The Charlie Kirk Show - July 26, 2020


When Should Christians Rebel with Rob McCoy


Episode Stats


Length

34 minutes

Words per minute

181.63823

Word count

6,209

Sentence count

576

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

40

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Pastor Rob McCoy shares his story of growing up in a Christian home in the 1960s and 1970s in California. Pastor Rob talks about how he went from a religious home to a Christian church, and how he became a leader in the anti-racist, anti-bigotry movement known as "Black Lives Matter."

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Thank you for listening to this Podcast 1 production.
00:00:02.000 Now available on Apple Podcasts, Podcast 1, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts.
00:00:08.000 Hey, everybody.
00:00:08.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, we have a special Sunday message with my pastor, Pastor Rob McCoy.
00:00:13.000 To Christians out there, but also, is your life lacking meaning?
00:00:19.000 Are you wondering why you should even continue on this experience called life?
00:00:24.000 We've got a lot of emails of people like that.
00:00:25.000 Well, I highly encourage you to listen to this podcast.
00:00:29.000 And I think you'll be able to derive a lot of benefit from it.
00:00:31.000 I want to thank those of you that help keep our podcast on the weekends advertiser free by going to charliekirk.com slash support.
00:00:37.000 It's charliekirk.com slash support.
00:00:39.000 Please become a monthly supporter at charliekirk.com slash support.
00:00:43.000 Email us your thoughts at freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:00:48.000 And please consider getting involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.
00:00:53.000 Special Sunday message for you.
00:00:55.000 You're going to love it.
00:00:56.000 Pastor Rob McCoy is here.
00:00:57.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:58.000 Here we go.
00:01:00.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:01:01.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:01:03.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:01:07.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:01:10.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:01:11.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:01:12.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:21.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:29.000 That's why we are here.
00:01:31.000 Hey, everybody.
00:01:32.000 Welcome to this special episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, which will also be, let's say, simulcast on our live stream for Godspeak.
00:01:39.000 So let's say hi to everybody.
00:01:41.000 So this will be an episode on the Charlie Kirk Show and Godspeak live stream Godspeak.
00:01:45.000 Yeah, and exciting because we're getting a lot of folks tuning in.
00:01:49.000 And being in Phoenix, the chance was I wasn't going to be able to do this, but you made it possible and all the folks are stoked.
00:01:55.000 Every time you're on, readings go through the roof.
00:01:57.000 So thank you.
00:01:58.000 I don't know about that.
00:02:00.000 I'm a member of your church, technically.
00:02:02.000 You are.
00:02:03.000 So I finally found a church that fights.
00:02:05.000 So California, they're closing down again.
00:02:08.000 They are.
00:02:09.000 Gavin Newsom, give us the update.
00:02:10.000 So Governor Nussalini is now.
00:02:15.000 So he was saying that we couldn't sing and we could only have 100 people or 25%, which was whatever was left.
00:02:23.000 You could go to church, but you can't sing.
00:02:24.000 And you couldn't have more than 100 people.
00:02:27.000 And you had to wear masks and practice social distancing.
00:02:30.000 And so they work hard to do that.
00:02:33.000 And then he does the edict of saying for a minimum of three weeks, there will be no houses of worship permitted to meet inside.
00:02:41.000 Shut it all down.
00:02:43.000 And have you been obeying that command?
00:02:46.000 No.
00:02:47.000 You've been open fully.
00:02:49.000 Yep, fully open.
00:02:50.000 We didn't obey the social distancing.
00:02:53.000 Now, let me correct that.
00:02:55.000 As you know, we did Palm Sunday communion.
00:02:58.000 That was outrageously over the top.
00:03:00.000 Yeah.
00:03:00.000 So our sanctuary holds about 500 people.
00:03:03.000 We had 10 chairs.
00:03:04.000 And press came out, media as though we were killing everybody.
00:03:08.000 And it was cleaner than any other place in all of California.
00:03:14.000 And our point was, you've declared us non-essential, but you allow cannabis distributors and liquor stores and strip clubs in New York.
00:03:22.000 Although he doesn't have jurisdiction over that, it's just a nationwide democracy.
00:03:27.000 So we declared, especially in our Holy Week, that this was critical.
00:03:30.000 And communion is a sacrament to us.
00:03:33.000 So we practiced it.
00:03:34.000 We practiced CDC standards, social distancing.
00:03:36.000 We did everything necessary.
00:03:37.000 We didn't know the data on the virus, and we were following all protocols.
00:03:42.000 And it was the way we were, to the press's credit, they treated it fairly.
00:03:47.000 They showed that we were going all out.
00:03:50.000 And then when the governor did the social distancing mandate, we abided by that for one reason. 0.76
00:03:57.000 Our sheriff is a good guy, and they were having to send officers into Los Angeles because that's when the Black Lives Matter riots were occurring.
00:04:05.000 And so they were undermanned. 0.97
00:04:07.000 And the last thing they needed was all the folks calling in with complaints, wanting to send officers out to shut us down.
