The Charlie Kirk Show - When Race Trumps Merit with Heather Mac Donald and Will Hild

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody, what is ESG?

00:00:01.000 Who is Larry Fink?

00:00:02.000 We dive into this villain that is on the landscape of the corporate pension fight.

00:00:08.000 And then Heather McDonald, who is one of the clearest thinkers in the entire movement, joins us for her reaction on the Memphis situation and also what happens when race is prioritized above merit.

00:00:18.000 Email me directly, freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:34.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:35.000 Here we go.

00:00:36.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:37.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:40.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

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00:00:46.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:47.000 He's an incredible guy.

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00:01:17.000 I'm just curious, just to kind of get a little bit of a check on the pulse, email me, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:01:25.000 Where are you standing on the 2024 race?

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00:01:41.000 I'm behind Trump in 2024, but I'm just worried where you guys are.

00:01:44.000 I'm not worried.

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00:01:52.000 Freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show podcast.

00:01:58.000 I'm very worried about ESG.

00:02:02.000 It's one of the great threats to our liberty, one of our great threats to private property, one of the great threats to Western civilization.

00:02:09.000 And I don't think people understand it fully or completely.

00:02:13.000 And you've been hearing about one of our partners here on this program, Consumers Research, great organization.

00:02:19.000 Love to be partnering with them.

00:02:21.000 And joining us now is the executive director of Consumers Research, Will Hild, taking over as executive director in 2020, launched Consumer First Initiative.

00:02:30.000 Will joins us right now.

00:02:31.000 Will, welcome to the program.

00:02:33.000 Thanks for having me, Charlie.

00:02:34.000 It's great to be here.

00:02:34.000 Will, tell us about ESG and the work that you're doing to expose this treacherous scheme.

00:02:41.000 Well, very simply, ESG stands for environmental social governance, and it's billed by its proponents, like big asset managers like BlackRock and State Street and Vanguard.

00:02:41.000 Absolutely.

00:02:50.000 It's billed as just another investment strategy.

00:02:52.000 You know, you've got Warren Buffett out there doing value investing.

00:02:55.000 You've got big names doing momentum investment.

00:02:58.000 We're over here doing ESG.

00:03:00.000 What it really is, is a stalking horse.

00:03:03.000 It's a way to wedge in a far-left progressive platform into the management of the United States investment funds and to push corporate America to basically just become a political utility for the Democratic Party.

00:03:17.000 And I'm sad to say that unfortunately, they've built it right under our noses.

00:03:21.000 And right this day, you have billions upon billions of dollars of red state pension fund money that's being managed by these companies.

00:03:30.000 It's being used to drive up prices at the grocery store and at the gas pump and to undermine conservative value.

00:03:37.000 Where did ESG come from?

00:03:39.000 It seems as if this was an abstract academic concept that, at least in my own memory, began with trying to get college pension funds to divest from fossil fuels.

00:03:50.000 At least that seemed to be the activist energy when I first got started at Turning Point USA.

00:03:56.000 2012, 2013, there were these wackadoodle apparatchiks that used to take over these board of regent meetings at Williams College and UC Berkeley, and they'd say, we need to divest all of our pension funds from fossil fuels, but it didn't seem to really have that much teeth.

00:04:13.000 And then out of nowhere, all of a sudden you have BlackRock and these trillion-dollar fund managers that take this incredibly radical concept of manipulating pension funds based on ideology.

00:04:26.000 Is that a fair history of this?

00:04:29.000 Absolutely.

00:04:30.000 If you want to go to the very, very beginnings of it, Wall Street tries to claim that it's all about fiduciary duty and risk management.

00:04:37.000 The term ESG, the idea, the concept behind it, actually was a project of the UN, came out of a UN report in 2005.

00:04:45.000 So it's about 15 to 20 years old now, but it's always been a nefarious plot to try and push the free market economy that provides us all the goods and services we need into a leftward direction.

00:04:59.000 But you're 100% right.

