The Charlie Kirk Show - Tucker Carlson Remembers the Faith of Charlie Kirk

00:01:00.000 Ah!

00:01:01.000 That intro may be emotional.

00:01:02.000 It's Tucker Carlson.

00:01:03.000 I'm honored to be sitting in to host the Charlie Kirk show today.

00:01:08.000 I was I flew in from the East Coast last night and was thinking about what to do today for two hours, and there's all this very ugly drama swirling uh around the Republican Party, the right, the memory of Charlie Kirk.

00:01:24.000 And I just thought, and I've got of course strong opinions.

00:01:26.000 I have strong opinions about everything, and I've expressed them, but I I thought I'd really need a break from that.

00:01:31.000 And I don't think that any of it reflects who Charlie was fundamentally.

00:01:35.000 Who was Charlie fundamentally?

00:01:36.000 He was a Christian man, and Jesus was the center of his life.

00:01:39.000 That was obvious to anyone who knew him.

00:01:42.000 It emerged in conversation immediately when you talk to him.

00:01:45.000 That's that's just a fact about Charlie.

00:01:47.000 His life was about following Jesus, period.

00:01:50.000 And so I think the best way to explain who he was is to spend the next two hours talking about Jesus and Charlie's relationship with him.

00:01:58.000 And so I'm gonna be really happy to do that.

00:02:00.000 This will be the happiest conversation about Charlie Kirk, I hope, uh all week.

00:02:06.000 And so as I said, I'm hosting, but I've no idea how the show works.

00:02:09.000 I literally don't know.

00:02:11.000 Um, though I've done I've done it, but luckily Andrew and Blake are here, who I know very well.

00:02:17.000 Um I've actually worked with Blake for years in another life.

00:02:20.000 We're both grateful to be gone from that.

00:02:21.000 Uh but Andrew's really gonna be like running in and out.

00:02:24.000 We're just gonna we're just gonna have fun today.

00:02:26.000 Good.

00:02:26.000 Well, I with you in charge of the details, I know that that will happen.

00:02:31.000 Correct.

00:02:31.000 Blake, it's wonderful to see.

00:02:33.000 We talked on the phone the other day.

00:02:34.000 I've been thinking about you every single day.

00:02:36.000 Um so I hope you're holding up, and I'm and I'm grateful that you're here.

00:02:40.000 So uh yeah, I want to talk about Charlie's relationship with with Jesus, and I'm amazed going.

00:02:46.000 I have a whole list of sots or sound bites here.

00:02:50.000 I asked for Charlie talking about God in public, and I'm just kind of amazed when came back.

00:02:55.000 I mean, they're really it was unbelievable because there's really no one in public life who talked about Jesus more than Charlie Kirk.

00:03:06.000 And I'll just now I'm revealing one of my ugly biases, but some of the people whose job it is to talk about Jesus are not um, you know, I don't think it's credible and believable.

00:03:15.000 I'm just being honest, as I think Charlie was.

00:03:17.000 He really meant it, he wasn't being paid to say it.

00:03:20.000 I think everything that he did, everything that he thought, the way he lived, we're all informed by his love of Jesus.

00:03:28.000 And I don't think I'm overstating, and I I said this to him recently when he was at my house in Maine.

00:03:32.000 I really you remind me of Paul.

00:03:34.000 Like you never stop.

00:03:36.000 I stop.

00:03:36.000 I like to I like to go fishing, I like to go bird hunting, like to hang out on Saturday morning in bed with my wife and like you know, BS with my wife and all that stuff.

00:03:45.000 But Charlie just did not allow himself any of that.

00:03:49.000 He was so driven, and you can see it now maybe as part of a larger plan where he never wasted a minute.

00:03:55.000 He he forced himself to get on the airplane and to do things that were really, really hard in a way that I've never done.

00:04:01.000 I'll just admit it.

00:04:02.000 Um I think that was because he felt God had a plan for him that he was on a mission.

00:04:08.000 It wasn't just about getting somebody elected, it was about something bigger than that.

00:04:12.000 Am I well just ask you first, Andrew and then Blake.

00:04:16.000 Do you think that's I'm reading too much into it, or do you think that's right?

00:04:19.000 No, I I totally agree, and I've had I've had wave after wave of revelation of what we were actually doing.

00:04:26.000 You know, I was so in the weeds, we were so in the weeds that it was impossible to fully understand even what we were doing.

00:04:34.000 But I know I'm I and I I Charlie and I bonded at the very earliest days because we were both like really strong Christians, and that was such a central part of who we were, but we didn't we you know we didn't talk about it all the time necessarily publicly, but as the years went on, we both knew that we had each other in that way.

00:04:53.000 And I've tweeted there's two tweets that I I've posted.

00:04:57.000 I have realized in the days hence that he was a prophet, not a fortune teller, like people think of prophecy.

00:05:06.000 He was like a biblical prophet that would go into a nation and call it to repent.

00:05:09.000 That's what he was doing.

00:05:10.000 He was going to these campuses and he's going on stage and he was going on the show on the podcast, and he was calling a nation to repent.

00:05:17.000 He went to London and he called England to repent at Cambridge and Oxford.

00:05:22.000 And they they hurled insults at him, they mocked him, they jeered him, just like the biblical prophets.

00:05:27.000 They wanted to stone him and ultimately they killed him, and that is what Jesus said.

00:05:30.000 He said, What did they do to the prophets?

00:05:32.000 They killed him.

00:05:33.000 And now the other revelation You're making me emotional again.

00:05:37.000 Because I know that what you're saying is true.

00:05:39.000 And the other revelation is specifically about these campus tours.

00:05:42.000 We called them campus tours.

00:05:43.000 They were tent revivals.

00:05:45.000 Yes.

00:05:45.000 Complete with the tent, Tucker.

00:05:49.000 I don't know why.

00:05:50.000 I didn't really see it.

00:05:51.000 I didn't either.

00:05:52.000 We say that, and I just like to envision like George Whitfield like being, you know, it's just like Jesus was sent as a savior and must be accepted to be saved.

00:06:01.000 Prove me wrong.

00:06:02.000 Yeah.

00:06:03.000 I know, but it's so clear to me now.

00:06:06.000 It's so clear.

00:06:07.000 And me too.

00:06:07.000 I don't know.

00:06:08.000 It's yeah, I don't know how I missed that.

00:06:10.000 I don't know why I thought it was like political organizing or something, which I on one level it was, but it that's not well, you guys were there all the whole time.

00:06:20.000 I mean, it was more than that.

00:06:22.000 It was, it was.

00:06:23.000 And it really knowing him over the past almost three years, that was what I would always tell people who would ask about Charlie.

00:06:32.000 And it's it's so funny where like they'd always just open like, is Charlie smart?

00:06:36.000 And I'd be like, yes, but that that's kind of besides the point.

00:06:38.000 Yes.

00:06:38.000 Like the amazing thing with him is not his IQ or like how much how many like facts he can know or something.

00:06:45.000 What was amazing with him was his drive.

00:06:48.000 The way I would say it, he was like, he was the highest agency person I had ever met in my life.

00:06:52.000 Yes.

00:06:53.000 He thought if there is something I don't like, I have the power as an individual to change the world about that.

00:06:59.000 Or at least if I don't take action, I have no excuse to complain about it.

00:07:04.000 And he brought that to politics and organization, of course, but he especially brought it to the faith question.

00:07:09.000 And he always always wanted to talk about it.

00:07:12.000 Uh he loved talking about it in private.

00:07:14.000 He loved talking about it in places where it was you know arguably pointless.

00:07:20.000 Uh the last speech he kind of gave in public was we were in Japan, and Japan is one percent Christian, maybe uh we were speaking to uh a party there that's you know the you know, we're aligned with them because they're anti-immigration, they don't like globalism, you know.

00:07:36.000 We have we were talking to them about all that stuff.

00:07:38.000 He was like, yo, you should increase your birth rate, don't rely on immigrants and all that. 1.00

00:07:41.000 But Japan is famously resistant to Christianity.

00:07:43.000 Yes, yes.

00:07:44.000 But and I told him about that, and but you know, in Korea we talked about Christianity, and there it was a Christian audience mostly.

00:07:51.000 But he said, he's like, you know, is there somewhere I can work in the faith angle to this?

00:07:56.000 Because you know, we're supposed to preach it everywhere, everywhere we go.

00:08:00.000 And so we talked about that, you know, what what could we do?

00:08:02.000 And we found a spot late in the speech, and the very end of his speech, he was saying, Look, guys, I want you to save your country, but in the end, you're going to have to believe in something transcendent for that to work.

00:08:14.000 It's not just gonna work on pragmatic grounds.

00:08:17.000 And for me, and then he just you know, for me, it's because of my belief in the Almighty, my belief in Jesus Christ, and you're going to need to have something like that to be able to win.

00:08:29.000 And you know, I think two people in the audience started clapping really really energetically, and the rest kind of sat there very politely as well.

00:08:36.000 You get a couple people the Japanese are wonderful people, but but you're right, they're not open to that. 1.00

00:08:41.000 But there were two who were.

00:08:43.000 Yeah, and I maybe they were believers, I'm not sure, but uh, you know, I'm very glad he got to do that.

00:08:48.000 And then in Korea, though, um, now Korea totally different stories.

00:08:53.000 Very different story.

00:08:54.000 We have this clip.

00:08:55.000 Why don't we just play it if it's okay, Tucker?

00:08:57.000 Oh, my gosh, of course.

00:08:58.000 18.

00:08:58.000 That's the best, aren't they?

00:09:07.000 Oh, my gosh, of course.

00:09:33.000 That was 11 days ago, Tucker.

00:09:35.000 And he's on stage.

00:09:37.000 And in English, they asked him to come forward and pray and sing over Charlie.

00:09:42.000 And they put their hands up and they started in English saying, How great is our God.

00:09:46.000 Sing with me, how great is our God.

00:09:48.000 And Charlie put his hand on his heart, and Mikey said when he got off stage, like he could see his eyes were missed it.

00:09:54.000 It meant so much to him.

00:09:55.000 I I just can't resist a sidebar.

00:09:57.000 I was in Melbourne, Australia not that long ago by myself on a Sunday, and I was like, I gotta go to church, and Melbourne's one of the darkest cities really in the world.

00:10:06.000 There are good things about Melbourne, but basically it's it's in enemy hands, and boy, do you feel it when you're there?

00:10:10.000 And I was like, I gotta go to church.

00:10:12.000 So I go, of course, to the Anglican church, which is my denomination, it's now a museum filled with Chinese tourists.

00:10:17.000 I was like, oh, this is the worst.

00:10:19.000 I'm feeling despondent.

00:10:21.000 I go next door to the Scottish church, the Presbyterian church.

00:10:24.000 Beautiful, beautiful church, like in beyond, and there's no one in it except at the front, and it's like a hundred yards away.

00:10:31.000 I felt like there's this little group of people singing, and it's Koreans.

00:10:35.000 And this Korean congregation of like nine people has taken over the church, rented it on Sundays, because of course, no whites are going to church, of course. 0.98

00:10:43.000 And I just thought to myself, this was God's way of reassuring me that even though the world that I grew up in is gone and totally, you know, everyone's fallen away, and and it hasn't worked at all.

00:10:54.000 Um, that Jesus still lives, and but you know, his name is spoken in other languages, and one of those is Korean, and there's something there's something about watching you know Koreans worship that just oh, it's my favorite thing ever.

00:11:07.000 I totally agree, they are absolute prayer warriors, but I just believe this, Tucker, and I have to say this like in this moment.

00:11:14.000 I believe God is unleashing a new revival on this country, and Charlie is a the the spark that is igniting it.

00:11:22.000 Completely agree.

00:11:22.000 And I don't even want to say it's his his death, it's his the start of his eternal life and his eternal glory, his immortality, and I believe that he is seated with God in heaven, and he's seated in glory.

00:11:35.000 And I believe that there's a reason that Charlie and Erica would look at each other and say, you know, our mission is to make heaven crowded.

00:11:43.000 And I believe that that is actually the real mission, and that is actually going to be happening right now.

00:11:51.000 It's happening in our midst, right now, and it's happening, it's sweeping the country, and there was there was a story I just heard on the drive here this morning that they ran out of uh baptism space.

00:12:01.000 They just kind of did an impromptu baptism space as one of my friends' churches, and so they went out in the parking lot and started dunking people in the fountain.

00:12:08.000 Hundreds of them.

00:12:09.000 Protestants are fun.

00:12:10.000 I just I just love that.

00:12:12.000 If I can just say a word, I mean, I don't get involved in the Protestant Catholic Orthodox thing because I'm just for Jesus.

00:12:19.000 But if I could just dig up just for one second for my people.

00:12:24.000 Like they built this country.

00:12:25.000 They did.

00:12:26.000 I'm sorry, it's just a it's a f it's a fact, and they really believed in God, and they you know, they were on the right path.

00:12:32.000 They were amazing people, and I I'm very aware that they've declined to the point where I make fun of them constantly, but there was something very, very real there.

00:12:41.000 Very real.

00:12:42.000 Sorry.

00:12:43.000 Well, the circuit writers in the same.

00:12:45.000 No, no, no.

00:12:46.000 I mean, listen, and they're as I I'm somebody both Erica and I were cradle Catholics, right?

00:12:52.000 We were did the first communion and we did the catechism and the you know, the uh anyways.

00:12:57.000 I went to Catholic high school even.

00:12:59.000 Um did you go to Catholic high school?

00:13:01.000 No, long story.

00:13:02.000 Long story in 2007.

00:13:04.000 But the point is my parents moved me to public schools.

00:13:06.000 I I ended up getting saved in college.

