The Charlie Kirk Show - What the Bible Tells Us About "Social Justice" with Pastor David Engelhardt

00:00:00.000 Happy Sunday, everybody.

00:00:01.000 This is an exclusive conversation that you'll find only on our podcast, advertiser-free, with Pastor David Engelhart, pastor of King's Church in New York City, the big apple.

00:00:10.000 If any of you live in New York City or are near New York City, go to David's church.

00:00:14.000 He is awesome.

00:00:15.000 This is a unscripted, free-flowing, somewhat all-over-the-place conversation, but we land the plane.

00:00:21.000 It's a lot of fun.

00:00:22.000 It's as if we were just talking as friends in a long car ride.

00:00:25.000 You're going to love it.

00:00:26.000 David is phenomenal.

00:00:28.000 Great friend of mine.

00:00:29.000 Please consider supporting this advertiser-free episode at charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:34.000 Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:00:36.000 Pastor David Engelhart is here.

00:00:39.000 Buckle up.

00:00:39.000 Here we go.

00:00:41.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:42.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:44.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:48.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:51.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:52.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:53.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:55.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:01:00.000 Turning point USA.

00:01:02.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:10.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:14.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:14.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show special Sunday edition, advertiser-free.

00:01:19.000 Thanks to all of you that support us, charliekirk.com slash support.

00:01:22.000 I'm hanging out with my friend, Pastor David Engelhart.

00:01:25.000 Let me just say hard stop.

00:01:26.000 If you are in the city of New York, the tri-state area, go to King's Church.

00:01:30.000 It might be the fastest growing church in New York City.

00:01:32.000 Is that right, David?

00:01:33.000 I think it is.

00:01:34.000 I think it is mainly because of Charlie Kirk.

00:01:37.000 A little bit of my preaching, but mainly.

00:01:39.000 It's your preaching, very little of me.

00:01:41.000 But go there, everybody.

00:01:42.000 Everyone says, I want a non-woke church in New York City.

00:01:45.000 Well, there are millions of people in New York, and we have tens of thousands of listeners in New York.

00:01:50.000 Therefore, go to King's Church.

00:01:52.000 Where are you guys located in New York?

00:01:53.000 We are between the two bridges.

00:01:55.000 So if you know where the Brooklyn Bridge is, you're almost a stone's throw away from our church, really that close.

00:02:00.000 So you're in Manhattan now.

00:02:02.000 Downtown Manhattan.

00:02:02.000 So you're in Wall Street area.

00:02:04.000 So we live like just a block north of Wall Street.

00:02:07.000 It's technically like three quarters of a mile from Wall Street to this other neighborhood called the Two Bridges.

00:02:12.000 And that's the churches at Church.

00:02:14.000 King's Church is right there.

00:02:15.000 So check it out.

00:02:16.000 King's Church NYC.

00:02:18.000 Yes.

00:02:18.000 KCNYC.org to check out our website and podcast.

00:02:22.000 KCNYC.org.

00:02:24.000 Yeah.

00:02:24.000 Pastor David Engelhart, one of the best guys on theology, what's happening in the world, taking a stand.

00:02:31.000 You know, David, I do a lot of interviews, and I first got aware of you because of Erica, my fiancé.

00:02:36.000 She's like, you have to have this guy on your podcast.

00:02:38.000 And I was like, okay.

00:02:40.000 I told you the story because it's great.

00:02:41.000 No, I took it seriously, but I was exhausted, right?

00:02:44.000 And she knew you from a previous, you know, whatever.

00:02:46.000 Yeah.

00:02:47.000 And yeah, and she was like, he's so good on this.

00:02:50.000 And I get recommendations all the time.

00:02:52.000 And not every interview I do, I'm super enthused about, you know, but I'm not, we have amazing guests.

00:02:57.000 And I shouldn't say it that way, but you know what I mean.

00:02:59.000 But I was like, all right, whatever.

00:03:01.000 And after five minutes, I was so into what you were saying that I was like, I wish we had more time.

00:03:05.000 I want to get to know you better.

00:03:06.000 It's like, let's fly this guy out.

00:03:08.000 We're going to have a lot of fun.

00:03:09.000 And we've had a relation, you know, a really good relationship ever since.

00:03:11.000 And you're a turning point, you say, board member now.

00:03:13.000 Yes.

00:03:14.000 And things are going really well.

00:03:15.000 So introduce yourself because our audience has nearly quadrupled since the last time you've joined our podcast, which was back in December when you came on the panel and then before that.

00:03:27.000 So just introduce yourself and then let's get into some fun stuff.

00:03:29.000 Yeah.

00:03:29.000 So I'm from New York State.

00:03:32.000 I grew up upstate.

00:03:33.000 My dad has been pastoring a church in New York State my whole life.

00:03:36.000 So I grew up as a pastor's kid.

00:03:38.000 And then I went to, got my degree in philosophy.

00:03:42.000 And then I was on staff at a couple of churches for about 10 years in the Northwest between Portland, Oregon, and a couple of places in Washington.

00:03:52.000 And then at that point, I went to law school, really felt a call of God to transition and go to law school.

00:03:58.000 And, you know, some great preachers have gone to law school.

00:04:01.000 Charles Finney, the great revivalist, he was a lawyer.

00:04:04.000 And there's something about using that analytic ability in the scripture.

00:04:08.000 You know, a lot of our preachers are very passionate, compassionate, and passionate.

00:04:13.000 And that's great.

00:04:14.000 But if Jesus, you know, one of the things he said to the Pharisees, Pharisees, he said, you know neither the scripture nor the power of God.

00:04:22.000 There's a combination between the power of God, that life, power, passion, and like an analytic ability to understand the scriptures, not just on a surface level, but go into what does it actually mean.

00:04:34.000 So that training was really, really valuable.

00:04:36.000 And I think it's really was, I mean, to get it to be in New York City and to be a pastor and say, you know, a lot of people think like a pastor's degree is like a degree in fairy dust, right?

00:04:45.000 Truly, right?

00:04:46.000 So now we have guys that are really, you know, all over the place with finance and science and law and a lot of high-end people.

00:04:55.000 And they see a legal degree as something that's a little bit more, has a little bit more weight to it than a standard M. Div.

00:05:01.000 And while I have theological accreditation, really what's sharpened me in the word, believe it or not, has been the ability of law to go in there and chop it up.

00:05:11.000 Calvin was a lawyer.

00:05:13.000 I'm not a Calvinist, but he was a lawyer.

00:05:14.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:05:15.000 So there's something there.

00:05:16.000 My dad says, I'm a Calvinist for me and not for you.

00:05:19.000 So I believe that I'm chosen by God, but I don't know about you.

00:05:23.000 You got to work that out.

00:05:24.000 Yeah, that's funny.

00:05:24.000 That's funny.

00:05:25.000 So as in Isaiah, I think the first chapter, let us reason together.

00:05:28.000 Yes.

00:05:29.000 Let us use our mind, our faculty.

00:05:31.000 Yes.

00:05:32.000 And we shouldn't only use our mind.

00:05:34.000 God gave us a spirit.

00:05:36.000 But the Lord made us thinking beings because he made us speaking beings.

00:05:41.000 Aristotle articulated that probably better than any other philosopher.

00:05:45.000 Well, love the Lord with your heart, mind, soul, and strength.

00:05:48.000 So there's, I mean, and this is a bifurcation we see.

00:05:51.000 We see a lot of guys that are loving the Lord with their mind, but then they leave their heart out of it.

00:05:57.000 And then you have guys that have their heart fully in it, and then they say wacky things.

00:06:01.000 Their mind is not in it.

00:06:03.000 And we are, you know, John chapter 1 says, Jesus was full of grace and full of truth.

00:06:08.000 He wasn't half truth and half grace.

00:06:10.000 He wasn't half heart and half knowledge.

00:06:12.000 He was fullness.

00:06:14.000 And that's our obligation is to pursue the mind side with the fullness and the heart side with the fullness.

00:06:21.000 And love John 1 because it's a creation narrative.

00:06:25.000 There's only two creation narratives.

00:06:26.000 They're both the same, by the way.

00:06:27.000 They're not contradictory.

00:06:29.000 They just talk about the same thing differently, which is in the beginning there was the word.

00:06:34.000 Yes.

00:06:34.000 And it's amazing in the beginning and Genesis in the beginning.

00:06:37.000 And you have these rhyming, harmonic creation stories.

00:06:42.000 And so this is something that people don't get.

00:06:44.000 Like when they think of what is a word, right?

00:06:47.000 A word is a vehicle of meaning.

00:06:50.000 So when you say dog, you hear that sound, the D, the O, the G, and it carries with it this furry, waggy tail beast.

00:06:59.000 It carries with it meaning.

