In this episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Tucker Carlson sits down with Charlie Kirk, the White House Correspondent for Turning Point USA, to discuss the importance of modernist architecture and the influence of Frank Lloyd Wright on modernist design. Charlie and Tucker talk about the differences between modernist and traditionalist architecture, the impact of the Wright Brothers and their influence on the modernist movement, and what it means to be a modernist in the 21st century. This episode is sponsored by Noble Gold Investments, the official gold sponsor of the show, a company that specializes in gold and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you can protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investing at noblegold.investments.co/thecharliekirkshow and get a signed copy of Tucker's new book, "Turning Point USA: We Will Not Accept the Ideas That Have Destroyed Countries, Destroy Lives, Destroyed Nations, and Destroy Lives: How to Fight for Freedom on Cemeteries Across the Country," written and produced by Charlie Kirk and the Turning PointUSA, Charlie talks about the need for freedom on college campuses across the country, and why it's so important to fight for the ideas that have destroyed countries, lives, and destroy lives. Learn how to protect your money and your freedom by becoming a Member of the Club at members.CharlieKirkShow.co.nz/TheCharlieKirKirk Show, where you can get 20% off your first-ever piece of hardback edition of Tucker Carlson's newest book "Tucker Carlson's "TUCKER'S TUCKER's TALKING PO Box" and receive a signed autographed copy of the book "The White House Guide to Tucker's newest novel, Tucker's Tuckers Guide to America's Most Influential Workbook, "The Most Beautiful Man in the World's Most Beautiful Home." and much more! Learn more about Tucker's latest book, Tucker talks about what it's like to live in Phoenix, Arizona, Arizona's most authentic, authentic and authentic Arizona, and how he's a place where he's not just Arizona's Most Authentic, but authentic, but also authentic, and authentic, he's got it all of it all. The Most Beautiful and Authentic Arizona, the most authentic Arizona. Click here to learn more about him and his love of all things Arizona's Owned and Authentically Arizona, not just Phoenix's Most Realistic Realism.
00:01:10.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
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00:02:25.000Well, I would say almost every city in the West, every city in the West, except San Francisco, is really kind of an offense against architecture.
00:02:31.000So what's your take on Frank Lloyd Wright?
00:03:02.000And if I'm not mistaken, some of the homes in the portion of Florida that I know that you're in actually are Frank Lloyd Wright inspired or look like Frank Lloyd, correct?
00:03:11.000I mean, there's a whole There's a school of architectural design out of Sarasota, Florida in the 60s, which is very much related to what was going on in LA at the time and earlier in the 50s, which is modernist in a sense, but is also kind of rooted in the landscape, makes use of the natural environment around the building, which is the key, I think.
00:03:34.000But just one thing about Frank Lloyd Wright, I really like Spanish Colonial, and one of the things I like about it is that it sort of suits the environment in which it was built.
00:03:44.000So like an adobe home... It configures to the... 100%!
00:03:49.000So if you're building in, you know, 19th century Maine, you're building out of wood, of course, you're building out of pine, because that's the main source of wood there, and you're doing it in a way that They can handle the massive snow load of the winter, they can handle the rain and the cold, et cetera, et cetera.
00:04:09.000It actually serves the people who live in the building.
00:04:12.000And you see that in New Mexico, parts of Arizona, the old architecture works.
00:04:19.000And Frank Lloyd Wright is, I guess what I'm saying is a little bit too theoretical for me.
00:04:24.000Sort of in love with his own theories over and against the practical, and I feel like building Materials and style should be very practical.
00:04:34.000But it's not insignificant, because Frank Lloyd Wright was during that time of the kind of proliferation of modern architecture.
00:04:50.000When all of a sudden philosophical abstractions started to infiltrate our architecture?
00:04:54.000Well, I think a lot of the people who sort of took control of the design Business but also the movement, Mies van der Rohe, Walter Gropius, I mean they hated people and they saw people as widgets.
00:05:09.000to be assembled. It was this weird sort of mixture of the assembly line mentality of the industrial
00:05:15.000age with Marxism, both of which see people as kind of expendable. And so the whole idea of like
00:05:23.000worker housing that we're all in like little... it's a hive and we're all in identical little
00:05:28.000cubes because we're serving the greater good, we're serving the organization.
00:05:37.000I believe in the individual, because God created the individual.
