00:00:37.000His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:45.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:41.000So I know you might get a lot of shots.
00:01:44.000So it's nice to get one little dink of encouragement.
00:01:49.000You know, he was the atypical pastor in America where, you know, verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book teaching, solid Bible teacher, watched the church that he was responsible for grow to unbelievable proportions in Idaho and was really apolitical for the most part.
00:02:50.000He was very engaging and kind, but he's like, I ain't doing that.
00:02:53.000And then when we kind of saw the writing on the wall, and then our careers have paralleled.
00:02:58.000We trained into the same folks, but we've been in different places, but trained into the same people doing the same thing.
00:03:05.000And then all of a sudden, Rick sees what I'm doing, and he has started the Kingdom X ministry where he does consulting because he's so good at what he does.
00:03:12.000He's an organizer, unlike me, and administrator.
00:03:15.000And then he started to realize the necessity of it and he's jumped in fully.
00:03:45.000I really, once again, I did not, the encouragement fell really for Rob, and I know it does for a lot of people on deaf ears because they didn't see the peril that we see now that is on the doorstep.
00:03:59.000But Rob has been in this place for a very long time, engaging in his citizenship in a way that, honestly, now I'm ashamed of myself as a preacher in that sense.
00:04:27.000We're seeing it not as quickly as we'd like, but, you know, you've got contending ideas.
00:04:34.000You've got Russell Moore out there doing this stuff.
00:04:36.000And then Gospel Coalition and, you know, being apolitical.
00:04:39.000And even in the Calvary movement, the same thing.
00:04:42.000And then over here, and it's, we haven't, we haven't organized, but people are being drawn to it because they're looking for answers because their congregants are looking for answers.
00:04:50.000I mean, these are trying times where people need to know what's going on.
00:04:53.000And we have to be prepared to do that.
00:04:56.000You've seen more pastors starting to stand up?
00:05:00.000Well, I don't think that I'm speaking to groups of pastors in this season for the last, since all this started nine months ago as much as you guys are interfacing with them because of, but the one church I was really heavily involved with in San Jose is Mike McClure with the Calvary Chapel there, which I'm not sure.
00:06:40.000And so I went, I arrived to spend time with the incomparable Congressman Bob McEwen and his lovely wife, Liz, and to going from then, because I'm really on this fast track, Charlie, to absorb.
00:06:57.000I'm very solid, obviously, after 31 years in my Christian walk, my Bible biblical understanding, but I'm being baptized into this.
00:07:06.000So I wanted to spend those three days, and I thought it's a historic time for the nation.
00:07:24.000I didn't even know there was a pre-rally.
00:07:26.000So I showed up for the pre-rally at Freedom Plaza in D.C. and engage with people, ask people questions, seeing people from all different walks of life.
00:07:36.000And there was a worship thing going on there.
00:08:23.000I don't know if people camp there, but when I showed up at dark, thousands, really, thousands in lines, long lines, lining up to get into the park.
00:08:33.000I'm like, how early did I need to get up, right, to make it into the park?
00:08:36.000Anyway, fast forward, the park fills up.
00:09:10.000And the part that got me is he just felt compelled.
00:09:13.000I think, because every time I thought about going to D.C. and I wanted to go, but then you asked me to come out here to help you with the Georgia Returns.
00:11:11.000Charlie, sitting with you on a few of the previous broadcasts and watching how you're wisely navigating through just this deluge of information and videos and narratives and people trying to push it in one direction or the next.
00:11:27.000But you're pursuing bringing clarity to what we're facing as a nation.
00:13:37.000I will always, I have always been and will remain your friend.
00:13:40.000And then I said, and this is where I want folks to hear.
00:13:46.000I said, I do not condone, support, agree, nor believe the violence and destruction is acceptable, justified, correct, nor should it be tolerated.
00:13:55.000No one I know, affiliate with, or follow, to the best of my knowledge, had anything to do with it.
00:14:03.000It is wrong and did nothing to serve my beliefs or purposes of what I stand for and contend for.
00:14:08.000To affiliate, connect me, or those who stand with me to this horror is what hurts most.
00:14:13.000He says, I don't connect you with this.
00:14:15.000I'm discussing this with you, my friend.
