The Charlie Kirk Show - Was MLK a Good Christian? A Discussion and Debate with Bishop Aubrey Shines

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 My conversation with Bishop Aubrey Shines.

00:00:03.000 We talk about black history, MLK.

00:00:06.000 We also talk about Donald Trump and eight questions people ask about race.

00:00:09.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:26.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:26.000 Here we go.

00:00:27.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:26.000 Hey, everybody, welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:29.000 With us is a new but good friend, Bishop Aubrey Shines.

00:01:34.000 Bishop, welcome.

00:01:35.000 Fantastic being here, Charlie.

00:01:37.000 Looking forward to this dialogue.

00:01:38.000 Really am.

00:01:39.000 So we did a segment on Martin Luther King.

00:01:44.000 Okay.

00:01:45.000 And it got a lot of attention.

00:01:47.000 And you were one of the few people that were so loving and truthful to call me up and say, Charlie, let's meet.

00:01:55.000 Yeah.

00:01:56.000 Yeah.

00:01:56.000 And we had a great meeting about that and about many things.

00:02:00.000 And I want to dive right into it.

00:02:01.000 But first, why don't you introduce yourself, kind of the work you do, but I wanted to make sure we frame the conversation.

00:02:06.000 And you know, this is always a difficult part, isn't it?

00:02:08.000 When someone says, hey, tell us what do you do?

00:02:11.000 You know, we all have those of us that have it.

00:02:13.000 Oh, I hate it.

00:02:14.000 I know, don't you?

00:02:15.000 Because you feel like, is this going to sound like some self-aggrandizement type of moment?

00:02:20.000 Am I boasting a building?

00:02:22.000 So I'm fortunate, Charlie.

00:02:23.000 I'm able to shepherd over 21 different ethnic groups every single Sunday in the beautiful city of Tampa.

00:02:35.000 Very diverse group, very conservative group.

00:02:38.000 Outside of that, maybe some of your viewers recognize I was, and I hate saying this part because, again, it sounds like I'm patting myself like I'm having some sort of egomaniacal moment here.

00:02:49.000 But I was the only clergy ever that Hillary Clinton put in her book by name as to the reason she lost her election.

00:03:00.000 I have that honor.

00:03:01.000 So I'm not sure where else to go with that.

00:03:03.000 I worked within the Trump campaign, going from state to state, speaking.

00:03:07.000 And I didn't know that I was a white racist until I started doing that.

00:03:13.000 I had no idea about it.

00:03:16.000 And that's no reflection on my Jewish mom, but I just didn't know that I was a racist. 0.99

00:03:21.000 You're a white supremacist. 0.99

00:03:22.000 I'm a white supremacist. 1.00

00:03:23.000 I know, I know.

00:03:24.000 And so I don't, I'm not big on the black and white thing.

00:03:28.000 I see myself as a Christian, just with a different ethnicity than some.

00:03:33.000 I have a good mix of both black and Jew that's there.

00:03:37.000 So I don't know.

00:03:38.000 I think there's too much made of the whole, quote, ethnic breakdown. 1.00

00:03:43.000 I think it's good. 0.93

00:03:44.000 I think it's something that all of us should address. 0.95

00:03:46.000 I don't believe in multiple races.

00:03:48.000 I believe there's only one human race.

00:03:50.000 And I think God made that race. 0.87

00:03:51.000 I think it's pretty clear about that.

00:03:53.000 So those are some of the things we do.

00:03:55.000 Outside of every week, I am the voice of America Shines on Real America.

00:04:01.000 I've seen it on Real America.

00:04:02.000 That's where some people might recognize you.

00:04:03.000 Yeah, hopefully.

00:04:04.000 Hopefully, not on the cops most wanted list or anything like that.

00:04:07.000 I've not had that distinction, so I'm not interested in that.

00:04:11.000 So, those are some of the things that we do.

00:04:14.000 So, Bishop, I want to thank you for being here.

00:04:17.000 This is just going to be really great for me and for the audience because we, you know, when we first talked on the phone, I obviously knew of you and watched your program.

00:04:25.000 And within the first five minutes, you say, you know, I am the one clergy who Hillary Clinton blamed.

00:04:30.000 I said, I like this guy.

00:04:32.000 So, it made me take everything you said even more seriously.

00:04:34.000 Really, sure, sure.

00:04:35.000 And so, you know, you said, hey, Charlie, let's meet.

00:04:38.000 And we had this great meeting.

00:04:39.000 I thought it was really wonderful.

