The Charlie Kirk Show - Two Persecuted Pastors with Jack Hibbs and Rob McCoy

00:00:00.000 Thank you for listening to this Podcast 1 production.

00:00:02.000 Now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast 1, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.

00:00:08.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:09.000 Today, we are joined by Pastor Jack Hibbs and Pastor Rob McCoy, two amazing pastors that love our country, love the kingdom of God, and are honestly under huge attack right now and persecution.

00:00:21.000 You can email me, freedom at charliekirk.com, all your questions.

00:00:25.000 Thank you for supporting our program to be advertiser-free on the weekend at charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:30.000 But just as I am doing this podcast, both of these pastors are being threatened with arrest and their entire church being shutting down because they are staying wide open.

00:00:38.000 Email us, freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:42.000 Buckle up.

00:00:42.000 Jack Hibbs, Rob McCoy are here.

00:00:44.000 Here we go.

00:00:46.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:48.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:50.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:53.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:56.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:57.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:58.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:01:00.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:05.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:07.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:16.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:18.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:19.000 Welcome to this special episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:22.000 This is a duo, a combo that is legendary.

00:01:26.000 Oh, boy.

00:01:27.000 Pastor Rob McCoy, Pastor Jack Hibbs, two heroes of mine, heroes for our country, heroes in California.

00:01:36.000 I got to know both of you before all this nonsense in our country started.

00:01:40.000 And these two men have their churches totally open, fighting city government.

00:01:45.000 Rob, you never closed.

00:01:47.000 Well, we did for a week.

00:01:50.000 That too, yeah.

00:01:51.000 And Pastor Jack, you did a small interval, then you guys both opened.

00:01:53.000 And I had to apologize to the church for even doing that.

00:01:56.000 Yeah, I felt bad about it too.

00:01:58.000 And now you guys remain open and defiant against Governor Newsom.

00:02:03.000 Yeah.

00:02:04.000 And how are your churches doing?

00:02:07.000 Sorry, Rob.

00:02:08.000 Well, I would say, especially, Jack, you probably are in the same boat that when we were closed, we didn't know the severity of COVID-19 at the time.

00:02:16.000 We were still processing the data, at least for us.

00:02:18.000 And as soon as we saw that this was a scamdemic, we opened.

00:02:23.000 And the non-essential designation by our governor, that was it.

00:02:26.000 I mean, you make cannabis essential and you make bicycle repair shops and liquor stores essential and then violate our First Amendment.

00:02:33.000 Yeah.

00:02:34.000 So we're doing great.

00:02:34.000 Our church is doing.

00:02:36.000 Through the roof.

00:02:37.000 Bigger than ever.

00:02:38.000 Bigger than ever, tripled.

00:02:40.000 Exactly, same 14,000 people last Sunday.

00:02:42.000 So, and you probably had a 200% increase, right?

00:02:45.000 Well, yeah, we're one-tenth of his church.

00:02:47.000 So you had 14,000, we had 1,400.

00:02:49.000 Listen, it's the amount of conversions, people coming for comfort, people walking in the front door starting to cry because they said it was precious.

00:02:57.000 We're home.

00:02:58.000 And these are people that some of them have never even been here before.

00:03:01.000 And they're saying, we're home because we sense God.

00:03:03.000 One woman said it so perfectly.

00:03:06.000 She is a nurse.

00:03:07.000 Her husband is an LAPD.

00:03:09.000 And she was very emotional.

00:03:11.000 And she said, I said, are you okay?

00:03:13.000 She goes, I'm more than okay.

00:03:14.000 She said, because this is the first taste of normal that we've had in months.

00:03:20.000 And it does my soul and my mind good.

00:03:22.000 Amen.

00:03:23.000 So, yeah.

00:03:24.000 There are pastors that are remaining closed and they are committed to it.

00:03:31.000 And they're saying, this is dividing the body.

00:03:33.000 What do you have to say about that?

00:03:35.000 Jack them around.

00:03:36.000 First, I want to cut those guys a big slice of grace by saying this.

00:03:41.000 Whoever those pastors are, it is possible that they are an elder-run church.

00:03:45.000 Maybe the pastor doesn't have any say.

00:03:47.000 That's true.

00:03:48.000 It's possible.

00:03:49.000 Or they are the head pastor and they are using things like, we can't open up because somebody could get sick.

00:03:56.000 I would say someone is going to get sick if it's cancer, if it's stroke.

00:04:01.000 Listen, we're not going to prevent anything in the sense of people getting sick.

00:04:06.000 People get sick every day.

00:04:07.000 All of a sudden, nobody can get sick and nobody can die.

00:04:10.000 We don't want to do anything to harm people.

00:04:16.000 My argument is this.

00:04:18.000 I'm the pastor of this church.

00:04:21.000 I know how to love our people more than the governor knows how to love our people.

00:04:25.000 I want their welfare better than he does.

00:04:28.000 The problem with his argument is there's no science to his argument.

00:04:32.000 It's changing by the day.

00:04:34.000 And yet we've been meeting for, what, 10 weeks, 11 weeks?

00:04:39.000 And it's just continuing to grow.

00:04:42.000 And we've had no reports of sickness.

00:04:45.000 We ask people to stay home if they're sick.

00:04:48.000 If we say, if you're sick, don't come.

00:04:50.000 But we've given every opportunity, Charlie, you know, you've walked around the campus for people to experience church in all kinds of ways.

00:04:56.000 I know this.

00:04:56.000 I've spoken at both your churches now multiple times.

00:04:59.000 And thank you.

00:04:59.000 You guys are the few pastors in the country that dare to associate yourself with me.

00:05:04.000 So thank you.

00:05:05.000 It's true.

00:05:06.000 A lot of pastors.

00:05:07.000 They just don't know you yet.

00:05:08.000 So you run for the hills.

00:05:08.000 They don't know you.

00:05:10.000 Rob, you offer radio if people want to sit in the parking lot, live stream.

00:05:16.000 Yep.

00:05:16.000 They can, if they want to, I think you have a forum where they can be socially distanced or they can stay at home, obviously.

00:05:23.000 Jack, you have a field if they want to be socially distanced outside the world.

00:05:26.000 Jumbotron right field.

00:05:28.000 So if they want the normal, they can do the normal.

00:05:30.000 If they want to stay at home, they can do that.

00:05:32.000 If they want to be in a parking lot.

00:05:33.000 So there's almost like a menu of options.

00:05:35.000 Absolutely.

00:05:36.000 Same with you, right, Rob?

00:05:37.000 It's called freedom.

00:05:39.000 And what I find so, in my own opinion, frustrating and repulsive on how some of these pastors have handled this, Rob, is these pastors are treating their congregants like infants.

00:05:51.000 Oh, yes.

00:05:52.000 Well said.

00:05:53.000 And saying, we know what's best for you.

00:05:55.000 We are going to shut it all down because you don't know how to make informed choices.

00:05:59.000 What's been your experience with staying open?

00:06:02.000 I think with the pastors that are closed, and I'm going to take the direction that Jack has because love hopes all things.

00:06:11.000 And I would think, especially for some of these pastors, whatever information they're getting that's causing them to make the decision they're making is not correct.

00:06:22.000 When we've had doctors on our live stream, we've had psychologists on our live stream, when we've looked at the data.

00:06:27.000 And what's interesting is anything that's contrary to the narrative set by the governor is immediately censored.

00:06:33.000 And they say, you know, all medical professionals are in agreement.

00:06:36.000 Well, those are the medical professionals that you allow on social media.

00:06:42.000 And then you censor the ones that have a contract.

00:06:44.000 But you look at the data, and this thing has a 99% survival rate with anyone who has contracted it.

00:06:50.000 And just because that we know of, and it's actually higher, but just because cases are going up, hospitalizations and deaths are going down.

00:06:59.000 That's true.

00:07:00.000 This is not worthy.

00:07:01.000 And you don't quarantine the healthy.

00:07:04.000 First time in American history, in American history.

00:07:06.000 So when they tell us that we're not essential, this is an ideological battle.

00:07:10.000 And pastors have to awaken to that.

00:07:12.000 And I don't think they know that, Charlie.

00:07:14.000 I really just want to believe that love hopes all things.

00:07:16.000 They just don't know it.

00:07:17.000 And they need to awaken to it.

00:07:19.000 And they need to step up.

00:07:21.000 Yeah, absolutely true.

00:07:24.000 Charlie and I talked earlier just in our conversations of life beforehand and things where it makes people feel comfortable to say, politicians to say, this is essential.

00:07:35.000 This is non-essential.

00:07:36.000 Of course, you said it.

00:07:37.000 In California, you can't have church and you can't sing out loud.

00:07:40.000 You can't pray out loud, but you can go down the street and have an abortion.

00:07:44.000 But you can burn buildings and march and be, you know, absolutely.

00:07:49.000 I think here's the broader question.

00:07:50.000 You know, we've said church is essential.

00:07:52.000 I mean, is salvation essential?

00:07:55.000 Well, that's why the church is not either.

00:07:56.000 The church is an essential and it's not non-essential.

00:07:59.000 The church is transcendent and can't even be put in this category because of that.

00:08:04.000 And I would add, Jack is not being rebellious, and neither am I.

00:08:08.000 We are being obedient.

00:08:09.000 That's right.

00:08:11.000 We are commanded to not forsake fellowshipping with the saints.

00:08:14.000 That's right.