00:05:01.000 It really, really took off between the 2012 into 2017.

00:05:06.000 It really went parabolic.

00:05:08.000 And you had CEOs like Larry Fink of BlackRock starting to just openly state that they were going to use all of the, as you said, trillions of dollars that they have.

00:05:17.000 And it's not their money either.

00:05:18.000 Exactly.

00:05:19.000 Exactly.

00:05:20.000 It is state, local, federal pension funds.

00:05:22.000 BlackRock manages about 80% of the federal thrift savings plan.

00:05:25.000 So get this.

00:05:26.000 You have the pension fund for our United States military right now pushing left-wing policy proposals in corporate America, have them targeting things like net zero, which is another, I know, wonky term of art.

00:05:40.000 What that means is companies being net zero carbon emitters by 2050.

00:05:45.000 This comes out of the Paris Accords.

00:05:46.000 This is that crazy treaty that the United States has never signed, couldn't even get through a democratically held Senate when they were trying to push it through.

00:05:54.000 It's that insane.

00:05:55.000 It would have us all living in hovels and caves again if we actually tried to do it.

00:06:00.000 And yet Larry Fink and BlackRock and the other big asset managers are using our state's investment dollars to push this nonsense.

00:06:08.000 And they do it through threatening companies.

00:06:09.000 I'll give you a concrete example.

00:06:11.000 Two years ago, they voted three radical environmentalists onto the board of Exxon.

00:06:15.000 That's a company obviously that should be focused on oil and gas recovery and making sure that there's affordable energy for United States consumers.

00:06:23.000 Instead, BlackRock is pushing them towards unaffordable, unreliable, so-called green energies, which are nothing but.

00:06:31.000 They're horrible polluters built mostly in China. 0.98

00:06:34.000 So again, this is a real nefarious plot to turn corporate America into simply a wing of the Democratic Party.

00:06:41.000 And I'm sad to say that as of right now, they're using conservative states like Texas and Florida.

00:06:47.000 They're using our pension dollars against them.

00:06:49.000 So Will, all of this is somewhat sustainable, to use one of their words.

00:06:56.000 If the economy is growing robustly and if profits are being reported that are really healthy, one of my working theories is, and I'm just curious to see how it works out.

00:07:10.000 Can you sustain an anti-market force, which really what ESG is, when all of a sudden the sobering reality of economic recession starts to set in?

00:07:23.000 Do you think that as the economy starts to turn sour in the next nine months, that some of these major firms are going to kind of put ESG on the back burner?

00:07:34.000 You raise a great point.

00:07:35.000 And I share that same hope, but also projection that as the negative consequences of ESG that they've been running for the last 10 years starts to come home to roost.

00:07:47.000 We already see it with the inflation, with the lack of energy supplies.

00:07:51.000 These are because of 10 years of underinvestment in oil and gas recovery, new mining, new agriculture projects because of the restriction of capital by ESG.

00:08:02.000 And it absolutely is going to throw sand in their gears.

00:08:05.000 I'm hopeful it will also focus people's minds on what ESG is, what it means for them and their families, so that we can finally do something about it.

00:08:13.000 Because during the cheap money era, during the low inflation era, people, it was real easy to virtually signal.

00:08:19.000 I know you go hard against the virtue signal.

00:08:21.000 It was cheap to do that.

00:08:21.000 And it's been cheap for America to do that.

00:08:23.000 Now it's expensive.

00:08:24.000 And it's time that we turn the boat around and start doing what we should be doing.

00:08:28.000 Yeah, I think what you're doing is so important and it's perfect timing.

00:08:31.000 And again, it's consumersresearch.org.

00:08:33.000 I love it.

00:08:34.000 I learned a lot by going there because there's going to be this kind of delicious deathmatch that is going to unfold between these hyper-woke HR departments and the bean counters at these major corporations, where they're going to say, look, we really can't afford to pick our stock portfolio or allocate the funding of this firm solely based on abstract ideological principles.