00:13:10.000 Very, very, very non non-denominational evangelical way to phrase it.

00:13:13.000 I got saved in college, radically saved.

00:13:16.000 Um, so I had this Catholic background, but then I found myself in a non-denominational setting alone at a school in Seattle, like the second least church city in the country.

00:13:26.000 Right.

00:13:26.000 And I ended up getting radically saved.

00:13:29.000 And so, But I've never cared about the distinctions.

00:13:32.000 I love both.

00:13:33.000 Yeah, I agree.

00:13:34.000 You know, I might have petty minor little theological differences.

00:13:37.000 Yes.

00:13:38.000 Doesn't matter.

00:13:38.000 I love them both.

00:13:39.000 I don't understand.

00:13:40.000 I've can't because of my path here, I never cared.

00:13:43.000 Anyone who focuses on Jesus is my brother.

00:13:46.000 That's how I feel.

00:13:47.000 And I I agree with you a hundred percent.

00:13:50.000 And if you let your it's a little bit like Twitter, actually.

00:13:52.000 If you if you think about it too much, you end up hating everybody and you miss the commonality between people and the commonality between Christians is Jesus, period.

00:14:02.000 And if you think about well, I'm mad about transubstantiation or like the last Pope was horrible.

00:14:08.000 Mariology.

00:14:08.000 Which he was.

00:14:09.000 Um I'm so sad we didn't get to just have that full debate.

00:14:12.000 We we wanted to have just a straight, like just for fun, like, let's debate Mary.

00:14:16.000 No, I'm not doing that.

00:14:18.000 Let's do it next week.

00:14:20.000 But we wanted to do it with Charlie, and now we can't.

00:14:22.000 I'm not doing that.

00:14:23.000 And that uh one of the the things, I hope you guys live to your 50s because and I and I'm and I'm sure you will, but because when you get there, you're like, wow, I've been wrong about so much.

00:14:33.000 And you think that middle-aged people are wishy-washy, and low testosterone does account for some of that, just a fact.

00:14:39.000 But part of it is just the recognition of how wrong you've been.

00:14:43.000 And that is the Christian forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us.

00:14:49.000 It's like first you meditate on how fallen you are, and then you realize you don't have a basis upon which to judge other people, actually, and you can forgive them.

00:14:57.000 And that is the process that's prescribed in the Lord's Prayer.

00:15:00.000 Of course, it's a center of Christianity, but it's also just like a human process, and you get there and you realize like, yeah, I'm mad about Mary.

00:15:07.000 That's a fact, okay.

00:15:08.000 But then I get older, and my wife's like, Oh, I was just saying the rosary, my very Protestant wife, and I love it.

00:15:13.000 It brings me closer to Jesus.

00:15:14.000 And I'm like, I'm not judging anymore.

00:15:16.000 And I really want people to understand, Tucker, you and Charlie had such a unique and special bond and relationship.

00:15:23.000 It was it was a deep friendship, and you both uh had each other's back and instead of my back.

00:15:29.000 You had his back too.

00:15:30.000 I know those stories as well.

00:15:32.000 Yeah, and I promised I wouldn't get into any of that, but I will say, and I'm not going to, but I will say, because I want this to be about Jesus and his love for Jesus and what he did to spread the word of Jesus throughout the world.

00:15:43.000 But I will just say this that whenever I would come and do a gig for you guys, which was a lot because I really enjoyed it, and he was so kind to invite me and defend my being there.

00:15:52.000 But I would always, he's the only person I did this with, I would always say, Hey, you know, let's like meet in my hotel room or have a meal.

00:16:00.000 Like I oh I loved talking to him, and it wasn't just to catch up on everything that's going on in the political world, he would always bring it back to God every single time.

00:16:09.000 And it was so there's no one around.

00:16:12.000 Like, so he didn't need to be like, oh yeah, I really love God.

00:16:16.000 Just us, and you'd be talking about that.

00:16:17.000 You would come to Phoenix and you would reach out to and I it's like I have so many memories of Charlie being like I can't, I gotta do dinner.

00:16:24.000 Who are you doing dinner with?

00:16:25.000 Oh, Tucker's in town, I gotta meet up with him.

00:16:26.000 Always, always, and he was so intellectually curious and flexible.

00:16:31.000 And I think that also grew out of his Christian faith.

00:16:34.000 And I know that as I've gotten older, it's been one of the things I appreciate most about believing in God is like you can admit when you're wrong, you can change your views.

00:16:42.000 Paul, who created a lot of the early church was the chief persecutor of Christians.

00:16:47.000 He was a freaking Pharisee. 0.61

00:16:48.000 So, like, in our religion, at its core is the fact that God can change people, and so you don't need to be brittle and afraid about admitting that yeah, I was totally off base.

00:16:59.000 And Charlie was so much like that.

00:17:01.000 He was constantly thinking about is this the right thing?

00:17:03.000 Is that the right thing?

00:17:04.000 Like, there's no one in public life who does that.

00:17:06.000 It's so easy for like religion, you know, for sometimes people use religion as an excuse for megalomania.

00:17:11.000 Yes, and Charlie was so humble, genuinely humble.

00:17:14.000 Thank you, friends.

00:17:15.000 We would we would have these moments.

00:17:16.000 Thank you for saying and on this note, we would have these moments, and I'd be like, Can you freaking believe what's going on?

00:17:21.000 You're out south park or whatever.

00:17:22.000 All on God.

00:17:23.000 And and he would say, he would say, Stay humble, stay close to Jesus.

00:17:26.000 That would be the type that we need to stay humble to Jesus, stay close to Jesus.

00:17:29.000 Really?

00:17:30.000 Yes.

00:17:30.000 This is in his private text to people.

00:17:32.000 Private text works with.

00:17:33.000 I have a story like this too, and I'm I'm ashamed that I am the villain in this story.

00:17:39.000 Basically, it was two weeks before he died, and I'll never forget it.

00:17:43.000 I there was just some annoyance that was, you know, in our way, and we we we needed to deal with something.

00:17:49.000 I can't even remember it was, and I just remember going, hey, you know, we could just tell them XYZ and translation.

00:17:56.000 We could just, you know, a little white lie, and it'll go away, they'll understand. 0.85

00:18:00.000 And I remember seeing the like the dots he's typing right away.

00:18:04.000 Right away.

00:18:06.000 We don't lie.

00:18:09.000 It was a private message with me.

00:18:11.000 I love that.

00:18:11.000 And it wasn't you don't lie.

00:18:13.000 It's not I don't lie.

00:18:14.000 It was Andrew.

00:18:16.000 We we here on the show in this turn in turning point, we don't lie.

00:18:22.000 Well, and not only don't lie, I mean, I without even getting into it, but like if you run a huge nonprofit and DC is all about huge nonprofits, I know everyone who runs them.

00:18:30.000 Boy, there are temptations, and there was never any of that here ever.

00:18:35.000 And we Tro and I talked about that a lot.

00:18:38.000 Like, here are the pitfalls in a man's life.

00:18:40.000 Here here's how people get ensnared.

00:18:41.000 It happened to David.

00:18:42.000 I mean, we know this is a thing.

00:18:45.000 He was so again, I just had this conversation with him right before he died, because I'm very focused on it, because I've seen so many people destroyed, destroy themselves.

00:18:55.000 And it's clearly like Satan acting on them.

00:18:57.000 Fact.

00:18:58.000 Sorry.

00:18:59.000 And the he was like, he was a narrow path walker.

00:19:03.000 And I just have to say that because most aren't.

00:19:06.000 He would run home to be with Erica.

00:19:07.000 Yes.

00:19:07.000 If he couldn't, yes.

00:19:08.000 If he if Erica was on the road, he'd be like, Are we done here?

00:19:11.000 Okay.

00:19:11.000 Uh like a donor dinner or something.

00:19:13.000 He would, you know, he af it after our events at night, he would do kind of like a little circuit to all the dinners and he couldn't wait.

00:19:19.000 He's like, okay.

00:19:19.000 And I'd be like, I gotta talk to you about one uh one other thing, Charlie.

00:19:22.000 Hold on one second.

00:19:22.000 One second.

00:19:23.000 He's like, sorry, I'll talk to you about it in the morning.

00:19:24.000 I can see Erica.

00:19:25.000 Bye.

00:19:26.000 I and it was just that is the key.

00:19:28.000 I love to tell people this because some sometimes people who didn't watch Charlie a lot would sometimes just think, oh, he's like a young influencer.

00:19:35.000 So people would ask me, they'd be like, Blake, do you ever hang out with Charlie?

00:19:39.000 And what I'd always say is I don't think Charlie has ever hung out in his entire life.

00:19:44.000 Uh he was always on his mission, or you know, he was with you know, he was with his family.

00:19:48.000 It was 100% all the time.

00:19:50.000 That being said, some of the best memories that I have are the plane flights across country.

00:19:56.000 Yeah.

00:19:56.000 Because that's the only time he can hang out.

00:19:58.000 It was amazing.

00:20:00.000 Right.

00:20:00.000 And by the way, when and and I think that gave him the freedom to kind of just go, huh, I'm hanging out.

00:20:07.000 And I mean, if you had to add him up, I've got hundreds of these hours, and they're some of the most amazing because he was so funny and so curious, and so he did, but it was like you had to get him in this this mode where you literally trapped him on a plane and he couldn't get out and he was stuck.

00:20:25.000 Well, what is that?

00:20:26.000 I mean, most people sort of fritter away their entire lives hanging out.

00:20:30.000 And I'm I'm definitely one of them.

00:20:31.000 I'm like an Arab man in the soup. 1.00

00:20:33.000 I like to sit around hitting the water pipe, playing backgammon, drinking little cups of coffee, talking about women. 0.99

00:20:38.000 Like I've spent a lot of my life doing that.

00:20:40.000 That's why I love Trump so much.

00:20:42.000 He likes that too.

00:20:42.000 But Charlie had like this mission all the time.

00:20:46.000 So my theory on that, Tucker, is I think in order for this whole God plan to work in Charlie's life, he had to like he had to impress in him almost subconsciously, uh hardwire it, whatever it was, he was gonna maximize the juice, the the the output, and Charlie disciplined his body.

00:21:07.000 He didn't put alcohol into his body, he didn't put drugs into his body, he didn't put anything into his body that he thought was going to slow him down or reduce his productivity.

00:21:16.000 He was obsessed with biohacking.

00:21:18.000 He was like, and and all I thought it was just this weird quirk because I'm thinking, Charlie, you're gonna be alive because you're younger than me, you're gonna be live when I'm gone.

00:21:27.000 Like, chill out, relax, have some fun.

00:21:30.000 But but somehow he knew there wasn't a moment to waste.

00:21:34.000 And I'm finding these things, Ducker, that he found time to do.

00:21:38.000 Erica's telling me he somehow found time to journal obsessively, and she never wrote a weekly note every single week.

00:21:46.000 Wrote her a weekly note on Saturday, every every Saturday.

00:21:49.000 I he read books, he skimmed books, he got Blake to read them.

00:21:52.000 He found ways to get the team to distill information so he could absorb it.

00:21:56.000 And he but he would do walks with books on tape.

00:21:59.000 He he managed to squeeze so much life into such a short period of time.

00:22:06.000 And it's I have to believe it was God impressing and blessing him with this divine ability to maximize his output.

00:22:16.000 I d I love that.

00:22:18.000 And I had many conversations with him on this topic also about like physical health.

00:22:24.000 I'm a pizza guy, so okay, yeah, physical health.

00:22:27.000 I I quit smoking cigarettes at 45, like I feel very virtually.

00:22:30.000 It turns out you say he didn't want to put anything in his body that would hinder him.

00:22:33.000 And it turns out the list of things that hinder you is all foods except like cabbage, grilled chicken, hot sauce.

00:22:39.000 But that's basically what I mean, he was the fittest guy, but it was for a reason.

00:22:43.000 I want to tell the Blake story.

00:22:45.000 Blake Neff who's sitting right here.

00:22:47.000 And it's it's just a story that just explains who he really was.

00:22:52.000 And there's so much that goes on in Washington and political world that's so treacherous and cruel and anti-human.

00:23:00.000 Um and Charlie just stood against all of that, not simply in public but in private.

00:23:04.000 And I had a window into one of the amazing stories of bravery and forgiveness.

00:23:10.000 Uh it's just an incredible story, and it's about you.

00:23:13.000 Again, it makes me emotional.

00:23:14.000 Thinking about it, but anyway, I don't think it's ever really been told.

00:23:16.000 Sorry to make you a little bit.

00:23:18.000 It's an amazing story.

00:23:20.000 I love about this Blake story too.

00:23:21.000 Because I and I I don't want to I'm not gonna ruin the punchline here, but I would just say I one of the strongest testaments to Charlie is the fact that this guy's a tough judge.

00:23:36.000 And I know when he knows a little bit and when he first started working with us, I could tell that he was a little unsure.

00:23:43.000 You know, you probably had the questions you're back.

00:23:45.000 Charlie spoke the language of the people, and you're a Dartmouth kid that's a total egg, egghead, nerd, you know, like beautiful mind kind of person.

00:23:54.000 And but Charlie would cut through all that, and he would speak right to the people and cut people's hearts in two and make them choose the side they were gonna go on.

00:24:02.000 And that was not the language of Blake Neff, but we needed a Blake Neff, and I knew we needed a Blake Neff, and I just there was this moment where I forget why, but you you took this moment, and I remember being really touched by it, and you paid Charlie a tremendous compliment, and I knew it was like a two years after the fact, and it and it was I Charlie texted me like directly, he goes, Whoa, did you hear did you hear Blake?