00:07:00.000 And so if we think about it from a definitional perspective, in the beginning was meaning, and that meaning was God.

00:07:08.000 And all things were created through God's meaning.

00:07:11.000 And evolution tells us exactly the opposite.

00:07:14.000 It started with no meaning, with a random cacophony of atoms that exploded.

00:07:20.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:20.000 Craps table.

00:07:21.000 Throw the craps, see what comes up.

00:07:23.000 And instead, the exact opposite is John 1.

00:07:25.000 In the beginning, God created all of this through his meaning.

00:07:28.000 Every part has meaning inside God's plan.

00:07:32.000 And so this is what's called the common noun miracle.

00:07:36.000 And not to harp too much on Aristotle, but it's hard not to when we talk about things that make sense because that's really what he focused on.

00:07:43.000 So sometimes I'm in private groups and people say, Charlie, explain to me what Aristotle argued.

00:07:52.000 And again, none of our teachers talk about this properly, but this is exactly what we're talking about.

00:07:56.000 So words have meaning.

00:07:57.000 So, for example, if I said, David, go in the other room and find me a pen.

00:08:03.000 You've never seen that pen before, but your mind has the ability to know what a pen is, and then you'd be able to recognize it easily, get it, and bring it back to me.

00:08:11.000 This is light work for human beings, but it's a common noun miracle.

00:08:16.000 No other species except human beings are able to organize things based on their meaning, therefore the good.

00:08:22.000 You're right.

00:08:23.000 And then you have philosophers that, you know, they leave the basic, like guys like Aristotle had such a profound understanding of ideas like good and virtue.

00:08:33.000 You come into, you know, our last century, you got guys like Wittgenstein that are saying, like, meaning is only a, it's a beetle in a box.

00:08:40.000 And you say, well, what is the beetle?

00:08:41.000 And the answer is, in Wittgenstein, it doesn't matter.

00:08:44.000 I have an idea and a concept.

00:08:46.000 It's a hidden box.

00:08:47.000 You'll never be able to know what it is.

00:08:49.000 You have some other kind of meaning inside of that box.

00:08:52.000 And there's not that kind of sense that there's something that we can agree upon.

00:08:56.000 We're all just chaos, matter, banging into each other, hoping that we agree.

00:09:01.000 It's totally godless.

00:09:03.000 It's totally void of purpose and meaning.

00:09:05.000 Yes.

00:09:06.000 And Nietzsche, probably better known for kind of pioneering this.

00:09:12.000 And Nietzsche's philosophy only makes sense if you accept his proclamation that God is dead.

00:09:19.000 Nothing else that he says about creating the Übermensch, the superhuman person, the will of a person, that what you the way he described the will in German was not even the way we understand it.

00:09:33.000 It's this almost supernatural desire to bring yourself from the random chaos of particles to something above yourself.

00:09:42.000 And we have an entire generation now that has basically been fed Nietzsche and not the idea of ethics or virtue or God-breathed existence.

00:09:52.000 Yeah, I can't remember the entire quote, but a God is dead.

00:09:55.000 It is we who have done it.

00:09:56.000 His blood is upon our hands.

00:09:57.000 What shall we do to atone for?

00:09:59.000 That's right.

00:10:00.000 It was a man in the public square.

00:10:01.000 It was written in a fictional narrative, screaming to the skies.

00:10:04.000 It's often quoted, but people don't actually know the framework that it was in.

00:10:08.000 Yeah, and it's our fault in the context of humanism, in the context of rejection of God, rejection of morality, and this sense of self now, experience, and flesh being all that we have, and there's nothing that goes beyond.

00:10:25.000 There is no meaning.

00:10:26.000 It's just immediate physical experiences.

00:10:29.000 And if we can have those, then okay.

00:10:30.000 But if we don't, it's not a big deal.

00:10:32.000 So you read guys like Kafka who are influenced by this.

00:10:35.000 Their writings are so dark and so there's no afterlife.

00:10:40.000 There's no purpose.

00:10:41.000 There's no direction.

00:10:42.000 There's no great judge who will judge me for my acts.

00:10:46.000 It's let me let me pile up the physical experience that I can have and then I'm done for, which is the culture we currently live in.

00:10:53.000 So I can trash foot locker because there's no God that's ever going to judge me.

00:10:58.000 I want 29 pairs of Air Jordans and I want to burn down the system because they're bad.

00:11:02.000 But, you know, that's it.

00:11:03.000 We all end at the end of the day.

00:11:04.000 And so the word purpose is my new favorite word of the month.

00:11:08.000 And it comes from a Greek word, telos.

00:11:12.000 And that's where we get the word telescope from, which means far out in the distance, that which we are aiming for, right?

00:11:18.000 Aim, direction.

00:11:20.000 Exactly.

00:11:20.000 Teleology.

00:11:21.000 Precisely, right? 1.00

00:11:22.000 And so I love going back to the Greek.

00:11:25.000 Not that I speak Greek.

00:11:26.000 I don't. 1.00

00:11:27.000 Just pretend.

00:11:27.000 I know a small collection.

00:11:28.000 I just pretend.

00:11:29.000 But I know a small amount of Greek words and it's expanding every day.

00:11:32.000 And actually, I think one of the greatest disservices of our education system is I never learned rudimentary Hebrew, Greek, or Latin.

00:11:38.000 I wish I had to.

00:11:39.000 My boy's actually learning because they're homeschooled. 1.00

00:11:42.000 Hopefully, I don't learn Chinese.

00:11:44.000 No, because they're homeschooled and they're in this classical conversation style of education.

00:11:48.000 They do basic Greek so they can understand language, which is yeah, and it's so just basic word structure.

00:11:55.000 So many of our words come from Greek terms, especially the important words.

00:12:00.000 And so purpose.

00:12:01.000 You're a pastor.

00:12:02.000 You deal with broken people.

00:12:03.000 You deal with people in a city that is about climbing a social ladder, living in a small apartment and trying to be very, very either rich or important.

00:12:17.000 And you're ministering to broken people.

00:12:20.000 Do we have a purpose crisis in our country?

00:12:23.000 I think we have a wrong purpose crisis.

00:12:25.000 You know what I mean?

00:12:26.000 Like there's purpose.

00:12:27.000 People have purpose.

00:12:28.000 The purpose is to climb the ladder.

00:12:29.000 If you think about the ancient cities, you think about Egypt, you think about the Aztec cultures.

00:12:34.000 You see these great monolithic structures that all are like these triangular.

00:12:40.000 They reach high.

00:12:41.000 And it reminds me of the Tower of Babel, this tower that was as high as they can possibly build it.

00:12:47.000 And cities create these atmospheres of competition where people are fighting with each other to be the best.

00:12:54.000 C.S. Lewis says that pride at its essence and core is competition.

00:12:58.000 And you see the devil saying in his mind to God, I can be like you.

00:13:02.000 I can be better than you.

00:13:03.000 I can take your position.

00:13:04.000 And so cities breed that competitive nature.

00:13:08.000 In some sense, it's really good to have competition if it's healthy.

00:13:11.000 But obviously the manifestation we have in a place like New York City is not healthy.

00:13:15.000 It's really dangerous.

00:13:16.000 I have a whole theory about this.

00:13:17.000 And so funny you mention it.

00:13:18.000 I say the higher the buildings, the more godless the city is.

00:13:21.000 It's always.

00:13:22.000 You look at Hong Kong, you look at Singapore, you look at Beijing. 1.00

00:13:25.000 Let's say that there are no Christians, but there's something to the point of this physical, I'm going to get as close to the heavens. 1.00

00:13:33.000 Absolutely. 0.78

00:13:34.000 And it's interesting, the most godly parts of America are actually the places without the big buildings.

00:13:40.000 You know, J.R.R. Tolkien in his masterpiece, the trilogy, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, I was reading some of this Catholic thinker, his name is Benjamin Weicker.

00:13:50.000 He wrote a book called The Ten Books Every Conservative Must Read.

00:13:53.000 Incredible book.

00:13:54.000 What are the 10 books?

00:13:57.000 Burke, Reflections on the Revolution.

00:13:59.000 Easy.

00:13:59.000 C.S. Lewis, the Evolution of Man or Abolition of Man.

00:14:07.000 Either evolution or abolition.

00:14:08.000 I think it's abolition.

00:14:08.000 Abolition of Man is that one.

00:14:10.000 He's got a handful of others that are really incredible.

00:14:13.000 It's in my suitcase, actually.

00:14:15.000 But he says that the orcs come from the cities with the buildings and the machines and the towers.

00:14:23.000 And he's writing and he's going out to the country with his family or as a child and having to come back to the city.

00:14:30.000 And the Industrial Revolution is chaos throughout the city and wage stuff is horrible.

