The Charlie Kirk Show - Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing: Day 2

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00:01:17.000 All right.

00:01:17.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:19.000 We are here in studio.

00:01:21.000 We're monitoring the second day of the preliminary hearing in the state of Utah versus Tyler Robinson.

00:01:27.000 A huge, huge moment just happened where the compilation video of Tyler Robinson visiting UVU campus four times, Blake and I were watching it.

00:01:37.000 Our jaws dropped when you're looking at.

00:01:39.000 The time that you know Charlie was shot, and the time that this individual went up on campus and they track him, you know, in the parking garage across the different areas of campus up onto the roof.

00:01:52.000 It was a really, really powerful moment that the judge allowed that to be seen by the media.

00:01:57.000 There was a back and forth between the media and the defense and the prosecution of the defense.

00:02:02.000 We're finally getting evidence that we've heard for months exists, and we're finally getting to see it.

00:02:08.000 So, and now there is a sort of John Madden style.

00:02:11.000 Video where they're zooming in and putting circle marks where they want you to kind of see the suspect walking on campus and wherever else.

00:02:20.000 And so the judge now has not allowed the John Madden style video seen to be seen by the public, but he's reviewing it right now.

00:02:28.000 So we're going to throw back into the courtroom again, a very, very powerful moment that just happened.

00:02:34.000 When we hit breaks, we have guests standing by that are going to help us chime in.

00:02:38.000 We got Will Chamberlain, Jay Town, both lawyers, and both going to help us.

00:02:42.000 Break down what they've seen.

00:02:43.000 So stand by for that.

00:02:45.000 And we're going to just take the courtroom until the next break.

00:02:49.000 All right.

00:02:50.000 Welcome back, everybody.

00:02:52.000 Like I said briefly when we started the hour, a really huge morning in court.

00:02:58.000 And just to kind of go back in time, why don't we bring in Will Chamberlain here, Article 3 Project, and lawyer himself.

00:03:08.000 Will, welcome to the show.

00:03:09.000 Thanks for being on standby with us this morning.

00:03:12.000 That was a Continuation this morning with that same witness.

00:03:19.000 They had blocked, the judge had blocked the sort of John Madden style video from being submitted as evidence and being broadcast to the public.

00:03:26.000 The state, the prosecution in this instance, went back and got the RAW and showed a compilation of the RAW video without any zoom ins.

00:03:34.000 The judge allowed that to be broadcast.

00:03:38.000 What did you see when, in what I believe is the most powerful moment of evidence so far in the case?

00:03:45.000 Well, I mean, it seems pretty clear they have him dead to rights on the fact that he was there, you know, four times in a little over, you know, well, I guess once a week before and then three times day of.

00:03:57.000 And I mean, the fact that they have him there, you know, in the morning and then they have him there right before the shooting, and then you have the video obviously a little smaller with the person who's moving towards him, but it's, I mean, it's pretty clearly Robinson, too.

00:04:09.000 This is, I mean, extremely compelling video evidence.

00:04:13.000 And obviously, this is not going to be the end of it, right?

00:04:15.000 You know, the video evidence alone is damning, but we've got all the, you know, physical and forensic evidence, too.

00:04:20.000 So I think those who were, I think the big mistake that maybe those who were skeptical were making was assuming that.

00:04:29.000 Only the evidence that had been shown within 48 hours of the shooting that was used to identify and apprehend Robinson, but that was going to be the only evidence that the prosecution was able to present.

00:04:40.000 And that's certainly clearly not the case, even after just this brief moment here.

00:04:46.000 Yeah.

00:04:46.000 And Blake, I was sitting next to Blake when this happened, but there was also the moment when you see him coming down.

00:04:55.000 He's changed clothes.

00:04:57.000 It's obviously the moments leading up to the actual shot being fired, and he's got that.

00:05:03.000 He's got long pants now.

00:05:04.000 The first video in that morning, he was wearing shorts, but the same shoes.

00:05:08.000 Then he's got pants and he's got the same pants.

00:05:10.000 He can't walk.

00:05:11.000 He's basically limping along or shuffling, whatever the term is.

00:05:15.000 He clearly can't bend his right leg more than a few degrees.

00:05:20.000 He's sort of staggering up the steps.

00:05:21.000 And they even say in one of the videos, when this person gets on the roof, they say he rolls over the railing.

00:05:28.000 He doesn't really clamber over it, he kind of has to roll himself over it to get onto the rooftop.

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00:06:46.000 All right, welcome back, everybody.

00:06:51.000 So much was made, and we've got Will Chamberlain, Article 3 Project, joining us as well to help break this down.

00:06:59.000 So I'm going to play this video, which, again, you know, we were all watching it together in the bullpen out here.

00:07:04.000 And when you see Tyler Robinson walking with this gait, this limp, I found it to be one of the most compelling moments.

00:07:13.000 And then the next piece in the compilation, you know, we all know we have the time stamp in our head, 1223.

