The Charlie Kirk Show - May 30, 2024


What Went Wrong With Libertarianism?

Topics
People's Convention pseudo libertarianism personnel selection Tax Network USA neoconservative influence COVID-19 vaccine debate
Hosted by
Charlie Kirk
Mentioned
Donald Trump Comic Dave Smith George W. Bush Ron Paul Joe Biden Barack Obama Thomas Sewell Jordan Peterson Irving Kristol Bernie Sanders Bobby Kennedy Chase Oliver Mike Lindell Dick Cheney MyPillows Tucker John Quincy Adams Charles Krauthammer Benjamin Netanyahu Victoria Nuland and 40 more
Surviving the Trump Verdict Demoralization Campaign The Trump Trial Aftermath

Episode Stats


Length

50 minutes

Words per minute

180.2

Word count

9,187

Sentence count

623

Harmful content

Toxicity

22

sentences flagged

Hate speech

11

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Dave Smith is a stand-up comedian, father, husband, and host of the Part of the Problem podcast. He is also the founder of Turning Point USA, a youth organization dedicated to fighting for liberty on college campuses across the country. Dave has been a long-time supporter of the Libertarian Party and has been involved in the movement since the early 1980s. He was a keynote speaker at the 1984 Libertarian National Convention, and is a regular contributor to the Ron Paul Institute and the Cato Institute.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.
00:00:00.000 An entire hour with Dave Smith.
00:00:03.000 He's a libertarian.
00:00:04.000 We don't agree on everything, but a very smart and decent man.
00:00:07.000 We talk about the Libertarian Party Convention.
00:00:09.000 We talk about neoconservatism, foreign intervention, and kind of some of the freakish elements of the modern libertarian movement.
00:00:16.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:18.000 Become a member today at members.charlikirk.com.
00:00:21.000 That is members.charlikirk.com.
00:00:23.000 And email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
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00:00:30.000 So start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com.
00:00:34.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:34.000 Here we go.
00:00:35.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:00:37.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:00:39.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:00:42.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:00:46.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:00:47.000 He's an incredible guy.
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00:01:34.000 They are counting on your surrender.
00:01:38.000 If you give up, they win.
00:01:41.000 But what if we look back and we realize we were just inches away from victory and that's when we decided to give up.
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00:02:57.000 Super excited for our guest this hour, very smart and entertaining man and a libertarian.
00:03:03.000 It is Dave Smith, who is a comedian, father, husband, also host of Part of the Problem podcast.
00:03:10.000 And he joins us for this hour.
00:03:11.000 Dave, welcome to the program.
00:03:12.000 Hey, Charlie, thanks for having me.
00:03:14.000 Lots to discuss, Dave.
00:03:15.000 First, introduce yourself, what you do, and your line of work for our audience that might not be aware.
00:03:22.000 Well, I talk a lot.
00:03:24.000 I don't know beyond that.
00:03:27.000 I'm a stand-up comedian and a podcast host and a political commentator and a libertarian.
00:03:34.000 And the husband and dad stuff you mentioned, that's most important.
00:03:37.000 So that's a perfect.
00:03:38.000 So to our audience who thinks they know what a libertarian is for good or for bad or for worse, in your words, Dave Smith, what is a libertarian?
00:03:47.000 Well, you know, look, there are different camps of libertarians and some of them who I see things very different from.
00:03:52.000 I'm a libertarian in the Ron Paul school.
00:03:56.000 So people who believe in non-interventionism, limited government, sound money, and individual liberty.
00:04:04.000 So explain then what how the other factions of like American libertarianism, and I'm not, you know, asking, I kind of sort of get it.
00:04:14.000 And this was highlighted at the convention this last weekend.
00:04:17.000 And I'm going to apply some of your remarks that I thought was excellent, by the way.
00:04:20.000 You were one of the more mature people.
00:04:21.000 You were one of the more mature people in the room, honestly.
00:04:23.000 And by the way, just to be perfectly clear, I'm super in harmony on the non-interventionism stuff and a lot of it, not everything.
00:04:29.000 And we'll talk about that.
00:04:30.000 But like, what are the other camps of libertarianism and where do they come from?
00:04:34.000 Well, there's camps of libertarianism that comes from more of like the Cato school, as I would call them, where Cato is a DC think tank that's supposedly libertarian.
00:04:50.000 Those groups are much more likely to support things like open borders, which I reject as not the correct libertarian position and also just an insane policy.
00:05:00.000 There's also another school of more kind of like left libertarians that to me kind of pervert the ideology or the theory, no pun intended with the word pervert, but who seem to that, well, they kind of seem to believe that because libertarians believe in individual freedom, they are for if somebody is doing something that is not initiating violence against other people, it must be celebrated.
00:05:30.000 Yes.
00:05:31.000 And I totally reject that.
00:05:33.000 So I do, you know, I do believe that adults have the right to live whatever lifestyle they want to, so long as they're not violating the rights of other people.
00:05:41.000 But that doesn't mean at all that they're, in fact, I would argue that if that's the libertarian view, then it's even more necessary that we have things like social standards and judgment and stigmas, uncertain behavior, and that it doesn't follow at all from me believing that a cop shouldn't bash you over the head with a club for something doesn't mean that therefore it ought to be celebrated.
00:06:06.000 Well, so when you said that on Tucker's podcast, I verbally, I was going for a walk, I said, thank you.
00:06:12.000 Because I mean, having been around what I call cultural libertarians, and I'm going to say this and I, you could disagree.
00:06:19.000 There's, there's just like a freak element where these people, like, if I, if I all of a sudden say that I don't think it's a good thing to do acid, they're like, what do you mean?
00:06:25.000 Like, do you not know of the great, you know, benefits?
00:06:28.000 And I was like, well, hold on a second.
