I've even seen people on Twitter that have cleaned this up where they've taken the explosion out to see if you can hear any voices or anything in that.
00:49:54.000It's hard to tell what's being said or who's saying what, basically.
00:49:59.000But then a flashbang goes off and then the video cuts off because the guy, I guess the guy either stopped filming or that's the only part of the film that he's.
00:50:18.000To me, that ends up, we sound a lot like, you know, these Antifa every single time.
00:50:22.000You know, one of them is, you know, he was just turning his life around and then the police showed up and shot him just because he pulled a gun out of his waistband and waved it like a maniac.
00:50:30.000And there is an element of, you know, play very stupid games and win very stupid games.
00:50:37.000Which I'm not exactly sympathetic with, but yeah, go ahead, Jack.
00:50:42.000But that's not what I've seen people say online, right?
00:50:44.000I haven't seen anyone necessarily defend the, you know, try to say that the guy didn't do anything wrong.
00:50:50.000I haven't seen anyone say anything like that.
00:50:52.000What I have seen people say was, why did the FBI decide to do this when, and I'd love to do this too, that, you know, we have a photo and I posted this on Twitter earlier, and the New York Post actually ran it, where this was a guy who was not only well known and well liked in his community, he was a carpenter who had just put together a ramp for like a disabled neighbor, someone who's pretty well known, a regular churchgoer.
00:51:20.000It seemed like there were probably ways to do this that would have been better and safer, not only for the defendant, in this case the suspect, but probably safer for the FBI agents too.
00:51:33.000That's definitely fair, I think, that there's almost kind of the thing like when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
00:51:40.000When all you have is your whole SWAT loadout to go around and raid anyone who posts something insane on Facebook, everyone looks like a domestic terrorist.
00:51:48.000So, to be fair, this is a normal church activity to do this kind of stuff within Mormon culture.
00:54:37.000That she was like a normal soccer playing woman who didn't act like this at all until she got a taste of the spotlight and until she started chasing that dragon of more dopamine hits, I'm fighting for equal rights or equal pay, et cetera, et cetera.
00:54:57.000And then suddenly goes and blows it at the last minute.
00:54:59.000But keep in mind that this is the same U.S. women's team that also lost, I think it was to Blake, what was it, the 15 and under club?
00:55:19.000And yeah, I was just thinking, you said, you know, she used to be a normal soccer playing woman, and now it's like you put each of those in quotes.
00:55:25.000So it'd be like normal soccer playing woman.
00:55:52.000You know, she took it over for this like vanity political project and made it, you know, a politics thing instead of a national pride thing and made it so, like, and then, you know, oh, what was my greatest career highlight?
00:56:02.000Like making it so that our men's national team is worse because we have to divert all this funding to this like ascended middle school squad to win their World Cup.
00:56:11.000And, you know, I think it's very American for us to be very annoyed by that.
00:56:15.000And, To see a come up and see a form of, I think new American is the phrase, right?
00:56:31.000And then, like, he woke up one day, he's like, you know, Nike's not there and everybody's not there and you lose and you don't make teams and then everybody's like laughing at you.
00:56:40.000She's kind of coming to this realization that, like, maybe, hopefully, that everybody really does, like, There's more haters than lovers.
00:56:50.000More people are now talking about women's soccer and actually watching women's soccer because of them losing than if they actually would have been in the final.
00:56:57.000And this is like Britney Griner at the WNBA, right?
00:56:59.000It's like nothing made me more irritated than seeing a full stadium walking a Britney Griner home.
00:57:05.000It's like, I'm sure the left is going to try to turn this into like some heroes arc, you know, like she's down and out and like she's going to come back and they're going to do some kind of crap to like.
00:57:16.000I think this was her last game, though.
01:00:16.000No, in all seriousness, though, I can totally see her running for office, and that disturbs me.
01:00:21.000And there's going to be a lot of that, by the way.
01:00:23.000I think there's going to be, I think the unfortunate, if we're successful in making sure that we have a Republican president this next election cycle, I think you're going to see a huge swing to the opposite, where the left is going to be running more celebrity style candidates, even more so than they do now, because they're not.
01:00:50.000And so I think there's going to be positives and negatives to that.
01:00:53.000The positive is that I think it's going to actually put us in a place where we can make sure that we win as long as we have the infrastructure for that.
01:01:01.000The negative is you're going to have like Megans as U.S. senators.