00:04:12.000 And I told the sheriff, I said, You don't have to worry about us.
00:04:14.000 We'll be following protocols.
00:04:16.000 But then when the governor came out and quoted saying, God bless you to the Black Lives Matter protesters and empowered them and didn't enforce any of the rules for them, hundreds of thousands of people rioting.
00:04:30.000 It was over.
00:04:30.000 That was it.
00:04:33.000 You have no leg to stand on to shut the churches, but permit that.
00:04:37.000 Look, you're actually a fighter.
00:04:39.000 You actually stand and fight.
00:04:41.000 Amen.
00:04:43.000 The Apostle Paul says, stand fast, therefore, in the liberty for which Christ has set you free.
00:04:47.000 So some Christians that I communicate with, they say, I can't rebel against government because of Romans 13.
00:04:55.000 First, tell us what Romans 13 is.
00:04:57.000 Romans 13, unless you had another question.
00:05:00.000 And then just tell us why that is incorrectly applied to the United States of America.
00:05:04.000 Sure.
00:05:04.000 So Romans 13, we can read it in its entirety, but just from the top of my mind, you're to respect all positions of authority.
00:05:11.000 They're appointed by God.
00:05:12.000 And that is our calling.
00:05:14.000 The Apostle Paul writes that in Romans 13, that these authorities are appointed by God and we're to respect that.
00:05:20.000 And then it goes on to say that they don't carry the sword in vain.
00:05:24.000 They're ministers of justice to execute wrath on those who would do evil.
00:05:27.000 So they carry this authority.
00:05:30.000 And I read that just like any other pastor does, and I'm in full agreement with it.
00:05:34.000 But where the pastors in America don't realize, because we've abdicated our responsibility in the public square and we haven't embraced nor educated ourselves on the gift we've been given of a constitutional republic, when reading Romans 13, and it speaks of the authority, pastors don't realize that that authority is already outlined in the first three words of the preamble of the Constitution.
00:05:54.000 We the people, we the people, we the people are the authority in America.
00:06:00.000 And legislators govern by our consent.
00:06:03.000 Who was the authority when Paul wrote that?
00:06:05.000 Nero.
00:06:06.000 He was a less than desirable emperor.
00:06:08.000 Less than desirable emperor.
00:06:10.000 But however, the misunderstanding of that is they said Nero was burning Christians at the stake.
00:06:16.000 Well, he did later in his age.
00:06:17.000 Not at the moment.
00:06:18.000 Not when Paul wrote that. 0.99
00:06:20.000 He was very open to allowing Jews to once again obtain property.
00:06:24.000 Christians were permitted to assemble.
00:06:26.000 He had just stepped into office.
00:06:27.000 Christianity was kind of a fringe religion.
00:06:30.000 Exactly.
00:06:31.000 At the time.
00:06:33.000 These sort of religions, I shouldn't say traditions of Judaism were popping up, nothing close to Christianity eventually, but the Romans didn't take it that seriously at the writings of Paul's letter to the Romans.
00:06:47.000 And I believe he actually hadn't even visited Rome when he actually wrote the letter.
00:06:50.000 Yeah.
00:06:51.000 Well, no, Paul had, I don't think he had made it to Rome.
00:06:54.000 That's what I'm saying.
00:06:55.000 Yeah, he had been there.
00:06:56.000 So he couldn't even comprehensively have understood.
00:07:00.000 Thank you.
00:07:02.000 The weight of Roman rule there.
00:07:05.000 And Nero wasn't even the Nero that we know now, which fiddled when Rome burned.
00:07:09.000 And Paul, Paul appreciated his Roman citizenship and appealed by his Roman citizenship.
00:07:14.000 So he understood government. 0.96
00:07:16.000 But what's interesting is we have the Jews that three to five million of them end up in the wilderness.
00:07:22.000 They put the law in the center of their community.
00:07:24.000 400 years without 430 years after Abraham was saved by grace, which is outlined in Romans.
00:07:30.000 And he believed God was accredited him as righteousness.
00:07:33.000 430 years later, they give the law.
00:07:34.000 They put the law in the center of the community.
00:07:36.000 When Paul, excuse me, when Moses comes down Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments and Aaron and everybody is having a party and they've got rave music and it's bumping.
00:07:43.000 Golden calf, right?
00:07:44.000 Golden calf. 0.85
00:07:44.000 Golden calf. 0.85
00:07:45.000 Rave music.
00:07:46.000 Yeah.
00:07:48.000 Anyways, he comes down and sets them straight and brings this moral law, this moral knowledge, becomes the center of the community.
00:07:55.000 Stop doing that.
00:07:56.000 First five commandments, relationship with God, second five commandments, relationship with each other.
00:08:00.000 As they implement that in the culture, for 40 years, three to five million people lived together without a police force or standing army because they had moral knowledge.
00:08:10.000 That's the critical component.
00:08:12.000 And then Jethro says to Moses, you can't do all this.
00:08:15.000 So he appoints godly men who are not covetous, who fear the Lord, over thousands, hundreds, fifties, tens.
00:08:20.000 That's where you get federal, state, county, local government, representative form of government.