00:04:41.000 And just so everyone knows, you can go back and listen to the Martin Luther King episode.

00:04:45.000 Happy to do that.

00:04:46.000 But no reason to rehash that.

00:04:48.000 But I think, you know, Bishop, here's the best way I could frame it.

00:04:51.000 Tell me what I missed.

00:04:55.000 And I don't mean that as a gotcha.

00:04:56.000 No, no, no.

00:04:57.000 No, and I don't take it at that.

00:04:59.000 I think we're all guilty of this.

00:05:02.000 Let me start here.

00:05:03.000 I think often all of us speak from some cutout that we've learned somewhere.

00:05:10.000 I think all of us, if we're intellectually honest, I think we go back over our lives and we realize, wait a minute, I meant exactly what I said, but maybe I should have considered the following.

00:05:21.000 Maybe this part of this speech or this line was true, but was at all that there was to it.

00:05:29.000 And that's when I heard what you said, it wasn't a matter of gotcha kind of a moment.

00:05:35.000 I did wonder, does Charlie know the following?

00:05:39.000 And I think that's where our dialogue began.

00:05:41.000 And I think, and I want to say this, not just to you, because I have, but I want to make sure that your audience get it, and especially those that hate you, because it's hard for me to imagine that people look at us and they actually hate what we're doing.

00:05:56.000 It's always a gotcha moment, especially with those who hate Christianity, those who hate a conservative movement.

00:06:03.000 Our country.

00:06:04.000 Oh my God, which in my opinion, Charlie, goes hand in hand.

00:06:08.000 So I looked at the MLK thing, and let's just kind of segment and let's kind of break some of this down here.

00:06:15.000 Did King ever have a left-leaning history?

00:06:22.000 Let's deal with that.

00:06:23.000 And I ask you this, and I often have done this when I've done lectures before.

00:06:28.000 Let's play a game.

00:06:29.000 And to the audience, I want you to just consider, because all of us are right now, we're playing what's called Monday morning quarterback.

00:06:36.000 That's what we're really doing.

00:06:38.000 But let's put ourselves, let's make all of us with the same skin reflection as King. 0.57

00:06:45.000 Let's go back in the 50s. 0.50

00:06:47.000 Let's go to the 40s.

00:06:48.000 Let's go to the 60s. 0.98

00:06:51.000 King was hurting as most blacks were. 0.87

00:06:55.000 I'm not talking just economically.

00:06:57.000 Here he believed in a system that was blind.

00:07:01.000 It should have been as related to the law.

00:07:04.000 Here, this great statue says, hey, come in.

00:07:08.000 I'm not going to see you as anything other than we're going to base this great republic on just pure laws. 1.00

00:07:15.000 Blacks are following the laws, but they're not the recipient of those laws. 0.98

00:07:19.000 So I ask your audience to consider this, not from a 2024 perspective, but let's go back to the 50s. 1.00

00:07:27.000 Make yourself black just for the sake of argument. 0.88

00:07:30.000 If the very Constitution that you know is proper and right and beautiful, but it's not working for you, why wouldn't any of us consider another way out? 1.00

00:07:43.000 After all, it's not working.

00:07:44.000 And this was what I agreed with and still do.

00:07:49.000 And if I could say it differently, it's that if you live under permanent racial segregation, which is evil, it can create a sense of bitterness.

00:07:57.000 Of course.

00:07:57.000 And it can lead you to, dare I say, some, let's say, diet Marxist ideas.

00:08:02.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:06.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:09:09.000 Yeah.

00:09:10.000 Is that what you're saying?

00:09:11.000 Of course, I had to look at my own life.

00:09:16.000 I was raised in a very successful when my dad was living, very successful business home.

00:09:21.000 I'll never forget, and I think I may have shared this story with you.

00:09:25.000 I remember coming home one day from high school, had a great history teacher, and she was teaching things.

00:09:30.000 And my dad was really good at teaching facts and life and history and business and all those kinds of things.

00:09:35.000 But she exposed me to some of the more horrible things that were happening in the nation.

00:09:42.000 I went to my dad.

00:09:43.000 Now, at this point, I didn't know my dad was, of course, going to die, and he had been sick.

00:09:46.000 And he was there in his room, and he's lying there.

00:09:49.000 And I said, Dad, I need to ask you some questions.

00:09:51.000 And I won't bore the audience with some of those questions, but I challenged him.

00:09:55.000 I said, Dad, are the following things true?

