The Charlie Kirk Show - Tyler Robinson Hearing Aftermath: Day 4

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.

00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.

00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.

00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.

00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter.

00:00:33.000 Go start a turning point USA high school chapter.

00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.

00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.

00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.

00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.

00:00:45.000 Here I am.

00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.

00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

00:00:56.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

00:01:06.000 Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at NobleGoldInvestments.com.

00:01:13.000 That is NobleGoldInvestments.com.

00:01:17.000 All right.

00:01:17.000 Welcome to our daily recap episode.

00:01:20.000 It was the fourth day of the preliminary hearing of the state of Utah versus Tyler Robinson.

00:01:26.000 And it was an absolute doozy.

00:01:29.000 I think it was the most jam packed day so far.

00:01:33.000 Oh, by a mile.

00:01:34.000 More than the other days combined.

00:01:36.000 Yeah.

00:01:37.000 There was a lot.

00:01:37.000 Five times over.

00:01:38.000 There was a lot going on.

00:01:39.000 Way more.

00:01:40.000 This is a lot of what we were building to the last few days.

00:01:43.000 I guess on the first day, we saw the footage four different times on campus.

00:01:48.000 That was basically a new thing.

00:01:50.000 But other than that, it was a lot of stuff we had seen before, a lot of stuff we knew at least was in the record.

00:01:56.000 This is the first day, I feel, where we got a very large amount of new information, either images of things that we'd only heard stated existed, or in the case of Lance Twiggs, we got actual testimony from a person we had not heard from before.

00:02:13.000 We didn't get all of it.

00:02:14.000 There were a lot of redactions.

00:02:16.000 The defense fought very hard to redact even more of it.

00:02:19.000 Thankfully, a lot of that was dialed back by Judge Graff.

00:02:24.000 And so we got a tremendous amount of information, stuff we did not know before.

00:02:30.000 And we want to dive right into it.

00:02:33.000 So the top lines are just to summarize it, and we'll go into depth on these things.

00:02:38.000 We found out that there was DNA recovered from the rifle, the cartridges, and Dremel tool.

00:02:44.000 All positively matched to Tyler Robinson.

00:02:47.000 Okay.

00:02:48.000 Twigs, Lance Twigs, referred to as Luna, I believe, by Tyler Robinson.

00:02:56.000 Video testimony, and it was devastating, honestly, for the defense.

00:03:00.000 It contains an admission of guilt and much, much more.

00:03:04.000 Timelines established.

00:03:05.000 The defense attorney, what was his name?

00:03:08.000 Burt?

00:03:09.000 Michael Burt, Michael Burt, who, did you say he once?

00:03:12.000 He was once a defense attorney.

00:03:15.000 Far back in the day for the Lyle Menendez.

00:03:18.000 That's the Menendez brothers.

00:03:19.000 Some of you older viewers may remember.

00:03:21.000 Yeah, they killed their parents.

00:03:22.000 So that's his.

00:03:24.000 People know him from that case.

00:03:26.000 And he successfully got a mistrial on the first go round of that case.

00:03:30.000 So this guy attacks, I mean, a completely inappropriate attack targeting of the Kirk family for wanting to see the enhanced video of Tyler Robinson on campus.

00:03:43.000 Remember, there was that back and forth in day two that bled into day three.

00:03:49.000 And they wanted to see the enhanced version.

00:03:51.000 And we call it the John Madden style version where they zoom in, they circle it.

00:03:55.000 They want to see that.

00:03:56.000 And then this Michael Burt guy just starts lobbing a bunch of misrepresentations about the Kirk family, about Erica.

00:04:04.000 We're going to get into that.

00:04:06.000 Jeff Nyman, total hero today, by the way.

00:04:08.000 He successfully argued on behalf of the Kirk family to get the Twigs video, much of it restored, a pretty massive reversal from the original ruling last night.

00:04:20.000 The indication was that a lot of it was going to be redacted, and then the judge went in our direction significantly.

00:04:27.000 So, massive, massive developments today.

00:04:30.000 So, let's get into it.

00:04:30.000 We have some great clips.

00:04:31.000 And then we've got Graham Allen, who's going to be joining us.

00:04:33.000 And then, once again, Andrea Burkhart in the second half of this hour.

00:04:37.000 Where do you want to start, Blake?

00:04:38.000 Which clip?

00:04:38.000 Oh, man.

00:04:39.000 Let's.

00:04:40.000 I'd say this is the part that stood out to me the most.

00:04:45.000 This, I hadn't seen it before.

00:04:49.000 It provoked quite a reaction.

00:04:52.000 They have Lance Twiggs.

00:04:53.000 He's talking about that Tyler Robinson returned to their shared home.

00:04:59.000 After the shooting.

00:05:01.000 In fact, after he'd sent a message basically confessing, but he'd returned home.

00:05:04.000 It was an automated message.

00:05:05.000 Right.

00:05:06.000 Yeah.

00:05:06.000 The automated message saying, you know, go check.

00:05:10.000 Yes.

00:05:11.000 Then he said, is this real?

00:05:12.000 And he, yeah, actually, I don't think we'd seen that before.

00:05:14.000 And the transcript of the UC said, like, I thought I deleted this in all caps.

00:05:19.000 And then they have an extended conversation, which we'd seen a transcript of, but not all of it.

00:05:24.000 There were a few quotes that were new.

00:05:26.000 But anyway, they return and he speaks to him at their home where he confirms that it's real.

00:05:33.000 And he says he admitted it happened and he says he wished he hadn't done it.

00:05:38.000 Let's play clip 31.

00:05:41.000 Did he talk about what he had done?

00:05:44.000 I didn't go into detail.

00:05:47.000 I just asked him in person if what he said was true the night before and he said it was.

00:05:53.000 I started crying a little bit and said he wishes he hadn't done it.

00:05:58.000 And then kept going around and just doing stuff, I think, to keep himself busy or distracted or something.

00:06:07.000 Yeah, that's a really.

00:06:10.000 I think of all the clips today, I was in a really weird headspace after watching that, crying, wished he hadn't done it.

00:06:17.000 And the senselessness of this act of evil, just how unnecessary it was, how this kid didn't even feel after doing it like he was convinced that he should have done it.

00:06:32.000 I mean, like, it's so sociopathic.

00:06:35.000 It sounds bizarre, but if it had been a truly radical terrorist who said, I did it, And I'm glad I did it and I don't regret it.

00:06:43.000 It'd be really evil, but you'd at least understand that he was committed to doing it.

00:06:49.000 He was committed to it.

00:06:50.000 And instead, you get this feeling that this was almost a fleeting obsession, a whim, and he immediately regretted it after he did it, either because he realized it was evil, we can hope, or just because he realized he'd thrown his life away.

00:07:04.000 We do have Graham Allen on the phone.

00:07:06.000 Court got out a little bit later today, so we weren't able to rush him over in front of a Zoom.

00:07:12.000 Welcome.

00:07:14.000 Great to have you by phone.

00:07:16.000 We just played the clip of that video recording from Lance Twiggs talking about him crying, wished he hadn't done it.

00:07:24.000 For me, I'm never going to forget the first time I heard that recording.

00:07:30.000 It's going to leave an impression for me the rest of my life.

00:07:34.000 What was it like in the courtroom?

00:07:35.000 Yeah, so the courtroom today, completely different vibe and feel than it was yesterday.

00:07:41.000 Yesterday was a.

00:07:43.000 A very frustrating day.

00:07:44.000 It was only a half day, and the defense did a really good job yesterday of just kind of dragging it out to where nothing really got done.