00:14:35.000 And so his whole idea was that in the city, there's a place where you're anonymous.

00:14:40.000 You're not known by family.

00:14:42.000 You're in competition for material products for those around you.

00:14:45.000 And you're becoming like an orc, like some kind of beast.

00:14:48.000 But it's the shire, the place that's family and food and friendship.

00:14:54.000 That's the place where real strength comes.

00:14:56.000 And Burke says that.

00:14:57.000 And Chesterton says that.

00:14:59.000 He says, we love, Chesterton says it really clearly.

00:15:01.000 We love our country because we love our family.

00:15:04.000 And because I love my family, I love my community and I love my city and I love my nation.

00:15:08.000 And of course, like we like America also because of the ideal.

00:15:11.000 But I hope if I lived in Ireland, I would still love my family and my neighborhood and my country.

00:15:17.000 Like we were talking about that earlier, about Paul in Romans 9 through 11, the incredibly deep love.

00:15:23.000 It was so deep that he said he had for Israel that he said, I would be willing to give up my salvation for these people, that I would be damned for them.

00:15:32.000 So talk about Romans 9 through 11. 0.94

00:15:34.000 A theme there, most American pastors will say, that means we must love Israel like Paul loved Israel.

00:15:41.000 I'm very pro-Israel.

00:15:42.000 So are you.

00:15:43.000 But that's actually not what he's saying.

00:15:45.000 Yeah, I really like Israel.

00:15:47.000 I like Israel for geopolitical reasons.

00:15:50.000 And Paul says, what benefit does Israel have? 0.74

00:15:53.000 There is much.

00:15:53.000 They've been given the law, et cetera, et cetera.

00:15:55.000 But Paul is speaking, you know, in the book of Romans, he's talking about how much he loves personally the nation of Israel in an incredibly deep and passionate way.

00:16:04.000 Now, you've got to remember the context of this.

00:16:06.000 They have just completely and totally rejected Christ, except a very, very small sliver of them. 0.93

00:16:12.000 And that small sliver will essentially lead into the Gentile world, and the Gentile world will go ablaze with Christianity, not the Jewish world. 0.93

00:16:19.000 They'll mostly reject Jesus. 0.93

00:16:21.000 And Paul is seeing this and he's burdened by this.

00:16:25.000 And he's like, and so he's got this incredible burden for his nation.

00:16:28.000 And we don't understand that.

00:16:30.000 The applicable context to us is we're, it's also godly for us to have a burden for our nation, for our people, for our, again, mothers, brothers, sisters, family.

00:16:42.000 And that's that's a Christian ethic to love your land, to love the place that God gave you.

00:16:47.000 And to care for the welfare of it.

00:16:50.000 And so in Jeremiah, and I actually don't know the context of this verse, and I should, but I think it's Jeremiah 29.

00:16:58.000 But the essence of what is being said, and you hear this quoted probably quite often, is show concern or seek, right?

00:17:07.000 Which comes from the Hebrew word, I think, badrash, the welfare, shalem, or shalom of the city of which you are in, or the nation of which you are in.

00:17:15.000 Because your welfare is tied to the welfare of the nation.

00:17:18.000 And we actually know that's a true biblical principle.

00:17:20.000 That's right. 0.77

00:17:21.000 Because the Soviet Union's welfare was tied to its citizens' welfare. 0.65

00:17:24.000 Absolutely. 0.57

00:17:25.000 And it's bifurcated in the scripture.

00:17:27.000 It says two things.

00:17:28.000 It says to do two things. 0.99

00:17:29.000 And this is the thing that this frustrates me about many Christians.

00:17:33.000 The scripture says, seek the peace, seek the peace and pray.

00:17:37.000 Two different things.

00:17:38.000 And we have a lot of Christians that are happy with praying.

00:17:41.000 They're writing prayers.

00:17:42.000 They're going to say that.

00:17:43.000 Yes.

00:17:43.000 Praying for the nation, but they won't seek the peace.

00:17:46.000 They won't actually physically act and engage in local politics like Rob McCoy does.

00:17:52.000 And so that word, Badrash, means demand.

00:17:56.000 It doesn't mean just like go try and find it.

00:17:59.000 No, demand.

00:18:00.000 So are you demanding the peace of your city?

00:18:02.000 Right, right.

00:18:03.000 And how do you demand the peace of your city?

00:18:05.000 This is important because when I read about justice throughout the Old Testament, I can't wait to get into this with you.

00:18:11.000 I don't see it as the same thing as mercy.

00:18:14.000 We're so confused as a society.

00:18:16.000 We think mercy is justice.

00:18:18.000 Now, the scripture says that God's throne is established on justice and mercy flows forth from him.

00:18:25.000 And that's how the earth, that's how the moral landscape actually is.

00:18:30.000 If we don't have justice, we can't then exercise mercy.

00:18:33.000 So if I steal something from you, it's not merciful for me to give that to another person.

00:18:41.000 It's unjust.

00:18:43.000 Now, if you said, David, you know what? 1.00

00:18:46.000 You're a pathetic poor person. 1.00

00:18:49.000 I'm going to allow you to keep that. 1.00

00:18:52.000 You're reckoning that I did something wrong.

00:18:54.000 That's justice, but then you're doing some greater act of love directed towards me.

00:18:59.000 That's mercy.

00:19:00.000 And so we have a culture that's totally ejected justice.

00:19:04.000 And we have, you know, for instance, we have people.

00:19:09.000 I just read a story in Vodie Backham's new book, Fault Lines, about a young black lady that she alleged really incredibly dark, racist allegations against this other white person in her school.

00:19:25.000 And they found out they were totally false.

00:19:27.000 And they did nothing. 1.00

00:19:29.000 There was no penalty to this lady. 1.00

00:19:31.000 Now, you probably.

00:19:35.000 So this is what it says.

00:19:36.000 I think in Leviticus, it says, to the person that does that with bearing false witness, whatever punishment they were trying to bring on that person, bring it back upon the person that did it.

00:19:48.000 So the fear of the Lord will come and you'll get rid of that darkness from the land.

00:19:52.000 And that's a darkness that we're allowing.

00:19:54.000 We're saying, well, there was slavery.

00:19:55.000 So I guess we're going to allow injustice to run freely in our nation.

00:19:59.000 So let's get really specific.

00:20:02.000 What is justice?

00:20:03.000 This word is thrown around all the time.

00:20:05.000 We have our department of justice.

00:20:06.000 We need social justice.

00:20:08.000 We need racial justice.

00:20:10.000 We need environmental justice.

00:20:12.000 What is justice?

00:20:13.000 Yeah.

00:20:14.000 Justice is essentially, justice is giving to each his due.

00:20:18.000 So if you kill someone.

00:20:20.000 Under God's law.

00:20:21.000 So getting what you deserve.

00:20:23.000 It's getting what you deserve.

00:20:24.000 So action.

00:20:25.000 Punishment.

00:20:25.000 That's right.

00:20:26.000 Or action.

00:20:27.000 Or reward.

00:20:28.000 Or reward.

00:20:28.000 Reaction.

00:20:28.000 Right.

00:20:29.000 So you stay loyally married to your wife.

00:20:29.000 Reward.

00:20:32.000 You're going to live a happier and peaceful life.

00:20:34.000 That's right.

00:20:35.000 So justice is getting what you deserve.

00:20:38.000 Yes.

00:20:38.000 Meaning there is a reaction to an action.

00:20:40.000 And God, Charlie, is perfectly just, which is why every man and woman will get what they deserve ultimately.

00:20:49.000 Which is eternal damnation unless they received the grace or mercy of God through the gift of Jesus Christ, who took that punishment because God, if God is good, then he's perfectly just and everyone gets exactly what they deserve.

00:21:07.000 So let's dive into this more.

00:21:09.000 So a young person listening to this right now, one of our turning point USA high school chapter leaders, maybe one of our turning point college leaders, they just had to hear their college professor tell them, we need social justice.

00:21:21.000 What is that?

00:21:22.000 Yeah, social justice is a misnomer.

00:21:25.000 What do you mean by that?

00:21:25.000 A misnomer.

00:21:26.000 By that, I mean it's a wrong name.

00:21:29.000 You take a word like justice and you apply it to something that is actually social.

00:21:35.000 We were talking about this early, equity versus equality.

00:21:37.000 It's actually social re-engineering based upon a set or a caste's set of beliefs.

00:21:44.000 So there's a certain educational caste, right?

00:21:46.000 These leaders, and they say, this is how we believe Ibram Kendi X, right?

00:21:51.000 That Harvard Ibram X. Kendi, right?

00:21:54.000 X. Kendi, right, exactly.

00:21:55.000 He's part of that whole cabal of Robin D'Angelo.

