00:00:56.000Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
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00:01:50.000But other than that, it was a lot of stuff we had seen before, a lot of stuff we knew at least was in the record.
00:01:56.000This is the first day, I feel, where we got a very large amount of new information, either images of things that we'd only heard stated existed, or in the case of Lance Twiggs, we got actual testimony from a person we had not heard from before.
00:03:26.000And he successfully got a mistrial on the first go round of that case.
00:03:30.000So this guy attacks, I mean, a completely inappropriate attack targeting of the Kirk family for wanting to see the enhanced video of Tyler Robinson on campus.
00:03:43.000Remember, there was that back and forth in day two that bled into day three.
00:03:49.000And they wanted to see the enhanced version.
00:03:51.000And we call it the John Madden style version where they zoom in, they circle it.
00:04:06.000Jeff Nyman, total hero today, by the way.
00:04:08.000He successfully argued on behalf of the Kirk family to get the Twigs video, much of it restored, a pretty massive reversal from the original ruling last night.
00:04:20.000The indication was that a lot of it was going to be redacted, and then the judge went in our direction significantly.
00:06:10.000I think of all the clips today, I was in a really weird headspace after watching that, crying, wished he hadn't done it.
00:06:17.000And the senselessness of this act of evil, just how unnecessary it was, how this kid didn't even feel after doing it like he was convinced that he should have done it.
00:06:50.000And instead, you get this feeling that this was almost a fleeting obsession, a whim, and he immediately regretted it after he did it, either because he realized it was evil, we can hope, or just because he realized he'd thrown his life away.
00:07:44.000It was only a half day, and the defense did a really good job yesterday of just kind of dragging it out to where nothing really got done.
00:07:53.000Obviously, over this Lance Twiggs video.
00:07:57.000What we did see, I heard the clip play.
00:08:00.000Yeah, that was a really bombshell clip there.
00:08:03.000I said it in my recap on my show this morning.
00:08:06.000The defense is obviously scared to death of this 35, 37 minute video of Lance Twiggs, which is why they fought so hard to get so much of it to where even us in the courtroom, we couldn't see it.
00:08:26.000The defense was getting their head beat in all day.
00:08:29.000I mean, if I can just be honest about it, this was evidence after evidence after evidence after evidence.
00:08:36.000And you really felt that with the defense.
00:08:38.000This Michael Burke guy coming out of nowhere and attacking the victim, Erica.
00:08:55.000But one person in this whole thing, There is no question about innocent or guilt.
00:09:02.000And that's the fact that Charlie Kirk was brutally murdered and his widow is in the courtroom.
00:09:08.000And this Michael Burt lawyer guy, because the defense is getting their head kicked in during this case, loses his composure and he throws direct attacks at the widow of Charlie Kirk.
00:09:23.000It was the craziest thing I've ever seen.
00:09:28.000I want to talk to you about an issue so many Americans face.
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00:11:08.000We're asking the court to keep focus on the purpose of this hearing.
00:11:13.000And as the justice has said in the Estes case, the purpose of a trial is to determine the defendant's guilt.
00:11:21.000It's not to educate the public or the victim's family or the world on what evidence the government or the state has.
00:11:29.000At some point, I think the court has to return to the purpose of these hearings, which is to expeditiously hear the evidence and then determine probable cause.
00:11:41.000And I want to point out to the court, Ms. Kirk has been very adept at holding press conferences at which she has revealed evidence.
00:11:49.000She has represented that the state is her attorney.
00:11:54.000She has access to all the evidence that the state has publicized and that the media and her own lawyer argues is already in the public domain.
00:12:04.000So they're perfectly free to go outside this courtroom under the court's protective order.
00:12:10.000They're free to go out and hold press conferences and announce to the world outside the courtroom what they think the evidence is.
00:12:17.000They have the availability of that evidence.
00:12:20.000But the court's role, I think, at some point is to exercise some control, move the case forward, and especially when we have witness availability problems.
00:12:28.000And I'd ask the court that whatever the court does, if you're going to allow revisiting or replaying of evidence for the sole purpose of informing the world or Ms. Kirk or anybody else, that the court do it at the end of the process and not at this point where we will be deprived of our ability to call this witness because she has to be done today.