00:08:15.000 We are commanded towards fellowship.

00:08:17.000 But no, Rob, see, you're a bad guy because you didn't obey Romans 13.

00:08:23.000 You see, that's a good one.

00:08:24.000 I love that you brought that up.

00:08:25.000 That's why I brought it up.

00:08:26.000 You ever heard that one before?

00:08:27.000 You teed it up.

00:08:28.000 Yeah.

00:08:29.000 Okay, let's look at Romans 13.

00:08:30.000 The oracle speaks.

00:08:31.000 Yeah, okay.

00:08:32.000 That you're to obey all positions of authority.

00:08:34.000 They're appointed by God.

00:08:35.000 Full agreement to that.

00:08:36.000 I agree.

00:08:37.000 Absolutely.

00:08:38.000 And that they're ministers of justice to execute wrath on those who do evil.

00:08:42.000 They carry the sword.

00:08:43.000 So they've got authority.

00:08:44.000 And I get that.

00:08:46.000 But they're there for our good.

00:08:48.000 And let's not forget this: the beauty of America, 244 years under this Constitution, the authority in America is found in the first three words of the preamble, we the people.

00:08:57.000 We're the authority.

00:08:58.000 They govern by our consent, and they're constrained by the seven articles of that constitution.

00:09:03.000 And when they don't abide by that, it is our right and our duty to push back.

00:09:09.000 So now, Rob, Jack?

00:09:11.000 So I am obeying Romans 13.

00:09:13.000 And so are you.

00:09:14.000 Some pastors say we never should have dissolved from King George in the first place.

00:09:18.000 Oh, yeah.

00:09:20.000 Well, then go to England.

00:09:23.000 Seriously, go to England.

00:09:24.000 But even those pastors that are doing that are now standing.

00:09:27.000 Well, in order to be philosophically consistent, they should go to Rome because the people from the northern part of England should never have pushed back against Roman aggression.

00:09:37.000 But here's when, in an age in which we're in right now, okay, we're all Bible students. 0.79

00:09:42.000 We're studying the Bible.

00:09:43.000 We see what's happening in our day.

00:09:47.000 When would be, what would be the event that causes a pastor to throw off the yoke of political encroachment and say, now that's the hill I'm going to stand on?

00:09:57.000 So if you can't stand for this little bump in the road, Charlie?

00:10:02.000 No, Jack, I was just going to say that's the best point because every pastor should have to answer, what is your line then?

00:10:08.000 So, I mean, if it's not now, then give us a set of circumstances.

00:10:08.000 Right.

00:10:12.000 Be very specific of what your line is.

00:10:14.000 I have one question for pastors who would state something like that.

00:10:18.000 Should Rosa Parks have gotten to the back of the bus? 0.62

00:10:20.000 Wow.

00:10:22.000 Was Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King wrong in fighting for civil rights?

00:10:28.000 Was the abolition of slavery and pushing, I mean, or Corey Tinboon and her friends?

00:10:32.000 Or to protect Frederick Douglass?

00:10:34.000 Yeah.

00:10:34.000 Or then, hey, then what about Rahab protecting the two spies?

00:10:38.000 Yeah.

00:10:40.000 You can't use it.

00:10:41.000 It just doesn't work that way.

00:10:42.000 That's convenience to stay within the realm.

00:10:45.000 And I understand that there's it, the body of Christ influences government, but we're not dominionism.

00:10:52.000 It's not a theocracy.

00:10:53.000 Oh, goodness, no.

00:10:54.000 And we've been.

00:10:55.000 Tell us what that means.

00:10:55.000 A lot of listeners have never heard of these dominionism in particular.

00:10:59.000 For example, I've been, you know, people have made comments that you use the seven mountains of cultural influence.

00:11:05.000 And I pointed out to the folks who had said that, that you had commented.

00:11:08.000 I said, I'm the one who fed him that.

00:11:11.000 He's not a Dominionist.

00:11:12.000 Speaking of you, Charlie, when I comment on the seven mountains of cultural influence, I'm using it from a psychological perspective.

00:11:20.000 What is Dominion?

00:11:21.000 A Dominionist is this idea that we are ushering in God's kingdom on the earth.

00:11:25.000 And there's a lot of people that hold to that view.

00:11:27.000 And we do not.

00:11:28.000 Why do we not hold to that view?

00:11:30.000 The reason why we don't, and you don't, because I've had that conversation with you, the reason why we don't hold to that view is because we're a pluralistic society.

00:11:38.000 And in this nation of a constitutional republic, especially with Galatians 3, it says that the law is a guardian to point us to Christ and keep us safe until faith comes.

00:11:51.000 In the meantime, We build these laws, these civil laws, to protect mankind because it's the laws of nature, nature's God.

00:11:58.000 But there isn't this one theocracy where we have, people have to come to this realization, this choice.

00:12:04.000 Yep.

00:12:05.000 Listen, patriotism is something that I could argue is found in the scripture.

00:12:09.000 Dominionism is patriotism on steroids.

00:12:13.000 It's illogical.

00:12:14.000 It's where we're going to make either a church or a nation ripe and ready and so good that then Jesus can come back when we make it good.

00:12:26.000 When in reality is the church is the salt and light of a decaying culture.

00:12:32.000 We know from scripture everything is going to decay.

00:12:35.000 But does that mean we quit?

00:12:37.000 No, because there are events in culture like America, like the founding of the United States, or for that matter, the holding back of God's judgment promised against Nineveh. 0.54

00:12:49.000 Why didn't God just smack them down like he said through Jonah? 0.54

00:12:52.000 They repented.

00:12:53.000 And so God reserves the right to pull back.

00:12:56.000 And he did that with Nineveh.

00:12:58.000 40 years later, judgment came.

00:13:00.000 What we do is we are taking the word of God, looking for Jesus any day, but until he comes, we're going to occupy till he comes, says the Bible.

00:13:09.000 And Christ brings the kingdom.

00:13:12.000 We don't create it and then make it where it's a happy world for him to arrive.

00:13:16.000 And faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God.

00:13:18.000 So our primary calling, people think that we're all about politics, but for Jack and I, our primary calling is rightly dividing the word of truth.

00:13:25.000 I said that in the car to you earlier.

00:13:26.000 Yeah.

00:13:27.000 Yeah, you did.

00:13:27.000 We always teach the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter book.

00:13:30.000 This is what Charlie said in the car.

00:13:32.000 If we, listen, if we pastors do not understand the workings and the politics of the nation that he has placed us in, then we are ripe to lose the freedoms to preach the gospel.

00:13:45.000 A perfect example of that. 0.91

00:13:47.000 Black Lives Matter.

00:13:49.000 They have zeal.

00:13:50.000 Nobody wants racism.

00:13:52.000 Nobody wants prejudice in their church.

00:13:54.000 We endeavor to keep the union spirit in the bond of peace.

00:13:57.000 If anyone is being abused because of the content of the melanin of their skin, and that exists, we want that ended.

00:14:04.000 That's right, that's wrong. 0.93

00:14:06.000 But to think that you're somehow contributing to the end of that prejudice and that racism by a black tile or sending money into Black Lives Matter, zeal without knowledge is foolishness. 0.92

00:14:16.000 You need to study to realize Black Lives Matter is a Marxist organization. 0.80

00:14:20.000 It's Black Lives Matter Incorporated in the world.

00:14:22.000 We call it BLM because we never want to say something negative about a statement that is obsessively weak.

00:14:28.000 I go out of my way in the middle.

00:14:30.000 And by the way, ever since we said it, their favorability has gone down 20 points.

00:14:33.000 Finish Rob.

00:14:34.000 Yeah, we believe Black Lives Matter. 0.97

00:14:36.000 All Black Lives Matter.

00:14:37.000 And as a matter of fact, you take the Black American population at 13%, divide that in half, male and female, 6.5%, take it down to childbearing years for black females. 0.90

00:14:49.000 That's conservatively 4%.

00:14:50.000 4% of the population is responsible for 40% of the abortions. 0.79

00:14:55.000 Yet Planned Parenthood supports BLM Inc. and BLM Inc. supports Planned Parenthood and it's a holocaust on the black community. 0.72

00:15:02.000 There needs to be outrage. 0.78

00:15:03.000 And the pastors that are putting up those black tiles, thinking that they're usaging their guilt, they need to stand in opposition to abortion.

00:15:12.000 Rob, I said something to the same effect a couple of weeks ago. 0.91

00:15:16.000 I went out into the courtyard to greet people after service, and there was a beeline of black individuals coming to me, hugging me, kissing me, no social distancing at all to say to me, thank you for what you said today about BLM Incorporated, because they have pimped, listen, they have pimped my ethnicity and they are destroying my culture. 0.98

00:15:42.000 They're qualified to say that. 0.94

00:15:44.000 To be honest with you, I have zero respect for a white guy telling me about BLM Incorporated or true Black Lives Matter, but they're not talking about the real truth about Black Lives Matter. 0.68

00:16:00.000 They want to talk about BLM Incorporated, and they're completely not qualified to talk about it. 0.95

00:16:05.000 And that's where we as pastors, we can have zeal, but without knowledge, it's foolishness.

00:16:10.000 We've got to study to know these things.

00:16:12.000 And the scripture says, whatever things are true, I'm just about the gospel.

00:16:16.000 I just preach the word.

00:16:17.000 You need to know the culture around you.

00:16:19.000 You need to understand these things.

