My conversation with Bishop Aubrey Shines. We talk about Black History, MLK, Donald Trump, and 8 questions people ask about race. Thanks to our sponsor, Noble Gold Investments. Noble Gold is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show.
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00:02:23.000I'm able to shepherd over 21 different ethnic groups every single Sunday in the beautiful city of Tampa.
00:02:35.000Very diverse group, very conservative group.
00:02:38.000Outside of that, maybe some of your viewers recognize I was, and I hate saying this part because, again, it sounds like I'm patting myself like I'm having some sort of egomaniacal moment here.
00:02:49.000But I was the only clergy ever that Hillary Clinton put in her book by name as to the reason she lost her election.
00:04:04.000Hopefully, not on the cops most wanted list or anything like that.
00:04:07.000I've not had that distinction, so I'm not interested in that.
00:04:11.000So, those are some of the things that we do.
00:04:14.000So, Bishop, I want to thank you for being here.
00:04:17.000This is just going to be really great for me and for the audience because we, you know, when we first talked on the phone, I obviously knew of you and watched your program.
00:04:25.000And within the first five minutes, you say, you know, I am the one clergy who Hillary Clinton blamed.
00:05:03.000I think often all of us speak from some cutout that we've learned somewhere.
00:05:10.000I think all of us, if we're intellectually honest, I think we go back over our lives and we realize, wait a minute, I meant exactly what I said, but maybe I should have considered the following.
00:05:21.000Maybe this part of this speech or this line was true, but was at all that there was to it.
00:05:29.000And that's when I heard what you said, it wasn't a matter of gotcha kind of a moment.
00:05:35.000I did wonder, does Charlie know the following?
00:05:39.000And I think that's where our dialogue began.
00:05:41.000And I think, and I want to say this, not just to you, because I have, but I want to make sure that your audience get it, and especially those that hate you, because it's hard for me to imagine that people look at us and they actually hate what we're doing.
00:05:56.000It's always a gotcha moment, especially with those who hate Christianity, those who hate a conservative movement.
00:06:57.000Here he believed in a system that was blind.
00:07:01.000It should have been as related to the law.
00:07:04.000Here, this great statue says, hey, come in.
00:07:08.000I'm not going to see you as anything other than we're going to base this great republic on just pure laws.
00:07:15.000Blacks are following the laws, but they're not the recipient of those laws.
00:07:19.000So I ask your audience to consider this, not from a 2024 perspective, but let's go back to the 50s.
00:07:27.000Make yourself black just for the sake of argument.
00:07:30.000If the very Constitution that you know is proper and right and beautiful, but it's not working for you, why wouldn't any of us consider another way out?
00:07:44.000And this was what I agreed with and still do.
00:07:49.000And if I could say it differently, it's that if you live under permanent racial segregation, which is evil, it can create a sense of bitterness.
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00:11:51.000I really have no idea, but I know what he projected.
00:11:54.000He projected that there was nothing impossible to do as it relates to whatever it is you're endeavoring if you follow certain templates in your life.
00:12:04.000That number one, being God, being pro-family, and those were the results of it.
00:12:17.000And I could see why he would have been disillusioned.
00:12:19.000But what I shared with you was that was a very early part of his life.
00:12:24.000Again, I challenged you, and I think the audience should know this.
00:12:29.000I said, Charlie, if we use that metric, if those who are coming against you right now that are saying, Charlie, he's a racist, simply because you ask a question, which is crazy in my opinion.
00:12:42.000I mean, you were so sweet the way you handled it.
00:12:45.000The reality of it is, I look at things like that.
00:12:49.000And I think just for a moment, wait a minute.
00:12:54.000King had every right to feel the way that he was feeling.
00:12:57.000After all, and I said this to you, Charlie, some of the same Christian institutions, I'm talking white, Baptist, evangelicals, these institutions were anti-black.
00:13:20.000As a matter of fact, most of their congregation up until very recently was still very segregated, not in the sense that it's blacks only or whites only.
00:13:28.000And I'm not talking about because if you happen to live in a predominantly white area, well, why would you have a bunch of black people?
00:13:34.000They're no different if you're in a predominantly black area.
00:13:37.000Why is it insane to think that, oh, it's not fair because it's not 50%?
00:13:42.000Well, that's crazy if where you live dictates those demographics.
00:13:46.000However, institutionally speaking, the Baptists and the white evangelicals, they wouldn't even allow, nor would they even believe in individuals getting married if they were of a different ethnic group.