00:09:58.000 And I shared with him what my high school teacher had shared with me about some of the horrendous things that were happening.

00:10:04.000 Again, I had an overview of some of the horrible, horrific things that had happened in our nation and et cetera, et cetera.

00:10:11.000 But my dad was so successful.

00:10:13.000 In my mind, I thought, either he didn't know this.

00:10:17.000 And my real question to him would have been, Dad, how could you have not known this?

00:10:21.000 When I shared with him what my teacher had said, here was his, I mean, I'll never forget this.

00:10:27.000 He said, yeah, those things, Aubrey, happen.

00:10:30.000 And it shocked me.

00:10:31.000 It was like I was stuck.

00:10:32.000 Like, wait a minute, they happen?

00:10:35.000 And so my next question to him was, Dad, why didn't you say anything to us?

00:10:39.000 He said, because I never train you boys to go by what someone says and/or calls you.

00:10:48.000 He says, with God, you can do all things with hard work.

00:10:52.000 And it changed me.

00:10:54.000 He said, I said, but Dad, why weren't you involved in this facet of it?

00:10:59.000 He said, because I believe that God was bigger than this nation.

00:11:05.000 And I got in with a Christian view.

00:11:07.000 I worked hard and I became this successful.

00:11:11.000 So I saw a dad who was in church.

00:11:14.000 I saw a father who never used ever in my presence, never a racial epithet.

00:11:21.000 Here was a guy that had come out of the Jim Crow Democratic controlled South, moved to Chicago, incredibly successful.

00:11:30.000 My dad's name to this day is in the annals of some business historical documents here.

00:11:35.000 He was the first guy to do several things as it relates to certain corporations.

00:11:40.000 So I didn't believe the hype.

00:11:43.000 So again, I go back to the MLK piece.

00:11:46.000 Why did my dad become bitter?

00:11:49.000 I don't know.

00:11:49.000 Maybe he had a moment, Charlie.

00:11:51.000 I really have no idea, but I know what he projected.

00:11:54.000 He projected that there was nothing impossible to do as it relates to whatever it is you're endeavoring if you follow certain templates in your life.

00:12:04.000 That number one, being God, being pro-family, and those were the results of it.

00:12:09.000 Go back to MLK.

00:12:11.000 I could see how King would be upset.

00:12:14.000 I think all of us would have been.

00:12:17.000 And I could see why he would have been disillusioned.

00:12:19.000 But what I shared with you was that was a very early part of his life.

00:12:24.000 Again, I challenged you, and I think the audience should know this.

00:12:29.000 I said, Charlie, if we use that metric, if those who are coming against you right now that are saying, Charlie, he's a racist, simply because you ask a question, which is crazy in my opinion.

00:12:42.000 I mean, you were so sweet the way you handled it.

00:12:44.000 Well, you're very kind.

00:12:45.000 The reality of it is, I look at things like that.

00:12:49.000 And I think just for a moment, wait a minute.

00:12:54.000 King had every right to feel the way that he was feeling. 0.51

00:12:57.000 After all, and I said this to you, Charlie, some of the same Christian institutions, I'm talking white, Baptist, evangelicals, these institutions were anti-black. 0.90

00:13:09.000 That's a fact.

00:13:10.000 It's not my opinion. 0.51

00:13:12.000 They wouldn't allow that Martin Luther King types if they were black to be part of their seminaries.

00:13:18.000 That's another fact.

00:13:20.000 As a matter of fact, most of their congregation up until very recently was still very segregated, not in the sense that it's blacks only or whites only. 0.56

00:13:28.000 And I'm not talking about because if you happen to live in a predominantly white area, well, why would you have a bunch of black people?

00:13:34.000 They're no different if you're in a predominantly black area. 0.70

00:13:37.000 Why is it insane to think that, oh, it's not fair because it's not 50%?

00:13:41.000 Why?

00:13:42.000 Well, that's crazy if where you live dictates those demographics.

00:13:46.000 However, institutionally speaking, the Baptists and the white evangelicals, they wouldn't even allow, nor would they even believe in individuals getting married if they were of a different ethnic group.

00:13:59.000 These were our Christian organizations during the time of King.

00:14:04.000 Why wouldn't he feel a sense of maybe there's another way to do this?

00:14:09.000 Maybe there's another system because we're doing and we're doing everything the system is telling us, but it's not working for us.

00:14:17.000 I believe that's where you and I, I think in my opinion, and correct me publicly if I'm wrong.

00:14:22.000 I think at that moment, I looked at you and you went, Bishop, I see that.

