The Charlie Kirk Show - Unpacking Our Current Place in History with Dr. Sebastian Gorka

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, on the special Sunday episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, Dr. Sebastian Gorka in person at the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit.

00:00:07.000 Email us your questions freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:10.000 If you want to support us, it's charliekirk.com/slash support.

00:00:13.000 Dr. Gorka is here.

00:00:14.000 Buckle up.

00:00:15.000 Here we go.

00:00:16.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:18.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:20.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:23.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:27.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:28.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:29.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:37.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:46.000 That's why we are here.

00:00:50.000 Look, it's Christmas season.

00:00:51.000 And a lot of you guys are emailing us, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:55.000 How do I give back this Christmas season?

00:00:58.000 Look, I know it's been a tough year, but those of us that are Christians, we are called to help and to assist regardless of the circumstances around us.

00:01:06.000 Whether we had a blessed year or a tough year, it's time to step up and do something.

00:01:10.000 I think we all know that.

00:01:11.000 That's why we are partnering with Angeltree.

00:01:14.000 Angeltree is great.

00:01:15.000 They help kids whose parents are in prison.

00:01:18.000 It's not even about the fact of what their parents did.

00:01:20.000 It's the fact that the kids are alone.

00:01:23.000 And the kids, if they do not hear from their parents, they're more likely to also get involved in crime in the future.

00:01:29.000 So let's really communicate the love of Jesus Christ with a personalized note from their dad and an access to a Bible in either Spanish or English.

00:01:38.000 And that's what the Fellowship Angel Tree program does.

00:01:41.000 Last year, the Angel Tree program blessed over 300,000 children of prisoners all across America.

00:01:46.000 What's so cool is that if you give directly, it doesn't go to overhead or all that stuff.

00:01:49.000 It goes straight to the kid, especially this Christmas season.

00:01:52.000 And so let's just keep it easy.

00:01:54.000 Just go to charliekirk.com.

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00:01:58.000 And we are getting behind it.

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00:02:07.000 You guys can check it out and support what we are doing.

00:02:11.000 And I think that's really important because for a gift of $220, you can bless 10 children of prisoners with a personalized Christmas present and a personal note from their incarcerated parent.

00:02:22.000 Plus, every Angel Tree family is also given access to free, easy-to-read copy of the Bible in English or Spanish.

00:02:28.000 So check it out at charliekirk.com.

00:02:31.000 Very, very important.

00:02:33.000 Thank you guys so much for that.

00:02:37.000 Hey, everybody.

00:02:38.000 Welcome to this very special episode of the Charlie Kirk Show with my friend and fellow Salem Radio Network host, Dr. Gorka.

00:02:44.000 Welcome.

00:02:45.000 Thank you kindly.

00:02:45.000 Yes, indeed.

00:02:46.000 And we're so excited to have you on what we call the Salem faculty.

00:02:50.000 So that's huge, huge for us.

00:02:52.000 But let me start by saying congratulations on your engagement.

00:02:56.000 Thank you.

00:02:56.000 And congratulations on yesterday.

00:02:58.000 Incredible, incredible gala you've had this week and the fundraising.

00:03:02.000 And most important of all, I'm going to say it again for the record.

00:03:06.000 Congratulations on running the most influential cultural institution in America.

00:03:12.000 Well, that's a big empirical statement of fact.

00:03:17.000 Thank you.

00:03:17.000 Well, that means a lot, especially coming from you.

00:03:20.000 And you understand the importance of fighting this culture war.

00:03:23.000 And as we're recording this, you're about to go speak to our thousands of young people.

00:03:28.000 We'll see how many of them they let into the room.

00:03:30.000 That's a county problem.

00:03:32.000 But I want to talk a little bit about where are we as a party, if we even have a party anymore, as a country.

00:03:42.000 A lot of people are coming up to me in this moment, and I sense a lot of confusion.

00:03:46.000 I think that is the predominant word.

00:03:49.000 I just get a lot of people say, well, what next?

00:03:51.000 Is Trump going to serve another term?

00:03:53.000 Is he not?

00:03:55.000 Can you help make some clarity out of this confusion?

00:03:58.000 I can try.

00:03:59.000 First thing I'll do is I'll give you a caveat emtor kind of warning.

00:04:04.000 If anybody tells you, and I don't care who it is, an anonymous posting on social media or your best buddy that they know what's going to happen in the next month, they're lying to you or they're delusional.

00:04:17.000 I worked for the president when he was plain old Mr. Trump.

00:04:21.000 I worked with him in the White House as his strategist.

00:04:24.000 He's appointed me to one of his DOD boards.

00:04:27.000 You've been appointed to his commission.

00:04:29.000 Congratulations.

00:04:30.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

00:04:33.000 He is the most powerful man in the world, but I'll be very clear about this.

00:04:37.000 He is one man.

00:04:39.000 All I will say is stop it with the crazy phantasmagorical conspiracy theories.

00:04:47.000 He's going to declare martial law.

00:04:50.000 The Dominion machines are now being sequestered.

00:04:53.000 There's thousands of sealed indictments.