00:14:20.000I said, I do not apologize for my immutable, God-given trait, nor do I apologize for the depraved, evil behavior and actions of those who participated in yesterday's horror, even if they possess my immutable trait, meaning my color of my skin.
00:14:37.000I'm not them, and we are not all the same.
00:14:40.000I am a child of the king, and I will stand upon my character and honesty formulated in my life by God's word, which was the connection at our beginning for our friendship and has been the glue that has kept us united.
00:15:14.000Yeah, they see what they have been warned about, I think, incorrectly, but it's confirmation bias of this pent-up narrative of that President Trump is worse than just his policies.
00:16:30.000And I think it's, there's no nuanced wisdom that, you know, just because you love liberty or you support Trump doesn't mean you all have the same character or you're coming from the same perspective.
00:16:44.000Charlie, you and Isabel brilliantly pointed out that if we don't have a shared history, we don't have a shared nation.
00:16:51.000And the 1619 project, which is trying to pit us against each other by immutable traits, we share that history as ugly as it is, but we have to be honest about that history.
00:17:00.000We can't rewrite it to the way it fits our narrative.
00:17:03.000We have to look at original sources and go to that point.
00:17:06.000And the attempt to try to divide us by rewriting a history that didn't exist and has been debunked is very problematic.
00:17:15.000Because if that's what's going to happen in this nation and we don't have a shared history with the good and the bad, we have to really look at it, but we have to look at it honestly, not rewrite it.
00:17:27.000And that, for me, when you said that as a history major, I was moved.
00:17:34.000And I'm thinking to myself, doggone it, he's 28.
00:18:02.000Yeah, the nuanced wisdom is simply just because somebody is supportive of a president, there were people to my right that thought if this doesn't get worked out and the voter fraud is not challenged, there was a person to my right that had a very militant, this is going to a civil war.
00:18:20.000He was talking about a physical civil war, not a civil war of ideas, not of dialogue, not of open dialogue with peaceful protest.
00:18:29.000You know, the guy to my right was more militant.
00:18:32.000And some people to my left were more peaceful and praying for the president and wanting to support.
00:18:39.000And I just think it's to me, and not to state it too strongly, that it's really moronic to me to not have the wisdom.
00:18:47.000Being a pastor for 31 years and hearing so many people's different perspectives and their character, is that life, it doesn't matter what color you are or what language you speak or any of those things.
00:18:58.000It's about who you are and what you stand for.
00:19:01.000And the majority, and I don't know what the percentages are, but the majority of the people that were there all wanted to exercise for their First Amendment rights.
00:19:30.000And he was moving towards conservative principles, actually to embrace them to the consternation of his father and saying he's betraying his race.
00:21:30.000Well, that's actually very, it's a very interesting statement because it actually baked into that assumption is that your race and your ideology actually must be intertwined together, which is, by definition, a highly racist thing to believe.
00:22:01.000And then to add that with Western culture, which is influenced by the scriptures themselves, to attribute that completely to those who don't possess a certain amount of melanin, that couldn't be more detrimental to mankind.
00:22:21.000There are millions of believers in Africa, Christian believers in Africa.
00:22:27.000They didn't receive Christianity from missionaries.
00:22:30.000Christianity entered Africa from the Ethiopian eunuch that Philip led to the Lord when he went back for Candace's entourage.
00:22:40.000And Christianity was in Africa before it got to Europe for the most part.
00:22:45.000And here, it's a series of teachings that is promising to all mankind in the beauty of the Imago Day, regardless of the tapestry, where you fit in that tapestry.
00:23:01.000But for those who want to oppress us, they need to attribute Christianity that I've come to set the captives free and label it to an immutable trait of whiteness.
00:25:51.000Our kids aren't taught what it even means.
00:25:53.000And we are now regressing while we have technology, which only makes the regression quicker.
00:26:00.000So we feel like we're progressing, but actually just makes the regression easier.
00:26:04.000You think about it's easier than ever to spread really, really bad ideas to a lot of people because of the cyborg age, which I call it the human age ended as soon as these pieces of hardware.
00:26:15.000We're just looking down and walking around.
00:26:46.000What happened on Wednesday, if that would have happened in 1910, there might have been some still photographs of it, a couple eyewitnesses.
