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00:01:21.000We're monitoring the second day of the preliminary hearing in the state of Utah versus Tyler Robinson.
00:01:27.000A huge, huge moment just happened where the compilation video of Tyler Robinson visiting UVU campus four times, Blake and I were watching it.
00:01:37.000Our jaws dropped when you're looking at.
00:01:39.000The time that you know Charlie was shot, and the time that this individual went up on campus and they track him, you know, in the parking garage across the different areas of campus up onto the roof.
00:01:52.000It was a really, really powerful moment that the judge allowed that to be seen by the media.
00:01:57.000There was a back and forth between the media and the defense and the prosecution of the defense.
00:02:02.000We're finally getting evidence that we've heard for months exists, and we're finally getting to see it.
00:02:08.000So, and now there is a sort of John Madden style.
00:02:11.000Video where they're zooming in and putting circle marks where they want you to kind of see the suspect walking on campus and wherever else.
00:02:20.000And so the judge now has not allowed the John Madden style video seen to be seen by the public, but he's reviewing it right now.
00:02:28.000So we're going to throw back into the courtroom again, a very, very powerful moment that just happened.
00:02:34.000When we hit breaks, we have guests standing by that are going to help us chime in.
00:02:38.000We got Will Chamberlain, Jay Town, both lawyers, and both going to help us.
00:03:09.000Thanks for being on standby with us this morning.
00:03:12.000That was a Continuation this morning with that same witness.
00:03:19.000They had blocked, the judge had blocked the sort of John Madden style video from being submitted as evidence and being broadcast to the public.
00:03:26.000The state, the prosecution in this instance, went back and got the RAW and showed a compilation of the RAW video without any zoom ins.
00:03:34.000The judge allowed that to be broadcast.
00:03:38.000What did you see when, in what I believe is the most powerful moment of evidence so far in the case?
00:03:45.000Well, I mean, it seems pretty clear they have him dead to rights on the fact that he was there, you know, four times in a little over, you know, well, I guess once a week before and then three times day of.
00:03:57.000And I mean, the fact that they have him there, you know, in the morning and then they have him there right before the shooting, and then you have the video obviously a little smaller with the person who's moving towards him, but it's, I mean, it's pretty clearly Robinson, too.
00:04:09.000This is, I mean, extremely compelling video evidence.
00:04:13.000And obviously, this is not going to be the end of it, right?
00:04:15.000You know, the video evidence alone is damning, but we've got all the, you know, physical and forensic evidence, too.
00:04:20.000So I think those who were, I think the big mistake that maybe those who were skeptical were making was assuming that.
00:04:29.000Only the evidence that had been shown within 48 hours of the shooting that was used to identify and apprehend Robinson, but that was going to be the only evidence that the prosecution was able to present.
00:04:40.000And that's certainly clearly not the case, even after just this brief moment here.
00:05:21.000And they even say in one of the videos, when this person gets on the roof, they say he rolls over the railing.
00:05:28.000He doesn't really clamber over it, he kind of has to roll himself over it to get onto the rooftop.
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00:09:17.000They have video of him walking normally and running at like normally afterwards, is my understanding.
00:09:23.000People, you know, that doesn't make sense unless, and especially the fact that the timing is happening right before the shooting.
00:09:29.000Like, why is this person walking like that if he's not carrying a rifle or, I'm sorry, the barrel of a rifle in his pants?
00:09:37.000And again, I mean, the fact, again, it's the timing and the combination of evidence here.
00:09:42.000Like, obviously, he's trying, you know, he's now.
00:09:44.000Wearing different clothing in sunglasses and a baseball cap, trying to hide and change the appearance of his identity, um, and with this bizarre physical gait, uh, you know, and it's like he's not.
00:09:58.000I mean, think about it here's another way to think about it, right?
00:10:00.000Like, say he was this was just some random person who was injured, like, you know, theoretically, then why isn't he on crutches?
00:10:06.000Why doesn't he have something that'll assist in his mobility?
00:10:09.000You know, one of those little leg scooters everybody has, like, no, this is, I mean, there's a lot of none of this makes sense, uh, and is easily explicable.
00:10:18.000Like to a normal person, like clearly there's something in his pants, and that is a gun.
00:10:25.000And as he said, they're saying, How do you know it's Tyler Robinson?
00:10:28.000And first, he says basically the same shape of person as they had earlier.
00:10:33.000And he said they had the same shoes, so changed his shirt, changed out of his shorts to get into his, you know, basically long sleeve, long pants, so you can hide stuff under your clothes, but still has the same shoes, wearing sunglasses, otherwise the same shape person.
00:10:49.000And of course, as we know, He then walks to the roof of that student center, gets onto it.
00:10:55.000We have this, and I think this is the clip where you can see the timestamp again.
00:10:59.000All of us know Charlie was killed at 12 23.