00:07:53.000 Obviously, over this Lance Twiggs video.

00:07:57.000 What we did see, I heard the clip play.

00:08:00.000 Yeah, that was a really bombshell clip there.

00:08:03.000 I said it in my recap on my show this morning.

00:08:06.000 The defense is obviously scared to death of this 35, 37 minute video of Lance Twiggs, which is why they fought so hard to get so much of it to where even us in the courtroom, we couldn't see it.

00:08:26.000 The defense was getting their head beat in all day.

00:08:29.000 I mean, if I can just be honest about it, this was evidence after evidence after evidence after evidence.

00:08:36.000 And you really felt that with the defense.

00:08:38.000 This Michael Burke guy coming out of nowhere and attacking the victim, Erica.

00:08:47.000 So look at this.

00:08:48.000 Look, I realize that this is America, and I realize that we are innocent until proven guilty in this country.

00:08:55.000 I get that.

00:08:55.000 But one person in this whole thing, There is no question about innocent or guilt.

00:09:02.000 And that's the fact that Charlie Kirk was brutally murdered and his widow is in the courtroom.

00:09:08.000 And this Michael Burt lawyer guy, because the defense is getting their head kicked in during this case, loses his composure and he throws direct attacks at the widow of Charlie Kirk.

00:09:23.000 It was the craziest thing I've ever seen.

00:09:28.000 I want to talk to you about an issue so many Americans face.

00:09:32.000 And that's health insurance.

00:09:33.000 There's an organization I really, really appreciate called Christian Healthcare Ministries.

00:09:38.000 CHM is a faith based alternative to health insurance.

00:09:43.000 And this is real stuff, folks.

00:09:44.000 Like, you got to listen in.

00:09:46.000 With CHM, you're not paying into a company's profit margin, you're investing in a community with less overhead than the competition.

00:09:53.000 You get reliable support through the giving and prayer of fellow members.

00:09:57.000 Members contribute every month to help pay for each other's medical bills, allowing believers to afford the care they need because.

00:10:04.000 They're not insurance.

00:10:05.000 You get access to your preferred doctor or hospital without network restrictions.

00:10:09.000 You heard that right.

00:10:10.000 If you want to see massive savings in your healthcare budget, CHM has four low cost programs for every stage of life, starting at just $115 a month.

00:10:20.000 Plus, you can enroll or switch your program at any time. 0.94

00:10:24.000 See why so many believers are taking a leap of faith?

00:10:27.000 Start today by visiting chministries.orgslash Charlie and use promo code Charlie for a 50% credit towards your first month.

00:10:35.000 That's chministries.org/slash Charlie and use promo code Charlie.

00:10:43.000 I don't know what I would have done.

00:10:44.000 I mean, you should have seen our text chain.

00:10:46.000 I'm not proud to admit some of the words that I used in it when I saw that happen.

00:10:50.000 And the fact that it came after the widow, it took everything.

00:10:54.000 I literally can't imagine.

00:10:56.000 I thought it was so out of line.

00:10:58.000 I thought it was so just egregious that he did that.

00:11:03.000 And we're going to play the clip because, you know, we're talking about it.

00:11:07.000 Sot29.

00:11:08.000 We're asking the court to keep focus on the purpose of this hearing.

00:11:13.000 And as the justice has said in the Estes case, the purpose of a trial is to determine the defendant's guilt.

00:11:21.000 It's not to educate the public or the victim's family or the world on what evidence the government or the state has.

00:11:29.000 At some point, I think the court has to return to the purpose of these hearings, which is to expeditiously hear the evidence and then determine probable cause.

00:11:41.000 And I want to point out to the court, Ms. Kirk has been very adept at holding press conferences at which she has revealed evidence.

00:11:49.000 She has represented that the state is her attorney.

00:11:54.000 She has access to all the evidence that the state has publicized and that the media and her own lawyer argues is already in the public domain.

00:12:04.000 So they're perfectly free to go outside this courtroom under the court's protective order.

00:12:10.000 They're free to go out and hold press conferences and announce to the world outside the courtroom what they think the evidence is.

00:12:17.000 They have the availability of that evidence.

00:12:20.000 But the court's role, I think, at some point is to exercise some control, move the case forward, and especially when we have witness availability problems.

00:12:28.000 And I'd ask the court that whatever the court does, if you're going to allow revisiting or replaying of evidence for the sole purpose of informing the world or Ms. Kirk or anybody else, that the court do it at the end of the process and not at this point where we will be deprived of our ability to call this witness because she has to be done today.

00:12:49.000 Okay, Mr. Burt, you just, I mean, what a.

00:12:55.000 Like a flurry of lies.

00:12:57.000 First of all, yeah, where's the press conferences, Mr. Burt?

00:13:00.000 What the hell are you even talking about, actually?

00:13:03.000 And I mean, Graham, please weigh in here because so much of that was pure, just unadulterated misrepresentations of the facts.

00:13:14.000 Well, yeah, well, 100%.

00:13:16.000 And I love that the Kirk family attorney, Jeff, went up immediately after to set the record straight that everything that he said.

00:13:26.000 Was a lie that the state is not Erica Kirk's attorneys.

00:13:30.000 They are the attorneys for the state.

00:13:32.000 This is the state versus Tyler Robinson.

00:13:36.000 And look, they give us a whole speech every time we go in there about the decorum and how we in the audience are not allowed to make faces.

00:13:46.000 We're not allowed to say anything.

00:13:48.000 We're not allowed to do anything.

00:13:50.000 And then for this attorney to come out there and take multiple personal shots, it seems like he's kind of drinking his own Kool Aid there.

00:14:01.000 And I was shocked that the judge didn't say anything during that moment.

00:14:04.000 I'm not saying that the judge didn't rule correctly in a lot of ways today.

00:14:08.000 We had a lot of wins.

00:14:10.000 But in that moment, I really feel like that attorney stepped over the line and badgering the widow of the victim.

00:14:21.000 Like she is the victim because the victim is no longer here.

00:14:25.000 Well, Erica is the victim in this.

00:14:26.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:27.000 Correct, correct.

00:14:28.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:30.000 And here's the other thing that I will say about this that I can testify to that I'm.

00:14:35.000 I don't know if the cameras pick up or not.

00:14:37.000 I don't know what, you know, the public sees.

00:14:40.000 We were in the back this time around.

00:14:42.000 So the front two rows alternate between families.

00:14:45.000 So Tyler Robinson's family was in the front row today.

00:14:50.000 And what I will say is this they were distraught through the entire thing.

00:14:55.000 And it wasn't a distraught, like, I can't believe this unfair thing is happening.

00:15:00.000 It was more, in my opinion, it was more a, we cannot believe that our son did this or our, Did we lose him?

00:15:12.000 Did we lose him for a sec?

00:15:13.000 We're working.

00:15:14.000 Oh, there he is.

00:15:16.000 You got your background.

00:15:17.000 I'm sorry.

00:15:18.000 I'm traveling down the road.

00:15:20.000 I was just saying that Tyler Robinson's family was in the front and they were distraught throughout the whole process.

00:15:27.000 And it wasn't a distraught like this is egregious.

00:15:30.000 It was a distraught like we can't believe that our son or our family member did this.

00:15:36.000 And so that was something that was really telling to me personally in the.

00:15:41.000 Audience in the book.

00:15:43.000 I want to ask about that, Graham.

00:15:45.000 At some point, while the Lance Twigs video was playing, it did sound like you could hear a sob somewhere.

00:15:52.000 I think it was actually quite close to the point where he says, where Lance was narrating, he wished he hadn't done this.