00:08:24.000 Are you trying to say that these ideas just didn't come out of that they're actually tried before?
00:08:28.000 Well, even the three branches of government come out of Isaiah.
00:08:32.000 God is our king, our lawgiver, and our judge, executive, legislative, judicial.
00:08:36.000 And the founders were godly Bible-believing men.
00:08:39.000 Absolutely.
00:08:40.000 And anyone who says otherwise hasn't done their homework.
00:08:42.000 Are Christians meant to be pacifists?
00:08:45.000 No. 0.98
00:08:45.000 Why? 0.98
00:08:46.000 We're contending.
00:08:47.000 Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, but a sword.
00:08:50.000 And peace isn't the absence of conflict or the absence of danger.
00:08:54.000 Peace is the presence of Christ in the midst of it.
00:08:57.000 So anyone who says that we're not supposed to rebel against authorities, I just have one question for pastors out there.
00:09:03.000 Was Rosa Parks supposed to get to the back of the bus?
00:09:07.000 Pausing for emphasis. 1.00
00:09:10.000 Answer that. 0.99
00:09:11.000 For all those out there who have your Black Lives Matter tiles, was Rosa Parks supposed to get to the back of the bus? 0.99
00:09:15.000 Yes or no? 1.00
00:09:17.000 They would probably say she did the right thing.
00:09:19.000 She did do the right thing.
00:09:20.000 Absolutely.
00:09:21.000 And so did Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King.
00:09:22.000 He did the right thing.
00:09:23.000 So did our founders.
00:09:24.000 They did the right thing.
00:09:26.000 Government was given by God in the Noahic covenant for the preservation of what is the Noah covenant.
00:09:32.000 Noahic covenant is where you see Noah and God speaks of capital punishment.
00:09:36.000 He goes through a list of these things.
00:09:37.000 It's the first time you have civil laws established with one of the patriarchs. 0.74
00:09:42.000 This was prior to Abraham.
00:09:43.000 Yeah, this was prior to Abraham.
00:09:44.000 He comes off the ark.
00:09:45.000 God lays it out.
00:09:46.000 So we start to operate in that capacity.
00:09:49.000 And God designs government.
00:09:52.000 He gives us the law.
00:09:53.000 And the law is simply how do we live together? 1.00
00:09:56.000 But now Christians have relegated the law because we're so we've caused the gospel to be truncated and myopic where we say, this is the purpose of the church. 0.98
00:10:06.000 I preach the gospel. 0.95
00:10:07.000 I preach the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
00:10:10.000 In Ephesians, you've been saved by grace through faith.
00:10:12.000 It's a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
00:10:15.000 If you believe in your heart, confess with your tongue, Jesus is Lord.
00:10:17.000 You will be saved to the glory of the Father.
00:10:19.000 So if you've done that, could you raise your hand?
00:10:20.000 I see your hand.
00:10:20.000 God bless you.
00:10:21.000 Boom, my job's done.
00:10:23.000 Now, he does say not make converts, but make disciples.
00:10:25.000 And then they go on to teach them, you know, different aspects of Christianity and justification, sanctification. 0.92
00:10:32.000 But the problem is, Christians don't know what to do with the law.
00:10:35.000 They say, bro, we're saved by grace. 0.98
00:10:37.000 We don't need the law.
00:10:37.000 The law is only there to show us we can't keep it so that we need grace.
00:10:40.000 No, no.
00:10:42.000 That's a part of it.
00:10:43.000 And the law doesn't save.
00:10:44.000 I agree.
00:10:45.000 I'm not arguing that.
00:10:47.000 But if Abraham believed God and it was accredited to him as righteousness, and the same thing applies in Ephesians chapter 2, why 430 years later would God give the law?
00:10:57.000 He gave the law so that we could live together.
00:11:01.000 How do we dwell together?
00:11:02.000 As Francis Schaefer in his book said, how then shall we now live?
00:11:07.000 And they lived together for 40 years without a police force or a standing army because they know you don't steal, you don't lie, you don't covet.
00:11:14.000 And they self-regulated, right?
00:11:15.000 And they self-regulate it.
00:11:16.000 So when someone comes to me and says, well, socialism is closer to the gospel than capitalism or a constitutional republic, I go, wait a minute.
00:11:25.000 Socialism is a violation of two of the Ten Commandments.
00:11:27.000 Thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not covet.
00:11:30.000 And that's right there in the Levitical law, in the Ten Commandments, the Decalogue.
00:11:37.000 So when God gives this law, he does it so we can dwell together.
00:11:41.000 And then Paul goes on to write in Galatians, and I love this because you are so gifted in applying this.
00:11:48.000 And I don't know that a lot of pastors across the country understand the role God's given you.
00:11:54.000 Galatians 3 points out, why then do we have the law?
00:11:57.000 And Paul eloquently says the law, Galatians 3, 20, I think it is, Paul eloquently says the law is a guardian, a school teacher, to point us to Christ and to keep us safe until faith comes.
00:12:14.000 And then when faith comes, you're no longer under the law.
00:12:17.000 You're governed by love, by grace.
