The Charlie Kirk Show - September 02, 2026


Why Tyler Robinson Pleaded Not Guilty + Suicidal Empathy and Lindsay Clancy


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 35 minutes

Words per minute

172.38

Word count

16,543

Sentence count

1,160


Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.
00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.
00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.
00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.
00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful.
00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.
00:00:26.000 You've got to stop sending your kids to college.
00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.
00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.
00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter.
00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.
00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.
00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.
00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.
00:00:44.000 And I encourage you to do the same.
00:00:45.000 Here I am.
00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.
00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:00:49.000 Here we go.
00:00:56.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
00:01:06.000 Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at NobleGoldInvestments.com.
00:01:13.000 That is NobleGoldInvestments.com.
00:01:17.000 All right.
00:01:17.000 Welcome, everybody.
00:01:18.000 September 2nd, 2026.
00:01:21.000 I'm back in the YREFI studios here in Phoenix, Arizona.
00:01:25.000 Blake was holding it down yesterday.
00:01:26.000 Thank you for doing that, Blake.
00:01:27.000 Of course.
00:01:29.000 It was a really remarkable experience, I will tell you, being in that courtroom.
00:01:33.000 Obviously, we covered the preliminary hearing in depth here, and, you know, we.
00:01:37.000 Watched every minute of it.
00:01:39.000 But being inside that courtroom is a different experience altogether.
00:01:41.000 I will tell you, you just walk right in, and the defendant, Tyler Robinson, sitting right there, his family members.
00:01:50.000 There's nothing that will prepare you for that moment.
00:01:53.000 It's a very small room.
00:01:54.000 It's very small.
00:01:55.000 All courtrooms are always smaller than people expect.
00:01:58.000 It's very small.
00:01:59.000 And you can sort of feel the energy and the ebb and flow of the hearing as it goes on.
00:02:06.000 And it's just completely different.
00:02:08.000 And what's interesting is.
00:02:09.000 As well, you sort of get out of that online space where conspiracy theories are everywhere and people are speculating about this and that.
00:02:16.000 When that courtroom is in, you've got to answer some very basic fundamental questions.
00:02:21.000 There's only so much wiggle room because the court is going to keep you in check.
00:02:26.000 And it's difficult to explain to people that haven't been in that room.
00:02:30.000 But when you're there, you kind of feel the laws of justice and the wheels of justice, rather, turn in a really remarkable way.
00:02:38.000 You said yesterday they grind slowly, but they grind fast.
00:02:41.000 Slowly, but very fine.
00:02:42.000 And you can feel that.
00:02:44.000 Granularity in that courtroom.
00:02:45.000 I mean, parsing over a word here or there or a count, how it's being interpreted or some sort of legal precedent.
00:02:53.000 And it's just really emotional because you can feel that in that courtroom, the facts are so monumental to overcome for the Robinson defense that they don't really have many outs.
00:03:06.000 And I don't envy them their role that they have to play in this because there is such a mountain of evidence from the DNA to the ballistics to the confessions to the surveillance video to.
00:03:18.000 His Discord chats and all this kind of stuff.
00:03:20.000 I mean, I don't know where you go here because.
00:03:23.000 Well, we saw where they go yesterday.
00:03:25.000 But first, I think for anyone who wasn't tuned in last night, we may as well replay it.
00:03:30.000 It took all day.
00:03:31.000 There was a lot of back and forth.
00:03:33.000 We were memorably talking about how the defense objected to the sound a tripod on a camera would make if there were too many of them.
00:03:40.000 That would disrupt a fair trial.
00:03:41.000 That's the level of objection we were dealing with.
00:03:44.000 But the end of the day, Judge Graff, he did, took an hour recess, came out, he read it out.
00:03:49.000 It took.
00:03:50.000 45 minutes for him to read the whole order, but he finally got to what we were all waiting for.
00:03:55.000 Would he bind Tyler Robinson over on murder and would he preserve the possibility of a death penalty?
00:04:02.000 Here's what he said clip 15.
00:04:05.000 The court's determination does not rest on crowd size alone or an assumed probability of wind, ricochet, overpenetration, or bullet deflection.
00:04:17.000 It rests on the evidence concerning the location and manner of the shot, the documented position of several individuals in and around the canopy area, defendant's opportunity to observe those circumstances.
00:04:30.000 And the preliminary hearing requirement that reasonable inferences be drawn in the state's favor.
00:04:36.000 Whether the state can prove the aggravating circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt remains for trial.
00:04:43.000 Count one is bound over for trial.
00:04:46.000 So, what he's saying there is to have Tyler Robinson be eligible for the death penalty, they need aggravated murder.
00:04:53.000 The position they've staked out as their main thrust for that is that Tyler Robinson was firing at Charlie in a huge crowd.
00:05:01.000 There were tons of people in front of Charlie, behind Charlie, next to Charlie, his security team, just a few feet away.
00:05:07.000 He's firing from a football field away, so you move just half an inch, you hit a completely different target.
00:05:11.000 Well, that was an interesting new detail that we heard yesterday, by the way.
00:05:14.000 They said if he would have, under all that pressure, which you can imagine, yeah, he'd been testing his shot, right?
00:05:22.000 There was the test shot that he took.
00:05:24.000 There were targets that had multiple bullet holes in them, and only four hit the target, by the way, the bullseye, out of, I think, over 20.
00:05:33.000 But they said if he would have flinched just a quarter of an inch, that moves three and a half feet.
00:05:38.000 That moves the shot from that distance, 415 feet, it moves it three and a half feet.
00:05:43.000 And I don't know where security was standing, approximate distance to him.
00:05:46.000 I'm sure they're going to figure that out.
00:05:48.000 I think the judge at one point said two to two and a half feet away for the closest person.
00:05:52.000 But that's a quarter of an inch.
00:05:53.000 If you just flinch a quarter of an inch under that pressure, a half inch, it's seven feet.
00:05:58.000 And basically at that point, anybody's in play, I will tell you.
00:06:00.000 And the other point that they made is that the people moving around, again, over 3,000 people, and you're firing into.
00:06:07.000 A whole crowd of people.
00:06:08.000 You on a shooting range, you are not allowed to shoot when anybody's downrange, even if they're 50 feet that way.
00:06:17.000 You do not shoot downrange, let alone when 3,000 people are in your line of sight.
00:06:21.000 But the judge made a good point that this is a fluid situation.
00:06:25.000 People are moving around, they're moving their heads.
00:06:27.000 You can't, I mean, it's common sense that, of course, he endangered other people, but he was also targeting somebody for his political speech.
00:06:34.000 And I think that was one of.
00:06:38.000 The big stories out of yesterday, of course, was the big one.
00:06:40.000 The big one was when Novak, the defense counsel, started saying that Charlie, of course, said hateful things.
00:06:50.000 And I will tell you, I think a lot of people want to know what it was like in the room because they tell you you can't nod, you can't make noises, you can't do anything.
00:06:56.000 If you're watching, you have to be just completely stilt and silent.
00:07:01.000 But when he said that, nobody could stop and hide the reaction.
00:07:06.000 We just started turning around to each other.
00:07:08.000 We were half paying attention and we jerked out and I go, Is he saying what I think he is saying?
00:07:13.000 I think, yes, he was.
00:07:15.000 We have it.
00:07:16.000 We have a long one.
00:07:16.000 I don't even know if I want to.
00:07:17.000 Can we cut this off at some point?
00:07:19.000 It's too long, but SOT 13.
00:07:21.000 There is no evidence of Mr. Robinson having heard or seen anything specific from Mr. Kirk or having expressed anything about Mr. Kirk until the statement, which basically says some hatred can't be negotiated out.
00:07:41.000 So what is it?
00:07:43.000 Is it political expression?
00:07:45.000 Which political expression?
00:07:49.000 It is true that Mr. Kirk spoke hatefully of certain groups of people.
00:07:59.000 He spoke hatefully of people who don't have traditional, norm conforming gender identities.
00:08:11.000 Yeah, I mean, he said, spoke hatefully about people who had sex outside of marriage, spoke hatefully about people who were not.
00:08:16.000 Purely heterosexual.
00:08:18.000 So, but watch what actually happens.
00:08:20.000 Not only was that disgusting, not only was that a bad look for him, and I saw one commentator made the point that the defense has been arguing to keep cameras out of the courtroom, but that moment specifically was Mr. Novak playing to the cameras.
00:08:34.000 That was him trying to send a message and justify the cold blooded assassination of Charlie.
00:08:42.000 Because he's actually making the state's point there, Blake.
00:08:45.000 He's saying, well, we don't know that he killed him because of political viewpoints or anything like that.
00:08:50.000 But he was hateful and even acknowledged that the text that some hate can't be negotiated out.
00:08:57.000 He was trying to say there were so many possible motives, really, for why he could have told Tyler Robinson that you can't specify one that would qualify for an invasion.
00:09:06.000 Which is a complete reach.
00:09:08.000 And by the way, again, these people have nowhere to go.
00:09:10.000 There's nowhere logically for them to take this.
00:09:13.000 Their obligation is to defend Tyler Robinson vigorously, and they should.
00:09:18.000 But this just is sort of proof.
00:09:20.000 This was a microcosm of the fact they have nowhere to go with this logically.
00:09:24.000 There's no outs.
00:09:26.000 It's almost like Tyler Robinson, like, it's almost like this is so airtight that even these really high powered, high priced attorneys can't figure a wiggle way out.
00:09:37.000 I mean, that's really what you're watching here.