00:15:57.000 It was in the vicinity of that.

00:15:59.000 Did you notice that in the court?

00:16:02.000 Was that happening?

00:16:03.000 And do you know what quarter it was coming from?

00:16:06.000 Well, it may have come from both sides.

00:16:09.000 Erica and Charlie's mom were pretty emotional during that moment as well.

00:16:16.000 So, honestly, my attention kind of got drawn towards them in that moment.

00:16:20.000 So, it could have gone both ways.

00:16:22.000 There was a lot of emotion in the courtroom from both families today.

00:16:30.000 We're going to play Jeff Nyman's retort back to Mr. Michael Burt's egregious commentary.

00:16:37.000 And that's what it was.

00:16:38.000 I mean, he was pontificating.

00:16:42.000 I think at some point he got the judge interjected when he was.

00:16:48.000 I guess cross examining or examining the questioning the witness from the ATF and said you're argumentative.

00:16:55.000 And I was like, well, we could have used that a little while ago.

00:16:57.000 Anyways, this is a bit longer clip, Graham.

00:16:59.000 Bear with me.

00:16:59.000 It's a minute and a half long, but this is Jeff Nyman, 34.

00:17:03.000 Thank you.

00:17:04.000 Briefly.

00:17:06.000 And I say that because time is of the essence, not because I don't want to hear what you have to say.

00:17:12.000 I understand, but there was a lot that was just said that's just not true.

00:17:15.000 Well, so let me put this in the spot where we need to be.

00:17:21.000 I understand that there's opinions, but I have to keep this to the probable cause.

00:17:25.000 I don't want this to go to a back and forth about issues that lie outside of probable cause.

00:17:32.000 And I realize statements are made, and as the victim's representative attorney, you want to address it.

00:17:39.000 So I will hear you, but we need to be brief.

00:17:42.000 So if you can be succinct, I definitely want to hear what you have to say.

00:17:46.000 Your Honor, I am almost always brief, I promise you.

00:17:50.000 The family has not seen this video.

00:17:51.000 It hasn't.

00:17:52.000 It doesn't have access to the evidence the state has.

00:17:54.000 The state is the state.

00:17:56.000 Ms. Kirk and the family have their representatives.

00:17:58.000 There's a completely distortion of reality that was just put forth.

00:18:03.000 And this isn't about educating anybody about anything.

00:18:06.000 This is about allowing the family to see the evidence that's been gathered after a 10-month investigation in which a father, a husband was assassinated.

00:18:17.000 That's what this is about.

00:18:18.000 So we ask you to please allow the family to view the video like the court has viewed in order to allow the family to process this moment.

00:18:28.000 Thank you.

00:18:29.000 Thank you.

00:18:30.000 Yeah.

00:18:30.000 Good for Jeff, by the way.

00:18:32.000 I mean, that was funny.

00:18:33.000 The judge was like, I must implore you to be quick.

00:18:36.000 And he goes on, I think, longer than Jeff did.

00:18:39.000 Yeah, I know, exactly.

00:18:40.000 There's a lot of that in this case.

00:18:41.000 Well, let's move on.

00:18:43.000 I guess the judge is going to make a final determination about that tomorrow, whether or not the family can see the John Madden style video that we're talking about, the enhanced zoom in with lines and circles and that sort of thing.

00:18:55.000 Let's talk.

00:18:55.000 Well, he did grant it.

00:18:57.000 He did grant it.

00:18:58.000 Oh, did he grant it?

00:18:59.000 And so he did.

00:19:00.000 He did.

00:19:00.000 And so.

00:19:01.000 It was contingent upon, you know, they did this back and forth about, you know, oral arguments for binding and whatnot.

00:19:08.000 And it looks like what's going to happen is it's going to end at noon, like the defense had originally stated.

00:19:14.000 Then we're going to get all to this, you know, briefings that they want to do.

00:19:19.000 So it sounds like we are going to get to, or the courtroom and the family is going to get to view that video.

00:19:27.000 I don't think that the media gets to, but the family and the courtroom does.

00:19:33.000 So he did grant that at the end there.

00:19:35.000 All right.

00:19:36.000 Let's get back to this Lance Twig stuff here, Graham.

00:19:40.000 I think this was, to me, the most important stuff.

00:19:43.000 This is Robinson leaving the apartment early on September 10th.

00:19:46.000 Clip 8.

00:19:47.000 Let's jump to September 10th.

00:19:50.000 Did he spend the night in the apartment the night of September 9th into September 10th?

00:19:58.000 Yeah, he did.

00:20:00.000 Yes.

00:20:01.000 Do you know when he left the apartment on September 10th?

00:20:03.000 I don't know an exact time.

00:20:05.000 I just know he left early.

00:20:08.000 I heard him leaving, and he just said he had a long drive to work that day, so he was leaving early.

00:20:14.000 Okay, so early.

00:20:17.000 Any guess as to what, when that was?

00:20:22.000 I don't know.

00:20:24.000 I would have thought it was 5 a.m. because that's when like an early work day was for him, but it was probably more like 4.

00:20:31.000 All right.

00:20:32.000 So he confirms that he left super early.

00:20:33.000 He left very early around 4.

00:20:35.000 You can do the math.

00:20:37.000 If it's between 4 and 5, you do the math.

00:20:38.000 He got there, I want to say, late in the 8 o'clock hour around 9 is when he arrives on campus.

00:20:44.000 You can go check it.

00:20:44.000 It's about 3 hours and 45 minutes from St. George.

00:20:48.000 To Orem, and maybe stops for guests, stops for breakfast, something like that.

00:20:54.000 Good conversation is about respect.

00:20:57.000 It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and be heard.

00:21:01.000 Charlie knew that.

00:21:02.000 Turning Point still knows that.

00:21:03.000 And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other.

00:21:13.000 When ideas meet respect, good things happen.

00:21:16.000 On TikTok, you can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father explaining.

00:21:22.000 Sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers, viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond.

00:21:27.000 TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding.

00:21:31.000 You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world.

00:21:35.000 TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real.

00:21:44.000 And then, of course, we saw previously in the other days the compilation video of him on campus, and then he's asked about surveillance.

00:21:52.000 Still, images taken from surveillance video, and I thought this was a really powerful part, Graham, where you hear Twig say that looks like Tyler.

00:22:01.000 He identifies and recognizes the person in the images.

00:22:05.000 SOP 17.

00:22:05.000 Okay.

00:22:09.000 Okay.

00:22:15.000 Before he came home, had you seen the press releases, any of the media on this?

00:22:21.000 I'd seen one.

00:22:24.000 Instagram like link a friend of mine had sent in our group chat.

00:22:30.000 But I hadn't really looked into it at all.

00:22:33.000 And had you seen the images that were released of the suspect?

00:22:37.000 I did the next day.

00:22:39.000 I don't think I saw any on the 10th.

00:22:41.000 I'm going to show you a couple of those images.

00:22:56.000 I'm on the FBI's website.

00:22:58.000 You can see the URL there at the top.

00:23:01.000 This is a press release about this event.

00:23:05.000 And here on the screen, you see these, it looks like there's two rows of three images.

00:23:11.000 Do you recognize the person in these images?

00:23:17.000 I wouldn't say with 100% certainty just because of camera quality, but that looks like him in terms of the shoes he's wearing, the sunglasses.

00:23:25.000 I don't think I'd specifically seen him wearing that hat, but he was usually wearing a hat.

00:23:31.000 And then jeans.