00:14:27.000 Yeah, and I want to just kind of say it from my own perspective, which is there was a moment of King's life that we highlighted on the episode where he would be talking about redistributionism or reparations.

00:14:39.000 You have said that's not a totality of his life's work.

00:14:42.000 And I want to get into that.

00:14:43.000 But you just kind of, as we're talking beginning here, because he kept on experiencing unjust, bitter racial segregation, it made the, let's just say, the siren song of Marxism seem more attractive.

00:15:00.000 Of course.

00:15:01.000 And that I could totally resonate with because we're always asking the question, why do people gravitate towards socialistic Marxist ideas, at least in a moment in time?

00:15:12.000 And the reason would be you feel as if the game is rigged against you.

00:15:15.000 So let's just kind of take in the American example, certain college kids might think that they're Marxist if they feel as if they can't own property or, you know, again, it's not the same thing, but that mentality, that is what kind of, let's just say, fosters that mentality.

00:15:32.000 And so when you said that, it was a very interesting clicking moment.

00:15:36.000 And again, let's look at it historically.

00:15:39.000 When Japanese Americans were singled out, there was some sort of correction publicly that had been made.

00:15:50.000 I have Jewish ancestry.

00:15:53.000 They were singled out.

00:15:55.000 There was some form of reparation that was made.

00:15:58.000 Now, I want to make this just abundantly clear.

00:16:02.000 I don't believe that anyone should receive anything that they didn't earn. 0.99

00:16:08.000 I just, I believe it's un-Christian. 1.00

00:16:10.000 That would be like you committing a crime against me. 1.00

00:16:14.000 I don't get you for it.

00:16:16.000 But five generations later, someone comes and says to your great, great, great grandkids, you owe me.

00:16:23.000 Well, that's absurd.

00:16:25.000 It's morally.

00:16:27.000 It's not biblical.

00:16:29.000 Think about this.

00:16:31.000 How do I charge you for something 100 years later that you didn't do? 0.97

00:16:36.000 And if we want to go further on the whole reparation thing, not you and I, but I'm just saying, publicly speaking, shouldn't then, if we're honest, intellectually honest, then why don't blacks charge kings to this day in Africa who sold them? 0.82

00:16:54.000 See, there's this misnomer. 0.77

00:16:56.000 A bunch of white guys, I don't know, out of Mississippi, Arkansas got on their little paddle boats, went across the Atlantic and got over into Africa and rounded up 25 million black people. 1.00

00:17:05.000 That's stupid. 1.00

00:17:06.000 It's not even history. 1.00

00:17:08.000 It was black kings selling other blacks that they had conquered.

00:17:14.000 They were selling them for everything from tobacco and a whole lot of other things, alcohol, beverages, various products they would sell and they would merchandise them. 1.00

00:17:22.000 So if blacks are really interested in reparation, then go to Africa. 0.99

00:17:27.000 Now, I know I'm going to take a lot of feedback, but if we're going to be intellectually... 0.98

00:17:30.000 I said that once.

00:17:31.000 I got so criticized. 0.74

00:17:32.000 Well, I say it all the time, but it's true.

00:17:35.000 How can I charge you for something that you didn't do?

00:17:38.000 And then let's go further even with the reparation issue. 0.81

00:17:42.000 If reparations are right, Charlie, then what do you do with the 3,000 black men that owned other blacks here in the United States of America? 0.86

00:17:49.000 Forget about Africa. 0.99

00:17:51.000 Let's stay right here in America. 1.00

00:17:53.000 What do you do with them?

00:17:54.000 What about the blacks that were never enslaved?

00:17:57.000 I wasn't enslaved.

00:17:58.000 My people weren't enslaved.

00:17:59.000 Even the black side of my people wasn't enslaved.

00:18:01.000 So why should they, why should we receive something from something we didn't do?

00:18:07.000 Do we do that with any other ethnic group? 0.88

00:18:10.000 What about Europeans that enslaved Europeans and Asians that enslaved Asians? 0.87

00:18:14.000 Why are we stuck with this?

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00:20:18.000 Now, what else do we do?

00:20:20.000 Do we go back to the 40,000 men that Frederick Douglass said, Hey, pick up that flag? 0.51

00:20:25.000 I'm talking the United States of America, not a BLM flag or LGBTQ flag.

00:20:30.000 He said, Pick up the United States flag.

00:20:32.000 We are part of this system and we're going to fight against those racist Democrats because that's who they were in the South.