00:06:29.000 Like, it's okay to be very, I totally understand the argument that you don't want government to get in the way of people's agency.
00:06:36.000 I, I think there's my worldview is more nuanced than that, but I totally respect it.
00:06:40.000 Where it gets weird to me is when all of a sudden those activities are celebrated, venerated.
00:06:46.000 And does that, is that, is that, is that a faction of like modern libertarianism?
00:06:51.000 Yeah, I mean, look, 100%.
00:06:53.000 And I'm with you on that.
00:06:54.000 I mean, I think that in the same sense that, well, let's say outside of like a sliver of maybe some very hardcore right-wingers, I don't think anybody is really advocating that it ought to be illegal to cheat on your wife or cheat on your husband or something like that.
00:07:11.000 I don't think almost nobody is advocating that that ought to carry with it like a 10-year jail sentence.
00:07:18.000 However, we can all acknowledge that that's wrong and you know what I mean, should be viewed that way.
00:07:25.000 And so you just apply that to almost everything else that, you know, there's just because something ought to be legal doesn't mean it ought to be applauded.
00:07:37.000 And in fact, I think one of the areas, and I talked about this with Tucker, I think one of the areas where libertarians are very, very goofy is that, or some libertarians, many are not, but that if you're going to say that you don't want government dictating morality and you don't want government being the ones who determine many different, you know, types of human interaction, well, then something else has to be determining that.
00:08:02.000 And what you need, you know, what I believe is I think you need for any system to function, libertarian or otherwise, you need a moral society.
00:08:09.000 Otherwise, things aren't going to work.
00:08:11.000 Yes.
00:08:11.000 And that the founding fathers agreed.
00:08:13.000 The Constitution is only sustainable for a moral and religious people. 0.51
00:08:18.000 And I want to get into that later. 0.91
00:08:19.000 So then let's get back to this last weekend.
00:08:21.000 So you gave a great speech, and I want to just make sure people understand your speech on how the deep state framed Trump was excellent.
00:08:29.000 But also you were trying to get the audience not to boo Trump and to be respectful.
00:08:35.000 So I first want to play this just to kind of give you the praise you deserve.
00:08:38.000 Let's play cut 140.
00:08:40.000 Here's what we believe.
00:08:42.000 Donald Trump as president of the United States of America was framed for treason by his own deep state.
00:08:54.000 And those people belong in jail.
00:08:58.000 It is an absolute crime against our nation that the intelligence agencies that supposedly work for the president would dare frame a presidential candidate.
00:09:08.000 But they crossed a whole nother line when they framed the sitting commander and chief.
00:09:13.000 And not one of them has paid for that.
00:09:16.000 And that is unacceptable.
00:09:18.000 And so first of all, very well said.
00:09:20.000 And the Intel agencies are completely out of control.
00:09:24.000 You then went to Cut 23, where you said, hey, guys, we believe in free speech, so please be respectful.
00:09:30.000 So I'm super curious about this, what happened after this.
00:09:32.000 Play Cut 23, please.
00:09:34.000 Guys, listen, here's my message to the libertarians here.
00:09:38.000 The former president of the United States of America and the current frontrunner to be the next president is here to talk to you. 0.90
00:09:49.000 We are not a bunch of college leftist sissies.
00:09:53.000 We believe in free speech.
00:09:54.000 So be respectful.
00:09:57.000 I'm not telling you you have to agree with him and I'm not telling you you have to cheer for him.
00:10:03.000 But we're not having like Jordan Peterson at Berkeley event here.
00:10:07.000 And the message we're sending to the world is not that we can't handle ideas that we disagree with.
00:10:18.000 Then what happened after you tried to throw down the gauntlet there?
00:10:23.000 Well, many people in that room did not listen to me.
00:10:27.000 And, you know, it did kind of turn into a Jordan Peterson at Berkeley event.
00:10:32.000 And, you know, just to what you were saying, I wasn't even opposed to libertarians booing Donald Trump.
00:10:37.000 Like, I think if he said something that they liked, you could cheer.
00:10:40.000 And if he said something you didn't like, you could boo.
00:10:43.000 But there's a difference between that and just also just behaving with a little bit of class.
00:10:49.000 And I also, I just hate the kind of booing him before he's even said anything.
00:10:53.000 I just, I just thought that was, it, it reflected poorly on those people who were doing that.
00:11:00.000 And there's nothing productive about that.
00:11:02.000 Well, I totally agree.
00:11:03.000 And I just, from an outsider perspective, who's danced in some of the libertarian circles about a decade ago, I just, I thought that like free speech and kind of this idea of allowing different ideas was like a fundamental small L libertarian value that we're kind of going to allow this marketplace of ideas.
00:11:22.000 It felt like pseudo like leftist libertarianism kind of, and I think that might be a creeping element within the movement.
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00:12:36.000 So Dave, for our audience that wasn't following it carefully or closely, what did the libertarian delegates end up deciding in regards to their pick for president?
00:12:48.000 Well, basically, I was a part of a group called the Mises Caucus, which had been attempting for the last few years to kind of bring the Ron Paul movement into the Libertarian Party and make it more of something that our camp of libertarians would be proud of.
00:13:06.000 And we lost at this convention.
00:13:08.000 And the presidential candidate is, let's say, more a representative of that kind of woke left-wing progressive libertarian movement.
00:13:19.000 And it barely won out.
00:13:21.000 Chase Oliver, is that right?
00:13:24.000 After many, many ballots, you said and you tweeted out that this actually was a best case outcome for Trump, even more so than a standing ovation.
00:13:34.000 What did you mean by that?
00:13:36.000 Well, I mean, look, the reason why Donald Trump was coming to appear at this convention is quite obviously political and that the Libertarian Party has gotten millions of votes over the last couple of years.
00:13:49.000 And I think even though most of the polls right now seem to be very much in Donald Trump's favor, you got Bobby Kennedy running and you just never know how these things might go over the next few months.