00:04:56.000 Slow down, take a deep breath, and listen to people you can trust.

00:05:00.000 I will tell you the following.

00:05:02.000 Number one, the real date that matters is January the 18th.

00:05:08.000 January the 6th, physically, it's like something out of the 1800s.

00:05:12.000 The Electoral College ballots will be transported in a box to a special joint session of Congress.

00:05:21.000 There, the ballots must be counted by the president of the Senate, who is the incumbent Vice President Mike Pence.

00:05:28.000 However, the Constitution permits, because it is the final authority on federal positions, federal elections, that every congressman and every senator can choose to not certify the individual votes.

00:05:42.000 If there's one senator, one congressman who says, I disagree, they get two hours to debate the problems with that specific state or county, and then a vote of the whole Congress has to be taken.

00:05:56.000 As such, the only date that really matters is January the 18th.

00:06:01.000 Do we have a final result of 270 electoral college mandate votes for any candidate?

00:06:09.000 If we don't, what happens?

00:06:11.000 It's happened twice before.

00:06:12.000 Thomas Jefferson is one of them.

00:06:14.000 We have a contingent election whereby the House of Representatives votes on who the president will be and the vice president is chosen by the Senate.

00:06:22.000 These are not Sebastian Gorka's opinions.

00:06:24.000 These are the constitutional potential scenarios.

00:06:27.000 Let me qualify them thusly.

00:06:31.000 It is not a simple vote of the membership of the Congress.

00:06:35.000 It is a one vote per state vote.

00:06:39.000 Right now, the GOP has the majority, 27 to 22, I believe, is the current number.

00:06:45.000 Therefore, in theory, and this is absolutely constitutional, the President of the United States could be re-elected to a second term if that happens.

00:06:54.000 Here is my input, my subjective input.

00:06:58.000 The fact that we are, what, December 19th, December 20th, and only one congressman, Mo Brooks, who was on my show last week, has said he is prepared to block or delay the certification of the Electoral College vote.

00:07:14.000 And not one senator, even Rand Paul, who gave an amazing speech here at the Gala in a very safe environment with a conservative audience, even Rand Paul, who said the election was stolen, wasn't prepared to be that second senator, means we are lacking the minimum requirement for that delay to occur.

00:07:34.000 But it can occur.

00:07:35.000 The more problematic issue is finding the majority of state, conservative states, to back the decertification, if you will, of the election and to have the president re-elected.

00:07:49.000 So I will say it to everyone: never give up hope.

00:07:53.000 I chose this country because one of the characteristics of America is that we are eternal optimists.

00:07:58.000 We never give in.

00:07:59.000 We never give up.

00:08:00.000 But I will say the president has not been given the due backing, the support of the institutional establishment.

00:08:09.000 When I was in the White House, after I left the White House, I said, and I will say it again, Donald Trump became president despite the GOP, not thanks to the GOP.

00:08:17.000 And I don't want to get you in trouble, so you can just edit it freely.

00:08:21.000 You can edit.

00:08:22.000 No, you could put it all on me.

00:08:24.000 Ronal McDaniel may be great at fundraising, but the idea that we didn't know the Democrats were going to steal this election is, of course, absurd.

00:08:32.000 And the idea that when they declared we're going to mail out 80 million unbidden mail-in ballots, the idea that we didn't post 10,000 observers with army cots and sleeping bags in every single election center in America nine months ago is an outrage and is an abnegation of the responsibility of the GOP. 0.90

00:08:54.000 We knew they were going to steal it and crying about them putting up cardboard in the windows after the vote is asinine and absurd. 0.94

00:09:03.000 So this needn't have happened.

00:09:05.000 And the fact that in the four battleground states where they clearly stopped counting because the president was winning, delayed counting until they could manufacture ballots and then started the counting again and flipped the results, the fact that those occurred in metropolis, in large conurbations that were in states with GOP-controlled state houses is likewise a travesty that we did nothing to prevent this outrage.

00:09:31.000 And I apologize for the long answer, but there's so much garbage swilling out there in the internet.

00:09:36.000 That's what it is about podcasting.

00:09:37.000 You can go as long as you want.

00:09:38.000 Right.

00:09:39.000 And so this is the constitutional potential scenarios, but also the vacuum of, I'll say this, on my show, America First, in the last nine months, I've realized I don't care what your issue is.

00:09:51.000 I don't care whether it's pro-life, building the wall, Second Amendment, big tech and First Amendment rights.

00:09:58.000 There's only one thing we lack in America, and it is sufficient courage.

00:10:04.000 Courage, the key virtue that makes the other virtues possible, is the thing that stymies us the most from being the America we should be.

00:10:15.000 So I'll go a step further.

00:10:16.000 You were warning about the mail-in ballot nonsense.

00:10:19.000 You and I did many Salem Radio Network town halls.

00:10:22.000 I remember in particular one in Los Angeles and Florida.

00:10:25.000 And you and I agreed completely, but you were very insistent that President Trump will win.

00:10:30.000 But the unknown are all these ballots being sent all over the place.