00:11:03.000We like, we'll never get that number out of our head.
00:11:42.000And again, in the top left corner, the individual is now seen running across the rooftop of the Losey building to what would be the southwest corner of the building, crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.
00:14:02.000That footage, at least that little bit of security footage, that was published pretty, I think that was published all the way back 48 hours after the shooting by the FBI when they were looking for the guy and they were sort of presenting the evidence of why they thought this was the guy.
00:14:20.000And I thought it was, you know, perhaps one of those things where once you understand that it's like, oh, yeah, clearly it's this person.
00:14:27.000Right, like whoever you know, you have the timing in the background, you know, that's when the shot just happened, and then you have a guy scrambling across the roof and dropping himself down to like clearly escape.
00:14:36.000Like, if he was, you know, a normal person, say just again, like, let's try and construct sort of innocent explanations, right?
00:14:42.000Why is there a normal person on the roof?
00:14:44.000Well, they wouldn't run and try and drop down 10 feet, uh, they would just go down the go back the way they came, they would walk down the stairs if they're just a normal person going about their day and for whatever reason decided to take a brief excursion to the roof for sightseeing or something.
00:14:57.000Uh, but no, this is a person who's running.
00:16:03.000So that was an interesting back and forth.
00:16:05.000We kind of saw some of the, I think, from.
00:16:10.000Kathy Nestor, the defense attorney's cross examination of that witness, you know, she's obviously trying to poke holes in some of the ring camera footage, which I think is fairly flimsy.
00:16:23.000I mean, trying to remember what cars drove in front of a person's house would be extremely difficult.
00:16:28.000And then you actually do have the ring footage, which is what it is, right?
00:16:33.000So I don't know what they would make of that or if that would be compelling evidence to a judge or jury.
00:16:40.000Then you see the cross examination by.
00:16:44.000The state going back kind of and reacting to some of Kathy Nestor's cross.
00:16:52.000And it felt like there was, he did a fairly thorough job of kind of plugging in all those holes.
00:16:58.000You know, they keep talking about this bullet casing not being found on the roof.
00:17:06.000That has been sort of dealt with as well that if you have a bolt action rifle and you only fire one shot, it doesn't eject the casing that was found.
00:17:15.000The most important thing, I mean, we got that a little bit, is that they established, they basically asked them, did you have any suspects before Tyler Robinson turned himself in?
00:17:29.000I think they might be setting it up as in, you didn't really deduce that it was Tyler Robinson until this happened.
00:17:35.000But the flip side of this is that's absolutely devastating to people who are claiming, oh, he didn't turn himself in, the weirder stuff that he was coerced into doing this.
00:17:47.000Yeah, and that was actually kind of the, I think, a moment that we, you could skip over and kind of not hear it, but the defense themselves is admitting that Tyler Robinson turned himself in.
00:18:02.000So, you know, what would compel him to do that besides being guilty of the crime, of the alleged crime here, I don't know what you could surmise from that.
00:18:17.000There was also this interesting moment where.
00:18:22.000Talking about like some of the camera footage that there were multiple angles or something, SOT 12.
00:18:30.000I want to talk now about the TPUSA video that you got that was the angle that was taken from behind Mr. Kirk while he was talking, looking out at the audience during when the shot was fired.
00:22:55.000And so you're basically casting any doubt you can, any skepticism in any different piece of the pie and the puzzle that they've put together to try and, I don't know, just inject any sort of doubt in the mind of the judge in this case, because it's kind of, he's an audience of one right here.
00:23:13.000But, you know, it's a preview of what the defense tactics are going to be.
00:23:19.000Him admitting alone, so it basically I'll read the quote here and I think we're getting the video as well.
00:23:26.000It says, Isn't it fair to say that as of this is from Nestor, the defense?
00:23:33.000Isn't it fair to say that as of the moment that Tyler Robinson voluntarily surrendered to authorities in Washington County, as of that moment, you all did not know who the shooter was?
00:24:36.000And Hull says, That information came originally, I believe, from the Washington County Sheriff to the administration at the control center at the university on the evening of the investigation or the second evening of the investigation.
00:24:48.000And just to help people have this map in their head Washington County is down in St. George.
00:24:53.000That's actually many hours' drive away.
00:25:08.000And so I just want to emphasize that point that this is a completely separate police department, sheriff's office that is bringing in this information to them.
00:25:19.000Gentlemen, let's get real for a second.
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00:26:46.000It appears that the preliminary hearing is still taking a break here.
00:26:51.000We have Jay Town, career prosecutor, former U.S. attorney.
00:26:55.000You can find him on exit Jay Town, Alabama.
00:26:58.000Jay, there was this obviously the back and forth between the prosecution and the defense.
00:27:03.000Ultimately, Judge Tony Graff agreed to take the non edited compilation.
00:27:10.000So he took the raw footage kind of piece by piece.