00:05:39.000Each person has a name and a soul, and every hair on his head is known by God.
00:05:43.000So if you come at design with that belief, then you're going to make things that are elevating to the human spirit, that are pleasing to the eye, that keep The occupants warm in the winter and cool in the summer that won't leak, because you care about the people who are living inside the building.
00:06:03.000And I think there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that the people who changed design in the West, beginning in the 30s, but were just accelerated and became the consensus after the war, the war, those people just had no interest in the individual at all.
00:06:31.000And don't have any contact with that at all.
00:06:33.000I mean, I just have no—I don't like modern—I mean, I have a lot of eccentric views, too, that are probably not supportable, but just are more reactions and instincts that are probably pretty eccentric.
00:06:42.000But yeah, we rely too much on the mechanical and the electric.
00:06:48.000And modern building materials are, you know, leaving aside their effect on physical health, which is probably really bad.
00:06:53.000Like, you shouldn't be living in a room full of plastics and drywall, like, obviously.
00:06:56.000Super low ceiling with fluorescent light.
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00:08:09.000I woke up this morning, so we don't use air conditioning at all.
00:09:13.000The design of nature is God's design, so it's the prettiest thing.
00:09:17.000All art that's worth anything mimics the natural design.
00:09:23.000There's never been a painting prettier than what you can see at dawn where you live, if you can see outside, of course.
00:09:30.000And so if you have a movement or then a culture that intentionally elevates the ugliest things, Then you know that you have, you know, it's just an attack on God, obviously.
00:09:41.000You know, and I guess I could go on and on and on on this subject.
00:09:50.000So if something is, and this is not the only society to reach this point.
00:09:55.000There have been quite a few in the last hundred years.
00:09:58.000I don't think you're allowed to mention them anymore.
00:10:01.000But anyway, that intentionally elevate the disgusting And the diseased and the immoral, the amoral or immoral, purposefully immoral, over the self-evidently, you know, beautiful, which is to say clean, orderly, symmetrical.
00:10:42.000You know, a clabbered house in a pine forest, in my opinion, can be every bit as pretty as Notre Dame, or maybe even prettier, actually, because it doesn't have the sort of French tendency to overbuild and make everything, you know, rococo and crazy complicated.
00:11:15.000If you start out sort of trying to do your best, you'll get close enough.
00:11:19.000I'm sure there are a lot of good parenting books.
00:11:22.000I've never read one, but the whole point of parenting is if you really love your children and seek the best from them, you'll make tons of mistakes.
00:11:30.000But you're not going to get too far off course, probably.
00:11:33.000But if you seek to hurt your kids, it's really easy to do that, and a lot of people do.
00:11:39.000For a bunch of different reasons, but design is exactly the same.
00:11:42.000If you seek beauty, you know, you may wind up at a different variety than I prefer, but you're not going to be too far off.
00:11:48.000You're not going to build a glass box.
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00:12:55.000For people that aren't quite there yet in the audience, the design and the architecture reflects the morality of the moment, or the lack thereof, or the cultural landscape.
00:13:05.000And you have a theory that art, literature, architecture went south to the disgusting and ugly after we decided to use the bomb.
00:13:24.000I don't think it's on Wikipedia, therefore it's not true.
00:13:26.000No, I think it's incredibly compelling, though, is that we use the ultimate force of the eradication of life, and all of a sudden we tend to become an uglier society.
00:13:36.000Yeah, and I don't in any way mean to criticize the indiscriminate murder of civilians at all, because I know that that's not allowed.
00:13:44.000I don't want to piss off Jonah Goldberg, okay, by questioning the decision to drop a bomb on Nagasaki, on a Catholic church, on Japan's Christian population.
00:13:54.000And again, I don't have, you know, hard evidence of this, but I've just noticed really in design, in architectural design, that there's a line, pretty bright line, between pre- and post-war design.
00:14:09.000You know, in New York City, you're gonna pay a lot more for a pre-war apartment than a post-war apartment.
00:15:22.000I'm also 55 and can kind of live wherever I want.
00:15:25.000And so, you know, you've got massive advantages in middle age if you are not deeply in debt.
00:15:30.000I actually would argue it's not that expensive to live a little better than most people live, but it's a trade-off for sure.
00:15:36.000And I have more options than most people, so I don't in any way mean to be sitting in judgment of 24-year-olds who live in shared apartments in Midtown or whatever.
