The Charlie Kirk Show - What is Education? What is Truth? What is Beauty? ft. David Goodwin

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, this is the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 A phenomenal conversation with David Goodwin from the American Association for Christian Classical Schools.

00:00:06.000 Really great conversation of what is education, what is truth, what is beauty.

00:00:10.000 I think you'll really enjoy it.

00:00:11.000 You might think that you're sending your kid or grandkid to a good school.

00:00:14.000 You might think that your kid's getting a good education, but listen carefully.

00:00:18.000 You might not.

00:00:19.000 You might want to reconsider what school you're sending your kid or grandkid to.

00:00:22.000 It's the most important decision, one of the most important decisions you could make.

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00:00:32.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:33.000 Here we go.

00:00:34.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:36.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

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00:00:46.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:47.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

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00:01:33.000 Okay, everybody, a very special conversation here with my friend David Goodwin.

00:01:36.000 David, great to see you.

00:01:37.000 It's great to be with you, Charlie.

00:01:38.000 So, David, I'm going to ask a simple yet deep question.

00:01:41.000 What is education?

00:01:43.000 Well, there's a lot of answers to that.

00:01:45.000 But, you know, in our parlance in the classical Christian world, which is the area I'm familiar with, it's the cultivation of wisdom and virtue.

00:01:54.000 Pretty simple set of qualifiers there, but it takes a bit to unpack.

00:01:59.000 So you helped run, or you founded the Association of Classical Christian Schools?

00:02:04.000 I didn't find it, but I am the president of it, have been for the last decade or so.

00:02:10.000 So I toured one of your schools in Boise.

00:02:12.000 Yes, that's the one that I started.

00:02:14.000 I was very impressed.

00:02:16.000 And it was so different than traditional government-run schools and even private schools that have an industrial model, very German model.

00:02:26.000 Explain to our audience...

00:02:28.000 What is the philosophical difference between a classical education and a more industrial type of education?

00:02:37.000 Well, in a word, it would be the enculturation of children as opposed to informing them, just giving them a lot of facts.

00:02:47.000 So if you look at the industrial education that the progressives created in the early part of the 20th century, it was geared almost exclusively towards vocation, like teach kids how to make money.

00:02:58.000 And the classical education that had been there for years prior had always done a sufficient job of that, but it had been more focused on the enculturation.

00:03:11.000 And I think that's a lot of what happened to America.

00:03:13.000 When we took away the American culture, it started to decay. 0.96

00:03:17.000 And over the course of about 100 years, we find ourselves where we have been the last few.

00:03:23.000 Talk about how your classes are not set up necessarily in single file roles that it's much more discussion or dialogue based.

00:03:31.000 And just so everyone understands from one perspective, the industrial model is done by most government schools, most private schools, which is that kids are something to be programmed.

00:03:43.000 Mm-hmm.

00:03:47.000 Correct.

00:03:48.000 What does that mean?

00:03:50.000 Well, we're trying to cultivate the tools of knowledge.

00:03:54.000 How do you come to know things?

00:03:56.000 And that's a very different thing.

00:03:58.000 What do you mean by that?

00:03:59.000 Well, what I mean by that is, in the old world it was understood that knowledge isn't so easy to come by.

00:04:07.000 It's easy to get information.

00:04:09.000 We see that all over the place.

00:04:11.000 And then we have people calling.

00:04:12.000 Misinformation, right?

00:04:14.000 The real challenge is getting students who can discern truth from falsehood as they learn.

00:04:20.000 And so our focus is more about teaching them how to discern what is true than it is just telling them what the truth is.

00:04:31.000 The combination is some of what you saw when you were at the school in Boise where all of our schools have some form of this where it's conducted, at least in the high school and usually the junior high, around a large table where the students are taking apart ancient texts and trying to understand what is the truth contained in these and what is the falsehood in these and can we...

00:04:52.000 Align these with the truth of Jesus Christ and the scriptures, and that combination of exercises forms up this skill of acquiring knowledge, and that's the rare skill in our day today.

00:05:05.000 So why is it that our public schools have gravitated so far away from this practice of learning?

00:05:13.000 Well, they intentionally designed it that way.

00:05:18.000 About 1915. Mr. Dewey?

00:05:20.000 Yes, John Dewey.

00:05:22.000 Arch nemesis of liberty.

00:05:24.000 Exactly.