00:08:58.000 When all of a sudden interest rates go up to 7% or 8% for a home and inflation is going out of control and the economy starts to fall and Dropbox lets off 10,000 people and Salesforce lets off 15,000 people and Meta lets off 20,000 people and the economy starts to fall apart.

00:09:15.000 I think it's going to be a blow to the ideologues unless these companies are willing to become super PACs and not turn a profit.

00:09:24.000 Well, and you're already seeing some of that.

00:09:26.000 They're pushing companies and they, again, this falls under their ESG framework to admit so they can scold them when they've given to political candidates that don't toe the line on net zero or trade associations or C3s or C4s.

00:09:40.000 So they know that the clock is running out, that the pressure is going to be higher and higher to turn the boat around, and they are doing whatever they can to gag politically anyone who would oppose them.

00:09:51.000 It's truly a megalomaniac project.

00:09:54.000 And so it's so important that consumers, that's why we've launched this campaign.

00:09:58.000 That's why we are out there educating consumers.

00:10:00.000 They are going to try to blame the weather.

00:10:03.000 They're going to try to blame the Ukrainian war.

00:10:05.000 They're going to try to blame whatever they can.

00:10:07.000 Don't let them fool you.

00:10:08.000 Let me tell you who's responsible for a good portion of the inflation you're seeing from the gas pump to the grocery store.

00:10:13.000 It's Larry Fink.

00:10:14.000 BlackRock and the other asset manager.

00:10:16.000 I want to talk about Larry Fink.

00:10:16.000 That's important.

00:10:17.000 People have to know who this man is.

00:10:19.000 He's uncomfortable at times being exposed, but he is able to deploy more muscle when it comes to making corporations to bow to his will in a very creepy, subservient way than anybody else.

00:10:33.000 He has more power than the king of Saudi Arabia when it comes to American corporations.

00:10:39.000 And we're going to walk through that.

00:10:40.000 Check out consumersresearch.org.

00:10:42.000 It's a fabulous organization.

00:10:43.000 You will learn a lot.

00:10:47.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:11:48.000 Before we go further into ESG, let me just say, I think the world of Patrick Mahomes.

00:11:52.000 I think he's one of the best athletes of a generation.

00:11:55.000 He is fabulous.

00:11:57.000 And I was looking at the game.

00:11:59.000 I was cheering for the Bengals.

00:12:00.000 I was.

00:12:00.000 I love Joe Burrow.

00:12:03.000 But the referees last, that's unacceptable.

00:12:06.000 Now, I have a contrarian take on this.

00:12:09.000 Some people say, Charlie, come on.

00:12:11.000 It was obviously unnecessary roughness and he was out of bounds.

00:12:16.000 Yes.

00:12:17.000 However, it is a fact that therefore a penalty decided the end outcome.

00:12:24.000 I don't love that.

00:12:26.000 And some of you say, well, come on, Charlie, the rule should always apply.

00:12:29.000 It was tight.

00:12:31.000 Was it, is that really the spirit of the rule?

00:12:34.000 Is you push somebody when they have one foot out of bounds and you are barnstorming across the field as quickly as you possibly can?

00:12:42.000 I watched that play five, seven, 10 times.

00:12:45.000 And not to mention the play that happened earlier that did, of course, actually result inconsequentially, where the ref just kind of blows off the play and no one listens to him and then they do a redo.

00:12:55.000 Never seen anything like that ever.

00:13:00.000 All right.

00:13:02.000 People say, well, Charlie, it was a penalty.

00:13:04.000 It was a foul.

00:13:06.000 It's tight.

00:13:08.000 You let a whole game be decided on a guy that runs all the way across the field and barely pushes the franchise tag quarterback.

00:13:18.000 After the referees already had a lot of suspicious behavior.

00:13:22.000 And I say this as a fan.

00:13:26.000 And you might say, Charlie, what's your agenda?

00:13:27.000 I just wanted an overtime game.

00:13:29.000 I wanted drama.

00:13:31.000 I wanted the most high-stakes game that you could have.