00:09:41.000 Thank you again to Blake and the team for holding it down yesterday.
00:09:44.000 Humans work, as they say, because there was a lot.
00:09:47.000 You guys streamed for a long time, man.
00:09:48.000 Yes, it was.
00:09:49.000 It was a long stream.
00:09:50.000 I think we must have been on air close to four hours because you had last minute, we were all prepared to just throw.
00:09:55.000 To the hearing, and then they had that delayed some hour.
00:09:58.000 They delayed a half hour, then they were debating some media related thing electronic media coverage.
00:10:03.000 So that went so we went for an hour at the top, and then they took a lunch break, and then they took a bonus break, and then a bonus bonus break.
00:10:11.000 There's always, I mean, it was just we were constantly going in and out, in and out, which honestly, you're kind of grateful for because you have to stay so still.
00:10:17.000 I'm not good at that staying still, but let's talk about this.
00:10:20.000 So, Mr. Novak claimed to the camera says that Charlie's full of hate, and he specifically, to Blake's point.
00:10:28.000 Specifically says that he's hateful towards people that have non gender conforming identities that are gay relationships, all this stuff.
00:10:37.000 Total garbage, by the way.
00:10:39.000 And I said this online.
00:10:41.000 I'm going to play a clip that proves it.
00:10:43.000 I said, Charlie's not hateful.
00:10:44.000 He didn't speak hatefully of some groups of people.
00:10:47.000 Charlie loved people enough to be honest with them and tell them the truth.
00:10:50.000 And it didn't matter their race, their gender, or their background, which is verboten in modern American society.
00:10:58.000 In a modern America, you are protected by.
00:11:01.000 Whatever privilege group or special interest group or intersectional group that you claim.
00:11:07.000 And so, therefore, if you claim one of these groups, you can't be honest with them.
00:11:12.000 You are immune from accountability.
00:11:14.000 You are immune from honesty.
00:11:15.000 We see this in the Lindsey Clancy trial.
00:11:17.000 She was a woman.
00:11:19.000 She had, what is it, postpartum psychosis.
00:11:21.000 We can't hold her accountable.
00:11:23.000 We're probably going to get a hung jury in that trial, by the way.
00:11:25.000 Almost certainly.
00:11:27.000 So, but he told them the truth with warmth and kindness.
00:11:31.000 Charlie was actually one of the few people on planet Earth that respected people that disagreed with him enough to hear them out and to engage with them in good faith and say, if you disagree with me, come to the front of the line.
00:11:41.000 Charlie obviously would match the energy if you were trolling him, or if you came in bad faith, he would put you in your place.
00:11:48.000 That's absolutely right.
00:11:50.000 But time and time again, the crowd around him would urge him to dunk on people because they had faulty arguments or they were wrong.
00:11:57.000 But if they were there sincerely, you know what Charlie would do?
00:12:00.000 Charlie would look around to everybody and say, Calm down, calm down.
00:12:03.000 Let them speak.
00:12:05.000 Let them speak.
00:12:06.000 Be respectful, guys.
00:12:09.000 Charlie, I would wager to bet.
00:12:11.000 Gave more time, patience, and love to people who hated him, hated his guts, and disagreed with him than most people will ever give to even their greatest ally.
00:12:21.000 Let's just get the clip, I think.
00:12:23.000 I want to make that point very clear that Novak could not be more wrong about this.
00:12:28.000 And here's the clip that proves my point 28.
00:12:31.000 I just want to say I'm a transgender male.
00:12:34.000 What age should kids be able to get things like hormone therapy?
00:12:38.000 Because I don't know what's true, what's not.
00:12:40.000 Tell me, are you comfortable telling me your story?
00:12:42.000 I've known that.
00:12:44.000 Since like third grade, and I'm currently 19, almost 20.
00:12:48.000 I've known basically since then, I didn't start going by like a different name until seventh and eighth grade.
00:12:55.000 I just don't know, like, with the whole medical stuff, like what's true, what's not, what's helpful, because I've heard so many different opinions.
00:13:03.000 First of all, thank you so much for that.
00:13:05.000 And so, I'm gonna have an opinion that very few people will ever tell you, which is I want you to be very cautious putting drugs into your system in the pursuit of changing your body.
00:13:17.000 I instead Encourage you to work on what's going on in your brain first.
00:13:21.000 I think what you need first and foremost is just a diagnosis, just someone that is going to listen to what you've gone through, listen to what else is going on.
00:13:30.000 My prayer for you, and again, very few people will say this, I actually want to see you be comfortable in how you were born.
00:13:37.000 I know that you might not feel that way, but I think that is something that you can achieve.
00:13:41.000 I think that with the right team and the right people, you don't have to wage war on your body, you can learn to love your body.
00:13:48.000 He had so many exchanges like that at event after event.
00:13:53.000 And we talked about this with Danny yesterday that when he was prepping his binder for the fall tour, he said, Hey, we don't need as much stuff on the trans issue.
00:14:03.000 A lot of them, they're troubled people.
00:14:06.000 We're winning on this issue.
00:14:07.000 We don't need to go that hard.
00:14:09.000 And that's the persona he cultivated.
00:14:14.000 And he could meet, as you said, he could meet hostile energy with his own energy.
00:14:18.000 But if someone wanted to engage in good faith, he was so happy to do that.
00:14:23.000 And then.
00:14:24.000 To see Novak go on stage and just start planting those seeds so that six months, a year from now, someone on a jury might think, oh, well, I have to account for the fact that that hater had it coming when I decide the sentence.
00:14:37.000 Yeah.
00:14:38.000 That's exactly what I think he was doing.
00:14:40.000 It was completely out of line, by the way.
00:14:41.000 Completely out of line.
00:14:42.000 Disgusting behavior.
00:14:44.000 And I thought Jeff Nyman, the family representative for the Kirk family, did an incredible job summing up what should be.
00:14:55.000 Plainly obvious to everybody.
00:14:56.000 You don't go into court and spit on the grave of the dead guy, of the victim here.
00:15:01.000 27.
00:15:02.000 Charlie devoted his life to building a community of over a million young people rooted in faith and freedom.
00:15:11.000 He had hard conversations others were too afraid to have.
00:15:17.000 Charlie was the opposite of hate.
00:15:20.000 Firing a bullet into a crowd and assassinating him, that is hate.
00:15:28.000 Simple as that.
00:15:29.000 And it's just like, and one statement from Mr. Nyman, and it was like moral sanity had been reestablished in the courtroom.
00:15:40.000 And it was, if I could have got up and started clapping, I would have.
00:15:43.000 And I know that like Erica and everybody else felt the same.
00:15:46.000 It was the amount of, you know, I think back to the preliminary hearing and attorney Burt, Mr. Burt, talking about Erica Kirk can have her press conference.
00:15:57.000 Never had a press conference, Mr. Burt.
00:16:00.000 But that was a low blow, a very unnecessary thing to do.
00:16:05.000 And then to see Mr. Novak also engage in this sort of editorializing about Charlie being a hater, it completely out of line.
00:16:17.000 This is the victim and his family.
00:16:19.000 And these people go out of their way defending an assassin by attacking the victim.
00:16:25.000 Absolutely out of line.
00:16:28.000 And the other thing I would just say, and we're going to talk about this with Andrea Burkhart, but I got calls.
00:16:32.000 Immediately after I, I mean, my phone was blown up.
00:16:34.000 I get out, all these trial attorneys, a couple judges called me, and they're like, If I was judge of this case, I would be done.
00:16:42.000 This would be done already.
00:16:43.000 He would be convicted and sentenced.
00:16:46.000 Well, I think.
00:16:48.000 And I said, Well, wouldn't that get overturned on appeal?
00:16:50.000 They're like, No, you could do it fast.
00:16:52.000 You could do it right.
00:16:53.000 It depends.
00:16:53.000 I think we talked about stuff that would get us takeaways.
00:16:56.000 And I think a real lesson, if we want to make progress as a country looking at this, is we should think what are changes we can make to our laws so that.
00:17:05.000 A process like this is not a two or three or four year ordeal.
00:17:11.000 Andrea, we can ask her about this.
00:17:12.000 There's other cases in Utah.
00:17:14.000 Someone killed someone in 2024, and because the defendant is difficult, they only just got bound over now.
00:17:20.000 You can really drag the process out, and that is torture for anyone who's related to the victim.
00:17:26.000 It creates a vacuum, and this void is filled by all these bad faith actors.
00:17:30.000 Here's what I'll finish on Of course, Tyler Robinson deserves a fair hearing, of course, he deserves a fair hearing.
00:17:37.000 You know, his chance to make his case.
00:17:39.000 We're not saying anything against that.
00:17:41.000 But this process is so long when you're on this side of it, and it's just obscene.
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00:18:46.000 All right, Congressman Brandon Gill, welcome back to the show.
00:18:49.000 It's great to see you and thanks for making some time for us.
00:18:52.000 We've just one question on this.
00:18:54.000 I know you're not in the weeds like we are, and you can take it however you want, but yesterday was the bind over hearing in Charlie's trial, the assassination, Tyler Robinson.
00:19:05.000 He was bound over on all seven counts.
00:19:08.000 Just from your vantage point, your perch, why is this important that we get this right and that we get justice for Charlie?
00:19:18.000 And, you know, what does this say about assassination culture in this country writ large?
00:19:23.000 Well, first of all, thanks for having me on.
00:19:25.000 I mean, it is important to get this right, I think, for two main reasons.