00:12:49.000Okay, Mr. Burt, you just, I mean, what a.
00:13:32.000This is the state versus Tyler Robinson.
00:13:36.000And look, they give us a whole speech every time we go in there about the decorum and how we in the audience are not allowed to make faces.
00:17:56.000Ms. Kirk and the family have their representatives.
00:17:58.000There's a completely distortion of reality that was just put forth.
00:18:03.000And this isn't about educating anybody about anything.
00:18:06.000This is about allowing the family to see the evidence that's been gathered after a 10-month investigation in which a father, a husband was assassinated.
00:18:43.000I guess the judge is going to make a final determination about that tomorrow, whether or not the family can see the John Madden style video that we're talking about, the enhanced zoom in with lines and circles and that sort of thing.
00:21:03.000And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other.
00:21:13.000When ideas meet respect, good things happen.
00:21:16.000On TikTok, you can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father explaining.
00:21:22.000Sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers, viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond.
00:21:27.000TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding.
00:21:31.000You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world.
00:21:35.000TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real.
00:21:44.000And then, of course, we saw previously in the other days the compilation video of him on campus, and then he's asked about surveillance.
00:21:52.000Still, images taken from surveillance video, and I thought this was a really powerful part, Graham, where you hear Twig say that looks like Tyler.
00:22:01.000He identifies and recognizes the person in the images.
00:23:01.000This is a press release about this event.
00:23:05.000And here on the screen, you see these, it looks like there's two rows of three images.
00:23:11.000Do you recognize the person in these images?
00:23:17.000I wouldn't say with 100% certainty just because of camera quality, but that looks like him in terms of the shoes he's wearing, the sunglasses.
00:23:25.000I don't think I'd specifically seen him wearing that hat, but he was usually wearing a hat.
00:23:51.000Graham, I've incredibly been told by the internets and the social medias that none of these videos from the surveillance cameras on campus.
00:24:02.000Determined that it was actually Tyler Robinson on campus.
00:24:08.000Well, if you listen to the crazies on the internet, they will say that every piece of evidence that the state has introduced has made the state look worse.
00:24:18.000And that's what we're dealing with right here.
00:25:34.000As frustrating as this judicial process is, I get it.
00:25:39.000The evidence is truly becoming overwhelming.
00:25:42.000And like I said, you could really kind of feel a shift in the courtroom today where it really felt like the defense was.
00:25:50.000I mean, even when they went up and they called their witness, all the defense really did was just the same thing they did with the FBI DNA testing was talking about, well, peer reviewed studies of flaws.
00:26:06.000Well, we've got just as many peer reviewed studies that are for it.
00:26:09.000Well, what about this and what about that?
00:26:11.000And then the state goes up and said, Is this not used nationwide?
00:26:23.000Are you familiar with this 2009 study that poked holes in the, you know, it was like so painfully, excessively in depth for, and by the way, this was again our good buddy Michael Burt that got chastised by Judge Graff multiple times, got corrected, continued on and Graff.
00:27:58.000September 10th, was this that he asked about the Dremel?
00:28:02.000I don't remember because he'd been talking about the huntingslash camping trip for a couple months, but I don't remember when he was specifically asking to engrave the bullets.
00:28:17.000So, are we talking like a year before?
00:28:21.000It would have been, I'd say, at most a month before this was when he was asking.
00:28:26.000At most a month before, he's asking about this tool to engrave on bullets and then.
00:28:32.000The next witness we had, this Faumuina.
00:28:37.000I'm not sure how you say it exactly, but she was really detailing all the stuff they found when they found the rifle, when they found the cartridges, what they found at his home.
00:30:12.000Bella Chow is a famous anti fascist song from Italy or whatever.
00:30:17.000Hey, fascist, catch all of this stuff, which sort of boggles the mind because remember, they went through that whole rigmarole with David Englehart's letter establishing that Charlie was a Christian and conservative, which we all know.
00:30:28.000And then you have the bullets here that actually reinforce the fact this enhancement charge that it was essentially a politically motivated assassination.
00:30:41.000You know, I may be mistaken about this, so do not.
00:30:45.000Hold me to this because I, again, I'm not a lawyer, but I think that that's going to be part of when they have these briefings that they're talking about.