00:14:00.000 And so I think they thought this was an important enough demographic to try to appeal to.
00:14:04.000 I think if there's this kind of irony in third party politics, where if we had gotten a strong right-wing libertarian candidate, that would probably be more detrimental to Donald Trump, whereas getting someone like Chase Oliver, whose message is like, you know, something that almost anybody who would be considering voting for Trump or the libertarians would probably be pushed toward Trump in that situation.
00:14:34.000 I think that's very helpful for him.
00:14:38.000 Yeah.
00:14:38.000 And just to show you, we agree, I think Ron Paul's an American hero.
00:14:41.000 A lot of my start started in the Ron Paul Revolution back in 08, 09, 10, saying things that I never even heard before.
00:14:48.000 I see Chase Oliver as a completely different thing than Ron Paul.
00:14:53.000 Would you agree with that?
00:14:54.000 Just almost different planets.
00:14:56.000 Yeah, well, look, and I mean, a lot of this stuff does come down to things that are somewhat outside of the scope of libertarianism, although some of them are actually, you know, within the scope of where we have differences in theory.
00:15:09.000 But, you know, there are people who, you know, I had this one guy at the Libertarian Party who came up to me at one point during the convention, and he's certainly not a member of my camp.
00:15:21.000 And he was wearing like a thong and some weird like furry costume type thing.
00:15:29.000 And he came up to me and he said, he said, hey, I disagree with you on immigration.
00:15:33.000 I'd like to have a discussion about it.
00:15:36.000 And I was, you know, I was just like, ah, sorry, buddy.
00:15:38.000 I'm running over here.
00:15:39.000 I can't do that.
00:15:40.000 But there was this moment where I was like, just the idea that you would even think you could approach another human being like this and they would maybe have a conversation.
00:15:47.000 Like, maybe my mind will be changed by this man in a thong.
00:15:50.000 And, you know, I bet that guy, if you asked him, he probably has a lot of views that I agree with him on and probably a lot of views you agree with him on because this is a libertarian guy.
00:16:00.000 This isn't like just a left-winger.
00:16:02.000 And he's probably, I bet you he's good on guns and he's good on sound money and he's good on cutting government spending and deregulation and a whole bunch of other.
00:16:12.000 But it doesn't matter how much we agree on if because this gap is like unbridgeable.
00:16:18.000 Like, you know what I mean?
00:16:19.000 Like, and so there's a lot of things.
00:16:21.000 There's a lot of things like that where I want to give Chase the benefit of the doubt.
00:16:27.000 I don't know him super well.
00:16:28.000 I think that oftentimes people are under spells.
00:16:34.000 They're ideologically possessed.
00:16:36.000 And you see this a lot where, you know, when you'll see your, like a Democratic voter, and I'm not talking about like one of the corrupt people in the establishment of the Democratic Party.
00:16:44.000 I'm talking about like your uncle, you know what I mean, who votes Democrat.
00:16:49.000 And someone will go, well, like, what do you think about Joe Biden's age?
00:16:52.000 That's really a problem.
00:16:53.000 And they'll be like, oh, you know, age doesn't matter.
00:16:57.000 Trump's old too, or something like this.
00:16:59.000 And you kind of almost feel like this is something out of the emperor's new clothes.
00:17:03.000 Like you're telling me you don't see it.
00:17:06.000 Like, just look at Joe Biden.
00:17:07.000 You're telling me you don't see what the issue is, the man who struggles to walk and speak.
00:17:12.000 And yet it's almost, and they're just trying to find a way in their mind to not acknowledge it.
00:17:16.000 And you just kind of feel like, oh, you're under a spell.
00:17:19.000 You're under some type of spell here that hasn't been broken.
00:17:22.000 And likewise, I think that, you know, one of the positions that I've heard Chase and some of these other libertarians make is that they think puberty blockers for children are acceptable.
00:17:35.000 And like the government shouldn't get in the way of decisions between a parent and the doctor.
00:17:41.000 And I do, in a similar sense, I don't think like these people are evil.
00:17:48.000 There are some people who are evil who push this stuff, but I think a lot of these people are just like under a spell.
00:17:54.000 And you're like, oh, you really don't understand what's going on here?
00:17:57.000 You think this is some type of like organic market outcome?
00:18:02.000 And that, first of all, it's way over the line of what a libertarian should think.
00:18:07.000 It's between the doctors and the parents.
00:18:09.000 It's like, no, like, we don't think child abuse should be left to the market.
00:18:12.000 We think it should be, you know, abolished or outlawed.
00:18:16.000 But on top of that, you're just like, oh, you really, you're just missing the bigger picture of what's going on here.
00:18:22.000 And a lot of people like that, there are these people in the libertarian world.
00:18:26.000 Again, by the way, they're not a majority of the libertarian world, but there is this camp who kind of was like, well, we're against lockdowns and mandates, but we still do think you should stay home and we do think you should get the vaccine.
00:18:40.000 So they kind of rejected, they rejected the policy, but they embraced the propaganda.
00:18:46.000 And that's very problematic.
00:18:48.000 Well, yeah, and I think the adult child distinction is incredibly important.
00:18:51.000 I mean, when it comes to giving a 12-year-old puberty blockers, I mean, that's, it's not a matter of like government overreach.
00:18:58.000 You, you have, if there is a, if there is an argument for the state, it is to protect children.
00:19:03.000 Some people say, no, no, we have to have no laws whatsoever. 0.85
00:19:06.000 I just, I think that's really silly.
00:19:07.000 So I ask you, Dave, I don't mean to put you on the spot here.
00:19:09.000 If Chase becomes kind of that left-wing libertarian, would you, are you still going to vote for him?
00:19:14.000 Are you entertaining other options?
00:19:16.000 Were you swayed by anything Trump said at the convention?
00:19:20.000 No, I mean, look, I'm probably not voting for anyone right now.
00:19:25.000 I mean, I don't know.
00:19:26.000 I, you know, I, there's a lot of what Donald Trump has said that I really liked.
00:19:33.000 And this has been true all the way since 2016.
00:19:36.000 And I think that Donald Trump, for the most part, has very good instincts.