00:12:20.000 You don't do it because you have to.
00:12:21.000 You do it because you want to.
00:12:23.000 But in society, laws are there, whether you like it or not.
00:12:27.000 You have to obey this.
00:12:28.000 But those laws point you to Christ.
00:12:30.000 As our founder said, the laws of nature and nature is God.
00:12:32.000 It doesn't matter if you're an agnostic or an atheist or a Christian.
00:12:36.000 You're still bound by the natural law of gravity.
00:12:40.000 There's an order to the universe.
00:12:43.000 And so our founders understood that.
00:12:45.000 They didn't force religion onto people, but they did declare that we are under a creator and there is an absolute natural and moral law that we are to abide by.
00:12:55.000 So when is it the right time or the wrong time for Christians to rebel against authority? 0.83
00:13:01.000 That's a good one.
00:13:02.000 So as our founder said, not by light or transient causes.
00:13:06.000 You don't just say, you know, I'm throwing off these restraints.
00:13:09.000 I don't want to pay taxes or I don't want to do this or I don't want to do that.
00:13:12.000 Understood.
00:13:13.000 It's real simple for me.
00:13:15.000 Anyone wants to get in the way of my relationship with God and stifle that in a constitutional republic that gives us the First Amendment, that is a constitutional protection, and I'll go through that more later.
00:13:28.000 You better have really good reason.
00:13:29.000 And for us as a church, we yielded to the requests of the governor during a pandemic, not knowing the full details of the virus itself or how tenacious it was.
00:13:40.000 And so we yielded willingly as a wife submits to her husband, not because she has to, but because she wants to and she willingly does.
00:13:48.000 That's what the church did in relation to the governor.
00:13:50.000 You can't force me to do that, but I'm willingly doing it for the sake of the community.
00:13:55.000 Now when we have the empirical data and we know that this virus has a 99.8% survival rate.
00:14:02.000 And it's probably going to go even in the better direction as more people just ask that.
00:14:06.000 In 45 and under, it's zero.
00:14:08.000 But of course, we just see all the skewed numbers.
00:14:10.000 And then you start getting censorship and they start messing with the data.
00:14:14.000 At that point, you realize this has nothing to do with the safety and the health of the community.
00:14:19.000 You are stifling religious freedom and you don't have that authority.
00:14:24.000 We're going back to what we've been given by those in authority, submitting to Romans 13 by our religious liberty, that nothing comes in the way of us worshiping God, period.
00:14:24.000 We're done now.
00:14:37.000 So if we were...
00:14:40.000 So how do you interpret Romans 13 if you live in China?
00:14:43.000 Yeah.
00:14:45.000 So in China, they're trying to stay alive.
00:14:49.000 And you do your best.
00:14:52.000 And it's one of those things that we rise and fall before.
00:14:54.000 You understand the example.
00:14:55.000 I do.
00:14:55.000 China, North Korea, Iran.
00:14:57.000 You rise and fall before one master. 0.71
00:14:57.000 I got it. 0.71
00:14:59.000 That's the Lord. 0.63
00:15:00.000 So when the Apostle Paul is contending with Rome and Rome has its literal knee on the neck of Christians and a third of the Roman Empire is slaves.
00:15:10.000 And just like the three to five million Jews who are enslaved in Egypt, they cry out because liberty is intrinsic in every human heart.
00:15:16.000 So the Apostle Paul declares in the book of Galatians, chapter 5, stand fast, therefore, in the liberty for which Christ has set you free.
00:15:24.000 He wrote that from prison.
00:15:26.000 He's still contending with government.
00:15:28.000 He would contend with the government on the island of Cyprus.
00:15:31.000 He would contend with the government in Rome.
00:15:34.000 He would contend with the government in Ephesus.
00:15:36.000 He was always contending for the liberty of mankind and the freedom for them to have an open, abiding relationship with the Lord.
00:15:43.000 Now, it's going to come at a cost.
00:15:45.000 Paul's imprisoned.
00:15:46.000 But the amazing thing about the early church, especially in Acts 5 and 6, is that when they were told to shut up and not preach the gospel and then threatened, and then after they were threatened, they were beaten.
00:15:58.000 And after they were beaten, they plotted to kill them.
00:16:00.000 And they ultimately stoned Stephen. 0.99
00:16:01.000 And Paul was the one who condoned it and held the cloaks and then went on to pursue to kill Christians. 0.71
00:16:09.000 They didn't waver.
00:16:11.000 Even under that threat, they went back and they said to God, look on their threats.
00:16:16.000 Don't silence them.
00:16:18.000 But God, give us a greater boldness to proclaim this truth because you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free.
00:16:24.000 It boils down to this, the Imago Day.
00:16:26.000 We're created in the image of God.
00:16:28.000 And laws are established, the wise restraints that make men free.
00:16:32.000 As we restrain towards evil, we have the ability to pursue excellence.
00:16:36.000 And we want us to experience the fullness for what God created us to enjoy.
00:16:41.000 And if we're subject to those things that enslave us, whether it's drugs or alcohol or sexual deviance or any of those things, a society grows great when it allows its citizens to have the freedom to pursue excellence.