00:05:25.000 He thought that that kind of education that really taught students to discern knowledge wasn't helpful in an industrial economy.

00:05:35.000 We needed to train basically servile students to be able to do jobs. 0.98

00:05:41.000 Now, in his time, it was mostly factory work, but it later became engineering or science or STEM.

00:05:47.000 Instead of looking at the citizen and saying what makes a citizen capable of self-governance, which is what our founding fathers were involved with.

00:05:57.000 That's why they were all classically educated.

00:06:00.000 They just understood and assumed this.

00:06:02.000 And so John Dewey brings this in and our schools are immediately reoriented towards just basically programming kids to do.

00:06:11.000 At first, it was science, that kind of thing.

00:06:13.000 But, you know, you had the Maoist revolution and we learned a few things.

00:06:17.000 You know, the progressives learned a few things from that Maoist revolution.

00:06:21.000 I'm talking about the cultural revolution in the 1960s, not the original one.

00:06:26.000 When Mao realized that the best way to establish a communist government was to enculturate the people.

00:06:37.000 And so he took over the educational systems and indoctrinated them in that way.

00:06:41.000 And that's exactly what the progressives did in the latter half of the 20th century.

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00:07:51.000 even conservative parents will marvel and say, well, my local school, they have a great STEM program, and all I want out of my school is for them to do math and arithmetic and prepare them for a job.

00:08:03.000 You reject that premise.

00:08:05.000 Well, yes, because whatever job you prepare them for, at least in this economy, I mean, at least at the pragmatic level, is going to be gone by the time they graduate anyway.

00:08:15.000 So it's a pointless exercise, except one job.

00:08:20.000 That's always there, which is discerning truth, to understand, to know, to learn how to know.

00:08:26.000 You know, Dorothy Sayers in her essay on education that she did in the 1940s was titled The Lost Tools of Learning.

00:08:35.000 And what she said in that essay was that we used to teach kids the tools of learning and now we don't at a time, and I'm paraphrasing here, at a time when it's never been so important because radio and television and books are readily available and all these ideas are coming at these kids and they have no idea how to...

00:08:56.000 Discern what is true and what's not true.

00:08:59.000 So, of course, again, our nemesis in the progressive world, their idea is we'll just call it all fake news or what's the term they use?

00:09:09.000 Misinformation.

00:09:11.000 Disinformation.

00:09:11.000 We'll call it that.

00:09:13.000 And one side calls it fake, the other is disinformation.

00:09:16.000 And in reality, the kids need to be able to listen to it all and figure out what's true.

00:09:22.000 And that's the skill that we teach.

00:09:27.000 Right.

00:09:27.000 Well, that is a big part of the wisdom, wisdom and virtue.

00:09:33.000 When it comes to the Founding Fathers, this was their main focus for education, was wisdom and virtue, because they knew.

00:09:40.000 And it was visible, because as soon as the revolution was over and the country was established, You have Alexis de Tocqueville come here and he observes this about the country, that it's oddly educated, that farmers actually have read Cicero or Caesar.

00:09:59.000 And he's more used to the European, of course he was French, he was used to the European model where you've got the aristocrats who are educated in the greats and then the average farmer just does what he's told to do.

00:10:14.000 A very different picture here in America, and that's what de Tocqueville said kept us going.

00:10:20.000 That's a profound observation.

00:10:24.000 So the way the country is going now is government-run schools are failing terribly at even the basics.

00:10:30.000 We have private schools that don't embrace the classical model.

00:10:34.000 Is it fair to say the classical model takes more work?

00:10:38.000 Well, it certainly does on behalf, on the part of the student, the teachers as well.

00:10:43.000 It is harder for a kid to go through a classical education than go to local Bakersfield elementary.

00:10:49.000 You know, it's harder, but it's not necessarily more drudgery.

00:10:53.000 Because kids tend to react well when you challenge them, when you ask them to think.

00:10:59.000 Strength rejoices in the challenge.

00:11:01.000 Yes.

00:11:01.000 And the works that we use, the great books of the West, the Bible, there's a lot of depth in those.

00:11:08.000 And so I think a lot of kids, if we think back to our public school experience, certainly I was in the public schools, you were, I think, for a time.

00:11:14.000 That's right.

00:11:16.000 I see it more as tedium than anything else.

00:11:22.000 It wasn't that it was hard or easy, because some of my classes were hard.