00:23:33.000 So it definitely, especially the bottom, the last two definitely do look like him.

00:23:44.000 Oh, they do look like Tyler Robinson.

00:23:49.000 Boom.

00:23:50.000 Definitely look like him.

00:23:51.000 Graham, I've incredibly been told by the internets and the social medias that none of these videos from the surveillance cameras on campus.

00:24:02.000 Determined that it was actually Tyler Robinson on campus.

00:24:06.000 I've been credibly informed, Graham.

00:24:08.000 Yeah.

00:24:08.000 Well, if you listen to the crazies on the internet, they will say that every piece of evidence that the state has introduced has made the state look worse.

00:24:18.000 And that's what we're dealing with right here.

00:24:20.000 Look, I'm not a lawyer.

00:24:22.000 I'm not an attorney.

00:24:25.000 What we saw from the defense today is look, that's what happened in the parts that were allowed to be seen.

00:24:34.000 I can't imagine.

00:24:35.000 What Lance Twigg says, reveals in the unredacted part that the court did submit into evidence and will be seen.

00:24:46.000 Everything has lined up to Tyler Robinson.

00:24:50.000 The timeframe, Blake, I just heard you talking about it.

00:24:52.000 Leaving super early, you do the math, boom, he's right there on the UVU campus video.

00:24:58.000 We had the testimony of the other SBI agent, not the FBI, the SBI agent today.

00:25:05.000 We had the ATF forensics person come in there.

00:25:08.000 We've got the DNA from earlier from the FBI, along with all of the DNA on the cartridge, the gun, everything.

00:25:17.000 We were wondering when they were going to bring the gun, the rifle in.

00:25:21.000 Well, they brought it in today, and it was one in a trillion type of odds.

00:25:27.000 And again, innocent until proven guilty.

00:25:31.000 Charlie believed in that.

00:25:32.000 I believe in that.

00:25:34.000 As frustrating as this judicial process is, I get it.

00:25:39.000 The evidence is truly becoming overwhelming.

00:25:42.000 And like I said, you could really kind of feel a shift in the courtroom today where it really felt like the defense was.

00:25:50.000 I mean, even when they went up and they called their witness, all the defense really did was just the same thing they did with the FBI DNA testing was talking about, well, peer reviewed studies of flaws.

00:26:06.000 Well, we've got just as many peer reviewed studies that are for it.

00:26:09.000 Well, what about this and what about that?

00:26:11.000 And then the state goes up and said, Is this not used nationwide?

00:26:17.000 Yes.

00:26:18.000 Is your lab accredited?

00:26:19.000 Yes.

00:26:20.000 Has this been used in court cases?

00:26:23.000 Are you familiar with this 2009 study that poked holes in the, you know, it was like so painfully, excessively in depth for, and by the way, this was again our good buddy Michael Burt that got chastised by Judge Graff multiple times, got corrected, continued on and Graff.

00:26:46.000 Had to step in a second time.

00:26:48.000 Was not a good day.

00:26:49.000 Was not a good day for Mr. Michael Burt in that way.

00:26:53.000 All right, guys, let's keep going through some of these clips.

00:26:55.000 I just.

00:26:55.000 Because we have the bullet engraved.

00:26:57.000 Yeah, we just got so many things that line up with evidence we found at the scene.

00:27:01.000 So, for example, when they later had the police officer on, we finally see the images of the engraved bullets.

00:27:10.000 She's scanning through them.

00:27:11.000 In fact, how about we show a few of those?

00:27:13.000 Let me look at it here and get the number.

00:27:15.000 Why don't we have Lance describing this scene?

00:27:19.000 Do we want the description first?

00:27:20.000 All right, SOT 10.

00:27:22.000 He asks you here, remember how I was engraving bullets?

00:27:25.000 Was he engraving bullets before this?

00:27:28.000 Yeah, I don't remember exactly when, but he had said he was planning to go hunting with his family.

00:27:35.000 And he asked me if we had a Dremel, because he said he wanted to create messages on bullets.

00:27:44.000 And I just told him where our Dremel was and told him to make sure he doesn't set off a bullet on accident in the house.

00:27:52.000 But I didn't really think about it until then.

00:27:55.000 How long before?

00:27:58.000 September 10th, was this that he asked about the Dremel?

00:28:02.000 I don't remember because he'd been talking about the huntingslash camping trip for a couple months, but I don't remember when he was specifically asking to engrave the bullets.

00:28:17.000 So, are we talking like a year before?

00:28:20.000 Oh, no, not that long.

00:28:21.000 It would have been, I'd say, at most a month before this was when he was asking.

00:28:26.000 At most a month before, he's asking about this tool to engrave on bullets and then.

00:28:32.000 The next witness we had, this Faumuina.

00:28:37.000 I'm not sure how you say it exactly, but she was really detailing all the stuff they found when they found the rifle, when they found the cartridges, what they found at his home.

00:28:47.000 And she goes through.

00:28:48.000 We actually see her going through the rounds that they found, including the one that was fired.

00:28:55.000 Let's go, clip 22.

00:28:57.000 What are we looking at here in exhibit 19?

00:29:00.000 This is the cartridge case that was recovered from the gun.

00:29:03.000 And what position was this in in the gun?

00:29:07.000 This was the, or this is what was in the chamber.

00:29:10.000 Do you notice an inscription or an etching on this cartridge case?

00:29:15.000 Yes, I do.

00:29:16.000 Will you read what that says?

00:29:17.000 Yes.

00:29:18.000 Notice this bulge?

00:29:20.000 Will you read what this says? 0.99

00:29:22.000 O-W-O-W-T-S?

00:29:24.000 And to page three?

00:29:27.000 This.

00:29:28.000 And question mark, correct?

00:29:29.000 Yes, question mark.

00:29:30.000 Is this a photograph of one of the cartridges that was found in the gun?

00:29:34.000 Yes, it is.

00:29:34.000 This is the head stamp of it, and it says it is a, or an equipment.

00:29:37.000 According to the head stamp, it is a Remington 30-odd 6 Springfield.

00:29:41.000 Is that a different caliber than a 223 round?

00:29:44.000 Yes, it is.

00:29:44.000 Will you read the markings here?

00:29:47.000 Hey, fascist. 0.93

00:29:49.000 And page three. 0.97

00:29:50.000 Catch.

00:29:51.000 And page four.

00:29:54.000 Up arrow, right arrow, down arrow, down arrow, down arrow.

00:29:58.000 Will you read the inscription here?

00:30:00.000 Old Bella Chow.

00:30:01.000 Chow Chow. 1.00

00:30:03.000 If you read this comma, you are gay. 1.00

00:30:06.000 L M A O. 1.00

00:30:07.000 So I think this is really important, Graham, because all of these have.

00:30:10.000 Political messages, right?

00:30:12.000 Bella Chow is a famous anti fascist song from Italy or whatever.

00:30:17.000 Hey, fascist, catch all of this stuff, which sort of boggles the mind because remember, they went through that whole rigmarole with David Englehart's letter establishing that Charlie was a Christian and conservative, which we all know.

00:30:28.000 And then you have the bullets here that actually reinforce the fact this enhancement charge that it was essentially a politically motivated assassination.

00:30:38.000 Graham, your thoughts?

00:30:39.000 Yeah, no, I think it obviously is.

00:30:41.000 You know, I may be mistaken about this, so do not.

00:30:45.000 Hold me to this because I, again, I'm not a lawyer, but I think that that's going to be part of when they have these briefings that they're talking about.

00:30:54.000 I think that the state said, because this was brought up, like the religious thing and political thing.