00:13:36.000 I wanted overtime.

00:13:36.000 That's my agenda.

00:13:38.000 Similar to Chiefs' bills last year.

00:13:40.000 Okay.

00:13:40.000 Will Hild is with us.

00:13:41.000 Will, who is Larry Fink and why should we care about him?

00:13:45.000 Certainly.

00:13:45.000 Well, Larry Fink is the CEO of BlackRock.

00:13:47.000 BlackRock is the largest asset manager in the world.

00:13:51.000 Before the market downturn, it managed over $10 trillion in money.

00:13:55.000 And again, that's state, local, federal pension funds that makes up that.

00:13:58.000 As you mentioned, university endowments, public university endowments are managed sometimes by BlackRock.

00:14:03.000 Our nation's military pension fund is managed by BlackRock.

00:14:06.000 So they have an immense amount of power.

00:14:07.000 Larry has an immense amount of power, not because of his own net worth, which is still substantial.

00:14:11.000 Don't get me wrong.

00:14:12.000 I would love to have his money.

00:14:13.000 But that is not where his power comes from.

00:14:15.000 His power comes from being a fiduciary, meaning people have given him money to steward for them.

00:14:21.000 Governments have given, your government has given them money to steward for you.

00:14:25.000 And what they're doing with it is using it to push a political agenda.

00:14:29.000 And so Larry Fink is deciding to use this power to try and then effectuate social change.

00:14:37.000 Exactly.

00:14:38.000 So he goes and imagine, let's do a concrete thought experiment here.

00:14:41.000 Imagine you're a Fortune 500 CEO.

00:14:44.000 You're the CEO of Exxon.

00:14:46.000 And Larry or one of his ombudsmen comes and visits you.

00:14:49.000 And they say, listen, we currently control about 8% to 9% of the shares of your company.

00:14:54.000 We're your largest single shareholder. 0.64

00:14:57.000 And we'd like you to, you know, put a woman on your board or put someone on the board because of the color of their skin.

00:15:03.000 We'd like you to declare that you're going to follow a net zero target for the Paris Accords, like 2050, net zero carbon emissions.

00:15:10.000 It is very hard to say no to that person.

00:15:12.000 It's very hard to say no to Larry Fink at that point because he can replace board members.

00:15:16.000 He can vote against you in shareholder proposals.

00:15:18.000 He could even get you fired.

00:15:20.000 So he has an immense amount of power.

00:15:21.000 And it's across the entire, it's not just one company.

00:15:24.000 We're talking about the largest companies in America over and over and over again.

00:15:28.000 And so that's, you know, you want to one of the reasons we've seen such a huge increase in woke capitalism, as we call it, right?

00:15:34.000 All these, all these companies, you know, alienating themselves from their consumers, doing weird things with their mascots, you know, pontificating on election integrity legislation in Georgia and Texas a couple of years ago.

00:15:46.000 Why are they doing that?

00:15:47.000 Larry think and BlackRock is a huge reason why.

00:15:50.000 They may be the number one reason why.

00:15:52.000 And they're probably the most powerful company the average person has never heard of.

00:15:55.000 And that's why we launched this initiative to make sure that consumers understand how their own state's money is being used to undermine their interests.

00:16:03.000 Walk our audience through your website, consumerswithansresearch.org.

00:16:07.000 Absolutely.

00:16:08.000 Consumersresearch.org, consumersresearch.org.

00:16:12.000 You can go on there.

00:16:12.000 You can find out more about the ESG scam.

00:16:15.000 You can find out what you can do and push back.

00:16:17.000 And of course, you can donate to the efforts.

00:16:18.000 We are running a multi-million dollar ongoing ad campaign against BlackRock to say, no, enough is enough to educate consumers and to educate elected officials that they need to do something.

00:16:27.000 And they are taking action.

00:16:28.000 Will, thank you so much.

00:16:29.000 Love partnering with you.

00:16:30.000 Appreciate it.

00:16:30.000 Thank you.

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00:17:10.000 Heather McDonald joins us now.