01:01:04.000And that's going to be a real problem.
01:01:54.000I think that we are going to see a place where, because, okay, so America has broken essentially into several camps at this point.
01:02:03.000You know, obviously, Tyler was completely wrong when he disagreed with me earlier on this, but, and I was completely right, as per usual.
01:02:11.000And then, because America has become more polarized and essentially more tribal, If Megan Rapinoe can find an area where there's just enough people in her tribe, that's why what Tyler's saying is right about either a Senate seat, definitely there are congressional seats that she could run for.
01:02:31.000I know y'all have an interesting senator there in Arizona, by the way, who's not exactly like this, but definitely an interesting sort of bird herself.
01:04:55.000He has really significantly enriched my life.
01:04:57.000So when I found out Jordan Peterson, who I have respect for, but I obviously disagree on some things, and Dennis were doing this Exodus series, I got really excited by the Daily Wire.
01:05:09.000Way, way, way, way long time ago, because I saw all of a sudden, I don't know where they started talking about pornography in this kind of Exodus series.
01:05:15.000I was like, well, that's probably going to make people interested.
01:05:26.000I could point to like a 1990 lecture where he said the same thing.
01:05:30.000Now, so isolated from that Exodus clip, Daily Wire, it went viral on YouTube because Dennis said something basically it could be interpreted as normalizing pornography in marriage.
01:05:42.000And so then he goes on a long form interview with Pints with Aquinas, which is a great YouTube channel.
01:05:48.000I think he's in Steubenville, Ohio, right, Jack?
01:07:05.000So, where I'll say it, Charlie, I saw it the opposite way that you saw it because I saw it the way you just described in that I saw this clip first.
01:07:13.000And then I think the very first thing I did was I was like, I kind of messaged Charlie to make sure he saw this thing.
01:08:13.000So I think there's a couple things going on here, though.
01:08:16.000I think just at its first and foremost, that watching pornography of any form, of any form, now he's talking about the reason they say animated in this point is because they're doing a thought experiment, they're performing a thought experiment.
01:08:31.000And so to take out the fact that a human being would be involved in either exploited or trafficked or whatever have you.
01:08:41.000Regarding the creation of this particular form of pornography.
01:08:45.000I think, though, that in that case, whether it's animated or not, I don't even think animated is the right word to use anymore.
01:08:53.000What we should actually use is the word AI, because that's going to be the next level of pornography AI porn.
01:09:01.000These systems that we don't have much control over, just like the way my TV likes to go off right when I'm in the middle of monologuing.
01:09:08.000But essentially, that the viewing of this corrupts you, regardless of whether or not people are in.
01:09:15.000The other people are involved in the creation or in the act of the pornography.
01:09:18.000And here's why because you are giving in your immortal soul to the temptations of the flesh.
01:09:25.000You are all sin originate in the mind.
01:09:28.000And so, the end, and furthermore, not only are you giving in to these carnal base urges, but at the same time, you are going to start seeking out more and more of them.
01:09:38.000This is what puts you on a path to actual child porn, by the way.
01:09:43.000That would have been my response, by where I, in this situation, as I go to the Aquinas host.
01:09:48.000The acquaintance, yeah, Jack, you've gone into the sixth layer of hell.
01:10:47.000I think that has to be the take on it, which is like it's bad.
01:10:49.000Yes, it's bad because it exploits people, but it's also bad for its own sake.
01:10:53.000Because for its own sake, it makes you a worse person to do it.
01:10:56.000You are now a person who is using essentially child pornography.
01:11:01.000That is making you a worse person, regardless of what you do in the outer world, even if the relationship that often has is an indicator of how it does make you a worse person.
01:11:11.000Well, and in some ways, Dennis is being very precise with his language because he would say that it was ugly, he would say that it's profane, but he stopped short of evil because, in a very strict Jewish reading of the Torah, evil only involves victims, meaning that if you think something or you're internal, that's not evil until you act upon it.
01:11:33.000Which is very different from, again, Christian theology.
01:11:37.000Again, Philippians 4 8, which everybody knows and has heard before.
01:11:43.000Whatsoever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely.
01:11:51.000Of any praise, we think on these things, right?
01:11:54.000So that's the good thing to separate between, again, our good friend Dennis, who's not Christian, versus Christians, is most Christians would find that absolutely horrific.