00:07:22.000 That's when Charlie was killed, 1223.

00:07:24.000 And you're looking at the time stamp on the video as he's going up onto the roof.

00:07:29.000 I mean, this is extraordinarily compelling.

00:07:31.000 Go ahead and play Cut Four.

00:07:34.000 This is a video of Mr. Robinson returning back to campus the same way that he did previously on foot.

00:07:40.000 You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus?

00:07:42.000 I do, yes.

00:07:43.000 Okay.

00:07:44.000 And why do you believe it's Mr. Robinson?

00:07:46.000 The shoes are the same.

00:07:48.000 And the images that we have are from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video, it's the same person.

00:08:01.000 He's noticeably wearing different clothing.

00:08:04.000 He is wearing different clothing.

00:08:05.000 And he also is walking with a gait or a limp in this video.

00:08:10.000 With a gait or what?

00:08:11.000 Limp.

00:08:11.000 Okay.

00:08:13.000 So it's Mr. Robinson coming up the stairs of the parking structure.

00:08:21.000 Again, he seems to be having issues walking.

00:08:38.000 And again, were you able to track Mr. Robinson when he leaves this parking structure?

00:08:46.000 Yes, we were able to.

00:08:49.000 So that is presumably what's causing the gate is that he has the weapon or a portion of the weapon stuffed down his pant leg.

00:08:57.000 You can even see the outline, it seems.

00:09:01.000 Well, how compelling is that to you if somebody's outside of our orbit?

00:09:07.000 I want to make sure, I want to be totally dispassionate here.

00:09:10.000 And just balls and strikes.

00:09:12.000 What is how compelling of evidence is that?

00:09:15.000 It's extremely compelling, right?

00:09:17.000 They have video of him walking normally and running at like normally afterwards, is my understanding.

00:09:23.000 People, you know, that doesn't make sense unless, and especially the fact that the timing is happening right before the shooting.

00:09:29.000 Like, why is this person walking like that if he's not carrying a rifle or, I'm sorry, the barrel of a rifle in his pants?

00:09:37.000 And again, I mean, the fact, again, it's the timing and the combination of evidence here.

00:09:42.000 Like, obviously, he's trying, you know, he's now.

00:09:44.000 Wearing different clothing in sunglasses and a baseball cap, trying to hide and change the appearance of his identity, um, and with this bizarre physical gait, uh, you know, and it's like he's not.

00:09:58.000 I mean, think about it here's another way to think about it, right?

00:10:00.000 Like, say he was this was just some random person who was injured, like, you know, theoretically, then why isn't he on crutches?

00:10:06.000 Why doesn't he have something that'll assist in his mobility?

00:10:09.000 You know, one of those little leg scooters everybody has, like, no, this is, I mean, there's a lot of none of this makes sense, uh, and is easily explicable.

00:10:18.000 Like to a normal person, like clearly there's something in his pants, and that is a gun.

00:10:25.000 And as he said, they're saying, How do you know it's Tyler Robinson?

00:10:28.000 And first, he says basically the same shape of person as they had earlier.

00:10:33.000 And he said they had the same shoes, so changed his shirt, changed out of his shorts to get into his, you know, basically long sleeve, long pants, so you can hide stuff under your clothes, but still has the same shoes, wearing sunglasses, otherwise the same shape person.

00:10:49.000 And of course, as we know, He then walks to the roof of that student center, gets onto it.

00:10:55.000 We have this, and I think this is the clip where you can see the timestamp again.

00:10:59.000 All of us know Charlie was killed at 12 23.

00:11:03.000 We like, we'll never get that number out of our head.

00:11:06.000 All right.

00:11:06.000 And so to watch the timestamp of the video and you watch him get up there, it's very compelling.

00:11:14.000 Let's just say that.

00:11:16.000 SOT 5.

00:11:17.000 And what time is this?

00:11:20.000 It's just after noon, about 12 15.

00:11:22.000 On what day?

00:11:24.000 On December, sorry, September 10th, 2025.

00:11:29.000 What just happened or what did we just see happen?

00:11:32.000 The individual actually kind of rolls over the railing onto the roof of the Losey building.

00:11:37.000 All right.

00:11:42.000 And again, in the top left corner, the individual is now seen running across the rooftop of the Losey building to what would be the southwest corner of the building, crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.

00:11:58.000 Can you still see that individual?

00:12:01.000 Yes, you can, laying prone.

00:12:04.000 Laying prone.

00:12:05.000 And then, got another clip here, Will.

00:12:10.000 But just to highlight what you said, the rollover, because again, he's got the gate, something's stuffed down his pants.

00:12:18.000 He's not walking normal.

00:12:19.000 So he kind of rolls over.

00:12:21.000 Can't stick his leg over the normal way.

00:12:23.000 Yeah, to get onto the low seat building there.

00:12:26.000 And then here's the next clip in the sequence of him then fleeing the roof SOT 6.