00:21:58.000 That's right. 0.97

00:21:58.000 The race baiters. 0.97

00:21:59.000 So he looks at private property held in the United States and he says, well, you know, 60 to 70% of white people have private property and only 30 to 40% of black people. 0.76

00:22:07.000 So what would be social justice is if you took from the landowners and you gave it to all the people that are renters so there's equal, so there's equality in home ownership.

00:22:17.000 Because there's not equality in home ownership, it proves that there's racism in the system.

00:22:22.000 It's unbelievably shallow and it's more than that.

00:22:24.000 It's unjust.

00:22:25.000 You know, in Matthew 25, Jesus comes and he gives these guys these talents, right?

00:22:30.000 He's like, here's, you get one, you get three, and you get five.

00:22:34.000 And to the cabal right now, they would say, how dare you, God, be unjust?

00:22:39.000 How dare you give this person one and this person five and this person three?

00:22:43.000 God, you're inequitable.

00:22:45.000 Wow.

00:22:45.000 Right?

00:22:46.000 Yes.

00:22:47.000 And God comes to the guy that had his one and buried it and didn't say, bro, so sorry I didn't give you five.

00:22:54.000 You would have done so much better with five.

00:22:57.000 And so I'm going to take you off the hook.

00:22:59.000 He says, no, to you who had the one who had nothing, you're forever in trouble, permanently forever in trouble.

00:23:06.000 And give your one to the five and that he may, you know, work well with what I gave him.

00:23:11.000 And that's the kind of culture we live in.

00:23:13.000 We live in a culture that sees one, three, and five across spectrums of private property, cash ownership.

00:23:19.000 And they say that's unjust.

00:23:21.000 Wrong.

00:23:21.000 That's not unjust.

00:23:23.000 So we were talking about this earlier.

00:23:25.000 When you're born, you're born and you owe people something already immediately.

00:23:31.000 You owe your parents because you now exist.

00:23:33.000 That's why the fifth commandment is honor your father and mother.

00:23:36.000 It's the only commandment with a promise.

00:23:37.000 The only one with a promise.

00:23:39.000 Honor the people that just gave you life.

00:23:41.000 So that you might live prosperous in a nation of which you are in.

00:23:44.000 Totally.

00:23:45.000 And so this is how, check out the symbiosis.

00:23:48.000 You are honoring the people that gave you life.

00:23:50.000 So, God gives you more life.

00:23:53.000 Isn't that great?

00:23:54.000 Yeah, it's amazing.

00:23:55.000 Honor the like.

00:23:56.000 And it's the only commandment that is applied to a nation.

00:23:58.000 That's right.

00:23:59.000 Because if you stop honoring your parents, like Mao and Joseph Stalin did, you break the chain of a nation.

00:24:04.000 Yeah.

00:24:04.000 Which is what's happening in America.

00:24:06.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:06.000 And we're disintegrating the family structure.

00:24:09.000 We're saying mother and father are not even important.

00:24:12.000 We're saying, why not have three fathers and we don't even need a mother?

00:24:15.000 Like that.

00:24:16.000 That's a thing now in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

00:24:18.000 Just for everyone listening, it's legal for three fathers to get married and have a child in Harvard, right near Harvard, Cambridge, Massachusetts.

00:24:26.000 Look it up.

00:24:26.000 Yeah.

00:24:27.000 And you know what's funny about the Trinity is you have three distinct entities that are separate in position and unified in relationship.

00:24:37.000 And that makes like you think about a chord, a triad that has three different parts, like right, a C, an E, and a G, and it makes this beautiful sound.

00:24:46.000 If it's all the C note, it doesn't sound good.

00:24:48.000 It sounds monotonous and gross.

00:24:50.000 And God made man and woman to be distinctly different.

00:24:54.000 So when they're unified, it's this beautiful thing.

00:24:56.000 Not that we're all the same, not that we're fungible units.

00:24:59.000 And out of our difference comes new life.

00:25:04.000 So justice, you're writing a book on it.

00:25:07.000 Yeah.

00:25:08.000 Why do we have such a hard time with this word?

00:25:12.000 Yeah, I think we have a hard time with it because it's really hard to execute justice.

00:25:17.000 It's scary, it's dangerous, and it takes a lot to actually.

00:25:20.000 Why is it scary and dangerous?

00:25:22.000 Because you're well, if we look at the Old Testament, God says, here's the set of rules, right?

00:25:27.000 And then if people break these rules, this is the punishment that you have to give them.

00:25:32.000 When justice is not done, what the people deserve does not take place.

00:25:38.000 So let's take our criminal justice society for instance.

00:25:42.000 We have these mass institutions where thousands and thousands and thousands of mostly fathers, right, mostly adult men are incarcerated for mostly their life.

00:25:52.000 Do you know in the Hebrew system of law, there were no prisons?

00:25:55.000 Do you know if you search the Hebrew scriptures, there aren't any prisons.

00:25:59.000 They don't have prisons in God's order.

00:26:02.000 If you steal, then you give back. 0.72

00:26:04.000 If you punch somebody in the face, you get punched in the face.

00:26:08.000 You received, remember, justice is receiving what is owed to you.

00:26:13.000 So if, you know, if you do something wrong, that wrong is either done or you replace the wrong with right because you've taken something.

00:26:20.000 And so when justice doesn't take place, and we just say, well, we're just going to throw you in a cage and throw you in a cage and throw you in a cage and throw you in a cage.

00:26:26.000 We have whole societies that are fatherless, right?

00:26:30.000 And then justice doesn't happen more.

00:26:32.000 It perpetuates a cycle of chaos and violence and communities without order and structure.

00:26:38.000 So at the beginning of this piece I'm writing, I said, father kills, mother nourishes and father kills.

00:26:44.000 Father brings order, the sword.

00:26:47.000 You know, he says, these are the lines you're not allowed to cross.

00:26:50.000 And he also protects his family from things that would harm it.

00:26:54.000 And on the contrast, you have this mother who nourishes, who gives life, who's the lifebringer, who's incredibly valuable.

00:27:02.000 And our culture doesn't believe in the value of women anymore.

00:27:05.000 They tell women they're only valuable if they look and act like men and behave like men and are CEOs of the cog factory.

00:27:12.000 But in God's system, value comes from our distinct roles.

00:27:15.000 And when we don't have father, when father stops being revered, honor your father and mother, we lose justice in a society.

00:27:22.000 We lose the sword, we lose execution of justice, and we take all of those concepts and make them derogatory.

00:27:29.000 And then society begins to corrupt from the inside and we don't have appropriate execution of crime.

00:27:35.000 So do you believe that the founders' view of justice was a profound one or what was it rooted in this kind of biblical view of justice?

00:27:43.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:27:44.000 The founders believed in freedom, right, from tyranny, and they believed in freedom to contract, and that inside of those systems, the actual community would execute justice on an individual that was acting out of accordance or congruence with the community.

00:28:00.000 The other thing about the fathers, founding fathers, is the local churches were so strong that you would be disciplined because you would be a part of a church community.

00:28:08.000 You may be kicked out of not only the church, but really relationship with the whole community for not acting in accordance with basic scriptural integrity, like holding fast to the vows of marriage that you made before the whole world.

00:28:21.000 That's a crazy thing.

00:28:23.000 I did a wedding recently, and people don't even know what a wedding is anymore.

00:28:27.000 It's, I'm making the most important promise, and you're about to do this, Charlie, with Erica, in my life.

00:28:34.000 And the reason it's, I'm going to show you how important it is.

00:28:37.000 We're going to dress in the best possible clothes.

00:28:39.000 We're going to exchange jewelry, these incredible gifts to each other.

00:28:43.000 We're going to have our favorite people, our parents, the people that are super important.

00:28:46.000 There's going to be a guy representing God, and we're even going to have a symbol from the state.

00:28:51.000 And in the church.

00:28:52.000 It's going to be in the church.

00:28:54.000 It's all of the most sacred things at the same time signifying that this vow is the most important possible thing that I could ever do.

00:29:04.000 And because we don't even know that anymore, we don't know what that means anymore.

00:29:07.000 We throw the whole thing out.

00:29:08.000 You can just like, I made a promise.

00:29:09.000 I can break the promise.

00:29:10.000 No big deal.

00:29:11.000 You made a vow in front of everyone that's important to you.

00:29:15.000 And now you're throwing it in the trash.

00:29:17.000 Isn't that incredible?

00:29:18.000 Like, that's how important that was that marriage is supposed to be.

00:29:22.000 And it's the foundation of our societies.

00:29:25.000 So our inability to communicate justice, I think, is one of the biggest problems we're facing right now.

00:29:32.000 And we're so long past the time of churches or communities actually being a check or a balance against people.

