Candace Flournoy has been in the news lately. She has been accused of being a coward, lying, and lying to her own audience. On the heels of this, Candace has been on the front page of the New York Times and the Washington Post, and her supporters have accused her of lying to the American people about what really happened. In this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, Charlie talks about this and much more.
00:00:56.000The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.
00:01:10.000So, Megan, you know what we're going to talk about here.
00:01:12.000It's, of course, the affordability crisis.
00:01:48.000And I wasn't at liberty to explain what you were doing behind the scenes.
00:01:53.000But I actually think I want to say thank you because there was very few people that could have filled that role that you were attempting to play.
00:02:00.000And you were holding your fire, even though your audience was like demanding you weigh in on certain things and you didn't.
00:02:05.000You were disciplined and professional.
00:02:07.000So I know exactly what you did and why you did it.
00:02:11.000And I want to vouch for you as a third party that understood why you were, you know, remaining out of the fray.
00:02:21.000Well, it's annoying to me to be attacked by people who don't know what they're talking about, right?
00:02:28.000So it's one thing if you have your doubts, like, why isn't she saying this about that or this about the other thing?
00:02:34.000And then maybe you reach out to me and say, is there another reason?
00:02:37.000Like, is there something I don't know?
00:02:39.000But to see people who I consider like long-term friends go out and publicly call me a coward when you, you and I both know how much we've talked behind the scenes about how to handle this problem.
00:03:39.000I've gotten to know her a little better over the past few months.
00:03:42.000So, but Erica really didn't want to do that.
00:03:44.000She thought it was important that it be like an in-person meeting and that she allow herself to be subjected to whatever questions Candice had.
00:03:53.000And she said, will you please be a part of that with me?
00:03:59.000And at that moment, I felt I was very lucky that I hadn't been leading attacks against Candace because, I mean, obviously I disagreed with her on all the things she said about you guys in Turning Point.
00:04:10.000And I said that on my show many times.
00:04:11.000I mean, I made very clear to everybody, I don't agree with these theories, and this is what I think happened, and all the evidence suggests it is this man and whatever.
00:04:20.000But I was very happy that I hadn't gone scorched earth on Candace Owens because I was in a position where I would have been acceptable to her.
00:04:29.000And sure enough, she and I had a text exchange shortly after mine with Erica where she was like, I'm glad it's you.
00:04:36.000And I just saw Erica backstage and she said, you can say whatever, you can tell everybody what's happened.
00:04:42.000But the original plan was that we were going to have a live stream on the day you guys were going to do the live stream in Arizona was the first plan.
00:04:53.000Erica, Candace, and yours truly as more of a facilitator.
00:04:59.000And I was going to be there just to keep everybody within the lines.
00:05:02.000And then Candace said she was facing a security threat out here in Arizona and that she couldn't, she wasn't going to come.
00:05:11.000And Erica said, I'll come to you, which I was surprised Erica said that, you know, because if Erica didn't really want to do this, she easily could have been like, okay, I offered.
00:05:22.000But she was like, no, I'll come to Nashville.
00:05:36.000And I will say to her credit, Candace actually wound up saying okay to that, though the live stream idea died.
00:05:42.000And they wound up deciding that they would just meet the two of them since they weren't going to put this out on the airwaves for public consumption, which was fine with me.
00:05:52.000And look, I mean, it's up to them to talk about, you know, what did and did not happen there.
00:05:56.000But the initial impression I think is fair to say from both women was that it went well and that it ended in a much better place than where it started.
00:06:19.000My only goal all along has been to try not to take sides in, not the turning point thing, but in the Israel battle that's happening in the conservative movement, such that I can make room for people who are upset with Israel and not fans of Israel's behavior and still, you know, have room for the people who are ardently pro-Israel, as I have been, as Charlie was for all those years.
00:06:43.000And then that morph, like it started off like an insistence that I condemn the people who are anti-Israel into an insistence that I condemn every single iteration of what they were saying forevermore.
00:06:54.000And then it felt too BLM-y for me, and I was like, I'm out.
00:06:58.000It reminds me of what Russell Brand said from stage, where he was just like, I'm so against authority.
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00:08:16.000And today, I want to point you to their podcast.
00:08:19.000It's called Culture and Christianity, the Allen Jackson Podcast.
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00:09:16.000I did notice a tweet that you put out about an hour and a half ago, whenever people watch this.
00:09:23.000So I don't know when that will be, but where you're talking about something that, and I said this backstage, I was like, that is exactly what Charlie would have said.
00:09:34.000And you said something about, you know, friends should pick up the phone and call you if they have a problem instead of sneak attack.
00:09:40.000And I didn't know exactly who you were directing that at, if it was Ben or Barry or both.
00:12:06.000It is very interesting when you look at the divisions on the right.
00:12:11.000And that's why I started this conversation by praising that you were trying to be a peacemaker, that you were trying to hold your fire, and you were actually trying to do the right thing where you were strategically doing something which people interpreted as cowardice.