00:19:29.000 One, simply for justice for Charlie and for Erica and for his family, because we need to make sure that if anybody commits a crime in this country, no matter who you commit it against, if you murder somebody, you need to be in jail or you need to get the death penalty, in my opinion.
00:19:46.000 And to the extent that we don't see justice in crimes like this, particularly that are so public, I think you truly do start to see the rule of law and civilization unravel.
00:19:58.000 So this.
00:19:58.000 The crime itself, apart from the political aspect, speaks to a very core part of what it means to be American and to live in civilization.
00:20:08.000 Secondly, though, political violence is sort of another level of crime, I think.
00:20:15.000 And the reason I say that is the ability to have self government, to be able to have a representative democracy, a Republican form of government, relies on the ability of people to speak openly without fear of assassination.
00:20:30.000 The ability to debate different ideas and to hopefully come to some sort of conclusion or consensus.
00:20:37.000 And that ability is directly, not only undermined, but I think begins to crumble whenever you see political assassinations like this, and that's what this is, become normalized in any way.
00:20:49.000 So it really, in that sense, speaks to the core of our governing structure.
00:20:55.000 So this is unbelievably important.
00:20:58.000 I think it's something, you know, apart from that.
00:21:01.000 All of us have a sense of justice that we want to see.
00:21:04.000 I mean, this was one of the most horrific crimes that the American people have seen because, you know, we all feel for Erica and the family.
00:21:15.000 Yeah, I think that's one of the most important points to keep making that this was not merely any murder.
00:21:23.000 And there are murders in this country, we're often a violent country.
00:21:26.000 This was a large public assassination.
00:21:29.000 Its harms go far beyond the fact that we lost our friend, our boss, our mentor.
00:21:35.000 A hero to so many people is that it was specifically done to terrorize anyone who did what he did, which is go on campus to debate people, anyone who holds the views that he did.
00:21:47.000 It's so much more toxic than just a simple act of violence.
00:21:51.000 Yeah.
00:21:52.000 And Congressman, the two things came up yesterday that I would love for you to work on at some point when you get some bandwidth.
00:21:58.000 I know you got a lot going on, but getting these prediction markets out of the criminal justice system, these can be gamed.
00:22:05.000 Bad judges, corrupt judges.
00:22:07.000 This came up at trial yesterday.
00:22:08.000 Yes, they were saying there's a poly market on will Tyler Robinson be convicted?
00:22:13.000 They were saying that introduces bias.
00:22:15.000 But all we could think of is just one juror, one prosecutor, one defense attorney, one judge, any one of them.
00:22:23.000 It makes it so much easier to do corrupt behavior.
00:22:26.000 And then just getting this stuff quicker.
00:22:28.000 I mean, this is just the wheels of justice grind too slowly, in my opinion.
00:22:33.000 But those, you're, we're, we're, I'm just throwing that out there.
00:22:37.000 If you get some time to work on it as a side project, we'd be grateful.
00:22:40.000 Congressman, you are doing some amazing work on birth tourism.
00:22:45.000 And as you do, you just completely dice these guys up as you're talking.
00:22:52.000 They are claiming the fifth and all this stuff, but you get your points out so expertly.
00:22:58.000 It's fun to watch you do this.
00:22:59.000 Go ahead, and we're going to play this.
00:23:01.000 Cut nine.
00:23:02.000 Is it true that your business, Have My Baby in Miami, marketed itself?
00:23:06.000 To and facilitated the entry of foreign nationals seeking to come to the United States to give birth and obtain birthright citizenship for their children?
00:23:16.000 On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer the question on the grounds that a truthful answer may tend to incriminate me, and I invoke my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the United States.
00:23:27.000 All right, so set the stage.
00:23:30.000 Birth tourism, this is a big, big issue.
00:23:33.000 This is a big issue, and you start from the premise that American citizenship is the most valuable thing in the world.
00:23:39.000 It's not something that we hand out to every foreigner on the globe, and it's certainly not something that.
00:23:45.000 Private businesses or anybody else should be profiting off of.
00:23:48.000 And that's what we believe this man was doing by advertising in foreign countries to have people come into the United States for the sole purpose of giving birth so that their children could become citizens.
00:24:01.000 That allows them to be anchored into the United States.
00:24:03.000 It has all kinds of ramifications from being able to vote in American elections, being able to access welfare, but also being able to bring in family members via chain migration to a virtually unlimited degree.
00:24:17.000 Those are big, that's a big, big deal.
00:24:19.000 And I think the American people are sick of whenever they hear news headlines about how 20,000 to 30,000 people come obtain American citizenship via birth tourism every single year.
00:24:31.000 We know that the number of Chinese Americans born in the United States to have American citizenship but are being raised in China could be astronomically higher.
00:24:42.000 So, what we wanted to do is put an end to this practice.
00:24:44.000 We brought in this doctor.
00:24:46.000 We've also requested information from several others as well.
00:24:50.000 I wanted to simply ask him about what he's doing.
00:24:52.000 You know, he's got the right to plead the fifth.
00:24:54.000 He did.
00:24:55.000 But we're going to continue the investigation.
00:24:57.000 Well, you go on, and I love this one because you end up just, it's such an indictment of the entire cottage industry that is a complete farce, by the way.
00:25:07.000 It makes a mockery out of our laws and our system.
00:25:10.000 And the Supreme Court, somehow in their esteemed wisdom, couldn't see that we're being taken for suckers.
00:25:16.000 But you make the point here very well.
00:25:18.000 Sot 10.
00:25:19.000 This website isn't public anymore.
00:25:22.000 What motivated you to take down or.
00:25:24.000 At least substantially modify this website.
00:25:27.000 I respectfully decline to answer the question on the grounds that a truthful answer may incriminate me.
00:25:32.000 Does your business help children of members of the Chinese Communist Party obtain American citizenship?
00:25:36.000 I respectfully decline to answer.
00:25:38.000 Have you ever facilitated the childbirth in America for a member of Trin de Aragua, MS-13, or any other narco-terrorist organization?
00:25:47.000 I respectfully decline to answer the question on the grounds that a truthful answer may tend to incriminate me.
00:25:52.000 Is it your intention to answer any question put to you by the committee today with an assertion of your Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination?
00:26:01.000 Speak to counsel, please.
00:26:02.000 No.
00:26:03.000 No?
00:26:03.000 No, sir.
00:26:05.000 Okay.
00:26:05.000 Dr. Lorenz, considering your invocation of the Fifth Amendment writing and self incrimination, I have no choice but to excuse you from the witness panel.
00:26:13.000 You got your point across.
00:26:14.000 I mean, it's so telling that this guy runs a big business, you know, taking advantage of a loophole in American law, and then he doesn't even have the courage to answer honestly and truthfully when asked about it before Congress.
00:26:28.000 What does that say about the whole entire industry?
00:26:31.000 Well, it shows you how.
00:26:32.000 Ashamed these people should be, and how they know what they're doing is wrong.
00:26:37.000 I walked through certain parts of his website that used to be public or no longer public anymore.
00:26:43.000 One of the front pages of his website for Have My Baby in Miami, by the way, the name of the business, had a statement saying something along the lines of Fulfill your dream of having your child in the United States.
00:26:55.000 You can continue through the website, and it has information on how to get housing in the United States, legal assistance, where they'll connect you with lawyers, basically a step by step guide.
00:27:05.000 For how to come into the United States for the purpose of having a child.
00:27:08.000 Of course, they took that down.
00:27:10.000 Also, on that website, by the way, they had been advertising that they had helped over 2,000 foreigners come into the United States to give birth.
00:27:19.000 And that's just this doctor's office or just this business.
00:27:23.000 Can you imagine how much bigger this is outside in all kinds of other areas?
00:27:28.000 I mean, this is a serious problem.
00:27:30.000 But I think they know, especially whenever you're confronted with the reality of what birth tourism is, the fact that this business is not vetting people to determine whether they should get American citizenship and they shouldn't be.
00:27:44.000 In the business of doing that.
00:27:45.000 They shouldn't be in the business of importing people to give out the most valuable citizenship in the world either.
00:27:50.000 And Congressman Democrat Dave Minn sort of made the point for everybody here.
00:27:57.000 I hear this and I'm like, please argue more on why we shouldn't have this.
00:28:01.000 Exactly.
00:28:02.000 Sod 11.
00:28:02.000 This is all very deeply personal to me because I am myself a birthright citizen.
00:28:06.000 My parents were here in America on student visas when I was born.
00:28:10.000 They'd not become naturalized until after I was born.
00:28:12.000 And if Donald Trump and Brandon Gill Had had their way, maybe my parents would have been denied their visas, maybe they would have been deported, maybe my citizenship would have been denied.
00:28:21.000 And maybe if I say something today or beyond that Brandon Gill doesn't like, he'll try to revoke my citizenship.
00:28:27.000 Congressman, your reaction to the other Congressman?
00:28:30.000 I tried to assure my colleague, Mr. Men, that I am not going to try and take his citizenship away from him.
00:28:37.000 He brought up Ilhan Omar, who I have gone back and forth many times.
00:28:42.000 As long as Dave Men doesn't try to marry a sibling or support foreign terrorist organizations, I have no intention.
00:28:49.000 Of attempting to take away his American citizenship.
00:28:53.000 Well said.
00:28:54.000 I think that's a good baseline.
00:28:55.000 The bar is pretty low now, isn't it, Congressman?
00:28:58.000 So I got two lines of questioning I want to get through here, Congressman.