00:17:12.000 She has a new book you guys can pre-order starting February 6th of When Race Trumps Merit, How the Pursuit of Equity Sacrifices Excellence, Destroys Beauty, and Threatens Lives.

00:17:24.000 What a wonderful title.

00:17:25.000 Heather, welcome back to the program.

00:17:27.000 It's wonderful being with you, Charlie.

00:17:29.000 Thank you for having me on.

00:17:31.000 So, Heather, how should we think about the George Floyd 2.0 that wasn't?

00:17:37.000 It seemed as if the media was ready for another explosion in Memphis.

00:17:41.000 In fact, the New York Times had dispatched 11 reporters to Memphis alone.

00:17:47.000 How should we think about what happened in Memphis?

00:17:51.000 Well, the official narrative about this is it was because the cops were charged so quickly, although that now is being viewed as an act of racism on the part by Benjamin Crump, the ubiquitous civil rights attorney and other race activists.

00:18:06.000 So you can't win either way.

00:18:07.000 But I think the more likely reason is that even though we weren't told this as long as possible, these were black cops, not white cops.

00:18:16.000 If there had been five white cops engaged in this utterly abysmal display of police brutality and incompetence, I think cities would probably be smoldering still today. 0.91

00:18:30.000 So in a remarkable tweet, freshman House Democrat Maxwell Frost tweeted out, the murder of Tyree Nichols, and I don't know if I mispronounced the name, is anti-black and the result of white supremacy. 0.91

00:18:44.000 So Heather, they're blaming this on white supremacy.

00:18:46.000 Help me understand that.

00:18:49.000 Yes, what we've learned through this, Charlie, is that racism is by now a fully unfalsifiable proposition.

00:18:56.000 The first one out of the gate with this new expanded definition of racism was Van Jones for CNN that said, sort of, now you're telling us, Van, thanks a lot.

00:19:07.000 Well, we were wrong to focus on white on black police violence all along.

00:19:12.000 That was way too narrow a perspective.

00:19:15.000 Now it turns out the definition of racism is defined exclusively by the victim.

00:19:21.000 Anything bad that happens to a black victim is by definition racism, according to Van Jones.

00:19:28.000 And that idea has been picked up and made so widespread, it's really quite extraordinary.

00:19:36.000 Even the fact, as I say, according to the New York Times, that these five black officers were indicted so quickly is itself a factor or a result of racism.

00:19:50.000 If they end up getting put in prison, that's going to be just increasing mass incarceration and racism.

00:19:57.000 So there is simply nothing that will ever be viewed through the lens of individual behavior and personal responsibility and not as a way to simply slander the American polity.

00:20:11.000 White supremacy, when they say it, it works kind of like a conspiracy theory, like an actual conspiracy theory.

00:20:17.000 It explains everything.

00:20:18.000 It can never be disproven and it's always completely hidden.

00:20:22.000 It's like, oh, it's just white supremacy and no matter what it is.

00:20:24.000 So the Oxford educated cable news host wants us to believe that he's oppressed.

00:20:29.000 This guy, Mendy Hassan, or Mehdi Hassan, he responds to the Memphis shooting by says, look, I'm a person of color and absolutely is racism because if not, I wouldn't be able to get into Oxford Play Cut 11.

00:20:41.000 It takes race off the table?

00:20:44.000 No.

00:20:45.000 What? 0.97

00:20:46.000 Just because the officers who assaulted him were black. 0.97

00:20:48.000 I mean, the idea that black cops can't be racist towards other black people on the street, in school, at traffic stops must come as a huge surprise to millions of black people in this country who've had to deal with black cops. 0.92

00:21:02.000 The idea that black and brown people can't internalize white supremacist tropes, narratives, ways of seeing the world is something that I, as a brown man, I'm telling you, is just patently untrue.

00:21:13.000 Heather, your reaction?