00:10:34.000 Dr. Gorka, I feel as if I'm living through one of the most frustrating political moments in American history because we identified the problem.

00:10:41.000 We talked about the problem.

00:10:42.000 We said what needs to be fixed, yet no one did anything.

00:10:45.000 How's that possible?

00:10:46.000 Yeah, it's let me be very explicit for the record again.

00:10:53.000 I don't need thousands of, I mean, God bless Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Joe DeGenova, Victoria Tansing, the president's legal team, who are a tiny, I feel like I'm watching a version of when we walked into the White House on January 21st after the election, this merry band of insurgents in the middle of this swamp.

00:11:16.000 I see this tiny group of lawyers fighting the good fight with Commissioner Bernie Kerry.

00:11:21.000 And they have to do all that.

00:11:23.000 They have to get the affidavits.

00:11:25.000 They have to show the video from the suitcases in Georgia.

00:11:27.000 But at the end of the day, I don't need any evidence.

00:11:30.000 Nobody needs evidence that it was stolen.

00:11:33.000 Donald Trump gained the most votes of any president in American history. 0.94

00:11:39.000 He garnered at least 13 million more votes than he did four years ago, despite four years of calumny and libel, calling him a Islamophobe, a misogynist, a white supremacist Nazi.

00:11:51.000 He got 13 million more votes despite that. 0.65

00:11:54.000 And we are supposed to believe that a cognitively challenged, decrepit machine politician of 47 years hiding in his basement got more votes than the first black American president. 0.87

00:12:05.000 That's the evidence that this was stolen. 0.69

00:12:08.000 To your point of you and I and others rang the bell that there is a massive election fraud coming down the pike and nothing happened.

00:12:21.000 I'm not dodging the question.

00:12:24.000 It circles back to courage.

00:12:27.000 All of this could have been solved.

00:12:29.000 Every state house in America could have said, no, Mr. Governor, no, Mr. State Secretary, no, Mr. Local Election Official, you are not permitted to mail out those ballots.

00:12:38.000 No, you are not permitted to count ballots without a postmark.

00:12:40.000 No, you are not permitted to wait six days for ballots to arrive after the end of the election at midnight.

00:12:50.000 All of that could have happened.

00:12:51.000 It didn't happen.

00:12:52.000 Why? 0.99

00:12:54.000 Because we have cowards. 0.99

00:12:55.000 We have cowards in the establishment right down to local state and county level. 0.98

00:13:02.000 So this is a small thing, but it's actually, I think, an indication of a bigger thing.

00:13:07.000 So you know where Brian Kemp was a couple days ago?

00:13:10.000 Tell me.

00:13:11.000 The White House Christmas Party.

00:13:12.000 Wow.

00:13:15.000 Not only was Brian Kemp at the White House Christmas Party, a friend of mine, and I'm not going to mention his name, but you can work it out, who has the only morning, the only radio show out of D.C. in the morning that is nationally syndicated, and he's a very good friend of mine.

00:13:33.000 I had dinner with him a week ago, and he just, he didn't, his wife said, and she was very angry.

00:13:39.000 She said, my husband is the only conservative radio host in D.C.

00:13:46.000 And we have not received an invitation to the White House Christmas for four years running.

00:13:54.000 Now, I'm not here to criticize the president and his team, but I'll tell you what happened when we walked into the White House.

00:14:00.000 And I don't think it's changed.

00:14:02.000 When we walked into the White House, it truly was a merry band of insurgents.

00:14:08.000 And there maybe were, with me, Steve, and a few others, there were maybe less than 20 people in senior positions.

00:14:18.000 So I mean DAP or AP, so I mean deputy assistant to the president or assistant to president.

00:14:23.000 There were maybe 15, 16 who were senior positions and loyal to not the president, but loyal to the MAGA agenda.

00:14:33.000 You wrote the book, MAGA Doctrine.

00:14:35.000 It's not about a man.

00:14:36.000 It's about the forgotten men and women.

00:14:38.000 So there may be 15 or 16 of us.

00:14:41.000 And then what?

00:14:42.000 And it's not an exaggeration.

00:14:43.000 Then there were dozens and dozens of 21-year-olds who had run the front office and then nothing.

00:14:50.000 And what happened in the meantime?

00:14:53.000 The vacuum, the massive chasm between the handful of people who are loyal to the vision and understood why this non-politician won.

00:15:02.000 And the kids at the bottom were filled with what over the next four years?

00:15:07.000 Bushies and never Trumpers.

00:15:10.000 The day I realized that a senior political appointee in the press office hated the president, that was when I realized you've willingly taken a political...

00:15:23.000 We, the technical term, are politically commissioned officers of the president.

00:15:29.000 That is a position of trust.

00:15:30.000 You get a big commissioning letter signed by the commander-in-chief, and this person accepted that job as a political appointee whilst he hated the president and stayed there for three years.

00:15:44.000 Charlie, that's the problem.

00:15:47.000 You know, whatever happens on January the 20th, the reason you will remain, and Turning Point will remain the most important institution in America, is because you are building the bench that nobody, and I'm not here to chastise people by name.