00:29:03.000 So there was this clip that went kind of viral with Senator Kennedy basically saying the Senate leadership fund is not going to be backing Ken Paxton, right?
00:29:11.000 And he said, I hope the president puts some money into this race.
00:29:16.000 Okay.
00:29:18.000 Why?
00:29:18.000 Just, you know Ken Paxton, you know the state of Texas.
00:29:23.000 I'm told internal polling does have Ken Paxton up.
00:29:25.000 You'll see all these other polls that are a lot of noise, but it's closer than it should be.
00:29:30.000 Can we just acknowledge that?
00:29:31.000 And James Talrico is a complete nutcase.
00:29:35.000 Make the case for Texans and for the country that maybe if you're living in Missouri right now, the thing you need to do is send some money to Ken Paxton.
00:29:42.000 Just throwing that out there.
00:29:43.000 But the floor is yours, Congressman.
00:29:45.000 Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:46.000 You know, every single cycle, Democrats talk about flipping Texas blue.
00:29:51.000 They've never been able to do it before, but they are going all out here.
00:29:54.000 And You're seeing a little bit of that reflected in the polls.
00:29:58.000 And you see Democrats across the state mobilizing.
00:30:02.000 I think, unluckily for them, they have rallied behind the most radical far left candidate they could possibly find.
00:30:09.000 Somebody who, if he was running in New York, would be considered a far left candidate, much less in Texas.
00:30:16.000 As we know, this is a guy who has talked about God being non binary, children, you know, basically choosing their gender, wanting a welcome mat on our southern border, a guy who wants to destroy Texas's energy sector.
00:30:29.000 I mean, this is a guy who wants to fundamentally transform not only our state, but our country.
00:30:36.000 On the other hand, you've got Ken Paxson, who has been one of the most effective attorney generals in our country for over the past several years and has been a conservative fighter and somebody who's going to go to Washington and represent and fight for conservative values.
00:30:52.000 So I think the contrast couldn't be more clear.
00:30:55.000 But we have to make sure that we get out to the polls.
00:30:58.000 Every single Texan gets to the polls, that they're talking to their friends and family members, that they're telling them what the stakes are with Ken Paxton and James Tallarico and how wacko and radical Tallarico is.
00:31:11.000 Yeah.
00:31:11.000 Look at this.
00:31:13.000 This was written the day that the Dobbs decision came out.
00:31:16.000 This is from Tallarico's official letterhead.
00:31:19.000 We could throw it up.
00:31:21.000 You know, okay, you're mad that Dobbs happens.
00:31:23.000 We understand that.
00:31:24.000 We understand that Democrats didn't like Dobbs.
00:31:26.000 Maybe you want to overturn it, whatever.
00:31:28.000 Here is James Tallarico advocating, sends this, I believe, yeah, to To the president, right?
00:31:36.000 Yeah, Joe Biden.
00:31:37.000 He sends it to Joe Biden.
00:31:38.000 So he's advocating for what would essentially be a federal abortion service staffed by a federal abortion corps, telling the president to give federal lands to abortion clinics to make these abortion providers federal employees so they would be immune from state level prosecution.
00:31:56.000 And this is like good Christian boy, James Talrico, advocating for all this on the day Dobbs came down.
00:32:02.000 Your reaction?
00:32:03.000 Yeah, I don't want to ever hear James Tallarico invoke the Christian faith again, not only because of this, but because of his insane social views and hatred, I think, for traditional Christian values.
00:32:18.000 But the idea that we should have federally run abortion clinics on public, federally owned land to convert empty buildings so that we can run these as abortion mills is so radical and insane.
00:32:34.000 It's hard to know.
00:32:35.000 Where to begin, but that's, I think it does show you how ideologically connected the left is to abortion for everybody without any kind of restrictions or without any kind of rational, logical, or common sense guidelines on it.
00:32:51.000 And these people, I mean, that is truly deranged.
00:32:54.000 It's so deranged.
00:32:56.000 That's where they're at.
00:32:58.000 The radical nature of James Talrico and he hides it behind this golly gee shucks persona is.
00:33:06.000 It cannot be overstated.
00:33:07.000 I mean, there is the line between a James Talrico and just like your random, like Chevalier, DSA, El Syed.
00:33:16.000 There is no line anymore.
00:33:17.000 There isn't.
00:33:17.000 I mean, even that, the golly gee shucks, it's not even really hiding it.
00:33:23.000 That is their persona.
00:33:24.000 You can be this sort of weird, cringy dork, but it's so baked into their worldview that abortion is, I don't know what else to call it, a sacrament, a holy rite, something that must be.
00:33:37.000 Protected and provided and spread and promoted at all costs.
00:33:42.000 Yeah, it's completely true.
00:33:45.000 Let's go ahead and play this.
00:33:46.000 This is, again, his bad theology is shocking, but it just means that he serves two masters, okay?
00:33:55.000 And you can't do that.
00:33:57.000 Sot 31.
00:33:58.000 I want us all to be aware of that modern science obviously recognizes that there are many more than two biological sexes.
00:34:06.000 In fact, there are six.
00:34:08.000 Oh, okay.
00:34:08.000 Modern science recognizes that.
00:34:10.000 And modern science also recognizes how to kill a baby, an innocent baby in the womb.
00:34:15.000 So, does that all of a sudden make it okay?
00:34:17.000 I thought that the scriptures that you say that you follow say that God made them male and female.
00:34:23.000 What about that?
00:34:24.000 Or how about Psalm 139, where it says, For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb.
00:34:30.000 I praise you because I'm fearfully and wonderfully made.
00:34:33.000 Your works are wonderful.
00:34:34.000 I know that full well.
00:34:37.000 The floor is yours.
00:34:39.000 You know, I think that 10 or 15 years ago, the Democrat Party, many people in the Democrat Party, might have heard those scriptures and realized that what you are saying is true, that there are only two genders, that God created us in a certain way, and that we ought to honor that.
00:34:55.000 I think many of them, maybe 20 years ago, would have recognized that abortion is at the very least a lamentable thing.
00:35:03.000 And I believe it's murder and it's evil.
00:35:06.000 You know, this is the party that used to believe in abortion being safe, legal, and rare.
00:35:11.000 Now it's abortion on demand, partial birth abortion, and converting federal buildings to abortion mills as a matter of policy.
00:35:18.000 I mean, that's not hyperbole.
00:35:19.000 That is literally what this guy, as you showed, wrote in a letter.
00:35:23.000 You know, even five years ago, we would have never been debating.
00:35:27.000 How many genders there are, whether a three year old can change their gender, or whether it's appropriate to give puberty blockers to minors, or any of these other just wacko and frankly very perverted ideologies.
00:35:40.000 But that's where the Democrat Party is now.
00:35:43.000 James Tallarico is a radical leftist, but he's at the sort of the ideological forefront of that party.
00:35:51.000 And that's something that I think every American voter ought to realize that this is not your Graham Paul's Democrat Party anymore.
00:35:57.000 Hopefully, this is the party.
00:35:59.000 I hope they do.
00:36:00.000 This is the party of open borders and social insanity.
00:36:04.000 I completely agree.
00:36:05.000 So, in the last 45 seconds we have here, there's a trend online.
00:36:08.000 I know you've seen it where the left right paradigm is dated, bro.
00:36:13.000 It's not a thing.
00:36:14.000 What do you say to those?
00:36:15.000 A lot of them are young men, by the way, Brandon.
00:36:18.000 What do you say to those people that are getting cynical about the system?
00:36:22.000 30 seconds.
00:36:24.000 I would say, listen, there's always areas where you can criticize somebody in any party.
00:36:30.000 But at the end of the day, you are given a binary choice whenever you go to the voting booth.
00:36:34.000 You're given a choice to vote for sanity on the Republican side.
00:36:38.000 And I think common sense, and maybe it's imperfect, maybe the candidate that you're voting for has views that you disagree with or does things that you don't like.
00:36:47.000 But the other side believes in things that are genuinely deranged and insane.
00:36:52.000 And that's the choice that we have in front of us.
00:36:54.000 And we've got to operate in reality.
00:36:56.000 Congressman Brandon Gill, thank you so much for your time.
00:36:59.000 Thank you for being a voice of sanity.
00:37:02.000 Rising star Brandon Gill.
00:37:03.000 Watch him closely.
00:37:06.000 Midterm elections are coming up and control of Congress is on the line.
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00:37:14.000 And uncertainty is exactly what the next few months are going to bring.
00:37:18.000 In 2024, if it taught us anything, it's that uncertainty breeds volatility.
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00:38:29.000 We have a very special guest for you, and that's Andrea Burkhart.
00:38:32.000 She's a legal commentator, experienced trial and appellate litigator.
00:38:36.000 You can find her on Substack on YouTube.
00:38:38.000 Her Substack, though, is Andrea Burkhart, B U R K A. H A R T dot substack dot com.
00:38:44.000 Andrea, welcome back to the show.
00:38:46.000 We always appreciate you making time for us.
00:38:48.000 I know you're streaming all the time, so we really appreciate it.
00:38:51.000 Now, you are apolitical.
00:38:53.000 You do a very good job of that, but you're gracious to come on with us, and you know we have a POV on this.
00:38:58.000 But, you know, I was in the courtroom yesterday.
00:39:00.000 It was very traumatic, but you and I had texted before, and I basically said, Well, what about the plea deal?
00:39:08.000 What about the plea deal?
00:39:08.000 Like, what's going to happen?
00:39:09.000 And you were like, Oh, he's pleading not guilty.
00:39:11.000 And for you, this was like completely obvious and not surprising at all.