00:19:41.000 The major issue that I have with Donald Trump, and I know this will get, you know, I'm sure there's people in your audience who won't appreciate me saying this, but the problem, we have to, our nation is at such a point of crisis right now that we have to really live in reality and we can't just get married to the narratives that make us feel better.
00:20:02.000 And what I see when I look at the Trump administration was on so many of the key issues, Donald Trump getting rolled by the people that he had around him, appointing some of like the worst people in the country to very, very important positions.
00:20:20.000 And, you know, particularly with the stuff during COVID, where he, you know, like kept Fauci on the job for all of 2020.
00:20:29.000 And everybody can make all their excuses for how he didn't know who the people were.
00:20:33.000 But I'm sorry, there's just, there's no excuse to not know who John Bolton is, who Mike Pence is, who Mike Pompeo is, who Ray is.
00:20:41.000 The guy leading the charge against him at the FBI was appointed by Donald Trump.
00:20:46.000 And it's not even like Donald Trump is coming out now and saying, oh, yes, I realized this mistake.
00:20:52.000 And this is what's going to be different next time.
00:20:54.000 He's talking about building the FBI, a new building.
00:20:57.000 He's talking about Nikki Haley having a place in his cabinet.
00:21:00.000 He was supporting that god-awful foreign aid package that just came out for the war in Ukraine and the war in Gaza.
00:21:09.000 And all of that stuff is just deal breakers for me.
00:21:12.000 Obviously, I couldn't support Joe Biden. 0.98
00:21:15.000 I mean, that's just too ridiculous. 0.99
00:21:18.000 I think he's everything wrong with the country. 0.97
00:21:21.000 Bobby Kennedy has too many no-go issues for me.
00:21:25.000 And then all of this stuff with Chase, like the issues I have are kind of deal breakers.
00:21:29.000 So I'm kind of left to being our own.
00:21:31.000 You are consistent.
00:21:32.000 And to just say one thing, the audience would actually tend to agree that of all the things that they look back on the Trump administration, that even the most loyal Trump supporters would say could have been done better was personnel selection.
00:21:47.000 Even Rush Limbaugh, who is like number one Trump guy, said the people that Trump chooses at times is very puzzling to me.
00:21:54.000 Dave, you have a thought there, but I also want you to say, do you think that Trump did anything for libertarian-leaning voters from the crypto statement to the Ross Albricht to maybe improve his chances?
00:22:06.000 But please finish your thought as well, Dave.
00:22:07.000 So address those two things, please.
00:22:09.000 Well, well, I'll jump to that.
00:22:11.000 I mean, you know, the thing is that I think the issue with any type of promise on a campaign trail is that I think lots of people, but particularly libertarians, have just grown to understand that you have to take these things with a grain of salt and that there's always lots of promises that are made.
00:22:32.000 And if you want to look back at, say, look back at the campaign that George W. Bush ran in the year 2000.
00:22:39.000 Maybe some of your younger audience may not remember this, but if I'm not making this up, George W. Bush ran on a humble foreign policy and that the military should never be used for nation building.
00:22:51.000 It should only be used to fight and win wars.
00:22:53.000 This was his campaign.
00:22:55.000 And he was actually calling out Al Gore in the 2000 debates over this.
00:22:59.000 This guy wants to nation build.
00:23:00.000 We don't do that.
00:23:01.000 And, you know, so and then you look at Barack Obama campaigning on, you know, closing Gitmo and ending the war in Iraq and all of these things that he was going to do.
00:23:11.000 And so, you know, look, I like hearing that he'll pardon Ross Ulbricht on day one.
00:23:16.000 Maybe he will.
00:23:17.000 I don't know.
00:23:19.000 There are, there were good things that Donald Trump did in his first administration.
00:23:23.000 I mean, I give him credit, enormous credit for working out the deal to end the war in Afghanistan.
00:23:29.000 And it was, it was only because Biden insisted on like moving the date so it wasn't Trump's success, it was Biden's.
00:23:36.000 And that's the reason why the whole withdrawal was botched.
00:23:39.000 So I give Donald Trump a lot of credit for that.
00:23:41.000 I think there were, I think almost all of his instincts on foreign policy were correct.
00:23:47.000 I think the real problem, almost all, I don't think all, but a lot of them were.
00:23:51.000 The real problem is you have to have a team of guys around you who are committed to implementing that plan.
00:23:57.000 And he very clearly objectively didn't.
00:23:59.000 I mean, look, Donald Trump, when Donald Trump wanted to pull out of Syria, Mad Dog Mattis resigned, even though he had run on pulling out of Syria.
00:24:09.000 So he didn't even make sure that one of his most important positions, his Secretary of Defense, was on board to follow the plan.
00:24:19.000 And so there's just a lot of stuff like that that makes it very difficult for me to have a high degree of confidence in what he's going to do next time.
00:24:29.000 No, I hear you.
00:24:30.000 And that is a piece of feedback I hear from a lot of people.
00:24:33.000 My view, obviously, I'm very biased.
00:24:35.000 I know him and I respect him.
00:24:36.000 And I think the movement is maturing.
00:24:38.000 And I think we are going to continue to choose better people.
00:24:41.000 I think there's been a cleansing process, but I don't want to get too deep into that.
00:24:44.000 I am curious, though, Dave, that after all of this, do you ever think, should I, do you want to think, boy, should I do the Ron Paul thing and try to be involved in the Republican Party from a liberty standpoint?
00:24:56.000 Or do you think it's healthier from your objectives to have a free society, which I totally resonate with, to go third party?
00:25:02.000 Help me understand why you choose one direction over the other.
00:25:07.000 Yeah, well, look, I mean, it's a very, it's a very debatable issue.
00:25:10.000 And I have, I have a lot of friends who are liberty Republicans and are great people.
00:25:15.000 And I, you know, some of my heroes, I mean, Thomas Massey and Rand Paul and guys like that are heroes to me.
00:25:22.000 So I'm not against anybody who wants to be a Liberty Republican.
00:25:27.000 The truth is that my focus is not really on the political.
00:25:34.000 It's always been much more about ideas.
00:25:36.000 And I think ideas are powerful.
00:25:38.000 And I think they're much more powerful than voting in presidential elections.