00:16:55.000 But if they think that freedom is everyone having equal, then you have stifled the creativity of mankind.
00:17:03.000 And all of us are walking around as automatons, dressing the same, and it is just misery.
00:17:10.000 It divides wealth and divides happiness to the point where no one has any of it.
00:17:15.000 God never intended that.
00:17:17.000 Even capitalism is scriptural.
00:17:20.000 You've eloquently defended that in a profound way.
00:17:23.000 I think about what I don't.
00:17:28.000 Romans 13, I read a little bit differently.
00:17:31.000 And I also, I just come from the broader reading that Christ and Christians should not tolerate tyranny or the exploitation of the innocent in any form.
00:17:45.000 And so that's why I struggle at times with Romans 13 and any reading of it, because I just don't think the CCP is a legitimate government.
00:17:51.000 No, it's not.
00:17:52.000 And so I think it's perfectly Christian and acceptable to rebel against the CCP.
00:17:57.000 And with that.
00:17:58.000 And it might become in conflict with Romans 13, but it won't.
00:18:02.000 God is in the business of setting the captives free.
00:18:05.000 It will come at a cost. 0.68
00:18:07.000 So who am I to judge another man's servant?
00:18:09.000 If I look at my brother in China who has to choose the hills that they're going to die on, and they're meeting in churches that are underground, they're not meeting in those churches and underground because they're fearful and lack faith.
00:18:22.000 They are counting the cost to see, is the return on investment to live another day?
00:18:27.000 And every day they're having to make those choices and decisions.
00:18:30.000 I think, I mean, based on what Christ called us to do and the early church, I think there is, putting Romans 13 aside, a continual pattern of fighting for free expression, for liberty.
00:18:45.000 And also, as Bill Federer says, most important thing you can do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
00:18:51.000 The second most important thing is make sure you could do the first thing.
00:18:54.000 Right.
00:18:54.000 Protect the government that protects the preaching of that gospel.
00:18:56.000 So I don't think it is in the best interest of the kingdom or Christianity or for what is moral, what is good, and what is true to allow tyrants to rule.
00:19:04.000 Absolutely.
00:19:05.000 Anyone who wants to slay...
00:19:06.000 Reinhoffer would agree with that.
00:19:07.000 He would totally agree. 0.94
00:19:09.000 And try to put that into a Google and come up with an answer where you have an evangelical minister plotting to assassinate Hitler. 0.94
00:19:18.000 Hitler.
00:19:18.000 And he said it was perfectly consistent with the Bible.
00:19:21.000 But what he also said was, that's my calling.
00:19:24.000 I don't expect anyone to understand that.
00:19:28.000 But he labored over that because if he could put a wrench in the spokes of that machinery and stop the slaughter of what would ultimately be over 6 million Jews and countless others throughout the world, he would do it.
00:19:42.000 And God would commend that.
00:19:44.000 And this pacifist idea that we don't confront evil or stand in opposition to it is just not biblical.
00:19:50.000 I'm sorry.
00:19:51.000 So if it's okay, let's get into some theological questions.
00:19:55.000 We've never had a chance to do this on the podcast before.
00:19:58.000 Are you a Calvinist?
00:19:59.000 No.
00:20:00.000 So explain what a Calvinist is.
00:20:03.000 A Calvinist, a simple way to do it, although Calvinists would probably struggle over it, understanding.
00:20:08.000 And by the way, Calvinists are my brothers.
00:20:10.000 I love them.
00:20:10.000 Brothers and sisters.
00:20:11.000 I bring this up because I got recently.
00:20:13.000 I understand.
00:20:14.000 I get it too.
00:20:16.000 So there's an acronym called Tulip that gives you an idea of what Calvinism is.
00:20:21.000 T is total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and preservation of the saints.
00:20:27.000 And some people say I'm a four-point Calvinist.
00:20:30.000 Others say I'm a five-point Calvinist.
00:20:32.000 And in that succession.
00:20:33.000 In that succession.
00:20:34.000 So Calvin started, he had an attorney's mind.
00:20:37.000 He started with the idea that he's actually working backwards, preservation of the saints.
00:20:41.000 How do you get to that place of being preserved as a saint?
00:20:45.000 And so eternal life?
00:20:46.000 Or does he mean how do you become one of the redeemed?
00:20:49.000 Or the elect.
00:20:50.000 The elect.
00:20:51.000 So he works backwards.
00:20:53.000 He starts with a premise, this is preservation of the saints.
00:20:56.000 And so if we have total depravity, it has to begin, all of us are depraved.
00:21:00.000 There's none righteous, no, not one, for all have sinned, fallen short of the glory of God.
00:21:03.000 I'm in on that one.
00:21:04.000 Unconditional election.
00:21:06.000 God chooses whom he chooses.
00:21:07.000 Jacob I loved, Esau, I hated. 0.72
00:21:09.000 He can pick anyone he wants because we're all totally depraved.