00:17:23.000We had last month saving babies with preborn by providing ultrasounds.
00:17:27.000And we're doing again this year what we did last year.
00:17:29.000We're going to stand for life because remaining silent in the face of the most radically pro-death administration is not an option.
00:17:34.000As Sir Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and we're not going to do nothing.
00:17:40.000Your gift to preborn will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice.
00:18:55.000And there may be one for nuclear weapons, but I'm just not familiar with what it is, and I've asked around.
00:19:03.000But it's sort of interesting, because it is the pivotal, it's the most important technological development in, I don't know, I mean maybe ever?
00:19:12.000The capacity to destroy human life on Earth, which we now possess.
00:19:17.000And we've had it for 80 years, so it's interesting that every fifth grader doesn't know the moment that that was invented.
00:19:25.000But, you know, again, I'm much older than a fifth grader and I'm sort of interested and I don't know.
00:19:29.000And I'm sure there's a totally logical explanation and story behind it, but it's just weird that we don't know.
00:19:35.000Anyway, that's a side question, but I do think the power that we possess, which is the power to destroy, is profound, and I think it couldn't help but change people's attitudes about themselves and about their fellow human beings.
00:19:52.000Well, it made them imagine that they were gods, and that's, you know, always the worst thing in a leader is hubris, and they've certainly had it ever since.
00:20:02.000And, you know, its symptoms are very recognizable and consistent through time, but like the belief that you can foresee the future in a way that no person can.
00:20:13.000the total resistance to acknowledging unintended consequences of any decision at all.
00:20:18.000You know, we're going to roll into Iraq.
00:20:19.000I was going to say Iraq is the perfect example.
00:20:40.000I want to ask you about that in a second.
00:20:42.000But there's no social program in Washington.
00:20:43.000If you go and you read You know, the advertisement for any big change to our society, from the 1965 Immigration Act to Social Security in 1933, or you just name any sort of big decision the federal government has made on behalf of the people and you read the ad copy that accompanied its rollout, like this is what it's going to do for you.
00:21:05.000They're just completely wrong, and wrong in ways that should be expected.
00:21:09.000People can't see the future, period, because they're not God.
00:21:12.000They can only sort of muddle along in the half-darkness and do their best.
00:21:16.000And so as soon as you have leaders who imagine that there's a really clear line between today Three years from now, and they can see what it is, you're going to wind up in disaster.
00:21:37.000You want someone who, imperfect as he may be, will make a good faith effort to uplift his people, A. And B, you need someone who understands his limits in doing that.
00:21:50.000And you're not allowed to kill people except in self-defense.
00:21:58.000Let me repeat, you are not allowed to kill people except in self-defense.
00:22:06.000It comes in all these various justifications throughout time, but just to restate, you are not allowed to kill people except in self-defense.
00:22:14.000That's the most basic rule of them all.
00:22:17.000And if you find yourself doing that, you are evil or abetting evil on the side of evil.
00:22:21.000And if you lose that clarity—and, like, people make mistakes all the time.
00:22:24.000And what you think is self-defense is actually an act of aggression or whatever.
00:22:28.000I mean, these are complicated scenarios as they occur, right?
00:22:31.000And you do your best to make the right decision.
00:22:34.000But if you don't go into it with the knowledge that as a human being, you are not in charge of life, you did not create it, and you are not allowed to take it except to preserve your own life—or those are the people you love or the people you're in charge of.
00:22:46.000If you don't know that and say it and repeat it to yourself every single day, you will
00:22:50.000wind up murdering millions and millions of people.
00:22:54.000And that really is the story of the last 100 years.
00:22:57.000And one of the things I object to about the constant focus on the Second World War, there
00:23:01.000are many things I object to about it, but one is it creates the illusion that we've
00:23:06.000defeated these mindsets, that we've defeated this evil, which was metastasizing around
00:23:15.000But the idea that we kind of defeated that and now we're moving on to a sort of whole new level of enlightenment is absurd.
00:23:24.000And that lie allows us to hide from ourselves the truth, which is, just to restate, you are not allowed to kill people except in self-defense.
00:23:32.000And to the extent you do that, you are evil.
00:23:35.000And I think we should say that every single day.
00:23:38.000And we don't, and so we wind up killing a lot of people.