00:16:21.000 I could argue, Rob, that just preaching the gospel is not enough because you need to endorse your people after you have preached the gospel to now go do the gospel.

00:16:35.000 It's not good to be a student and a hearer only.

00:16:38.000 I think the Bible has something to say about that.

00:16:40.000 I'm going to jump on that one.

00:16:42.000 So I get this all the time.

00:16:44.000 I know you do too.

00:16:46.000 That we're, hey, I don't do politics because I'm all about the gospel, as though somehow you and I aren't.

00:16:51.000 Yeah, you're not.

00:16:53.000 And when we say the gospel, if I were to boil it down and ask them that, they would quote Ephesians 2.

00:16:58.000 You're saved by grace through faith.

00:16:59.000 It's a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.

00:17:02.000 And then it goes, if you believe in your heart, confess with your tongue.

00:17:04.000 Jesus says, Lord, you will be saved.

00:17:05.000 The glory of the Father.

00:17:06.000 If that's you, raise your hand.

00:17:07.000 God bless you.

00:17:08.000 And if you profess your, oh, God bless you, I see your hand.

00:17:08.000 I see your hand.

00:17:10.000 We throw the net out.

00:17:10.000 And we do that.

00:17:11.000 Amen?

00:17:12.000 I'm ending some elements that I would preach.

00:17:12.000 Okay.

00:17:17.000 I'm limited on time.

00:17:17.000 But we're there.

00:17:18.000 You guys work in the same book.

00:17:20.000 Yeah.

00:17:21.000 And we recognize that we're sinners and we need to be, so we're saved by grace through faith.

00:17:25.000 And we respond to that.

00:17:26.000 Okay.

00:17:28.000 Salvation by grace didn't happen in Ephesians 2.

00:17:31.000 It's back in Genesis 15 where Abraham believed God and was accredited to him as righteousness.

00:17:36.000 So we've got it in both places.

00:17:37.000 So the question is, why did God give the law 430 years later?

00:17:42.000 That's right.

00:17:43.000 Because three to five million Jews were in slavery.

00:17:46.000 Liberty is not man's idea.

00:17:47.000 It's God's idea.

00:17:48.000 They cried out to God.

00:17:49.000 He sent a deliverer.

00:17:50.000 Ten plagues.

00:17:51.000 Red Sea's parted.

00:17:53.000 Their food provided everyday water.

00:17:55.000 Their clothes don't wear out.

00:17:56.000 Moses goes up on Mount Sinai, gets a downloaded moral app, five commandments relationship to God, five commandments relationship with each other, comes down.

00:18:03.000 The entire community is in debauchery.

00:18:06.000 He puts the moral law in the center of the community.

00:18:09.000 And for 40 years, they live without a police force or a standing army.

00:18:13.000 That is why God brought the law.

00:18:15.000 And then Paul points it out in Galatians 3 and then in 5.

00:18:19.000 And we stand fast, therefore, in the liberty for which Christ has set us free.

00:18:23.000 The gospel, the Lord says not to make converts, but disciples.

00:18:27.000 Make disciples.

00:18:28.000 And disciples change the world.

00:18:30.000 But you just, Charlie, this is your show, right?

00:18:34.000 I just work here.

00:18:37.000 Rob hit the nail on the head regarding what is church these days.

00:18:41.000 Just because we lead somebody to Christ doesn't mean that we're making any headway.

00:18:46.000 Because number one, we could bring a baby into the world and not feed the baby and starve the baby.

00:18:51.000 Salvation is one step.

00:18:53.000 It's the first step to the discipleship process, which is the rest of your life.

00:18:58.000 You're saved in an instant, but the rest of your life, you walk with Jesus.

00:19:01.000 And let me tell you what ends up happening.

00:19:03.000 I grew up in suburbs of Chicago, went to some of the largest churches on the planet, went to a Christian school fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, then went to a public school. 0.68

00:19:12.000 And so I'm very familiar with cattle call Christianity is what I kind of call it, where they do the cattle call, every couple of weeks come forward, all this.

00:19:20.000 What ends up happening, and I've tracked these people throughout the years, some of them I know that went and did that, is that there is a questioning process that happens and sets in about four to six weeks after the cattle call conversion, right? 0.85

00:19:32.000 So they come, they do the thing on Easter or Christmas or whenever they do the big deal, they all of a sudden start listening to K-Love. 0.70

00:19:38.000 They read the Bible in the morning.

00:19:38.000 They get really excited.

00:19:40.000 They tell all their friends about it, right?

00:19:41.000 They start wearing Christian t-shirts.

00:19:43.000 And then something happens, a friend interaction, something less than desirable, suffering comes across, or inevitably, a societal question comes across their radar, which is the one that is probably.

00:19:54.000 They go to college.

00:19:56.000 They go to college or whatever it might be.

00:19:57.000 There's all the above.

00:19:57.000 But it might not even be a young person.

00:19:59.000 It could be someone in their 50s or 60s.

00:20:00.000 And they go seek out their pastor.

00:20:01.000 And they go to their pastor and they say, hey, look, Palatine High School in suburbs of Chicago, this is a true story.

00:20:09.000 There's a boy who thinks he's a girl and he's suing to be able to go into the girls' locker room.

00:20:14.000 And I did the whole cattle call thing.

00:20:17.000 Like, I love Christ now.

00:20:18.000 I listen to K-Love, and I know all the lyrics, like all of them, you know, the goodness of God and everything, right?

00:20:25.000 Is it okay if the boy goes into the girl's locker room?

00:20:28.000 Because is that Christ-like?

00:20:29.000 Because I want to be loving and forgiving.

00:20:30.000 Real questions, by the way.

00:20:31.000 Legitimate questions.

00:20:32.000 And you know what the pastor said in my local church?

00:20:35.000 We don't get involved in stuff like that.

00:20:37.000 Let's pray on it.

00:20:38.000 That's so people get answered.

00:20:39.000 And so, but here's what ends up happening, though.

00:20:40.000 Is that person that's asking the question says, okay, all right.

00:20:44.000 Then they go back and they kind of think about it and they pray about it.

00:20:47.000 Within months, they'll disconnect.

00:20:48.000 That's right.

00:20:49.000 They will.

00:20:49.000 Because all of a sudden, the tough things of which church and the Bible are supposed to be able to answer, they have no interest in engaging in that.

00:20:58.000 It's the opposite of Galatians 3.

00:21:00.000 So Galatians 3 is a truth, but the inverse is also true.

00:21:03.000 Where it's at law is a school teacher to Christ, but the lack of any sort of interpretation of things that make sense in a very chaotic world, people will disengage from Christ.

00:21:11.000 So it's also, I think, it can retract you away from Christ.

00:21:14.000 Not only do I believe what you just said is true, but Rob, we've got Peter telling us that we should be able to give an answer to every man.

00:21:21.000 Every man.

00:21:22.000 So now I may be wrong about what I'm about to say, but don't correct me because I believe it. 0.94

00:21:27.000 If the Bible says that we ought to be able to give an answer, that sounds like my truth, some sort of postmodernist French garbage. 0.97

00:21:33.000 Exactly. 1.00

00:21:34.000 So watch this.

00:21:35.000 If the Bible says that we should be able to give an answer to every man who asks us, if we believe that this doctrine of predestination is based upon God's foreknowledge, then God can't learn anything.

00:21:49.000 Nothing's going to happen without his knowledge.

00:21:53.000 Having said that, I believe from scripture that what you just said is so true.

00:21:59.000 We're the ones that are to give the answers to people.

00:22:03.000 If we don't know the answer, we should find it because God's provided the answer.

00:22:08.000 I believe in some way that this is kind of rigged.

00:22:13.000 I don't mean in the sense of a negative way.

00:22:16.000 But if somebody calls and asks a question and I don't know the answer, bad on me, because the Bible has the answer.

00:22:25.000 Well, especially.

00:22:26.000 Every issue of life, the Bible has the answer.

00:22:28.000 And especially.

00:22:28.000 Amen.

00:22:29.000 That makes sense.

00:22:30.000 And the one piece of life that can be like, I completely, I agree with all that.

00:22:30.000 Especially.

00:22:34.000 The one piece of life that could be very turbulent, very uncomfortable, very heated, very emotive, sometimes pathological is politics and governance.

00:22:42.000 It's understandable because everyone thinks they're right and everyone thinks that they want to go to the right direction.

00:22:48.000 And so the church has disengaged because they're like, well, that's too controversial.

00:22:53.000 It never made sense to me because I went to some of these mega churches growing up and they would have this fire and brimstone speech about how hell's a real place and people are screaming and dying.

00:23:02.000 That's really intense, but you won't talk about it.

00:23:06.000 Can we talk about abortion?

00:23:07.000 Do they really believe?

00:23:09.000 They're totally unafraid to tell people they're going to burn forever, but they're perfectly confident.

00:23:13.000 One final point on this, though, is that people want clarity in all things.

00:23:17.000 And Christ brings forth clarity, right?

00:23:18.000 Because truth brings clarity.

00:23:20.000 Truth in your direction, truth in your choices.

00:23:22.000 And a confused society is one that will not embrace Christ.

00:23:26.000 Confusion is a tool of Satan.

00:23:28.000 It's one of his most effective tools is confusion, gender confusion, societal confusion, cultural confusion.

00:23:33.000 He wrote the book. 0.62

00:23:34.000 Historical confusion, right?

00:23:34.000 Right.