00:20:39.000 They haven't changed. 0.99

00:20:39.000 Yeah, 40,000 black people die. 0.99

00:20:42.000 Do they do those blacks get reparations? 0.65

00:20:45.000 If we're going to talk reparations, let's be intellectually honest. 0.98

00:20:49.000 Why then shouldn't blacks sue the Democratic Party? 0.99

00:20:53.000 After all, it was the Democratic Party that was formed to keep blacks. 0.94

00:20:56.000 They were the ones that fought against the 13th, 14th, 15th Amendment. 0.98

00:21:00.000 Then blacks should be suing the Democratic Party. 0.99

00:21:03.000 After all, they were the major proponents of let's make sure this slavery continues. 0.98

00:21:09.000 So, how far do we want to go down that rabbit hole?

00:21:12.000 Yeah, I think that's super smart.

00:21:14.000 And thank you for saying that because you have more license to say it than I do.

00:21:18.000 Because when I say stuff like that, I get criticized.

00:21:21.000 As I will, too, by the way, I want to make sure we continue on this, though, to do this from every angle.

00:21:28.000 When we sat down, I think it was important when you said Charlie, yes, at times he was entertaining Marxist elements and very young.

00:21:37.000 Yeah, so talk about the timeline.

00:21:40.000 Can you educate our audience?

00:21:41.000 So, this is in the inception, and I want your audience to understand.

00:21:45.000 And I know that she's going to hear this.

00:21:47.000 I am still a very close friend to the niece of Martin Luther King, which is Dr. Alvida King.

00:21:55.000 Very pro-life girl, love her to death. 0.92

00:21:58.000 She's almost a mother figure, even in the movement, and she's yet ostracized even by some of the family members because she takes such a conservative position.

00:22:07.000 Martin had these ideas at a very early age.

00:22:10.000 He was just talking.

00:22:11.000 These were languages that say, Hey, what else do we do?

00:22:15.000 What else can we do?

00:22:16.000 But now, it's not what a person says, at least according to scripture.

00:22:21.000 It's not just the fruits.

00:22:23.000 So, let's look at his fruits.

00:22:25.000 He can say anything he wants, but what did he do?

00:22:29.000 He believed yet in this system.

00:22:31.000 He talked about the inequality in the system, and it was like a check that had been given, but didn't have the proper funds to cover the check.

00:22:39.000 Insufficient, yes, absolutely.

00:22:41.000 So, were those things true?

00:22:44.000 Absolutely, they were true.

00:22:46.000 But we know for a fact, not by what he said over here or there, because if we use that, Charlie, as the template, we also have to be honest with Abraham Lincoln.

00:22:57.000 Abraham Lincoln once said, and I can quote because I remember it.

00:23:00.000 He said, For there is only one race that is superior, and there is only another that's inferior.

00:23:06.000 Do we burn down Lincoln?

00:23:08.000 Those were Lincoln's words.

00:23:10.000 Lincoln said, Hey, there's a superior race, and he says, And I ascribe it to those of us who are white.

00:23:16.000 He said, There are inferior races. 0.92

00:23:19.000 He says, And I ascribe it to those that are black. 0.93

00:23:21.000 Did he mean that? 0.97

00:23:23.000 Well, he said it, Bishop.

00:23:24.000 He must have meant it.

00:23:25.000 Well, let's look at the fruit.

00:23:27.000 He was also addressing a bunch of southern Democrats that had he not appealed to their ignorance, he never could have gotten emancipation proclamation sign.

00:23:39.000 As a politician, he had to say some things that, again, we're looking at it from a Monday morning quarterback position.

00:23:46.000 We're sitting on our couch, game is over.

00:23:48.000 That's right.

00:23:48.000 But put yourself in Abraham Lincoln's era.

00:23:51.000 He had to say what he had to say to bring the nation together.

00:23:54.000 We were sorely divided.

00:23:56.000 Yeah, and I think the Monday, I love the Monday, Monday morning quarterbacking thing.

00:24:00.000 I think part of my, and you know, this, my heart was that, hey, I'm not saying he's the worst person, but he has created, he's almost become the saint-like figure.

00:24:09.000 Yeah.

00:24:09.000 And your contention is, Charlie, not relevant in the sense where it's like, hey, here's what he did.

00:24:16.000 Here's what he should be remembered for.

00:24:17.000 So, yeah.

00:24:18.000 And let me ask, answer that first.

00:24:20.000 Sure.

00:24:22.000 You know, I think sainthood is appropriate in this regard.