00:21:15.000 Well, you know, this Oxford-educated poor oppressed minority should know the previous academic definition of racism, which is by definition blacks cannot be racist because the definition of racism was privilege. 0.83

00:21:30.000 And even though we've seen the videos of blacks brutally beating up whites, brutally beating up Asians out of undoubtedly a very large component of race hatred, we were told, oh, nothing to see here, folks.

00:21:44.000 This can't possibly be racism. 0.96

00:21:46.000 This can't possibly be racism.

00:21:48.000 Al Sharpton's diatribes against Jews and diamond sellers, the hatred of Korean shopkeepers. 0.97

00:21:56.000 Oh, blacks can't be racism. 0.95

00:21:58.000 So now that we have five black cops beating up a black driver, possibly somebody who was speeding down the wrong street, in order to preserve the ubiquitous racism explains everything narrative, we now have to be able to fold blacks into the racist perpetrator category. 0.95

00:22:20.000 The only upside to this whole sordid response and this tragic event would be if, in fact, the definition of racism gets so big that the rest of the country just rebels against it and says, we're not going to put up with this any longer. 0.88

00:22:36.000 This is completely absurd.

00:22:38.000 No doubt.

00:22:39.000 I mean, the rules are really hard to follow. 0.93

00:22:41.000 So if five white people kill a white person, is that also racism then? 0.97

00:22:46.000 Basically, are they using racism as a filler term for just being awful? 0.98

00:22:52.000 Is that basically now the new filler term? 0.98

00:22:55.000 No, it has to be against a black victim. 0.93

00:22:57.000 But if we now learn that blacks can be, if according to Van Jones and other activists, if something bad happens to a black person, that's racism. 0.98

00:23:05.000 Well, then maybe we can also say that the black on black violence is racist. 0.96

00:23:10.000 Maybe that will get the attention of the Black Lives Matter activists because this parallel narrative, of course, that was not dislodged for one second by this incident, which is that the police are the greatest threats to blacks.

00:23:26.000 We heard Biden echoing this both before and after the videos of the Memphis beating were released, that this just shows the trauma that Blacks and grief and harm and sorrow and pain and suffering they put up with every day.

00:23:41.000 Biden would be right in saying that if he was referring to black on black killings, there's several dozen blacks who are killed in homicides every single day. 0.99

00:23:52.000 That's more than all white and Hispanic homicide victims combined, even though Blacks are only 13% of the population. 0.97

00:24:00.000 And they're being killed not by the police, not by whites, but by other Blacks. 0.99

00:24:06.000 So, you know, that's the problem. 0.99

00:24:09.000 Police are not the problem.

00:24:10.000 Police are the solution.

00:24:12.000 Yes.

00:24:13.000 But that's, you know, this is not going to change that narrative either.

00:24:16.000 And we have, as we're already seeing, this massive overcorrection of Memphis disbanding the anti-crime unit, the scorpion unit that these officers were from, rather than looking at training, rather than looking at hiring standards, we're once again saying, oh, it's something systemic about policing that's to blame.

00:24:37.000 And of course, the real systemic issue for most people on the left, including Biden, is race.

00:24:44.000 For years, I've been told by activists that Blacks commit, they don't commit more crimes, but the reason they might and the statistics is because there's more police in their neighborhood. 1.00

00:24:53.000 It's the exact opposite of a way to view it. 0.98

00:24:55.000 There's more police in your neighborhoods because blacks commit more crimes, period. 1.00

00:25:00.000 It's like, you know, we always hear about, well, riots are caused by the police showing up in riot gear and that causes everybody to riot. 0.95

00:25:07.000 No, it's, as you say, it's the exact opposite causality.

00:25:11.000 The reason the police are there in riot gear is you guys are rioting.

00:25:15.000 If you don't want the police in riot gear, how's about you stay home and or protest peacefully and don't start throwing Molotov cocktails at police precincts?

00:25:25.000 Yep.

00:25:26.000 Yes, I mean, we've got an independent test of this thesis that, oh, crime is just an epiphenomenon of police presence, which is homicide statistics.

00:25:36.000 The bodies don't lie.