00:23:37.000 But Christ is clarity because Christ is truth.

00:23:40.000 Christ is love.

00:23:41.000 The point is that when people do not have clarity on something that affects them materially, sociologically, psychologically, and philosophically, and we are told that's a no-go zone, they're like, wait a second, but I don't get it.

00:23:54.000 There's all these yard signs in my neighborhood.

00:23:56.000 You're trying to tell me the church doesn't have anything to say about this?

00:23:59.000 Like, you're trying to tell me that I'm supposed to have no clarity when it comes to why my property tax bill keeps on going up every single year, so I have to sacrifice my tithe.

00:24:07.000 My daughter has to shower with a man, and you're trying to tell me that the church has no clarity on you?

00:24:13.000 Didn't Paul tell Rob McCoy that the pillar in the ground of all truth is found where?

00:24:18.000 In the church, the church.

00:24:23.000 I'm going to use this: that we're both Calvary Chapel pastors.

00:24:28.000 Calvary Chapel, depending on whose history you read, started in 1968.

00:24:33.000 Chuck breaks away from the Four Square Church.

00:24:36.000 1968, California.

00:24:38.000 Reagan's governor.

00:24:39.000 We have the fifth largest GDP on the face of the earth.

00:24:42.000 It's the state of the future.

00:24:43.000 Air Force is setting up here.

00:24:44.000 It's a space program.

00:24:46.000 I mean, it's unbelievable.

00:24:46.000 Everything's being invented.

00:24:48.000 You and I were born here.

00:24:49.000 Yep.

00:24:50.000 My father, my grandfather, military.

00:24:52.000 It's the state.

00:24:54.000 Chuck comes in in 68.

00:24:55.000 Now, what happened in 68?

00:24:56.000 Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was shot.

00:24:59.000 Bobby Kennedy was shot.

00:25:01.000 John F. Kennedy was shot in 63. 0.98

00:25:03.000 We would have the Meeli Massacre.

00:25:05.000 The following year, we'd have the Kent State shootings.

00:25:08.000 We have Marxism infiltrating the nation.

00:25:11.000 There's political turmoil.

00:25:12.000 All of the people these young people had put their hopes and dreams on have been assassinated.

00:25:17.000 And the nation's in a meltdown.

00:25:18.000 And my father had had three tours of Vietnam.

00:25:20.000 I remember him coming through Lindbergh Field getting spit on.

00:25:22.000 I remember being at the Washington Monument as they're throwing stuff at us with all the hippie movement.

00:25:27.000 And Chuck comes out in 68 and he sees all these disenfranchised young people as the church is imploding.

00:25:33.000 People are checking into Western religions and trying to find themselves with drugs and everything.

00:25:39.000 And so in the course of this, Chuck figures, I'm just going to avoid politics.

00:25:44.000 I'm just going to teach the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book, because faith comes from hearing, hearing from the word of God, and his word doesn't return void.

00:25:50.000 A good approach.

00:25:52.000 And at that time, it makes, I totally get it.

00:25:55.000 And none of those hippies would have come in had it been political.

00:25:55.000 Totally get it.

00:26:00.000 And he gives them a systematic study of the scriptures, 66 books.

00:26:03.000 And by the time he left this earth, he had talked through the entirety of the Bible many, times.

00:26:11.000 From that simple approach, Calvary Chapel experiences 10,000% growth.

00:26:17.000 South of Van Nuys, which is just about where I am, south of Ann Euys, there's 350 Calvary Chapels.

00:26:22.000 It's Calvary Chapel sandbox.

00:26:24.000 And there's 1,800 plus or minus around the world.

00:26:28.000 We've got the Harvest Crusades with Greg Laurie before he decided to leave the Calvary's, but still affiliated.

00:26:34.000 We've had somebody loves you with Greg with Rawl Rees.

00:26:38.000 Evangelism.

00:26:39.000 We're preacher, premillennial.

00:26:40.000 The house is on fire.

00:26:41.000 We've got to get the kids out. 1.00

00:26:42.000 And they're coming to Christ in droves.

00:26:45.000 But Chuck avoids politics.

00:26:48.000 And all of us do.

00:26:50.000 You and I know, but everyone else.

00:26:53.000 But here we are, what, 52 years into this movement?

00:26:58.000 And how is the 10,000% conversion, and that's conversion growth, not transfer growth?

00:27:03.000 How has that 10,000% growth affected the state?

00:27:07.000 We're no longer the fifth largest GDP.

00:27:08.000 We're the sixth.

00:27:09.000 We have the highest gas tax, sales tax, income tax, corporate tax.

00:27:12.000 We lead the nation in poverty, homelessness.

00:27:14.000 We're the pornography of filming capital.

00:27:16.000 Filming Capital of the World.

00:27:17.000 Here's the kicker. 1.00

00:27:18.000 Authors of No Fault Divorce, Transgender Bathroom Bills. 0.82

00:27:21.000 And the biggest of all, we've aborted more children in the state of California than the entire population of Canada. 0.77

00:27:27.000 Where's the power of the gospel?

00:27:28.000 That's right.

00:27:29.000 We don't do politics.

00:27:30.000 No, we don't do politics.

00:27:31.000 So the gospel died at home.

00:27:33.000 But Aristotle said the highest form of community is politics because it's morality and sociability.

00:27:37.000 And God pointed out in the Noahic Covenant.

00:27:40.000 How do we get along?

00:27:41.000 Well, and the Bible speaks to everything.

00:27:45.000 Rob, what you just said, we know this.

00:27:48.000 It's fundamental.

00:27:48.000 It's Sunday school stuff.

00:27:49.000 Let your lights look this little light of mine.

00:27:52.000 I'm going to let it shine.

00:27:53.000 Oh, no, no, no, you're not.

00:27:55.000 You're only going to shine it on Sunday, and you might shine it on midweek service, but you don't shine it on Monday.

00:28:01.000 You don't shine it at work.

00:28:03.000 And that's the problem.

00:28:04.000 Where did Jesus say, excuse me, don't shine your light over there?

00:28:10.000 No.

00:28:11.000 It's everywhere, and we have dropped the ball on everywhere shining the light.

00:28:15.000 And then Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount that you're the salt of the earth.

00:28:19.000 If salt loses its flavor, it's thrown out, trampled underfoot, good for nothing.

00:28:23.000 Any Roman soldier hearing the Sermon on the Mount, which we get the word salary, sal, Saul, you're worth your weight and salt.

00:28:30.000 They knew it was a currency.

00:28:32.000 If you don't know the currency in each of these areas, you're going to be trampled underfoot.

00:28:37.000 As a pastor, the currency for us in the mountain of religion is, or the salary of the currency is truth.

00:28:45.000 That's right.

00:28:46.000 In politics, which pastors don't understand, but I do because I've run four times and won three races, so I'm batting 750 I can make in the major leagues.

00:28:55.000 The currency in politics is one thing: winning elections.

00:29:00.000 You don't move the needle without winning an election.

00:29:02.000 And if you look at me and say, I can't vote for someone three times married, twice divorced, that's moral pietism. 0.97

00:29:09.000 And I look at you and I say, fine, but you're irrelevant to me as a politician.

00:29:13.000 You're irrelevant.

00:29:14.000 We're not voting for pastor in chief, but commander in chief. 0.99

00:29:18.000 Well, I can't vote for that immoral man.

00:29:19.000 And I say, okay, then take Samson out of the hall of faith or David.

00:29:23.000 Yeah, I can't. 0.90

00:29:24.000 Well, I would say Samson.

00:29:25.000 I can't teach him in Sunday school.

00:29:27.000 I can't find anything really moral about Samson. 0.96

00:29:29.000 He's in a prostitute's bed all night and the Spirit of the Lord comes upon him. 0.98

00:29:32.000 That's like mind-blowing. 0.99

00:29:33.000 First words out of his mouth was, find me that woman.

00:29:36.000 He's with a Nazarite vow, homeschooled and one of only two, only one of two unborn children prophesied to deliver God's people, Jesus and him. 0.68

00:29:45.000 We fail to communicate to Christians that we're not voting for a president. 0.81

00:29:51.000 I think that's a very deceiving way to look at it. 0.76

00:29:55.000 Instead, because president feels very autocratic, right?

00:30:00.000 We're voting for a government.

00:30:02.000 We're voting for a movement.

00:30:03.000 We're voting for a philosophy.

00:30:05.000 An ideology.

00:30:06.000 An ideology, especially now, more so than ever.

00:30:08.000 It matters far less about the human being that occupies it and much more about the millions of micro-decisions that go into either stabilizing or deconstructing an entire civilization.

00:30:19.000 And so, and I think this is President Trump's pathway to victory, is actually articulating this, is that he is nothing more than a vessel for people-centered government.

00:30:29.000 At that, you know, you might not like my tweets, you might not like all this stuff.

00:30:33.000 Well, get over that, okay?

00:30:34.000 Because I'm a bodyguard for civil society.

00:30:37.000 And in order for them to get to me, I'm going to guard the door.

00:30:40.000 I'm the bouncer, if you will.

00:30:42.000 And I'm going to spit and I'm going to say things I shouldn't say, but I am the size of a doorframe and I can fight and they don't want to come after me.

00:30:50.000 And I'm going to keep you safe and stable and protect what is righteous and good.