00:24:25.000 Again, I'm speaking now from a Christian perspective.

00:24:29.000 I believe that God raises up whoever God wants to raise up.

00:24:32.000 Anybody that wants to take a Pharisee view and to say, well, here were some of his faults.

00:24:38.000 Well, if we do that, we're going to have a problem with the entire Bible.

00:24:41.000 Why?

00:24:41.000 Abraham had a ton of faults.

00:24:44.000 Again, these are just facts. 0.85

00:24:45.000 Abraham was willing to give up his wife Sarah to a king to be violated sexually that he could preserve himself.

00:24:52.000 He didn't take a strong position and say, hey, that's my wife. 0.99

00:24:55.000 You can go in and kill me if you want. 0.98

00:24:57.000 Abraham said, hey, wait a minute, that's just my sister. 0.98

00:25:00.000 Which part of that was true?

00:25:01.000 But the fact of the matter is, Abraham relinquished a position.

00:25:06.000 Yet, as Christians, he's still the father of our faith.

00:25:10.000 Time won't even allow me to talk about the failures of David.

00:25:13.000 We only think about Bathsheba.

00:25:14.000 But there were tons of other problems that David had.

00:25:17.000 Yet God said, Hey, that's my boy.

00:25:19.000 That's my guy.

00:25:20.000 This is who I'm going to raise.

00:25:21.000 Go further.

00:25:22.000 Look at King Cyrus.

00:25:23.000 Cyrus was not a man that was even in covenant with God.

00:25:26.000 But yet God said, This is who I, myself, I've selected this guy.

00:25:31.000 And in selecting him, he was able to bring Israel back to a place that they began to practice Sabbath again and practice the feast again.

00:25:41.000 Time won't even allow me to talk about Paul.

00:25:43.000 Paul was an accessory to murder. 0.96

00:25:46.000 He forced Christians to blaspheme. 0.96

00:25:50.000 Yet God said, This is my guy. 0.58

00:25:52.000 This is who I'm going to raise up.

00:25:53.000 He's going to be one of the great, he is going to be the chief apostle forever.

00:25:59.000 My own president, Trump, if we use this metric, none of us would vote for Trump based on some high moral standard, but he loves his country.

00:26:11.000 And I don't need Trump to be my bishop or my pope or my priest.

00:26:15.000 I need him to be a man that would honor the values of this constitution and allow us to have the liberty and the freedom to express ourselves even in a religious way.

00:26:26.000 Well, Trump has done all that.

00:26:28.000 So I liken that even to King.

00:26:30.000 There is no such thing as a perfect life.

00:26:32.000 Which one of us, Charlie, you, me, or anybody that's listening, how many times can we go back in our lives and go, man, I should have never said that or this?

00:26:43.000 We all have moments like that.

00:26:45.000 So did King have a moment where he talked about these issues?

00:26:49.000 I'll say, I'll go further.

00:26:50.000 If he didn't, I would be afraid of him because I would think this guy is too perfect.

00:26:56.000 I can't relate to him.

00:26:57.000 There's only one perfect individual.

00:27:00.000 That is Yeshua Jesus as we are.

00:27:02.000 That's it.

00:27:03.000 That's it.

00:27:03.000 Every disciple, they doubted.

00:27:06.000 They ran. 0.96

00:27:08.000 They were cowards at times.

00:27:10.000 They exercised certain cultural prejudice, but yet these were the pillars of the church.

00:27:19.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

00:27:20.000 What an unbelievable start to 2024.

00:27:22.000 We had last month saving babies with pre-born by providing ultrasounds.

00:27:26.000 And we're doing again this year what we did last year.

00:27:28.000 We're going to stand for life because remaining silent in the face of the most radically pro-death administration is not an option.

00:27:33.000 As Sir Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and we're not going to do nothing.

00:27:39.000 Your gift to pre-born will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice. 0.53

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00:28:06.000 Or click on the pre-born banner at charliekirk.com.

00:28:09.000 That is charliekirk.com and click on the pre-born banner.

00:28:12.000 Also, save moms from a lifetime of pain and regret.

00:28:14.000 I'm a donor of this organization.

00:28:15.000 They're terrific.

00:28:16.000 Go to charliekirk.com, click on the pre-born banner.

00:28:21.000 So when we did the episode, I received a ton of messages.

00:28:24.000 99% of the negative ones were just, you know, not worth reading because they were full of, you know, insults.

00:28:30.000 You were so sweet.