00:25:38.000 Homicide statistics standard.

00:25:41.000 And blacks between the ages of 10 and 24 die of gun homicide at 25 times the rate of whites between the ages of 10 and 24.

00:25:50.000 That's not because the police are in neighborhoods counting black gun homicide victims and ignoring white gun homicide victims. 0.75

00:26:00.000 To the contrary, you know, the media is blatantly racist.

00:26:05.000 The media ignore black homicide victims, but they do get up in blathers upon occasion at white homicide victims like the girl that was abducted or killed by her boyfriend in the national park.

00:26:20.000 For once, Joy Reed was right.

00:26:22.000 We do have missing white girl syndrome, but we won't talk about black homicide victims because doing so, if one were honest and giving the complete picture, would mean talking about black homicide perpetrators, and that is completely taboo.

00:26:38.000 You know, it's interesting.

00:26:40.000 They will say that police cause crime.

00:26:42.000 We actually have a controlled piece of evidence to show that's not true.

00:26:46.000 Remember Chaz?

00:26:47.000 There were no police for a couple blocks for a period of time, and two people were murdered, and crime was everywhere.

00:26:53.000 There was no police.

00:26:54.000 So you have your little Paris commune isolated, controlled experiment, right?

00:26:59.000 You guys could go back into the state of romantic nature that Rousseau wrongly wrote about.

00:27:05.000 Okay, we are stripped of our patriarchal socioeconomic conditions.

00:27:10.000 We can live, you know, in the John Lennon society.

00:27:12.000 It turns out we end up murdering one another.

00:27:14.000 Give me your thoughts.

00:27:15.000 We had that true in George Floyd Square.

00:27:17.000 Yes.

00:27:18.000 We've had a big, big controlled experiment with post-George Floyd depolicing and the Ferguson effect.

00:27:25.000 Police back off. 0.69

00:27:26.000 Black lives are taken. 1.00

00:27:27.000 It's as easy as that. 0.99

00:27:29.000 And the Chaz example was tragic. 0.99

00:27:29.000 Yeah. 0.99

00:27:31.000 If I remember correctly, it was a minor that was murdered there and no one cared.

00:27:34.000 I don't even know if anyone was arrested.

00:27:36.000 I didn't follow it, unfortunately, afterwards.

00:27:38.000 But I mean, Chaz was what they always wanted, which was an autonomous, self-sustainable, no police.

00:27:44.000 We could do whatever we want.

00:27:45.000 Not to mention the rapes and the drug use and all of that.

00:27:48.000 But there were two people that were murdered in just a short period of time, not exactly entering, re-entering into the Garden of Eden that they always tell us.

00:27:56.000 We get rid of police.

00:27:56.000 We'll get back into, you know, our beautiful state of nature.

00:28:00.000 Yeah, that's it's the exact opposite.

00:28:01.000 It will be a state of nature, all right.

00:28:03.000 Not exactly what you think.

00:28:04.000 It'll be much more Hobbesian than Rousseauian.

00:28:08.000 Heather, tell us about your book.

00:28:10.000 Well, the book is sort of a perfect, coming out of the perfect time for this moment, because what we see is when you lower standards, you get mediocrity.

00:28:20.000 You also endanger lives.

00:28:23.000 And we are lowering standards in every institution in this country in the name of fighting so-called disparate impact and in the name of promoting diversity.

00:28:34.000 Well, you can have diversity or you can have meritocracy.

00:28:37.000 You can't have both.

00:28:38.000 And so I'm giving the actual facts that explain why we do not have so far proportional representation in our institutions, whether it's at Google or in the prison system.

00:28:52.000 We have underrepresented minorities, above all blacks, underrepresented in meritocratic institutions and overrepresented in prison. 0.97

00:29:01.000 Now, I'm not saying anything about any individual.

00:29:05.000 There's individuals from all races that are at the top of performance levels and at the bottom of performance levels. 0.95

00:29:14.000 But on average, we do have very large academic skills gaps and we have very large crime commission gaps.