00:31:01.000 And I think that they're going to perhaps adjust maybe the wording a little bit.

00:31:06.000 Like that's part of like this briefing thing that they want to do because the defense wants to challenge the counts and all this.

00:31:14.000 So I think they're going to correct that because you're right.

00:31:18.000 Religion and politics have intersected for years, especially over the past 10 years.

00:31:24.000 And it was, it was.

00:31:25.000 Why was Charlie targeted, in my opinion, allegedly for legal purposes, by Tyler Robinson?

00:31:35.000 Charlie had open debate on political and religious matters, specifically that were anti what Tyler Robinson's lifestyle was and what Tyler Robinson's lifestyle included.

00:31:49.000 And even in those text messages to Lance Twiggs, saying he couldn't deal with Charlie's hatred anymore, and some hate can't be.

00:32:00.000 I can't remember the exact wording.

00:32:01.000 Can't be negotiated out.

00:32:03.000 Can't be negotiated out.

00:32:05.000 Thank you very much.

00:32:05.000 Yes.

00:32:08.000 Hi, folks.

00:32:09.000 Andrew Colvett here.

00:32:10.000 I'd like to tell you about my friends over at Y Refi.

00:32:13.000 You've probably been hearing me talk about Y Refi for some time now.

00:32:17.000 We are all in with these guys.

00:32:19.000 If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call.

00:32:25.000 Maybe you're behind on your payments.

00:32:27.000 Maybe you're even in default.

00:32:29.000 You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore.

00:32:31.000 Y Refi will provide you a Custom payment based on your ability to pay.

00:32:36.000 They tailor each loan individually.

00:32:38.000 They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back.

00:32:42.000 We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt.

00:32:48.000 Many of them don't even know how much they owe.

00:32:51.000 YRefi can help.

00:32:52.000 Just go to YRefi.com.

00:32:54.000 That's the letter Y then refi.com.

00:32:58.000 And remember, YRefi doesn't care what your credit score is.

00:33:01.000 Just go to YRefi.com and tell them your friend Andrew sent you. 0.96

00:33:07.000 Yeah, totally, totally disgusting.

00:33:10.000 I just, again, you know, all of this from the defense is a head scratcher because they, how long do they take on the David Englehart letter?

00:33:18.000 Like an hour?

00:33:20.000 Two hours?

00:33:21.000 And then they get this, the Bella Chow, all this stuff on the engravings.

00:33:25.000 It proves the same point that this was politically or religiously motivated act, right?

00:33:31.000 Assassination.

00:33:32.000 So I don't know.

00:33:33.000 Well, I spoke, a friend of mine who's an attorney actually commented on that to me that.

00:33:38.000 We did have the very extended attempt to keep this from getting introduced into the record, too much of this visual evidence, too much of the Twigs interview.

00:33:46.000 But once it was getting in, once they were playing the Twigs interview where he's saying, I spoke to him and he confessed to this, they ask nothing.

00:33:54.000 They want to get through it as quickly as possible.

00:33:57.000 And instead, they're going to have agonizingly long cross examination on stuff that is peripheral and boring, frankly, like the David Englehart letter.

00:34:08.000 Or the arcana of this, of what type of bullet fragments were found, and analysis of that.

00:34:14.000 And it's kind of, they want you dedicating more of your headspace to that confusing, difficult stuff, and as little headspace as possible to Tyler Robinson confessed to this multiple times to multiple people.

00:34:26.000 It's such a transparent tactic.

00:34:28.000 And I will just say here, we're going to play this clip.

00:34:30.000 This is Agent Faumina.

00:34:33.000 She reads through the DNA evidence found on the rifle.

00:34:36.000 Here you go SOT 25.

00:34:38.000 Exhibits 1.1 and 1.4.

00:34:41.000 Do you know what that is referring to?

00:34:43.000 Yeah, they're referring to 1.1 is swabs of the stock and grips of the rifle, and then 1.4 is swabs of the bolt of the rifle with possible ridge detail andor smudging.

00:34:53.000 The DNA profiles are at least one trillion times more likely if they originated from Tyler Robinson, Exhibit 7.1, as a contributor to the major components and three unrelated unknown individuals than if they originated from four unrelated unknown individuals.

00:35:10.000 All right, so now I just wanted to play that because, again, to Blake's point, there's all these.

00:35:14.000 Big top line items, DNA, confession, text messages, all this stuff.

00:35:20.000 The timing lines up exactly right on all this stuff.

00:35:23.000 Okay.

00:35:25.000 Graham, I want to address this because, you know, I'm part of this story, whether I like it or not.

00:35:30.000 But the caliber of the round, the type of bullet, right?

00:35:34.000 We know that they recovered fragments and that the bullet was badly damaged inside of Charlie.

00:35:41.000 Okay.

00:35:41.000 Right.

00:35:42.000 So, Phoenix ammunition.

00:35:43.000 I'm actually trying to book him for our show tomorrow during day five.

00:35:49.000 But he put out a tweet, and I just want to make sure we address it.

00:35:52.000 So he's looking at the photos shown in court of the type of bullets, okay?

00:35:57.000 He said Remington headstamp on the case, and despite the somewhat low resolution on the photo, you can see the somewhat blunted nature of the projectile's tip.

00:36:08.000 This is a Remington core locked soft point round.

00:36:13.000 Core locked.

00:36:14.000 And I think we have an image of that brand if you guys want to put it up there.

00:36:19.000 Specifically designed, this is what he says.

00:36:21.000 So, this guy's an expert in ballistics.

00:36:23.000 He makes bullets for a living.

00:36:25.000 He says it's specifically designed to deform, slow down, and prevent an exit wound.

00:36:30.000 Available at literally every single gun store and sporting goods store that sells ammunition.

00:36:36.000 He goes on, Graham, he says, in fact, 16 out of the 17 30-odd six varieties manufactured by Remington use some type of expanding, deforming, or fragmenting bullet.

00:36:47.000 Okay?

00:36:48.000 16 out of the 17.

00:36:50.000 Graham, this is an important piece for the internet of it all.

00:36:54.000 Maybe just reflect on that for a moment as we wrap up with you.

00:36:58.000 Yeah.

00:36:58.000 I mean, yes.

00:37:00.000 Obviously, they did not address any of that in the courtroom today.

00:37:05.000 I saw the internet when I finally got my phone back, but I noticed that as well.

00:37:11.000 And there were a couple of us that are prior military, prior law enforcement.

00:37:14.000 We all said the same thing.

00:37:16.000 That doesn't look like a full metal jacket to us.

00:37:19.000 And so that does eliminate.

00:37:23.000 A lot of everything, everything that's been introduced by the state eliminates andor totally, totally refutes the conspiracy theories by people that are acting in not good faith.

00:37:37.000 They're only trying to go after innocent people.

00:37:42.000 They're trying to destroy lives for the purposes of clicks.

00:37:45.000 Clicks mean more views, views means more money.

00:37:48.000 That's all this is.

00:37:49.000 And there's still a long way to go in all of this.

00:37:53.000 This is going to lead, again, in my opinion.

00:37:56.000 I'm not a lawyer, so what does my opinion really matter?

00:37:59.000 It's just a matter of when we go to trial now, at this point, in my opinion.

00:38:05.000 And then we've got a long trial.

00:38:06.000 Nobody is under any disillusions that if and when this goes to trial, that this isn't going to be a lengthy thing.

00:38:13.000 But I keep saying justice is coming for Charlie Kirk.

00:38:18.000 I truly believe that justice is coming.

00:38:20.000 And the evidence against Tyler Robinson is overwhelming.