00:12:32.000 You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?

00:12:34.000 I'm sorry?

00:12:34.000 You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?

00:12:36.000 I do, yes.

00:12:37.000 And how long is he out there on the edge of the building?

00:12:42.000 Just until the reported shot was fired at 12, 23 and 28.

00:12:48.000 The individual then stands up and then moves across the building to the north.

00:12:51.000 Is that what we're seeing happening right now?

00:12:54.000 It is, yes.

00:12:55.000 They move behind the atrium area on the rooftop to the northeast corner where the white triangle is.

00:13:06.000 Do you see Mr. Robinson now?

00:13:09.000 I do, yes.

00:13:09.000 He's just arriving at the corner of the building.

00:13:12.000 The almost top center of the image.

00:13:21.000 What are we seeing now?

00:13:23.000 Mr. Robinson lowering and jumping off of the roof of the Lowsey building onto the grass area and then moving away towards Campus Drive.

00:13:34.000 So the guy with the limp suddenly became a lot more mobile right there, right after 12, 23 and 28, which is, as we all know, the moment.

00:13:48.000 So it's a.

00:13:53.000 Hard to watch, to be honest.

00:13:56.000 So, I don't know.

00:13:58.000 Anybody else want to chime in here?

00:14:00.000 Yeah.

00:14:01.000 I mean, I remember that footage.

00:14:02.000 That footage, at least that little bit of security footage, that was published pretty, I think that was published all the way back 48 hours after the shooting by the FBI when they were looking for the guy and they were sort of presenting the evidence of why they thought this was the guy.

00:14:16.000 Maybe it was at the apprehension.

00:14:17.000 I'm not sure.

00:14:18.000 But I remember that footage.

00:14:20.000 And I thought it was, you know, perhaps one of those things where once you understand that it's like, oh, yeah, clearly it's this person.

00:14:27.000 Right, like whoever you know, you have the timing in the background, you know, that's when the shot just happened, and then you have a guy scrambling across the roof and dropping himself down to like clearly escape.

00:14:36.000 Like, if he was, you know, a normal person, say just again, like, let's try and construct sort of innocent explanations, right?

00:14:42.000 Why is there a normal person on the roof?

00:14:44.000 What would they do?

00:14:44.000 Well, they wouldn't run and try and drop down 10 feet, uh, they would just go down the go back the way they came, they would walk down the stairs if they're just a normal person going about their day and for whatever reason decided to take a brief excursion to the roof for sightseeing or something.

00:14:57.000 Uh, but no, this is a person who's running.

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00:16:01.000 All right.

00:16:01.000 Welcome back, everybody.

00:16:03.000 So that was an interesting back and forth.

00:16:05.000 We kind of saw some of the, I think, from.

00:16:10.000 Kathy Nestor, the defense attorney's cross examination of that witness, you know, she's obviously trying to poke holes in some of the ring camera footage, which I think is fairly flimsy.

00:16:23.000 I mean, trying to remember what cars drove in front of a person's house would be extremely difficult.

00:16:28.000 And then you actually do have the ring footage, which is what it is, right?

00:16:33.000 So I don't know what they would make of that or if that would be compelling evidence to a judge or jury.

00:16:40.000 Then you see the cross examination by.

00:16:44.000 The state going back kind of and reacting to some of Kathy Nestor's cross.

00:16:52.000 And it felt like there was, he did a fairly thorough job of kind of plugging in all those holes.

00:16:58.000 You know, they keep talking about this bullet casing not being found on the roof.

00:17:06.000 That has been sort of dealt with as well that if you have a bolt action rifle and you only fire one shot, it doesn't eject the casing that was found.

00:17:14.000 Later.

00:17:15.000 The most important thing, I mean, we got that a little bit, is that they established, they basically asked them, did you have any suspects before Tyler Robinson turned himself in?

00:17:27.000 Yeah, that's a very good point.

00:17:29.000 I think they might be setting it up as in, you didn't really deduce that it was Tyler Robinson until this happened.

00:17:35.000 But the flip side of this is that's absolutely devastating to people who are claiming, oh, he didn't turn himself in, the weirder stuff that he was coerced into doing this.

00:17:47.000 Yeah.

00:17:47.000 Yeah, and that was actually kind of the, I think, a moment that we, you could skip over and kind of not hear it, but the defense themselves is admitting that Tyler Robinson turned himself in.

00:18:02.000 So, you know, what would compel him to do that besides being guilty of the crime, of the alleged crime here, I don't know what you could surmise from that.

00:18:17.000 There was also this interesting moment where.

00:18:22.000 Talking about like some of the camera footage that there were multiple angles or something, SOT 12.

00:18:30.000 I want to talk now about the TPUSA video that you got that was the angle that was taken from behind Mr. Kirk while he was talking, looking out at the audience during when the shot was fired.

00:18:42.000 Do you remember that video?

00:18:44.000 The visual impulse videos?