00:24:28.000 Like, because it really meant the world to him that he won, he had won your respect, and it really meant the world to him.

00:24:34.000 Yeah, South Dakota Germans aren't big on compliments, but I do think that so you if you get one from Blake, it's earned.

00:24:40.000 I do think the question that people had about Charlie, the question I got most often, and people came to me a lot about Charlie, like, what is this?

00:24:47.000 Because they knew that I knew him and that I was friends with him.

00:24:49.000 But really, the core question everyone wanted answered was is this guy for real?

00:24:53.000 Is this real?

00:24:54.000 Because like nothing in our world's real, it's all fake, actually.

00:24:57.000 And I hate to say it, but it's true. 0.93

00:24:58.000 A lot of preachers are very fake.

00:25:01.000 And and I would always say, amazingly, it's a hundred percent real.

00:25:04.000 It's totally real.

00:25:06.000 And I remember talking to you, you about that.

00:25:08.000 I mean, everyone like what is this exactly?

00:25:11.000 And you concluded early, I remember when you told me, No, no, it's totally real.

00:25:15.000 That's incredible.

00:25:17.000 You really have to have lived in our world for a while to know how wild that is, because you most people are just like, Yeah, of course it's real.

00:25:24.000 Not in political world.

00:25:25.000 Is that fair?

00:25:26.000 Very fair, very fair.

00:25:28.000 Yeah, and he's like the realest guy to ever live, practically sad.

00:25:36.000 He's gone.

00:25:36.000 I wish I I wish I had said this in public before he left because um I said it many times in private.

00:25:42.000 I will say that to many people.

00:25:44.000 Who is this guy?

00:25:45.000 Is this real like what is this?

00:25:47.000 And I would always say, Man, if you had dinner with him, you would know it's real.

00:25:51.000 Um, so yeah, the floor is yours.

00:25:53.000 I know where you're going, but oh, this is Blake Neff's story.

00:25:55.000 Okay, so this is a story that um obviously I was in the middle of it, and I've talked to a lot of people just this week about it.

00:26:00.000 I don't think it's ever been told in public.

00:26:02.000 I'm gonna give the outline and then just turn it over to Blake to correct me or to and to fill in the details.

00:26:06.000 But here's the story.

00:26:07.000 So Blake worked for me at Fox News uh for years, probably more closely than anybody uh uh like intimately at Fox, and um, and I love Blake, and Blake is obviously an unusual person, but just a wonderful person and a really deeply decent person.

00:26:23.000 I mean, it's true, and obviously, yeah, but Blake's weird, but like Blake is the best, and people who love Blake really love Blake, and there's a little group of people who you know we all know each other, we all talk about Blake.

00:26:33.000 So Blake got caught up right at the height of all this insanity, true insanity called cancel culture, but it was more than that, it was like French Revolution stuff, and someone like you know, Blake is naughty, Blake is a racist.

00:26:46.000 Well, actually, what do we say?

00:26:47.000 Blake is actually not a racist, and I would admit it, he's not.

00:26:50.000 He's a Christian who believes that God created everybody, so he's actually not a racist.

00:26:54.000 But Fox overreacted, of course, and he left, and then Fox denounced him.

00:27:00.000 they tried to get me to denounce him.

00:27:01.000 Suzanne Scott tried to make me denounce Blake, and I refused.

00:27:06.000 Something I'm proud of, but whatever.

00:27:08.000 It was it was just awful.

00:27:09.000 It was the saddest moment in the 15 years that I spent there.

00:27:12.000 And then Blake's unemployed and unemployable.

00:27:15.000 And I get this, and I feel terrible, and I feel like I've got a moral obligation to help Blake.

00:27:19.000 And but who's gonna hire Blake?

00:27:21.000 Because he's like in the New York Times, it's like a bad person when actually he's a great person.

00:27:25.000 Charlie Kirk calls me.

00:27:26.000 He's like, I'm thinking about hiring Blake.

00:27:28.000 I was like, God bless you, Charlie.

00:27:29.000 What's he like?

00:27:30.000 I said, Well, Blake's very eccentric, like no kidding.

00:27:33.000 He's the only person who ever lost weight eating junk food.

00:27:35.000 Like he's a really unusual person.

00:27:36.000 Like we talk about Blake all day long.

00:27:38.000 But he's a wonderful person, and he's incredibly talented.

00:27:42.000 No one disputes that, and I think you should do it.

00:27:44.000 He does.

00:27:45.000 Charlie and I talk about it.

00:27:46.000 Then Blake and I talk about having these like conversations behind the scenes about each other.

00:27:50.000 And not only does Charlie hire Blake, he puts us makes me puts Blake on the air as if to say, I know this man, he is a good man.

00:28:00.000 You will judge me for doing this.

00:28:01.000 I'm doing it anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

00:28:03.000 And then of course it becomes this whole thing where Blake is like a true asset to him.

00:28:06.000 But when he first did it, it was like, no, I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do.

00:28:10.000 There's the last thing I'll say before turning over to Blake.

00:28:13.000 I've been in this business my whole life, nobody does that.

00:28:15.000 Nobody does that.

00:28:16.000 Everyone's like, Oh, I'm for free speech or whatever, until it hurts me.

00:28:20.000 At which point, like, sorry, pal, good luck.

00:28:23.000 But Charlie pivoted against that in a way that exposed him and his group turning point to ridicule and risk, and he did it anyway.

00:28:31.000 And all week I've been talking to people about this.

00:28:33.000 Like, that was the acid test.

00:28:35.000 Those of us in this business know how brave that was, who's the bravest thing, anyway.

00:28:39.000 Sorry, Blake.

00:28:40.000 I I remember talking to you about that because I I actually was weighing another employment option, and I was going, yeah, as you said, I was like, I think you maybe were behind that one too.

00:28:50.000 Yeah, well, I was.

00:28:51.000 I was desperate to use another option.

00:28:52.000 And I remember just I you know, I won't say what it was for, but we were talking about it, and I think the one that you really pointed out that was really important.

00:29:01.000 He's like, Blake, I think the most important thing, like Charlie is a for real, a sincere Christian.

00:29:07.000 Yes, and I think you're going to want to work for someone who is a for-real, sincere, deeply believing Christian.

00:29:14.000 And you know, because then you'll disagree on a lot of things, but you will align on really important things.

00:29:20.000 Yes, and I think that was what carried the day with me.

00:29:24.000 And I'm very glad it did.

00:29:27.000 Um, and you know, at the time, as you said, there was like at the time I came in, it was he was just a very different person.

00:29:34.000 Yes, and it was over time realizing all the ways that as you say, he's like, You have to really see it.

00:29:41.000 You're like, is this for real?

00:29:42.000 We you and I talked about this.

00:29:43.000 What is it?

00:29:44.000 Is this going to work?

00:29:45.000 It would also have that where you're like, this can't, this can't possibly work, right?

00:29:49.000 And it does, and it does because he's so completely intently sincere and fully all in on it.

00:29:58.000 And I think that's what like amazed young people, like you know, when you'd go to these campus events, and you know, I think there's a lot of you know, you'll see these people online who are like very like performatively trad or Christian or whatever, because it like owns the libs or whatever, and then but Charlie is just like, no, no, I I like 100% believe in this.

00:30:17.000 Like because I believe it is true, and because it is important, and I want everyone else to believe in it because it is true, and I think it is the most important decision they will ever make, and it would always shine through in what he was doing and how he behaved that he really believed that and well, and I mean it I think and you know this because you were at some of the campus stops, I was at some of the campus stops.

00:30:40.000 90% of the interactions as he got older, right?

00:30:43.000 The the the brand of Charlie was almost cemented, you know, in 2018, where he was much younger, and he was like a peer to the kids on college, and he would say, Charlie Kirk destroys the libs or whatever.

00:30:56.000 And that was just titling, it wasn't actually in Charlie's heart, but the Charlie, by the way, didn't determine the titles, you know, like people behind the scenes destroy anyhow.

00:31:05.000 No, behind the scenes, that's you know, that's a social media team that's doing the titling.

00:31:09.000 That wasn't Charlie picking the title, you know.

00:31:11.000 Anyways, but the point is, as he got older, he transitioned to a much more big brother, and and people started observing like this incredible Herculean patience that he would exhibit on these in these interactions with sometimes bad faith people, but sometimes people that just had bad ideas.

00:31:32.000 And 90%, if you went and sat there and watched the entire three hour prove me wrong, 90% of it is him being kind and gentle and thought-provoking and working through whatever was the lie that was stuck in this kid's head, or sometimes professors, but he would work with them through it and use the Socratic method to draw out the truth.

00:31:53.000 And it was a beautiful thing.

00:31:55.000 And you know, he doesn't get a nearly enough credit for that because the Charlie destroys the libs clip goes mega viral, right?

00:32:02.000 I I I couldn't agree with you more.

00:32:04.000 I have to say, when you when all that happened to you, I just cannot say how pain I well, you know, because we've talked about many times, but that was like one of the most painful things that's ever happened to me in my life.

00:32:16.000 Uh, because you know, we have such a tight staff, and um, and the same staff.

00:32:20.000 Like, I don't have new people working for me really ever, and I don't I don't care to.

00:32:24.000 So um, that was really, really painful.

00:32:26.000 Oh, go ahead.

00:32:27.000 And I just wanted you to have health insurance, like my expectations for you were so low because you had been so mistreated and maligned and slandered, and it's just so hard to come back from that.

00:32:40.000 The fact that he puts you on the air is so a mistake.

00:32:44.000 Why it was not a mistake, but it was that is so wild.

00:32:48.000 So I I have an insight into that piece of the story because I was aware of this other job opportunity, and I see it now all as like God's plan.

00:32:57.000 And I was working on kind of a panel show idea, but I didn't have the it was just like a nugget of an idea was back in my head, and and I remember kind of just intuiting that in order to like restore this man that had been so wronged by Oliver Darcy or whatever and CNN, these scumbags, I thought you know, I need to forgive Oliver Darcy.

00:33:20.000 Thank you for reminding me.

00:33:21.000 As we forgive those who trespass against us, he needs to be my daily rotation.

00:33:26.000 So, but you know, and by the way, I I saw I ended up in that moment in that when we were talking with Blake at the beginning.

00:33:32.000 I looked back at your monologue from that night.

00:33:35.000 I maybe it wasn't your monologue, maybe it was the finish final segment.

00:33:38.000 But you said I you you really were defiant, and it was beautifully done because you were back at you, you they you were part of something and only had so much control in at that moment, right?

00:33:47.000 And so they were bullying me, Suzanne Scott got me.

00:33:50.000 I was in the parking lot of a place in I was in Bozeman, Montana fishing, and she called me, and I went outside to do my pre-show bathroom break, always outside if I can do it, and she called me and she said, You need to say what he said was wrong.

00:34:03.000 And I said, I'm not doing that, period.

00:34:04.000 And you can fire me, and the show's live in 10 minutes.

00:34:06.000 I'm not doing that.

00:34:08.000 And she goes, Well, I guess I can't make you.

00:34:11.000 And she until the day she fired me, she never really talked to me after that.

00:34:14.000 Yeah, I and I I'm not trying to get into any of that, but I do believe that.

00:34:20.000 Oh, I want to get into it.

00:34:21.000 It was horrible what they did to him.

00:34:23.000 I I'm just saying, I will I don't know where to go with that.

00:34:26.000 I will say, Tucker, this is awkward for me.

00:34:28.000 If you're sorry, sorry.

00:34:29.000 No, no, no.

00:34:29.000 Sorry, sorry, sorry.

00:34:30.000 No, I would just say that I think this moment has profoundly changed all of us, including people like Suzanne, and uh I just want to say briefly for what it's worth, she's been exceedingly kind of and we all change, and I've done crappy things, a lot of crappy things in my life, so I shouldn't be judgy.

00:34:48.000 But but the to your point, you your hands were tied in that moment, and you you defiantly said, I remember you said, I just want everybody to know that you are gloating over a young man's life being ruined, and shame on you.

00:34:59.000 You basically you you I'll never forget that.

00:35:01.000 And I remember thinking, okay, like if Tucker's got his back in this moment, this guy's pretty great.

00:35:06.000 He's the best, yeah.

00:35:07.000 And he's been the best.

00:35:08.000 And I love having boys.

00:35:09.000 Well, they came out of nowhere, man.

00:35:11.000 I'll never forget that.

00:35:12.000 I'll never forget that as long as I live.

00:35:14.000 But anyway, the point is, whatever.

00:35:15.000 And I shouldn't even brought it up.

00:35:16.000 Well, we put him on air exactly.

00:35:18.000 And and by the way, and now look at this.

00:35:20.000 This show is going on.

00:35:21.000 Erica Kirk has demanded that the show goes on, and we're gonna figure out the details, and Blake is gonna be critical to that.

00:35:28.000 And if we hadn't have created this this roster, this thought crime crew that we do on Thursdays, I don't know what we would do.

00:35:34.000 But it takes the bravery of an individual to get there.

00:35:37.000 So, like everything is fine now, and Blake can do whatever he wants, and people know who he is because they get to see him and they can make their own judgments about him.

00:35:44.000 But when Charlie made that decision, and he's the one who would have been blamed if it had gone wrong.

00:35:49.000 People didn't know who Blake was apart from what they read in the New York Times, slander devised by CNN and Oliver Darcy.

00:35:55.000 That's a fact, and and not helped by a lot of other people who I shouldn't be attacking your rights.

00:36:00.000 Sorry about that.

00:36:01.000 But he's the one who allowed Blake's life to continue.

00:36:06.000 And I just I felt it so strongly because I've been I that's my world.

00:36:10.000 Like I know what that is.

00:36:11.000 Almost people were like, well, you know, you can't put him on air.