00:27:10.000So all of a sudden, it's designed to fit a super narrative, right?
00:27:14.000To have people react in a very certain way.
00:27:17.000That is not a way that we as human beings are built to process information.
00:27:22.000But to both your point, the students of our country and pastors that are embracing this critical race theory nonsense, it really is the, it's not just unbiblical.
00:27:40.000which is that life is nothing more than a power struggle.
00:27:44.000Life is nothing more than a sequence of random events that you have no such power into.
00:27:49.000And the great evangelist of this thinking, which I encourage all pastors to really become well aware of, and any pastors out there, please read his writings is Friedrich Nietzsche.
00:28:00.000You have to know what this guy believed because he's kind of the Saint Paul, if you will, or Saint Peter is probably a better way to put it.
00:28:09.000He's the first pope of the atheist church of America where he proclaimed in his writings, God is dead.
00:28:17.000He also came up with the phrase, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, which is unrelated to his theistic teachings, but he was the most outspoken anti-Christian writer.
00:28:28.000And he, more than almost any other writer, influenced the rise of the National Socialist Workers' Party in Germany and also with it, Hegelian Marxism that came into the Soviet Union.
00:28:43.000He was, it's interesting, the German front line in World War I, over 600,000 copies of Friedrich Nietzsche were distributed to the front-run soldiers.
00:28:55.000And then all of a sudden you wonder why they were so open to this ideology post-World War I. When you see the way it's infiltrated the church, and Rick, you can speak to this.
00:29:09.000It says, and depending on someone's eschatology, study the end times.
00:29:12.000They say that even in the end, the elect will be deceived.
00:29:16.000And when I say that, they're deceived by the black tile.
00:29:19.000But even further, as you and I can testify to, these folks that consider themselves conservatives, church-going folks, they're deceived by the Lynn Wood, all the narratives that are just crazy out there.
00:29:32.000And making them run after stuff that just distracts them and frightens them and pits them against someone else when really we have what we need in front of us and we need to pursue that and endeavor to keep the union of the spirit and the bond of peace and let people know who they are in the Imago Day, but deceiving even the elect.
00:30:18.000And that's not what Western civilization, which is built on, for those who haven't really studied it, it's from a spiritual reality and then the Athenian reason and logic.
00:30:30.000And you marry those two things together because we have this, we are fearfully and wonderfully made.
00:30:36.000We have this creator mentality mixed with what the biblical truth and then reason and logic.
00:30:58.000And it's also because the postmodernists and Nietzsche really kind of started this.
00:31:04.000They are taught to believe that logic and reason are nothing more than mirages and aberrations to advance a Western phallo logo-centric power struggle, which phallo meaning man, logo meaning of the logic, centric, that it's eccentric.
00:31:19.000So the men dominate everything through the patriarchy.
00:31:22.000And that is literally a term they use.
00:31:24.000And I'm not tuned into, I mean, I haven't had my finger on the pulse of this decline politically from your vantage point, either one of you.
00:31:34.000For me, all the narrative and their rhetoric, just from a just call myself a novice to this whole experience, it's victimization.
00:31:45.000Everybody's, and it's to keep people in this, they convince them they're a victim, they want to keep them a victim, and they motivate them to violence or whatever it takes to overthrow those who have victimized them.
00:32:16.000I preach this on Sunday and I took it from David, but it was a quote that he had posted, and I loved it.
00:32:21.000He says, The purpose of propaganda is not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate.
00:32:28.000And therefore, the less it corresponds to reality, the better.
00:32:31.000When people are forced to remain silent, when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse, when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all all their sense of probity, which means moral conviction.
00:32:44.000To assent to obvious lies is to cooperate with evil and in some small way to become evil oneself.
00:32:52.000One standing to resist anything is thus eroded and even destroyed.
00:32:57.000A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.
00:33:02.000I thought it was such a brilliant quote.
00:33:21.000I mean, I got a text from one of our friends who said, Charlie, even if we all would have showed up in Georgia, it wouldn't have mattered.
00:33:27.000And that's a really dangerous way to think that human action, no matter what.
00:33:33.000I mean, I'm not going to say who it is.