00:12:24.000You were actually playing a long game to help bring peace to a situation that was pretty volatile.
00:12:29.000And that's why I want people to know that why you did what you did, why I did not personally take offense, why I was, you know, all that thing, all those things.
00:12:37.000And but the divisions are real, and they do tend to come down along this.
00:12:48.000I got a press inquiry going about the, we just celebrated one of the hostages on stage.
00:12:55.000And they were at the music festival 505 days in captivity.
00:13:00.000They're like, well, with all the Israel stuff, and I was like, wait, are you conflating a foreign policy debate with whether or not it's okay for somebody to be held hostage for 505 days?
00:13:09.000Why have we lost our ever loving minds about something?
00:13:44.000And, you know, this is some of what I'm going to talk about tonight, but I don't see it that way at all.
00:13:50.000I'm not, the people who are my enemy are the people who shot Charlie Kirk.
00:13:55.000It's the people who want all of us dead because we're at a turning point convention.
00:14:00.000It is not someone who doesn't like Israel or B.B. Netanyahu or even somebody who has some negative associations with not Jewish people writ large, but with the Jewish activists who are a bunch of bullies.
00:14:15.000I understand the criticism against them because I've been on the receiving end of it, notwithstanding the fact that I've never said one word against Israel.
00:15:28.000And I, and, you know, and I try and have a sensitivity for it, and I sympathize with it because, you know, just like you, I have been pro-Israel my whole life.
00:15:47.000I love like that my Lord and Savior walked there, you know, and that they are good stewards of a lot of those holy sites.
00:15:54.000But, you know, when you get to a point where you're like, your friends have gone through this traumatic situation, October 7th, you try and have sympathy for that and understand that it's been a traumatic experience.
00:16:05.000But, you know, we have to find a way through here, a third way through.
00:16:10.000And I think that's what Charlie was doing.
00:16:11.000He was trying to fight for a larger conversation that more people could feel a part of.
00:16:46.000I had said almost nothing about Israel.
00:16:48.000Literally, I'd gone on Piers Morgan and said, I think it's time to wrap it up for them because their approval rating is plummeting, like the popularity of Israel and Netanyahu in America.
00:17:12.000And they were very, very angry that I said at the Student Action Summit that Epstein, if he was being controlled by anybody, any sort of foreign intelligence service, it was probably Mossad.
00:17:31.000So it's like both of us were feeling, this is insane.
00:17:34.000Like if they'll do this to two ardent advocates who have been on their side openly and avowedly for two years now, since 10-7, not to mention before that, then they'll do this to anybody.
00:17:42.000And it really did cause me to start looking harder at some of the claims that they've been throwing out of anti-Semitic.
00:17:49.000And to your point, Andrew, I'm going to say something else.
00:18:24.000Have I been intolerant of people who have a different argument on this?
00:18:29.000And do I need to do some soul searching on my certainty about what white hat warriors they are?
00:18:34.000And I'm telling you, it is not Hamas or the Palestinian protesters on Columbia campus who got me to start thinking that way.
00:18:43.000It is the bullies who are trying to censor speech on our side about this issue.
00:18:50.000President Trump walked into a catch-22 when taking office.
00:18:53.000Do nothing, and America would be staring at a ticking debt bomb, the kind of crisis that could cripple our future.
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00:19:32.000Now, hear from Charlie in his own words.
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00:20:39.000But they just saw this as some sort of opportunity to attack Charlie and to use an attack that severe in such a cynical way was very rational.
00:20:48.000And then without looking at all at Charlie's prior history of supporting Israel.
00:21:06.0002024 at the RNC, these New York Times journalists have to pump out like six stories a day, eight, when they're used to doing like one a week, right?
00:21:15.000So they're not doing their normal fact checking.
00:21:18.000The New York Times, it was a Jewish writer out of Chicago.
00:21:20.000I forget his name actually off the top of my head, but he puts out a headline.
00:21:43.000And CNN Jake Tapper, they cut away from Charlie's speech.
00:21:46.000And Jake Tapper goes, well, puts out the New York Times article and goes, Charlie's long had a reputation and a history of vile anti-Semitism.
00:21:58.000And I'm on the phone going like, you know, and my job is to like yell at the reporter and like, you know, Dennis Prager and actually Mark Levin, God bless them both.
00:22:05.000They, they, I forced the New York Times to basically take their quotes and say this is BS and garbage.
00:22:11.000But the damage was done from three bad faith tweets to his 2024 RNC speech.
00:22:17.000And all of a sudden he's labeled as this.
00:22:18.000And he's like, what does a guy got to do to not be just like, you know, you know, labeled with the scarlet letter here?
00:22:24.000Yeah, no, it's the anatomy of a smear.
00:22:27.000But I like, look, I, this sounds so trite, but truly, almost all of my closest friends are Jewish.
00:22:34.000Just so, I mean, I've been living on the Upper West Side of Manhattan for the past 10 years.