00:36:14.000 Like he did bad things.

00:36:15.000 I heard that.

00:36:16.000 And it's and Charlie was like, he was willing to stand up with him and say, no, that's not true.

00:36:21.000 Like most people are not gonna do that.

00:36:23.000 No one will do that.

00:36:24.000 And um, and I remember the nasty articles.

00:36:27.000 We there was a few.

00:36:28.000 And Charlie would just write back LOL.

00:36:32.000 So that's courage in case you're wondering what courage is.

00:36:35.000 That's actual courage, and you know that it is because it's so rare.

00:36:39.000 Nobody does that.

00:36:40.000 If if people do that, who are they?

00:36:42.000 I I live in this world, like I know every single person hosting every single show, and they don't do that.

00:36:46.000 And he did that.

00:36:48.000 And so that's what actual courage is.

00:36:50.000 Courage is standing up for what is true in the service of other people, in the service of showing love to other human beings.

00:36:57.000 That's the commission that we get from Jesus.

00:36:59.000 Period.

00:37:00.000 And he actually did that at great risk to himself.

00:37:04.000 And um, anyway, just I've had like 50 text exchanges about this whole week.

00:37:08.000 Anyway, bless you, Blake, for being at the center of that.

00:37:12.000 Thanks for standing with us.

00:37:13.000 Thank you.

00:37:14.000 Thank you very much.

00:37:14.000 Genuinely.

00:37:15.000 Can I say something that you told me that the night of that blew my mind?

00:37:20.000 And it goes for it.

00:37:21.000 Go for it.

00:37:21.000 So we're bringing Blake to the brink here.

00:37:23.000 We were we were in Provo the night of.

00:37:29.000 And it was like we were all shell-shocked.

00:37:32.000 And Blake was there with them when it happened.

00:37:36.000 And we filter in late at night into this little like corner of the restaurant, the hotel in Salt Lake City.

00:37:46.000 And I don't know how it came up, but Blake says the most I will never forget it.

00:37:53.000 He said, Charlie gave me my life back.

00:37:57.000 Yep.

00:37:58.000 And I knew exactly what he meant.

00:38:02.000 And now I think the audience does too.

00:38:04.000 Amen.

00:38:05.000 Our dear friend's seat remains open with the golden EIB microphone in front of it, his hero rush.

00:38:11.000 Uh it's pretty amazing.

00:38:12.000 And uh, but so Tucker, I this is this is the Tucker show for Charlie.

00:38:19.000 And so I think it's important that I get to ask you a question.

00:38:23.000 Okay.

00:38:24.000 When did you meet Charlie?

00:38:25.000 And tell us about how your relationship with Charlie grew.

00:38:27.000 Because I think it's fascinating.

00:38:28.000 So I met Charlie when he was a teenager.

00:38:31.000 He was um connected to, funded by a close friend of ours called Foster Freeze, who's a wonderful man from uh Wilmington, Delaware, well, really from Wisconsin, but lived in Wilmington and then Jackson, Wyoming.

00:38:44.000 Um, and was an investor in a company that we had, and more important, like an actual friend, really the only investor I've ever had in anything.

00:38:51.000 And um, in a very enthusiastic Christian man, and the kind of person who was just a collector of people, you know.

00:38:59.000 I met this person who was so enthusiastic, and almost everybody around him was just wonderful, but because he was so rich and so generous, he did collect there were phonies in the orbit because there always are when someone's rich, right?

00:39:12.000 And so he tells me at dinner about this kid he's met, he's only 18, he's not going to college.

00:39:17.000 I've always been opposed to college in my whole life.

00:39:19.000 I try to convince all my kids not to go.

00:39:21.000 I mean, I really meant it.

00:39:22.000 And so he's like, You would love this guy, he's not going to college.

00:39:25.000 And I was like, man, I love that because I really am opposed, and I mean it.

00:39:29.000 And um, I'm like, he sounds great.

00:39:30.000 And he's like, and I'm thinking, oh man, some fast talking kid has conflict throwing back Reagan quotes or something at poor Foster, you know, who's in his 70s and like late 60s, and he doesn't know.

00:39:44.000 And I really thought, assumed that Charlie was just some predator, and I didn't like it at all.

00:39:50.000 And of course, there's the bias against young people.

00:39:52.000 I mean, Charlie's literally the age of one of my children, so like uh, and I felt it's probably totally conventional telling old people what they want to hear, or sucking up to the donors, whatever. 0.97

00:40:03.000 So I meet him.

00:40:04.000 I thought he was smart as hell, but I was very skeptical.

00:40:08.000 Then I have this uh he calls me, would you do an event?

00:40:12.000 Sure, I was gonna be in the state anyway, so I do it, and we have this kind of sort of debate, not really a debate.

00:40:19.000 Well, what actually happened was I was gonna give a speech, and I got there, we were backstage.

00:40:23.000 He's like, Well, actually, let's just do a QA.

00:40:26.000 And I was like, I don't know, son, I don't think you want to do that with me, because I'm kind of a jerk.

00:40:31.000 Uh, you know, which I am in those settings, right?

00:40:34.000 So he's like, No, no, no, I I want to.

00:40:36.000 We we can it's okay to have a debate.

00:40:38.000 I was like, I don't know, man.

00:40:39.000 Like, I disagree with your views on economics and forum policy, and I'm pretty hot on these topics.

00:40:44.000 So I'm just letting you know that.

00:40:45.000 Oh, no problem at all.

00:40:47.000 So we end up having this kind of intense thing, and I'm like passionately opposed to marijuana and drugs.

00:40:55.000 I'm just having used a lot of drugs as a child.

00:40:57.000 Like I'm very opposed to drugs.

00:40:58.000 Charlie never used any drugs in his whole life, and he was at the time he was kind of libertarian on the subject.

00:41:03.000 And I remember saying, Everyone in the crowd is for weed, like you think you're so cool, but actually it's a control device designed to make you passive and accepting of the system that's destroying you.

00:41:14.000 And people kind of booed me or whatever, but Charlie looked at me like, hmm, I think that may be right.

00:41:21.000 And that it was that issue, it was weed of all issues, you know, it's not my top issue, but I do feel it really strongly.

00:41:27.000 I hate marijuana, okay?

00:41:29.000 And I know it's really cool, but no, it's like fully corporate, actually, and it's wrecking Americans, especially boys.

00:41:36.000 It's wrecking the parking lot of the grocery store nearby.

00:41:38.000 It makes me feel like getting my gun.

00:41:40.000 Like I really feel that way about it.

00:41:41.000 Sorry, I shouldn't say that, but I really am mad about it.

00:41:43.000 And Charlie got grooved with that, and that moment set off this like conversation.

00:41:48.000 So I was back, I was in Arizona for something.

00:41:50.000 He's like, let's go to lunch, let's go to dinner.

00:41:53.000 And we started having all these really intense conversations, start putting him on Fox, and his views were changing, and mine were too, by the way.

00:41:58.000 It's not like I converted him, it's like I had been all kinds of embarrassing things during the scope of my long life, a libertarian, a self-described neocon.

00:42:07.000 Can you imagine?

00:42:08.000 I mean, I'll I'll admit it, I like got mad at Alex Jones for asking questions about 9-11.

00:42:13.000 What?

00:42:14.000 Like, I was like a horrible person, or very close-minded person.

00:42:18.000 I was totally wrong about everything.

00:42:20.000 And so I didn't judge.

00:42:23.000 Like you should change your mind as the evidence changes.

00:42:25.000 The things you thought were gonna work didn't.

00:42:27.000 An honest man asks himself why they didn't work and what might work.

00:42:30.000 Like, that's the process of adulthood.

00:42:32.000 And Charlie, young people are very inflexible about what they believe.

00:42:35.000 I have found, and I I have a lot of young people, I have a lot of children.

00:42:39.000 He was one of the only young people I've ever met who was like, Oh, yeah, I think I was wrong.

00:42:44.000 And only belief in Jesus allows you to say that because you know that you're not judged.

00:42:51.000 You know that honesty is the ticket, and that if you pursue an honest path, you'll be okay.

00:42:57.000 And you don't need the adulation from the crowd, you don't need the love of strangers to feel good about yourself because you know that you are loved.

00:43:03.000 It gives you true freedom.

00:43:05.000 And he had that.

00:43:06.000 Charlie had no problem at all getting up and being like, I was a neocon.

00:43:10.000 And of course, it with me he didn't because he knew that I was too.

00:43:13.000 I'm like cheering on the Iraq war, which I did, like I literally did that, and I'm ashamed of it, but I'm also proud to admit it because I think that it's important to let people know that you can admit being wrong. 0.91

00:43:26.000 It's okay, it's all right.

00:43:27.000 We're people, we're not gods.

00:43:29.000 You can be wrong.

00:43:30.000 I want you to know, Tucker, that that must have gone deep because Blake can attest of all the fringe issues that he knew he was on the unpopular side.

00:43:39.000 He was very vehemently against weed.

00:43:44.000 No way.

00:43:45.000 Oh, he went hard on it.

00:43:47.000 Yes, I just I I think it you really got at it, where you know, one, he was totally unafraid of being in a huge minority on an issue.

00:43:54.000 And being frank about it, you know, people would ask, and he'd he'd be like, they'd ask him about like abortion, and he'd be like, Look, you know, my position on that is a tiny minority in the United States, and I'm going to keep trying anyway.

00:44:04.000 And he'd say that on you know, gay marriage, where the polls would say, you know, a big majority support it and all of that.

00:44:09.000 Um, and at the same time, yeah, the zero uh like shame about if he had to change his views.

00:44:15.000 You see that so often with politicians.

00:44:17.000 Well, actually, that was a different situation.

00:44:19.000 You know, I voted that way because you know it was it wasn't like that.

00:44:24.000 And he'll just be like, Oh no, I was wrong.

00:44:25.000 I you know, I hadn't thought about this.

00:44:27.000 But you can't be controlled.

00:44:28.000 If you will see, this is how the media control politicians.

00:44:31.000 They find some clip if the politician's saying something different 10 years ago.

00:44:34.000 It's like, well, it was a different country 10 years ago.

00:44:36.000 He would do that.

00:44:37.000 We would see these clips, you know, these really like they'd be like, look at here's Charlie defending, you know, this issue.

00:44:43.000 And and I would be like, ah, Charlie, they dug up that old clip, and he goes, Oh, yeah, I was a uh that was that was back when I was a cuck.

00:44:50.000 100% But there's no shame in that.

00:44:53.000 And and Charlie's example of admitting the truth about himself in public is the most Edifying and important thing you can ever do because it shows people you can take the leash off and you can live in freedom because you know you're loved, you can tell the truth, we're all gonna die anyway.

00:45:10.000 Is that this is the deepest truth, and your job is to be honest and to be loving to other people, okay?

00:45:17.000 That's your job.

00:45:18.000 Only belief in God allows that, and once you do it, it's like it's not only fine, it's great, it's actual liberation.

00:45:28.000 You said that I remember at the first Amphest when you came back.

00:45:32.000 So you had the debate and then you came back.

00:45:35.000 The unplanned debate.

00:45:36.000 Oh, I remember feeling so honored that you came back.

00:45:39.000 It was our first Amphest, and we really needed like somebody of your caliber and your your I'm gonna say it, you won't your fame, your your your the weight that you held in the movement, especially I mean, it it was an honor to us to have you there.

00:45:55.000 Oh, I was so excited.

00:45:56.000 Came out the first night, and you and you just said, Let me say a few words about Charlie.

00:46:00.000 He's willing to change his mind, he's willing to adapt, and and I knew that was your subtle nod to people who might have judged you.

00:46:08.000 Maybe you weren't even thinking that, but it felt like it was at least saying, like, listen, I know some of you think Charlie's a certain way.

00:46:13.000 Let me tell you, from that 2017 or whatever eighteen debate, to now it was thinking it was 2021, like a couple years had gone by since we'd had you back, and and then we've you know, you've been back ever since.

00:46:25.000 But it was it's it's so important, I just can't say it enough to be honest about yourself.

00:46:32.000 It's very easy to be honest about everybody else.

00:46:34.000 Oh, you're fat, I don't like your dress. 0.99

00:46:35.000 Like that's super easy.

00:46:37.000 It's very hard to be honest about yourself.

00:46:40.000 Like I'm fat, I'm wearing an ugly dress.

00:46:42.000 Like no one wants to admit that.

00:46:43.000 But once you do, you the fetters are off, and you are so free.

00:46:50.000 And Charlie just live that.

00:46:52.000 I feel like that's almost one of the most important things, is to admit the truth about yourself, and then no one can control you.

00:46:58.000 What can you say about me that I won't readily concede about myself?

00:47:03.000 Like nothing.

00:47:04.000 And then what are you gonna do to me?

00:47:06.000 You know, nothing.

00:47:07.000 Oh, it's it's amazing.

00:47:12.000 I always think about that other one, you know, it's a much more famous one, if by Rudyard Kipling.

00:47:17.000 Yes.

00:47:18.000 And it really does just perfectly describe Charlie.

00:47:23.000 Uh, you know, if you can, you know, speak with things but not lose the common touch, except if you and the really one the one that ends the poem, which you don't hear quoted as much.

00:47:31.000 If you can fill the unforgiving minute to Phoenix, 60 seconds distance right now.

00:47:35.000 I can only do the first half hour like uh, but he really did encapsulate all like everything of that poem about what it is to be a true man, to be a true adult, to be a heroic figure.

00:47:52.000 Uh I don't know.

00:47:53.000 Yeah, you want me to read it?

00:47:54.000 Yeah, go for it.

00:47:55.000 Yeah.

