00:00:01.000Alan Dershowitz joins us for a very clear episode on Israel.
00:00:05.000Also, are we living through the great divestment?
00:00:08.000You'll see what I mean throughout this episode.
00:00:10.000Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and become a member, charliekirk.com, and click on the members tab, charliekirk.com, click on the members tab to listen to our episodes advertiser free.
00:00:22.000That's right, advertiser free, charliekirk.com, and click on the members tab.
00:00:26.000Get involved with TurningPointUSA today at tpusa.com.
00:00:52.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:00:59.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:32.000We talk all about how college has become a scam, 10-count indictment.
00:01:36.000And one of the chapters in The College Scam is about the hatred that starts on university campuses.
00:01:46.000When I wrote The College Scam and I was about to publish it, you know, one of our team members said, Charlie, are you sure it's wise to be that blunt and that direct?
00:01:55.000First of all, we run a college-based organization.
00:01:57.000But secondly, you know, we have to raise capital from donors that are pretty connected to universities.
00:02:06.000The way it works is that if you typically, typically, if you have a lot of resources, a lot of money in America, you are probably attached to some university because you feel obligated to give back to the university that gave you so much.
00:02:20.000You look at it as a way that potentially maybe for good cultural camaraderie, whatever it is, right?
00:02:27.000It's almost a one-to-one that if you are in high society, there is some form of a university or college that you sit on a board of that you give generously back to.
00:02:36.000Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Dartmouth, Stanford, Berkeley, whatever it is.
00:02:41.000And I learned this as I started to raise money at Turning Point USA.
00:02:44.000And here I was trying to raise capital to basically launch a counter narrative against the universities to organize students to talk about pro-American, pro-liberty, pro-freedom ideas.
00:02:56.000And as I first got started and I started traveling campuses, I realized that these university campuses are the incubators of anti-Americanism, the worst ideas.
00:03:04.000We call it wokeism, whatever it is, Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism.
00:03:08.000The universities are one of the reasons why we're losing our country.
00:03:11.000Colleges are the place where you send your best and brightest to learn to hate themselves, hate the country, rebel against their parents, be turned into ungrateful activists, to then become moldable AOCs, Rashida Talib's, Elon Omars, where they're resentful, bitter, angry, driven by revenge and bad ideology.
00:03:32.000And I go through in the book, The College Scam, how the trans idea started on universities.
00:03:37.000Literally, this whole idea of transgender is from the academy.
00:03:42.000One of the most sick and demented and evil, quote-unquote, thinkers in the 20th century, Mr. Kinsey, has an entire center dedicated to him at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana.
00:03:55.000Herbert Marcuse, who wrote One Dimensional Man is kind of the leader of the new left, who discipled Angela Davis, universities.
00:04:03.000Bill Ayers, who was a terrorist, university professor.
00:04:05.000Kimberly Crenshaw, university professor.
00:04:30.000So higher education, not is just, it's not only the starting point of the worst ideas, movements, ideologies, but it's also a landing pad for some of the most despicable human beings our society and civilization has to offer.
00:04:47.000Anthony Fauci should be in prison for what he did to this country.
00:04:50.000Instead, he's lecturing at Georgetown and treated as a hero.
00:04:55.000And so as I published this book, it wasn't necessarily met with hostility, but certainly skepticism.
00:05:03.000And one community in particular, and they were really sweet about it, were upper middle class, center-right Jews that would give money to Harvard, Princeton, Penn, Yale.
00:05:14.000Understand that in Jewish culture, education is taken very seriously.
00:05:18.000It's one of the reasons why Jews do very well.
00:05:21.000Understanding the law, reading the law.
00:05:23.000One of the parts of Jewish culture is that if you go to a Jewish dinner, a Seder, Passover Seder, a Shabbat dinner, and you're a six-year-old, you have to prove your point.
00:06:01.000And it creates, honestly, a love of learning.
00:06:05.000And so education has always been a staple of Jewish culture, always.
00:06:10.000Now, what they call education, I call indoctrination and anti-Americanism.
00:06:14.000And upper middle class and elite Jewish culture have been one of the main funding sources of American elite colleges, especially in the modern era.
00:06:40.000You could fund Ukraine for a month with these endowments.
00:06:44.000And when I published the book, The College Scam, and I would get into really spirited discussions with some very well-intentioned, you know, center-right Jewish donors.
00:06:53.000And they'd say, come on, Charlie, higher education is bad, but it's not as bad as you say it is.