00:29:22.000 Those are much stronger explanations for the lack of proportional representation in medical schools, in medical research labs, in hospitals, in ER rooms, in classical music orchestras, in museums, and in prison than racism.

00:29:42.000 But currently, the only allowable explanation for any kind of racial disparity is racism.

00:29:48.000 That's it.

00:29:48.000 And as long as racism is the only allowable explanation for racial disparities, the left wins.

00:29:55.000 And they are tearing down every institution in the name of fighting what is in fact phantom racism.

00:30:03.000 This is not a racist country.

00:30:05.000 It was before.

00:30:06.000 It is not today.

00:30:08.000 But we are determined to tear it down in order to fight something that is absolutely an optical illusion.

00:30:15.000 I encourage everyone to check out Heather's book when it's available for pre-order, but also the previous book, Diversity Delusion, which I think was really ahead of the curve, predicting so many of the disturbing trends we've seen. 1.00

00:30:28.000 It's diversity delusion. 0.92

00:30:29.000 That one is available.

00:30:30.000 You guys could check it out.

00:30:31.000 Great audio book as well.

00:30:32.000 But Heather, what I find interesting, and you're going to have to help me understand this, and we're going to have you back on the program to promote your book once it's available, is the people that are most aggressively pushing this new racial regime are ones that would never put up with it in their own personal lives.

00:30:46.000 These are high-income whites that would never put up with an incompetent hiring scenario in their business, on their private jets, whether it be running their own home or estate.

00:30:59.000 They would never put up with it.

00:31:01.000 Yet they are ideologically pushing this on lower income people to say, you're going to have to deal with it.

00:31:06.000 For example, people that live in Beverly Hills or Malibu or in Greenwich, Connecticut.

00:31:12.000 Okay, fine.

00:31:12.000 They'll get on their Gulf Stream and fly down to Palm Beach, but they're going to want to make sure their pilots were hired for competency.

00:31:17.000 When they go in for heart surgery, they're not going to care the color of their skin.

00:31:20.000 But for lower income people, you guys better get used to race over merit.

00:31:24.000 Help me understand that.

00:31:26.000 Well, yes and no.

00:31:28.000 And I thought you were going to say what is one of the most weird features is that leaders of important and groundbreaking traditions and institutions are willing to turn on their own institutions and accuse them of phantom racism.

00:31:45.000 So you have college presidents presiding over what used to be great institutions saying, oh, woe is me, we're so racist, and implicitly accusing their own faculty of being racist, which is preposterous.

00:31:58.000 These are liberal institutions.

00:32:00.000 You have heads of art museums saying the Western tradition, 5,000 years of art, is racist because there weren't black sculptors in 5th century BC Athens.

00:32:11.000 Well, there were no blacks in 5th century BC Athens, but they're willing to tell people, they're willing to tell young people coming to museums for the first time, see this collection through the lens of racial exclusion, which is poison. 0.55

00:32:26.000 Classical music heads are also saying, oh, the reason that there were no black composers in 15th century Flanders is racism.

00:32:35.000 No, that demographically, Europe was white until the 20th century.

00:32:40.000 So that is heartbreaking.

00:32:41.000 But yes, up to a point, you're right that the elite white perpetrators of racial preferences, when it comes to their own immediate lives, do expect that merit will triumph. 0.56

00:32:56.000 On the other hand, for their own institutions, corporations are mandating that managers get promoted based on their own hiring of blacks and promotion of blacks and are setting just preposterous hiring standards that can't possibly be met. 0.81

00:33:18.000 And to just close the point, show me anything from the third world that is as beautiful as Beethoven's Fifth.

00:33:23.000 You can't.

00:33:24.000 Some things are more beautiful than others.

00:33:25.000 Heather, thank you so much.

00:33:29.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:33:30.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:33:33.000 Thank you so much for listening and God bless.

00:33:38.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk. com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 31, 2023

When Race Trumps Merit with Heather Mac Donald and Will Hild

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