00:30:54.000I think that the state said, because this was brought up, like the religious thing and political thing.
00:31:01.000And I think that they're going to perhaps adjust maybe the wording a little bit.
00:31:06.000Like that's part of like this briefing thing that they want to do because the defense wants to challenge the counts and all this.
00:31:14.000So I think they're going to correct that because you're right.
00:31:18.000Religion and politics have intersected for years, especially over the past 10 years.
00:31:25.000Why was Charlie targeted, in my opinion, allegedly for legal purposes, by Tyler Robinson?
00:31:35.000Charlie had open debate on political and religious matters, specifically that were anti what Tyler Robinson's lifestyle was and what Tyler Robinson's lifestyle included.
00:31:49.000And even in those text messages to Lance Twiggs, saying he couldn't deal with Charlie's hatred anymore, and some hate can't be.
00:33:10.000I just, again, you know, all of this from the defense is a head scratcher because they, how long do they take on the David Englehart letter?
00:33:33.000Well, I spoke, a friend of mine who's an attorney actually commented on that to me that.
00:33:38.000We did have the very extended attempt to keep this from getting introduced into the record, too much of this visual evidence, too much of the Twigs interview.
00:33:46.000But once it was getting in, once they were playing the Twigs interview where he's saying, I spoke to him and he confessed to this, they ask nothing.
00:33:54.000They want to get through it as quickly as possible.
00:33:57.000And instead, they're going to have agonizingly long cross examination on stuff that is peripheral and boring, frankly, like the David Englehart letter.
00:34:08.000Or the arcana of this, of what type of bullet fragments were found, and analysis of that.
00:34:14.000And it's kind of, they want you dedicating more of your headspace to that confusing, difficult stuff, and as little headspace as possible to Tyler Robinson confessed to this multiple times to multiple people.
00:34:41.000Do you know what that is referring to?
00:34:43.000Yeah, they're referring to 1.1 is swabs of the stock and grips of the rifle, and then 1.4 is swabs of the bolt of the rifle with possible ridge detail andor smudging.
00:34:53.000The DNA profiles are at least one trillion times more likely if they originated from Tyler Robinson, Exhibit 7.1, as a contributor to the major components and three unrelated unknown individuals than if they originated from four unrelated unknown individuals.
00:35:10.000All right, so now I just wanted to play that because, again, to Blake's point, there's all these.
00:35:14.000Big top line items, DNA, confession, text messages, all this stuff.
00:35:20.000The timing lines up exactly right on all this stuff.
00:35:43.000I'm actually trying to book him for our show tomorrow during day five.
00:35:49.000But he put out a tweet, and I just want to make sure we address it.
00:35:52.000So he's looking at the photos shown in court of the type of bullets, okay?
00:35:57.000He said Remington headstamp on the case, and despite the somewhat low resolution on the photo, you can see the somewhat blunted nature of the projectile's tip.
00:36:08.000This is a Remington core locked soft point round.
00:36:25.000He says it's specifically designed to deform, slow down, and prevent an exit wound.
00:36:30.000Available at literally every single gun store and sporting goods store that sells ammunition.
00:36:36.000He goes on, Graham, he says, in fact, 16 out of the 17 30-odd six varieties manufactured by Remington use some type of expanding, deforming, or fragmenting bullet.
00:37:23.000A lot of everything, everything that's been introduced by the state eliminates andor totally, totally refutes the conspiracy theories by people that are acting in not good faith.
00:37:37.000They're only trying to go after innocent people.
00:37:42.000They're trying to destroy lives for the purposes of clicks.
00:37:45.000Clicks mean more views, views means more money.
00:39:00.000And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other.
00:39:10.000When ideas meet respect, good things happen.
00:39:14.000Explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers, viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond.
00:39:23.000TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding.
00:39:27.000You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world.
00:39:32.000TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real.
00:39:44.000Following this case extremely closely.
00:39:47.000And if you are following along with us, she was also on the show on Monday night after day one.
00:40:24.000I think up to today, the evidence is building and the picture is becoming clearer, but it was today that really pulled all the pieces together and drew the most direct connections between the ballistics and the statements and so forth.