00:06:58.000And I would always say, you realize the Jew hatred that is going to erupt volcanically one day.
00:07:05.000They said, no, I don't think it's that bad.
00:07:08.000There might be some Muslim groups here or there, but it's not widespread.
00:07:13.000I said, okay, we'll just agree to disagree.
00:07:15.000I could tell you from personal experience, the Jew hatred, the American hatred, the anti-white sentiments that are bubbling up in these university campuses, one day it will manifest into something very, very real.
00:07:28.000Now, this could be connected to any issue that you're passionate about.
00:07:32.000Are you concerned that America has become less religious?
00:07:54.000All roads lead to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford.
00:07:56.000And they are also the feeding factory of the FBI, of Goldman Sachs, of Google, of the CIA, of the United Nations.
00:08:07.000While I bash colleges relentlessly, I also acknowledge and admit that if you can get the special card, the special ticket to the secret society, you're going to have an easier time climbing up elite circles.
00:08:25.000If you have a diploma from Harvard, you have a leg up, period.
00:08:29.000You're going to be treated differently.
00:08:45.000But there's, and by the way, the old joke is: how do you know someone who went to Harvard, they'll tell you in the first five minutes, they'll drop the H-bomb on you.
00:08:51.000Oh, yes, when I was at Harvard rowing, like, okay, pal, got it, thanks.
00:08:54.000But even at times, you know, you hear someone goes to the Ivy League school, you're like, okay, that you're kind of conditioned to treat them, not treat them differently, but take what they say more seriously, or there might be something to them.
00:09:23.000And unfortunately, it took a 9-11 style tragedy to get things to change.
00:09:29.000One of the reasons why we are losing Western civilization is because of higher education, period.
00:09:35.000And the funding mechanism for that have been elite Jewish donors that have been giving billions of dollars to subsidize what they think is great intentions, but is the downfall of the West.
00:09:50.000Included in that, though, and they've hit it for a while, is outright Jew hatred.
00:09:56.000And now that Jew hatred is not hiding any longer.
00:10:04.000And it's more clear than ever that university campuses are an ideological safe haven for Hamas, for the justification of killing Jews and destroying America.
00:10:15.000And finally, Jewish donors are revolting.
00:11:00.000And remember, retirement is about more than just investments.
00:11:03.000The Charlie Kirk endorsement of the PAX Financial Group LLC was given for compensation, which creates an incentive to recommend PAX's advisory services.
00:11:12.000Let me make sure that disclaimer is very clear.
00:11:19.000So there's this stream of money that goes to these university campuses.
00:11:24.000But finally, based on all of the pro-Hamas demonstrations of students that say this is wonderful that Jews were killed, they're saying that this was justified, that this is decolonization, this is liberation.
00:12:15.000There's a lot more than this, by the way.
00:12:16.000There's $100,000, $200,000 donors that are defecting in major numbers.
00:12:22.000And the essence of it is, again, how many times are we knowingly putting our money, our time, our treasure, our energy, our political power in a way that destabilizes our own country.
00:12:50.000You see, campus divestment, which needs to happen across the board, is an isolated example of finally a group stepping up and stopping their own suicide.
00:13:02.000Well, why doesn't the Oklahoma legislature get together and defund the University of Oklahoma, which is a breeding ground of anti-Americanism?
00:13:15.000I'm going next week to Missouri State University.
00:13:17.000And they got all sorts of Marxist, pro-Hamas demonstrations happening in Springfield, Missouri.
00:13:21.000This needs to be a widespread movement, and not just on the university side, but you need to look through everything through the lens of, am I participating in something that then makes the country I love, the values I share, less likely to continue to the next generation?
00:14:28.000And I hope that there isn't some sort of, you know, effort to bring them back and they soften all this.
00:14:34.000And honestly, these universities have done a deal with the devil for quite some time.
00:14:38.000Universities take significant Middle Eastern funding, significant Middle Eastern funding.
00:14:44.000You know, 15 million here and 20 million here.
00:14:48.000They've allowed the sons and daughters of the Middle Eastern oligarchs and theocratic dictators to come in and go to school at UPenn, Cornell, Princeton, Stanford.
00:15:33.000It's happening to foment the anti-white sentiment in this country.
00:15:37.000It's happening to breed outright anti-Americanism, a war against our free speech rights.
00:15:45.000It's a top-down revolution that is financed by elite circles.
00:15:51.000And my prayer is that out of this total tragedy, God will use evil for good.
00:15:55.000As he says in Genesis 50, 20, what the enemy meant for evil, God will use for good.