00:18:45.000 Yes.

00:18:46.000 All right.

00:18:47.000 Is it true that visual impulse provided four videos?

00:18:51.000 Yeah, I believe there were four total videos that encompassed everything that they provided to us, yes.

00:18:57.000 But the one that you showed, that's only one of the four that they provided to you?

00:19:03.000 That one that was shown had a Bates number.

00:19:06.000 It was an item that was provided by Utah County Attorney's Office.

00:19:09.000 Okay, but were there more that you haven't seen in this courtroom in this prelim that you got?

00:19:16.000 There's the original footage.

00:19:17.000 Okay.

00:19:19.000 But were there other angles that are not shown here in this prelim?

00:19:23.000 Yes.

00:19:24.000 Okay, that's what I was trying to get to.

00:19:25.000 Thank you.

00:19:26.000 So I don't really know what she's getting at there.

00:19:30.000 All that video was turned over to authorities.

00:19:34.000 That's why they have it.

00:19:36.000 So I don't know if she's trying to get access to that or doesn't have access to that.

00:19:41.000 I'm not sure what to make of that precisely.

00:19:43.000 It's always tough to see what they're going for.

00:19:45.000 As we've established, they're really throwing every piece of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

00:19:51.000 They're bringing up every objection they can, they're asking questions that seem weird.

00:19:56.000 We even heard them.

00:19:58.000 Ask him, were you involved in the decision to repave over where it happened?

00:20:05.000 And he said, No, I only heard about that later.

00:20:08.000 Same.

00:20:09.000 And through the news.

00:20:10.000 He said, I only heard about that through news reports.

00:20:12.000 Yeah, which was the same for us.

00:20:14.000 Yeah, there's a bunch there.

00:20:16.000 It does seem just initial reaction, kind of the way she's going through everything.

00:20:23.000 It does feel like they're just kind of trying to, I don't know, sort of poke holes, blur the vision.

00:20:29.000 I think it's important then to kind of go through some of these different moments that we have here, right?

00:20:34.000 So, just to recap for the audience, we've got the medical examiner's report says cause of death was a gunshot wound to the neck, right?

00:20:43.000 So, no exploding mic theory.

00:20:45.000 CPUSA turned over HD video footage.

00:20:48.000 That would be visual impulse, turned over the video footage from their camera shooting.

00:20:51.000 So, nobody tampered with that evidence.

00:20:55.000 It was turned over.

00:20:56.000 The lead investigator testified that the tip came when a person, Tyler Robinson, turned himself into the Washington County.

00:21:02.000 Police.

00:21:03.000 So he did turn himself in.

00:21:05.000 That's another sort of thing that's been unclear.

00:21:08.000 Access to the rooftop.

00:21:10.000 We heard from that testimony that he, when he was walking with a limp, he kind of rolled over the railing.

00:21:18.000 So it was open to the public, a small guardrail that can be hopped over to gain entry, in this case, rollover.

00:21:25.000 So you don't need to be super tall.

00:21:28.000 You don't need to be super, you don't need to have like a huge vertical jump or anything like that.

00:21:34.000 He rolled over it.

00:21:35.000 That video has been presented of that moment happening.

00:21:42.000 So there's just the bullet casing.

00:21:44.000 We talked about that.

00:21:45.000 Bolt actions doesn't eject the casing if one shot's firing.

00:21:49.000 Go ahead.

00:21:50.000 I'm just thinking some of the.

00:21:51.000 I'm re looking because we're getting these videos coming in.

00:21:54.000 Some of the stranger objections, they go after the autopsy.

00:21:58.000 They ask, were you personally present there?

00:22:00.000 And he says, no.

00:22:01.000 So you're only getting this secondhand.

00:22:03.000 Well, yes.

00:22:05.000 That is what we're allowed to do in this preliminary hearing.

00:22:07.000 We will see.

00:22:08.000 You know, the medical examiner will almost presumably come in or give some kind of.

00:22:14.000 Make some sort of appearance in the actual trial.

00:22:16.000 But for now, it is enough for the police officer to say, I have seen the report and this is what it says.

00:22:23.000 But they're really making a lot of objections.

00:22:25.000 And I know some people are freaking out about them.

00:22:28.000 Remember, Tyler Robinson is constitutionally entitled to a defense.

00:22:33.000 And you and I both believe they have a pretty tough job to do.

00:22:38.000 Honestly, it would be a tough job.

00:22:40.000 And kind of just hearing Nestor repeatedly say, Tyler Robinson turned himself in, and sort of that alone would be a really tough job.

00:22:48.000 Uphill battle at that point.

00:22:50.000 Ask yourself, what would you do if you were required professionally to do this?

00:22:55.000 Yeah.

00:22:55.000 And so you're basically casting any doubt you can, any skepticism in any different piece of the pie and the puzzle that they've put together to try and, I don't know, just inject any sort of doubt in the mind of the judge in this case, because it's kind of, he's an audience of one right here.