00:11:25.000 It was that it just didn't seem to have a point.

00:11:28.000 It was monotonous.

00:11:29.000 Yeah.

00:11:30.000 So it wasn't pointing towards anything.

00:11:32.000 At your schools, the American Association of Classical Christian Schools, I'm sure the answer is yes, but talk about how you're unafraid to talk about objective truth.

00:11:43.000 That is one of the things that even some conservative parents say, well, I don't want a school or a government school or anyone.

00:11:50.000 Saying ever that there is an absolute good or truth.

00:11:53.000 Just teach the basics and move on.

00:11:55.000 Well, we start with the precept that there is absolute truth.

00:12:00.000 And the reason that's important is that everything else becomes pointless if you don't believe that, right?

00:12:06.000 What's the point in reading old books with ideas if none of them matter?

00:12:11.000 So, yes, you have to start there.

00:12:15.000 But when you start there, the world opens up.

00:12:18.000 It's a much bigger...

00:12:20.000 It's a much bigger form of education.

00:12:22.000 These kids, the most common things I hear from graduates of our schools when they return is that they've gotten to college and they find it, again, to be tedium.

00:12:33.000 Our schools are robust enough that...

00:12:36.000 Obviously, they can do the work.

00:12:37.000 Unless they go to Hillsdale.

00:12:38.000 Well, Hillsdale's an exception for sure.

00:12:42.000 There's a handful of those exceptions, but for most kids that go to the colleges, they can't find anybody who has an interesting mind, anybody who wants to discuss anything.

00:12:52.000 Everything is superficial.

00:12:53.000 So I think that's a lot of what we try and do in our schools, is just give kids a love for depth, a love for learning.

00:13:01.000 Yeah, they're more interested in inquiring about new ideas than they are arguing.

00:13:11.000 Because they're curious.

00:13:12.000 That's what we try and build.

00:13:13.000 It's called wonder in our form.

00:13:16.000 All men seek to know. 0.91

00:13:19.000 Philosophy starts with wonder?

00:13:21.000 Both of those are two different.

00:13:23.000 But I think it's one of the first lines of Aristotle's metaphysics.

00:13:26.000 Yes, exactly.

00:13:30.000 I'm going to look it up in a second here.

00:13:32.000 I know all men seek to know is the beginning of not the politics.

00:13:37.000 Separate one.

00:13:38.000 But actually, the beginning of politics is also every art, every inquiry, every action points towards some good.

00:13:43.000 And you have to have a definition of what the good is.

00:13:45.000 Right.

00:13:45.000 Exactly.

00:13:46.000 You're going to live under some superseding moral code.

00:13:49.000 And that's something that the progressives have done a very successful trick on us, making us believe that there could be an agnostic public square.

00:13:58.000 And I don't know if they ever believed that, but that's certainly what they want us to believe.

00:14:03.000 Because cultural Marxism has...

00:14:05.000 a very strong set of ideals that are transcendent in their view.

00:14:10.000 In their view, for example, wealth is necessarily evil or the equity of all, you know, leveling of all wealth, leveling of all status and stature is an ultimate good. leveling of all status and stature is an ultimate good.

00:14:29.000 And that's an unquestionable good in, I think, most progressive schools.

00:14:36.000 And it's one that needs to be questioned.

00:14:38.000 Music History, economics, the great works of literature.

00:14:43.000 Did you study these things in school?

00:14:45.000 Probably not.

00:14:46.000 Or even if you did, maybe it's time for an enjoyable refresher.

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00:15:43.000 So there's lots of parents listening to this right now, and they might think they're sending their kid to a solid school.

00:15:49.000 I'm not asking you to criticize them, but what are very simple questions that they can ask, a checklist of whether or not their school is truly pursuing what is good, true, and beautiful?

00:16:00.000 You know, that's funny.

00:16:02.000 These may sound a little bit strange, so I hope that...

00:16:05.000 No, please go through them.

00:16:06.000 I want parents to take notes and grandparents and then compare.

00:16:09.000 Yes, so...

00:16:10.000 The first one I would ask is, at what age do they read their full book, cover to cover?

00:16:17.000 Most schools these days have moved to just short little passages of readings they don't want to.

00:16:23.000 Yeah, the books.

00:16:24.000 And then the second question, beyond what is the age at which they read their first full book with chapters in it, not small readers, but an actual book with chapters, say, Little House on the Prairie or something like that.