00:16:01.000And one good that can come out of this unthinkable savagery and horror is the West realizes that they have been underwriting this for years.
00:16:15.000They've been underwriting the ideological justification for that horror and the continuation of it.
00:16:21.000It needs to happen in every institution.
00:16:37.000We can make a difference standing for life by giving free ultrasounds with our friends at pre-born.
00:16:42.000In a Dobbs world, states decide about abortion, and so many liberal states are taking extreme stands, even allowing abortion up to literally the second before a baby is born.
00:16:53.000And in California, the demand for abortions has increased 400% in part because the state is inviting women and girls to come to California for the sole purpose of aborting their baby.
00:17:45.000Professor, I'm curious, were you even shocked at the response from some of these Harvard students?
00:17:50.000I mean, you know the community very well.
00:17:52.000You know, you've built a whole career there.
00:17:54.000Was this even, was this something where you were even surprised to see the outright Jew hatred gone public so quickly after a massacre of 1,300 Jews?
00:18:06.000When you propagandize young students for years, years and years and tell them that Jews are the privileged group and the Israelis are the colonialist settlers and you grade them down in class if they don't take that view.
00:18:22.000For example, I retired from Harvard 10 years ago.
00:18:26.000I have never been invited back to speak about Israel.
00:18:30.000Once a group wanted me to speak, but they told me I had to speak off the campus because they were afraid of violent reaction when I supported the two-state solution.
00:18:40.000I didn't support Hamas, obviously, that wants a one-state solution.
00:18:46.000All I want from Harvard is a single standard.
00:18:48.000I want to know what Harvard would do if a group of students signed a petition saying we support the bombing of a gay bar that occurred somewhere, or we support the bombing of a black church.
00:19:00.000It was the gays and the blacks who were at fault for them being bombed.
00:19:04.000I just want to know what President Gay of Harvard, what presidents of other schools would say if a group of students, 30 groups of students, wrote petitions blaming blacks for the bombing of black churches, blaming gays for the burning or the shooting into a gay bar.
00:19:23.000Whatever that standard is, I accept for Jews and for Israel.
00:19:27.000But I will not, and no donor to Harvard should accept a double standard that discriminates against Jews, against Zionists, against the state of Israel.
00:19:36.000So, Professor, we're starting to see a revolt amongst donors.
00:19:40.000And a significant amount of the donations that come to Ivy League schools are from obviously alumni, but also Jewish alumni, very generous.
00:19:47.000The Jewish community is incredibly generous.
00:19:50.000We're starting to see evidence that the Jewish community is saying no more.
00:19:53.000Do you think that Harvard and Penn, for example, are they past the point of redemption?
00:19:59.000Is it time to just cut it off, cut your losses, and say, we will no longer subsidize this outright Jew hatred?
00:20:06.000Well, I wouldn't subsidize it now, but I don't think they're beyond the point of redemption.
00:20:10.000I do think that they can have a reckoning.
00:20:12.000Remember, after one black man, George Floyd, was horribly murdered, one black man who had fentanyl in him, who was drunk and had a criminal record, one black man was killed.
00:20:21.000It caused a reckoning at Harvard, change of emission standards, change of curriculum, appointing dozens of diversity deans.
00:20:29.000Don't you think it's time for a reckoning at Harvard University about its anti-Semitism, by the way, which is 100 years old, anti-Jewish quotas, supporting the Nazis in the 1930s?
00:20:40.000Harvard has a major reckoning to do, and I will not send Harvard a single penny until it does that reckoning.
00:20:48.000And I have to tell you, I have gotten calls not only from Jewish donors, but from non-Jewish donors, friends of mine, former clients, others who are not Jewish, and they said not a penny to Harvard, not a penny to Yale, not a penny to New York City University.
00:21:03.000Let me talk about the worst university in the country, New York University, City University of New York Law School, which has become the propaganda arm of Hamas.
00:21:15.000It had a Hamas supporting speaker at his graduation.
00:21:18.000Its faculty voted unanimously, unanimously to boycott Israel and only Israel.
00:21:26.000Nobody should hire anybody who graduated from that law school unless you want your students, your clients, to be serviced by people who support rapists, who support lynchers.
00:21:39.000Again, this is comparable to the lynching of 3,000 black people in 100-year history of the South.
00:21:48.000More Jews were lynched on one day than in any 10-year period during the lynchings.
00:21:53.000And yet you have black leaders, Black Lives Matter, saying we support Hamas hand gliders coming in and murdering children.