00:39:17.000 The least interesting to all.
00:39:18.000 Yeah, it was not even noteworthy to you.
00:39:20.000 I had to ask you a Pull it out of you.
00:39:22.000 Well, like, of course, he's pleading not guilty.
00:39:24.000 Now, but if you look on social media, that was like, oh, see, he's still fighting this and that.
00:39:30.000 And I, yeah, he does.
00:39:31.000 He deserves a vigorous defense.
00:39:33.000 But then I asked around after you and I talked, and everybody connected to anything was like, yeah, he's pleading not guilty.
00:39:38.000 Of course.
00:39:39.000 Why did you know this?
00:39:41.000 Because that is normal and predictable.
00:39:43.000 And anybody who has ever watched a criminal case before would know this.
00:39:49.000 Yeah, but you're laughing, Andrea.
00:39:51.000 You're laughing, but I, I have been credibly told on social media that this proves that everybody who, you know, puts any stock in the state's case is wrong.
00:40:01.000 They're specifically saying it proves that Tyler Robinson did not confess, basically.
00:40:08.000 Which I don't think any of us have ever said he confessed in the sense of he signed a confession to police.
00:40:14.000 It's that he confessed to his roommate.
00:40:17.000 He confessed 11 times.
00:40:19.000 He confessed on his Discord.
00:40:20.000 He, I think we would say, behaved in a manner with his parents that admitted, like, You've got me.
00:40:27.000 Yeah.
00:40:28.000 So, but go back to why you were not surprised because you were laughing.
00:40:32.000 You find this somewhat ridiculous, but the internet does not think this is ridiculous.
00:40:36.000 Well, I would push back a tiny bit.
00:40:40.000 I mean, yes, there's certainly an echo chamber that has their ideas about the criminal justice system that they apparently got from sniffing glue or something.
00:40:49.000 But, you know, for those of us who have actually dealt with criminal cases, yeah, you plead not guilty if you don't have a plea deal coming into arraignment already.
00:41:00.000 Already set up, you plead guilty or you plead not guilty because that is the only way for you to move the process forward, for you to have the opportunity to negotiate a plea deal, for you to put yourself into any kind of a position where you can get a better outcome than what you would be facing, given the charges and the potential penalties against you, which of course for Tyler Robinson is death.
00:41:24.000 He is not pleading guilty with death on the table, at least not at this point in time.
00:41:30.000 The only time that's even remotely Realistic as a possibility is if they're getting towards the trial date and he's not in a good position as far as being able to present a viable theory of defense on guilt at trial.
00:41:49.000 And so, in that case, he might have strategic reasons to go ahead and plead guilty and then just proceed to trial on the penalty because it would tend to show remorse and accountability and things like that that would work to his favor.
00:42:04.000 But the whole The whole process of the criminal justice system is to hold the state to its burden of proof.
00:42:12.000 Pleading not guilty does not mean I didn't do it.
00:42:16.000 Pleading not guilty means state you're going to have to prove it.
00:42:19.000 It's put up or shut up time.
00:42:21.000 So you're basically saying the only way that he would have pled in that instance is if there was a deal on the table to say we'll take the death penalty off or something along those lines.
00:42:33.000 Absolutely.
00:42:34.000 He has no incentive to plead guilty at this stage because.
00:42:39.000 He has the opportunity to litigate the case to try to improve his position.
00:42:44.000 And he does that through the types of steps that you routinely see in criminal cases.
00:42:49.000 You file motions to suppress, you challenge the admissibility of certain kinds of evidence and things like that.
00:42:56.000 You basically try to limit the damage that the state can do in light of whatever you expect them to be presenting at trial.
00:43:04.000 And then you evaluate kind of where you end up.
00:43:06.000 And so if they were successful at potentially getting a lot of evidence thrown out, well, now there's a bigger risk.
00:43:14.000 To the state of going forward to trial, they might lose.
00:43:17.000 And so now they have more of an incentive to moderate their position and potentially accept a plea to something that they would not be willing to accept at this stage in the process.
00:43:30.000 Yeah, you mentioned the theory of the case, like the defense puts forward a theory of a case.
00:43:35.000 Maybe they can't come up with it.
00:43:37.000 I'm legitimately scratching my head, having been in that courtroom watching Mr. Novak basically talk himself into a corner saying, well, we don't know that Tyler Robinson.
00:43:48.000 Killed Charlie because, or you know, that he was killed because of hate or whatever, uh, or political speech.
00:43:54.000 But then he goes, But we know that he did say hateful things and targeted people with hateful rhetoric.
00:43:59.000 Andrea, that really baffled us.
00:44:01.000 We were discussing what he was saying there.
00:44:04.000 Was there a strategy to it?
00:44:06.000 What was your professional reaction to that moment?
00:44:09.000 Um, I, I, I did not think that was a very smart thing to say.
00:44:16.000 Uh, my, my read on Mr. Novak, uh, at This particular hearing was he seemed to be operating maybe a little bit more off the cuff than he has in other proceedings where he's been a little bit more organized, a little bit more systematic with his presentation.
00:44:33.000 This one, he was, I mean, you could visually see him like having to stop and kind of think through his thoughts a little bit more before he said them.
00:44:42.000 And so I think he may have like reverted to instinct and in a way that maybe is not going to resonate with people who don't share his.
00:44:54.000 Political perspective.
00:44:56.000 I'm sure it's not revolutionary for me to notice that it's often common when political issues come up that certain people just kind of take it for granted that the whole world shares their political perspective, and it can be hard to kind of get out of that.
00:45:14.000 So that's kind of my read on what I think probably happened just a very bad, impulsive misjudgment on the.
00:45:30.000 The temperature in the room.
00:45:32.000 Yeah.
00:45:32.000 Well, and I think it was a mask off moment.
00:45:34.000 I completely agree.
00:45:35.000 And he did, you know, I was looking at him talking to Tyler Robinson a couple of times, like when I first entered the courtroom, and it struck me that they were smirking.
00:45:44.000 They kept like looking at each other, almost like they were like two old friends.
00:45:49.000 It's like, you know, kind of, and that gave me chills.
00:45:53.000 It makes me wonder, Novak, he's a seasoned death penalty case litigator, and just makes you think, What's the long term effect on you where that is every case you're litigating is with people who committed crimes facing the death penalty?
00:46:06.000 This is a good point.
00:46:07.000 This is a good point because Andrea, his whole defense team, this is what they do.
00:46:11.000 They fight death penalty cases, right?
00:46:13.000 These are crusaders against the death penalty.
00:46:16.000 Oh, yeah.
00:46:16.000 I mean, I think there's no question about it.
00:46:18.000 And this is where we may have a little bit of a difference in perspective on what they're doing and the importance of that job and so forth.
00:46:26.000 I see what they are doing sincerely as God's work.
00:46:29.000 They are standing with the people that are the least desired.
00:46:33.000 People in society, the people that nobody wants to stick up for.
00:46:37.000 And that is part of what you internalize when you do that job you are the one person you have a duty to be loyal to them and you have a duty to advocate for them.
00:46:47.000 I don't, and so you take that very seriously.
00:46:50.000 I don't disagree with you.
00:46:51.000 He's entitled to a rigorous defense, a vigorous defense, and we want him to have that.
00:46:55.000 I actually think that's good for the whole process.
00:46:57.000 But just their biography suggests that this is what they do, they are there to get him off death row.
00:47:06.000 The jury is deliberating on a verdict for Lindsey Clancy, and so we are asking people today whether or not they think.
00:47:11.000 She's innocent or guilty?
00:47:13.000 I think she's innocent.
00:47:14.000 I think if she was guilty, I think it needs to be a state of psychosis.
00:47:16.000 She does not deserve prison time.
00:47:18.000 Guilty.
00:47:20.000 Sorry, I said it.
00:47:21.000 I think she's guilty, but I do think there's a lot of gray area.
00:47:26.000 And I don't know, her husband seems cussed to me.
00:47:28.000 I think she should be found guilty.
00:47:30.000 From the little bit of research that I have done, I think her diagnosis, she said, I think it was a mental issue.
00:47:36.000 She was trying to blame her.
00:47:38.000 I don't agree.
00:47:39.000 She's guilty of the murdering part of it, but.
00:47:45.000 I do think that there's a lot of underlying mental health issues and, you know, women's health issues that need to be talked about with that trial.
00:47:51.000 Whether or not she did it from a state of sanity, she killed her kids.
00:47:55.000 The guilty party is like the medical system that failed both her and the children.
00:47:59.000 The gender divide is wild when it comes to this Lindsey Clancy case.
00:48:04.000 And we are watching this, Andrea, because it feels like weirdly an overlap of what we're dealing with, where you have a clearly guilty party that's confessed to do it.
00:48:13.000 It feels like it's also the only other story.
00:48:15.000 Like yesterday, we had this.
00:48:17.000 Make some time, and we're just thinking, is anything else going on except everyone's watching the jury in this trial?
00:48:22.000 Yeah, exactly.
00:48:24.000 It really is that the gender divide is like wild.
00:48:29.000 When you were talking about jury selection in a trial like this, and I'm thinking about it, I'm thinking down the line with Charlie's jury selection too, how important is the gender of the jury?
00:48:39.000 Is this something they talk about openly behind the scenes?
00:48:42.000 Well, there's going to be a lot of different perspectives on that.
00:48:45.000 You're certainly going to find some people who.
00:48:48.000 Who do kind of a segmentation analysis type of approach to jury selection, right?