00:29:41.000 We're so past that.

00:29:43.000 The state is so heavily involved.

00:29:45.000 And so the only thing that could possibly happen is the church rising and being a moral check on the nation.

00:29:50.000 Yeah.

00:29:50.000 The church is the hope of the world.

00:29:52.000 And it's the hope, it's the hope of the world.

00:29:54.000 There is no legislation that, you know, Biden's going to pass.

00:29:58.000 There's no legislation that second term Trump's going to pass.

00:30:01.000 There's no legislation that, you know, whoever your favorite politician is going to get up there and pass that's going to fix the soul of the nation, right?

00:30:09.000 Who is it?

00:30:09.000 Was it Franklin that said, you know, when the culture becomes more tyrannical or becomes more corrupted, it necessitates the need of more masters to dominate, which is more and more law, more and more regulation.

00:30:24.000 That doesn't fix the heart.

00:30:25.000 It slows down the corruption, hopefully, hopefully. 0.74

00:30:29.000 But the heart is an internal and personal issue that is dependent upon only the individual, which is why the CRT stuff, which is why the BLM stuff, which is why blaming people seven generations doesn't work. 0.75

00:30:41.000 Because we can't fix society unless we fix our own hearts, which is what Jesus said. 0.88

00:30:45.000 Why are you pointing at the speck in your neighbor's eye?

00:30:47.000 The real issue is the giant beam in your own eye, right?

00:30:51.000 The giant log.

00:30:52.000 And that's something like there's a beam in your eye.

00:30:55.000 That's something structural.

00:30:56.000 That's something you build with.

00:30:57.000 That's something that your life is built with that you think is A-OK.

00:31:02.000 And it's not.

00:31:02.000 It needs to be torn down.

00:31:04.000 So many churches are going woke.

00:31:08.000 In fact, it seems as if that's the new normal.

00:31:12.000 And very few pastors are speaking out against it because I don't think they know how or they lack the courage.

00:31:17.000 Yeah.

00:31:17.000 You've spoken out against it.

00:31:19.000 So we talked, we spoke last June or July.

00:31:22.000 Has it gotten better or worse since last summer?

00:31:24.000 I think it's gotten much worse.

00:31:25.000 I think it's better.

00:31:26.000 Really?

00:31:26.000 I think the woke news is spreading like a virus throughout churches that are trying to get people into their doors.

00:31:34.000 The church was never meant to be a mousetrap for the unbeliever. 0.99

00:31:39.000 And that's what it's become, right? 1.00

00:31:40.000 So it's like lasers, and I'm cool.

00:31:42.000 I love lasers.

00:31:43.000 I love lasers, but lasers, smoke, all this stuff is a mousetrap to get unsaved people in to say a prayer, and they think that's a conversion experience.

00:31:51.000 And it's just, first of all, it's not a conversion experience.

00:31:54.000 Is it a conversion experience?

00:31:55.000 That's between God and you.

00:31:57.000 It's not one prayer that you pray.

00:31:58.000 You know, you have a heart change before God.

00:32:01.000 That's a conversion experience.

00:32:03.000 Anyway, but the point is, the church has stopped doing what the apostles said, which is to rebuke, reprove, and exhort.

00:32:11.000 It says, Paul says to Timothy, look, Timothy, I'm telling you to do these things before Christ Jesus, the judge.

00:32:18.000 He's insinuating, you will be judged one day, Timothy.

00:32:21.000 This is your job.

00:32:22.000 Reprove, rebuke, resort, exhort.

00:32:24.000 And most of our churches in America, most of the big ones, don't rebuke.

00:32:28.000 They don't reprove.

00:32:29.000 They only exhort.

00:32:30.000 Only tell you how great you're doing, pump you up, get you going.

00:32:34.000 And then let's get your friends in.

00:32:35.000 We're going to have like a giveaway slurpy Sunday.

00:32:38.000 It's going to be so fun.

00:32:39.000 And that's just failed.

00:32:40.000 That's failed.

00:32:41.000 And we have, this is so crazy.

00:32:43.000 In the last nine months, 90% of the churches have been shut down and America hasn't blinked.

00:32:49.000 That shows how little power that the churches have over this culture because they haven't been speaking truth.

00:32:57.000 If their liquor store is closed, riots.

00:33:00.000 Riots in the streets.

00:33:02.000 Yes.

00:33:02.000 For sure.

00:33:02.000 If the abortion factory is closed.

00:33:04.000 Riots in the streets.

00:33:05.000 Exactly.

00:33:06.000 The churches did close, the vast majority of them, and most people did nothing.

00:33:12.000 They approved of it.

00:33:13.000 Exactly.

00:33:14.000 In fact, certain pastors wrote in favor of it.

00:33:16.000 Yep.

00:33:17.000 Yeah, I've had kickback in my community from guys because I'm like, we're open.

00:33:22.000 We're doing it.

00:33:22.000 Good for you.

00:33:23.000 We're preaching the gospel.

00:33:25.000 We're saying the hard stuff.

00:33:26.000 And people are like, how dare you be, you know, treat people's lives like this.

00:33:31.000 And, you know, the truth is their lives are way more in trouble because of sin than because of.

00:33:37.000 But it's also a false accusation.

00:33:39.000 It'd be one thing if I'd say, you know what, we're going to do as a church?

00:33:41.000 We're going to go knock on doors and breathe in people's mouths at old folks' homes. 0.99

00:33:45.000 Yeah, you're opening up the door so people can voluntarily. 0.95

00:33:48.000 So this is what liberty is: the capacity to seek virtue.

00:33:53.000 So you have the religious liberty.

00:33:55.000 This is a false definition of liberty we have.

00:33:58.000 If I ask a random person, what's liberty?

00:34:00.000 The ability to go smoke weed or do whatever it is.

00:34:02.000 Right.

00:34:03.000 No, actually, liberty is you pursuing virtue, absent the government getting in the way of you being able to become virtuous.

00:34:10.000 That's what liberty is.

00:34:11.000 Well, our founders' concept of liberty wasn't whether I could get hammered or not.

00:34:16.000 It was that government coercion wouldn't stop me from exercising my rights to be a good citizen.

00:34:20.000 That's exactly right.

00:34:21.000 It wasn't like John Smith.

00:34:23.000 It was actually the government who has the sword, who has the ability to stop us.

00:34:29.000 And yeah, I think it's really good.

00:34:33.000 I know it sounds crazy to say that when 90% of the church is shut down and nobody cares, it's a good thing.

00:34:38.000 I think it's a really good thing.

00:34:39.000 It's a refiner's fire.

00:34:40.000 Absolutely.

00:34:40.000 And to close a point on that, Madison and Washington, when they convened the Constitutional Convention, and these were prayerful Christian men.

00:34:46.000 Don't let anyone tell you any different.

00:34:48.000 They were deliberating about the Ninth Amendment, which I think is one of my favorite amendments.

00:34:52.000 And no one ever talks about the Ninth Amendment.

00:34:54.000 I don't even know what it is.

00:34:55.000 That's okay.

00:34:56.000 And I'm a lawyer.

00:34:57.000 For good reason.

00:34:58.000 Because no one talks.

00:34:59.000 It's actually never been used in any decision ever.

00:35:02.000 Once, and it was not even used correctly.

00:35:04.000 I'll tell you what it is in a sec.

00:35:05.000 So Bork said it was a stain blot on the U.S. Constitution.

00:35:10.000 Because at its first reading, it's just kind of a weird amendment.

00:35:13.000 It says, not every right that's out there is in this document.

00:35:20.000 That's a really kind of weird thing, right?

00:35:22.000 It was basically kind of like you read it.

00:35:23.000 You're like, okay, obviously.

00:35:25.000 But no, it's really interesting because the founders were fighting over this.

00:35:30.000 And Madison was getting heat from the religious folks.

00:35:32.000 And they said, we have a right to prayer.

00:35:35.000 We have a right to contact our creator.

00:35:38.000 And Madison's like, yeah, but that's articulated in the First Amendment.

00:35:41.000 They said, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:42.000 But you have to make an amendment to make sure that it's known that this is not an exhaustive list because we have a right to our sacraments.

00:35:49.000 It's great.

00:35:49.000 It's brilliant, right?

00:35:50.000 It's great.

00:35:51.000 It's so true.

00:35:51.000 And so then Washington Madison had this as a big, like, okay, we'll put the Ninth Amendment in.

00:35:55.000 So everyone knows that there's other rights that are not clearly defined here.

00:36:00.000 But guess what?

00:36:00.000 What it says is that therefore, if the government can't take those rights away unless there's an act that puts it forward.

00:36:06.000 For example, your right to worship.

00:36:09.000 Now, that's in the Constitution, right?