00:38:26.000 It is so much so.

00:38:29.000 It's hard to fathom any other outcomes at this point.

00:38:32.000 Graham, thank you for joining us.

00:38:34.000 Thank you for being by the family side inside the courtroom.

00:38:38.000 I really appreciate you, man.

00:38:39.000 And we'll talk to you soon.

00:38:41.000 Get some rest.

00:38:42.000 I know it's quite the scene there.

00:38:45.000 So we appreciate you making the time, Graham.

00:38:47.000 Okay, guys.

00:38:48.000 Talk later.

00:38:51.000 Good conversation is about respect.

00:38:54.000 It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and be heard.

00:38:58.000 Charlie knew that.

00:38:59.000 Turning Point still knows that.

00:39:00.000 And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other.

00:39:10.000 When ideas meet respect, good things happen.

00:39:12.000 On TikTok, you can find a mechanic.

00:39:14.000 Explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers, viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond.

00:39:23.000 TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding.

00:39:27.000 You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world.

00:39:32.000 TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real.

00:39:44.000 Following this case extremely closely.

00:39:47.000 And if you are following along with us, she was also on the show on Monday night after day one.

00:39:52.000 Welcome back to the show, Andrea.

00:39:54.000 Thanks so much for having me back.

00:39:56.000 You are a legal commentator, experienced trial and appellate litigator.

00:40:00.000 You can find her at Andrea Burkhart.

00:40:02.000 Substack.com.

00:40:04.000 This was a big day.

00:40:06.000 We were commenting earlier that this was the most substantive day so far.

00:40:10.000 I felt like they got through a lot.

00:40:11.000 That Lance Twiggs video recording testimony was really, really.

00:40:17.000 Enormous in so many ways.

00:40:19.000 What do you make of it?

00:40:20.000 30,000 foot view.

00:40:21.000 Oh, I couldn't agree with you more.

00:40:24.000 I think up to today, the evidence is building and the picture is becoming clearer, but it was today that really pulled all the pieces together and drew the most direct connections between the ballistics and the statements and so forth.

00:40:40.000 We now have a way to tie this individual that we're seeing on the camera and this firearm that was recovered with.

00:40:50.000 Tyler Robinson himself, by virtue of this evidence today.

00:40:56.000 Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of emotional parts, I think, for today, for us from our POV.

00:41:02.000 And so I'm going to try and stay out of that because you're very good at being dispassionate.

00:41:08.000 But I will just say one final point on that.

00:41:10.000 The fact that Lance Twiggs claims that he doesn't remember talking about Charlie with Tyler Robinson, I found horrifying to hear that it was just.

00:41:21.000 I think we said earlier, it feels like his description of it was almost like a whim.

00:41:26.000 It was a passing fancy kind of thing.

00:41:32.000 It seemed like a good idea at the time.

00:41:33.000 Yeah, and he gets back and he cries and wishes he wouldn't have done it.

00:41:40.000 I mean, that's just, I don't know.

00:41:41.000 And so do we all.

00:41:43.000 Yeah, I mean, seriously.

00:41:47.000 Let's fast forward to the end because Blake and I were just talking about this, and I want to go back through some of.

00:41:52.000 The details of the day, but at the end, they were having this deliberation back and forth about timing and what they call it a bond or a bind over.

00:42:02.000 It was, they spent the last half hour discussing this, setting a hearing date, it seems, for September 1st.

00:42:08.000 They had a very bizarre back and forth about should we have a page count cap on our briefs, and one proposed 30, one proposed 40 pages, and Judge Graff, in his Solomon like wisdom, decreed 35 pages, even though he noted it was an odd number.

00:42:22.000 That is a very good description of Judge. Graph.

00:42:24.000 He's always splitting the baby.

00:42:25.000 It was all very odd.

00:42:26.000 And I guess I didn't know what they were talking about.

00:42:28.000 So maybe you could explain some of that to us.

00:42:31.000 So, bindover is the word that they use to describe the defendant being required to answer to a jury, to formally answer the charge through the trial process, which is what this preliminary hearing is about.

00:42:47.000 Is the charge justified in moving forward to trial or not?

00:42:51.000 And so that's what the bindover decision is.

00:42:53.000 What I found interesting about today and that whole conversation is that, in my experience anyway, although granted we don't do these types of hearings in Washington, but I've You know, watched a fair amount of court, it's not really that common to have extended briefing about probable cause.

00:43:12.000 Probable cause is not a particularly difficult standard to meet.

00:43:16.000 And there's just a lot of ways to get there.

00:43:20.000 In this particular case, as well, in Utah, there's a lot of limitations to the judge's ability to question the evidence.

00:43:29.000 He has to just kind of take it at face value at this stage because it's for the jury to decide if they believe it, if the science is good, if somebody is credible, and all of those types of things.

00:43:39.000 So, it's not normally the type of thing that requires 35 pages of briefing.

00:43:46.000 But here we are.

00:43:49.000 It is a death penalty case, of course.

00:43:51.000 They are going to be more cautious.

00:43:52.000 Judge is, again, giving them every opportunity to make the record that they see they need to.

00:43:59.000 But having said that, I have a hard time myself just imagining what is going to take 35 pages for the defense to say about this case.

00:44:08.000 Yeah, I felt like all they basically did was try and obstruct.

00:44:13.000 The presentation of evidence that seemed pretty straightforward to the layman's eyes out here.

00:44:17.000 I want to know the process here, Andrea.

00:44:19.000 So they were talking about tomorrow, they think it's going to take a half day, and then there might be some stuff that draws it into the, I don't know, a couple hours after lunch break.

00:44:31.000 What happens then?

00:44:33.000 What happens when they wrap this?

00:44:35.000 What does the judge do next?

00:44:37.000 So at this point, the case will simply adjourn and he will wait for the briefs.

00:44:43.000 The case will continue to develop, I would expect.

00:44:45.000 Expect and probably has in terms of discovery is continuing to be produced and provided and so forth.

00:44:53.000 They're not going to put the brakes on and wait for the court's decision.

00:44:58.000 Wouldn't expect them to do that.

00:45:00.000 So there's likely to be things going on in the background.

00:45:03.000 We may see some litigation related to that type of thing if there are disputes that arise.

00:45:09.000 But by and large, at this point, we wait because it's not until he's.

00:45:16.000 Found to, you know, probable causes is found and Mr. Robinson is bound over for trial that he even has to enter a plea to the case.

00:45:24.000 So there's just this kind of thing.

00:45:27.000 It's so painfully slow.

00:45:29.000 It's so painful.

00:45:29.000 So we're likely to get past, since it sounds they'll have the hearing on September 1st, but then they have to weigh it.

00:45:34.000 We're likely to get past the one year mark before a plea is entered in this case.

00:45:40.000 Yeah, I think that's very possible.

00:45:42.000 Now, the way around that, I think, would be if Judge Graff did what would be extremely atypical for him.

00:45:49.000 And that is the rule on probable cause from the bench at this September 1st hearing.

00:45:56.000 But he, like everyone, he's been very careful.

00:45:59.000 He's taken the care to make sure that, one, he is entertaining the arguments of the parties, but also that he is documenting his decisions and his thought process so that that's in our record.

00:46:12.000 It's available for review for everybody.

00:46:15.000 And that takes time as well.

00:46:16.000 So hard to imagine that happening before the one year deadline.

00:46:21.000 Andrea, so if.

00:46:22.000 If he did rule from the bench, which apparently is at his discretion to do so, I don't see why that would be a problem given the, you know, breadth and depth of evidence that was just presented to him.