00:48:54.000 They look at kind of how people can be categorized and what that might suggest about their tendency to vote guilty or not guilty, how they would process information, and things like that.
00:49:05.000 And so, if, for example, somebody engages a jury selection consultant, they'll often get that kind of information and advice.
00:49:16.000 Personally, I've never found gender or really any kind of categorical.
00:49:21.000 Metric to be very helpful in terms of evaluating who is going to be a good juror or not.
00:49:27.000 Because mostly what you're looking for is just you're looking for somebody who is going to be open and receptive to your arguments, to the information that you want to present, somebody who's going to be willing to see it your way.
00:49:40.000 So it's often just more of a kind of gut instinct do I connect with this person or not?
00:49:46.000 A person that likes you and trusts you is somebody who is more likely to give you their vote when it comes time to the verdict.
00:49:53.000 And so that's something that you can't really create a formula for that.
00:49:58.000 You know, there's a spark or there isn't.
00:50:01.000 So externally, people have made it a big sex divide.
00:50:06.000 There's all these jokes because there's the nine women and there's the three men.
00:50:09.000 And so people have joked, oh, the three men of the jury holding the line on trying to convict.
00:50:14.000 But what do you think the likely dynamic is actually going on in the jury?
00:50:18.000 Do you think we're more likely to have a case where it's one holdout one way or the other?
00:50:23.000 Yeah.
00:50:24.000 Any stereotypes?
00:50:25.000 What's most likely to be actually going on in the jury?
00:50:27.000 And then what happens if they do get a hung jury?
00:50:29.000 Yeah.
00:50:30.000 Yeah.
00:50:30.000 Well, so as far as the single holdout, that typically is not that common.
00:50:35.000 It certainly does happen, but it's far more likely when you're unable to reach a verdict that it's because there is more than one person.
00:50:43.000 Juries are like any kind of social environment.
00:50:46.000 There's pressure, and there's just people have a natural kind of tendency to want to please the group, go along, you know, to the extent that they can.
00:50:59.000 And so it's just not that common for somebody, a single person, to be able to resist the pressure of another 11 for a significant length of time.
00:51:08.000 So I would.
00:51:10.000 Suspect it's probably more than one person.
00:51:13.000 I think the nature of the divide is just over the medical issues and the extent to which they have opinions about, you know, was she in active psychosis?
00:51:25.000 Was she medically non compliant?
00:51:27.000 Those things that just factor into people's reaction to the culpability for a crime like this.
00:51:34.000 If a mistrial is declared, if there's a hung jury, then a mistrial is declared.
00:51:38.000 And that means that the The jury is discharged.
00:51:42.000 She's not convicted, but she can be retried.
00:51:46.000 I would expect in this particular case, if she is, if there is a hung jury, that the state would try again to convict her.
00:51:55.000 So it goes basically back to square one, is what you're saying.
00:52:00.000 Not all the way to square one, but I mean, in terms of the trial, yeah, they got to start the trial over, pick a new jury, all that.
00:52:06.000 Interesting.
00:52:07.000 Do you think they would bother with that?
00:52:09.000 Yes.
00:52:10.000 Yes.
00:52:11.000 Yeah.
00:52:11.000 Yeah.
00:52:11.000 We think so.
00:52:12.000 I think so.
00:52:13.000 Yeah.
00:52:13.000 I mean, this woman killed three of her own kids and she's admitted to doing it.
00:52:16.000 Like, if you don't get any kind of conviction, that means she doesn't even go into the psychiatric ward.
00:52:22.000 She doesn't get committed, right?
00:52:23.000 I mean, if you just kind of say, hey, then you're just zero punishment together.
00:52:27.000 So, all together.
00:52:28.000 The alternative to them retrying her is them dismissing the case.
00:52:32.000 And so, you know, they're not going to be inclined to do that, as you said, with three dead children.
00:52:37.000 Yeah.
00:52:38.000 I can't imagine that would be the case.
00:52:40.000 Okay.
00:52:41.000 So, back to what happened yesterday in the Tyler Robinson hearing.
00:52:46.000 That moment at the end, I tweeted about it too because I found it so obnoxious.
00:52:51.000 But you're our timeline expert here.
00:52:53.000 So, the state goes two weeks.
00:52:56.000 And then the defense goes, well, Judge, more like 30 days.
00:53:00.000 And he goes, how about October 23rd?
00:53:02.000 How about seven weeks?
00:53:03.000 That was dead.
00:53:04.000 Just.
00:53:06.000 And then he throws out, well, we could do it virtually.
00:53:09.000 And I was like, oh, great.
00:53:10.000 Maybe we could do it in two, three weeks instead.
00:53:12.000 And then he's like, how about October 23rd?
00:53:14.000 The whole thing.
00:53:16.000 He's very, what's the word?
00:53:20.000 He's slow.
00:53:21.000 Okay.
00:53:22.000 Felt very deliberate.
00:53:23.000 I've been told that there might already be a calendar month date already kind of circled loosely towards the end of 2027.
00:53:32.000 These things move all the time.
00:53:34.000 Are you still thinking late 2028?
00:53:37.000 Yeah.
00:53:38.000 I mean, I could see a situation where they might schedule it before that, but I just have a hard time anticipating that they would actually be ready.
00:53:48.000 And so if they did, You know, set it sooner than I think it's likely there would be a motion to continue at some point.
00:53:57.000 It's just hard for me to overstate the massive amount of preparation that a trial like this requires, not just from the investigative standpoint, their duty to go through and check everything that the state's done.
00:54:12.000 We've seen from the discovery report that they just filed, not just the volume of what they have to go through, but they were.
00:54:19.000 Very systematically laying out the steps of what they need to do to be able to kind of process the information, make it usable, understand it.
00:54:28.000 And they've only just gotten started with that, you know, almost a year since Charlie died.
00:54:34.000 And that's just not unusual with cases of this scope.
00:54:38.000 Also, just a massive amount of litigation that we already know is forthcoming.
00:54:43.000 They've told us, they've hinted at it, you know, they've suggested it.
00:54:47.000 So these things take time.
00:54:49.000 It's just an unfortunate product of how the system works.
00:54:52.000 Yeah.
00:54:53.000 Nestor, as soon as they were talking about setting a trial date, you know, she quickly started.
00:54:58.000 Rapid fire listing all the things that she's going to do to slow the process down.
00:55:02.000 Andrea Burkhart, thank you as always for your unvarnished opinions, even when they disappoint us.
00:55:08.000 And thank you for calling balls and strikes.
00:55:10.000 We appreciate it.
00:55:11.000 And we need more people like you.
00:55:12.000 So follow her.
00:55:13.000 She is worth following.
00:55:17.000 Before he ever stepped onto a debate stage or behind a microphone, Charlie understood something really important that if you want to lead, you first have to learn.
00:55:26.000 Charlie believed that ideas shape character.
00:55:29.000 Conviction and courage.
00:55:30.000 That's why he spent years studying the classics, the American founding, and the Bible through Hillsdale College's free online courses.
00:55:36.000 He would rave about these courses all the time.
00:55:39.000 These free online courses are taught by Hillsdale College professors and draw from the same great books and enduring ideas studied on Hillsdale's campus.
00:55:47.000 Hillsdale's newest free online course is the Iliad, where Professor Stephen Smith guides students through Homer's great epic of honor, courage, friendship, leadership, and the pursuit of true greatness.
00:55:58.000 For nearly 3,000 years, the Iliad has shaped The Western imagination.
00:56:02.000 It tells the story of Achilles as he confronts injustice, rage, grief, responsibility, and the terrible costs of war.
00:56:09.000 But Homer's epic is more than a story of ancient battles.
00:56:11.000 It raises enduring questions about courage, duty, leadership, sacrifice, and self command.
00:56:17.000 Achilles is the greatest warrior among the Greeks, but Homer asks whether strength alone is enough to make a man truly great.
00:56:23.000 In this new free online course, you'll follow Achilles through the defining trials of his life and discover why one of the greatest works of Western literature still speaks.
00:56:32.000 To the permanent questions of human life, Charlie understood that learning isn't just about gaining knowledge, it's about forming the mind and character needed to face the challenges of life with wisdom and courage.
00:56:43.000 You can enroll today completely free and take this class or their 40 plus other free online courses.
00:56:49.000 Just visit charlieforhillsdale.com to start learning today.
00:56:52.000 That's charlieforhillsdale.com.
00:56:54.000 Learn deeply, think clearly, lead boldly, and carry it forward just like Charlie.
00:57:02.000 Without further ado, we have.
00:57:04.000 The great Gadsad.
00:57:06.000 He is a visiting professor at the Declaration of Independence Center for the Study of American Freedom.
00:57:13.000 God bless him.
00:57:14.000 Guy from Lebanon.
00:57:15.000 And I love that.
00:57:15.000 University of Mississippi.
00:57:18.000 And he is the author of Suicidal Empathy, one of the few books in recent memory that has literally transformed the way social media discusses this, I don't know what you call it, like a parasite, this ideological parasite that's infected the West.
00:57:32.000 He has coined the term suicidal empathy.
00:57:34.000 It debuted as an instant.
00:57:36.000 Number one New York Times bestseller, and it stayed on the list for 10 consecutive weeks.
00:57:43.000 God bless you, Dr. Sad.
00:57:45.000 Welcome back to the show.
00:57:46.000 It's so good to have you, and thanks for making some time for us today.
00:57:49.000 Oh, thank you for having me.
00:57:50.000 Let me just preemptively apologize.