00:30:55.000 I think that's a much better way to communicate it because some people say, well, I don't like it. 0.74

00:30:59.000 Well, first of all, she's like, I, for one, I really, really don't like the moral kind of judging game from Christians. 0.66

00:31:08.000 And I talked to you about this, and I think it's the worst extrapolation of kind of the parts of Calvinism, to be honest with you. 0.73

00:31:15.000 We're like, I'm elect and you're not elect, and I'm so much better than you are.

00:31:19.000 I think it's a misapplication.

00:31:20.000 I grew up around those circles.

00:31:22.000 And it drives me.

00:31:22.000 I did.

00:31:23.000 It drives home.

00:31:24.000 That's a whole other broadcast.

00:31:25.000 I know it is.

00:31:26.000 Come back.

00:31:27.000 I got it.

00:31:28.000 But I'm saying that there's a point to how we communicate.

00:31:30.000 Yeah.

00:31:31.000 Well, here's the thing, too. 0.99

00:31:33.000 So For the Christian who doesn't engage the culture and vote and get involved, what's it going to take to get them engaged? 0.94

00:31:42.000 Is it when their child is messed up by the strip joint, the pornography store down the street? 0.51

00:31:50.000 Is that what wakes them up?

00:31:51.000 What will wake them up where they put things in compartments?

00:31:56.000 I'm not going to get involved in that.

00:31:58.000 And I honestly want to know why do you think that's a good idea?

00:32:03.000 Well, I just want to, is it because you might get dirty?

00:32:06.000 You might get tainted?

00:32:07.000 Is Christianity so fragile that it can no longer engage the world around it?

00:32:12.000 Is it so that weak?

00:32:15.000 Look, maybe for some churches, it has been communicated that, yes, in fact, it is that weak.

00:32:21.000 If you're a pastor and you got to do a book report once a week, and the only thing you have to do is throw the net out to have people raise their hand, that's a lot easier than having to soil yourself by getting involved in the school board and the city council, even though the scripture says, pray for kings and those in authority that we would live quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and reverence.

00:32:42.000 And you ask those pastors, and that's a pastoral epistle, you ask them, can you name your five school board members and your five city council members that you pray for by name and the issues they're dealing with that allow your community, your followers, to live quiet and peaceful lives in all godliness and reverence.

00:32:56.000 They don't know the names, but it's too hard to get involved.

00:33:01.000 And it's a lot easier just to collect the tithe and have people raise their hand and then feel good that you've been forgiven of your sins, cast as far as East is from the West to be remembered no more, which is precious.

00:33:12.000 But, you know, you were saying these children are being birthed, but not raised.

00:33:18.000 And when an evangelist comes into town and you were talking about the ROI, the return on investment, you put on this enormous program, outreach evangelistic program in a stadium, people come forward and you follow up after a year, a very small percentage of them.

00:33:35.000 And I've done this on many occasions in our church.

00:33:37.000 I say, how many of you came to Christ in a crusade outreach type of event?

00:33:44.000 Handful, raise your hand.

00:33:45.000 How many of you came to Christ because someone personally shared with you and walked you through it and the enormity of the room that raises their hand?

00:33:52.000 That's not to dismiss what folks do that are evangelists.

00:33:55.000 No, of course not.

00:33:56.000 Well, Rob, at least this is true in my family.

00:33:58.000 I'm going to get in trouble for that.

00:33:59.000 Charlie, Rob, for my family, the greatest evangelist has been cancer in my family.

00:34:06.000 Again, evangelism, we're commanded to do it, and it's one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

00:34:10.000 We don't take anything away from that.

00:34:12.000 But what we need to realize also is God uses so many different things.

00:34:16.000 And the bottom line is that a lot of people come to Christ.

00:34:20.000 You talk about those who raise their hands and those you talk to.

00:34:23.000 The people I talk to by far have come to Christ because of crises.

00:34:29.000 There was some crisis of faith in their life.

00:34:31.000 Either they didn't have any or they needed some and they came searching.

00:34:37.000 I got to ask you this because your 14,000 were at 1,400.

00:34:41.000 And it's going to equate on both ends.

00:34:46.000 Crisis.

00:34:48.000 You know who's coming to my church now?

00:34:50.000 People who would never darken the doors of a church because they're watching their country implode and they're in crisis.

00:34:55.000 And they have lost their liberty and they want to know its source and they want to know what to do.

00:34:59.000 That's right.

00:35:00.000 That's evangelism.

00:35:02.000 That's absolutely right on.

00:35:03.000 And we have answers and hope to prove that is that we've needed a bigger net on Sundays because of that truth.

00:35:09.000 Yeah.

00:35:10.000 And by the way, the people coming forward, I could not engineer this. 0.99

00:35:14.000 Where in a church, if you could have the perfect world where this, so many of this ethnic group come forward, old and young, and this ethnic group, old and young, and this old and young, and poor and rich. 0.99

00:35:26.000 Across the board. 1.00

00:35:28.000 Exactly.

00:35:30.000 You couldn't have asked for this.

00:35:31.000 And that's exactly what's happening.

00:35:33.000 Perfect mix.

00:35:34.000 Why?

00:35:35.000 God is moving.

00:35:36.000 It's an awakening across the country.

00:35:37.000 It is awakening.

00:35:38.000 And the tragedy is some of our pastors think if they remain silent, they think that they're going to offend someone.

00:35:45.000 And Jesus said, I didn't come to bring peace, but a sword.

00:35:48.000 We're to contend against this evil that is enslaving our people.

00:35:53.000 It's still true, Rob.

00:35:54.000 He said that those, when it comes to accepting Christ and then walking on with Christ, Jesus said that there will be mother against daughter and father against son because of that very reason.

00:36:07.000 Because one wants truth, one doesn't.

00:36:09.000 And so you have that reality.

00:36:11.000 But you're exactly correct.

00:36:12.000 We're watching people come.

00:36:14.000 They're in the midst of a crisis.

00:36:16.000 And I do believe if pastors would open up, the fishing is fantastic.

00:36:24.000 The weather is amazing. 0.96

00:36:25.000 See, Jack, are you nuts?

00:36:26.000 It's in the middle of COVID. 0.99

00:36:27.000 You know what?

00:36:28.000 It's never been a better time in 30 years of ministry.

00:36:30.000 Why?

00:36:31.000 We're open.

00:36:32.000 You know who the greatest evangelists are for liberty that are now darkening the doors of the church?

00:36:38.000 They would be considered left of center.

00:36:42.000 They're skaters and surfers because their beaches have been closed and their skateboards have been filled with sand.

00:36:47.000 And they're like, wait a minute.

00:36:49.000 What in the world?

00:36:50.000 Once I was able to do this, now I can't.

00:36:51.000 And that guy's telling me why.

00:36:53.000 And I don't know a single person who's contracted COVID or died of it.

00:36:56.000 And my entire joy has been taken.

00:37:00.000 And now they're coming going, what do we do?

00:37:02.000 And some of the greatest proponents for this movement contending with the governor are these business owners that started coming to the church.

00:37:09.000 And they're saying with these open California rallies that they've asked me to come and speak at, they say, will you open in prayer?

00:37:16.000 And they ask you to give an entire opening teaching on what liberty is from the scriptures.

00:37:21.000 And they're hungry.

00:37:23.000 They welcome you.

00:37:24.000 I don't even have to ask.

00:37:25.000 I don't remember when it was.

00:37:27.000 Maybe you do because you're younger and you have a memory.

00:37:29.000 But at some point in time, I had asked Charlie, hey, we need to really do something in California.

00:37:34.000 We can shake it up.

00:37:34.000 We can do this.

00:37:36.000 And I think people like Candace Owen and others, Prager's in, he said they would be up.

00:37:41.000 Imagine if we just popped up somewhere.

00:37:44.000 People are dying for direction.

00:37:48.000 And someone's going to get to them.

00:37:49.000 It's either going to be the agenda of Hollywood or it's going to be Newsom's team.

00:37:53.000 Someone's going to get them.

00:37:55.000 And we need to get them.

00:37:56.000 I do believe California is redeemable because I'm still breathing.

00:38:00.000 One of the things the church has gotten so incredibly wrong and I think misstepped is I was told that politics will drive people away from the church.

00:38:09.000 And what I found with our podcast and through Turning Point and what we're doing is we talk about a moral worldview.

00:38:17.000 We have organized thinking.

00:38:18.000 We have answers to complex problems.

00:38:20.000 And people want to know the source.

00:38:22.000 And we're actually bringing people.

00:38:23.000 It's the Galatians 3 model that we talk about.

00:38:26.000 And everyone has a different way of coming to Christ.

00:38:28.000 But there are actually millions and millions of people out there that look at a chaotic world and a broken world.

00:38:35.000 And then you might say something that makes a lot of sense governmentally or philosophically.

00:38:39.000 And they say, well, you seem like you got your act together.

00:38:42.000 What else do you believe?

00:38:43.000 Or where does that come from?

00:38:44.000 And the church is missing one of the greatest evangelistic opportunities.

00:38:49.000 There right now are probably 15 to 20 million Americans that would be saved by Christ if the church talked about politics.

00:38:56.000 Exactly.

00:38:57.000 So there are 15 to 20 million souls that may or may not come to Christ right now in America because the way they were raised and the culture they're in, just the typical evangelistic music, big lights, all that, it doesn't, everyone is made different by God.

00:39:14.000 Everyone has different interests.

00:39:15.000 And like there are people out there, I communicate with them.