00:16:04.000 The whole conservative movement failed to build a bench for about 40 years.

00:16:09.000 We have big names who fund Turning Point USA and all kinds of things across America, who literally have burnt billions of dollars in the last 40 years with another full-page ad in the Washington Times that means nothing, funding two sides of the same issue without realizing they're funding both sides of the same issue.

00:16:29.000 And we didn't build a bench, Charlie.

00:16:32.000 You are giving an inkling of how we build that bench.

00:16:36.000 And this is if God willing he gets a second term, the biggest problem will be who's going to run the administration.

00:16:44.000 There's 4,000 political appointees.

00:16:47.000 We don't have 4,000 patriots who are prepared to go into the swamp.

00:16:51.000 Because what happens when you go into the swamp?

00:16:53.000 They destroy you.

00:16:54.000 I've been there.

00:16:55.000 And I can say this: two thoughts.

00:16:56.000 The first, the Brian Kemp example: if there were people that were loyal to the president, it would have been a top-down order that not just Brian Kemp and his family is not invited to the White House Christmas party, that he gets a clear uninvitation.

00:17:09.000 Yes.

00:17:10.000 And it's well known publicly.

00:17:12.000 And if he dares to show up, they say, sir, you're not allowed on White House grounds.

00:17:15.000 Instead, Brian Kemp is smirking and smiling at the White House Christmas party on Twitter a couple days ago.

00:17:22.000 And it might have been an oversight.

00:17:23.000 Okay.

00:17:24.000 But think about how many levels of command of people that saw Brian Kemp walk by.

00:17:29.000 And no one thought to say, why is he here?

00:17:31.000 What's going on here?

00:17:32.000 He had to get check in at the security gate.

00:17:34.000 You know, it's not an easy thing.

00:17:37.000 And from the personnel side, I was very much involved.

00:17:40.000 I tried to get some of our turning point people in, and we had some successes.

00:17:44.000 But I can tell you that personnel is policy.

00:17:47.000 Yes.

00:17:48.000 And Morton Blackwell talks about this quite a lot.

00:17:50.000 And God bless Morton.

00:17:51.000 He's one of the good guys.

00:17:53.000 And if you're not able to actually implement faithful and loyal people, then you're actually not going to be able to properly staff these institutions.

00:18:00.000 And I think that's part of where people have to really focus moving forward: regardless how this thing shakes out, is if we do not have the human beings, the beating hearts to fight this war, but you got a bunch of multi-billion dollar endowments or whatever, then what exactly do you have?

00:18:19.000 It's not so, so let's be clear.

00:18:21.000 Let's identify the pieces of this jigsaw puzzle that has only a couple of pieces in it.

00:18:28.000 This isn't one of your Christmas grandma's gift of a thousand pieces.

00:18:32.000 There's about two or three pieces.

00:18:34.000 Number one is personnel.

00:18:35.000 It's a cliche, but it's one of the true clichés, but personalized policy.

00:18:39.000 Secondly, you know this.

00:18:43.000 I know this, but I don't think those who voted for Donald Trump understand this.

00:18:49.000 The establishment conservative movement either thinks that he is an anomaly who will disappear and economic nationalism isn't real and is not required and everything will snap back to the way it was,

00:19:08.000 or these are individuals who can't even think in terms of forgotten men and women, who, for them, it doesn't cross the transom of their mind why Hillbilly Elegy is the reason Donald Trump got elected.

00:19:24.000 And let's be clear here: JD Vance is no Trump supporter.

00:19:27.000 I think he's getting closer to understanding it.

00:19:30.000 I don't read autobiographies, but thanks to Steve Bannon, I read Hillbilly Elegy over Thanksgiving weekend, and that's when I realized when both sides of the political divide for 50 years decide it's okay to dismantle middle America and export those jobs to China and import the fentanyl, that's why you get Donald Trump.

00:19:57.000 Not because Donald Trump was ripe for it, but because America said enough with both sides of the aisle.

00:20:04.000 And the political elite on our side to this day has no comprehension of what is Gorka talking about Hillbilly Elegy.

00:20:15.000 It's on Netflix now.

00:20:16.000 They've made it a movie or a TV show or a movie.

00:20:21.000 So here's our third piece of the jigsaw puzzle.

00:20:26.000 And this is the thing that excited me the most.

00:20:28.000 You're a big picture thinker.

00:20:29.000 I love strategy and history.

00:20:32.000 How is it that for four years, not one entity, I love the guys at AmericanGreatness.com.

00:20:38.000 I love, there's a few sites out there that try to do this, but there's been no national push to define what is it to me to say I am a conservative in the 21st century.

00:20:51.000 How do we, Reagan did this.

00:20:53.000 When Reagan won, there was this organic seeding of thought, of think tanks, of debate, of publications from human events to national interest, on and on and on.

00:21:06.000 In the last four years, it's like, oh, the weird guy won the election.

00:21:12.000 Don't worry, he'll leave in a few years and it's all going to snap back.

00:21:16.000 No, it's not.