00:27:14.000We see that Tyler Robinson was on campus four times.
00:27:19.000You know, and by the way, we're looking at the timestamps of that individual that is presumed to be Tyler Robinson up on the rooftop, prone, right there at 1223 when Charlie was assassinated, and then immediately runs off.
00:27:35.000And, you know, we see the video with the limp.
00:27:39.000How compelling, you've argued these cases, you've been a prosecutor.
00:27:46.000And what do you make of the defense's cross examination as well?
00:27:51.000Yeah, so I mean, these are big pieces.
00:27:53.000I would say that the entire puzzle is what gets you beyond reasonable doubt.
00:27:58.000And so when you take the, you know, what juries want to do is they want to be certain, especially in a death penalty case.
00:28:07.000If death is to be awarded, beyond a reasonable doubt is the legal standard, but they want to be absolutely certain, which is not the legal standard.
00:28:15.000But to be able to timestamp him, to be able to have his parents recognize him in those videos, that, you know, there he is walking.
00:28:32.000We're way past probable cause already.
00:28:34.000But the jury will be able to be, you know, they will be able to trust the prosecution that this is an absolute certainty that this is the man who murdered Charlie Kirk.
00:28:48.000Now, any defense cross, look, and we talked about this yesterday.
00:28:53.000When there's not a real defense, You're going to try to poke holes in every little word that is used.
00:29:00.000You know, for instance, the officer yesterday said that he saw an empty holster.
00:29:06.000He thought the gunshot came from the eastern direction, but then they saw a man was detained by the stage, so he just assumed that the police got it.
00:29:19.000So, you know, that's why he might have thought that.
00:29:21.000People are like, oh, that was an amazing cross examination because now he didn't really know which way, you know, he thought that he wasn't certain which way the gunshot came from.
00:29:31.000Well, it turns out there's other forensic evidence that suggests exactly where it came from, right?
00:29:38.000Wound and the penetration of the spine of Charlie Kirk tells you exactly what direction that bullet came from.
00:29:45.000Happens to be the same direction of that rooftop where that prone position was, right?
00:29:49.000So, hey, Jay, I'm just getting told in my ear that they're just coming back, but I have so many questions for you, you know, so we ran out of time here, but we got to take back the trial here.
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00:31:15.000Um, That was in regards to a statement from David Englehart, who, yes, is a pastor and a lawyer, and he's also a board member for Turning Point.
00:31:30.000I believe he was asked to sort of provide that kind of as a statement of what does Turning Point do?
00:31:38.000Talking about Christian beliefs, conservative values.
00:31:40.000They're doing that because there's something called enhancements.
00:31:46.000And again, apologies if I get any of this slightly wrong, just simply because I'm not a lawyer, but there are something called enhancements necessary for a death penalty case.
00:32:05.000The Supreme Court, when they briefly banned the death penalty and then brought it back in the 70s, when they brought it back, they said you can't have the death penalty just be the default punishment for first degree murder.
00:32:19.000You need some sort of aggravating factor.
00:32:22.000And so, states that have the death penalty, such as Utah, have these aggravating factors.
00:32:26.000Common ones is if you've committed murder before, if you've killed a law enforcement officer, if you killed children, if you killed several people.
00:32:35.000And so, what they're going for here, you could see this actually when they did the charging document.
00:32:39.000They looked for a few different reasons.
00:32:41.000This is one reason, for example, they, I remember in the original charging document, they mentioned like other people were in the area so that they could claim.
00:32:50.000He was endangering the lives of minors or other people.
00:32:54.000But the one that seems to be the strongest is that he was shooting Kirk because shooting Charlie because of his political beliefs.
00:33:03.000And that is an aggravating factor, basically makes it a form of hate crime.
00:33:24.000Let's, while we're trying to get that clip, let's go ahead and play SOT 24.
00:33:28.000This is defense attorney Novak arguing there's no relevant information in Exhibit 5.1, which is this.
00:33:35.000Letter submitted by David Englehart, 24.
00:33:38.000What I'm going to do is I'm going to point out that this proposed exhibit, which is the 1102 statement of Mr. Englehart, is basically four paragraphs.
00:33:50.000The fourth paragraph identifies Mr. Englehart, although I say in the third person, as a pastor and as an attorney who was a friend and a counselor to Mr. Kirk and was involved in leadership of Turning Point USA.
00:34:09.000Beyond that, it's not really relevant to any of the issues before this court.
00:34:16.000Paragraphs one, two, and three talk about Turning Point USA's status with the Internal Revenue Service, the purposes of Turning Point USA, and what I'll just refer to generically as the goals and objectives of Turning Point USA.
00:34:34.000And it also then talks about Mr. Kirk's relationship with TPUSA.
00:34:38.000None of this is unknown information that he was a founder.
00:34:42.000That he was the chief executive officer, that he was the president of the board until his death.