00:23:13.000 But, you know, it's a preview of what the defense tactics are going to be.

00:23:18.000 But yeah, just.

00:23:19.000 Him admitting alone, so it basically I'll read the quote here and I think we're getting the video as well.

00:23:26.000 It says, Isn't it fair to say that as of this is from Nestor, the defense?

00:23:33.000 Isn't it fair to say that as of the moment that Tyler Robinson voluntarily surrendered to authorities in Washington County, as of that moment, you all did not know who the shooter was?

00:23:42.000 Is that right?

00:23:43.000 Even the framing of that, you didn't know who the shooter was.

00:23:47.000 Yeah, that's it.

00:23:48.000 Are you admitting that Tyler Robinson is a shooter?

00:23:51.000 We had identified a person of interest.

00:23:53.000 They didn't really explore that, I don't think.

00:23:55.000 No.

00:23:55.000 Was it Tyler Robinson or was it somebody else?

00:23:58.000 You mean the investigators?

00:24:00.000 When he says, yeah, we had a person of interest.

00:24:03.000 We identified a person of interest, but we did not specifically know who the shooter was at that time.

00:24:08.000 I think I read that as just sort of him saying that we identified that person, the suspect in the video.

00:24:15.000 That makes sense, yes.

00:24:16.000 Yeah.

00:24:17.000 Because he's saying we didn't specifically know who the shooter was at that time.

00:24:21.000 So we knew who they were looking for.

00:24:22.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:24:24.000 They knew.

00:24:25.000 The person in the videos they'd seen who they thought was the person of interest.

00:24:29.000 And then Nestor says, You became aware that Mr. Robinson was voluntarily surrendering.

00:24:34.000 How did you become aware of that?

00:24:36.000 And Hull says, That information came originally, I believe, from the Washington County Sheriff to the administration at the control center at the university on the evening of the investigation or the second evening of the investigation.

00:24:48.000 And just to help people have this map in their head Washington County is down in St. George.

00:24:53.000 That's actually many hours' drive away.

00:24:56.000 This is in Utah County.

00:24:57.000 That's where Provo and Oram are.

00:24:59.000 And then Washington County is down in the southwest corner of the state, close to Nevada and Arizona.

00:25:04.000 That's where Tyler Robinson is from.

00:25:06.000 That's where he turned himself in.

00:25:08.000 And so I just want to emphasize that point that this is a completely separate police department, sheriff's office that is bringing in this information to them.

00:25:19.000 Gentlemen, let's get real for a second.

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00:26:42.000 All right, welcome back.

00:26:46.000 It appears that the preliminary hearing is still taking a break here.

00:26:51.000 We have Jay Town, career prosecutor, former U.S. attorney.

00:26:55.000 You can find him on exit Jay Town, Alabama.

00:26:58.000 Jay, there was this obviously the back and forth between the prosecution and the defense.

00:27:03.000 Ultimately, Judge Tony Graff agreed to take the non edited compilation.

00:27:10.000 So he took the raw footage kind of piece by piece.

00:27:14.000 We see that Tyler Robinson was on campus four times.

00:27:19.000 You know, and by the way, we're looking at the timestamps of that individual that is presumed to be Tyler Robinson up on the rooftop, prone, right there at 1223 when Charlie was assassinated, and then immediately runs off.

00:27:35.000 And, you know, we see the video with the limp.

00:27:39.000 How compelling, you've argued these cases, you've been a prosecutor.

00:27:44.000 How compelling is that evidence?

00:27:46.000 And what do you make of the defense's cross examination as well?

00:27:51.000 Yeah, so I mean, these are big pieces.

00:27:53.000 I would say that the entire puzzle is what gets you beyond reasonable doubt.

00:27:58.000 And so when you take the, you know, what juries want to do is they want to be certain, especially in a death penalty case.

00:28:07.000 If death is to be awarded, beyond a reasonable doubt is the legal standard, but they want to be absolutely certain, which is not the legal standard.

00:28:15.000 But to be able to timestamp him, to be able to have his parents recognize him in those videos, that, you know, there he is walking.

00:28:25.000 Coming in, going out.

00:28:27.000 Those videos, juries love that stuff.

00:28:30.000 And I'm not talking about the judge.

00:28:32.000 We're way past probable cause already.

00:28:34.000 But the jury will be able to be, you know, they will be able to trust the prosecution that this is an absolute certainty that this is the man who murdered Charlie Kirk.

00:28:48.000 Now, any defense cross, look, and we talked about this yesterday.

00:28:53.000 When there's not a real defense, You're going to try to poke holes in every little word that is used.

00:29:00.000 You know, for instance, the officer yesterday said that he saw an empty holster.

00:29:06.000 He thought the gunshot came from the eastern direction, but then they saw a man was detained by the stage, so he just assumed that the police got it.

00:29:14.000 Well, that's human frailty.