00:46:34.000 Does that sort of the reason he may not choose to do that is to look impartial, to look fair, and to protect this case from appeal down the road?

00:46:44.000 Is that kind of the logic for not doing that?

00:46:47.000 Yeah, I think it's all of those things.

00:46:49.000 I think that he has, although not.

00:46:53.000 He doesn't have a perfect record on transparency, but he has certainly, I should say, maybe he's not a maximalist as I am, but he has certainly appreciated and recognized the importance of it.

00:47:06.000 And so the thought process, being transparent about that, I think is something that's important to him to make sure not just that we know what the ruling is, but why he reached that ruling.

00:47:17.000 And so I think also, like you said, the fairness to the defense so that they're on notice and if they take any issue with it, they can dispute it, they can appeal it.

00:47:28.000 And then there's no concern about somebody's rights being trampled.

00:47:33.000 All right.

00:47:33.000 So I think then my questions now, Andrea, go to this back and forth.

00:47:37.000 And you saw Kirk family representative Jeffrey Nyman get in the mix here.

00:47:42.000 This balancing, this tension between transparency, Max, you said you called yourself a maximalist.

00:47:48.000 I think it's fair to say that the Kirk family and the state have been more on the transparency side.

00:47:53.000 The defense has been arguing to keep certain exhibits from the public.

00:47:58.000 How do courts weigh?

00:48:01.000 This question of transparency when it comes to the evidence and bias for a potential jury or tainting a jury pool.

00:48:11.000 I saw you posting about, I believe it's Estes, and then they kept referencing the French name.

00:48:17.000 You probably know it, Andrea.

00:48:19.000 I know.

00:48:20.000 Yeah.

00:48:21.000 What is the, I guess, predicates or precedents, rather, for this?

00:48:26.000 And what is Judge Graff trying to balance here?

00:48:30.000 Well, that's a very large question.

00:48:34.000 The issue with Estes and Rideau goes to televising and the presence of the cameras.

00:48:40.000 And these are rather old precedents from the US Supreme Court in the early days of television itself, where they were quite hostile to the intrusion of the cameras.

00:48:51.000 And so that reasoning and those decisions have largely been overridden by subsequent developments in the law.

00:48:59.000 But that said, it always remains a concern about if jurors are exposed to too much information, particularly information.

00:49:07.000 That's of the kind that's likely to have a real big impact, the kind of thing that's hard to ignore, then it's hard not to prejudge the case.

00:49:16.000 And then it just becomes that much more difficult to find impartial jurors.

00:49:21.000 What we've seen in the case law developing since these early decisions and the hostility to television, first off, a recognition that this is universal.

00:49:31.000 This doesn't depend on TVs.

00:49:33.000 This is going to be an issue with newspaper coverage as well.

00:49:36.000 It's about information and access to it.

00:49:40.000 So, there's no real reason to be hostile to the television per se.

00:49:43.000 It's not adding any kind of problem like that.

00:49:46.000 But we've also seen a growing acceptance of this idea that the time to sort out those issues is in jury selection.

00:49:54.000 It's easy to lose perspective or to, I guess, project our interests and our viewpoints on the rest of the world and assume that everybody is paying attention to what we are and to the same degree of focus that we are.

00:50:11.000 But the reality is that those of us watching all of these intricate details of this case, we are the minority.

00:50:18.000 And so that's jury selection recognizes that, and that yes, there almost certainly will be people showing up asked to try the case who will know too much, will have too firm opinions.

00:50:30.000 But that's what the process is for to sort those people out so that we can find the ones who have spent the last week looking into the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey wedding instead.

00:50:41.000 Right, right.

00:50:44.000 Independence Day is the perfect time to talk about something we all care about, and that's freedom.

00:50:49.000 And yes, that includes medical freedom.

00:50:52.000 Our good friends and sponsors, All Family Pharmacy, they're running one of their biggest sales of the year from July 1st through July 7th.

00:50:58.000 It's buy one, get one free on ivermectin capsules, ivermectin cream, and others.

00:51:03.000 If you believe in being prepared, this is a great opportunity to stock up and save.

00:51:07.000 They make the process super simple, everything's handled online.

00:51:11.000 They only run sales like this a few times a year, so don't miss it.

00:51:14.000 Go to allfamilypharmacy.comslash Kirk before July 7th.

00:51:21.000 I mean, and by the way, there is this.

00:51:23.000 Mutual tension because in a case this high profile, you have a whole cottage industry of conspiracists that have invented all of this stuff.

00:51:31.000 And so I have the same concern, right?

00:51:33.000 So if the defense is going to raise the concern that this could unduly bias a potential jury, I have the same concern, but the inverse of it that if we don't get these facts transparently made available to the public, that there will leave a void, a chasm that will be filled by conspiracists.

00:51:50.000 And if that happens, then we could taint the jury in the other direction.

00:51:54.000 Absolutely.

00:51:54.000 I think that's very legitimate.

00:51:56.000 We had the evidentiary hearing on the defense's motion to ban the cameras.

00:52:01.000 They had done a public opinion survey.

00:52:04.000 It was done by the same guy, actually, who did a public opinion and survey for Brian Koberger over in Moscow, Idaho.

00:52:10.000 And so that was fresh in my mind when we watched him testify here.

00:52:15.000 And the disconnect between those two cases, the disparity in the public opinion, it's hard to overstate how significant it was.

00:52:24.000 In Brian Koberger's case, there was something like 98% of the community knew about it, overwhelming opinions of guilt.

00:52:33.000 And we're not seeing that in this particular case.

00:52:36.000 It was more like 50 50 in terms of pre judgment of guilt.

00:52:43.000 And so I think that the alternative theories are a big reason why, because from my perspective, if I were to put.

00:52:55.000 Put these probable cause affidavits side by side.

00:52:58.000 The amount of evidence we're dealing with here is overwhelmed by what was available in Brian Koberger's case at the same time in the process.

00:53:08.000 Well, I think we all understand where some of that's coming from, which is why what Jeffrey Nyman said, he, you know, when he was arguing on behalf of transparency, he said, Judge, you have tools at your disposal to deal with that.

00:53:21.000 And I believe you mean during jury selection.

00:53:23.000 So we kind of dealt with this with Jolene as well, who's a jury consultant.

00:53:27.000 She did.

00:53:28.000 OJ and she did.

00:53:30.000 Joellen.

00:53:30.000 Joellen Demetrius.

00:53:31.000 Yeah.

00:53:31.000 What did I say?

00:53:31.000 You said Jolene.

00:53:32.000 Joellen.

00:53:33.000 Like the Dolly Parton song.

00:53:33.000 Yeah, no.

00:53:34.000 Joellen.

00:53:34.000 Sorry.

00:53:35.000 Joellen Demetrius. 1.00

00:53:36.000 She did the OJ Simpson trial.

00:53:38.000 She did Enron.

00:53:39.000 She's done a bunch of big high profile cases.

00:53:41.000 Daniel Penny.

00:53:42.000 Daniel Penny.

00:53:43.000 She was saying, you know, kind of floating out some options that the judge would have at his disposal to sort of sort through the jury selection process.

00:53:50.000 So putting that hat on, Andrea, what would be at the judge's disposal as you see it?

00:53:57.000 Well, um, These can be challenging issues.

00:53:59.000 There's really no question about it because what you're trying to do is sort out bias.

00:54:04.000 But the problem is that bias isn't, we aren't always aware of it.

00:54:07.000 And so it isn't always something we can disclose and talk about.