00:21:12.000 Now, if he picks certain ones and doesn't pick others, then Jesus' death on the cross wasn't for all the world's sin, as it says in John 3:16, for God so loved the world that he was where I struggle.
00:21:22.000 And rightfully so.
00:21:24.000 So his death on the cross, the atoning death, was limited only to those he chose by unconditional election.
00:21:33.000 And limited atonement.
00:21:35.000 So how does he get them then to come to Christ if we're all sinners?
00:21:39.000 Irresistible grace.
00:21:41.000 He imputes that to us, so we're drawn to him.
00:21:44.000 So we have no choice in the matter.
00:21:46.000 He takes it completely out of man's hands and puts it into God's hands.
00:21:49.000 And I understand that because he's dealing with a church in Rome that was selling indulgences, and he just, he wanted to make purity of the gospel and put it in the sovereign hands of God.
00:21:58.000 Fair enough.
00:22:00.000 I'm not an Arminius.
00:22:02.000 I'm not a Calvinist.
00:22:04.000 I am what I consider myself to be a biblicist.
00:22:06.000 And I'm sure there's theologians out there far more educated that would obliterate me and put me in a category.
00:22:12.000 I'm a simple.
00:22:13.000 I don't like all these subcategories anyway.
00:22:16.000 And that's all right.
00:22:16.000 I know who I am, and I know what I do.
00:22:19.000 I don't believe in limited atonement.
00:22:21.000 I don't believe the scripture speaks to limited atonement.
00:22:23.000 I do believe God's completely sovereign.
00:22:25.000 And then the question is: how can God be sovereign and man have a choice?
00:22:29.000 I have no idea.
00:22:30.000 I don't know how to explain a God who's beyond space and time, who's omniscient, to a temporal mind.
00:22:43.000 I can't even explain the Trinity, how God can be one and be three and speak to himself and answer himself, but he's still one.
00:22:49.000 And he's three different persons, but he's one God.
00:22:52.000 I can't even give an earthly illustration for that.
00:22:54.000 But the scriptures speak to it.
00:22:56.000 And my life has testified to it.
00:22:58.000 And I've seen that God is relational and I love the Godhead.
00:23:02.000 So it's man's attempt to try to take a sovereign God, retain the sovereignty, and then thinking, well, how can man have a free will?
00:23:11.000 But yet God has given us the ability to choose.
00:23:13.000 Love is a choice.
00:23:14.000 So that's where I've come to a conclusion on that.
00:23:18.000 I went through the Calvinist phase.
00:23:19.000 I went through the Arminius phase.
00:23:20.000 What's Arminiast?
00:23:21.000 Arminian is this. 0.97
00:23:23.000 Not Armenia. 1.00
00:23:24.000 No, not Armenian. 1.00
00:23:25.000 One is a.
00:23:27.000 I had a pastor friend who was just a precious brother.
00:23:30.000 He said, Arminian is a superior theology, and he was also Armenian.
00:23:33.000 And he said, Armenian is a superior ethnicity. 0.99
00:23:35.000 That's funny. 1.00
00:23:36.000 Yeah, it was. 1.00
00:23:37.000 Don't tell the Turks.
00:23:38.000 Yeah, absolutely.
00:23:39.000 Although there's some godly Turks out there that would, they love Armenians. 0.96
00:23:44.000 So Arminian is more of looking at the free will of man and it limits the sovereignty of God. 0.91
00:23:51.000 And those are the two camps.
00:23:52.000 I'm in the middle.
00:23:54.000 Got it.
00:23:54.000 Yeah.
00:23:55.000 So there's a growing, I think, frustration in the church now. 0.82
00:24:00.000 And a lot of Christians email me and email us at freedom at charliekirk.com to say, what do I do if my pastor is engaging in this nonsense, BLM Inc., the racial disunity? 0.74
00:24:12.000 What should they do? 0.75
00:24:12.000 Yeah, vote with your feet. 0.75
00:24:14.000 Leave. 0.99
00:24:15.000 Leave.
00:24:16.000 I would appeal.
00:24:18.000 I would be patient and long-suffering.
00:24:20.000 I would contend for the truth.
00:24:23.000 I would pray for him.
00:24:25.000 I would seek to inspire him.
00:24:27.000 I would educate him.
00:24:30.000 I would do all those things.
00:24:33.000 You brought up Calvinism, and I like this because it's a good illustration.
00:24:38.000 Calvary chapels are not Calvinist, but they love, Calvinists love our worship and they love our evangelistic approach.
00:24:44.000 We've had 10,000% growth since 1968.
00:24:47.000 We're all about evangelism.
00:24:48.000 Greg Laurie started with the Calvary Chapels.
00:24:50.000 I think he's now affiliated with the Baptists, but he would do the Harvest Crusades. 0.72
00:24:56.000 So we're all about evangelism.
00:24:58.000 Calvinists, there's really, you can't go up and say to somebody as a real true five-point Calvinist, you can't say God loves you because that's not true.
00:25:06.000 You may not be one of the chosen.
00:25:08.000 And by the way, when the scripture says in Romans, Jacob I loved, Esau I hated, that was written in Romans.
00:25:13.000 That was after Jacob and Esau died.