00:29:15.000 People think they could have got it wrong.

00:29:17.000 It's in an echo chamber, essentially.

00:29:19.000 So, you know, that's why he might have thought that.

00:29:21.000 People are like, oh, that was an amazing cross examination because now he didn't really know which way, you know, he thought that he wasn't certain which way the gunshot came from.

00:29:31.000 Well, it turns out there's other forensic evidence that suggests exactly where it came from, right?

00:29:36.000 To include the entry.

00:29:38.000 Wound and the penetration of the spine of Charlie Kirk tells you exactly what direction that bullet came from.

00:29:45.000 Happens to be the same direction of that rooftop where that prone position was, right?

00:29:49.000 So, hey, Jay, I'm just getting told in my ear that they're just coming back, but I have so many questions for you, you know, so we ran out of time here, but we got to take back the trial here.

00:30:02.000 Thank you, Jay, for the hearing.

00:30:07.000 Good conversation is about respect.

00:30:10.000 It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and be heard.

00:30:14.000 Charlie knew that.

00:30:15.000 Turning Point still knows that.

00:30:16.000 And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other.

00:30:26.000 When ideas meet respect, good things happen.

00:30:29.000 On TikTok, you can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers, viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond.

00:30:40.000 TikTok turns connection into community.

00:30:42.000 Through small acts of understanding.

00:30:44.000 You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world.

00:30:48.000 TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion, and discussion helps us build something real.

00:30:57.000 All right, welcome back.

00:30:59.000 We're going to take the last part of this hour to kind of summarize what just happened as we're getting it real time.

00:31:07.000 That whole proceeding, I'm sure people were.

00:31:11.000 I was weird.

00:31:12.000 Yeah, we're sort of wondering what it was.

00:31:14.000 Okay.

00:31:15.000 Um, That was in regards to a statement from David Englehart, who, yes, is a pastor and a lawyer, and he's also a board member for Turning Point.

00:31:30.000 I believe he was asked to sort of provide that kind of as a statement of what does Turning Point do?

00:31:36.000 What does it believe?

00:31:36.000 What did Charlie believe?

00:31:38.000 Talking about Christian beliefs, conservative values.

00:31:40.000 They're doing that because there's something called enhancements.

00:31:46.000 And again, apologies if I get any of this slightly wrong, just simply because I'm not a lawyer, but there are something called enhancements necessary for a death penalty case.

00:31:57.000 Right.

00:31:58.000 So you have to prove that it was done, the motive was done out of a political or religious motive.

00:32:04.000 Basically, motive.

00:32:05.000 The Supreme Court, when they briefly banned the death penalty and then brought it back in the 70s, when they brought it back, they said you can't have the death penalty just be the default punishment for first degree murder.

00:32:19.000 You need some sort of aggravating factor.

00:32:22.000 And so, states that have the death penalty, such as Utah, have these aggravating factors.

00:32:26.000 Common ones is if you've committed murder before, if you've killed a law enforcement officer, if you killed children, if you killed several people.

00:32:35.000 And so, what they're going for here, you could see this actually when they did the charging document.

00:32:39.000 They looked for a few different reasons.

00:32:41.000 This is one reason, for example, they, I remember in the original charging document, they mentioned like other people were in the area so that they could claim.

00:32:50.000 He was endangering the lives of minors or other people.

00:32:54.000 But the one that seems to be the strongest is that he was shooting Kirk because shooting Charlie because of his political beliefs.

00:33:03.000 And that is an aggravating factor, basically makes it a form of hate crime.

00:33:07.000 Right.

00:33:08.000 And let's, we have the, we have a, I'm going to try and pull it up here.

00:33:13.000 Team, can you pull up the text message exchange, the highlighted one, where it talks about some hate can't be negotiated out?

00:33:23.000 I know we have that.

00:33:24.000 Let's, while we're trying to get that clip, let's go ahead and play SOT 24.

00:33:28.000 This is defense attorney Novak arguing there's no relevant information in Exhibit 5.1, which is this.

00:33:35.000 Letter submitted by David Englehart, 24.

00:33:38.000 What I'm going to do is I'm going to point out that this proposed exhibit, which is the 1102 statement of Mr. Englehart, is basically four paragraphs.

00:33:50.000 The fourth paragraph identifies Mr. Englehart, although I say in the third person, as a pastor and as an attorney who was a friend and a counselor to Mr. Kirk and was involved in leadership of Turning Point USA.

00:34:09.000 Beyond that, it's not really relevant to any of the issues before this court.

00:34:16.000 Paragraphs one, two, and three talk about Turning Point USA's status with the Internal Revenue Service, the purposes of Turning Point USA, and what I'll just refer to generically as the goals and objectives of Turning Point USA.

00:34:34.000 And it also then talks about Mr. Kirk's relationship with TPUSA.

00:34:38.000 None of this is unknown information that he was a founder.

00:34:42.000 That he was the chief executive officer, that he was the president of the board until his death.

00:34:46.000 So I'm still not sure what the relevance is.

00:34:49.000 And I guess actually what I should say is I don't believe there is any relevance of any of this information.

00:34:54.000 All right.

00:34:55.000 So that's Novak.

00:34:56.000 And by the way, I will just say I observed that the judge, Tony Graff, looked for the first time, just from my eyes, just what I observed, looked irritated.

00:35:09.000 He looked sort of frustrated with just this.

00:35:14.000 Constant, you know, objection, objection, objection, objection.

00:35:19.000 And I would say that that was kind of the first time I believe, fact check me on this, that Novak has been heard audibly in the courtroom during this preliminary hearing.

00:35:29.000 And his tone is very gruff.

00:35:30.000 It's very sort of commanding, almost like he's trying to dictate the terms to the judge.

00:35:37.000 So I can imagine that would sort of be a little exhausting.

00:35:41.000 So throw this up.

00:35:42.000 We have this.

00:35:44.000 And, you know, by the way, this, this, Text message exchange between Tyler Robinson and Lance Twiggs that the state has presented.

00:35:53.000 I had enough of his hatred.

00:35:54.000 Some hate can't be negotiated out.

00:35:57.000 Now, that is Tyler Robinson, who is a, you know, I guess former LDS, right?

00:36:03.000 He was raised Mormon, obviously was not living that way at the time of the shooting because he was living with his boyfriend. 0.51

00:36:13.000 So he had a gay relationship with Twiggs.

00:36:15.000 Twiggs was a trans identified guy in.

00:36:21.000 So, all of this is very pertinent because I had enough of his hatred.

00:36:26.000 Some hate can't be negotiated out.

00:36:27.000 So, these things are relevant in many ways.

00:36:31.000 There was then a discussion about whether the letter should be submitted as evidence in a closed hearing.

00:36:39.000 So, here's SOT 25.

00:36:40.000 This is Judge Graff's rules on objections on this closed hearing, SOT 25.

00:36:46.000 Under count one, aggravated murder, which is a capital offense, victim targeting enhancement.

00:36:52.000 In violation of Utah Code Annotated 76 3 203.14, Sub 2, Tyler James Robinson intentionally selected Charlie Kirk because of Tyler James Robinson's belief or perception regarding Charlie Kirk's political expression.

00:37:10.000 If that was not here, this enhancement, and it also goes to count two, felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury.

00:37:21.000 And then finally, count seven, violent offense committed in the presence of a child.

00:37:26.000 where the victim targeting enhancement also is in play.

00:37:30.000 Because that is part of the information that's squarely before the court, this becomes relevant.

00:37:37.000 Now, trying to determine what is political expression versus religious expression, that goes into different grounds.

00:37:47.000 But at this point, the court finds it is relevant for consideration and at the very least for argument.

00:37:54.000 The need for a closed hearing has not been met at this point.

00:37:58.000 So, it's not been met at this point with a closed hearing.

00:38:01.000 Then he goes on, Judge Graff explains what.

00:38:06.000 So, he kind of splits the baby here.

00:38:09.000 Now, again, my interpretation of this, and I think a lot of people agree with me, because I've got, like I said, I've got all these lawyers and prosecutors that come out of the woodwork.

00:38:20.000 I didn't even know that they were paying attention.

00:38:23.000 But it's sort of signaling that the judge kind of hasn't.

00:38:30.000 I'm sure he's thinking that there's enough evidence here, right?

00:38:34.000 Even just from the charging documents to take this thing to trial.

00:38:36.000 He's trying not to step on any procedural tripwires here that could cause a mistrial, could cause this thing to get overturned upon appeal, all these things.

00:38:48.000 So he's being very deliberate.

00:38:49.000 It kind of splits the baby.

00:38:51.000 See how he addresses this objection from the defense here, SOT 26.

00:38:55.000 And so the ruling of the court is previously I sustained Mr. Novak's.

00:39:01.000 Objection and the court will expound upon that.

00:39:05.000 That Mr. McBride in his argument cannot read the entirety of state's exhibit 5.1.

00:39:11.000 Can he reference points of it and specifically quote certain points?

00:39:17.000 The court rules that he can.

00:39:18.000 There is grounds for that to occur and for in order for the court to consider the argument fully and making the determination whether it is relevant and should be admissible.

00:39:29.000 Therefore, the court rules that Mr. McBride can continue in his arguments in order that the court can.

00:39:36.000 Can make its determination whether state's exhibit 5.1 is admissible or not.

00:39:41.000 Okay, so then he splits the baby.

00:39:44.000 Mr. McBride of the state, the prosecution, then is able to sort of paraphrase and pull out aspects of the letter, which I'm sure was honestly frustrating for him, not just to be able to kind of read verbatim or frame it up.

00:39:59.000 And you could see that kind of frustration between Mr. McBride and Mr. Novak on the defense.