00:57:52.000 I have a really bad cough, so if I cough in your face, so to speak, please forgive me.
00:57:58.000 You have the normal kind of parasite.
00:58:00.000 At least it's not an ideological one, all right?
00:58:02.000 So that's fine.
00:58:03.000 We'll give you all the grace in the world.
00:58:05.000 And we are going to go a little bit long, so we're going to do some podcast exclusive after this with Dr. Sad, just because there's too much to get to.
00:58:11.000 Doctor, it feels like the world is upside down.
00:58:15.000 More than any other note that we get from our listeners, it feels like after we lost Charlie, it was like this anchor of just truth and reliability.
00:58:23.000 You knew where Charlie was going to be on things.
00:58:25.000 He was going to speak sense into the void, into the madness.
00:58:28.000 And there's this void that's been left.
00:58:31.000 And it's like up is down, left is right.
00:58:33.000 People that you thought were going to say one thing are saying the exact opposite.
00:58:36.000 Left and right is an old, dated paradigm, bro.
00:58:38.000 We're getting the horseshoe theory, the moral inversion of the Lindsey Clancy trial.
00:58:43.000 You got Charlie Trutherism.
00:58:46.000 The floor is yours.
00:58:47.000 Make sense of this moment.
00:58:48.000 Are we living through mass psychosis?
00:58:51.000 We are.
00:58:52.000 And so for those viewers and listeners who are not too familiar with my work, In several of my books, I offer, if you like, the entire framework to explain why we are consistently jumping off the abyss of infinite lunacy.
00:59:07.000 So, in the parasitic mind, I argued that the way that you can hijack someone's ability to think critically is by injecting them with these ideological brain parasites.
00:59:21.000 But in order for me to fully hijack your capacity to think, I have to do two things.
00:59:27.000 I have to Hijack your cognitive system and your affective system, meaning your emotional system.
00:59:34.000 And that's where suicidal empathy comes in.
00:59:36.000 If I can completely hijack your cognitive and your affective system, I own you.
00:59:42.000 And that's when we end up with up is down, left is right, freedom is slavery, and so on.
00:59:46.000 So, really, those two books, forgive me if I'm tooting my own horn, really explain the existential malady that we're currently facing in the West.
00:59:58.000 Okay, so how.
00:59:59.000 I have so many questions based on the question.
01:00:03.000 So, the question is, how does a bad actor do this?
01:00:05.000 Right.
01:00:06.000 And I don't mind calling her out by name, but it does seem like Candace Owens has this ability to sort of do this to at least some subset of the population, right?
01:00:17.000 I mean, maybe it's foreign actors, maybe it's the CCP, maybe it's Iranians on social media, maybe it's Russians, maybe it's domestic actors, but how does that actually happen and what tools are they using?
01:00:28.000 Right.
01:00:28.000 So, that's a very good question because the more general.
01:00:32.000 Fundamental question that you're asking is Are these parasitic ideas coupled with suicidal empathy a top down process whereby someone willfully sat in a Davos meeting and came up with a way to destroy the West, or is it something that happened organically bottom up?
01:00:51.000 Yes, now to your point, it is true that many nefarious actors use our regrettable proclivity to swim in the infinity pool of suicidal empathy to their advantage, but.
01:01:06.000 Maybe this is good news to your audience.
01:01:08.000 The origins of this lunacy were not started in an a priori lab of evil.
01:01:15.000 And so let me explain how it came about.
01:01:18.000 Every single parasitic idea that I discuss in the parasitic mind, thank you for putting it up on the screen, that eventually led to suicidal empathy stems from the university ecosystem.
01:01:31.000 Because as I never stop reminding people, it uniquely takes intellectuals to come up with some of the dumbest ideas.
01:01:39.000 Now, these ideas were originally spawned on university campuses not because professors were inherently evil, it's because they were fully decoupled from reality and seeking to create a utopian world.
01:01:54.000 So, let me give you a concrete example.
01:01:57.000 The parasitic idea of cultural relativism, which basically says, Who are you to judge the cultural practices and beliefs of another culture?
01:02:05.000 Racist.
01:02:05.000 If they wish to cut off the clitoris of five year old girls, shut up, racist.
01:02:09.000 Well, that cultural relativistic idea stemmed from an anthropologist about 100 years ago named Franz Boas.
01:02:17.000 Why did he come up with this ridiculous theory?
01:02:20.000 Because he thought that if you applied biology in trying to understand human affairs, it can lead to nefarious consequences.
01:02:29.000 So let's build edifices of bullshit, but that hopefully will allow us to get to a better world.
01:02:37.000 Well, now, once the university ecosystem internalizes that parasitic idea called cultural relativism, it then renders me impotent to make any judgment calls about whom I should let in to the United States.
01:02:52.000 That's why open borders becomes a form of suicidal empathy.
01:02:56.000 If I can't judge that people who throw gays off rooftops and who cut off the clitoris of five year old girls are less likely to assimilate in the United States, we end up with Dearborn and with Patterson, New Jersey, and with little Mogadishu in Minneapolis.
01:03:12.000 So it didn't start with some nefarious evil guy, but to your point, nefarious evil guys take advantage of our weaknesses today.
01:03:21.000 And also, I think it's really powerful the way you describe the layers of abstraction from reality.
01:03:27.000 So it comes from a university campus.
01:03:30.000 You're in this cloistered environment.
01:03:32.000 You're not around the full spectrum of humanity.
01:03:34.000 A common thing is like an Ivy League campus.
01:03:37.000 Everyone's pretty bright.
01:03:39.000 Everyone's pretty law abiding.
01:03:40.000 You forget what the real spectrum of human behavior is.
01:03:44.000 And then on top of that, you don't have to earn a normal living anymore.
01:03:48.000 You're often being funded by an endowment or you're getting a bunch of money from the state.
01:03:53.000 There's so many layers.
01:03:54.000 And I think about How much more of society is like that today?
01:03:58.000 The number of people who are able to get by on some form of government program as their main income.
01:04:03.000 So many people got hooked on that during COVID.
01:04:06.000 So many people who are government employees and the work they do is useless, but the federal government is vast and you can never really get rid of anything.
01:04:13.000 Think of like USAID.
01:04:15.000 Did anything USAID do, was that good for the country?
01:04:18.000 It almost didn't matter, but a lot of people in DC were making $100,000 a year off of it.
01:04:24.000 And I just think how many of these societies cancelled are because more and more people are.
01:04:30.000 In a reality that is not in the brass tacks of owning a business, producing something valuable, having to care about what is real and what is fake.
01:04:39.000 Yeah, so two points to build on what you just said.
01:04:43.000 If you look at various disciplines within the university ecosystem, there is a difference across disciplines in the extent to which particular disciplines have been infected with the parasitic mind and with suicidal empathy.
01:04:58.000 So, for example, traditionally, I've been housed in a business school.
01:05:02.000 Well, the business school and the engineering school are inherently less likely to be parasitized by this imbecility because they are tethered to reality.
01:05:12.000 In other words, if I try to build a mathematical model to explain consumer choice using lesbian dance theory, I'm going to be out of a job very quickly because it's not going to predict consumer behavior.
01:05:25.000 If I try to build a bridge in the engineering department using lesbian dance theory physics, the bridge is going to collapse.
01:05:32.000 So, by virtue of those disciplines being more coupled.
01:05:37.000 With reality, there's the autocorrective slap of reality that keeps my bull in check.
01:05:43.000 Well, then those fields are inherently more inoculated against the nonsense.
01:05:47.000 But other disciplines in the humanities and the social sciences are perfectly untethered to reality.
01:05:55.000 And therefore, the professor can get up in his wool jacket, pontificate nonsense, and there is nobody that's slapping him back to reality.
01:06:03.000 If anything, he or she gets promoted to tenure.
01:06:06.000 And so, to the second point now, Forgive me if I'm speaking too long.
01:06:10.000 I'll cede the floor in a second.
01:06:12.000 Just yesterday, thank you.
01:06:14.000 I posted a clip where I referred to a recent program by the Canadian government to hire top minds from the United States.
01:06:26.000 So, at the cost of $504 million of taxpayer funds, they hired 64 professors from American institutions, one of whom is a specialist.
01:06:39.000 He is a trans woman who specializes.
01:06:42.000 In trans philosophy, you just have to go and read this person's, you know, quote research to see in what world would it make sense for the Canadian government to endow such nonsense.
01:06:57.000 But regrettably, this is where we are in academia.
01:07:00.000 Yeah, you know, I remember one of your first interviews with Charlie.
01:07:03.000 You had this quote You said, The pesky shackles of reality.
01:07:06.000 I can say that I can fly, but as soon as I jump off the building, guess what?
01:07:10.000 Gravity is going to pull me down and reality is going to smack you straight in the whatever.
01:07:16.000 Whatever part of you hits first.
01:07:18.000 Dr. Sad, you know, we talk about the pesky shackles of reality.
01:07:22.000 It seems like we have a political ideology in this country, in the West, that it feels not at all beholden to the pesky shackles of reality.
01:07:31.000 It seems like everything they do is basically flouting creation in its face and just saying, you know, up yours.
01:07:38.000 It's kind of what it feels like.
01:07:42.000 But what's interesting is that my prediction was that the left was going to go so kooky on so many different things that basically.
01:07:50.000 Even if the right was frustrated about the war in Iran, even if the right was frustrated about the handling of Epstein or whatever, it's kind of going, hey, I can't pair up with these guys because they're just too kooky.
01:08:00.000 Instead, what we have is this refrain that the left right paradigm is over, it's dated, right?