00:21:17.000 Politics is, whether it's Modi in India, whether it's Brexit in the UK, this is the global trend, but the GOP has no idea.

00:21:26.000 Well, it's because the incentive structures are to stop it, though.

00:21:29.000 It's the capital flows are in the favor of stopping Donald Trump.

00:21:33.000 Where Donald Trump would bring value and higher and rising wages to middle America, it actually might mean compromising government contracts for some corporation that is funding a lot of the intellectual material that we're doing.

00:21:46.000 Or making it harder for American businesses to do business with a communist dictatorship like China that has labor camps.

00:21:52.000 Yeah, it's just China happens to be the happens to be the economic multiplier for not very skilled business people that have no patriotic underpinning.

00:22:02.000 I mean, you can't even think in terms of what the damage they are doing to America. 0.72

00:22:07.000 No, but exactly. 0.97

00:22:08.000 And it doesn't take a lot of skill to go heartlessly to a factory in Fort Wynne, Indiana, announce that it's being closed and move those jobs to Wuhan.

00:22:17.000 They make it really easy.

00:22:19.000 And all of a sudden you close that market or you make it harder in that market.

00:22:22.000 You get very angry CEOs.

00:22:24.000 And here's the one thing.

00:22:26.000 They really hated Trump, not because of his style and all that.

00:22:28.000 They use that to message to people that don't think they hated him because he was a threat to the capital flows, to the ruling class.

00:22:35.000 Let's be clear about why Donald Trump, and this is something I'm working on right now.

00:22:42.000 I'm writing a piece on why they had to destroy him.

00:22:46.000 They had to destroy him, very simply, because literally nobody owns him.

00:22:52.000 Not big pharma.

00:22:53.000 I mean, look at, have you ever, could you imagine before Donald Trump a president talking about big pharma the way he talks publicly about big pharma?

00:23:00.000 That used to be a Michael Moore fringe thing.

00:23:02.000 Right.

00:23:02.000 About how evil, how they, quote, screw Americans.

00:23:06.000 He's right. 0.98

00:23:07.000 Right.

00:23:07.000 No, that's the whole point.

00:23:08.000 He's right.

00:23:09.000 But it was anathema to us to expect a president to do that.

00:23:14.000 So whether it's big tech, whether it's big pharma, whether it's the unions, nobody owns this man.

00:23:20.000 Therefore, it's a circular firing squad from all sides. 0.99

00:23:23.000 He must be destroyed.

00:23:25.000 So I want to ask you about one of those because I think we actually might find something.

00:23:28.000 I don't know if we disagree, but you and I talked about this briefly on radio, and I wanted to get into it.

00:23:32.000 It's a big tech issue.

00:23:33.000 Yes.

00:23:34.000 So I can't remember really where we didn't completely align, but I said something of the sense that we need a digital bill of rights or we need some form of a breakup of these companies.

00:23:46.000 I used a line with you that I got from a caller that made me stop and has sunk in my mind.

00:23:53.000 And this is the line I used with you.

00:23:55.000 And we could talk about it.

00:23:56.000 I don't have any special knowledge.

00:23:58.000 We were talking about breaking them up, and a caller to America First said, Well, Dr. G, why would breaking Facebook up into 100 little Facebooks, why would that result in any conservative Facebooks?

00:24:13.000 You just have 100 liberal Facebooks.

00:24:16.000 Why would you have a correction?

00:24:18.000 And it's a very interesting concept, right?

00:24:20.000 I think that baby Bell, there's no political element of whether your phone is run by one national company or by one that covers three counties.

00:24:32.000 But when the entity you're breaking up is by dint of its essence political, which is Facebook, which is YouTube, which is Google, where would the corrective come from?

00:24:42.000 And it's an interesting question.

00:24:43.000 And I think it's less clear.

00:24:44.000 I think the driving motivation for me and for other people is stunning that this guy actually listens to conversations and then can recreate them six months later.

00:24:55.000 This is like, this is why you have the podcast you have.

00:24:57.000 Sorry.

00:24:57.000 Thank you.

00:24:58.000 No, it's okay.

00:24:59.000 It's great.

00:24:59.000 And so, no, I think the driving motivation for me, though, is we must stop their exponential growth at almost all costs.

00:25:07.000 And I think, and I have no idea.

00:25:09.000 That's my driving motivation.

00:25:11.000 Totally.

00:25:11.000 But my answer is: first things first, the Supreme Court decision from 1972 or 74 that basically made libel impossible in America has to be returned to.

00:25:22.000 The New York Times decision, right?

00:25:24.000 The idea that when somebody lies about you, you have zero recourse unless you can prove in a court of law that they did.

00:25:33.000 That they knew it was a lie when they published it.

00:25:36.000 Nobody, we're not Vulcans.

00:25:37.000 We can't read people's minds.

00:25:40.000 So this is absurd.

00:25:41.000 We need British libel laws where if you cross the line and you're the platform, you will be crushed with the weight of a 500%.

00:25:47.000 I was going to say, I actually think we could learn from the Brits on this.

00:25:50.000 So libel laws and also this, what is it, the 230 Act, yeah.