00:25:43.000 I mean, when you, I'm not, I'm not like telling anyone listening not to vote.
00:25:46.000 I'm sure everybody has already made up their mind whether they're doing that.
00:25:49.000 But we do, I think, get into this kind of like mystical type of thinking when we think about voting for presidential elections.
00:25:56.000 Where, look, anytime, if you're taking a couple hours to do something where you have one 150 millionth of a say in something, probably almost anything you could do with that time could be more valuable than that.
00:26:10.000 And so, again, I'm not like saying, I'm not telling everyone not to vote.
00:26:13.000 I'm just the way what I see as my role is to tell the truth as I see it.
00:26:19.000 And I think that somebody has to play that role or, you know, or many people have to play that role.
00:26:24.000 And the problem with party politics, and I'm not saying like, I'm not saying you don't tell the truth or something like that, but I'm sure you know what I'm saying where The problem with politics is you get incentivized to once you've picked a side, you want to say whatever it is to help that side.
00:26:43.000 And you do feel this pressure to not, you know what I mean?
00:26:46.000 Like say, and so the thing that I like about being in the Libertarian Party is that I'm unencumbered by anything, by just telling the truth about every candidate the way I see it.
00:26:56.000 I respect that.
00:26:57.000 And intellectual honesty is one of the great.
00:26:59.000 And by the way, I have not a lot of friends at Republican leadership because of some of the stance I take, including challenging neocons, which is a great segue to what I want to talk about next.
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00:28:14.000 Dave Smith continues thus.
00:28:15.000 So, Dave, one thing that I have great agreement with libertarians on is our outright hatred of neocons.
00:28:24.000 And so, what is a neocon?
00:28:26.000 How would you define it in your terms?
00:28:29.000 Well, yeah, they sure are easy to hate.
00:28:31.000 You know, the term neocon has become this kind of broader term, but the neoconservatives were a small group of Trotskyite, former Trotskyite communists, who basically decided to join the Republican Party after World War II.
00:28:53.000 And they were a small group that were considered to be like intellectuals.
00:28:58.000 I've never found any of them to be particularly impressive, but they ultimately ended up really taking a lot of control of our government and particularly our foreign policy.
00:29:09.000 And these were people like Leo Strauss and Irving Kristol, and then their Irving Kristol's son, Bill Kristol, of course, went on to be very prominent, a very prominent writer during the George W. Bush years.
00:29:23.000 People like Dick Cheney, Richard Pearl, David Wormser, and many others.
00:29:29.000 Victoria Newland and her husband, Robert Kagan, were very involved in this.
00:29:33.000 And they had a very specific foreign policy agenda.
00:29:37.000 And you can go back and read their writings in the 1990s in a project for a new American century.
00:29:43.000 You can read A Clean Break, which was a memo that was sent to Benjamin Netanyahu when he first became prime minister in 1996.
00:29:50.000 And their plan basically was after the Soviet Union fell, they were like, now is the time for America to exert its power around the world.
00:29:59.000 I'm not exaggerating at all when I say this.
00:30:01.000 In a project for a new American century, they said now that the Soviet Union has fallen, we should fight a war.
00:30:06.000 We should fight wars on multiple fronts.
00:30:09.000 And the goal there was to kind of, you know, basically have American influence around the world by force and that this would result in, you know, the Middle East embracing democracy and American influence, you know, sweeping through Eastern Europe and all of these things. 0.76
00:30:26.000 And they essentially won the day in terms of the fight for policy.
00:30:30.000 Like they got all of these things.
00:30:31.000 All of the terror wars and all of the NATO expansion and all of this stuff was a direct result of this group of people who really pushed for it.
00:30:38.000 Today, the term neocon has almost become just like a pejorative any, well, yes, no, I agree, but it's almost just like anyone who wants the next war is like, oh, you're a neocon.
00:30:49.000 And it is good that they've kind of like, yes, that's, that's what the term's been associated with.
00:30:53.000 But the truth is that it was a stark rejection of the advice of all of the founders, which, you know, the founders disagreed on a lot of issues.
00:31:03.000 One issue where they were unanimous was the idea of non-intervention and the idea of rejecting entangling alliances and searching the world for monsters to destroy.
00:31:13.000 As John Quincy Adams put it, if we search the world for monsters to destroy, we will become the dicatrice of the world, but we will lose our own soul.
00:31:22.000 And I mean, if wiser words haven't ever been spoken, I've never heard them.
00:31:26.000 But that's.
00:31:28.000 Sorry, guys.
00:31:28.000 No, no, no.
00:31:29.000 So help me understand how this fringe Trotskyite, parasitic worldview, and it is, enveloped all of the kingdom of Washington, D.C. Help me understand that because this was not the predominant view in D.C. Even Clinton had two wings.
00:31:49.000 He had the neocon wing, Madden Albright, and he had, I can't remember the other guy, but there was at least some tension.
00:31:54.000 He ended up being more neocon towards the end of his presidency, you know, bombing Bosnia and all sorts of crazy stuff.
00:32:00.000 But there was at least some tension.
00:32:02.000 How did the neocons, Bush even, like you said, had to pretend like he wasn't one.
00:32:07.000 Did 9-11 really just, was it that big?
00:32:10.000 Was it 9-11 shock and awe, this, we must now fight wars in every place, every square inch, every continent, or else we get another 9-11.
00:32:20.000 At least that's how I explain it to myself.
00:32:23.000 Yeah, well, I mean, that's, that's a huge element in it for sure.
00:32:26.000 So, I mean, they, they ended up getting, a lot of them got positions in Reagan's government and in Bush Sr.'s government.
00:32:33.000 They're in George W. Bush's government.
00:32:36.000 I think because Dick Cheney was his vice president, they ended up getting many more positions of a lot of power.
00:32:42.000 And like you said, after 9-11, that was their moment to really jump on things and seize control.
00:32:49.000 Look, it also doesn't hurt that, look, in Washington, D.C., it's always about whether you're going with the wind or against the wind, right?