00:22:00.000You have other black groups and black organizations.
00:22:03.000The head of the New York University Student Bar Association comes out that way.
00:22:10.000Fortunately, she lost her job at Winston-Strawn.
00:22:14.000Thank you, Winston-Strawn, for doing the right thing.
00:22:16.000You would not want any of her clients to be represented by somebody who supported rapists and beheaders and kidnappers.
00:22:23.000So we have to apply a single standard, and that's the university's major fault.
00:22:27.000It applies a double standard to progressive, woke, left racists and bigots, and a very, very different standard to democracies, including Israel and including Jews who are regarded as the privileged.
00:23:22.000It is a revolt among some students, 10% of the students, the racist bigots who Harvard willingly admits, knowing about their racism and bigotry.
00:23:31.000Way, they turn down students and they sometimes rescind admissions when people when students make anti-gay or anti-black or other anti-statements, but they welcome anti-Semites into the school.
00:23:45.000She fears the 10% who will boycott her office.
00:23:48.000She also doesn't believe that donations will be cut off.
00:23:51.000Remember, a lot of people donate to Harvard because it's a good thing to do and it gives you status and it maybe gets you on the board of overseers.
00:24:02.000I spoke last night to one of the largest contributors to universities in the history of America.
00:24:09.000And he's having real second thoughts about where his money is going.
00:24:14.000And a lot of these people are nearing the end of their lives and we're talking about their wills.
00:24:19.000And let me tell you, President Gay, you better have this reckoning now, or you're going to lose so much money in testamentary gifts and other gifts from people.
00:24:32.000We will not simply sit and accept a double standard against Jews.
00:24:37.000And you have to take a much stronger stand.
00:24:38.000Now, President Gay has been influenced.
00:24:40.000The first statement she made was an abomination.
00:24:43.000The second statement she made was wrong.
00:24:45.000The third statement she made was weak.
00:24:47.000And finally, she's made a fourth statement, which had it been the first statement, might have been acceptable, but isn't acceptable in the context.
00:24:55.000And we've had other universities that have said nothing.
00:24:58.000Now, I don't mind if the university does Chicago does and says we don't get involved in any of these events at all.
00:25:12.000But you can't have a double standard and say, we will stand on our heads to make sure that not a single black student is ever offended or a gay student is ever offended.
00:25:21.000But you can say whatever you want about Jews, whatever you want about Israel, whatever you want about Zionism.
00:25:26.000There's a different set of rules for Jews and for others.
00:25:32.000Larry Summers and I together have been part of Harvard for over 100 years.
00:25:37.000The Jewish professors at Harvard helped make the reputation of that university, along with others, non-Jewish professors who are appalled by what's going on.
00:25:49.000Don't be so chickenhearted and afraid of those 10% of students who you can never satisfy anyway, because what they are is anti-American, they're anti-Harvard in the end, they're anti-Western culture, and they're certainly anti-Semitic and anti-Israel.
00:26:05.000And, you know, that reckoning needs to happen.
00:26:07.000And talk also, Professor, that it's the 10% of the students, but also the students get ideological and intellectual air support from some of the faculty.
00:26:16.000And President Gay, yeah, tell us about that.
00:26:21.000It's only 10% of the students, but it's 25% of the faculty.
00:26:26.000And by the way, you talk about Jewish donors.
00:26:28.000Some of the worst offenders on the faculty and among the students are kids who were born of Jewish parents.
00:26:34.000They're self-hating Jews who are trying to prove that they're in, you know, the woke movement basically says, if you're Jewish and you want to become part of our woke progressive movement, we have a litmus test for you.
00:26:48.000Come out even more strongly against Israel than our non-Jewish students do.
00:26:52.000Then we'll be able to accept you as one of us.
00:26:57.000And so a lot of the leaders of this anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, anti-Jewish, anti-Israel posse are Jewish.
00:27:06.000And a lot of the faculty members are Jewish.
00:27:08.000A lot of them are hard, hard, hard left.
00:27:10.000They were people who would have supported communism in the 1930s and would support today socialist candidates for office.
00:27:20.000Remember, the Democratic Socialists of America are among the worst defenders.
00:27:24.000They came out strongly in favor of Hamas.
00:27:26.000They've always been in favor of Hamas.
00:27:28.000Hamas' main lawyer in New York, his name is Cohen.
00:27:32.000You know, again, he went to jail for tax evasion, but nonetheless, he's a self-hating Jew who actively supports Hamas and actively supports Hezbollah.