00:39:18.000 They consider themselves to be hyper-rational, right?

00:39:20.000 They consider, I only believe in things that work.

00:39:23.000 And the apologetics movement, Lee Strobel, has done great work with them.

00:39:27.000 I understood.

00:39:28.000 But however, there's also people that they look a lot more in day-to-day life.

00:39:33.000 Show me something that works.

00:39:35.000 Show me something that I can actually make sense with in my own life. 0.99

00:39:39.000 And when I go to a college campus, I say, well, there's only two genders. 1.00

00:39:42.000 That's right. 0.86

00:39:43.000 And some people mind and all that.

00:39:44.000 And some people love it.

00:39:45.000 And some people say, wow, I guess you're right.

00:39:46.000 I've never heard that.

00:39:47.000 It's so deep.

00:39:48.000 I know, exactly, right?

00:39:49.000 Where did you come up with that? 1.00

00:39:51.000 Two genders? 1.00

00:39:51.000 Oh, my God. 1.00

00:39:53.000 I never thought of that.

00:39:54.000 And the enemy wants to keep us in the four walls of the church.

00:39:57.000 They don't want us to have an influence in the universities.

00:40:01.000 And it's to the point where we just allow them to push and whittle us down until we're just here and we're arguing over an ever-decreasing piece of the pie.

00:40:11.000 And God says, no, get out there.

00:40:14.000 Contend for truth.

00:40:15.000 If you were Satan himself and you looked at the landscape of this world, what threatens you if you're Satan?

00:40:23.000 Is it politics?

00:40:24.000 I think Satan's pretty terrified of politics, falling into the wrong hands.

00:40:28.000 The good hands.

00:40:28.000 I'm going to drop on that.

00:40:29.000 Is it media?

00:40:30.000 He's got that.

00:40:33.000 He's not threatened by the church.

00:40:35.000 And the church used to be a terrorizing force of the kingdom of hell.

00:40:41.000 The church used to cause hell to tremble when it prayed.

00:40:44.000 Are there prayer meetings anymore?

00:40:47.000 What?

00:40:48.000 You mentioned the gospel earlier.

00:40:50.000 You've got people going in and out of the church.

00:40:51.000 They can't even tell you what it is that they believe in.

00:40:54.000 So how can you be saved if you cannot tell me the gospel?

00:41:00.000 I've been a pastor for almost 30 years.

00:41:04.000 And I have stood behind that wooden box and I have preached the entirety of the gospels, all 66 books, in entirety.

00:41:11.000 And when you get to the passage where it says, you know, you'll be persecuted and reviled, and blessed are you for my namesake, right?

00:41:18.000 I've read that.

00:41:18.000 I've never faced it until I stepped into politics.

00:41:22.000 That passage never meant more to me.

00:41:25.000 When I stepped into politics and ran for the assembly, my car got keyed.

00:41:29.000 I got death threats.

00:41:31.000 Windows were broken.

00:41:32.000 They sued me.

00:41:33.000 I was pursued and followed, inundated with obliterating mail.

00:41:39.000 My own party came after me.

00:41:41.000 I saw the worst of humanity.

00:41:43.000 I was betrayed.

00:41:43.000 I mean, it was awful what we went through.

00:41:46.000 And I've never felt closer to the Lord, more prayerful, and saw people's lives inspired and moved than when I stepped into the public square.

00:41:56.000 Satan was never concerned about me being behind that wooden box as the walls were closing in on me.

00:42:01.000 Rob, I got to tell you, the Christians, the real Christians I know in Washington, D.C., and in Sacramento, their story is exactly that story.

00:42:10.000 And I got to tell you, there's men and women in D.C. that I know that I admire them so much because I couldn't take that kind of heat.

00:42:18.000 They love the Lord and they love this country and they love what's right and they're doing something about it.

00:42:22.000 If it costs them their lives, they die every day.

00:42:25.000 And I am blown away by them.

00:42:27.000 I would love to see that more in the American Western church.

00:42:31.000 You know what's killing them, though?

00:42:32.000 And the reason why we're losing more and more representation in a constitutional republic is because the lack of proper teaching from the pulpits how to operate in legislation, that you win by increments.

00:42:46.000 And because they're single issue and they're not broad understanding of how to move the needle, the minute one of these conservatives votes in a capacity they don't like, not understanding all the dynamics of what they're up against, they immediately eviscerate them.

00:43:02.000 We eat our own.

00:43:03.000 And then people are left abandoned.

00:43:06.000 And the church doesn't support them.

00:43:08.000 They don't go out and walk precincts for them.

00:43:10.000 They won't even let him come and let them pray over them in the services.

00:43:14.000 I think it was Walter Martin who said Walter Martin now, I'm going way back. 0.98

00:43:19.000 That was back when Christian was a corporal. 0.85

00:43:21.000 He was the father of the apologetics movement of modern day. 0.85

00:43:26.000 Walter Martin said, as I look around, I see the Christian church is the only one that shoots its wounded.

00:43:35.000 That's got to change.

00:43:37.000 But right now, a lot of pastors hide behind government orders with a zeal and a passion that I'd like to see for the Bible.

00:43:46.000 All of a sudden, you know, we've got to obey.

00:43:49.000 We've got to obey the president or we've got to obey the governor.

00:43:52.000 We've got to obey the mayor when I'd love to see that kind of commitment to obeying.

00:43:58.000 I mean, I have this question a lot for Christians. 1.00

00:44:02.000 It's an obedience to convenience.

00:44:03.000 Yeah, I don't.

00:44:05.000 A lot of Christians say they struggle with Romans 13.

00:44:07.000 I don't.

00:44:08.000 Not at all.

00:44:08.000 I mean, so let me just give you the, let me just ask.

00:44:10.000 Let's say you're a Bible-believing Christian like Joseph Bardarenko.

00:44:13.000 Bondarenko. 0.65

00:44:14.000 Bondarenko, yeah.

00:44:15.000 I always mispronounced it.

00:44:16.000 Sorry.

00:44:16.000 Awesome.

00:44:17.000 Evangelist in Russia. 0.84

00:44:19.000 Was he doing what the Bible told him to do? 0.83

00:44:21.000 He was in daily defiance to Soviet law every day. 0.81

00:44:24.000 Absolutely.

00:44:25.000 Listen.

00:44:27.000 Sorry.

00:44:27.000 Better yet.

00:44:28.000 Let's pretend that one of his converts, which he had many, and disciples who was in the Soviet government, they go up to him and say, I need you to go to that village and go shoot 10%. 0.82

00:44:39.000 Because I do that all the time. 0.88

00:44:40.000 Go take your gun and go shoot 10% of the village. 0.96

00:44:43.000 If you go do that, are you doing what God wants you to do? 0.99

00:44:46.000 No.

00:44:47.000 So I find no, it just doesn't really.

00:44:52.000 It doesn't confuse me. 0.86

00:44:53.000 Christians are like, well, you have to open it.

00:44:54.000 The scripture says it's for our good.

00:44:56.000 They're there for our good.

00:44:59.000 So the decree or suggestion is made from the halls of power, no more church.

00:45:07.000 So we must obey them.

00:45:09.000 So we're not going to do church anymore.

00:45:10.000 So even though Jesus said, behold, I've set before you an open door.

00:45:15.000 I firmly believe that pastors don't have the authority to close the doors of their church.

00:45:19.000 That's my conviction.

00:45:20.000 I think I could back it up biblically.

00:45:21.000 That said, when you say, oh, you're defying the government, tell that to the church in Vietnam who meets in secret because they're getting their tongues cut off so that they don't kill them.

00:45:34.000 They just cut their tongues off so they can't speak. 0.95

00:45:36.000 But they meet anyway. 0.96

00:45:37.000 Tell that to the church that meets underground in North Korea or in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

00:45:42.000 It's illegal, punishable by death.

00:45:45.000 They meet anyway.

00:45:46.000 Are you going to tell me that you're going to tell them you're disobeying your government?

00:45:50.000 Some would.

00:45:51.000 Some Christians say that you're disobeying Romans 13.

00:45:53.000 Stop meeting.

00:45:54.000 I just have a.

00:45:55.000 That's the extrapolation of their current argument trying to delegitimize you guys.

00:46:00.000 Yeah.

00:46:00.000 Well, I wonder about that DNA.

00:46:04.000 They're welcome to hold that position because they live in a pluralistic society where they have that freedom.

00:46:08.000 You have the right to be wrong.

00:46:09.000 Yeah.

00:46:10.000 They have the, yeah, they have the liberty to be that for 244 years, men and women have been fighting for that, and they get to hold those views.

00:46:19.000 Yeah.

00:46:20.000 And they have the First Amendment to be able to do that.

00:46:23.000 And if you're a pacifist, people fought so that you could be a pacifist.

00:46:27.000 Really convenient.

00:46:28.000 It's true.

00:46:29.000 Yeah, it is.

00:46:31.000 What kind of a government, it's never happened before, where the founders are either a Christian or they know about the Christian life and they come to an agreement where it fits.

00:46:42.000 The government that they're going to hand you fits for the most ardent believer and the most ardent atheist.

00:46:49.000 Everybody gets the same rights.

00:46:50.000 That's never happened before.

00:46:52.000 Why?

00:46:53.000 They were comfortable in their faith view.

00:46:56.000 Their worldview was good with them to the point where, hey, you're an atheist.

00:47:00.000 You can have the same rights that we do.