00:16:39.000 Old Yeller.

00:16:40.000 Yeah, Old Yeller, any of those.

00:16:41.000 Then the next question would be, what is the greatest book that you guys read at this school?

00:16:48.000 And by that, I mean something that's older than 100 years old.

00:16:53.000 Just any book that's older than 100 years old that you read.

00:16:56.000 I think those two questions will often tease out answers that may surprise most parents.

00:17:01.000 I think this is what, when Pete Hegseth and I wrote Battle for the American Mind, he was fascinated and brought in some really good material on what he called the COVID-16-19 Project, which was back at the time, parents watching over the shoulders of their kids and realizing that what they were learning at school was very different than what the parents thought they were learning.

00:17:26.000 I love those, too.

00:17:31.000 So you're saying most schools, they don't read anything post-100 years, and they definitely won't even tell a kid, hey, here's an 11-chapter book, you must read it.

00:17:40.000 Right.

00:17:41.000 What age usually is that, do you find?

00:17:43.000 High school, if at all?

00:17:45.000 I have been surprised that even in high schools that's not happening anymore.

00:17:50.000 Do you think it's possible that there are kids right now that are juniors and seniors that have never read an entire book?

00:17:54.000 I know it's possible because I've met them.

00:17:57.000 Oh, come on. 0.87

00:17:58.000 You're trying to tell me there's kids that are juniors in high school in America that have never read a book.

00:18:02.000 Yes, it is very strange.

00:18:06.000 It's like it's a national security crisis.

00:18:09.000 If it weren't for the fact that the kids were standing in front of me telling me this, I probably wouldn't have believed it.

00:18:14.000 But it's not just that.

00:18:17.000 It's the quality of what they're reading, the content of what they're studying.

00:18:21.000 In this day and age, certainly one thing I would ask if I were a parent looking at a school is, when do you start teaching cursive?

00:18:28.000 Or do you start teaching cursive?

00:18:30.000 Yeah, they've gotten rid of it.

00:18:31.000 Most of them have gotten rid of it.

00:18:34.000 You're going to have to convince me on the cursive one.

00:18:36.000 I was taught cursive.

00:18:37.000 What utility is there?

00:18:40.000 Well, it's interesting.

00:18:41.000 What does it form?

00:18:43.000 It forms an aesthetic, which is kind of a...

00:18:47.000 In classical education, we talk about the three transcendentals, truth, goodness, and beauty.

00:18:51.000 Those are the three axes, if you will, kind of if you think of it like a Cartesian plane, just like height, width, and depth.

00:18:57.000 In the world of ideas, in the world of content and material, everything is measured in those three axes, truth, goodness, and beauty.

00:19:06.000 And the beauty axis has been forgotten.

00:19:08.000 forgotten for a long time.

00:19:09.000 I totally agree.

00:19:10.000 If you just want to capture a little bit of this, just look at the Declaration of Independence and look at the signatures on it.

00:19:18.000 And John Hancock's signature is the one we often think of because it's so large.

00:19:24.000 But men of his day actually sought to create a distinctive cursive hand because it was viewed as part of their refinement to become a better person because they had beauty even in the hand in which they wrote.

00:19:42.000 And And this is something that we teach kids, you know.

00:19:49.000 So that's kind of maybe more of an ethereal answer to your question.

00:19:54.000 No, I'm tracking.

00:19:55.000 But there's also the fine motor skills that you gain from that.

00:20:00.000 Our kids' fine motor skills at this point are really defined by tapping iPad.

00:20:07.000 I think using a pen to write in a very precise way is a way to build that.

00:20:14.000 And then there's just the aspect that cursive is an efficient way to write.

00:20:20.000 And there are times when you should write in a book.

00:20:22.000 And it's also just for no other reason than it's different and challenges you.

00:20:26.000 It does.

00:20:29.000 And if you've got a good teacher, if it's not just somebody who wants you to accomplish it.

00:20:32.000 Yeah, I felt it was, at least in my memory, it was very monotonous.

00:20:35.000 I didn't like it.

00:20:36.000 It was a pain or a labor.

00:20:39.000 The best teachers are the ones who have had some background in script writing.

00:20:46.000 Like calligraphers do.

00:20:49.000 Calligraphy writing.

00:20:50.000 Those teachers can really bring it alive for the kids.

00:20:53.000 It's like anything else.