00:25:57.000 That has to be rescinded yesterday.

00:25:59.000 And it wasn't ever even meant for.

00:26:01.000 So just what people understand, this was in 1996.

00:26:04.000 The internet was not even.

00:26:05.000 Two years old.

00:26:06.000 Yeah.

00:26:07.000 And so it was actually originally meant for telecom companies who were talking about creating not what social media is, but they were thinking about creating like chat discussion areas.

00:26:19.000 For MySpace or for TV chats.

00:26:21.000 And it was in a very esoteric, very theoretical way.

00:26:26.000 I guess where my other concern, though, is what's happening with these tech companies.

00:26:32.000 And I have a whole theory, we have a whole thesis, and we built this out on the Charlie Kirk show: that the true power source in our country is Menlo Park in San Francisco.

00:26:39.000 It's not Washington.

00:26:40.000 Absolutely.

00:26:40.000 It's where Eric Swalwell, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, Zuckerberg.

00:26:44.000 You really look at who's in charge.

00:26:46.000 It's billionaires.

00:26:47.000 It's the San Francisco people.

00:26:48.000 It's billionaires.

00:26:49.000 And somebody made this point to me last week who never really understood what it takes to build wealth.

00:26:56.000 That's right.

00:26:57.000 It just literally fell into their laps.

00:27:00.000 Mark Zuckerberg, you know, you can't compare him to a Carnegie or a Mellon or J.P. Morgan.

00:27:06.000 It is.

00:27:08.000 The earned wealth, when you earn your wealth and it doesn't fall on your lap because of some tech innovation, it's let me share this story with.

00:27:17.000 So, if you're not familiar, one of the biggest problems you face, and we all face in America, is the misunderstanding the younger generations have of what is capitalism, what real capitalism is.

00:27:32.000 And this idea that capitalism is rampant profit acquisition, incorrect.

00:27:37.000 If you read Bastiat, if you read Michael Novak, then you really understand that capitalism's inherent core is a moral compass.

00:27:49.000 And let me share this personal example.

00:27:51.000 So, my wife's family until recently owned the oldest family-owned steel company in America.

00:27:59.000 They built the cast iron girders that the first skyscrapers in New York were built with.

00:28:05.000 And because she's a woman of letters, her brother, who was president of the company about five years ago, commissioned her to write the history.

00:28:13.000 So, the history book on Cornell Ironworks.

00:28:15.000 She sat down for a whole year researching it, and he gave her access to all the corporate filings of the corporate archive.

00:28:23.000 And she went back to these massive ledges, these huge table-sized ledges from the 18th century, and she went through them.

00:28:31.000 And she finds in the early 20th century, after the Wall Street crash hit, for six years, her great-great-great-grandfather took no wage as president of Cornell Ironworks so he could pump his wage back in to pay the people who weren't building the girders for the skyscrapers because nobody was commissioning them.

00:28:56.000 Why did he do that?

00:28:58.000 Because he felt as the creator of that company, these people had built something with him and he was morally bound to help them feed their children for the next six years.

00:29:09.000 That's free market capitalism informed by a moral compass.

00:29:13.000 What children have been taught for 40 years is, no, it's just rampant greed till the next quarter.

00:29:18.000 And even if you take the criticism, it was also in his self-interest to do that because eventually he was going to turn a profit by delayed gratification.

00:29:27.000 Right.

00:29:27.000 Instead of the next quarter, how many people can he rape in terms of profit?

00:29:31.000 And we don't build companies like that anymore, which is the other issue.

00:29:35.000 There's nothing durable.

00:29:36.000 Yeah, and so the Zuckerberg Menlo Park people, they actually don't create companies of hardware, things you can touch.

00:29:44.000 And not to say that there's not some ingenuity or breakthrough in Google, but a lot of it is just ephemeral.

00:29:49.000 Yeah, it's surveillance capitalism, basically.

00:29:52.000 That's a great phrase.

00:29:53.000 It's how you can monitor people's behavior.

00:29:55.000 Well, not only that, I mean, I didn't come up with this, and this is our conventional wisdom, but it's turning your alleged customer into the product.

00:30:04.000 That's exactly.

00:30:04.000 That's all they've done.

00:30:05.000 I mean, and what we agree to is asinine. 0.91

00:30:09.000 I mean, you get the update on your iPhone, nobody reads it. 0.60

00:30:12.000 It's 20 pages of, you know, you are the product, and you say, agree to terms.

00:30:15.000 So I guess my question is, what would you be, what do you think is the correct course of action against these?

00:30:20.000 We agree on the problem.

00:30:21.000 They have too much power, they have too much influence, and they're all very, very non-compatible with American business.

00:30:26.000 I think Resinda, the 230, libel, it's going to take 10, it's going to take five to 10 years, libel law reform in the United States.

00:30:37.000 And then lastly, I think a forced monopoly cartel breakup.

00:30:41.000 Oh, so you do support it?

00:30:42.000 I do.

00:30:42.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:30:44.000 But it's got to be a real AG bar.

00:30:46.000 It's got to be a real, somebody who comes and says, no, this is wrong and breaks it up.