00:13:59.000These were our Christian organizations during the time of King.
00:14:04.000Why wouldn't he feel a sense of maybe there's another way to do this?
00:14:09.000Maybe there's another system because we're doing and we're doing everything the system is telling us, but it's not working for us.
00:14:17.000I believe that's where you and I, I think in my opinion, and correct me publicly if I'm wrong.
00:14:22.000I think at that moment, I looked at you and you went, Bishop, I see that.
00:14:27.000Yeah, and I want to just kind of say it from my own perspective, which is there was a moment of King's life that we highlighted on the episode where he would be talking about redistributionism or reparations.
00:14:39.000You have said that's not a totality of his life's work.
00:14:43.000But you just kind of, as we're talking beginning here, because he kept on experiencing unjust, bitter racial segregation, it made the, let's just say, the siren song of Marxism seem more attractive.
00:15:01.000And that I could totally resonate with because we're always asking the question, why do people gravitate towards socialistic Marxist ideas, at least in a moment in time?
00:15:12.000And the reason would be you feel as if the game is rigged against you.
00:15:15.000So let's just kind of take in the American example, certain college kids might think that they're Marxist if they feel as if they can't own property or, you know, again, it's not the same thing, but that mentality, that is what kind of, let's just say, fosters that mentality.
00:15:32.000And so when you said that, it was a very interesting clicking moment.
00:15:36.000And again, let's look at it historically.
00:15:39.000When Japanese Americans were singled out, there was some sort of correction publicly that had been made.
00:16:31.000How do I charge you for something 100 years later that you didn't do?
00:16:36.000And if we want to go further on the whole reparation thing, not you and I, but I'm just saying, publicly speaking, shouldn't then, if we're honest, intellectually honest, then why don't blacks charge kings to this day in Africa who sold them?
00:16:56.000A bunch of white guys, I don't know, out of Mississippi, Arkansas got on their little paddle boats, went across the Atlantic and got over into Africa and rounded up 25 million black people.
00:17:08.000It was black kings selling other blacks that they had conquered.
00:17:14.000They were selling them for everything from tobacco and a whole lot of other things, alcohol, beverages, various products they would sell and they would merchandise them.
00:17:22.000So if blacks are really interested in reparation, then go to Africa.
00:17:27.000Now, I know I'm going to take a lot of feedback, but if we're going to be intellectually...
00:17:32.000Well, I say it all the time, but it's true.
00:17:35.000How can I charge you for something that you didn't do?
00:17:38.000And then let's go further even with the reparation issue.
00:17:42.000If reparations are right, Charlie, then what do you do with the 3,000 black men that owned other blacks here in the United States of America?
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00:21:41.000So, this is in the inception, and I want your audience to understand.
00:21:45.000And I know that she's going to hear this.
00:21:47.000I am still a very close friend to the niece of Martin Luther King, which is Dr. Alvida King.
00:21:55.000Very pro-life girl, love her to death.
00:21:58.000She's almost a mother figure, even in the movement, and she's yet ostracized even by some of the family members because she takes such a conservative position.
00:22:07.000Martin had these ideas at a very early age.
00:22:31.000He talked about the inequality in the system, and it was like a check that had been given, but didn't have the proper funds to cover the check.
00:22:46.000But we know for a fact, not by what he said over here or there, because if we use that, Charlie, as the template, we also have to be honest with Abraham Lincoln.
00:22:57.000Abraham Lincoln once said, and I can quote because I remember it.
00:23:00.000He said, For there is only one race that is superior, and there is only another that's inferior.
00:23:27.000He was also addressing a bunch of southern Democrats that had he not appealed to their ignorance, he never could have gotten emancipation proclamation sign.
00:23:39.000As a politician, he had to say some things that, again, we're looking at it from a Monday morning quarterback position.
00:23:46.000We're sitting on our couch, game is over.
00:23:56.000Yeah, and I think the Monday, I love the Monday, Monday morning quarterbacking thing.
00:24:00.000I think part of my, and you know, this, my heart was that, hey, I'm not saying he's the worst person, but he has created, he's almost become the saint-like figure.
00:25:53.000He's going to be one of the great, he is going to be the chief apostle forever.
00:25:59.000My own president, Trump, if we use this metric, none of us would vote for Trump based on some high moral standard, but he loves his country.