00:36:10.000 That's religious, free expression clause, and the right, the free expression clause and the establishment clause.

00:36:16.000 But the point is that natural rights and how we are made in God's image is such a difference that we have this recognition in our country versus any other.

00:36:28.000 And so, anyway, I can't remember how he got on the Ninth Amendment issue.

00:36:30.000 There was something.

00:36:31.000 Well, this reminded me of this reminding me of something that that point of the Ninth Amendment is talking about the Ninth Amendment.

00:36:37.000 I like it.

00:36:38.000 There are things that are not mentioned that are still vitally important.

00:36:41.000 And it's like that debate that's like, well, Jesus didn't talk about abortion, so therefore it's totally fine.

00:36:47.000 And you're like, well, yeah, my friend Gabe Finocchio said he also didn't talk about beating people in the head with the attack hammer.

00:36:55.000 Therefore, we don't say that's also fine.

00:36:58.000 He does these memes on Instagram.

00:37:00.000 Yeah.

00:37:00.000 And you sent them to me.

00:37:01.000 I don't laugh out loud.

00:37:02.000 I laughed out loud for like an hour.

00:37:04.000 They're so good.

00:37:06.000 No, they're actually beautiful.

00:37:08.000 Turning point USA coffee table book with woke Jesus Christ.

00:37:11.000 Woke Jesus.

00:37:11.000 No, he should actually publish a picture book called Woke Jesus.

00:37:15.000 It would do so well.

00:37:16.000 And it's good because it's sarcastic.

00:37:18.000 So he's making fun of what the Timothy Keller and the John Piper people are doing and the Andy Stanleys.

00:37:24.000 And it's these pictures of Jesus, like the old ones you'd see in some Methodist or Lutheran or Presbyterian Catholic church, right?

00:37:30.000 From the late 1800s, early 1900s, of Jesus with his hands up in front of a flock of people.

00:37:30.000 Yeah.

00:37:35.000 And he says, Hear ye, disciples, that if you are not liked by everyone, you're doing something wrong.

00:37:41.000 Like something so ridiculously sarcastic that the church actually believes now.

00:37:45.000 And it's so frustrating.

00:37:46.000 And it says, woke Jesus. 0.69

00:37:47.000 It's like, it's so good.

00:37:48.000 You're like, we're actually doing that.

00:37:50.000 That's the incredible part.

00:37:51.000 You're like, oh, wait, we did substitute truth for popularity.

00:37:55.000 And that's the beauty of, that's the beauty of a parable.

00:37:58.000 Because a parable is this tale that stings you, but it kind of comes around the side because most people are too arrogant.

00:38:04.000 Like if you tell somebody to their face what they're doing wrong, most people are so arrogant they cannot hear it.

00:38:09.000 Yes.

00:38:09.000 But a parable can sneak in.

00:38:11.000 A story can get in and start to work inside.

00:38:14.000 Well, the parable uses the common noun miracle, right?

00:38:17.000 So a word has meaning.

00:38:18.000 For example, when you know sheep and you hear wolf, you know what the archetype it represents, right?

00:38:23.000 That's the common noun miracle.

00:38:25.000 And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

00:38:27.000 So the church is at a very interesting point right now.

00:38:30.000 And Rob McCoy and Joe Pettick and Juergen and Greg Denham, the Barnett family, Steve Smotherman.

00:38:37.000 I mentioned them by name because they deserve to be mentioned because they're courageous.

00:38:39.000 And this is not an exhaustive list.

00:38:41.000 Some pastors are starting to speak out.

00:38:43.000 Your church is flourishing.

00:38:44.000 Yeah, we are.

00:38:45.000 It's been amazing.

00:38:46.000 And it's a funny thing because most guys, I know the fear.

00:38:49.000 The fear is like, it's all going to be over.

00:38:51.000 It's going to crash.

00:38:52.000 This isn't going to work.

00:38:53.000 We're standing up against, you know, and people just want to do church and be left alone. 0.99

00:38:58.000 And I talked to you about this last summer, Charlie, but, you know, when we had this kind of Black Lives Matter explosion, I just had a snapping point. 0.89

00:39:05.000 And I said, I don't care what anyone thinks ever again. 0.97

00:39:08.000 I'm just going to preach the truth of the gospel.

00:39:10.000 In New York City.

00:39:11.000 In New York City, and I'm not going to pull any punches at all.

00:39:14.000 And when I'm preparing my message and I feel like I should pull a punch on any cultural issue, I actually double down on it to fight against that oppression.

00:39:22.000 That's in a place like New York City.

00:39:23.000 That's like, no, you will submit.

00:39:24.000 No, you will not challenge me.

00:39:25.000 You will wave the flag.

00:39:29.000 It's almost they're using a religious story of the Passover against us. 0.61

00:39:35.000 Where it's like, if you do not have the BLM flag outside your church, we're going to take your firstborn. 0.57

00:39:40.000 Exactly. 0.86

00:39:40.000 Yeah, exactly right. 0.86

00:39:41.000 It's like if you do not have the LGBT flag, you're a bad person, and we're going to send the investigators after you.

00:39:46.000 Yeah, this Kendi had this, he's got this whole case.

00:39:51.000 Did you read his amendment to the Constitution that he wants to know?

00:39:54.000 But I've been reading this guy for years.

00:39:56.000 Please enlighten me.

00:39:59.000 He says we're going to have this amendment, and in the amendment, we're going to say that racism, in their definition, which is ubiquitous, right?

00:40:05.000 And you can't find it.

00:40:06.000 It's in the air.

00:40:06.000 It's in the sky.

00:40:09.000 will be established in the Constitution and then you will be forced to do something about it.

00:40:15.000 And if you don't, there'll be a department created, the Department of Action, whatever, stopping racism, Department of Anti-Racism.

00:40:25.000 And we're going to come after you if you're not actively pursuing anti-racism.

00:40:32.000 And I just couldn't help but think of the Department of Truth from 1984.

00:40:36.000 Well, I want to get into this.

00:40:38.000 And so two thoughts.

00:40:40.000 First of all, he doesn't even understand what an amendment is.

00:40:42.000 Absent an amendment targeted for Congress.

00:40:46.000 I could be wrong here, but I don't think I am because this is actually philosophical consistent.

00:40:49.000 The amendments, at least the Bill of Rights, are not mandates for citizens.

00:40:53.000 They're rules for government.

00:40:54.000 There are limitations on the federal government.

00:40:54.000 Big difference.

00:40:56.000 They're not like the citizen shall now eat.

00:40:58.000 No, no, no, no.

00:40:59.000 It's the government shall not.

00:41:01.000 We have determined by the Constitution that racism is everywhere.

00:41:05.000 Like, you can't do that.

00:41:06.000 No, that in some sort of strange French Revolution document.

00:41:10.000 Yeah, truly.

00:41:12.000 And the founders are so brilliant because it was written for people like Ibram X. Kendi, whatever his name is.

00:41:17.000 So you mentioned 1984.

00:41:20.000 I think we're already living it.

00:41:21.000 Yeah, we are.

00:41:22.000 And there's a different book, though, that I think is better summarizing where we're heading.

00:41:28.000 And that's Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.

00:41:32.000 You're probably familiar with it.

00:41:33.000 Yeah, approximately.

00:41:34.000 I'm more familiar with 84.

00:41:35.000 You tell me what well, the short summary is it's this idea, and he was really into psychedelics and all this, but not exactly one of my favorite writers.

00:41:45.000 But he was right about this where people are going to sacrifice freedom for pleasure.

00:41:49.000 And he went through technology.

00:41:51.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:41:51.000 Through technology.

00:41:52.000 And insofar that people are just going to sit at home, put on their glasses, transport to a different portal.

00:41:52.000 That's right.

00:41:59.000 Yeah.

00:41:59.000 Insofar they can just keep on getting the next dopamine rush.

00:42:02.000 And now you have today, Mark Zuckerberg comes out at the new Facebook shareholder.

00:42:02.000 Incredible.

00:42:07.000 You see this new shareholder meeting, and he has these glasses.

00:42:11.000 And he says, these glasses will transport you to a new world.

00:42:15.000 Wow.

00:42:15.000 And you'll never have to leave your home.

00:42:17.000 Wow.

00:42:18.000 Incredible.

00:42:18.000 Again.

00:42:19.000 Where is this headed, David?

00:42:20.000 Living in a stimulant fiction.

00:42:22.000 You know, somebody said to me one time, he said, people think of the mark of the beast, 666, and the world, chaos, chaos, chaos, you know, government takeover, shooting Christians in the street.

00:42:33.000 He said, 666 is man at its height of perfection, absent God.

00:42:39.000 So you take man and all its best technology and all his best ideas, absent God, throw God away, and that's what you have.