00:22:38.000And I really believe that there is a serious objection even amongst a lot of Jewish Americans to the bullies.
00:22:45.000Because you could write an article like this.
00:22:48.000That's what you just told us is the anatomy of a smear.
00:22:51.000But you could write a similar article, the making of an anti-Semite, that would start with these bullies trying to censor, harass, misrepresent, strong arm.
00:23:04.000This is no way to get people over to your side.
00:23:15.000Not to mention American Jews, of whom I was extremely defensive.
00:23:18.000I wanted all those guys deported at Brown and Columbia, all these people who are visa holders out there protesting, globalized the intifada.
00:23:36.000If you didn't post it, then you're a racist.
00:23:39.000And there is an element of that with the identity politics of it all When we're discussing Israel, I mean, you remember Charlie's tweet that you that you put out, not his tweet, your internal message, the one that you gave to the FBI.
00:24:02.000Amber already revealed this a while ago.
00:24:04.000But, like, it, it said something like, and look, it wasn't perfectly phrased, but it said something like, these Jewish donors are behaving like so according to stereotype or something like that.
00:24:29.000Well, and there was a larger conversation that, you know, Charlie was toying with this idea of like, maybe we just were defending Western civilization.
00:25:24.000I just remember very shortly after I started with Charlie, I was telling him because he'd already had that the Groyper experience in 2019 where they would spam him.
00:25:33.000But I think he had compartmentalized that.
00:25:35.000And shortly after I started, I was telling him, Charlie, this is going to be coming.
00:25:39.000There's going to be a huge wave of more anti-overt anti-Semitism on the right among young people because that's just, that's clearly what the trend is headed towards.
00:25:51.000I saw him bring that up in conversations with people and he was trying to give them a heads up.
00:25:56.000And that's what would cause a lot of this anger is he would come to them in love and say, guys, you have a huge problem coming and you need to adjust your strategy or you're going to be caught really badly off guard.
00:26:08.000And unfortunately, I think a lot of them didn't take that advice and we're seeing his warning come to pass.
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00:27:47.000I mean, I think you can, and what I've tried to do from the beginning on this, I think you can show empathy for both sides and their positions.
00:27:53.000And, you know, in the case of the Israel divide, that was kind of easy for me because I knew people on both sides.
00:28:01.000Like Glenn Greenwald and Ben Shapiro are diametrically opposed on this issue and have been for a long time.
00:28:12.000And so I could listen to Glenn talk about Israel in a way that I didn't really agree with at all, but he's so smart that I, and I love him.
00:28:40.000Like actually try to listen to the friends about their grievances.
00:28:43.000And it doesn't have to be, that's not talking about the other friends behind their back.
00:28:46.000That's you really trying to understand what the grievances are.
00:28:49.000And I generally am of the feeling that when you're talking to people, even if it's people you oppose ideologically or what have you, if you can give them a couple of points, you're going to advance the conversation.
00:29:22.000I had a second question or a question.
00:29:26.000So I have a friend that I go to college with.
00:29:29.000He's been, you know, he's very involved.
00:29:31.000He's a geopolitician, you know, but he's also a liberal.
00:29:34.000He has been criticizing me for my support of Israel.
00:29:38.000And he's been bringing up history lessons such as the USS Libertarian USS Liberty, I believe, attack that happened and told him, like, why are we supporting Israel?
00:29:52.000Literally, they're trying to take out Iran, and then including with trying to control Gaza and trying to, and, you know, their attack back on Gaza after what Hamas did to Israel.
00:30:08.000And I told him, you know, I disagreed with him, but then all of a sudden, how can I, you know, we can have civil conversation, but when it comes to trying to criticize Israel or try to like be soft on the issue, but then when it comes to Hamas, like he tries to justify, not justify it, but like be light about it.
00:30:33.000You should go read the Hamas Charter and your argument is going to get a lot better.
00:33:27.000Yeah, no, and by the way, even with the story with Tyler Robinson and Lance Twiggs, assassin of Charlie, alleged, I guess, I don't know if I'm legally supposed to say that whatever.
00:34:31.000And it's like, no one talked about it.
00:34:33.000Like, okay, it's supposed to be supposed to pretend it's just like half a glass of Chablis, which it's not.
00:34:39.000I mean, I'm a complete believer that when you use hard drugs or maybe just a lot of THC, which is a hard drug, actually, when it's at those dosages, that it's a highway to hell, that it opens you up to dark forces because you lose control of the things that God gave you to control your mind and your heart and to keep bad things out.
00:35:01.000The guy who started the psychedelics clinic at Johns Hopkins University and was the godfather of psychedelics, all this, the MDNA and all the stuff that people take ketamine.
00:35:13.000He told me in an interview we did that if there's any history of schizophrenia in your family, any, and it can go way back and we don't know, and you go in, even in a controlled setting, which he said is the only way you should ever do one of those drugs.
00:35:27.000Some people do it for cancer, depression.