00:32:57.000 So if you're sitting there and your thing is we advocate something that is in the financial interest of the military industrial complex, you're going to have a much easier time progressing, getting promoted, implementing your ideas than if you were, say, advocating a 50% reduction in the defense budget.
00:33:17.000 That's going to be a much tougher sell.
00:33:18.000 And so part of the thing also is that they advocated for something that powerful people were on board with.
00:33:25.000 And you see this all the time, right?
00:33:26.000 Like it's like, why is it that, say, John Rawls is so much more popular amongst respected society than Thomas Sowell?
00:33:35.000 And it's like, well, because Thomas Sowell's recommendation is that you guys all lose a bunch of power and money.
00:33:41.000 So no one's trying to promote that.
00:33:43.000 You know what I mean?
00:33:44.000 Like, like if you were to cut government spending by 80%, which is probably what Thomas Sowell would recommend, then, you know, all those millionaires in Washington, D.C. all lose their gravy trains.
00:33:54.000 So of course that's not what's going to be promoted.
00:33:56.000 But if there's an intellectual who has a justification for why DC should have more power, they're going to rise up.
00:34:02.000 Like, you know, even if you think someone like Bernie Sanders, think about how easy a trip it's been for him.
00:34:07.000 He's not like, they don't really viciously go after him the way they do real dissidents because his message is basically there should be more power in Washington, D.C. They're okay with that.
00:34:17.000 I mean, maybe when he talks about breaking up the big banks or something, they're like, all right, enough there, Bernie.
00:34:22.000 Calm down.
00:34:22.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:22.000 That's right.
00:34:23.000 Go, go, go, talk about the post office or something.
00:34:25.000 Yeah.
00:34:26.000 Right, right.
00:34:26.000 But in general, and so I do think that, look, obviously 9-11 laid the ground for everybody in the country to be like, hey, we got hit.
00:34:33.000 We're going to go hit back.
00:34:35.000 You tell us who to hit without asking too many more questions.
00:34:38.000 But also just the fact that it's like they're on the side of power and that's always an easier road.
00:34:44.000 So the challenge that I have comprehending part of this, and maybe you can help me explain, is the vanishing and the disappearing of the anti-war left.
00:34:55.000 The home of the criticism of neoconservatism is actually within conservatism, much more now than on the left.
00:35:02.000 Again, we do not control the Republican Party.
00:35:04.000 We're small.
00:35:05.000 We got like Rand Paul.
00:35:06.000 We got Josh Hawley.
00:35:07.000 We got Mike Lee, but it's growing and it's growing for multiple reasons.
00:35:12.000 As just someone who really cares about ideas, JD Vance is great as well.
00:35:16.000 The left seems as if they are totally uninterested in challenging the power of the military administrative state.
00:35:26.000 Well, so I think there were two, the two major factors that really destroyed the anti-war left were Barack Obama and Donald Trump.
00:35:34.000 And for very different reasons.
00:35:36.000 And I think that, look, there is something in the left liberal mind.
00:35:41.000 And I want to be as generous when I say this as possible.
00:35:43.000 I think it's part of the reason why they fell for the whole wokeism nonsense, is that in the left liberal mind, at the core of their identity, as much as at the core of the identity of conservatives' mind is believing in God, at the core of the left liberal mind's identity is not being racist.
00:36:04.000 Yes, we're the not being racist.
00:36:06.000 That is the first commandment, the prime directive.
00:36:08.000 Thou shalt not be racist.
00:36:09.000 It is, you shall have, that is number one.
00:36:12.000 Now, if you want to be as generous as possible, you could say that given some of the ugly, very past history of this country, there was probably a time where that kind of made sense, that it was like, hey, I want to be the one who's not a bigot and I want to be the one who doesn't believe in these policies, whatever segregation or whatever they might be.
00:36:32.000 But there was something so intoxicating about Barack Obama as like their cool black friend that they just could not criticize him.
00:36:41.000 And when he started to continue all of the worst of the Bush era foreign policy and really drastically expanded that, I mean, he didn't just keep the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq going.
00:36:51.000 He launched a war, a regime change war in Libya, attempted a regime change war in Syria, Yemen, Somalia.
00:36:58.000 I mean, spread it to Niger and all over the place, and then expanded on the worst of the Patriot Act abuses.
00:37:06.000 And you just couldn't get it.
00:37:08.000 You know, there were still some principled leftists who objected to this, but it dwindled in numbers.
00:37:14.000 You know, it was 10 times smaller, maybe a thousand times smaller than it was under George W. Bush.
00:37:19.000 And then there's just something about the personality of Donald Trump that is this just unapologetic, straight white, rich man.
00:37:28.000 Like just by his existence, he triggers them so much.
00:37:32.000 Because Donald Trump, you know, look, by Donald Trump's whole thing is like, listen, I'm rich.
00:37:37.000 I'm a winner.
00:37:38.000 I got, I get hot chicks.
00:37:40.000 I build big, tall buildings, you know, just like the essence of who he was.
00:37:44.000 The left just hated that.
00:37:46.000 And then him, at least rhetorically, being like, hey, and guess what?
00:37:50.000 I kind of oppose these wars. 1.00
00:37:51.000 I think George W. Bush is an idiot for getting us into the war in Iraq. 1.00
00:37:55.000 And it was like they were just going to be on whatever the opposite side of Donald Trump was. 1.00
00:37:59.000 And that happened to be the same side the CIA was on.
00:38:03.000 And so instead of the left having any ability to be like, hey, we oppose Donald Trump, but not for the reasons the CIA does.
00:38:10.000 And we also oppose the CIA.
00:38:12.000 They just went, what's the CIA narrative?
00:38:14.000 Yep, we oppose him because he's a Russian spy. 0.95
00:38:17.000 You know, the most ridiculous claim that was so obviously made up from the very beginning. 0.95
00:38:23.000 And it just, it totally ruined them. 0.62
00:38:24.000 There has been this very strange dynamic since the war in Gaza has come where now there's these leftist protests bubbling back up.
00:38:33.000 I'll confess, I don't exactly know why this is getting them, whereas like the war in Yemen or Libya or Syria didn't do Ukraine stuff.
00:38:43.000 I mean, come on.
00:38:44.000 Or Ukraine.
00:38:45.000 Yeah, they were terrible on Ukraine.
00:38:46.000 Yeah.
00:38:47.000 So I don't know exactly why, but I am kind of interested in that dynamic.
00:38:51.000 I have no idea.
00:38:52.000 I could only guess and speculate.
00:38:54.000 And it's such smart commentary that you're putting forward because Donald Trump broke them.
00:39:00.000 And next thing you know, the like anti-war hippies are like getting coffee at Langley. 0.91
00:39:07.000 And they're like, yeah, it's actually kind of nice here because we hate Trump and he's so terrible.
00:39:12.000 And let's go give more money to go do regime change.
00:39:17.000 Like, wait a second.
00:39:17.000 I thought your whole thing was about how American hegemony needs to be reined in.
00:39:23.000 Yeah, I think that's really smart.
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00:40:24.000 As a libertarian, though, and someone who does not like adventurous foreign wars, do you see a connection?
00:40:30.000 And this is what those of us that are populist nationalists, we see that the wars are tied with mass migration, invade the world, invite the world.
00:40:38.000 Do you see that kind of one-two combo?
00:40:40.000 And I'm curious how you as a libertarian think about that.
00:40:43.000 Oh, yeah.
00:40:43.000 No, 100%.
00:40:45.000 And it's crazy.
00:40:46.000 I don't know if you remember.
00:40:48.000 So look, if you remember during the George W. Bush years and during the Barack Obama years, I mean, during Barack Obama's presidency, the right-wing radio critique of Obama, like on right-wing radio across the country and on Fox News and all of this stuff, for the most part, was that he was too soft, that he wasn't tough like George W. Bush was.
00:41:11.000 And if you remember, the big critique of him from Republican talking heads was always that he won't say radical Islamic jihad.
00:41:20.000 And so even as Obama was like expanding all of these wars, killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims, the critique was he's not tough enough.
00:41:30.000 He's not bombing enough.
00:41:31.000 You know, Charles Krauthammer's critique of his action in Syria was that he wasn't overthrowing Assad quickly enough and he was only spending 50 billion when he could be spending 100 billion and all of this stuff.
00:41:42.000 And they were quite content to just demonize Muslims as like they're all radical Islamists and all this stuff.
00:41:51.000 And as soon as Donald Trump said, he said, hey, we got to shut down immigration. 0.93
00:41:57.000 As soon as Donald Trump went, hey, we got to shut down all Muslim immigration into the United States until we figure out what's going on. 0.97
00:42:04.000 Every neocon turned around and went, racist. 0.98
00:42:08.000 Exactly. 1.00
00:42:09.000 You're a racist for saying that. 0.98
00:42:11.000 It's really something that you could demonize Muslims all you wanted to if it was selling a war. 0.55
00:42:17.000 And even right now, most of like the Republican, the Republican establishment, look right now, if you're defending Israel's campaign in Gaza, if you're defending a war, then the establishment Republicans are fine with you demonizing a group among them. 0.96
00:42:30.000 Yes, but if you have a problem with that, at the same time, they're like, it's okay to bomb the people in Gaza, but hey, we want to go bring in 200,000 because they enrich our communities. 0.80
00:42:39.000 I'm like, wait, hold on, which one is it exactly?
00:42:41.000 Look, so and that's that's exactly right.
00:42:44.000 The analogy I use is kind of like this, right?
00:42:46.000 I go, look, imagine that I am like I'm a lot tougher than I am, right?
00:42:54.000 Like, let's say I was like some sharpshooter in the Marines or something like that, and I'm home and I got a bunch of guns and I got my place is fully, you know, protected.
00:43:04.000 And someone who's unarmed breaks into my house and I see them.
00:43:09.000 I have all the weapons needed to take this guy out, but I don't.
00:43:12.000 And I allow them to come in and rob from me and assault my family or whatever.
00:43:18.000 I think it could be reasonably deduced from that that I intentionally let that happen because you certainly have the ability to stop this and you chose not to. 0.98
00:43:28.000 And likewise, this mass flux of immigration into the country, don't tell me for a second that the most powerful government in the history of the world, Washington, D.C., can't stop this flood if they wanted to. 0.56
00:43:41.000 Exactly. 0.89
00:43:41.000 I mean, we have a government that has power unlike any organization in the history of humanity ever has. 0.89
00:43:47.000 We can snap our fingers and a wedding in Yemen is gone.
00:43:50.000 If we want to overthrow any other government in the world, we make the decision and that government's overthrown.
00:43:55.000 Short of a few.
00:43:56.000 There's a few we might have trouble with. 0.83
00:43:57.000 But the amount of power, the idea that we can't protect our borders is just ridiculous.
00:44:02.000 And if you look at, say, like the UN money that goes to these NGOs that are funding these migrant caravans coming in, and you look at how much anybody who just had anything common sense to say about immigration over the last, say, five years, seven, eight years, has been totally viciously demonized.
00:44:21.000 It's hard to not conclude that this is a plan of sorts.
00:44:26.000 Now, I don't know exactly what the plan is. 0.72
00:44:28.000 I do know that I'm old enough to remember watching MSNBC during Barack Obama's second term when they were all openly bragging about how this was a plan and they called it the Browning of America.
00:44:40.000 And they were like, this is going to give the Democrats permanent majorities in perpetuity.
00:44:45.000 This is going to be a one-party country after this.
00:44:47.000 So isn't it so great?
00:44:48.000 They all said this out loud.
00:44:50.000 You go find videos of Joy Reed talking about this, Joe Biden talking about this, Rachel Maddox talking about this.
00:44:55.000 Then, as soon as there was a right-wing reaction to it that rose up and said, no, we don't want this, then they turned it into like somehow you're a member of the Ku Klux Klan if you address this.
00:45:10.000 And then they decided that, and don't get me wrong, there were like a sliver of very hard right-wing guys who would talk about the great replacement theory and how white people had to fight back.
00:45:22.000 But that was just like a tiny sliver of the right wing.
00:45:25.000 But then broadly speaking, if anyone on the right pushed back against this at all, it was like, oh, you're those neo-Nazis.
00:45:31.000 You're just like them.