00:47:55.000 Okay.

00:47:57.000 Uh if you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, yeah.

00:48:03.000 If you can trust yourselves when all men doubt you, exactly yourself, but but make allowances for their doubting too.

00:48:11.000 If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, or being lied about, don't deal in lies, or being hated, don't give way to hating, and yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise.

00:48:26.000 If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim, if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two impostors just the same.

00:48:39.000 Exactly.

00:48:40.000 If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken, twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, or watch the things you gave your life to broken, and to stoop and build them up with worn-out tools.

00:48:55.000 If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss, and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss.

00:49:07.000 If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your law your turn long after you are gone, and so hold on when there is nothing in you except the will which says to them, Hold on.

00:49:21.000 If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, or walk with kings, nor lose the common touch, if neither foes Nor loving friends can hurt you if all men count with you, but none too much.

00:49:37.000 If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run, yours is the earth and everything that's in it, and which is more, you'll be a man, my son.

00:49:50.000 It's incredible.

00:49:51.000 And and the line that jumps out to me, which is the truest, and everyone I think understands it at some point.

00:49:57.000 If you can treat triumph and disasters, those two impostors the same, they are imposters, actually.

00:50:02.000 Because you know, I'm not trying to leech the meaning from the human experience.

00:50:07.000 It is meaningful, but it's not it's it's not the real point, actually.

00:50:11.000 And there is a sense in which this is it it just stands out to me how many of those things we just referenced in the past hour.

00:50:17.000 Yeah, and I bet being lied about, don't that's that's the one thing that I kept thinking about.

00:50:22.000 If you can wait and not be tired, no, or or being lied about, don't deal in lies or being hated, don't give way to hating.

00:50:28.000 And you know winning is the real trap.

00:50:32.000 Winning is the trap.

00:50:33.000 That that's where men destroy themselves.

00:50:34.000 That's what that was he and I talked about that uh recently, all the time.

00:50:38.000 Well, yeah.

00:50:38.000 But winning is when you decide that you're God.

00:50:42.000 That's the David moment for most men.

00:50:45.000 Surviving triumph is is the real trick, and so few can do it, and he could.

00:50:52.000 I think.

00:50:53.000 It's a beautiful thank you for bringing that.

00:50:55.000 Actually, Blake has brought two poems uh to us this week that um I am the egghead.

00:51:02.000 I mean that one about from World War World War One.

00:51:04.000 What was the name of that poem?

00:51:05.000 Uh for the fallen.

00:51:06.000 For the fallen Blake can read poetry in a very heterosexual way, which is saying that I just did it in a non-profit.

00:51:12.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:51:13.000 That was that was so straight it was unbelievable.

00:51:16.000 I'm just saying you don't meet a lot of guys who are like, I want to be some poetry with you.

00:51:19.000 I've never I've never been accused of a unblemished record of heterosexuality.

00:51:24.000 And you know it's funny.

00:51:25.000 I'm stealing that line from Charlie Kirk.

00:51:27.000 He would always say I have an unblemished record of heterosexuality.

00:51:31.000 But you don't get enough credit for something.

00:51:33.000 I just want people to understand that Tucker, I mean, I've seen you backstage, I don't know, more times than I can count now.

00:51:40.000 And you are the exact same with the guy who's taken out the trash as our PAs and our assistants and the people in between, as you are with Charlie or me or Blake.

00:51:53.000 You are the exact same human, and I I really want everybody to know that about you because you wouldn't say it about yourself.

00:51:58.000 You treat everybody like you I can't tell you how many times I that has occurred to me because you'll be s I'll be needing to drag you somewhere where you need you to go, but you're deep into a conversation in the corner with you know, the the the assistant that like I don't even know know that I necessarily knew the name of the assistant because we have so many plays around here, and you would just be like engrossed in this deep conversation, and I would feel bad, you know.

00:52:22.000 Oh, we gotta grab Tucker, he's gotta go on stage in like five minutes or something.

00:52:26.000 And I love that about you, man, and I just want the world to know.

00:52:29.000 Well, thank you.

00:52:30.000 No, I mean I love people, and I you know, God created everyone.

00:52:33.000 But it's also true that I grew up in rich people world back when it was an egalitarian world.

00:52:38.000 It's one of the main changes in my country's in my lifetime is that rich people are not egalitarian anymore, but I grew up, you know, in an affluent family around rich people, and you know, the housekeeper comes to Thanksgiving dinner, period.

00:52:49.000 Period.

00:52:50.000 And that's a wasp thing. 1.00

00:52:51.000 I'm just gonna say it out loud, that's a wasp thing, and that's gone.

00:52:54.000 But we felt that very, very strongly.

00:52:57.000 And um, I just think that's right.

00:53:01.000 It's not gone because we still believe it.

00:53:02.000 And you still believe it.

00:53:04.000 I really believe it.

00:53:05.000 I really believe I'll just say one thing.

00:53:07.000 Everyone hates the wasps, and I beat up on them constantly.

00:53:10.000 But in the club that I spent my life at, I don't even know if they're clubs anymore, but the only thing you could do to get booted from the club was to be rude to the staff, period.

00:53:17.000 You could be drunk, they're always drunk, of course.

00:53:19.000 Um, you could be, you know, whatever, you could say anything.

00:53:22.000 But if you were rude to a waiter, you were gone.

00:53:24.000 I mean, they wouldn't even have a hearing about it because so deep was the was the culture on that question.

00:53:30.000 It's that you we are all underneath it all the same.

00:53:34.000 We're all created by God.

00:53:35.000 We have different aptitudes or language, and we're very different in a lot of ways, but fundamentally we're all gonna stand alone before God.

00:53:40.000 And that was the idea that spawned to the Democratic Republic that we grew up in anyway.

00:53:46.000 That that's the that's the core idea of America that is never articulated anymore.

00:53:51.000 We didn't have fast track at Disney World when I was growing up.

00:53:55.000 And I still feel that way, and I'm married to a chick who really feels that way.

00:53:58.000 I mean, really feels You get married in my family, and you know the guy who cuts her grass is coming to your wedding, whether you like it or not. 0.79

00:54:04.000 Like that's that's the rule in my house.

00:54:07.000 I love that you're I'm not saying that to make myself sound virtuous.

00:54:10.000 It's just like that is something that we have lost, and we have to fight to regain that, and all these like little fake aristocrats flying around in their planes.

00:54:17.000 That's one of the reasons I really am upset with them is because they've forgotten that specific thing.

00:54:23.000 Charlie wanted better elites.

00:54:24.000 And yes, yes.

00:54:27.000 And I yeah, I mean, you you model it, and it's not gone because we're talking about it right now, and maybe we can bring it back.

00:54:34.000 Um, in the spirit of actually doing a show, we have uh I have this great clip that I I can't wait to share with everybody, but uh we're gonna bring in Frank Turek, who um crosstalk, he was with Charlie on the day.

00:54:51.000 Charlie um he would go to Frank with ideas of apologetics and how to argue for the faith and contend for the faith in the public square.

00:55:00.000 So Frank, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show with uh Tucker Carlson, the great Tucker Carlson with us.

00:55:05.000 Hey, hey, I just want to piggyback on something Tucker just said.

00:55:09.000 The only world view that agrees with what Tucker just said is Christianity.

00:55:14.000 You know, in in Hinduism, there's a caste system in Islam. 0.72

00:55:18.000 If you're not a Muslim, you're a second-class citizen. 1.00

00:55:21.000 In the secular world, there's no way to ground uh these moral values and the moral worth that every individual has.

00:55:29.000 The only world view that does that is Christianity, and that was the world view that Charlie and everybody here at this table right now wants to demonstrate is true and try and persuade young people to follow.

00:55:47.000 I love that you said that.

00:55:48.000 I I think that that is indisputably true.

00:55:51.000 I think it's provable.

00:55:52.000 I mean, you know, the founding documents still exist.

00:55:55.000 We we know what the people who wrote them were thinking, and they were informed by a culture that is a product of Christian civilization, period.

00:56:02.000 Western civilization is Christian civilization, and they're I I'm not against other religions, by the way.

00:56:08.000 I don't follow them, but I'm not mad at them.

00:56:10.000 I'm just gonna want to say that.

00:56:11.000 I'm not.

00:56:11.000 I know a lot of great people who are of different faiths, but Christianity is unique in that it's true, and it's unique in that it believes that every person is at least potentially chosen by God, every person.

00:56:24.000 And and and the whole New Testament is that story, by the way.

00:56:28.000 And and so Christians feel that deeply, the cultures that they create reflect it, and I grieve its passing, and I pray for its return to our country. 1.00

00:56:36.000 Well, ironically, Tucker, Charlie's martyrdom might be the turning point to bring it back.

00:56:45.000 I don't know.

00:56:47.000 Well, you do know because you're seeing what's going on at TPUSA right now.

00:56:51.000 Yes.

00:56:52.000 How many people want to start TPUSA chapters?

00:56:56.000 What's it what are we up to now, Andrew?

00:56:57.000 Is it 62,000, something like that?

00:56:59.000 Yeah, it's I mean, it's growing by the minute, so it's probably let's just say approximately 65,000.

00:57:05.000 Whoa.

00:57:06.000 It's they we had we had 2,000 before that.

00:57:10.000 I mean, I'm I'm I'm seeing people online on some YouTube videos that have to do with Charlie, some of my own YouTube videos.

00:57:18.000 They're all over the world.

00:57:19.000 There's people in Denmark going, you know, I was an atheist, and because of Charlie Kirk, I'm a Christian now.

00:57:24.000 Australia, same thing.

00:57:26.000 London, same thing.

00:57:29.000 This isn't just in America, this is happening all over the world.

00:57:34.000 And so I want to commend every one of you for uh advancing the cause that Charlie so uh was so near and dear to Charlie's heart in a time of mourning.

00:57:48.000 It's gotta be so difficult, Andrew and Blake, especially to uh to continue on, but Charlie would want it, and that's why we're all here right now.

00:57:57.000 Well, and Frank, I you know, bless you.

00:58:00.000 I know you've had to deal with the conspiracy theories and the you know, why'd you touch your hat at this time?

00:58:06.000 Because, you know, that wretched video.

00:58:09.000 I mean, but bless you, brother.

00:58:12.000 I just want to be uh I just want to be a character reference for you.

00:58:17.000 And uh Charlie loved you so much.

00:58:20.000 You were always there for Charlie, and I know how much he leaned on you for apologetics and for thinking through these deep issues, you know, around the when he was on Bill Maher recently, and you know uh you you've meant so much to him and your work at cross examine.

00:58:35.000 Like you are a dear brother and a dear friend, and some of that garbage, like I don't even pay to any heed, but I know you uh have you were there the day that it happened.

00:58:44.000 I know this has been terrible for you too, and you've had to deal with all this garbage, but um, you know, God bless you, and I'm sorry that that has been something in your experience.

00:58:55.000 Thanks, brother.

00:58:56.000 I mean, that's that actually hasn't bothered me all that much to tell you the truth.

00:59:01.000 I just think it's so colossally stupid that if somebody wanted to shoot somebody, they'd need a guy standing 25 feet from them to signal hey, get him, he's the guy.

00:59:10.000 I mean he's it it makes absolutely no sense at all.

00:59:15.000 So uh it was just a terrible day, but we all did the best we could to try and help and save Charlie, and then once we couldn't, all we could do was take Erica's lead and your lead, Andrew, and Mikey's lead, because you were all there to march forward and and take his legacy to new levels, and Lord willing, that's what's gonna happen.

00:59:40.000 Well, Frank, you're gonna be a key part of that.

00:59:43.000 And um, you know, I I joke with Erica, I'm like, Erica, he left us all the keys.

00:59:49.000 He had all the people that we needed, all the all the reference points, all the all the true allies, not the snakes, not the not the the grifters, the true people.

00:59:59.000 And you are a true man, and you have great character, and you have great heart, and you've been a great friend to Charlie and to us.

01:00:06.000 So you know thank you, brother.

01:00:08.000 As you have to meet, say it a thousand times over.

01:00:11.000 Thank you.

01:00:12.000 But um let's just do it whatever we can to advance this legacy now.

01:00:18.000 And that you mentioned it, Erica, and I um do you want to hit I do want to hit that because um, you know, there have been reference, I know that a lot of stuff going on online.

01:00:27.000 I've checked out actually.

01:00:28.000 Just want to say that because it's too upsetting to me.

01:00:30.000 I know it's extremely upsetting for you guys since you're way more in the middle of it than I am.

01:00:34.000 Um, but I obviously you need a fair, impartial, well-explained investigation that assures everyone the rule of law lives in the United States.

01:00:44.000 I think it's essential, and I hope that we get it.

01:00:46.000 I think we're gonna have to push for it.

01:00:47.000 We should push for it.

01:00:49.000 But as to what happened, again, totally fair in my view to to ask sincere questions, but I think it's important to remember the big picture, which is whatever happened, it was a species of the same phenomenon, which was the fight of evil against good.

01:01:03.000 And his murder was an attempt to extinguish the light, period.

01:01:07.000 And it it didn't work.

01:01:09.000 Like that that's the main thing to know.

01:01:11.000 There are lots of things I I want to know, and again, we have a civil system that has to go through a process in order to for this government to continue, or any government, it has to be transparent and motivated by good faith, and it has to try to affect justice.

01:01:23.000 That's a key.

01:01:23.000 And I I don't think we should blow past it.

01:01:25.000 However, again, big picture, this is light versus dark, and you feel the darkness all around us.

01:01:32.000 It comes in many different forms and many different guises.

01:01:36.000 These are these are disguises, okay.

01:01:38.000 But what it really is is the age-old, you know, it's the it's the Lord of the earth.