00:30:50.000 The idea, think about it.

00:30:52.000 If you get canceled by Google and you're a content provider, goodbye.

00:30:58.000 You have no bill of rest.

00:30:59.000 You've gone.

00:31:00.000 Bye-bye.

00:31:01.000 Bye-bye.

00:31:01.000 Your whole livelihood disappears instantaneously.

00:31:03.000 That's it.

00:31:04.000 Yeah.

00:31:04.000 I think it's the number one threat to all their freedoms right now.

00:31:07.000 I really do.

00:31:08.000 I mean, it would be the equivalent in the early 1900s if you had no capacity to protest, run for office, write to your local editor.

00:31:18.000 Publish a pamphlet.

00:31:19.000 Yes, if that was all just being suppressed by a group of robber barons.

00:31:23.000 That's basically the thing.

00:31:24.000 Imagine if there was one pamphlet publisher.

00:31:27.000 That's basically where we are.

00:31:28.000 That's where we are.

00:31:29.000 But it's even worse.

00:31:29.000 It's how you search where the pamphlets are.

00:31:31.000 Yes, right.

00:31:32.000 It's one pamphlet publisher who owned the libraries.

00:31:35.000 So these are portals into something else.

00:31:38.000 Correct.

00:31:39.000 And so by controlling the portal, they can distort what you're actually looking at.

00:31:43.000 And so they actually customize Google search based on who's searching.

00:31:47.000 And where you are.

00:31:49.000 Do this.

00:31:50.000 And everybody who listens to Charlie is incredibly informed.

00:31:54.000 But if you really want to see the level, the invidious depth of where we are today, and it is beyond, it truly is beyond.

00:32:01.000 As the child of those who escaped communism, it is truly beyond anything that George Orwell, Arthur Kersler, or anybody else envisaged.

00:32:09.000 To pick any topic, it truly doesn't matter whether it's the border, whether it's taxation policy, whether it's Planned Parenthood, any topic, any topic, and put the phrase into Google.

00:32:24.000 And find out on which page a conservative or a non-legacy media article appears.

00:32:31.000 That's exactly right.

00:32:33.000 It'll be maybe, depending on the topic, it'll be between page three and page nine, if you're lucky.

00:32:39.000 And by the way, let me just add: 90%, more than 90% of Google users never go past page one of a search engine.

00:32:49.000 Which means what?

00:32:51.000 They control it.

00:32:52.000 They will give you to see what they want you to see.

00:32:55.000 And it stunts discovery.

00:32:56.000 So, for example, we reach millions of people at Turning Point.

00:32:59.000 You reach millions of people on radio.

00:33:01.000 I want you to imagine if there's an independent voter who's listening to you driving to work or driving home from work and they say, huh, border wall, that makes sense.

00:33:12.000 Or Trump. 0.99

00:33:13.000 And they type it into Google and they're like, oh, that Gorka guy's full of crap because look at all this stuff. 0.99

00:33:18.000 It stunts discovery. 0.98

00:33:19.000 Exactly.

00:33:20.000 And it prevents potential converts.

00:33:22.000 So what they have is basically the last line of defense before a conversion actually happens.

00:33:28.000 Now, we're still doing plenty of, we're turning plenty of minds, but imagine what the country would look like if you had balanced search in that capacity.

00:33:35.000 Let me ask you, let me turn the tables on you because this is something that troubles me greatly.

00:33:40.000 We're so excited to have you at Sambel and for all the demographic reasons that that entails.

00:33:45.000 But talk radio is a very specific demo, and you know that.

00:33:49.000 Podcasting is very different.

00:33:50.000 YouTube is very different.

00:33:52.000 And I'll be talking before Dennis tonight, Dennis Prager, who, like you, has done an incredible service to this nation.

00:33:58.000 PragueU.

00:34:00.000 What have you found?

00:34:01.000 Because you've been doing this for what, seven years now?

00:34:04.000 Turning point.

00:34:05.000 Yeah.

00:34:05.000 Eight and a half.

00:34:06.000 Eight and a half.

00:34:08.000 What is it?

00:34:10.000 The six-minute videos?

00:34:13.000 Is it the convince me I'm wrong, you know, at the campus table?

00:34:18.000 What have you found has had most penetrative effect in terms of what you just mentioned?

00:34:25.000 Yeah, the entry of the discussion.

00:34:27.000 So the most effective content that we have that we produce is real life, unfiltered conversations of back and forth that are entertaining issues that people aren't supposed to be talking about.

00:34:42.000 The forboden topics.

00:34:43.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:34:43.000 And there's a couple of us kind of in this space that have kind of made names for ourselves doing this.

00:34:48.000 Ben Shapiro, Steven Frowder, and myself, and maybe Michael Knowles, a couple other people.

00:34:54.000 And just by the space that we're in, we're always running into this nonsense, and then you catalog it.

00:35:01.000 I will say, though, that the people that are listening to this program, there are hundreds of thousands of people that listen to us every couple of days and millions of people a month.

00:35:14.000 They enjoy longer form.