00:25:15.000 And the Bible says it's appointed once for man to die, then judgment.
00:25:17.000 Paul could write that, but it wasn't declared in the Old Testament.
00:25:24.000 So the idea to be able to say to someone, God loves you, you can't say that as a Calvinist.
00:25:28.000 So it makes it difficult for evangelism and Calvinism.
00:25:32.000 It's kind of heady.
00:25:33.000 It's a hard sell.
00:25:36.000 It's difficult.
00:25:37.000 It's like being a Republican.
00:25:40.000 It requires logic.
00:25:42.000 So they'll come to our church and I'll say, look, if you're Calvinist, I'm thrilled you're here.
00:25:47.000 But we're not.
00:25:49.000 And we're not interested in being Calvinists.
00:25:52.000 But worship, enjoy it.
00:25:54.000 Know that we're going to teach the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book.
00:25:58.000 Stay with us.
00:25:59.000 But I'm not interested in dividing the church.
00:26:02.000 You know what we're about.
00:26:04.000 And they, oh, praise the Lord, brother, we're not going to do that.
00:26:06.000 Every single time I've had an issue, not every single time.
00:26:08.000 There's some Calvinists out there.
00:26:10.000 They keep to their word.
00:26:12.000 But inevitably, over the 20-plus years of ministry, that's been a struggle.
00:26:16.000 And I say that because folks who bring in this Trojan horse and then they want to go with their agenda.
00:26:28.000 And that's troublesome because that's what we're facing right now in the church.
00:26:34.000 I don't want the people that are confronting their pastor to drive an agenda with a pastor who already has a direction.
00:26:41.000 Either agree to disagree and remain with him and endeavor to keep the union of the spirit in the bond of peace or quietly leave and go start something else.
00:26:50.000 Yes.
00:26:51.000 Because that pastor may not be a fighter, may not be called to that capacity, but the bride of Christ, the church is a multifaceted diamond.
00:27:04.000 And we all have a different facet on that.
00:27:06.000 Yeah, I'm a fighter.
00:27:07.000 That's my facet. 1.00
00:27:10.000 But don't divide the bride.
00:27:14.000 Don't attack the church.
00:27:15.000 Now, granted, if it's heretical, granted, like in the book of Acts where you have Ananias and Sapphira, you need to point out those who are deceptive.
00:27:27.000 You have to mark those who cause division and have nothing to do with them, the scripture says.
00:27:31.000 So that's important in a church.
00:27:34.000 And then if Satan can't attack the church from the outside, he tries to infiltrate it with deception on the inside.
00:27:40.000 And if he can't do that, he tries to divide the church.
00:27:42.000 And he does that, as you see in Acts chapter 6, with the Hellenists and the Hebrews contending over the lack of care for the Hellenistic widows. 0.68
00:27:52.000 And in that case, you know, God creates race. 0.77
00:27:58.000 He also creates ethnicity.
00:28:00.000 And when they decided and they prayed to resolve this issue, the first thing they looked for were godly men who rightly divided the word of truth, who were filled with the spirit of the Lord.
00:28:14.000 And you would think that's all that's necessary because we don't want to look at the color of the skin, but the content of the character.
00:28:18.000 Well, they also looked at the color of the skin because they appointed the men who oversaw the distribution to the widows. 0.75
00:28:27.000 They were all Hellenists.
00:28:28.000 They all had Greek names. 1.00
00:28:31.000 These Hebrews yielded to the Hellenists. 0.99
00:28:34.000 It's to a man's benefit to overlook an offense if it's within your ability to serve someone, do it. 1.00
00:28:39.000 And they did that.
00:28:41.000 So there's mending that's required, but the enemy is going to try to divide us by the color of our skin and our socioeconomic status.
00:28:48.000 It's the Hegelian dialectic where you divide and conquer.
00:28:52.000 The church must endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
00:28:55.000 Long answer, but I'll close it with this.
00:29:00.000 If you're in a church and you have appealed to your pastor and you've found resistance and no yielding, and he has made it abundantly clear that he is not yielding, you quietly leave and vote with your feet.
00:29:19.000 Don't attack him on your way out.
00:29:21.000 Don't dump on them on the way out.
00:29:23.000 Leave.
00:29:26.000 And when you leave, go to serve.
00:29:29.000 But endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
00:29:32.000 Does that help?
00:29:33.000 Very much.
00:29:33.000 So in closing, there's a lot of young people that listen to this podcast that email me and they say, Charlie, I'm a Christian.
00:29:38.000 Thanks to what you're talking about.
00:29:41.000 Amen.
00:29:41.000 You bless so many people, Charlie.
00:29:42.000 It's awesome.
00:29:43.000 It is.
00:29:43.000 So there's new listeners all the time that listen.
00:29:46.000 In some episodes, they come back and forth.
00:29:48.000 There's some people that are saying, Charlie, I'm losing meaning in my life all this.
00:29:54.000 Can you help just talk about why should people become a Christian?
00:29:59.000 Why should anyone become a Christian? 0.64
00:30:00.000 Amen. 0.99
00:30:01.000 Because there's probably one human being listening to this right now that needs to hear this.