00:40:40.000We now have a way to tie this individual that we're seeing on the camera and this firearm that was recovered with.
00:40:50.000Tyler Robinson himself, by virtue of this evidence today.
00:40:56.000Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of emotional parts, I think, for today, for us from our POV.
00:41:02.000And so I'm going to try and stay out of that because you're very good at being dispassionate.
00:41:08.000But I will just say one final point on that.
00:41:10.000The fact that Lance Twiggs claims that he doesn't remember talking about Charlie with Tyler Robinson, I found horrifying to hear that it was just.
00:41:21.000I think we said earlier, it feels like his description of it was almost like a whim.
00:41:47.000Let's fast forward to the end because Blake and I were just talking about this, and I want to go back through some of.
00:41:52.000The details of the day, but at the end, they were having this deliberation back and forth about timing and what they call it a bond or a bind over.
00:42:02.000It was, they spent the last half hour discussing this, setting a hearing date, it seems, for September 1st.
00:42:08.000They had a very bizarre back and forth about should we have a page count cap on our briefs, and one proposed 30, one proposed 40 pages, and Judge Graff, in his Solomon like wisdom, decreed 35 pages, even though he noted it was an odd number.
00:42:22.000That is a very good description of Judge. Graph.
00:42:26.000And I guess I didn't know what they were talking about.
00:42:28.000So maybe you could explain some of that to us.
00:42:31.000So, bindover is the word that they use to describe the defendant being required to answer to a jury, to formally answer the charge through the trial process, which is what this preliminary hearing is about.
00:42:47.000Is the charge justified in moving forward to trial or not?
00:42:51.000And so that's what the bindover decision is.
00:42:53.000What I found interesting about today and that whole conversation is that, in my experience anyway, although granted we don't do these types of hearings in Washington, but I've You know, watched a fair amount of court, it's not really that common to have extended briefing about probable cause.
00:43:12.000Probable cause is not a particularly difficult standard to meet.
00:43:16.000And there's just a lot of ways to get there.
00:43:20.000In this particular case, as well, in Utah, there's a lot of limitations to the judge's ability to question the evidence.
00:43:29.000He has to just kind of take it at face value at this stage because it's for the jury to decide if they believe it, if the science is good, if somebody is credible, and all of those types of things.
00:43:39.000So, it's not normally the type of thing that requires 35 pages of briefing.
00:43:52.000Judge is, again, giving them every opportunity to make the record that they see they need to.
00:43:59.000But having said that, I have a hard time myself just imagining what is going to take 35 pages for the defense to say about this case.
00:44:08.000Yeah, I felt like all they basically did was try and obstruct.
00:44:13.000The presentation of evidence that seemed pretty straightforward to the layman's eyes out here.
00:44:17.000I want to know the process here, Andrea.
00:44:19.000So they were talking about tomorrow, they think it's going to take a half day, and then there might be some stuff that draws it into the, I don't know, a couple hours after lunch break.
00:45:42.000Now, the way around that, I think, would be if Judge Graff did what would be extremely atypical for him.
00:45:49.000And that is the rule on probable cause from the bench at this September 1st hearing.
00:45:56.000But he, like everyone, he's been very careful.
00:45:59.000He's taken the care to make sure that, one, he is entertaining the arguments of the parties, but also that he is documenting his decisions and his thought process so that that's in our record.
00:46:12.000It's available for review for everybody.
00:46:22.000If he did rule from the bench, which apparently is at his discretion to do so, I don't see why that would be a problem given the, you know, breadth and depth of evidence that was just presented to him.
00:46:34.000Does that sort of the reason he may not choose to do that is to look impartial, to look fair, and to protect this case from appeal down the road?
00:46:44.000Is that kind of the logic for not doing that?
00:46:47.000Yeah, I think it's all of those things.
00:46:53.000He doesn't have a perfect record on transparency, but he has certainly, I should say, maybe he's not a maximalist as I am, but he has certainly appreciated and recognized the importance of it.
00:47:06.000And so the thought process, being transparent about that, I think is something that's important to him to make sure not just that we know what the ruling is, but why he reached that ruling.
00:47:17.000And so I think also, like you said, the fairness to the defense so that they're on notice and if they take any issue with it, they can dispute it, they can appeal it.