00:33:36.000He's a great guy, and I'll reconcile with it privately with him.
00:33:39.000But I think it's actually a dangerous thing to believe that you ultimately would know what your human action would have resulted in.
00:33:48.000I'm of the opinion that you know more surely because you didn't show up than you know than you could say very cleanly, you know, very clearly and cleanly.
00:33:58.000But some people have that have really, I think, been infected like a parasite with hopium.
00:34:06.000And so what I see in getting on the airplane with most of the people coming from the rally when I flew out of DC at six o'clock the next morning, and here's all these people, and they overhear all the buzz around me.
00:34:24.000That fatalistic idea is that it wouldn't have mattered how many of us went, just give up.
00:34:30.000And I heard, which I've heard a lot, and it is true from my heart.
00:34:37.000I want to be passionate in this season of my life with the breath I have left to see the Republic saved for my children and my grandchildren.
00:34:46.000But what I heard behind me is somebody saying, I have, they were so devastated and defeated.
00:34:52.000I have children and grandchildren, and now what are we going to do?
00:34:56.000And I can just give a word of encouragement to anybody that's listening in this regard from a Christian worldview.
00:36:24.000He's born in the times of the Philistines.
00:36:26.000Who wants to bring their kids into the world when you got a giant almost 10 foot tall, everybody's shaking in their boots?
00:36:33.000Well, let me just tell everybody, I am more stoked to live in this period of time than at any time in my entire life.
00:36:43.000This is heroic times that inspire people to action, not apathy, not any of those things.
00:36:52.000And whether it's Daniel being hauled off as a prisoner of war to serve under the cruel tyrant of Nebuchadnezzar, or even Joseph and Mary bringing the savior of the world into the world, and Herod says, go kill those children under the age of two years of age.
00:37:36.000What makes the Bible such a different religious text than anything else is that it talks so poorly about its protagonist, which is the people of Israel, right?
00:37:45.000They're always screwing up, which is who would write poorly about themselves?
00:37:48.000And he still loves them and pursues them.
00:37:54.000But also, it's a constant struggle of overcoming adversity and to not just lay down and completely and totally give up, which is the human norm is to experience that level of adversity and struggle.
00:38:07.000Last night, just to clear my head, I turned on Band of Brothers.
00:38:34.000He said, I made a commitment to myself that if I were to survive this war, I'm going to go find a big plot of land and forever live in peace.
00:39:54.000It's a time in the public square, like we're talking about in a peaceful way, but with thought and words and not let people shame us into silence because that's the club they're using is to shame us.
00:40:05.000Well, I don't have a voice because I'm white and I'm middle-aged and I'm privileged.
00:40:33.000But I was thinking about this for those who would say, this is the end.
00:40:37.000We're going towards socialism because you could speak to this more than me, Charlie, but 60 to 70% of millennials lean towards or have embraced socialism.
00:41:18.000Well, that's what I'm saying, is that sometimes things have to get darker before people finally wake up.
00:41:27.000And we've mentioned this about the sleeping giant.
00:41:30.000And I think, honestly, the best answer for a lazy church, and that's what I believe it was G. Campbell Morgan said, that the church persecuted is the church pure, and the church unpersecuted is the church impure.
00:41:47.000And right now, we're seeing the threshing floor and the separating of the wheat and the chaff.
00:41:51.000Those who got the guts to follow Jesus and those who don't want to do it publicly and they're not ashamed of it and those who are going to cower in the corner and basically, put up the black tile, whatever I need to embrace.
00:42:46.000And so to reinforce apathy, if I was a leftist, I would be running mass media telling everyone to give up, which is basically what they're doing.
00:42:55.000They said that the Western world was saved by the English language because it was Churchill who was so phenomenal in the way that he parsed his speeches.
00:43:03.000He would even, the only time he used a French-based word was when he talked about surrender.
00:43:09.000He was so equipped in the English language.
00:43:28.000But he saved Western civilization by the clarity of the word that was true and brought them hope.
00:43:36.000And if we really believe the Bible to be the inspired and errant word of God and that it's true and that that word spoke the heavens into existence and he calls himself the Logos, or Lagos, or Logos, or I've heard thousands of, if he calls himself that and he says, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God and the word became fleshed what with man yeah, if we believe that to be true, then that that truth still has power to change lives,
00:44:06.000a spoken word, to stand upon it and to stand upon truth and whatever things are true.