00:28:31.000 One of the ones that I did appreciate when I asked you about that I found to be somewhat persuasive is they said, Charlie, without MLK, the quote-unquote black liberation movement would have been far more violent, far more damaging to the country.

00:28:44.000 That MLK actually, do you, do you...

00:28:46.000 I don't agree with that.

00:28:48.000 And let me tell you why I don't agree with that.

00:28:50.000 Because what they're doing right there without them saying it, they're pitting Malcolm X, El Malik al-Shabazz is Arabic term.

00:29:00.000 They're saying that the country would have leaned that way.

00:29:02.000 It would have not leaned that way.

00:29:03.000 No, we're not talking about Malcolm, but I believe that a lot of what Malcolm did was good.

00:29:10.000 You know, they paint him as this anti-Semitic guy.

00:29:12.000 He wasn't.

00:29:13.000 Well, that's the other, I want to ask you that.

00:29:15.000 Well, I know one of Malcolm's to this day.

00:29:17.000 I know one of his cousins, a young lady who, by the way, is a serious Christian.

00:29:23.000 Her dad was a Christian.

00:29:24.000 This is Malcolm's first cousin.

00:29:26.000 These are people that I know.

00:29:27.000 These are Pentecostal people in the city of Chicago still existing.

00:29:31.000 Malcolm came out of that.

00:29:33.000 But again, when we allow the left to dictate our history, we're only going to get the sound bites they want us to hear.

00:29:41.000 So do I believe that the country would have been ravaged by radicals?

00:29:44.000 No.

00:29:45.000 Why?

00:29:45.000 Let's look at it historically.

00:29:47.000 Take Malcolm out.

00:29:48.000 Just take him out of the equation for a moment.

00:29:51.000 I think it would have been a better time to burn down the whole system if you wanted to use that type of language back in the 20s and 30s.

00:29:59.000 But what did we see?

00:30:01.000 We saw great men and women going into the World War II theater.

00:30:06.000 Out of it, we had great guys from the Tuskegee Institute that flew planes.

00:30:11.000 And even though they were discriminated in a military uniform, they fought for the country, died for the country, yet they would come back and be sped on.

00:30:20.000 So if there was ever a time to burn it down, I think that would have been a good time.

00:30:23.000 No, I don't believe that for one moment.

00:30:24.000 Why?

00:30:25.000 I'll tell you why.

00:30:26.000 The nation was founded on Christian principles.

00:30:30.000 When you have a Christian principle, truth is always going to live out.

00:30:33.000 It doesn't mean that it doesn't have a process to get to, but it has to take time to get there.

00:30:40.000 Any of us who have ever parented, trust me, you will look back and you'll think and rethink a thousand times.

00:30:49.000 Man, I should have said this or did that.

00:30:51.000 Keep living.

00:30:52.000 You'll always second guess yourself.

00:30:55.000 So do we have any evidence that the country was going to burn down prior?

00:30:59.000 No, I mean, even if you went as far as Marcus Garvey, who believed in separatism, who said, hey, let's go back to Africa. 0.89

00:31:07.000 Well, what he didn't realize is that Africa was the same group of people that sold you in the first place.

00:31:13.000 And if we're going to use that language, again, I got to go back to this, Charlie, then why isn't the black movements or the white liberal movements? 0.80

00:31:22.000 Why do they give Islam a pass? 0.99

00:31:27.000 Islamics were the biggest purchasers of blacks. 1.00

00:31:30.000 By the way, they still are. 1.00

00:31:31.000 It's still happening right now in Libya. 0.93

00:31:33.000 In the Horn of Africa.

00:31:34.000 Yeah, it's still going on. 0.84

00:31:36.000 It's still happening.

00:31:37.000 Why don't we hear it?

00:31:38.000 Because the legacy media don't want you to hear that.

00:31:40.000 So what they'll do is they'll say, That Charlie Kirk is a racist.

00:31:44.000 What makes Charlie a racist?

00:31:46.000 I want to say to your audience, no one's paid me to say this.

00:31:49.000 Charlie Kirk is not a racist.

00:31:51.000 I wouldn't be sitting here.

00:31:52.000 Now, I take that back. 0.91

00:31:53.000 I probably would be sitting here, but I would be chewing his head off right now.

00:31:57.000 Charlie, it's nothing racist about you.

00:31:59.000 Thank you. 0.99

00:32:00.000 If you lose the ability, my friend, to ask questions, you're dead already. 0.87

00:32:04.000 Thank you.