00:34:46.000So I'm still not sure what the relevance is.
00:34:49.000And I guess actually what I should say is I don't believe there is any relevance of any of this information.
00:34:56.000And by the way, I will just say I observed that the judge, Tony Graff, looked for the first time, just from my eyes, just what I observed, looked irritated.
00:35:09.000He looked sort of frustrated with just this.
00:35:14.000Constant, you know, objection, objection, objection, objection.
00:35:19.000And I would say that that was kind of the first time I believe, fact check me on this, that Novak has been heard audibly in the courtroom during this preliminary hearing.
00:36:40.000This is Judge Graff's rules on objections on this closed hearing, SOT 25.
00:36:46.000Under count one, aggravated murder, which is a capital offense, victim targeting enhancement.
00:36:52.000In violation of Utah Code Annotated 76 3 203.14, Sub 2, Tyler James Robinson intentionally selected Charlie Kirk because of Tyler James Robinson's belief or perception regarding Charlie Kirk's political expression.
00:37:10.000If that was not here, this enhancement, and it also goes to count two, felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury.
00:37:21.000And then finally, count seven, violent offense committed in the presence of a child.
00:37:26.000where the victim targeting enhancement also is in play.
00:37:30.000Because that is part of the information that's squarely before the court, this becomes relevant.
00:37:37.000Now, trying to determine what is political expression versus religious expression, that goes into different grounds.
00:37:47.000But at this point, the court finds it is relevant for consideration and at the very least for argument.
00:37:54.000The need for a closed hearing has not been met at this point.
00:37:58.000So, it's not been met at this point with a closed hearing.
00:38:01.000Then he goes on, Judge Graff explains what.
00:38:09.000Now, again, my interpretation of this, and I think a lot of people agree with me, because I've got, like I said, I've got all these lawyers and prosecutors that come out of the woodwork.
00:38:20.000I didn't even know that they were paying attention.
00:38:23.000But it's sort of signaling that the judge kind of hasn't.
00:38:30.000I'm sure he's thinking that there's enough evidence here, right?
00:38:34.000Even just from the charging documents to take this thing to trial.
00:38:36.000He's trying not to step on any procedural tripwires here that could cause a mistrial, could cause this thing to get overturned upon appeal, all these things.
00:39:18.000There is grounds for that to occur and for in order for the court to consider the argument fully and making the determination whether it is relevant and should be admissible.
00:39:29.000Therefore, the court rules that Mr. McBride can continue in his arguments in order that the court can.
00:39:36.000Can make its determination whether state's exhibit 5.1 is admissible or not.
00:39:44.000Mr. McBride of the state, the prosecution, then is able to sort of paraphrase and pull out aspects of the letter, which I'm sure was honestly frustrating for him, not just to be able to kind of read verbatim or frame it up.
00:39:59.000And you could see that kind of frustration between Mr. McBride and Mr. Novak on the defense.
00:40:07.000Back and forth, very interesting, but ultimately, it is the judge essentially ruled that A, we don't need to go to a closed hearing for this, and B, he can extrapolate the main takeaways of the letter from David Englehart to make the case that this was an enhancement that warrants the death penalty in this case.
00:40:34.000So you wonder how long this stuff gets dragged out?
00:40:36.000Yesterday, we had that with Holt where he.
00:40:41.000They had about 45 minutes of back and forth, and they had a closed door break for discussion on whether he's allowed to identify the defendant in the courtroom.
00:40:51.000And they build it up, they build it up, and then they finally are allowed to get to the point okay, can you identify?
00:40:56.000Yeah, it's the guy between the two defense attorneys.
00:41:01.000It's like watching, if you're familiar with the medieval tea ceremony in Japan, just something that could be done in 10 seconds and it's going to take all day.
00:41:15.000Well, that was a fascinating back and forth.
00:41:19.000And I think, you know, just to sum it up, I think the big piece of evidence that was submitted was that video compilation of Tyler Robinson, the man that the investigators identified as Tyler Robinson.
00:41:34.000They repeatedly stated that it was Tyler Robinson from the stand, Officer Hull.
00:41:40.000And they have him there multiple times that day.
00:41:44.000They have him walking with a limp with presumably a weapon in his pant leg.
00:41:47.000They have him getting up on the rooftop of the Losey Center.
00:43:07.000We're going to just a note about how we're going to handle tomorrow.
00:43:11.000So when the live show is tomorrow, there shouldn't, I don't think there's going to be a hearing or anything because it's going to be scheduled for the afternoon as we understand it.
00:43:20.000So, Presumably, that'll be the schedule.
00:43:23.000If that's the case, then we will do a normal live show.
00:43:27.000We'll, you know, probably have an opportunity to cover some of the other news like Mitch McConnell's health, what's going on in the Strait of Hormuz, Graham Platner.