00:44:11.000So that's why and I must say it again, that's why, sitting at this desk, as as we still have this audience before they, they may shut it down, because the only way that that a lie can be perpetrated is to silence the truth, and the truth must never be silenced.
00:44:27.000Yeah, and you just keep rightly dividing it, sift through all of the you know the propaganda and everyone's narrative and just show people the truth.
00:44:37.000That's why the press was supposed to be the ones who would report the truth, but now they report a narrative.
00:44:41.000Yeah, that's why this is such a critical program and I really do believe it's a.
00:44:47.000I was telling somebody the other day, you know when the children of Israel went to war?
00:44:51.000Do you know that they actually had a chapter in Deuteronomy 20 about warfare, how you go to war, how do you prepare if the enemy comes in like a flood?
00:45:04.000He says, you call for the priest and uh Rob, and I have the blessing of of being uh representatives in that way, to be a voice for god's people.
00:45:33.000We have nothing to be afraid of when we remember the presence of the lord and you forget God's promise, you don't have to be afraid because he's with you.
00:45:52.000My dad was stationed at the Navy Yard.
00:45:53.000I remember being there and I remember being frightened as we were there for America Day and then the protesters were out there and I remember his.
00:46:54.000Even if you were in communist China, you are more than a conqueror because God is going to do what he wants to do.
00:47:01.000The rules of warfare, he goes on to say, Hey, if you've built a house and you haven't been able to live in it, then don't come because we want you to enjoy that.
00:47:11.000And, you know, you planted a vineyard, you haven't eaten the grapes yet.
00:51:15.000No, it's just an interesting question.
00:51:17.000If you were to get 100 students and you ask them what builds civilizations, the answer is usually not easily grappled with because no one talks about that, right?
00:51:29.000And so how does one build a civilization?
00:52:32.000I even taught that there's only three institutions that the Bible institutes, right?
00:52:39.000You have marriage, the marriage and family that the Lord creates in Genesis 2.
00:52:45.000And then you have the church, because there's sacrifice and forgiveness of sins, whether it's them being covered with animal skins or Abel's official first worship service that the Lord blesses in Genesis 4.
00:53:31.000But when it came to the government to be salt and light, my simple adage was pray for your leaders like 1 Timothy 2 declares, and then use your citizenship, vote.
00:53:47.000But get involved to be salt and light on the school board and run for city council and county commissioners and for governor and engage the public square.
00:54:01.000If God's involved in your marriage, it's going to do well.
00:54:04.000If he's involved in the spiritual center, you're going to do well.
00:54:07.000And if you leave him out of engaging in the public square as a citizen, a three-legged stool will only stand if all three legs are strong.
00:54:16.000And that's exactly what you were speaking to.
00:54:18.000The forefathers put all three of those things together, and we got the greatest nation in the history and the greatest experiment of a republic or they stumbled backwards into it.
00:54:29.000They didn't just wake up in 1750 and say, you know, 26 years from today, we're going to go dissolve ties.
00:54:37.000Was the first great revival in our country, first great awakening.
00:54:40.000Yeah, there was a great awakening, and then Whitfield and Jonathan Edwards.
00:54:43.000And the Declaration of Independence was preached from the pulpits of America before it was penned by Jefferson.
00:54:48.000I mean, there's pastors that you can take full clips out of their sermons that exist in the Declaration of Church.
00:54:53.000He was just, he wasn't declaring, and he was not expressing anything that wasn't already articulated in the they had learned it in the pulpits.
00:55:00.000I believe it was really supernatural wisdom that was poured upon them as they were working in that constitutional meeting, right?
00:55:07.000And they were at a logger's head with all of these ideas to put into it.
00:55:31.000And I believe the Lord gave them supernatural wisdom, the sword to cut through really so many human issues and to give us a spiritually inspired biblical perspective of a creator and our inalienable rights.
00:55:50.000Well, from that, when he walked out of the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin, when he had called for prayer, he said, Spartatos fall from the sky without God's knowledge.