00:42:46.000 It's the ubermensch.

00:42:46.000 That's the ubermensch.

00:42:48.000 It's the glasses on where I'm in, it doesn't matter.

00:42:51.000 I'm at the height of technology.

00:42:53.000 I'm having the height of experience, even though my real life is a total disaster and stands against the world.

00:42:58.000 And it's a complete mirage.

00:42:59.000 It's false.

00:43:00.000 It's a dream.

00:43:01.000 It's an illusion.

00:43:02.000 It's the serpent in the garden telling you: if you eat this apple, you'll have all of your wildest dreams fulfilled.

00:43:09.000 Put on the glasses, have all of your wildest dreams fulfilled, and atrophy in your actual body and atrophy in your eternal body.

00:43:16.000 Yeah, your spirit will atrophy.

00:43:18.000 Yes.

00:43:18.000 So that's what they're releasing.

00:43:20.000 And so I encourage everyone listening.

00:43:22.000 I don't actually wouldn't encourage young people to read Brave New World unless you really know what you're doing.

00:43:27.000 Yeah, no, but it's a dangerous book if you're like 10 or 11.

00:43:30.000 It's very graphic at times.

00:43:32.000 But for parents, you have to be aware of this because this is the new cycle.

00:43:36.000 If you really look at it, one of the things that the Bible talks about is delayed gratification.

00:43:40.000 It's a biblical principle.

00:43:41.000 It's how we built Western civilization.

00:43:43.000 I'm going to work hard today so I can have a little bit more tomorrow.

00:43:46.000 Sacrifice.

00:43:47.000 Really simple, right?

00:43:48.000 Yep.

00:43:49.000 Simple principle.

00:43:50.000 But now the cycle is no immediate pleasure.

00:43:54.000 Yeah.

00:43:55.000 Right.

00:43:55.000 Immediate dopamine rush.

00:43:56.000 Immediate dopamine rush.

00:43:57.000 As soon as you put the thing on your head.

00:43:58.000 That's right.

00:43:59.000 The thing on my head, the substance in my body.

00:44:02.000 And so what is sometimes described as a political issue is actually a spiritual issue, and I'll prove it to you.

00:44:09.000 A nation that's regularly attending church, a nation that understands the biblical value of work would be repulsed by everyone getting a stimulus check just because a politician's offering it.

00:44:22.000 From who, though?

00:44:23.000 Like, nobody's even asking that.

00:44:25.000 But it's mortgaged from the fiat currency.

00:44:28.000 You mean from who?

00:44:28.000 From your children, from tax, whatever.

00:44:30.000 Or from inflation.

00:44:32.000 From inflation.

00:44:33.000 But even if it was paid for, right?

00:44:34.000 Even if it was paid for, and it was like, you know, we're balanced the budget.

00:44:37.000 We're just going to give everyone something.

00:44:39.000 That's a pleasure kick.

00:44:41.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:44:41.000 I mean, don't kill yourself.

00:44:44.000 Again, I... 0.75

00:44:45.000 Bread and carnival from the Romans in another package.

00:44:47.000 When you saw that stimulus check come into your Wells Fargo or your Chase Bank account, you're listed this.

00:44:53.000 You know, this is true.

00:44:54.000 Yeah.

00:44:54.000 You got a little dopamine rush.

00:44:56.000 You got a little bit of power.

00:44:57.000 How people have Bitcoin because our currency is going to inflate.

00:45:01.000 Yeah, well, of course it is.

00:45:02.000 35% of all U.S. dollars ever created having been created in the last year.

00:45:06.000 35%.

00:45:07.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:08.000 We went from $22 million in our circulation.

00:45:10.000 Trillion.

00:45:10.000 $22 million.

00:45:11.000 Sorry, Yellows.

00:45:13.000 We have $22 million.

00:45:14.000 We got a lot of dollars.

00:45:15.000 I'm rich.

00:45:16.000 I was going to say, we have a lot more purchasing power than I might have.

00:45:19.000 $22 trillion.

00:45:20.000 And we added an additional $7 trillion in the last two years.

00:45:23.000 That we know of, yeah.

00:45:24.000 That's our last one.

00:45:25.000 Not to mention the release of the interest rates.

00:45:27.000 And by the way, that's just an economic example of a spiritual problem, which is that if people were somewhat correctly rooted or oriented, they'd be repulsed by it.

00:45:38.000 I'm not saying people don't need it.

00:45:39.000 That's not what I'm saying.

00:45:40.000 That is not the argument.

00:45:42.000 It's a lot of things people need, by the way.

00:45:44.000 It's a question of how does it delivered to you, if at all, right?

00:45:48.000 Yeah.

00:45:49.000 Well, and then you go into the purpose of a government, right?

00:45:52.000 What's the purpose of a government?

00:45:53.000 Is the purpose of a government to provide your needs?

00:45:55.000 And where do we decide what the purpose of a government is?

00:45:58.000 In my humble opinion, you look to scripture.

00:46:00.000 Yes.

00:46:00.000 And you say, what is the form that God gave?

00:46:03.000 And how can we, as close as possible, that's exactly what they did.

00:46:07.000 They said, oh, it looks like in the book of Judges, it looks like there was very, very limited government.

00:46:13.000 There was a set of law that you had to obey.

00:46:15.000 But as far as governance, the judges only functioned when there was a military incident or when there was a civil action that made its way up, just like an appellate court, all the way up to the top judges.

00:46:26.000 But everyone knew the law.

00:46:27.000 Everyone knew the law.

00:46:28.000 Exactly.

00:46:29.000 And if you didn't obey the law, then the community would execute judgment upon you.

00:46:34.000 And this is the other thing that drives me crazy.

00:46:36.000 Like when someone gets punished in our society, they go off to some faraway place.

00:46:41.000 It is like 1984.

00:46:42.000 They get picked up in the van and you never see the punishment.

00:46:45.000 Punishment is not a part of our cultural life.

00:46:48.000 We've destroyed punishment.

00:46:49.000 We've destroyed punishment. 1.00

00:46:51.000 We get a brat society. 1.00

00:46:52.000 And brats.

00:46:53.000 Well, it's even worse. 0.83

00:46:54.000 It's the people that do deserve more punishment get very little of it.

00:46:58.000 The people that don't deserve it get locked away forever.

00:47:02.000 And if you are of the wrong political stripe, you are going to have the full weight of the government coming after you.

00:47:08.000 Absolutely.

00:47:08.000 Yeah, and that's terrifying.

00:47:10.000 And you have people that are out on weapons charges, rape, arson, first-degree murder for cash bail.

00:47:18.000 And so the church needs to rise up.

00:47:21.000 How's that going to happen?

00:47:22.000 Well, the church needs to rise up in a couple of ways.

00:47:24.000 The first way that it is always the same way every time is personal repentance.

00:47:29.000 Like the church doesn't first rise up by fixing the culture.

00:47:32.000 The church first rises up by me repenting that I'm not seeking the peace of the city, that I'm not living in God's way, that I am living only for my own dopamine rush, that I am seeking my own pleasure at all times.

00:47:45.000 I need to repent of that first, and then God can direct me in righteousness to be a change unit in my community and culture and all those other things.

00:47:54.000 So, every person first needs to repent themselves.

00:47:57.000 Exactly.

00:47:58.000 Exactly.

00:47:58.000 And God said that.

00:47:59.000 He said, if you come to me and you repent, I will heal the land.

00:48:03.000 I'll remove the curse.

00:48:04.000 Like, I'll change what's happening in your country.

00:48:07.000 The country is never ever too far away from the blessing of God if we are willing to repent.

00:48:12.000 What gives you hope?

00:48:14.000 What gives me hope is the change and language that I'm seeing through the shaking that's happening in America.

00:48:20.000 People are realizing.

00:48:21.000 I talked to a pastor in my city of a church, of a multi-thousand person church, and he said, David, I realized what we were doing.

00:48:26.000 He essentially said, David, I realized what we were doing was not right.

00:48:29.000 We were only trying to get salvation and grow the church.

00:48:32.000 And now, through he said this, he said, through the last six months, I've seen people totally leave not just my church, but relationship with God at all.

00:48:40.000 And I realized we weren't doing it right structurally.

00:48:43.000 So they were doing converts, not disciples.

00:48:45.000 Yeah, there's no change.

00:48:46.000 There's no real change.

00:48:47.000 There's say the prayer, you get the ticket to heaven.

00:48:49.000 And people are like, great.

00:48:50.000 Well, then I can sleep around.

00:48:52.000 I can get hammered.

00:48:52.000 I can steal from my boss.

00:48:54.000 Nobody's telling me to show up to work on time or be a good husband or sacrifice.

00:48:58.000 And I think there's, I think the eyes are opening and people are saying, no, we have to actually get people to repent, change.