00:47:01.000 We're not threatened by that.

00:47:04.000 Wasn't it when you were sitting with Bob McEwen?

00:47:07.000 And you look at 4% of the population.

00:47:10.000 We've been here for 244 years.

00:47:11.000 We represent 4% of the population.

00:47:13.000 But because of the freedom we've been given in this form of government designed with a creator in mind and understanding that man is innately sinful and you have to separate the powers because power wants to concentrate.

00:47:25.000 And it pushes it down to the individual to have that relationship with God, complete freedom like they had in the wilderness, Ten Commandments, as simple as possible.

00:47:34.000 And government was to be limited.

00:47:36.000 And because of that freedom, you have skyscrapers around the world because an American invented the elevator.

00:47:42.000 You have buildings in the desert because an American invented air conditioning.

00:47:46.000 You have the internet because an American invented it. 0.77

00:47:48.000 You can fly there because an American invented the airplane.

00:47:51.000 You can go on and on and on because of this freedom.

00:47:55.000 And then you say, well, no, you know, socialism is more like Jesus.

00:48:00.000 That's a violation of two of the Ten Commandments.

00:48:00.000 I'm sorry, what?

00:48:02.000 Thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not covet.

00:48:04.000 You're not doing your homework, Pastor.

00:48:06.000 That's right.

00:48:07.000 Dig into this stuff.

00:48:09.000 Go beyond your myopic view and do something in a greater capacity for your people.

00:48:16.000 Charlie, are they that naive?

00:48:19.000 Or is it that likes have become more important?

00:48:24.000 It's the social pressure of, am I liked?

00:48:28.000 And Jesus warned us about this.

00:48:30.000 He warned us, beware when all men speak well of you.

00:48:34.000 You went through this personally, Charlie, with the pastor.

00:48:37.000 Yeah, I mean, but with the pastor that came out against you on social media just because he got beaten.

00:48:41.000 I don't say any names.

00:48:42.000 I don't say names.

00:48:43.000 Big pastor came out against me, even though he liked me once and decided he didn't like me as soon as he got called out for the fact he liked me.

00:48:50.000 We all watched that happen.

00:48:52.000 But that's okay.

00:48:53.000 Honestly, I'm so at peace with it. 0.98

00:48:55.000 He's the one that I think is having to pay a price for being a coward. 0.95

00:49:00.000 But yeah, look, what is it? 0.98

00:49:02.000 Yes.

00:49:03.000 I think it's a couple things.

00:49:04.000 Number one, they're poorly staffed.

00:49:06.000 I think that's the first problem. 0.93

00:49:08.000 I think that these churches are poorly staffed and they hire these young, incredibly naive, social media-driven Christians that went to either Wheaton, Calvin, or Taylor, and they know nothing about economics, American history or culture, and they wear their skinny jeans. 0.64

00:49:24.000 No offense, people that wear skinny jeans. 0.56

00:49:26.000 I got a pair on right now.

00:49:27.000 I know, but they staff them all throughout their church, and like a virus, it spreads.

00:49:32.000 And that's the first problem.

00:49:33.000 Number two, I think that they didn't do what you and Rob did for decades leading up to this moment and at least incorporated American first principles into their teaching throughout the last couple decades.

00:49:45.000 So their congregation has been completely unaware of how to interact with any of these things.

00:49:50.000 There's a lot to be said for what you just said, because for me personally, I'm not saying for you, is for me, I spent decades in the secular world working for corporations.

00:50:04.000 That preparation was fantastic for church ministry life.

00:50:10.000 And I learned early on from having a Marine Corps dad, you don't work, son, you don't eat.

00:50:15.000 That's right.

00:50:16.000 Well, my goodness, my dad was not a Bible-believing man until a week before he died. 0.52

00:50:22.000 But that's right out of the Bible.

00:50:24.000 If a man does not eat, I mean, work, neither shall he eat.

00:50:28.000 Yes.

00:50:29.000 So.

00:50:29.000 Well, some of these pastors, look, they entertain a very dangerous version of Thomas Moore's utopia, where maybe we can have heaven on earth.

00:50:43.000 There's nothing biblical about this.

00:50:45.000 We can get really close to hell on earth.

00:50:46.000 I mean, we really can.

00:50:48.000 We don't know how close, but we can get in that direction.

00:50:50.000 Let's put it that way. 0.99

00:50:50.000 Just go to the Soviet Union. 0.99

00:50:52.000 You just abolish villages and people starve. 0.68

00:50:54.000 I mean, think about how inhumane it is if someone starves to death.

00:50:57.000 And that is weeks of crying out and suffering.

00:51:01.000 I mean, starving to death is one of the most torturous ways you can kill somebody.

00:51:05.000 40 million people died of starvation in the Soviet Union in a decade.

00:51:09.000 Which is not an uncommon thing in communist China today.

00:51:13.000 No, and so you study, again, the pastor, I struggle with this because they should know better. 0.90

00:51:18.000 They should and they don't, and they're weak and they're cowardly, and I don't give them excuses anymore. 0.89

00:51:23.000 I don't. 0.90

00:51:25.000 They decide they do not want to know, and they are ideologues more than they're actually in the pursuit of truth.

00:51:32.000 If you are really defending the ideas of Marxist-Leninism, after what we have documented, this is no longer theory, this is no longer some fun craft.

00:51:41.000 This is no longer like a coffee shop exercise.

00:51:43.000 You're complicit.

00:51:44.000 It just isn't.

00:51:44.000 Now, either you are actually so naive and you should resign as a pastor, then you should, absolutely, because you are not in a position to guide people at all, or you know better and you are doing the you are carrying the water for the enemy.

00:51:56.000 Because if you look at where Satan wants, what ideology does Satan actually want to see grow?

00:52:03.000 He wants to see a belief in no God, because that is one of the greatest things he can possibly accomplish.

00:52:07.000 Nietzsche carried more water for Satan than anyone could have possibly imagined, saying God is dead, right?

00:52:12.000 And there's a lot of different ways you can skew past that.

00:52:16.000 But secondly, I think that Satan is a huge advocate in almost the evangelistic position of secular nihilistic humanism.

00:52:30.000 Absolutely.

00:52:31.000 And I mean, so you believe in nothing, nothing matters.

00:52:35.000 All that really matters is your self-indulgences.

00:52:39.000 The government is just indulge in that.

00:52:43.000 Look at people today who indulge in their choice, their pleasure.

00:52:48.000 They're almost automaton-like.

00:52:50.000 That's right.

00:52:51.000 They're almost catatonic.

00:52:53.000 They are unplugged.

00:52:54.000 There is no reality to them.

00:52:56.000 They haven't sweat.

00:52:57.000 They haven't suffered.

00:52:58.000 I mean, people need...

00:52:59.000 Look, isn't this something?

00:53:00.000 We need to learn how to suffer.

00:53:02.000 We need to learn how to eat.

00:53:03.000 Look, maybe the economy is going to go that way.

00:53:06.000 But the way this whole thing is going, we want to see.

00:53:09.000 So here's one of the things you and I are going to talk about in just a moment, which is what we're supposed to do for maturing people or soon-to-be-maturing people is not to remove the dangers from the jungle.

00:53:26.000 It's not to remove the jungle at all and then put them in a safe box.

00:53:30.000 And what I'm saying right now should be so incredibly self-evident that it doesn't need to be said, but we're at a place where it needs to be said.

00:53:36.000 Where someone is 17 and 18, you shouldn't try to create an environment that is easier or even more relaxing or more comfortable for them.

00:53:44.000 First of all, that is immoral, unrealistic, dangerous, and it actually is societally suicidal.

00:53:51.000 What you should do is try to make that person the strongest possible person you can to be able to encounter the suffering, endure the suffering, be able to have an aim so that they can get through those moments, and they can almost have a heroic journey through it so that they can understand that the suffering is inevitable, and I'm now a stronger person.

00:54:13.000 The university does the exact opposite.

00:54:14.000 That's right.

00:54:15.000 The university actually tries to say, you know what?

00:54:18.000 The suffering is not inevitable.

00:54:20.000 It's not.

00:54:21.000 What's wrong is the society.

00:54:23.000 So let's try to remove all the different systems of suffering.

00:54:26.000 This is anti-biblical. 0.94

00:54:27.000 It's anti-God. 0.93

00:54:28.000 It's anti-Christ, all of it, right? 0.81

00:54:30.000 It's anti-Christian. 0.96

00:54:32.000 They coddle them, they wrap them in bubble wrap and put a helmet on them and then have them go out of the way. 0.89

00:54:36.000 And parents do this too.

00:54:37.000 I have no idea.

00:54:38.000 Parents do this too, and I talk about this a lot.

00:54:40.000 And parents have way over-pandered to their kids.

00:54:44.000 They helicopter them.

00:54:46.000 They do them a disservice.

00:54:48.000 And then we wonder why they're 20 years old and they cannot hear an opinion they don't like without screaming belligerently. 0.84

00:54:54.000 And so to finish the point, you now have an entire generation of Christian pastors that have been raised in this entire world where they have been deceptively taught a, I want to be very careful the way I say this. 0.82

00:55:08.000 Let's just say a false intersection of the Bible and Marxist doctrine. 0.85

00:55:16.000 And I know these documents very well.

00:55:18.000 I know what drives these people.

00:55:21.000 And there is a part, I think it's Miton 1 or 2 Peter about beware of false prophets.