00:47:28.000And then there's no concern about somebody's rights being trampled.
00:48:34.000The issue with Estes and Rideau goes to televising and the presence of the cameras.
00:48:40.000And these are rather old precedents from the US Supreme Court in the early days of television itself, where they were quite hostile to the intrusion of the cameras.
00:48:51.000And so that reasoning and those decisions have largely been overridden by subsequent developments in the law.
00:48:59.000But that said, it always remains a concern about if jurors are exposed to too much information, particularly information.
00:49:07.000That's of the kind that's likely to have a real big impact, the kind of thing that's hard to ignore, then it's hard not to prejudge the case.
00:49:16.000And then it just becomes that much more difficult to find impartial jurors.
00:49:21.000What we've seen in the case law developing since these early decisions and the hostility to television, first off, a recognition that this is universal.
00:49:33.000This is going to be an issue with newspaper coverage as well.
00:49:36.000It's about information and access to it.
00:49:40.000So, there's no real reason to be hostile to the television per se.
00:49:43.000It's not adding any kind of problem like that.
00:49:46.000But we've also seen a growing acceptance of this idea that the time to sort out those issues is in jury selection.
00:49:54.000It's easy to lose perspective or to, I guess, project our interests and our viewpoints on the rest of the world and assume that everybody is paying attention to what we are and to the same degree of focus that we are.
00:50:11.000But the reality is that those of us watching all of these intricate details of this case, we are the minority.
00:50:18.000And so that's jury selection recognizes that, and that yes, there almost certainly will be people showing up asked to try the case who will know too much, will have too firm opinions.
00:50:30.000But that's what the process is for to sort those people out so that we can find the ones who have spent the last week looking into the Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey wedding instead.
00:50:44.000Independence Day is the perfect time to talk about something we all care about, and that's freedom.
00:50:49.000And yes, that includes medical freedom.
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00:51:21.000I mean, and by the way, there is this.
00:51:23.000Mutual tension because in a case this high profile, you have a whole cottage industry of conspiracists that have invented all of this stuff.
00:51:31.000And so I have the same concern, right?
00:51:33.000So if the defense is going to raise the concern that this could unduly bias a potential jury, I have the same concern, but the inverse of it that if we don't get these facts transparently made available to the public, that there will leave a void, a chasm that will be filled by conspiracists.
00:51:50.000And if that happens, then we could taint the jury in the other direction.
00:51:56.000We had the evidentiary hearing on the defense's motion to ban the cameras.
00:52:01.000They had done a public opinion survey.
00:52:04.000It was done by the same guy, actually, who did a public opinion and survey for Brian Koberger over in Moscow, Idaho.
00:52:10.000And so that was fresh in my mind when we watched him testify here.
00:52:15.000And the disconnect between those two cases, the disparity in the public opinion, it's hard to overstate how significant it was.
00:52:24.000In Brian Koberger's case, there was something like 98% of the community knew about it, overwhelming opinions of guilt.
00:52:33.000And we're not seeing that in this particular case.
00:52:36.000It was more like 50 50 in terms of pre judgment of guilt.
00:52:43.000And so I think that the alternative theories are a big reason why, because from my perspective, if I were to put.
00:52:55.000Put these probable cause affidavits side by side.
00:52:58.000The amount of evidence we're dealing with here is overwhelmed by what was available in Brian Koberger's case at the same time in the process.
00:53:08.000Well, I think we all understand where some of that's coming from, which is why what Jeffrey Nyman said, he, you know, when he was arguing on behalf of transparency, he said, Judge, you have tools at your disposal to deal with that.
00:53:21.000And I believe you mean during jury selection.
00:53:23.000So we kind of dealt with this with Jolene as well, who's a jury consultant.
00:53:43.000She was saying, you know, kind of floating out some options that the judge would have at his disposal to sort of sort through the jury selection process.
00:53:50.000So putting that hat on, Andrea, what would be at the judge's disposal as you see it?
00:53:57.000Well, um, These can be challenging issues.
00:53:59.000There's really no question about it because what you're trying to do is sort out bias.
00:54:04.000But the problem is that bias isn't, we aren't always aware of it.