01:01:43.000 It's it's Satan.

01:01:44.000 Sorry to say that.

01:01:45.000 It is deliver us from the evil one.

01:01:48.000 I think is the actual translation in the words of prayer.

01:01:50.000 And the evil one is all around us, but Charlie's murder is a reminder that we are surrounded by God and God's protection and God's love, and that is so obvious.

01:02:01.000 The light has not only not been extinguished, it's glowing brighter.

01:02:05.000 I I hate like dumb metaphors like that, except this one is totally real.

01:02:10.000 And so we should, or I speak for myself.

01:02:13.000 I'm going to focus on that.

01:02:14.000 I'm gonna focus on the big picture while demanding uh precise accounting.

01:02:19.000 That is legitimate, but I'm not gonna get so caught up in that stuff that I miss the true message, which is for forces of darkness tried to extinguish the light, and not only did they fail, their effort was counterproductive.

01:02:34.000 That is the truth.

01:02:38.000 Frank, that was I was just sorry, I got I was I was in sort of wrapped by what you were saying.

01:02:45.000 Sorry, I felt that.

01:02:45.000 I felt it coming up I couldn't keep it down.

01:02:48.000 It was beautiful.

01:02:49.000 I was looking for somebody else to respond here quickly.

01:02:51.000 Well, let me let me mention something related to that.

01:02:53.000 Uh, you know, our mutual friend James Lindsay uh had a text exchange with Charlie.

01:02:59.000 In fact, He sent it to me the other night because I was speaking at a university here in North Carolina on one Wednesday night about Charlie, and I related this story.

01:03:10.000 And let me just let me just read you what James sent to uh Charlie and what Charlie sent back, very astute response by Charlie.

01:03:18.000 James said, This is August 24th, 2023.

01:03:21.000 Communism is by far the best evidence in support of Satan's existence.

01:03:26.000 Charlie writes back 100%.

01:03:28.000 And then the next text, he writes back if there is a Satan, then there is a God.

01:03:33.000 And James writes back, that would follow.

01:03:37.000 So evil actually shows that God does exist, not that he doesn't, because there'd be no such thing as evil unless there was good, and there'd be no such thing as good unless God existed.

01:03:47.000 Because in any objective sense, the only way you can define good is God's nature.

01:03:52.000 Otherwise, everything's a matter of opinion.

01:03:54.000 You couldn't say murder was really objectively wrong unless there's a standard of objectively right that we're all obligated to obey.

01:04:01.000 And what we mean by that is God's nature.

01:04:03.000 And as Tucker pointed out earlier, our founders understood that.

01:04:06.000 We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men were created and endowed by their government.

01:04:11.000 No, it doesn't say that.

01:04:12.000 Endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

01:04:16.000 So if evil exists and it all does we all know it does, we saw it eight days ago, then God exists.

01:04:23.000 Well, and that is honestly the way that a lot of us were convinced of the reality of God was by being forced to acknowledge the reality of evil.

01:04:34.000 I can say that for myself.

01:04:36.000 My wife, who's like the person the person who keeps our family text chain grounded in the truth, sent a verse this morning that basically said that exact thing, and there are a number of them throughout both old and new testaments as you know better than I, but that say that God will use evil for his purposes and that he will reveal himself through through through sadness as well as joy.

01:04:56.000 And that is practically true.

01:04:58.000 It's not even a theoretical concept, it's a living concept for those of us who concluded just on the basis of the evidence that these were not political differences actually.

01:05:06.000 These were not political phenomena.

01:05:07.000 These were a bunch of different things.

01:05:08.000 I won't get specific, but you know what I'm talking about.

01:05:10.000 This is the face of evil.

01:05:12.000 And that brought us to the reality of God.

01:05:15.000 It's like wild, that actually happened.

01:05:16.000 It happened to me.

01:05:20.000 I uh I'm loving all of this because it's uh making my my head spinning.

01:05:24.000 So um I want to say one thing about I want everybody to know, and I know Blake, you've been contemplating this too.

01:05:33.000 But Charlie was willing to give the very last measure of his effort and his life.

01:05:40.000 He really was, and he said it multiple times.

01:05:43.000 And I think the first time he said it on stage, he you know, it wasn't something that was planned, it came out of him naturally, and Erica heard it, and Erica was like you be careful when you say that.

01:05:57.000 Please, you know.

01:06:00.000 And that's really powerful.

01:06:04.000 But he said it again and again.

01:06:06.000 He said it on a Lance Walnow show, I remember one time saying, like, you know, I I mean, and he was very aware of the story of Stephen.

01:06:15.000 He was very well aware of the of the prophets, and he was very well aware that people were want that wanted to hurt him.

01:06:23.000 And it never stopped him.

01:06:27.000 And I think we need to remember that when we when we think about evil and we think about death, where is your victory?

01:06:34.000 Oh, death, where is your sting?

01:06:37.000 It's the last thing that you know, it's like you said, it it it they tried, they meant it for evil, but the Lord is taking it and he's turning it to good and for the saving of many lives.

01:06:47.000 And I always was caught by that wording in the scriptures the saving of many lives.

01:06:52.000 Obviously, he's talking about the Israelites in that instance, but it as we contemplate it for our own moment, the saving of many lives.

01:07:00.000 And you know, I think about all these baptisms and all these reports of the churches being overflowing and across the country, and these we didn't riot Tucker, we didn't burn businesses, we didn't tear down windows and doors.

01:07:13.000 We we prayed.

01:07:14.000 And that is the biggest most amazing testament to the character of Charlie Kirk.

01:07:19.000 Well, and but it's the also the nature of or it has been my experience anyway.

01:07:23.000 I'm not a theologian, but I just will say that the I've had many moments, especially in the last 10 years where boy, you can feel It around you, like for real.

01:07:31.000 You can feel the menace, you can feel the hate, you can feel the threat.

01:07:34.000 Comes out of nowhere.

01:07:36.000 I've had a couple pretty intense experiences with it, very intense.

01:07:39.000 And they are followed invariably by the peace of God by the Holy Spirit.

01:07:44.000 And you know that God is using this moment for your benefit, your edification, and your joy.

01:07:49.000 That is true.

01:07:50.000 That out of tragedy, I it and it's such a cliche and it's such a kind of syrupy hallmark false assurance on the surface that I hesitate even to say it, but I've just lived it so much.

01:08:01.000 I've lived it so much.

01:08:02.000 That is absolutely how God has communicated with me in my life, like directly, is by contrasting his presence with the evil that you feel around you.

01:08:12.000 And so it is in a weird way in the middle of tragedy, like a true blessing.

01:08:16.000 And if you see a loved one, you know, we all go through this as we age.

01:08:19.000 I've been through it a lot recently, where someone you really, really love dies.

01:08:23.000 And then you're just filled with this sense of the presence of God.

01:08:26.000 That's absolutely real.

01:08:27.000 It's not, you're not manufacturing it.

01:08:29.000 It's it's not like a immune response or something.

01:08:32.000 It's like a presence from outside coming into you.

01:08:35.000 And um, and I think the whole country feels it, or the people who are alive to it feel it now strongly.

01:08:42.000 In fact, the greatest evil of all time, the sacrifice of Jesus has led to the greatest good.

01:08:48.000 Yes.

01:08:49.000 Without the sacrifice of Jesus, we'd all be dead in our sins.

01:08:53.000 But Christ was sacrificed so that our punishment could be put on him.

01:08:59.000 And when we trust in him, we're not only forgiven, but we're given his righteousness.

01:09:04.000 You know, there's a misunderstanding among some.

01:09:06.000 They think in order to get to heaven, I gotta be good.

01:09:09.000 No, no, no, no.

01:09:10.000 There's nobody good enough.

01:09:11.000 Jesus said there's nobody good but one, and that was him.

01:09:15.000 In order to give to heaven, you need to take his sacrifice and apply it to yourself.

01:09:21.000 You need to take the punishment that went on him, and you you trust in him to get that forgiveness because your punishment was put on him, and then by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness.

01:09:35.000 So good works are a result of Christianity. 0.98

01:09:38.000 They're not the cause of Christianity.

01:09:40.000 The cause of Christianity in someone's life is to trust in what Christ has done, and out of love for what Christ has done, then you'll do good works.

01:09:49.000 By the way, I'm I'm really I'm really struck by a quote from Peter Kreft, who said this about what evil can do in our lives to help us become more like Christ.

01:09:59.000 He said this he said the point of our lives is not comfort, security, or even happiness, but training, not fulfillment, but preparation.

01:10:08.000 This world is a lousy home, but it's a fine gymnasium.

01:10:12.000 Well, well, Frank, um, I just want to say again, I know you've got uh catch a flight here.

01:10:17.000 So God bless you, my friend.

01:10:19.000 Thank you for joining us.

01:10:20.000 Thank you for being such a rock in Charlie's life.

01:10:23.000 Uh I I'll say it, you don't have to give them any heed.

01:10:26.000 I'm sorry about the conspiracy theories, specifically around you and some of my other friends that were around the table.

01:10:32.000 Um, they are utter garbage, and we stand by you a hundred percent, my friend.

01:10:37.000 And uh just thank you for being just an amazing guy, and you meant so much to Charlie, and and we'll see you in a few days.

01:10:44.000 Thank you, brother.

01:10:45.000 Thank you, Tucker.

01:10:46.000 Thank you, Blake.

01:10:46.000 Thanks, Frank.

01:10:47.000 God bless you guys.

01:10:48.000 Thank you.

01:10:49.000 So Charlie was very well aware of the existence of evil, obviously.

01:10:54.000 So were us on his team.

01:10:56.000 You know, there's a by the way, just one other conspiracy theory.

01:10:59.000 I just want to snuff out here.

01:11:01.000 One of our dear friends that literally from the very beginning started with us and loved Charlie like a brother.

01:11:10.000 He grabbed the SD cards out of the camera afterwards, and there's all these conspiracy videos about like why did he grab the SD cards?

01:11:19.000 Well, first of all, they're in the possession of the FBI.

01:11:22.000 Okay.

01:11:22.000 It's not like he took them and like ran off with them.

01:11:25.000 Second of all, I asked him personally, I said, Why did you do that?

01:11:28.000 And he looked at me, and this was his answer.

01:11:30.000 He said, Because I know people can be evil.

01:11:34.000 And he did not want that footage being grabbed by somebody.

01:11:37.000 There was videos of people after the incident going and stealing hats off the table.

01:11:42.000 I mean, so I'm so grateful he did that, and that that was his instinct.

01:11:47.000 He's like, I'm depressed to know that that was why I did that, but I knew that I had to protect that footage because I know I wanted I mean, you know, you're recording in like 4K, you know.

01:11:57.000 And so I'm so glad he did that.

01:11:59.000 But Charlie knew the existence of evil.

01:12:01.000 Well, can I say I think that people can feel the existence of evil and that just to put in a sympathetic word for people who are trying to make sense of this and coming to the wrong conclusions.

01:12:10.000 I think they're motivated for the most part by pure intent.

01:12:14.000 I think they don't trust the authorities.

01:12:16.000 They have every reason to feel that way.

01:12:18.000 I know that for a fact.

01:12:19.000 Not the Trump administration.

01:12:20.000 In general, like we're not, you know, there's been a lot of lying, and it's corroded the trust.

01:12:25.000 That's not their fault, actually.

01:12:27.000 They're the victims of it.

01:12:29.000 Um they're, of course, bad actors who are doing it for clicks or whatever, but I think I guess, but there are far more people who love Charlie, they loved what he stood for.

01:12:40.000 They feel like he was murdered by evil.

01:12:42.000 They're absolutely right.

01:12:43.000 They're not sure what variety of evil.

01:12:45.000 There's no authoritative person to tell them.

01:12:47.000 So I guess I'm just not surprised that oh, this is a message I've told to a lot of people.

01:12:52.000 This is what happens when you lie too much and you uh hide too much.

01:12:56.000 And going forward, I just want everybody with power to be honest in the way that Charlie was honest, about themselves.

01:13:03.000 That will do more than anything to fix this, to make people love each other and hear each other.

01:13:09.000 And if people are honest, it we got here because of lying.

01:13:14.000 And the only antidote is truth.

01:13:17.000 And so truth about yourself, not about other people.

01:13:19.000 Stop talking about other people.

01:13:21.000 Admit who you are.

01:13:22.000 And once you do that, people can feel that, and they immediately, as they did with Charlie, they respond to it.

01:13:28.000 They're like, I believe you because you're honest about you.

01:13:31.000 Anyway, I want that.

01:13:33.000 Yeah, I a buddy of mine just said something that I I think is really profound.

01:13:38.000 He said, Two people, and I believe this about you too, Tucker, which is why you're so important.

01:13:43.000 But two people can say the same thing could say the same thing.

01:13:46.000 Two just as imagine Charlie Kirk, 30 million followers across social media, and somebody else also very prominent.

01:13:53.000 Yes.

01:13:53.000 And they would say the same thing.

01:13:55.000 But when Charlie said it, it would echo and ripple across the world.

01:14:00.000 Yeah, because we're all like we're all animals, by the way.

01:14:03.000 And so so much of what we know we receive nonverbally.

01:14:06.000 We can smell each other.

01:14:07.000 We can feel the vibe.

01:14:08.000 I don't care if that sounds flaky, it's true.

01:14:10.000 My dogs can do it, and so can you.

01:14:12.000 And if a deceptive man is speaking, I don't believe what he says, even if it's factually accurate.

01:14:17.000 And if an honest man is speaking, I know it.

01:14:19.000 I can feel it.

01:14:21.000 That's that's why everyone loves Blake, despite his eccentricity.