00:49:07.000 That's that word means that people freak out about the word repentance.

00:49:10.000 It does mean to turn.

00:49:12.000 That's the Greek word.

00:49:13.000 Metamorphy or something.

00:49:14.000 Metamorphize.

00:49:15.000 Metamorphosis is part of that root.

00:49:18.000 I could have the wrong Greek. 1.00

00:49:19.000 I think I'm right though. 0.93

00:49:20.000 And that you are actually, you are actually turning away from your way and saying, God, you know what?

00:49:25.000 I'm going to follow your way now.

00:49:27.000 And if we do that, it's funny.

00:49:28.000 It's funny because God doesn't say, and then you'll go out and fix like the presidency.

00:49:34.000 He says, I will bless your nation if you do that.

00:49:38.000 He'll, by his sovereign will, he'll work through us.

00:49:40.000 He could end this ball game in a second.

00:49:42.000 Yeah.

00:49:43.000 And that's why, like, right now, the curse of God is upon our nation.

00:49:46.000 I don't mean that in some kind of horrible, gross way.

00:49:48.000 I mean that we have corruption, sin, chaos, debauchery, debauchery, wicked leadership, people doing gender mutilation to children, trying to pass it in Congress. 0.95

00:49:59.000 It's insane.

00:50:00.000 And justifying it in the Republican Party in Arkansas.

00:50:03.000 Yeah, that I saw that.

00:50:04.000 The chemical castration.

00:50:05.000 I saw that.

00:50:06.000 It was a Tucker interview and it's shocking.

00:50:08.000 It's shocking.

00:50:09.000 Yes.

00:50:10.000 And Tucker's saying, well, they can't even drink.

00:50:13.000 They can't, they can't.

00:50:14.000 And he's like, oh, I want the freedom.

00:50:15.000 I'm like, you don't know what freedom is.

00:50:16.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:50:17.000 That's the freedom we were talking about.

00:50:18.000 He's like, oh, I want limited government.

00:50:20.000 I'm sorry, what?

00:50:21.000 Yeah, right.

00:50:21.000 If government's good for anything, it should be prevent the chemical castration of a seven-year-old.

00:50:27.000 That's right.

00:50:27.000 It should protect the vulnerable from the role of the sovereign.

00:50:32.000 That's right.

00:50:32.000 Exactly.

00:50:32.000 That's the most fundamental role.

00:50:34.000 Yes.

00:50:35.000 And we've thrown that out.

00:50:35.000 We've said that, no, the role is you get health care, you get free education.

00:50:39.000 You're like, no, can we just please protect the innocent?

00:50:42.000 And if you're a trillionaire, you can do whatever you want.

00:50:44.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:50:45.000 And you're all scot-free.

00:50:46.000 That's right.

00:50:47.000 So I think if we would, if people would repent and say, okay, God is perfectly just, I will get what I'm due one day.

00:50:55.000 And that's not a great thing because I've done a bunch of chaotic things that are not good.

00:51:00.000 I've sowed a lot of seeds of chaos.

00:51:02.000 So I must personally repent.

00:51:04.000 And if I repent, God will bring his blessing upon my life.

00:51:08.000 That's how, that's, that's the formula.

00:51:10.000 And so that's something, I mean, I've been so in attractional churches, Charlie.

00:51:15.000 Like I, I was like preaching like happy Jesus messages for years.

00:51:19.000 I'm saying I actually have to preach repentance.

00:51:21.000 I have to start walking into the dark room of bringing the sword upon self and saying, Lord, will you let your word cut me?

00:51:30.000 The word is sharper than any two-edged sword, divides between soul and spirit, the thoughts and intents of the heart, that it shows me my dark intent, that it shows me my, you know, malicious ways.

00:51:41.000 And I'm like, man, that's horrible.

00:51:42.000 It's how Paul could say, I'm the chief of all sinners.

00:51:46.000 And that causes repentance to happen.

00:51:48.000 And then we walk in righteousness.

00:51:49.000 The blessing of God comes.

00:51:50.000 Our nation changes.

00:51:51.000 Jonathan Edwards, sinners in the hands of an angry God.

00:51:54.000 Yeah.

00:51:54.000 Right.

00:51:54.000 A repenting nation becomes a liberty-seeking nation.

00:51:57.000 And a blessed nation.

00:51:58.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:51:59.000 And every revival has repentance at its core.

00:52:02.000 Always.

00:52:03.000 And so Billy Graham, when he came onto the scene, first of all, he was an ardent anti-communist.

00:52:08.000 I'm a big Billy Graham fan.

00:52:09.000 I love everything about him.

00:52:10.000 And I know the Graham family well.

00:52:12.000 Sissy's terrific.

00:52:14.000 And he was big on repentance, big time.

00:52:17.000 And you listen to him, you'd always say, The Bible says that you must face your creator and repent.

00:52:23.000 And then, once once that cycle is underway, then all of a sudden things can start to move.

00:52:30.000 Bonhoeffer said, he said, if we tell our audience who Dietrich Bonhoeffer is.

00:52:34.000 Yeah, Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a guy in 1940s, Germany, who's a brilliant theologian.

00:52:39.000 He actually came and studied in New York City while the George Washington Bridge was being built and stayed at a couple of churches.

00:52:45.000 I didn't know that.

00:52:46.000 Yeah, he obviously Eric Metaxa's book on Bonhoeffer is one of the best-selling books.

00:52:52.000 Absolute classic.

00:52:53.000 And he's got this concept called cheap grace.

00:52:55.000 And Bonhoeffer basically says, like, you can't say you believe something and then not live it.

00:53:02.000 You're disrespecting, you're shaming the blood of Jesus that was shed for you.

00:53:07.000 And he says, so grace can't be preached cheaply.

00:53:11.000 He said, because if Jesus said that you can't cast your pearls before swine unless they trample them and then turn and trample you.

00:53:19.000 And he says, the same gospel that frees must be the same gospel that binds.

00:53:25.000 So we have to say, look, my sin is an actual issue.

00:53:28.000 Me, 40-year-old pastor, I have sinned.

00:53:30.000 It's an actual issue.

00:53:32.000 And I have to repent of it.

00:53:33.000 And that binds me.

00:53:34.000 And that allows me to live in God's freedom and blessing in my city, my neighborhood, and my nation.

00:53:39.000 And then in a generation, you're going to look at my neighborhood in New York City called the Two Bridges, and you're going to see it flourishing with life, family, righteousness, because we're there calling people to walk in God's goodness.

00:53:51.000 I love that.

00:53:53.000 In closing, is there anything else in specific you really wanted to talk about that you're working on that we didn't cover?

00:53:59.000 Um, we're going to end up on like 17 rabbit trails, you and I. That's what's always so fun.

00:54:06.000 I love it too.

00:54:07.000 No, I am working on this book, Good Kills, and it's important because I want people to call them good kills.

00:54:12.000 Good kills.

00:54:12.000 Yeah, I want to, I want people to understand that God, like in the evangelical world, we sing the song, Good, Good Father, and He is a Good, Good Father.

00:54:20.000 But goodness doesn't only hug, it also kills the enemy at the gate, right?

00:54:25.000 Paul says that when I leave, wolves will arise among you, savage wolves from your own flock, not sparing, not sparing the body.

00:54:35.000 In your own midst, wolves rise up to consume yourself.

00:54:39.000 And good needs to bring a sword at times and stand up against woke theology and CRT and these crazy issues.

00:54:45.000 So that's something I'm developing.

00:54:47.000 You and I will talk about it more in the future.

00:54:48.000 But I want Christians to start thinking about it.

00:54:51.000 Good is not just God giving hugs out.

00:54:53.000 It's about God being perfect and in justice, giving to every man exactly what he's due.

00:54:59.000 It's terrific.

00:55:00.000 David Engelhart, King's Church, NYC, New York City.

00:55:05.000 It's been great.

00:55:06.000 Yes, it's always a pleasure, Charlie.

00:55:08.000 We covered a lot and we had no notes.

00:55:10.000 Yeah.

00:55:10.000 Everyone, check out CharlieKirk.com.

00:55:13.000 Email us your thoughts.

00:55:14.000 Freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:55:16.000 This episode is brought to you, advertise your free for all of you that support us, charliekirk.com/slash support and get involved at TurningPointUSA, tpusa.com.

00:55:25.000 Thanks, David.

00:55:25.000 Thanks, Charlie.

00:55:28.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:55:30.000 Email us your thoughtsfreedom at charliekirk.com.

00:55:33.000 God bless you guys.

00:55:34.000 Talk to you soon.

00:55:38.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 25, 2021

What the Bible Tells Us About "Social Justice" with Pastor David Engelhardt

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