00:32:05.000 And that's what makes us American and what's the pursuit of inquiry.

00:32:09.000 So, Aubrey, just kind of riff on this, as we think about MLK at his best, just how we should look at him and his life, just make the best case for MLK.

00:32:23.000 A serious Christian who had serious challenges, as Moses and David, and Paul and everybody else.

00:32:31.000 A lot of people don't know because history has done such a horrible job.

00:32:34.000 You'll hear, well, if you're listening to King's last speech at the Masonic Temple, it's a lie.

00:32:40.000 It was not the Masonic Temple.

00:32:42.000 It was at the Mason Temple, the Church of God in Christ in Memphis, Tennessee.

00:32:46.000 He was invited in by someone who I know personally who's deceased.

00:32:50.000 He was a spiritual father to me.

00:32:52.000 His name was Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

00:32:55.000 He was once the presider bishop of the Church of God in Christ.

00:33:00.000 That's where King gave his last speech in a Pentecostal organization.

00:33:05.000 I can tell you conversations I've had personally with Bishop Patterson about Dr. Martin Luther King.

00:33:13.000 And I trust Bishop Patterson like I would trust any saint that have done a phenomenal job.

00:33:20.000 You're talking about a church organization, second largest Pentecostal organization.

00:33:25.000 By the way, just a little history here.

00:33:27.000 Had it not been for the Church of God in Christ, the Assemblies of God would not exist because it was the Church of God in Christ, a black man by the name of Charles Mason.

00:33:35.000 I'm going to tie this into King, who ordained a group of white guys, but in the heat of segregation, these white guys decided while Charles Mason was out doing evangelism and building other churches.

00:33:50.000 Hey, we can't take the pressure of racism anymore.

00:33:52.000 They started an organization called the Assemblies of God.

00:33:56.000 So with that type of information, here is Bishop G. Patterson.

00:34:01.000 I would speak for him often, frequently.

00:34:05.000 I would have multiple conversations with him about Dr. King.

00:34:10.000 Dr. King believed in the same God that G. Patterson believed in.

00:34:14.000 But at times, did he question things?

00:34:16.000 No, not about God, but about organizations that went astray. 0.58

00:34:21.000 Some of the white counterparts, remember, it was Dr. King, Charlie, that said to not the world.

00:34:26.000 He was saying this to a group, and I'm quoting part of the Birmingham letter right now.

00:34:31.000 He said to a group of white pastors and leaders, he said, I know you, brethren, mean well.

00:34:37.000 When you tell me, Martin, don't act out right now.

00:34:41.000 It's not time for civil disobedience.

00:34:43.000 What was King's response to his Christian white brothers?

00:34:46.000 He says, you say the time isn't now.

00:34:50.000 He says, but what do I tell my children that when we pass the amusement parks, they're not allowed to go in it? 1.00

00:34:58.000 That when we want to stop to get rest, we can't go to the hotels that are in the area because, and I'm quoting King, because no colored children are allowed. 0.98

00:35:07.000 He said, therefore, we have to find ourselves sleeping in the crevice of our cars looking for comfort because we're not invited in. 0.99

00:35:15.000 He says to his white brothers, he says, so when you tell me not now, when?

00:35:20.000 How long?

00:35:21.000 So again, here was this great leader saying to all people, and I want to say for the record, King did more for the white community than he did for the black.

00:35:32.000 Let me explain that very briefly.

00:35:34.000 Because blacks already knew that they were made in the image of God, but there were some of their white counterparts that didn't see them as equal to themselves.

00:35:42.000 So King was awakening the conscience of whites to say, hey, if you're really a Christian, you got to stop the segregation in your churches.

00:35:52.000 You got to stop it.

00:35:53.000 That's why King went out to say, Charlie, he said the most segregated time in America is on Sunday morning.

00:35:59.000 He wasn't saying it because blacks lived over here and whites lived over there.

00:36:02.000 They were not allowed by the Christian organizations to even come together.

00:36:08.000 So that was the God, and that sounds like the God of the Bible that I know that says there is no black and white. 0.70

00:36:15.000 There's no Jew and Greek.

00:36:17.000 We're all one in Christ.

00:36:18.000 He says we're one in Christ.

00:36:19.000 That was the message of Martin Luther King.

00:36:25.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:36:26.000 Email us as alwaysfreedom at CharlieKirk.com.

00:36:29.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

00:36:33.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - March 14, 2024

Was MLK a Good Christian? A Discussion and Debate with Bishop Aubrey Shines

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Transcript