00:54:10.000 That said, it's been extensively studied.

00:54:13.000 I'm sure that your jury consultant has done a massive amount of that type of thing.

00:54:17.000 And so there have been techniques developed to kind of be able to suss out things that might lead you to conclude that a person has prejudged a case, even if they aren't necessarily aware of it.

00:54:30.000 But generally speaking, the tools are you expand the jury pool.

00:54:34.000 If you normally call in 100 people for your jury veneer, we already know it's going to need to be more than that for this case just because Charlie Kirk is so high profile, the case is so high profile.

00:54:45.000 But say you normally call in 100.

00:54:47.000 Then maybe you call in 200 so that you know that you can get rid of more and still have enough remaining to come up with a jury.

00:54:54.000 You do pre jury questionnaires.

00:54:57.000 You expand the questioning.

00:54:58.000 You allow extended questioning about what they've been exposed to and what their thoughts are and their opinions.

00:55:05.000 You do individual questioning behind closed doors if you need to get into specifics, meaning closed doors, just meaning away from the other jurors.

00:55:14.000 So you're not tainting them with extraneous information, but to talk to them real specifically about.

00:55:20.000 Maybe what they have seen, what they have read, details that they picked up, and things like that.

00:55:25.000 And so, just getting the largest number of people available and getting as much information from them as you can is going to increase the likelihood that you'll be able to find 12 to maybe 16 for the alternates that are going to be ignorant enough about the case or just open enough about the case that they'll be able to judge it fairly based on what they see in the courtroom.

00:55:51.000 We can only hope.

00:55:53.000 Andrea, we have a few more minutes here.

00:55:55.000 So, a thing that really stood out to all of us here, of course, is near the end of the hearing where Michael Burt, one of the defense attorneys, while they're discussing whether they're going to see this John Madden style video of things, he tears into Erica Kirk specifically by name, talks about her holding these press conferences, which never happened.

00:56:18.000 Which, yeah, exactly, doesn't happen.

00:56:19.000 Treating the prosecutors like they're her personal attorneys.

00:56:22.000 It's a really quite personal attack.

00:56:25.000 We were talking about that with Graham as well.

00:56:26.000 And I guess what I'm wondering for you is first of all, have you seen something like this before?

00:56:32.000 It seems very unusual.

00:56:34.000 What's the strategic reasoning of this?

00:56:37.000 Just what do you make of this that it happened?

00:56:40.000 Is it as appalling to you as it is to us?

00:56:43.000 And it's okay if you say this is more common than you think.

00:56:46.000 No, actually, I was very surprised.

00:56:48.000 I was quite taken aback myself because I handle victims with kid gloves.

00:56:53.000 It's not in your interest the overwhelming majority of the time.

00:56:57.000 To be aggressive with a victim.

00:56:59.000 People are naturally sympathetic to victims of crime.

00:57:02.000 And this is a woman who lost her husband.

00:57:04.000 Her children have lost their father.

00:57:07.000 And so it's hard not to have a massive amount of sympathy for that.

00:57:12.000 And so it can really, really backfire among the people who are more inclined to appreciate what Erica has gone through to see her being attacked like this.

00:57:28.000 I have a hard time really seeing what the strategy is.

00:57:31.000 Well, I think it was a mask off moment, Andrea.

00:57:35.000 I think he just forgot himself for a moment.

00:57:38.000 I mean, he's an elderly man and he was probably getting frustrated.

00:57:43.000 He was probably focusing on this really mundane minutiae for so long that he just, I mean, it was egregious to me watching it.

00:57:52.000 I was very upset.

00:57:53.000 That's charitable.

00:57:55.000 I'm worried that his strategy is, as you said, that apparently.

00:57:59.000 In the local area, people are more 50 50.

00:58:03.000 I'm worried he is, in fact, pandering to.

00:58:06.000 There's basically a cottage industry.

00:58:08.000 People have made entire careers as podcasters and whatnot, basically turning Erica into this soap opera villain.

00:58:15.000 Well, and by the way, to do it without any factual basis, there was no press conferences.

00:58:21.000 Accusing the Kirk family of treating the state as their personal lawyers was just that's not true.

00:58:28.000 They don't have access to the state evidence.

00:58:31.000 This is why they're asking for the ability to see this video that they haven't seen yet.

00:58:37.000 So the whole thing was just absurd.

00:58:39.000 This guy, that's him, and he was Lyle Menendez's.

00:58:43.000 Uh, lawyer, uh, so but Andrew, you're saying this was very unusual.

00:58:47.000 I can't say it's unusual in the sense that you know, no lawyers do this, there are lawyers that do this.

00:58:53.000 Um, but I would have to say, I don't expect good lawyers to do this, I don't expect lawyers with his kind of experience, uh, to take this kind of approach with a victim.

00:59:03.000 Uh, if he has complaints, and he may very well, it's I mean, yes, Erica has made some statements, uh, they're not press conferences, you know, it's it's I think that the characterization of it.

00:59:16.000 That is so particularly nasty.

00:59:19.000 And that's the revealing part.

00:59:20.000 You do have to sometimes talk about difficult facts with victims.

00:59:26.000 This is very common to have to talk about difficult facts with victims.

00:59:31.000 But the way to do that respectfully and in a way that is just less likely to hit us like this has is to keep it factual, to keep it accurate, to not color it with.

00:59:48.000 Accusatory types of tones and characterizations and stuff.

00:59:53.000 So, yeah, I was very taken aback.

00:59:57.000 It felt very passive aggressive and like a bullying tactic.

01:00:01.000 So, is there any way that if this happens again, I mean, I would be in favor of somebody lodging a complaint to the judge.

01:00:09.000 And if this happens again, for there to be potential sanctions, I don't know.

01:00:12.000 Is there anything like that at the judge's disposal?

01:00:15.000 I don't see why not under the constitutional victim's rights that are afforded to her.

01:00:20.000 That includes the right to be treated with respect.

01:00:23.000 And dignity.

01:00:24.000 And so, if she feels that that's not being met, it seems to me that she would have the right under the Utah Constitution to bring that to the judge's attention.

01:00:34.000 Good to know.

01:00:35.000 Andrea Burkhart, thank you for joining us again.

01:00:36.000 We're coming up at the end of the hour and we're trying to keep these things tight.

01:00:40.000 Final minute here.

01:00:43.000 Anything that we missed that you think was significant today that you want to draw our attention to?

01:00:47.000 Well, I mean, there really was a massive amount of evidence.

01:00:54.000 Like I said, this is really where the links were being made, the connections.

01:01:01.000 What I would say, I guess, is that my optimism out of today came from the fact that when we left court last night, we had a much lower expectation of what we were going to see today, particularly as it relates to that interview from Mr. Twiggs.

01:01:22.000 And so the fact that we were able to make it through today and we actually got to see something at all, like, Leaving yesterday, we weren't going to see anything.

01:01:30.000 We were just going to have audio recordings.

01:01:33.000 This suggests to me, it's just, I am an optimist, but it does suggest to me that the judge is trying to course correct.

01:01:42.000 He's recognizing not always going to be perfect, but he's also not so grounded in his ego that he's just going to dig into a decision that he's made, whether it's right or not.

01:01:53.000 I agree.

01:01:54.000 I think seeing him change course was really encouraging.

01:01:58.000 Andrea Burkhart, check her out on Substack, on X, on YouTube.

01:02:01.000 Thank you so much.

01:02:02.000 We appreciate it.

01:02:07.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 10, 2026

Tyler Robinson Hearing Aftermath: Day 4

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript