Matt Peterson of What is the New Right and Will Chamberlain thinks he s found the Supreme Court Leaker. Who is Elizabeth Deutsch? And why does she have a particular interest in Roe v. Wade and abortion rights?
00:00:01.000Today at the Charlie Kirk show, Matt Peterson of What is the New Right? And Will Chamberlain, and he thinks he's found the Supreme Court leaker.
00:00:31.000And so maybe you are a young woman and you want to come to our Young Women's Leadership Summit and see Candace Owens and Kaylee Mackinene and more.
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00:03:09.000One is that her academic and professional history demonstrates that she has a unique focus on abortion and reproductive rights.
00:03:18.000Like that's from the time she was in law school, her law school note, her fellowship at the ACLU, her clerkships, her op-ed writing, like they've all been like laser focused on abortion and women's issues.
00:03:31.000I mean, a good example would be that her law school note was focused on looking at how you could use the non-discrimination provisions in Obamacare to try and force Catholic hospitals to perform emergency abortions.
00:04:10.000So, and then the second part of it is that she has a personal connection to Josh Gerstein, who is the author of the political article and the recipient of the leak of the draft opinion.
00:04:21.000The draft opinion essentially could only really have come from Chambers, like first and foremost.
00:05:24.000And also the thing about the political article is Josh Gerstein didn't just have the draft opinion, he had the vote count, the current vote count on DOC.
00:05:46.000And so the question is, okay, which of these clerks is like most likely to leak it?
00:05:51.000And we can get to the next part, which is how the left reacted to this.
00:05:55.000They're just acting like this is inconceivable that people would speculate as to the identity of the leaker when there's a limited universe of people that it could be.
00:06:17.000Uh, I think you talked with Mike Davis about this, I assume.
00:06:19.000And I mean, he would have said the same thing.
00:06:21.000This is completely unprecedented, right?
00:06:23.000The leak of a draft opinion prior to the judgment leaked with the intention of trying to either, you know, change the vote or rile up public outrage.
00:06:35.000It completely will break the way the court works.
00:06:37.000It's unclear whether they'll be able to have temporary clerks in the future at all.
00:06:41.000Like they might have to completely change the way the court has done business for 100 years because this has never happened.
00:06:46.000They've always assumed that the risk of career damage for someone who's worked so hard to get a Supreme Court clerkship was enough to keep people online, but apparently not.
00:07:19.000So you can look at her on LinkedIn, Elizabeth Deutsch, and she went to Yale, which helps, I think, prove your point, by the way, because Yale is just a cesspool for the worst direction of America.
00:08:14.000And yet the left has come after me in the most vicious personal ways.
00:08:18.000I don't want to belabor it because we're all big boys here, but I've had like endless people on Twitter, but also on my personal phone going after me.
00:08:27.000I've had even threats to my, you know, somebody harassing my children, like four-month-old daughter, who you've been hearing a little bit through the course of this interview.
00:08:34.000And I mean, it's like they want to believe the worst about me.
00:08:39.000And so they're actually doing the thing they accuse me of doing.
00:08:42.000They're doing to me what they accuse me of doing to her, which I did not do, right?
00:08:47.000They're doing, you know, they're going after me, like posting personal addresses and phone numbers and things like that.
00:08:54.000Clearly over the line, exactly what I didn't do quite intentionally, because I know that that's wrong, like any normal person.
00:09:02.000And yet we're still, you know, we're still dealing with it.
00:09:04.000And it's not just the, it's like Eric Swalwell and George Take and Park Mamenko and the list of lefty influencers and congresspeople who've been upset by this leak.
00:11:15.000I think that there's something to be said that because they leaked it early, that you can't really have that kind of, whoa, abortion is gone, even though it's not, it goes back to the states, right?
00:11:34.000Yeah, I mean, I don't think the leak ends up helping the Democrats all that much, right?
00:11:39.000No matter what, they would have had the decision before midterms in the sense of if there was some motivating force of the repeal of Roe to get people to get Democrats to the polls.
00:11:49.000Well, that was going to happen anyway because the decision was going to be released by June.
00:12:39.000I think the best analysis is that they're, you know, the most likely scenario is just sort of irrational, hail Mary hope that you get somebody to change their mind.
00:12:49.000I think that that's like, you know, that's, that's why I think Deutsch is such a likely candidate, right?
00:12:54.000She spent her whole career working on this issue, and all of a sudden it's going to get blown up, right?
00:12:58.000Like it's like seeing your life's work disappear in addition to you having what I'm sure she feels is pretty substantial moral outrage.
00:13:06.000So that's, that's what I think that's the most likely answer.
00:13:08.000Simply not really thinking like strategically or like a Machiavellian or anything, but just an emotional, like, I hate this.
00:13:15.000What I'm going to do whatever I can desperation.
00:13:18.000I think if there is like a strategic calculus, it would be something like we want states to get out in front of this knowing that Roe is about to be repealed so liberal states could implement pro-choice like policies on the books and get ahead of it.
00:13:32.000Maybe that would be the most likely outcome.
00:13:35.000But I don't think that makes much sense because conservative states can get out ahead of it too.
00:13:39.000And it's not clear that that improves things for the pro-choice movement.
00:13:42.000But that's like, that's my best guess.
00:13:44.000I still think it just, the thing that makes the most sense is just, you know, someone reacted so negatively to the potential repeal of Roe, which they feel is just an outrage.
00:13:54.000So in closing here, Will, I want to shift gears.
00:13:56.000You've been on the tech censorship issue more than almost anybody else in the last couple of years.
00:14:02.000I mean, we shouldn't have to depend on billionaires like coming to the rescue, literally the single wealthiest person in the world coming to the rescue and saving us from the problems of social media censorship.
00:14:13.000But I think it's an incredibly good thing that it's happening.
00:14:15.000Clearly, he's very much anti-censorship based on what he said on Twitter.
00:14:20.000I think that the left is obviously reacting a way that we would anticipate.
00:14:25.000And I think it, you know, it provides a model for potentially a different type of corporate activism.
00:14:29.000We've constantly thought about compete, compete, compete, right?
00:14:32.000If somebody's doing something we don't like with a big institution, well, we should just compete against it and build a brand new institution to compete with it.
00:14:39.000Well, I think there's a different model.
00:14:43.000There's, that's, it turns out if you can do it with something like Twitter, maybe you could do it with something like Disney or something else, some big institution with, you know, enormous capital investments all over the place.
00:14:54.000I mean, competing with Disney is hard.
00:14:55.000I'm glad the Daily Wire is trying to do it.
00:14:57.000But, you know, it would be nice if we could buy it and then use the existing massive infrastructure and capital of Disney to do things that we think are good.
00:15:06.000This will be a, I said this the other day.
00:15:07.000I said, the good news of a recession and the market going down and having a lot of dollar bills is there will be buy-in opportunities.
00:16:05.000Well, first off, this is an enormously important week because JD Vance winning that primary for the U.S. Senate really is the shot heard around the world.
00:16:17.000They don't want to talk about it, but it has the establishment seething and very afraid.
00:16:25.000And it really is the first of, I think, a series of dominoes that are going to fall leading into this fall that are going to define this red wave as something that's not coming about due to God bless them, Mitch McConnell and others, but due to strong new leaders on the right who are taking the America first agenda and moving forward.
00:16:47.000And so really, you know, they're not talking about this enough.
00:16:50.000This is incredibly important what just happened.
00:16:52.000Millions of dollars were spent by establishment Republicans against JD Vance.
00:16:57.000And that win, which now sets him on course to go to the U.S. Senate, is just it should be the shot heard around the world.
00:17:42.000And I think that's the, there's a lack of clarity on this because so many people who control media outlets, even on the right, don't quite understand or aren't comfortable with where things are going.
00:17:54.000I would define it as a group of people who realize just how bad things are.
00:18:01.000They realize that the institutions in America have become corrupt under the watch or lack of watch of the people who should have been the adults in the room.
00:18:12.000And because those institutions are now so corrupt and doing such egregious, you know, terrible things, they've already disintegrated any kind of norm that people were pretending used to exist.
00:18:23.000We now need to take more serious action to retake America, to refound American civilization, to renew an American way of life that's worthy of the name.
00:18:34.000And I think, I mean, that's very generic in a way, but it really defines everything to me.
00:18:39.000It's people who realize, look at how bad the situation is, and therefore, what needs to be done in order to retake those institutions?
00:18:48.000And in many cases, that means creating new institutions or new super PACs or new activist groups.
00:18:55.000But in some situations, it simply means using the force of the power we have to combat this tyrannical religion that is trying to take over all of America.
00:19:07.000And I think there's a sharp distinction there.
00:19:09.000So a perfect example would be what DeSantis is doing in Florida.
00:19:15.000Ron DeSantis takes up arms against Disney.
00:19:19.000And in the past, we would say, well, that's sort of alarming.
00:19:21.000A lot of conservatives, we shouldn't be singling out corporations.
00:19:25.000It should be a free and equal playing field.
00:19:28.000And of course, the problem is it's not.
00:19:30.000Big woke corporate has decided to attack half of America and insert itself into the political process.
00:19:37.000And the new right would say that means that political power will indeed need to be appropriately used to combat that political force.
00:19:46.000And so, you know, but if I just sum it up in a few words, it's people who realize how corrupt our institutions have become and our culture has become, and therefore what it will take, the bold actions it will take to save America.
00:20:02.000I'm going to get a sound here that will prove your point of Asa Hutchinson from Arkansas, who says, look, we shouldn't punish Disney versus DeSantis.
00:20:13.000It's a great contrast of old right versus new right.
00:20:16.000And so, I mean, also this kind of comes with foreign policy, though, doesn't it?
00:20:21.000One of the kind of things with JD Vance, I mean, I was there with J.D. the last couple of days campaigning with him.
00:20:26.000We did five campaign stops in the scenic tour of Ohio.
00:20:31.000And I was reflecting on the race, and JD came out and he came up pretty firm.
00:20:37.000And he said, look, I don't think we should have a no-fly zone in Ukraine.
00:20:40.000I don't think that we should over-involve ourselves or over-entangle ourselves kind of in these very complex theaters when our own country has such significant problems.
00:20:50.000Wasn't this also kind of a blow to the neoconservative establishment?
00:21:13.000But what this shows is it's not too extreme.
00:21:15.000People understand that the Republican base is one thing.
00:21:19.000And the neocons and a lot of these establishment types who are just holding on to power, they simply have no conception of where the people are at.
00:21:26.000And regular people are going, yes, why would we get so involved?
00:22:14.000And it's, we know what we want, right?
00:22:16.000We want a country that is recognizable, right?
00:22:20.000And we're willing to do what is necessary in prudent and incremental steps, if necessary, to get there, meaning we don't relish in having to use political power.
00:22:29.000I would love to live in an America where everyone kind of just did their own thing.
00:22:32.000But if I have to do that to preserve liberty and to protect children, then I'm not going to be afraid to do that.
00:22:38.000Okay, I want to play a cut here and get your reaction.
00:22:50.000Well, first of all, Disney has handled this very poorly.
00:22:54.000Secondly, the law that was passed is, to me, common sense that in those grades, those lower grades, you shouldn't be teaching sexual orientation and those matters that should not be covered at that age.
00:23:09.000But I don't believe that government should be punitive against private businesses because we disagree with them.
00:24:19.000And they're forcing, they're using the power of business, of capital to crush political dissent for private citizens and businesses, as well as politicians in the political process.
00:24:32.000So it's not even like, it's like a fish in and out of water.
00:24:37.000Like the entire landscape he describes just doesn't exist.
00:24:41.000The real world, in the real world, business and woke capital is being used to push private citizens, to push corporations, to push politicians in one direction.
00:24:53.000And there's only one way to stop that.
00:24:56.000And that is saying, no, we're going to, you want to play the game.
00:25:00.000Well, and also a favor, a handout for a certain company is by definition a punishment to another company because they don't have access to that, right?
00:26:22.000And of course, the arguments for the subsidies, I can just hear the good governor and others saying, like, whoa, Walmart does a lot of good for us, and it's good for them to be here.
00:26:33.000They decided it's bad for Disney to have those deals there.
00:26:37.000And if it was just punishment for their political views, what's the point of having a political system or democracy where you have debate and some kind of freedom if you can't punish the other side and attack them just like they're attacking you?
00:27:11.000Well, it's like, well, you know, while I've always said we're not the company of the party of corporate handouts, we need to be the party of corporate handouts.
00:27:19.000Like, actually, I don't need to take you seriously anymore, actually.
00:27:21.000Like, you're grooming five-year-olds and you lose your tax privileges.
00:27:24.000Matt, this is something I said the other day.
00:27:45.000It's just American political leaders catching up to where the people are at because the people are reacting to the landscape of reality, the aforementioned landscape of reality from the last segment.
00:27:56.000They are dealing with real problems, real people.
00:28:01.000And those problems don't necessarily match the talking points from 20 years ago in Republican think tanks in D.C.
00:28:10.000And, you know, of course, the left has become much more violent and belligerent.
00:28:15.000And so really what you're seeing is a new crop of thinkers, of leaders, of doers, of politicians who are rising to the fore to respond to the situation we find ourselves in.
00:28:28.000And I just think that's really exciting.
00:28:31.000And it's, you know, it's not going to happen all by itself, but certainly the tide is moving in this direction.
00:28:37.000And it's going to take a combination of forces and kind of the old Republican talking points.
00:28:55.000Well, there's a number of people out there who are good.
00:28:58.000And look, this is an important question because the problem right now is it's hard for regular people who are really interested in this to find the right leaders.
00:30:51.000Still, after he wins the primary, I said, and Matt, I just, I tell him this, and you know JD, and I said, just wait one year and email me back.
00:30:58.000Just one year when he's a U.S. Senator, give him 90 days.
00:31:09.000I mean, the reason that we created a PAC is because I wanted to create a super PAC to just stay outside of the usual powers that be on the right.
00:31:44.000And there's a certain element of this where Anthony Hopkins once said that he didn't believe in getting really into the character and like doing drugs to be a druggie actor, you know, kind of thing.
00:31:55.000He said, look, Catherine Hepburn once told me, just say the lines.
00:31:59.000And that's my message for politicians.
00:32:21.000And then every once in a while, after, you know, after some years go by, someone surprises you and you see, wow, this is an actual statesman.
00:32:27.000But that's the only way you have to do that.
00:32:28.000Like Ron DeSantis is a real statesman.