00:26:11.000And I don't need Trump to be my bishop or my pope or my priest.
00:26:15.000I need him to be a man that would honor the values of this constitution and allow us to have the liberty and the freedom to express ourselves even in a religious way.
00:26:30.000There is no such thing as a perfect life.
00:26:32.000Which one of us, Charlie, you, me, or anybody that's listening, how many times can we go back in our lives and go, man, I should have never said that or this?
00:27:22.000We had last month saving babies with pre-born by providing ultrasounds.
00:27:26.000And we're doing again this year what we did last year.
00:27:28.000We're going to stand for life because remaining silent in the face of the most radically pro-death administration is not an option.
00:27:33.000As Sir Edmund Burke said, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, and we're not going to do nothing.
00:27:39.000Your gift to pre-born will give a girl the truth about what's happening in her body so that she can make the right choice.
00:28:31.000One of the ones that I did appreciate when I asked you about that I found to be somewhat persuasive is they said, Charlie, without MLK, the quote-unquote black liberation movement would have been far more violent, far more damaging to the country.
00:30:01.000We saw great men and women going into the World War II theater.
00:30:06.000Out of it, we had great guys from the Tuskegee Institute that flew planes.
00:30:11.000And even though they were discriminated in a military uniform, they fought for the country, died for the country, yet they would come back and be sped on.
00:30:20.000So if there was ever a time to burn it down, I think that would have been a good time.
00:30:23.000No, I don't believe that for one moment.
00:30:55.000So do we have any evidence that the country was going to burn down prior?
00:30:59.000No, I mean, even if you went as far as Marcus Garvey, who believed in separatism, who said, hey, let's go back to Africa.
00:31:07.000Well, what he didn't realize is that Africa was the same group of people that sold you in the first place.
00:31:13.000And if we're going to use that language, again, I got to go back to this, Charlie, then why isn't the black movements or the white liberal movements?
00:32:05.000And that's what makes us American and what's the pursuit of inquiry.
00:32:09.000So, Aubrey, just kind of riff on this, as we think about MLK at his best, just how we should look at him and his life, just make the best case for MLK.
00:32:23.000A serious Christian who had serious challenges, as Moses and David, and Paul and everybody else.
00:32:31.000A lot of people don't know because history has done such a horrible job.
00:32:34.000You'll hear, well, if you're listening to King's last speech at the Masonic Temple, it's a lie.
00:32:52.000His name was Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.
00:32:55.000He was once the presider bishop of the Church of God in Christ.
00:33:00.000That's where King gave his last speech in a Pentecostal organization.
00:33:05.000I can tell you conversations I've had personally with Bishop Patterson about Dr. Martin Luther King.
00:33:13.000And I trust Bishop Patterson like I would trust any saint that have done a phenomenal job.
00:33:20.000You're talking about a church organization, second largest Pentecostal organization.
00:33:25.000By the way, just a little history here.
00:33:27.000Had it not been for the Church of God in Christ, the Assemblies of God would not exist because it was the Church of God in Christ, a black man by the name of Charles Mason.
00:33:35.000I'm going to tie this into King, who ordained a group of white guys, but in the heat of segregation, these white guys decided while Charles Mason was out doing evangelism and building other churches.
00:33:50.000Hey, we can't take the pressure of racism anymore.
00:33:52.000They started an organization called the Assemblies of God.
00:33:56.000So with that type of information, here is Bishop G. Patterson.
00:34:01.000I would speak for him often, frequently.
00:34:05.000I would have multiple conversations with him about Dr. King.
00:34:10.000Dr. King believed in the same God that G. Patterson believed in.
00:34:50.000He says, but what do I tell my children that when we pass the amusement parks, they're not allowed to go in it?
00:34:58.000That when we want to stop to get rest, we can't go to the hotels that are in the area because, and I'm quoting King, because no colored children are allowed.
00:35:07.000He said, therefore, we have to find ourselves sleeping in the crevice of our cars looking for comfort because we're not invited in.
00:35:15.000He says to his white brothers, he says, so when you tell me not now, when?
00:35:21.000So again, here was this great leader saying to all people, and I want to say for the record, King did more for the white community than he did for the black.
00:35:34.000Because blacks already knew that they were made in the image of God, but there were some of their white counterparts that didn't see them as equal to themselves.
00:35:42.000So King was awakening the conscience of whites to say, hey, if you're really a Christian, you got to stop the segregation in your churches.