00:30:05.000 Amen.
00:30:07.000 So in California, we're contending with a loss of liberty in a way I've never experienced in 55 years on this earth.
00:30:15.000 The churches seem to be the last to awaken to the need to defend liberty.
00:30:20.000 The ones who are defending the liberty are the surfers and the skateboarders because they're losing their beaches and their skate parks.
00:30:26.000 They're not churchgoers.
00:30:28.000 And I would even venture to say they're not even conservative in their political beliefs.
00:30:33.000 But they've lost liberty.
00:30:36.000 And now they start to want to know what is liberty and why do I have these freedoms?
00:30:40.000 And these questions start to arise for their generation and hope for the future.
00:30:44.000 What's it all about?
00:30:45.000 And these enormous questions arise.
00:30:49.000 And I love this.
00:30:50.000 Abraham Lincoln never professed membership to a church and we don't have any evidence that he was ever baptized.
00:30:57.000 And his dying words in Ford's Theater on April 14th, 1865, the last words he ever spoke confirmed by the curator of the Lincoln Library.
00:31:08.000 And Mary Todd Lincoln herself, he leans into her and he says, I long to, when this is all over, the Civil War, I want to walk with you in the footsteps of our Savior in Jerusalem.
00:31:15.000 And then John Wilkes Booth shot him.
00:31:18.000 This backwoods, Kentucky boy who had never had a formal education, had been drinking from the streams of liberty his whole life and longed to come to its source.
00:31:27.000 And for those young people out there, you've been awakened to liberty.
00:31:31.000 And the reason why you have this hunger in your heart is because liberty is not man's idea.
00:31:36.000 It's God's idea.
00:31:37.000 And he's awakened you.
00:31:39.000 And Charlie, you, of all the people, you hate compliments.
00:31:43.000 And that's because there's humility.
00:31:44.000 And it's not a false humility.
00:31:46.000 But you got to endure it right now.
00:31:50.000 You have awakened and been used as an instrument of the Lord to awaken these young folks to this gift of liberty, to give them a hope in a generation that has been stifled and has been told that the world's going to end any minute now.
00:32:07.000 It's an awful existence.
00:32:08.000 It's an awful existence.
00:32:10.000 And you've laid out principles that have awakened them and caused them to hunger.
00:32:14.000 And now, like Abraham Lincoln, they want to come to the source.
00:32:17.000 And I say to those folks out there, come.
00:32:20.000 Jesus says, come to me, all you are burdened and heavy laden.
00:32:23.000 I'll give you rest.
00:32:24.000 My yoke is easy.
00:32:25.000 My burden is light.
00:32:26.000 He takes away fear and he gives you faith and he gives you a hope that this life is passing, but you're contending for ideals that will live long after you're off this earth.
00:32:39.000 And what awaits you is what you've always longed for.
00:32:44.000 The fulfillment of what God designed you to be, created in his image, with this ability to flourish with all the unique giftings you've had.
00:32:54.000 It is a calling, Charlie, that God has used for you to awaken these young people.
00:32:58.000 And I want to tell them you're on the right path.
00:33:01.000 And any way I can help with that, I'm here.
00:33:03.000 Well, it's the most important thing a human being can do.
00:33:06.000 Amen.
00:33:07.000 It's awesome.
00:33:07.000 Be reconciled to your Creator.
00:33:08.000 You're on this earth.
00:33:09.000 Point A, which is birth, to point B, which is death.
00:33:11.000 On the tombstone, there's a dash.
00:33:13.000 That's your life.
00:33:13.000 And you're here for one reason, to be reconciled to God.
00:33:16.000 Amen.
00:33:17.000 And he's ready to reconcile you.
00:33:18.000 He loves you.
00:33:19.000 Well, everyone can subscribe to the Charlie Kirk Show by typing in Charlie Kirk Show to your podcast provider.
00:33:23.000 Hit subscribe.
00:33:24.000 Any other final thoughts?
00:33:25.000 Rob underscore McCoy underscore is my thing at Instagram.
00:33:29.000 Instead, Instagram.
00:33:30.000 Yeah.
00:33:30.000 And every time, Charlie, I had like 300 followers.
00:33:32.000 Is that right?
00:33:32.000 Yeah, now I'm like approaching 3,000 overnight.
00:33:35.000 I think we had something to do with that.
00:33:37.000 You think?
00:33:38.000 I'm such not a social media guy, but if I can help with any way with any of those folks out there, I keep dabs on the Instagram.
00:33:45.000 Yeah.
00:33:45.000 Thanks, Rob.
00:33:46.000 God bless.
00:33:46.000 God bless you too, Charlie.
00:33:54.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:33:56.000 Again, please support our program at CharlieKirk.com slash support.
00:33:59.000 CharlieKirk.com slash support.
00:34:01.000 Email us your thoughts at freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:34:04.000 Get involved with TurningPointUSA at tpusa.com, tpusa.com.
00:34:09.000 Thank you guys so much for listening.
00:34:10.000 God bless.