01:12:05.000Even going down that pathway of that conversation.
01:12:38.000But it does not make that the thought is not evil itself, especially if you engage in the thought.
01:12:44.000And that is where Dennis could, where I would have pushed back the most is if you have a random, weird thought, God's not going to judge you on it.
01:12:53.000But then engaging in animated child pornography is pushing energy, focus into the evil thing, which then, as you said, Jack, grows in attachment towards that evil thing.
01:13:21.000You can reject temptation or then you can give in to temptation.
01:13:25.000So there is this much longer piece where Dennis says, Well, what about if you walk by at like a Victoria's Secret at the mall or somebody leaves a lingerie catalog out or something like that and you start to think impure thoughts?
01:13:45.000But, you know, I like the way that you put it out, Charlie.
01:13:48.000And you and I were texting about this when it first crossed everyone's radar, when it was going viral, that kind of led to this discussion today, where I really like the way you put it because there are three sets here, right?
01:14:01.000There's three sets it's thought, but then action.
01:14:05.000But you pointed out, Charlie, there's a medium ground.
01:14:09.000What is that middle ground between thought and action?
01:14:12.000This is actually, I've come up with this myself after dealing with it because I don't think thoughts are nearly as bad as actions, but thoughts can be bad, which is attitudes.
01:15:06.000But it is evil because, look, in Aristotle, it would say a thing is good for its own sake and therefore something is evil for its own sake, right?
01:15:15.000It could get better or worse if you engage with the thing.
01:15:18.000I want to replay the clip though, because some people are asking about it.
01:15:22.000And I want to make sure, because it happens really fast.
01:15:24.000Understand the pretext and the context.
01:16:19.000Well, I'll tell you what I think, and then I'll tell you my theology.
01:16:23.000As I was raised religiously, I was that thoughts always precede actions.
01:16:28.000And so that's the reason why thoughts matter so much.
01:16:30.000Is there's not a single action that's ever been taken for the most part that is, you know, evil, that's truly evil without a thought perceiving it.
01:16:39.000That is, I actually think that it's the opposite.
01:16:41.000I think that actions that are bad that actually had no thought to them would probably be more forgivable than the ones that have thoughts.
01:16:49.000But like road rage, where you just kind of get out of control.
01:16:52.000I was just going to bring up road rage.
01:16:53.000I was literally just going to bring up road rage.
01:17:02.000And so this comes back to me like sin to me has always been, this has always just been something I have is it's just distraction.
01:17:08.000So, like, to me, I think that you know, in the greater eternal perspective of how we live our lives, is the difference between sin very good?
01:17:16.000And I think this goes back to this conversation with Dennis, which was I think part of his argument is that there's so little difference in the great eternal spectrum of our mortal sin that it's just like, yeah, I just like there's no difference, right?
01:17:30.000Like, there's just like to me, it's like there's a big difference in the action.
01:17:33.000Like, yeah, like on, yeah, that's a Catholic.
01:17:42.000But I was just going to say this is just real quickly.
01:17:43.000It's just like, I think to me, the greatest part I think that the devil wants us to do is to be distracted and confused and to waste time because your time is precious on this earth.
01:17:54.000The most precious time that you have on this earth, if you believe in a post life, afterlife, whatever, right, is that in heaven and that and the doctrine of heaven, is that if you waste time here, anytime that you waste here, You are not doing good and you're not serving the kingdom.
01:19:21.000Yeah, so anyway, so that's he believes that male sexuality needs to have pressure releases.
01:19:30.000And if they are not given pressure releases where there is no necessary victim, then they're going to commit adultery and they're going to do all these other different things.
01:19:41.000In a very strict Catholic, because I'm just going to use Jack, the host was Catholic, he said, no, no, no, that's not honorable, that's not acceptable.
01:20:30.000But even because there's a longer discussion where he talks about pornography that I haven't necessarily seen gone viral, but because I went back and watched the episode, I saw it, where he does talk about justifications for pornography within the confines of marriage, where essentially he's saying, well, if you've lost the spark and you need something to help you out, then hey, pornography is great.
01:20:54.000Um, and you're watching it together, commits to a communal act, et cetera, et cetera.
01:21:00.000By the way, I know that my parents are watching this as I'm talking about it, probably my wife too.
01:21:04.000But, um, at the same time, it, it, he's saying that it's still good.
01:21:09.000And, and where Matt basically just disagrees completely with him in that sense, because it still feels, I believe, and I think everyone does that it's still a form of engaging with pornography at that point.
01:21:21.000And, uh, though, Charlie, there, there's another point that I want to, That I would like to ask you that I think you'd be able to describe this better because I didn't quite pick it up.
01:21:29.000They were in the middle of a debate there.
01:21:32.000But he says, well, he brings up that question of the thought crime, right?
01:21:35.000The thought crime, which is in the Ten Commandments about covet.
01:21:39.000And this idea of now it's neighbor's wife, neighbor's goods.
01:21:43.000Obviously, in this case, we're talking about neighbor's wife.
01:21:45.000And so I think most people would think of covet in synonymous with desire, wish for, yearn for, these types of synonyms.
01:22:10.000So this is hotly debated in a lot of rabbinical circles.
01:22:13.000I actually don't think this is that complicated because there are other Old Testament scriptures in the Tanakh, which we would just call the Old Testament, Jack.
01:22:21.000You guys have a couple extra books, but in the traditional Old Testament, the ones that the Jews believe are divinely inspired is what we evangelicals read.
01:22:45.000There's other verses in Proverbs and Isaiah that talk about how your thoughts and your heart.
01:22:51.000Here's a great, let me prove it to you, okay?
01:22:53.000So in Genesis 5, when God goes down to basically say, we have to have a flood, it wasn't just the actions of the people, it was that their hearts were darkened.
01:23:06.000And that's amazing when you think about it.
01:23:08.000It was, God was like, they're so beyond redemption that their entire hearts were darkened.
01:23:47.000That's where your heuristic comes into play because it.
01:23:50.000It's not a binary that there is that sort of third level.
01:23:54.000But then also, I guess my response to that would be then if you're saying that that's the nature of covetousness, then wouldn't engaging in this type of content, this type of material, be by its own nature then also covetous?
01:26:00.000But that doesn't just mean like, oh, you can randomly generate stuff.
01:26:03.000What it means is like, you could literally download every single photo of a kid off an Instagram and plug it into a generator and say, manufacture this.
01:26:12.000Or it doesn't have to be kids, of course.
01:26:14.000It's just like take every single photo of your high school crush, take every single photo of your college ex girlfriend, anyone, and plug it in.
01:26:21.000And you can have an AI generate a relatively, like, already the tech marginally exists for this.
01:26:27.000Now imagine where it will be in two years, five years, 10 years, 50 years.
01:26:31.000And, you know, you get these freaking VR helmets that they have and they can put on.
01:26:35.000And, like, the amount of technology, if you don't just take a hard line and say, like, porn is bad, it's just going to, Blow out people's brains.
01:26:45.000We cannot, there is no nuance with this topic right now.
01:26:48.000And that's where I'm at, which is like, it's so toxic.
01:28:30.000Yeah, so it represents the typical Reddit user whose life, to a surprisingly deep degree, revolves around their access to pornography, AI generated or not, gets very angry about AI laws.
01:28:43.000And it's a surprisingly central part of their existence.
01:28:47.000Maybe I should not say surprisingly, because when you encounter them online or even worse in real life, it gets really bad.
01:28:54.000When I was in, I used to work at the Daily Caller and I went to cover to Bernie Sanders rally.
01:28:59.000And there was a man walking around the Bernie Sanders rally who was about, I would guess, 40, 45.
01:30:20.000The problem is, Charlie, when it really comes down to it, that you've got so much accessibility to this these days.
01:30:27.000AI is here now, video AI is probably going on at this very moment.
01:30:32.000At the same time, you are going to have the ability.
01:30:37.000Imagine once you get neuraling involved with this type of thing.
01:30:40.000Imagine when you have memories that are able to be recorded.
01:30:43.000And then shared and uploaded on the internet, people running around Thailand, running around Phuket and uploading things to a vast neural network.
01:30:51.000I think it is literally going to drive people insane at some point.
01:30:55.000And look, you know, growing up with some Playboys around the house is one thing from a long time ago, but it isn't like that anymore.
01:31:03.000What parents or anybody out there needs to understand.
01:31:05.000So, parents, number one, you got to understand it's in your house already because it's on every phone, right?
01:32:07.000But going back, I think that we have a big week ahead of us here, it's going to be very interesting to see what happens between Iowa and the Milwaukee debates that we have in two weeks.