00:40:04.000 So it's just, again, technical.

00:40:07.000 Back and forth, very interesting, but ultimately, it is the judge essentially ruled that A, we don't need to go to a closed hearing for this, and B, he can extrapolate the main takeaways of the letter from David Englehart to make the case that this was an enhancement that warrants the death penalty in this case.

00:40:28.000 So that's what all of that was about.

00:40:31.000 It took about 40 minutes, 50 minutes.

00:40:34.000 So you wonder how long this stuff gets dragged out?

00:40:36.000 Yesterday, we had that with Holt where he.

00:40:41.000 They had about 45 minutes of back and forth, and they had a closed door break for discussion on whether he's allowed to identify the defendant in the courtroom.

00:40:51.000 And they build it up, they build it up, and then they finally are allowed to get to the point okay, can you identify?

00:40:56.000 Yeah, it's the guy between the two defense attorneys.

00:40:59.000 Yeah.

00:41:00.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:41:01.000 It's like watching, if you're familiar with the medieval tea ceremony in Japan, just something that could be done in 10 seconds and it's going to take all day.

00:41:13.000 Yeah.

00:41:15.000 Well, that was a fascinating back and forth.

00:41:19.000 And I think, you know, just to sum it up, I think the big piece of evidence that was submitted was that video compilation of Tyler Robinson, the man that the investigators identified as Tyler Robinson.

00:41:34.000 They repeatedly stated that it was Tyler Robinson from the stand, Officer Hull.

00:41:40.000 And they have him there multiple times that day.

00:41:44.000 They have him walking with a limp with presumably a weapon in his pant leg.

00:41:47.000 They have him getting up on the rooftop of the Losey Center.

00:41:50.000 And they have him jumping off.

00:41:51.000 They have him immediately jumping off after 12 23 when we know Charlie was shot.

00:41:59.000 And he runs off the rooftop and throws something down on the ground, I believe.

00:42:06.000 That video is now public record.

00:42:10.000 And it's more video than we'd seen before.

00:42:12.000 And we're still waiting.

00:42:14.000 We basically have, I think.

00:42:18.000 We'll have who's the guy's going now and at least one witness after that.

00:42:21.000 Yeah, and we still haven't got we still haven't got to we're still waiting on Lance Twiggs.

00:42:25.000 Yep, we're still waiting on forensic testing to get entered in.

00:42:28.000 I assume there'll probably be some further description of the turning in process in Washington County, right?

00:42:37.000 When we're not sure how much we'll get out of that, he was turned in, yeah, but we're waiting on all of that.

00:42:42.000 We'll have about three and a half hours of continued testimony today.

00:42:46.000 Once they get back at 1 40 their time, they're going till five.

00:42:50.000 Then tomorrow, they'll be starting after lunch.

00:42:53.000 It'll be a half day on Wednesday.

00:42:55.000 And I guess we'll see how long it takes.

00:42:57.000 Some people have said they think the prosecution's half of this will be done by Wednesday.

00:43:02.000 Yep.

00:43:03.000 But they found a way to elongate every single aspect of this.

00:43:06.000 Yeah.

00:43:06.000 So we'll see.

00:43:07.000 We're going to just a note about how we're going to handle tomorrow.

00:43:11.000 So when the live show is tomorrow, there shouldn't, I don't think there's going to be a hearing or anything because it's going to be scheduled for the afternoon as we understand it.

00:43:20.000 So, Presumably, that'll be the schedule.

00:43:23.000 If that's the case, then we will do a normal live show.

00:43:27.000 We'll, you know, probably have an opportunity to cover some of the other news like Mitch McConnell's health, what's going on in the Strait of Hormuz, Graham Platner.

00:43:37.000 There's a lot going on right now.

00:43:40.000 Bernie Sanders has actually called for Graham Platner to step down, but there's a lot of news going on, and we're going to cover that.

00:43:48.000 Maybe we'll address some stuff from the trial, but again, we always have the after the preliminary hearing wraps.

00:43:54.000 Tonight, we will do a day two recap.

00:43:57.000 Tomorrow, we'll do a day three recap, all focused on this trial.

00:44:01.000 So, stay tuned right here to the Charlie Kirk Show as we cover the state of Utah versus Tyler Robinson.

00:44:09.000 We want justice for Charlie.

00:44:10.000 That is what we want more than anything.

00:44:12.000 And we want to see the justice system play out.

00:44:14.000 We want to see, you know, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

00:44:19.000 That's the way our justice system works.

00:44:21.000 And we love that.

00:44:22.000 And I think it's a great heritage that we have.

00:44:24.000 And so, We're going to follow this beat by beat, day by day, evidence, exhibit by exhibit.

00:44:31.000 So stay tuned right here, just the facts.

00:44:34.000 And we appreciate you guys tuning in, and we'll talk to you soon.

00:44:41.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 07, 2026

Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing: Day 2

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Transcript