00:55:56.000How can we build a government without his help, beseeching his help?
00:56:00.000And then the woman says, Mr. Franklin, what form of government have you given us?
00:56:03.000He says, Republic, madam, if you can keep it.
00:57:19.000You got to check these three, which is one of them, for example, that we talked about for a Christian is: do you know every single school board member personally?
00:57:46.000I was saying, we need this list of things to just practically.
00:57:51.000And I was wanting to declare to pastors what to do.
00:57:54.000And Charlie and his wisdom, who has a lot of conversations with pastors, said, I believe it's best to ask questions and have them respond and engage.
00:58:02.000And you thought that was the better way to do it.
00:58:22.000Well, look, I will say that it's better to have thousands and thousands and thousands of emails of people that are asking what to do than have an inbox where no one cares.
00:58:48.000And it is what happens just with this kind of parliamentarian apathy where it's just give me stuff.
00:58:55.000And the one thing that does give me hope outside of all of this, hundreds of thousands of people showed up to Washington, D.C. on a long shot just to celebrate a president.
00:59:04.000What other country is that happening on the planet?
00:59:07.000And that goes to show that President Trump, one of his longest-lasting legacies will be all of a sudden this reignition of participatory citizen government.
00:59:16.000I just pray, and this is up to us, that it doesn't get lost because of the correct, the good conversations we've been having around voter integrity.
00:59:24.000All of a sudden, people say, it doesn't matter, I'm done.
00:59:25.000Because no matter what I do, they're going to change my votes.
01:00:13.000I want you to know how much hope that filled me with because as a middle-aged guy that's loved our nation, when I saw that place and all the kids waiting outside, they wouldn't even let them all in.
01:00:37.000And she said, I have taken the opportunity, and I thought it was such a great word for every DeSantis and Christie are really leading the way.
01:00:50.000And she said, I believe our job for our nation or for my people in South Dakota is to teach and instruct and trust them with personal responsibility.
01:02:24.000in the Constitutional Republic, we should take note from all the people in the Old Testament that influenced the king, Joseph, for example, Esther, Mordecai, Jeremiah, Daniel, and that's not an exhaustive list.
01:02:46.000And that's why the founders had comfort as Christians, not putting in a national religion, but instead giving the freedom of, because they said, as long as we have the freedom of, Christians will influence this government.
01:02:59.000Earlier this week, I heard Graham Allen say, where are the pastors in this hour?
01:03:12.000And I have been so pleased to meet Greg Farrington, both of you guys, McClure, James Cadiz, Ken Graves, Jurgen, Jack Hibbs, who deserves a special shout out, who is as bold as ever.
01:04:30.000You know, I mean, that's you're willing to make that stand.
01:04:34.000And if you're not willing to throw down now, in this time of our nation, like you think it's going to get better, they have no idea how the shrinking control of government is coming.
01:04:47.000If Germany could throw the brakes on Nazi Germany 10 years before it happened, because of what was developing, and you see it when you read Bonhoeffer's book.
01:05:18.000They used Martin Luther's own words, the church, the founder of the Lutheran church of Germany, because he went in his later years, he went through a bad spell of being anti-Jewish.
01:06:47.000And he's never said no, just like you.
01:06:50.000And I said, Jack, I think people are going to be pretty depressed and despondent the day after, you know, right near the inauguration said, let's go do a massive happening now.
01:07:13.000Father, thank you for your incredible love.
01:07:15.000Lord Jesus, we just want to declare from our hearts we love you.
01:07:18.000And we thank you that you're the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.
01:07:23.000And, Lord, you are the author and finisher of our faith.
01:07:26.000And Lord, what you have begun this good work in us and in our nation, Lord, you will bring it to completion until the day that you come again, Lord Jesus.
01:07:35.000So we just commit our ways into your hands.
01:07:37.000Lord, just bless Charlie, strengthen him, bless Rob and myself.
01:07:41.000Strengthen us to be a voice for your kingdom and for our citizens, for our nation, Lord, and for the world.
01:07:54.000Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
01:07:56.000If you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com, where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win America's culture war.
01:08:03.000We're a movement of positivity and optimism.
01:08:06.000While everyone else is negative around you, do something positive around it.