00:20:54.000 In classical education...

00:20:56.000 It was mandated in the schools I went to.

00:20:58.000 Not in the public schools, but in the Christian school and then the school I went to prior.

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00:22:19.000 So, parents, those two questions are phenomenal.

00:22:24.000 What other ones?

00:22:25.000 I mean, when I walked through your school, what was the name of the school in Boise again?

00:22:28.000 The Ambrose School.

00:22:29.000 The Ambrose School?

00:22:31.000 When I walked through the Ambrose School, I was struck by how many old paintings.

00:22:36.000 Old pictures of paintings, statues.

00:22:39.000 I'm talking about thousands of years old, or hundreds of years old.

00:22:42.000 Montesquieu to Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Pascal.

00:22:46.000 Remember, I brought Blake with me and he was naming all the...

00:22:49.000 Remember that?

00:22:51.000 Boy, that was a couple years ago.

00:22:54.000 Is there something to the idea of we want to have the students surrounded by the old? 1.00

00:23:02.000 And the last thing.

00:23:03.000 Yes.

00:23:04.000 In fact, it ties back to the beauty thing.

00:23:07.000 Of course.

00:23:07.000 That which is perfected in being.

00:23:09.000 I think Churchill said, and I always watch this, but we make our buildings and then our buildings make us.

00:23:16.000 The idea that...

00:23:19.000 The architecture influences.

00:23:21.000 So the building you were in was designed from the ground up to be a school.

00:23:24.000 It's beautiful.

00:23:25.000 And it's designed to cultivate in kids an appreciation for old tradition and for a love of great art.

00:23:31.000 And so that's why that's in there.

00:23:33.000 But I think if you look around at your typical public school, it speaks as well architecturally.

00:23:40.000 Typically it's highly utilitarian.

00:23:42.000 It's like a cabinet drawer.

00:23:43.000 Yeah.

00:23:44.000 It's utilitarian.

00:23:45.000 It's functional.

00:23:47.000 It doesn't...

00:23:49.000 Point up.

00:23:50.000 It does not point up.

00:23:51.000 It does not play to the humanity of the students.

00:23:53.000 It plays to them as though they're computers.

00:23:56.000 They're widgets.

00:23:56.000 Yes.

00:23:57.000 You could put a bunch of computers in those buildings and they would very easily...

00:24:01.000 It could be a data center.

00:24:02.000 Exactly.

00:24:03.000 Exactly.

00:24:04.000 I think that's exactly right.

00:24:05.000 And you look at the actual picture of the Department of Education, it actually looks like a file cabinet.

00:24:12.000 Yes.

00:24:12.000 Because that's literally what bureaucrat means.

00:24:14.000 It means desk worker.

00:24:16.000 So we only have a couple minutes remaining here.

00:24:18.000 I could talk about this all day long.

00:24:20.000 Before we get into any specifics you want to plug, do you think that the current trend is favorable in American education right now?

00:24:28.000 I do think it is, and I think it is for several reasons.

00:24:31.000 Certainly, Trump has shown us that there is a way forward.

00:24:37.000 There's a way to push back against the cultural Marxism that has dominated this country over the last many years.

00:24:45.000 I think that classical Christian education, it plays a particular role.

00:24:50.000 I think that parents are finding it, I would say it's the dominant alternate form to the public schools right now.

00:24:58.000 It's coming in a variety of forms, some of them charters, some...

00:25:05.000 Classical Christian privates, you know, various forms of it.

00:25:09.000 I feel new energy behind this.

00:25:11.000 Yes, there is.

00:25:12.000 And the energy, it's a little frightening for some of us.

00:25:15.000 I've been in this 30 years, and at first no one cared what we were doing because no one knew we existed.

00:25:21.000 And now people are starting to look.

00:25:23.000 We're getting criticism from quarters trying to restore that dastardly Western tradition that they would rather have go away.

00:25:33.000 Because they want the West to go away.

00:25:34.000 They want the West gone.

00:25:35.000 So they must get rid of the tradition and get rid of the West. 0.99

00:25:37.000 And the thing that perpetuates the tradition is the enemy.

00:25:41.000 And so they definitely are starting to notice classical education, certainly what's happened in Florida with the growth.

00:25:51.000 DeSantis is pushing the entire state, whether it's the collegiate level or the K-12 level, in this classical direction.

00:25:59.000 So I think it's our time.