00:54:07.000And so it isn't always something we can disclose and talk about.
00:54:10.000That said, it's been extensively studied.
00:54:13.000I'm sure that your jury consultant has done a massive amount of that type of thing.
00:54:17.000And so there have been techniques developed to kind of be able to suss out things that might lead you to conclude that a person has prejudged a case, even if they aren't necessarily aware of it.
00:54:30.000But generally speaking, the tools are you expand the jury pool.
00:54:34.000If you normally call in 100 people for your jury veneer, we already know it's going to need to be more than that for this case just because Charlie Kirk is so high profile, the case is so high profile.
00:54:58.000You allow extended questioning about what they've been exposed to and what their thoughts are and their opinions.
00:55:05.000You do individual questioning behind closed doors if you need to get into specifics, meaning closed doors, just meaning away from the other jurors.
00:55:14.000So you're not tainting them with extraneous information, but to talk to them real specifically about.
00:55:20.000Maybe what they have seen, what they have read, details that they picked up, and things like that.
00:55:25.000And so, just getting the largest number of people available and getting as much information from them as you can is going to increase the likelihood that you'll be able to find 12 to maybe 16 for the alternates that are going to be ignorant enough about the case or just open enough about the case that they'll be able to judge it fairly based on what they see in the courtroom.
00:55:53.000Andrea, we have a few more minutes here.
00:55:55.000So, a thing that really stood out to all of us here, of course, is near the end of the hearing where Michael Burt, one of the defense attorneys, while they're discussing whether they're going to see this John Madden style video of things, he tears into Erica Kirk specifically by name, talks about her holding these press conferences, which never happened.
00:57:07.000And so it's hard not to have a massive amount of sympathy for that.
00:57:12.000And so it can really, really backfire among the people who are more inclined to appreciate what Erica has gone through to see her being attacked like this.
00:57:28.000I have a hard time really seeing what the strategy is.
00:57:31.000Well, I think it was a mask off moment, Andrea.
00:57:35.000I think he just forgot himself for a moment.
00:57:38.000I mean, he's an elderly man and he was probably getting frustrated.
00:57:43.000He was probably focusing on this really mundane minutiae for so long that he just, I mean, it was egregious to me watching it.
00:58:39.000This guy, that's him, and he was Lyle Menendez's.
00:58:43.000Uh, lawyer, uh, so but Andrew, you're saying this was very unusual.
00:58:47.000I can't say it's unusual in the sense that you know, no lawyers do this, there are lawyers that do this.
00:58:53.000Um, but I would have to say, I don't expect good lawyers to do this, I don't expect lawyers with his kind of experience, uh, to take this kind of approach with a victim.
00:59:03.000Uh, if he has complaints, and he may very well, it's I mean, yes, Erica has made some statements, uh, they're not press conferences, you know, it's it's I think that the characterization of it.
00:59:20.000You do have to sometimes talk about difficult facts with victims.
00:59:26.000This is very common to have to talk about difficult facts with victims.
00:59:31.000But the way to do that respectfully and in a way that is just less likely to hit us like this has is to keep it factual, to keep it accurate, to not color it with.
00:59:48.000Accusatory types of tones and characterizations and stuff.
01:00:24.000And so, if she feels that that's not being met, it seems to me that she would have the right under the Utah Constitution to bring that to the judge's attention.
01:00:43.000Anything that we missed that you think was significant today that you want to draw our attention to?
01:00:47.000Well, I mean, there really was a massive amount of evidence.
01:00:54.000Like I said, this is really where the links were being made, the connections.
01:01:01.000What I would say, I guess, is that my optimism out of today came from the fact that when we left court last night, we had a much lower expectation of what we were going to see today, particularly as it relates to that interview from Mr. Twiggs.
01:01:22.000And so the fact that we were able to make it through today and we actually got to see something at all, like, Leaving yesterday, we weren't going to see anything.
01:01:30.000We were just going to have audio recordings.
01:01:33.000This suggests to me, it's just, I am an optimist, but it does suggest to me that the judge is trying to course correct.
01:01:42.000He's recognizing not always going to be perfect, but he's also not so grounded in his ego that he's just going to dig into a decision that he's made, whether it's right or not.