01:14:24.000 You're honest too.

01:14:25.000 He is honest.

01:14:26.000 He's not a liar.

01:14:27.000 And Charlie was the same, and we just know that.

01:14:29.000 You can't dissuade me of that.

01:14:31.000 I know that's true.

01:14:32.000 Let's go ahead and play cut 20.

01:14:33.000 This is Charlie talking about the existence of evil revealing God's presence.

01:14:40.000 Ethical monotheists, we have the problem of evil. 1.00

01:14:43.000 Atheists have evil no problem. 0.98

01:14:46.000 On the atheist side, they can't say that evil actually exists because without God, if God does not exist, then we are nothing more than just a clump of cells, and there is no such thing as evil.

01:14:58.000 You only know something is evil if you have good to compare it to.

01:15:03.000 If I have a piece of paper and I draw a crooked line, how do you know this line is crooked?

01:15:09.000 You immediately look at it, you say that's a crooked, squiggly line.

01:15:12.000 Only because in your mind, you know what a straight line is.

01:15:18.000 But if you don't believe in God, then you say evil's no problem.

01:15:21.000 But if you are upset with it, you actually are implying that you believe in God.

01:15:24.000 You might be angry at God.

01:15:26.000 You might be wrestling with God.

01:15:28.000 You might think that God is unjust.

01:15:30.000 That's a completely different thing than not believing in God.

01:15:35.000 There's no one who doesn't believe in God.

01:15:38.000 Everyone believes in God because the spirit of God is within us because he made us.

01:15:41.000 The divine spark exists whether you acknowledge it or not.

01:15:44.000 So your options are three.

01:15:46.000 Either you acknowledge it and try to live by it, you ignore it and numb yourself, or you rage against it.

01:15:52.000 And so that would be the atheists, the agnostics, and the Christians in reverse order. 0.96

01:15:56.000 And you can see them immediately.

01:15:59.000 You know, the the agnostics are numb, the atheists are enraged, and the Christians have peace.

01:16:03.000 But you're up you don't have any other options because it's just real.

01:16:07.000 It pre-exists you, and every single person feels it.

01:16:11.000 Well, honestly, Tucker, thank you so much for making the time.

01:16:14.000 By the way, everything we've asked of you, you just said whatever I could do.

01:16:18.000 Yes, I'll clear my schedule.

01:16:19.000 Yes, absolutely.

01:16:20.000 And um, that's a that's just how you are, and I love that about you.

01:16:23.000 Well, I want to get on the road.

01:16:24.000 I mean, my favorite thing that Charlie did in his professional life was get out and physically speak to people in their physical Presence.

01:16:30.000 I think that's so important.

01:16:31.000 I love the internet, I guess.

01:16:33.000 Um pretend to love the internet.

01:16:34.000 I hate it.

01:16:35.000 But mostly I love being with people physically and smelling them.

01:16:38.000 And he was like the last person who really loved that.

01:16:41.000 And he got murdered.

01:16:43.000 And I just I grieve his death, of course.

01:16:46.000 But I also am really concerned that that whole thing will die.

01:16:50.000 It's so important to be there physically.

01:16:52.000 Like ask me anything in my physical presence.

01:16:55.000 And so I'm doing that for you guys.

01:16:57.000 I'll do as much as you want because I just really believe in that.

01:17:01.000 Well, you you uh we were gonna save that for Monday, but I so they announced it.

01:17:09.000 But yeah, so breaking news.

01:17:11.000 You guys want me to go out there, I will do it.

01:17:13.000 Yeah, breaking news here, Tucker Carlson uh will be a part of continuing Charlie's legacy by uh touring uh with us wherever you want.

01:17:22.000 Um it'll be at least one stop.

01:17:25.000 We'll say it like that during grouse season, and so that's like the ultimate expression of love.

01:17:29.000 Talk about laying down your life.

01:17:32.000 I love season take up your cross daily.

01:17:36.000 So I want to entitled I want to p I want to pivot this conversation to uh Charlie's wife, yes, Erica Kirk.

01:17:42.000 Um and I joked yesterday or yeah, I got Doc Crum.

01:17:45.000 I got a little you guys you guys razzed me about it.

01:17:47.000 But I was quoting Blake and because it came out, it was just this like amazing thing, and I I should know better than to air private conversations publicly.

01:17:56.000 But Blake Erica was referenced, and Blake just goes, what a woman. 1.00

01:18:02.000 Dude, she's unbelievable. 1.00

01:18:04.000 She's amazing.

01:18:04.000 I was in Phoenix flying to Phoenix or something else, and Charlie texted me on the plane and said, I heard you're coming to Phoenix because he knew everybody.

01:18:10.000 I was like, How do you know that?

01:18:11.000 He goes, Do you have time for lunch?

01:18:13.000 Yes.

01:18:14.000 I had nothing to do with him, was not here for turning point at all.

01:18:16.000 And he so I meet him at lunch with his girlfriend, Erica, and he wants me to introduce me to her.

01:18:21.000 And I called Susie, my wife, after, and I was like, because my longstanding view has been you know, it's critical.

01:18:27.000 Like I really believe in marriage, but not for like syrupy reasons, like I think it really matters.

01:18:32.000 I was like, that chick is a star. 1.00

01:18:35.000 I mean, she was just like, no, this is what's true, and that's not true.

01:18:41.000 I mean, she is tough, is not exactly the right word because it's from love, it's from Christian faith, it's from faith in Jesus, but it like, oh man, uninframe Oh my gosh, unwavering.

01:18:54.000 And uh, you want to know a crazy thing.

01:18:55.000 I love that you want to know a crazy thing I just realized last night.

01:18:59.000 So Andrew Breitbart dies in 2012.

01:19:04.000 That March 1st.

01:19:06.000 That inspires Charlie Kirk to start turning point USA in 2012.

01:19:11.000 Guess what else happened in 2012?

01:19:13.000 And we talk about people getting prepared and these little like nuggets that you you think about.

01:19:17.000 I just realized this.

01:19:19.000 Erica Kirk won Miss Arizona in 2012, and hung out with Donald Trump in 2012 because of that. 0.85

01:19:27.000 I know.

01:19:28.000 And so I don't know.

01:19:29.000 There there are no coincidences, and it's it, but you can just see how God was preparing them.

01:19:34.000 And and you know, Erica as well, you know, Erica grew up with a single mom.

01:19:41.000 Yeah, and so you know, obviously you wanted Charlie's kids to know their father in a deep and profound personal way, but Erica is uniquely, even in the midst of that tragedy, is uniquely able to navigate that, even just conceptually and emotionally something I've talked to her about, and it's it's powerful even hearing her as she's working these pieces out.

01:20:06.000 And I again I don't want to share too much privately.

01:20:08.000 So they said this publicly, and I just love it.

01:20:11.000 And I shared this on Twitter uh X the other day, and it went viral.

01:20:15.000 So uh let's go ahead and play cut uh 19.

01:20:18.000 One of my favorite interactions to Charlie and Erica.

01:20:21.000 My wife joins us, Erica Kirk, the beautiful legendary Erica.

01:20:25.000 I love you so much.

01:20:26.000 I love you.

01:20:26.000 You're my best friend.

01:20:27.000 Welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

01:20:29.000 We have asked the audience for questions.

01:20:31.000 You pick one.

01:20:32.000 Who is more conservative and why?

01:20:34.000 Erica.

01:20:36.000 Yes.

01:20:37.000 By far, not even close.

01:20:39.000 I am a moderate compared to Erica.

01:20:42.000 Andrew always jokes that once you got married to me, you got more base.

01:20:46.000 That's true.

01:20:46.000 That is true.

01:20:47.000 No, Erica is very conservative. 1.00

01:20:50.000 Do you think having kids made you more conservative?

01:20:52.000 100%.

01:20:54.000 Which I didn't think was possible.

01:20:57.000 But a hundred percent.

01:20:59.000 Absolutely.

01:21:00.000 And do you think a better wife? 1.00

01:21:02.000 Boy, that's the realest thing ever.

01:21:04.000 It's hard to talk about your marriage because no one believes you.

01:21:07.000 Of course, because it's like it's your wife, you can't say anything bad, but like I just know for a fact that that's true. 0.62

01:21:13.000 It's really true.

01:21:14.000 Yeah.

01:21:15.000 Yeah.

01:21:16.000 And by the way, I should note, because I can't control myself that there was a picture of them in Maine, which they loved.

01:21:22.000 That makes me sad.

01:21:23.000 Yeah.

01:21:24.000 Well, Charlie was a bad, he was bad at vacations.

01:21:27.000 Yeah, terrible at vacation.

01:21:28.000 So he was in Maine this summer on vacation.

01:21:31.000 And he was I just loved how it kept like, oh well, okay, Fox and Friends want me to wants to be a guest, so we're gonna take the weekend, like the best days of the vacation, you know, where he could actually maybe Erica was just totally game for it.

01:21:43.000 She was like, Cool, let's go to New York.

01:21:45.000 No, they came to my house, and uh he's like, I want to buy a house here.

01:21:47.000 I was like, Oh, you got to.

01:21:50.000 The state needs you, it's good, you know.

01:21:53.000 And that's I'm sorry that they didn't, but it's just been amazing to hear her talk about you know, not just their relationship, but like how as you know, how they both viewed marriage, and you know what you're saying.

01:22:04.000 The last the last exchange I had with Charlie by text message just on the way to the event.

01:22:11.000 He was uh I was Blake what what are the best arguments for monogamy?

01:22:15.000 And it gets back to that, you know, the Christian civilization stuff we talked about, because he loved all the takes I'd give him where I'm like, yeah, you know, Christian marriage is in the Bible, but it it's also this like secret weapon that made the West great and like countries that follow Christian marriage, like they're amazing, they excel, they improve, they get better, they have harmony between men and women far more than any other civilization.

01:22:38.000 He loved all of that, and so I was rattling all that often.

01:22:40.000 I I think the last thing I got from him is he like hearted a list that I posted.

01:22:44.000 And then ten minutes later he was on the stage.

01:22:47.000 Yeah, and yeah, those those I I've looked back at those because there's a I was on that text chain and I was chiming in, and they were the last text that I exchanged with them too, and it was like 30 minutes before it happened, and yeah, we were talking about marriage.

01:22:59.000 It's a it that is funny.

01:23:01.000 When they talk about you know, hearing Erica talk about it where she'll say stuff that sounds unbelievable to you, you know.

01:23:07.000 She they'll peep she's like, people would ask me, you know, did you get mad at Charlie because he traveled so much and was doing so many things?

01:23:13.000 And she's like, No, I didn't.

01:23:16.000 And it was because we were on the same team.

01:23:18.000 We were on the same mission, and I would have never wanted to in any way be hindering from him executing God's mission, and he would have never wanted to fail in any way in me executing the mission God gave me.

01:23:32.000 But she was sh but when he was present, you know, he he practiced Shabbat, not because he's Jewish, but because he needed sort of a a discipline to follow.

01:23:42.000 And so from sundown on uh on Friday, really all of Saturday, it was like he was off.

01:23:47.000 He turns out you couldn't call him, you couldn't get a hold of him.

01:23:50.000 I mean, there was ways if an emergency happened that I could get a hold of him.

01:23:54.000 But and it was legit, but it was legit.

01:23:55.000 You'd see the wave of him like reading the things you sent on like Friday night or Saturday.

01:24:02.000 We're not trying to go to church, all of a sudden Charlie's back on, and it was just like you know, and um, but but he he gave that time so purely and fully to his wife and kids, and Erica absorbed every moment of that.

01:24:16.000 And I uh you know, I told this story yesterday, and I I do want to like clarify something because apparently people took it the wrong way.

01:24:24.000 But the night it happened, she got a call from a very important person, and that very important person, I'm not gonna say who, it maybe isn't who you think, but it's a very important person.

01:24:34.000 But asked, like, I you know, I just have to ask.

01:24:40.000 Like, what do you know?

01:24:42.000 And he wasn't talking about some conspiracy theory.

01:24:44.000 We didn't even they hadn't even got that the shooter at this point.

01:24:48.000 It's a fair question.

01:24:49.000 He was asking, what do you know about Turning Point?

01:24:52.000 What do you know about what Charlie was doing politically?

01:24:54.000 What do you know about the donors?

01:24:56.000 What do you know what do you know?

01:24:58.000 Like, what are we working on?

01:24:59.000 What's our starting point here?

01:25:01.000 And she said back, I know everything.

01:25:05.000 Thank God.

01:25:06.000 Because Charlie would spend they would walk and they would talk, and they they would religiously they would walk.

01:25:12.000 Because Charlie hurt his back, he couldn't run anymore.

01:25:14.000 He used to run like seven to ten miles a day.

01:25:16.000 When I first started working with Charlie, he would just be gone running.

01:25:18.000 And he hurt his back, he couldn't do it.

01:25:20.000 So they would walk together.

01:25:21.000 And if you ever walked with Charlie, the guy could keep a pace.

01:25:24.000 The guy big long legs, you know, and and they would talk and they would lay in bed and they would talk.

01:25:30.000 And he told he she was his vault, and she knows everything.

01:25:35.000 She is the same spirit.

01:25:36.000 So when when that was announced, or I heard that she was taking over, I was just oh I was just elated.

01:25:43.000 It's not an attack on anyone else, by the way, or a reference to any of the internecine battles currently going on, um, which I'm trying to not think about.

01:25:52.000 It's just the the fact, the provable fact that she had the same spirit and the same goals, same mission that he had.

01:25:58.000 That is just true.

01:26:00.000 Just more based.

01:26:02.000 Oh let me, I just want it without you know, whatever, but getting into it, but I just want to affirm that.

01:26:09.000 I just saw that recently, yet again, and uh I'm just so thankful that she's taking over because it's it's a big deal.

01:26:16.000 I saw Trump on Monday, he said I couldn't got elected without Charlie Kirk.

01:26:19.000 And I, you know, he's not prone to say things like that.

01:26:22.000 He meant it.

01:26:22.000 Wow, yeah.

01:26:25.000 JD said the same thing.

01:26:26.000 Yeah, with uh Jesse, and I know JD uh feels that, and you know, it's just been amazing too to see Washington, you know, the power center, the Imperial Capital, is Charlie always used to say.

01:26:38.000 By the way, Charlie hated going to Washington, hated it.

01:26:41.000 He loved being out here in Phoenix, thought it was like our secret weapon.

01:26:44.000 Well, besides you being the secret weapon, it was our secret weapon to be outside of that bubble, and yet somehow all of Washington is coming to him.

01:26:53.000 You know, can I say one thing?

01:26:55.000 I shouldn't even get involved in this, but uh it's a fact, so I want to say it.

01:26:58.000 He loved JD Vance.

01:27:00.000 He loved Donald Trump, of course, often said it, but he he really loved the stuff he would talk about in in private, and some of that would, you know, bubble out.

01:27:06.000 You know, we he loves telling the story of the first time he endorsed him for office.

01:27:11.000 Uh and in case people haven't heard it, it's such a great story where he uh you know, Vance has announced he's running in Ohio for Senate, and it's a very long shot bit at this point.

01:27:20.000 I think he pulled at two or three percent.

01:27:22.000 He comes in, he meets Charlie, he talks to Tyler too, and they come out and they're like, he said everything we believe.

01:27:28.000 Like, we we've got to endorse him.

01:27:29.000 Like, if we're not gonna endorse this guy, what why are we even here?

01:27:31.000 Yeah, exactly.

01:27:32.000 And they're basically like, you know, they can make that commit, and there's a miscommunication because it's a big open senate, you know, it's a big Senate race, and Charlie's gotta call a lot of donors and you know, explain why we're doing this, we're not going for your guy.

01:27:45.000 This isn't a slight on you, you know, manage all the results.

01:27:47.000 The other guy was their guy for some.

01:27:48.000 And instead, there's a miscommunication, and it just goes out like blast turning point as endorsing JD Vance, and it goes out way too early, and he has somebody's like, Well, we all believe it.

01:28:00.000 And he's just like JD Vance is amazing.

01:28:02.000 By the way, that you're part of that story because it was he saw JD on your show and was like he in it at that point he didn't know all the little deep things that he believed, and he just he kept I remember him saying JD's got like something.

01:28:18.000 There's something about JD, he's got that is exactly he's got the goods, and before you explain why, I'm not gonna get involved.

01:28:27.000 But I just say he loved it.

01:28:28.000 He loved JD, he loved J and by the way, JD loved him, and I think you can see that.

01:28:33.000 Do you want to put any a cap on that?

01:28:34.000 I know you have a story to tell.

01:28:35.000 Well, I just I just want to I don't think I can emphasize it enough, but and again, I'm really gonna try because I think the point of Charlie's life was following Jesus.

01:28:44.000 I just want to say that again as someone who knew him well.

01:28:46.000 I think the point of his life was following Jesus.

01:28:48.000 So I really want to help be helpful to that mission and not get distracted with the other stuff.

01:28:54.000 And I have distracted with the other stuff for sure, because I feel strongly about it.

01:28:58.000 But I'm gonna try and stop.

01:29:00.000 But I just want to say, if you want to understand Charlie Kirk, he loved JD Vance and Donald Trump, but he was genuinely close to JD like as a friend, and vice versa, and that's that is just factually true.

01:29:13.000 And I don't want to hurt anybody by going on, but that is that is true.

01:29:17.000 And JD earned everyone.

01:29:18.000 Yes, he did.

01:29:19.000 And he loved the story, and it really meant a lot to him.

01:29:22.000 So we had that event in um It was in June in Detroit last year.

01:29:26.000 In Detroit, the people's convention, we called it.

01:29:28.000 I assume that was like it was pre it was pre-him getting announced as VP, and they were just starting to kind of like float his name out there.

01:29:34.000 Yeah, and which Charlie, of course, very much wanted to do, and you know, he he used all of his political talents to try to promote that.

01:29:41.000 Um and one of those things is yeah, invite him to the convention, and the what he always loved about it was I think it was it was his anniversary either the day before or the day after.

01:29:51.000 And so yeah, no, no, it was the day before because yeah, we wanted him on Saturday night to be sort of the the the final speaker on Saturday night, and he's gonna be.

01:30:01.000 And Charlie would love that.

01:30:02.000 He's like, It's my anniversary.

01:30:03.000 He would say marriage comes.

01:30:06.000 But I will I will commit to getting you getting there on Sunday.

01:30:10.000 And Charlie was like, Great, you could be the final speaker of the event.

01:30:13.000 And that gave him just enough time to get to literally just drive up there, which I believe he did he personally himself drive the car.

01:30:21.000 And he he gets there, and like, you know, we're used to a lot of people having you know entourages.

01:30:26.000 And he just shows up.

01:30:27.000 I think he had one aid with him.

01:30:29.000 Yeah, just walks in and it's just like Will was with him.

01:30:32.000 I'm JD Vance, I'm a speaker.

01:30:34.000 I think like maybe some security guy didn't initially recognize him.

01:30:36.000 No, he was just JD Vance walking by himself backstage.

01:30:40.000 I was like, I I think that's D. Like, you know, he's just kind of like strolling in.

01:30:45.000 And like we found out he drove.

01:30:47.000 He's like, Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:30:48.000 I was just, you know, there's never been a less affected politician.

01:30:50.000 I always promised myself I'm not gonna compliment J.D. Vance, I don't want to hurt him, but there's never been a less affected leader ever.

01:30:57.000 Like, period.

01:30:58.000 I totally agree.

01:30:59.000 I've I've never seen one if there is but yeah, Char Charlie.

01:31:02.000 People would ask Charlie a lot, you know, are you gonna run for president?

01:31:07.000 Are you gonna run for office?

01:31:08.000 Or you know, like, and he would always I you will not find one piece of content anywhere ever, it doesn't exist, where he said, Yeah, you know what, I want to be president someday.

01:31:21.000 He would always say, he would always say, you know, I love what I'm doing, like God's called me here, uh, you know, we're we have more impact here, you know, and and that it was all very true privately.

01:31:34.000 I had that conversation with him, and I wouldn't say he answered it with me, although that maybe there were some other instances where I I I caught an inclination.

01:31:45.000 But what he said was JD's ready, and because JD's running, I don't even have to think about it.

01:31:52.000 And I don't know if that's like I don't know if he said let me say, because JD exists, we're gonna do everything we can.

01:31:59.000 He didn't say that he you know had confirmed or anything, but because JD exists, I don't even have to think about it.

01:32:03.000 And Charlie, you know, was such a champion of JD's political talents and his his future.

01:32:09.000 And if JD does decide to do that, certainly Charlie would cheer him on from the hereafter.

01:32:14.000 But um yeah, Charlie Charlie has a lot of faith in JD Vance.

01:32:18.000 I always loved his his frankness on just topics like that, you know, in the in the 2024 primaries.

01:32:26.000 He would like he would just come out and he's like, Well, I promised Trump that if he ran again in 24, I would support him.

01:32:31.000 So that was that.

01:32:32.000 Like I made a promise.

01:32:33.000 And if JD chooses to do that, then God bless him.

01:32:37.000 And I I would be here to to cheer him on.

01:32:40.000 I'm gonna play one clip and then Tucker, you're gonna take us home.

01:32:43.000 Okay.

01:32:44.000 So play cut two.

01:32:45.000 This is Charlie talking about his lovely wife, Erica.

01:32:48.000 My wife is the best person ever, and she's a patriot, and she's a believer, and we don't want to have to be accountable to God when this life passes.

01:32:55.000 And he asks, Why did you not trust in me and not fight evil?

01:32:59.000 Because we as Christians are called to fight evil.

01:33:01.000 It's one of the less lesser known scriptures, Psalm 9710.

01:33:04.000 For those of you that love God, you must hate evil.

01:33:06.000 Yep.

01:33:06.000 Amen.

01:33:07.000 And again, everyone is called to something different in the body of Christ.

01:33:10.000 Some people are called to heal the sick, some people are called to mend broken marriages, some people are called to do outright hot gospel teaching.

01:33:19.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

01:33:22.000 That's it.

01:33:24.000 Who has that clarity of purpose, you know, at that age?

01:33:28.000 Who it's such a rare gift.

01:33:29.000 It I think it is a gift.

01:33:31.000 It's not detracting from the choices that he made, but like he knew what his purpose on this earth was.

01:33:37.000 He worked tirelessly to fulfill that tirelessly.

01:33:42.000 I can't overstate that as someone with a similar gig.

01:33:45.000 Like, I've never seen a man work harder and with greater self-sacrifice and with greater self-discipline.

01:33:50.000 And it all flowed from his belief that this is not pointless.

01:33:54.000 We are there's a race that we have to run.

01:33:56.000 And he, I mean, he left us in mid-stride.

01:34:00.000 I thought that that night, and I was heartbroken and struggling now to control myself.

01:34:07.000 Excuse me.

01:34:09.000 But I had that image that day.

01:34:13.000 I was on a plane when it happened of him going like that, you know, leaving this earth in that position in mid-stride.

01:34:21.000 And that is as tragic and overwhelming as it is.

01:34:26.000 That is such a gift.

01:34:27.000 Like, may that be the end of my life too in all of our lives to to leave in midst of purpose, uh, in midst of forward motion.

01:34:36.000 You know, very few people get that.

01:34:38.000 And you know, in this case at 31, it's unimaginable.

01:34:40.000 Um, however, that is something that I know that I want, and I think that every person who thinks about it wants that too.

01:34:48.000 And so I'm I'm grateful for that.

01:34:52.000 Well, you know, you have um you have a special place in the turning point family, Tucker.

01:35:00.000 I know you know that.

01:35:01.000 You have you had a special place in Charlie's heart.

01:35:05.000 And I just want to address one thing before we go here.

01:35:07.000 We've got like two, two and a half minutes left.

01:35:10.000 That there was pressure put on Charlie, you know, about you appearing at turning point.

01:35:17.000 Oh, you think?

01:35:18.000 And he's such a scot about it, so he's just like, Oh, they're putting pressure on me.

01:35:23.000 So I've got to I've got to double down on that.

01:35:26.000 He was like, you know, some of the some of the funny text messages that we found since then he goes, Oh, they don't want me to have Tucker.

01:35:31.000 Oh, maybe I'll have him speak twice.

01:35:32.000 You know, and uh and he just loved to me.

01:35:36.000 Yeah, he just loved you, and there was, you know, and and that was what the hardest thing to explain to people that you know, maybe didn't like your views on foreign policy or whatever.

01:35:45.000 Didn't like my views on foreign policy.

01:35:46.000 I'm trying to be diplomatic here, Duggar.

01:35:52.000 Umbrace it.

01:35:53.000 And I and but I just, you know, Charlie, this was the hardest thing to explain is that like, guys, you don't understand.

01:35:59.000 Like Charlie's mission is three steps down.

01:36:02.000 He's try he's keeping a coalition together, he's keeping friends together, he's keeping networks together, he's he's a statesman, and he's not he's not going to knee-jerk and be morally blackmailed by anybody.

01:36:14.000 And if you and if you do it, he will double down.

01:36:17.000 And you saw it in that clip.

01:36:19.000 My mission is to confront evil.

01:36:21.000 Oh, yes.

01:36:21.000 And to proclaim the truth.

01:36:22.000 Wherever it is.

01:36:23.000 Yes.

01:36:24.000 And um, and I would just tell people, listen, you might think one thing, fine.

01:36:31.000 But Charlie and Tucker are deeply, deeply on a very personal level, friends, and Charlie is loyal.

01:36:37.000 Oh, yeah.

01:36:38.000 And if you go down this route, don't be a f don't be surprised when you have Tucker having three speeches on three different nights at Amfest.

01:36:46.000 You know, like w when I was a kid, I drove my in high school, I drove my car into a white pine in Maine, going about 40.

01:36:53.000 And I remember thinking it total the car.

01:36:55.000 Uh and I remember thinking, wow, the treatist doesn't move.

01:36:58.000 It doesn't matter how hard you hit it.

01:37:00.000 And that was Charlie.

01:37:01.000 He was just a towering white pine man.

01:37:03.000 He was just not it didn't matter how hard you hit him.

01:37:05.000 He just wasn't wasn't moving.

01:37:08.000 I there's a few things I respect more than that.

01:37:11.000 Well, Tucker, it's been a pleasure.

01:37:14.000 One of my favorite shows, and I think it was so fitting that you capped off the week.

01:37:18.000 And I know you're going to be speaking at his celebration.

01:37:22.000 About Jesus, not politics, to be clear.

01:37:25.000 And I'm so glad that we could take some time to talk about Jesus, not politics, because that's the whole point.

01:37:31.000 Well, it's funny.

01:37:32.000 When I first started being around you, the way you would talk about faith was much more reticent and reserved.

01:37:40.000 And Charlie has made a convert out of you, and you are proclaiming the truth as well as any preacher I've ever heard.

01:37:47.000 Thank you.

01:37:48.000 May God bless you.

01:37:48.000 God bless you.

01:37:51.000 The reach of your word.

01:37:53.000 Thank you.

01:37:54.000 Thanks so much.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 19, 2025

Tucker Carlson Remembers the Faith of Charlie Kirk

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