00:45:32.000 Even though these guys were all bragging about this plan to be.
00:45:35.000 So just, and I got to give you my pitch here, Dave, because I know, is that the one thing I want libertarians to think about with Trump is the idea of national sovereignty.
00:45:44.000 I know the personnel thing I want is that the one thing about international wars and mass migration is that we are losing the idea of a nation.
00:45:51.000 And if there's one libertarian principle, it's that you must be able to say that you have either private property, your own nation.
00:46:00.000 The whole idea of the oneness of the world, I completely reject. 1.00
00:46:03.000 I think it is a silly, stupid, maniacal, I think honestly, demonic, demonically driven idea. 0.99
00:46:11.000 And it is about the erosion of the nation state as we know it, fundamentally, to try to bring in kind of this globalist type experiment. 1.00
00:46:19.000 I want to just ask you really quick, what gives you hope right now, Dave?
00:46:21.000 You're traveling the country, speaking to a lot of people.
00:46:23.000 What gives you hope?
00:46:24.000 Well, listen, I'll tell you what, what really, really gives me the most amount of hope, and I certainly do meet a lot of great people going around the country.
00:46:31.000 But what I really love the most is that, look, governments rely on propaganda.
00:46:38.000 There's a reason for that.
00:46:39.000 There's a reason why we didn't just invade Iraq in late 2001. 0.89
00:46:42.000 They spent the whole year of 2002 trying to convince everyone they had weapons of mass destruction and were in on 9-11 because they need the people to buy in.
00:46:50.000 And for the first time in, I think, in history, governments and powerful people have lost the monopoly on information.
00:46:58.000 And there are shows.
00:46:59.000 I mean, there are just, there's thousands and thousands of shows on the internet that have bigger audiences than the corporate media giants do.
00:47:07.000 And their ability to control the narrative and control propaganda has been weakened to an unbelievable level.
00:47:15.000 And that is why they're all freaking out so much.
00:47:18.000 That's why they're so scared of Donald Trump that they're trying to use the Justice Department to keep him from being elected again.
00:47:24.000 They know they can no longer control the conversation.
00:47:27.000 And that's a tremendous reason to be optimistic as far as I'm concerned.
00:47:32.000 And Dave, I'm going to keep you just for one or two more minutes because I want to make sure we summarize this.
00:47:37.000 But I will speak for our audience.
00:47:38.000 And we'd love to have you speak at some of our turning point events.
00:47:41.000 And I mean that, which is that I want you to think about and just kind of plant the seed, you trying to influence the Republican Party because there is a place for you in the Republican Party and you wouldn't be booed more than you might believe.
00:47:52.000 The audience is loving this.
00:47:53.000 They don't agree with everything, but they're loving it because we cherish liberty as a fundamental American value.
00:47:58.000 Dave, plug your stuff, podcast, your comedy, all that.
00:48:01.000 Give this opportunity if the audience wants to learn more about you.
00:48:04.000 Sure, sure.
00:48:05.000 Well, if you want to come see me live, comicdave Smith.com has all my live dates I tour all around the country.
00:48:11.000 Part of the problem is my podcast at Comic Dave Smith on Twitter.
00:48:15.000 And I will be tomorrow.
00:48:16.000 I'm debating Chris Cuomo on the Patrick Bett David show about the corporate media coverage of the COVID era.
00:48:23.000 So make sure you check that out.
00:48:25.000 But he now admits he did it wrong.
00:48:27.000 What is there to debate?
00:48:29.000 Yeah, I know.
00:48:31.000 It seems like almost too easy.
00:48:32.000 Like you go like, so we're starting off with you admitting I was right about everything and now we're debating about it.
00:48:37.000 So I don't exactly know.
00:48:38.000 Now he takes Ivermecton.
00:48:40.000 He is, he's, he's taken, by the way, I'm sure you've seen it.
00:48:43.000 The old clips of him are so bad.
00:48:46.000 They are, he was effectively, and I do not say this, he was close to basically saying those of us that refuse the mRNA gene altering vaccine because we don't believe in that nonsense.
00:48:58.000 He was basically calling us like undemens, like very close.
00:49:02.000 Am I wrong?
00:49:03.000 No, he didn't say that.
00:49:04.000 No, he maybe didn't exactly.
00:49:07.000 He mused about whether we should have our freedoms or not, or why exactly is it that we get our freedoms?
00:49:14.000 Why can these guys breathe?
00:49:15.000 Dude, the entire corporate media and including much of the supposed conservative corporate media all failed on COVID.
00:49:23.000 I mean, everybody failed on COVID except for a very small group of people.
00:49:27.000 And, you know, some of them, even amongst like, say, Republican governors or something like that, there were only like three who were actually really good on it.
00:49:35.000 Like DeSantis and Noam were the outliers.
00:49:35.000 You know what I mean?
00:49:38.000 It's not like that was the typical Republican governor.
00:49:42.000 But of how bad the entire corporate press was, he was the worst.
00:49:46.000 He was the one who was interviewing his brother every night during lockdowns.
00:49:51.000 He was the one who was the number one hour at CNN and was just shaming the unvaccinated and is now vaccine injured.
00:49:58.000 I mean, it's, I don't know how he's possibly going to approach this debate, but I'm quite interested to see.
00:50:03.000 Dave Smith, part of the problem podcast.
00:50:06.000 I will be watching that.
00:50:08.000 That is for sure.
00:50:09.000 And I wonder if he's going to have some contrition that he basically was responsible for pushing an unfounded, unscientific, gene-altering shot on a population that didn't need it, shaming and suggesting that our God-given rights should be given because we didn't want to become lab rats for the largest open-air experiment in pharmaceutical history.
00:50:31.000 So curious what he has to say.
00:50:32.000 Yeah, I don't know what he's going to say, but I'll be ready for whatever it is.
00:50:37.000 And you could just say, is this brought to you by Pfizer?
00:50:40.000 You could say you could ask me.
00:50:41.000 Dave, thanks so much.
00:50:42.000 Talk to you soon.
00:50:43.000 Thank you.
00:50:44.000 Thanks, Charlie.
00:50:47.000 Thanks so much for listening.
00:50:48.000 Everybody, email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:50:51.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.
00:50:55.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.