00:27:43.000I'm not talking about representing them.
00:27:44.000Anybody's entitled to have their constitutional rights defended.
00:27:48.000I'm talking about glorifying them, supporting them, giving them ideological support.
00:27:54.000And that's what some Jewish lawyers, some Jewish radicals, and even some Jewish donors are doing.
00:28:00.000But we have to make Harvard pay a price and other schools pay a price for its unwillingness to apply a single standard and to engage in the kind of reckoning with Jews that it did with blacks.
00:28:13.000Obviously, your most recent book is Get Trump.
00:28:14.000Can you plug one of your books so that you have published on this topic of Jew hatred and Israel?
00:28:20.000I think that would be really helpful for our audience.
00:29:16.000The book is The Case for Israel, if you are interested.
00:29:21.000So, Professor, there's increased chatter.
00:29:24.000You could see this: United Nations, the media, they're starting to turn on Israel.
00:29:27.000They're accusing Israel of potentially trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza, not giving ample time for humanitarian movement.
00:29:34.000Do the best you can to fill our audience in.
00:29:36.000What is the truth of what is going to happen, what is happening?
00:29:39.000The history of Gaza and Israel, and the false moral equivalency the media tries to make where now they're saying Israel is killing women and children indiscriminately.
00:29:49.000That is a narrative the media is starting to bubble up.
00:29:51.000Well, let's first talk for a minute just about Gaza.
00:29:54.000Gaza was, Gaza was, the occupation of Gaza ended completely in 2005.
00:30:01.000Not a single Israeli soldier or civilian remained.
00:30:04.000They left behind hot houses, farm equipment.
00:30:07.000European countries had turned Gaza into Singapore and the Mediterranean.
00:30:14.000The Hamas murdered the leaders of the Palestinian Authority, exiled the rest of them, took over the country, and started sending rockets into Israel.
00:30:23.000Obviously, Israel had to protect itself at that point.
00:30:26.000But take, for example, what happened today.
00:30:29.000Israel today warned the citizens of North Gaza, leave.
00:30:53.000Not only says to the people, don't leave, stay behind, become human shields, let your children die, but those who wanted to leave, Hamas has blocked the roads.
00:31:04.000And so, and the UN says, we can't do it, it's impossible, instead of offering to help.
00:31:10.000So Israel has done what other countries didn't do.
00:31:12.000The United States didn't warn before Hiroshima and Nagasaki or the firebombing of Tokyo.
00:31:18.000They didn't warn before the firebombing of Dresden.
00:31:21.000Israel is warning, is warning that people get out and they have an opportunity to get out.
00:31:27.000And many of them are refusing to do so, and others are being blocked from doing so from Hamas.
00:31:32.000So, let me tell you, every single child, tragically, every single woman who dies as the result of Israel's necessary invasion of North Gaza, every single one of them will be the responsibility of Hamas, of the United Nations, of others who have refused to accept Israel's act of warning, an act unique in military history.
00:31:55.000Professor, in closing here, you've done a lot of thinking about the geopolitics.
00:31:59.000Knowing what we know now as things develop over years and decades, what do you think is a best case solution, not even solution, but just remedy to this very complicated situation?
00:32:13.000It's a problem that's going to continue.
00:32:16.000What would you say if you were to advise the prime minister, you know this very, very well, how would you, what would a success look like given the tragedy and the confusion?
00:32:26.000Well, I sat with the prime minister for almost three hours the Friday night, 10 days before this happened.
00:32:31.000And obviously, we talked about that and other things.
00:32:34.000The optimum solution is to end Gaza, the Gaza Strip.
00:32:40.000The Gaza Strip should not exist as an independent standalone entity.
00:32:45.000It should either go to Egypt or it should be basically integrated.
00:32:51.000The population should be integrated into the West Bank or other areas.
00:32:56.000It cannot remain controlled by Hamas, which is not a country, but a terrorist organization.
00:33:03.000Israel then can talk about a kind of two-state solution.
00:33:08.000It will never be a state of the kind that the Palestinians like.
00:33:48.000But you can give their cities independence, but they cannot be trusted with an army, a navy, and rockets and any form of military hardware that can be used against Israel.
00:33:59.000They have to be completely and totally disarmed.
00:34:01.000We're out of time, but Professor, you and I both know that some of the leaders, like Abbas and others, I don't think they want to have a remedy.
00:34:08.000I think that constant conflict strengthens them because it would require them to actually govern their citizens, not just push hate, conflict, and jihad against the Jews.