00:35:15.000 And that's where podcast really lives.

00:35:17.000 There's longer form, unfiltered conversation as if they're just kind of listening in.

00:35:21.000 But if I'm trying to really kind of catch the attention of a TikTok teen who's 16 or 17 years old, when I'm on campus at University of Oregon and some, let's just say, very, like, it's unknown what gender this person is just starts screaming at me, saying there's a hundred genders.

00:35:39.000 And I'm able to ask very rational questions.

00:35:42.000 And then what ends up happening is you have kind of the modern day political equivalent of the Roman Coliseum, right?

00:35:49.000 Where everyone's watching who's going to win.

00:35:52.000 But is it a function?

00:35:55.000 Is what you're doing the Charlie Kirk destroys whatever.

00:36:01.000 Or are you actually opening somebody to ask the right questions?

00:36:07.000 Can you define?

00:36:08.000 Can you divine that?

00:36:09.000 Yeah, I mean, we, you mean like in how we package it?

00:36:12.000 No, the effect it has on the viewer.

00:36:14.000 Is there any way to measure that?

00:36:15.000 Yes and no.

00:36:16.000 I can tell you that that has more capacity for conversion than I think people give credit for.

00:36:22.000 Good.

00:36:22.000 And some of it is kind of for the base, people that just need to keep being fed, and they do, by the way.

00:36:28.000 They need to keep seeing it.

00:36:29.000 They have the arguments and all of that.

00:36:31.000 It increases the virality because, regardless of politics, everyone loves to see a good decimation.

00:36:36.000 Smoked down.

00:36:36.000 Yeah.

00:36:37.000 Everyone loves to see a good, proper, you know, prosecution of bad ideas, no matter what your politics are, no matter what you, you know, how you think.

00:36:44.000 But I will say that the three to six minute, unfiltered, I'm on a campus or I'm doing an event and this person has a question, and we have hundreds of millions of views with some of this stuff.

00:36:54.000 It's incredible.

00:36:56.000 The most successful on it, though, is the, they're the one that ask a ridiculous, provocative, insulting question, and I give a rational, calm response. 0.54

00:37:05.000 Yes.

00:37:06.000 And this is the other thing: that style matters a lot more than substance in the eyes of a viewer.

00:37:12.000 Substance comes with time.

00:37:13.000 Substance is what podcasting's for.

00:37:15.000 Substance is multiple episodes diving into data and research.

00:37:18.000 Instead, it's the archetype of very, very angry, emotional liberal who really is not well informed, but has a lot of opinions that tries to challenge a conservative worldview that's rational and thoughtful and respectful.

00:37:33.000 And stays in control.

00:37:34.000 Yeah.

00:37:34.000 And that's very much within what I think has really benefited, like it's not just benefited our audience and kind of how we communicate, but it's just the way the world is.

00:37:44.000 It's like we're just capturing everyone's Thanksgiving, right?

00:37:47.000 And we're right.

00:37:49.000 And so the best content is also relatable content.

00:37:51.000 That's why people, that's where you get humor from.

00:37:54.000 People laugh because things are true, but people also enjoy the content here because they can see themselves in that kind of discussion.

00:38:01.000 Fabulous.

00:38:02.000 Thank you.

00:38:02.000 That helps me.

00:38:03.000 Yeah.

00:38:03.000 No, you got it.

00:38:04.000 Yeah.

00:38:04.000 So, in closing, before we get on stage, how can people support you?

00:38:08.000 I wish we could talk longer, but.

00:38:09.000 Well, first things first, I'll just quote my muse is my wife of Nat and I on now 24 years.

00:38:20.000 And I'll quote what she said last night after she heard you speak at Mar-a-Lago.

00:38:25.000 Charlie is doing God's work, and he is doing God's work.

00:38:30.000 So if you are in a position to support him, not just listen to the podcast, you've got to support Turning Point USA.

00:38:36.000 And if you're in his demographic, if you're young, you've got to join, you've got to organize, create that chapter, because that is how we save the republic that we dearly love, which is to this day the greatest nation on God's earth.

00:38:52.000 So Charlie's number one, him and his team.

00:38:55.000 For me, I have a daily radio show, America First.

00:38:58.000 It's with Salem Radio.

00:38:59.000 We live stream it on YouTube.

00:39:00.000 We're everywhere.

00:39:01.000 YouTube, we're on Rumble, Parlor, Twitter, Facebook.

00:39:06.000 And I've got my website, which is sebgorka.com.

00:39:08.000 That's S-E-B-G-O-R-K-A, sebgorka.com.

00:39:12.000 Very good.

00:39:13.000 Well, Dr. Gorka, you're going to give a great speech tonight, I'm sure.

00:39:15.000 And God willing.

00:39:17.000 Thanks again for joining the Charlie Kirk show.

00:39:18.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:39:21.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:39:23.000 Email us your questions.

00:39:24.000 As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:39:26.000 If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com.

00:39:29.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:39:31.000 More big episodes coming soon.

00:39:33.000 God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 20, 2020

Unpacking Our Current Place in History with Dr. Sebastian Gorka

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