00:26:04.000 I totally agree, and I think that people are seeing the excesses of modernity.

00:26:09.000 They're seeing the lies of secularized, hyper-modernist, materialistic culture, and they want to go back towards what is lasting, what is true.

00:26:21.000 Now, Catholic education tends to be more classical.

00:26:25.000 Is that fair to say?

00:26:26.000 Because when I think of classical, I think of it more Catholic in nature.

00:26:31.000 You guys are Protestant, is that correct?

00:26:34.000 ACCS is Protestant.

00:26:35.000 I would say, my friends in the Catholic movement would say it's not.

00:26:38.000 Really?

00:26:39.000 Okay.

00:26:39.000 And it's odd.

00:26:40.000 There are Catholic classical schools.

00:26:42.000 There are, and they're very good.

00:26:44.000 Yes.

00:26:44.000 So I'm not totally on that.

00:26:45.000 No, you're not.

00:26:47.000 The thing was is that in the mid-1900s, I'm sorry, mid-1800s, the Blaine Amendments were put in to try and freeze out the Catholics.

00:26:55.000 So the Catholics formed their own school systems that then rode right alongside the progressive school system.

00:27:00.000 Tell me about the Blaine Amendments.

00:27:02.000 I don't know about this.

00:27:03.000 Well, the Blaine Amendment, it's named after a senator who tried to pass it nationally.

00:27:07.000 And basically, it was the Protestant Church so despised the Catholic Church in America at the time that they were trying to freeze the Catholics out of...

00:27:18.000 They did not want any Catholic education whatsoever.

00:27:22.000 Backfired.

00:27:22.000 Catholics have more schools than Protestants.

00:27:24.000 Exactly.

00:27:24.000 They do, because the Blaine Amendment said you can't spend any money, any federal money, or any state money on...

00:27:34.000 Religious education.

00:27:35.000 And so that pushed the Catholics out. 0.93

00:27:37.000 They formed their own system.

00:27:39.000 That system paralleled and pretty much took on the progressive form in the early part of the 20th century when the progressives revolutionized education in the United States.

00:27:48.000 It was a big movement.

00:27:49.000 And so those, what are often called the diocese schools within the Catholic Church, can oftentimes be very progressive in their form.

00:28:01.000 The Catholic Church is very traditional, and so it's recovering quickly its old form, the form of education that was native to those schools originally, and they're putting it back into place rapidly.

00:28:13.000 So I'm very optimistic about that.

00:28:15.000 I'm excited about what they're contributing to the movement because they have a very deep history.

00:28:22.000 How can people support you, get involved, and learn more?

00:28:26.000 Well, you can learn more at classicalchristian.org.

00:28:31.000 That is our main site that directs people in any which direction you want to go, whether you want to teach in our schools, whether you want to find a school, start a school.

00:28:41.000 So I would advise that you start there.

00:28:44.000 And closing thoughts for parents that might like the local football team, but they know the school's no good.

00:28:52.000 Well...

00:28:53.000 Just visit one of these schools.

00:28:55.000 I agree.

00:28:56.000 You just walk in.

00:28:57.000 You live in Boise.

00:28:58.000 You've got to check it out.

00:28:59.000 Yeah.

00:28:59.000 Well, any one of them in any state, if you go in during operations, I think, Charlie, you were there after hours a little bit.

00:29:08.000 I can't remember.

00:29:08.000 But if you go during operations, no matter what you see, you'll notice it's different.

00:29:14.000 David, you've been a great friend, and congrats to our friend Pete Hegseth, by the way, your co-author.

00:29:20.000 Yes.

00:29:20.000 Good deal.

00:29:21.000 And we at Turning Point Academy are here to help in any way we possibly can.

00:29:25.000 We love what you guys are doing.

00:29:26.000 And Hutz is special, isn't he?

00:29:28.000 He's a wonderful guy.

00:29:29.000 And the work that you guys are doing, you very much recognize this space.

00:29:33.000 Well, thank you.

00:29:34.000 And I want to see more classical schools pop up.

00:29:37.000 I want to see more classical Christian schools pop up in particular.

00:29:41.000 And I'm really impressed.

00:29:43.000 And thank you, David, for your time.

00:29:44.000 Thank you.

00:29:45.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:29:46.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:29:49.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - February 21, 2025

What is Education? What is Truth? What is Beauty? ft. David Goodwin

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