00:55:26.000 It's 2 Peter chapter 2 and 3.

00:55:29.000 I can't think of a better example of that.

00:55:34.000 Have you read the book, The Gift of Pain? 1.00

00:55:36.000 And it was written by a doctor that dealt with all the lepers. 1.00

00:55:40.000 Amazing book. 1.00

00:55:41.000 No, I have not. 1.00

00:55:43.000 So he says that if you want to live in a world where there's no pain, go to a leper colony. 1.00

00:55:49.000 That's right. 1.00

00:55:49.000 They're all numb. 1.00

00:55:50.000 Because Hansen's disease takes away all feeling.

00:55:52.000 They're all numb.

00:55:53.000 And they don't die from the disease itself.

00:55:59.000 What they die of is infection because they don't know when they're stepping on a nail or burning their hand because pain is gone.

00:56:05.000 That's right.

00:56:05.000 And they're just rotting.

00:56:07.000 And so when we take away this gift from God of pain in a fallen world to show us that we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing, and it's what Aristotle calls the doing good and feeling good.

00:56:19.000 Feeling good is you look at someone who's struggling with bondage to heroin, and the feeling good thing is to give them more heroin.

00:56:27.000 The do-good is to take it away from them.

00:56:29.000 No, let's give them needles.

00:56:30.000 And now you've got all these walking zombies that are feeling no pain, but they're going nowhere in life. 0.96

00:56:37.000 And they're nodding in the streets and defecating themselves. 0.70

00:56:41.000 And we call that good government. 0.97

00:56:43.000 That's awful.

00:56:44.000 We're responsible for what we're doing to these citizens.

00:56:48.000 And you don't enable them.

00:56:49.000 A man who doesn't care for his family, you have consequences.

00:56:54.000 You have responsibility.

00:56:58.000 You must work.

00:56:58.000 This is what we're supposed to do on this earth.

00:57:00.000 God made us that way.

00:57:02.000 The self-worth and value.

00:57:03.000 How many kids would be lifted up out of depression if they actually worked, if they had chores, if they sweat?

00:57:09.000 And I mean sweat, actual sweat.

00:57:12.000 Work kids didn't.

00:57:12.000 And had to get a callus, a callus on your hands is a great thing.

00:57:19.000 And so I'm going to do Nassim Toleb a disservice here, but he wrote in a phenomenal book called Anti-Fragile.

00:57:25.000 And I never liked the title.

00:57:26.000 I still don't.

00:57:27.000 Because I think it doesn't do service to how phenomenal the analysis that he puts forward, where he frames that most of the world is fragile.

00:57:34.000 And the only word he could think of that would be the opposite of fragility would be anti-fragile.

00:57:40.000 And his argument is that things that are anti-fragile survive and they get stronger and they have meaning and responsibility.

00:57:46.000 Whereas most of society tries to create a hyperextension of fragility.

00:57:52.000 And if you're able to actually be anti-fragile, like the greatest generation was, no matter what you throw at me, we are going to survive, no matter what it is.

00:58:00.000 No matter what it is.

00:58:01.000 Two world wars, yep, fine. 0.64

00:58:03.000 Great Depression, bring it on, right? 0.98

00:58:05.000 Korean War after that one, we're good. 0.92

00:58:08.000 And so there is an acceptance of a toughness that sets in, right? 0.98

00:58:12.000 There's a mentality of, well, don't lessen the pressures on my shoulders.

00:58:15.000 Let's get my shoulders stronger so I can be able to endure that even better.

00:58:20.000 And we have done such an incredible disservice to generations now. 0.94

00:58:24.000 And I think for Christians as well.

00:58:25.000 It's that what a pastor does in bad teaching to a church, it's what a parent does to a kid when it's like, my child would never.

00:58:35.000 Not my child.

00:58:36.000 If the kid comes home and says, you know what, this is what happened.

00:58:39.000 Man, I don't know about you guys, but when I, I didn't want to come home and tell my parents what happened because the first thought from my dad was, what'd you do?

00:58:47.000 Well, your dad was patriotic.

00:58:49.000 He laid down stripes and he'd see stars.

00:58:51.000 But there's also, look, there's a much deeper point.

00:58:54.000 What you're saying, though, is that you respected your father because there was discipline and order and a hierarchy, right?

00:59:01.000 And eventually, through the maturation process, that hierarchy actually goes on its face where you actually end up becoming the caregiver for your father.

00:59:09.000 And that's biblical.

00:59:11.000 However, what's happened now is we now have entire social media movements that try to instill, let's say, disintegration for an eight-year-old against the father-mother hierarchy.

00:59:23.000 Rebel against your parents, not just rebel, rebel is not even the right word.

00:59:26.000 It is almost revolution against your parents, create a revolution against your parents.

00:59:30.000 Remember, turn them in.

00:59:31.000 There are 14-year-olds that say, I hate my parents. 0.99

00:59:34.000 They're a bunch of racists.

00:59:36.000 They raise money from the social media companies and they're getting emancipated at age 15 and they're leaving their parents. 0.90

00:59:41.000 And this is getting glamorized all across.

00:59:43.000 No, it's getting glamorized.

00:59:44.000 It's in Matthew's gospel.

00:59:46.000 Jesus actually talked about that.

00:59:48.000 So, in closing, Rob and Jack, before we have to go into the next fun thing that we're doing, what can Christians do if they're stuck in a church that is being led by a coward or by a con man?

01:00:01.000 By the way, the next thing that we're going to go do, we could get arrested.

01:00:04.000 Great.

01:00:05.000 Isn't it amazing?

01:00:06.000 I mean, today.

01:00:08.000 Today.

01:00:08.000 Yeah.

01:00:09.000 I don't really care.

01:00:10.000 Is that something?

01:00:10.000 I tweeted it out.

01:00:11.000 At this point, I'm just like.

01:00:13.000 Your question is what should you do?

01:00:14.000 But they actually want to arrest us because they understand the principle.

01:00:17.000 They actually understand martyrdom, and they know that if they arrested us, that would be such an unbelievable mistake.

01:00:25.000 Yeah, today the church has to be led by pastors who are willing to divorce themselves from peer pressure, from likability, to have an actual vision, a passion, a calling from God that is worthy of their life.

01:00:40.000 When you have a pastor who's dead, then you're going to find a church that's alive.

01:00:45.000 Wow.

01:00:46.000 I would take it one step further, too.

01:00:48.000 I love that, Jack.

01:00:49.000 I just made that up. 1.00

01:00:51.000 Yeah, that doggal hunt. 1.00

01:00:53.000 And good preachers bar great preachers steal. 0.85

01:00:55.000 So I'm taking that.

01:00:58.000 I would add this: that in these trying times, when I watch men like Jack and others that inspire me, my biggest struggle, Charlie, and I want to say this to all the folks in Christendom, to avoid it being about politics completely, remember this and never forget this.

01:01:22.000 People are not the enemy.

01:01:24.000 They're the opportunity.

01:01:26.000 So when you stand, stand in humility, that you're doing it for the people that revile you and despise you.

01:01:32.000 And you're standing so that they can protest in that freedom.

01:01:36.000 And that's why you're doing it.

01:01:37.000 Be broken in that regard.

01:01:38.000 This isn't a pride issue.

01:01:40.000 And be willing to give everything up for their freedom, even though they despise you for what you're doing.

01:01:46.000 Do it anyways, because you love them.

01:01:48.000 Amen.

01:01:49.000 These are two American heroes, everybody.

01:01:51.000 Pastor Jack, Pastor Rob.

01:01:53.000 Their churches are open.

01:01:54.000 They're flourishing.

01:01:56.000 They're bringing people to Christ.

01:01:58.000 And like you said, maybe more and more pastors are coming around.

01:02:01.000 I'm telling you, not enough?

01:02:02.000 They will.

01:02:03.000 Some are digging into the wrong direction, and that's fine.

01:02:06.000 If you go to a bad church, I shouldn't say a bad church.

01:02:09.000 That's not the right way to say it.

01:02:10.000 If you go to a church led by someone who is currently being deceived, I've made the opinion that it's okay to withdraw and find a church that someone is being led by someone confident.

01:02:18.000 You got two good Southern California options right here, one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country.

01:02:24.000 So just leave the church, pull your tithes, put it to someone that wants to actually fight for what is good in the world.

01:02:30.000 Share all good things with those who instruct you.

01:02:32.000 Don't keep subsidizing people that are confused because your withdrawal from that actually might bring them to the right direction.

01:02:39.000 All right.

01:02:39.000 Thank you, everybody.

01:02:40.000 Email us freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:02:43.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA, T-P-U-S-A.com.

01:02:47.000 Consider supporting our program, charliekirk.com/slash support.

01:02:50.000 We do 12 to 14 podcasts a week.

01:02:53.000 Help pays for our production team and everything.

01:02:55.000 Thanks so much, everybody.

01:02:56.000 God bless.

01:02:58.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:03:00.000 Please help out Jack and Rob.

01:03:03.000 You can email me freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:03:05.000 I can give you options on how to help them.

01:03:06.000 We're going to post some links at charliekirk.com to be able to help Rob and Jack, who are under attack and being threatened with arrest right here, right now.

01:03:14.000 Please consider getting involved with Turning PointUSA at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.

01:03:19.000 Thank you guys so much for listening.

01:03:21.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - August 09, 2020

Two Persecuted Pastors with Jack Hibbs and Rob McCoy

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