01:08:07.000 We all have to, I think most of them are basically saying we all have to unite against Israel together because the uniparty or something.
01:08:13.000 Horseshoe theory.
01:08:15.000 Is it real?
01:08:16.000 Do you believe in it?
01:08:17.000 Do you think that's what we're seeing?
01:08:19.000 And if you don't, what is your explanation?
01:08:22.000 Well, I don't know about this horseshoe theory business.
01:08:25.000 What I can say is that one party is wedded to values that it wishes to conserve, hence conservatism, right?
01:08:35.000 And this is why, by the way, in one of my previous books, in the happiness book, I referred to a lot of research that points to the fact that there are unequivocal findings that point to the fact that conservatives are much happier than progressiveslash liberals.
01:08:53.000 And I think I offer a pretty compelling explanation, which kind of speaks to your general question.
01:08:58.000 Conservatives wake up in the morning, and their general existential stance is that, yes, we may not live in a perfect society, but there are many things that are worth conserving here freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of inquiry.
01:09:14.000 So, this is a great society to be in.
01:09:16.000 Thank God that I was born in the United States.
01:09:19.000 The progressive wakes up every day with great existential doom and gloom.
01:09:25.000 Because he or she lives in an Islamophobic, transphobic, sexist, misogynistic society where there is a genocide on trans people and black men every day by the police.
01:09:36.000 And therefore, I, as a progressive, must effect change.
01:09:41.000 Around the corner lies unicornia.
01:09:44.000 And if I could only burn everything down, we could then finally get to the final destination of unicornia.
01:09:50.000 And so I think really what animates the two parties is that reflex.
01:09:55.000 Once one says, thank God I'm American.
01:09:59.000 The other one says, God damn that I'm an American.
01:10:02.000 And therefore, that's why someone like me, to your point, when you first introduced me, you get the Lebanese guy who grew up in Canada, who is now the professor to teach American freedoms, because to be an American is to internalize those foundational principles.
01:10:20.000 There are many Americans that will never be remotely as American as I am.
01:10:28.000 I mean, I kind of agree.
01:10:29.000 It's hard for me not to agree.
01:10:31.000 And listen, I'm an immigration moratorium guy, Dr. Seth.
01:10:35.000 Sorry.
01:10:36.000 Just to be fair, not a digestive.
01:10:37.000 But it's a net zero immigration moratorium, which is what I would propose, which means there's an outflow.
01:10:42.000 We would get excellent people like you, the geniuses coming through that love our country, love our values.
01:10:47.000 I have a whole different problem with immigration, though.
01:10:49.000 I don't think we can possibly vet 1.2 million green cards every year.
01:10:52.000 You could not want to.
01:10:55.000 You would need at least one case officer for every 10 green cards.
01:10:59.000 That's what I would think, to properly vet them.
01:11:02.000 So, anyways.
01:11:02.000 That's a whole other thing.
01:11:03.000 But I do agree that we do have a history of proud immigrants that have come to this country.
01:11:08.000 They helped us win the Revolutionary War.
01:11:10.000 I mean, you could go back and forth.
01:11:11.000 They've got to love our values.
01:11:13.000 They've got to not hate the country.
01:11:14.000 But that dialectic that you're talking about between gratitude and ingratitude, basically hating America or loving America, being grateful for the opportunity of America, or just being sort of belligerently angry at everything that might not be 100% perfect, is a critical dialectic.
01:11:31.000 I felt like you were about to chime in here.
01:11:32.000 Oh, no, I just.
01:11:35.000 I don't know if that's a yes or no.
01:11:39.000 Well, we're always sensitive, of course, because it's a very common line from the people who love maximum immigration that every immigrant is actually more American than the people here.
01:11:48.000 So I know you didn't mean it in the same way they do, Dr. Sad, but there is a psychosis that treats everyone in America as a fungible creature.
01:11:59.000 You said this the other day.
01:12:00.000 I thought this was brilliant for Blake.
01:12:01.000 He said that the political left in this country is basically a replacement mechanism.
01:12:06.000 They see anything that's in place now and they want to replace it.
01:12:11.000 They want to replace our courts.
01:12:12.000 They want to replace our Senate.
01:12:13.000 They want to replace the Department of War.
01:12:15.000 They want to abolish ICE.
01:12:16.000 They want to prosecute anybody.
01:12:17.000 It explains the sheer array of forces that are in the Democrats that you have fundamentalist Muslims teaming up with radical Marxist socialists, teaming up with just general race grievance people.
01:12:33.000 And it's all a vast coalition of people who basically.
01:12:38.000 Want to destroy historic America, historic America's population, historic America's values, institutions.
01:12:44.000 It's the unification of all people who want to basically set the history book on fire because it offends them that it exists.
01:12:52.000 If I can just build on something that you said in the start of your remarks, Blake, of course, I'm not saying that all immigrants are more American than Americans, but let me build on my point.
01:13:05.000 It's not a coincidence that many of the most Vociferous defenders of American values are immigrants.
01:13:14.000 And let me explain why.
01:13:16.000 Because we have sampled from the large buffet of societies.
01:13:21.000 And therefore, we know that the freedoms that most Americans presume to be the default value in any society is not the default value, right?
01:13:30.000 That's why this thing called American exceptionalism exists.
01:13:34.000 It's a small bleep in human history to have created a society like the one that America has created.
01:13:41.000 Therefore, it takes an Ayan Hersey Ali or a Gadsad.
01:13:45.000 She grew up in Somalia and in Saudi Arabia and so on.
01:13:49.000 And Gadsad grew up in Lebanon to come and say, hey, guys, don't take those freedoms for granted.
01:13:55.000 There's always a monster that's coming to erase your freedoms.
01:13:59.000 And so it's in that sense that I meant that many of the biggest defenders are those who weren't born in the United States.
01:14:07.000 Oh, I totally agree with this, by the way.
01:14:08.000 What you're saying is completely true.
01:14:10.000 Having the Alexis de Tocqueville's of the world come in and observe the country and its exceptionalism, it's true whether you want to admit it or not.
01:14:20.000 Even if you're an immigration moratorium advocate like I am, that when you have outside eyes to look at what God has given America and the providential hand of God and the freedoms that we have been bestowed upon us by our founders and our amazing institutions and our history and our heritage.
01:14:36.000 You see it with eyes I simply cannot.
01:14:39.000 Now, that being said, I traveled a lot after college and I was abroad for years.
01:14:44.000 And all I wanted when I was done, it was like I had this travel bug.
01:14:47.000 I got done and I was like, I want to come back home.
01:14:50.000 I want to build here.
01:14:51.000 It made me love my country in a profoundly new way.
01:14:58.000 All right, Dr. Sad, we're on the far side of the end of the live show.
01:15:03.000 So we talked about suicidal empathy for the past 20 minutes.
01:15:06.000 Now we have to talk about, sadly, homicidal empathy.
01:15:10.000 So this Lindsey Clancy case, we'd be interested just in your psychological read of what is driving what appears to be millions of people, mostly women, but not exclusively so, to have that impulse to say, this woman who murdered.
01:15:30.000 Three of her children in a pretty gruesome way, strangling them to death one by one.
01:15:36.000 That we side with her.
01:15:37.000 We don't want her convicted of murder.
01:15:39.000 She might, they maybe think she should be a free woman outright.
01:15:43.000 We're seeing this manifest a lot.
01:15:45.000 What do you think is the psychological driver of this?
01:15:48.000 So I'm going to first answer in a broader way, then we come back to her case.
01:15:53.000 So in Suicidal Empathy, in one of the chapters, I talk about blank slate felons.
01:15:59.000 And let me explain what I mean by that.
01:16:01.000 Blank slatism is the idea in psychology that we are all born tabula rasa, empty minds, with no biological imperatives, with no differences across people in potentiality.
01:16:16.000 And it is only some environmental factors, it could be socialization, it could be a bad upbringing, it could be whatever it is, that then leads us down our unique trajectories.
01:16:27.000 So let's apply it now to felons of color.
01:16:31.000 Well, if you are suicidally empathetic and you subscribe to this idea of blank slate felons, then the black guy who has been arrested for only the 197th time, what is the point of you punishing him?
01:16:46.000 He was already born in a white supremacist society, so existentially he's been punished.
01:16:53.000 Don't you think you should be a bit empathetic and give this guy another chance?
01:16:58.000 And by other chance, I only mean 197th other chance.
01:17:02.000 And so that reflex then manifests itself in the case of this woman, right?
01:17:08.000 She couldn't be personally responsible for what she did.
01:17:14.000 There must be some external factor because we are all born tabula rasa with equal beautiful morality, equal likelihood to live in kumbaya.
01:17:24.000 And in her case, maybe it was her hormones, maybe it was her postpartum depression, maybe it was her bad upbringing where her father didn't hug her enough.
01:17:33.000 There is always an external reason for why I committed the debauchery that I did.
01:17:39.000 Once you internalize that message, you remove personal agency from people.
01:17:44.000 So you then don't intervene with the homeless.
01:17:48.000 You don't intervene with repeat recidivist criminals.
01:17:51.000 You don't punish this mother who, you know, snuffed out the life of three beautiful children.
01:17:57.000 So it really comes from the internalization of the blank slate premise.
01:18:02.000 So we have this clip here, Dr. Sad, that this is the new part of the story here.
01:18:07.000 56 year old Lindsey Clancy jury intimidator, Dawn Light.
01:18:13.000 She's being sworn by the press in this clip, but I got to watch it because it's really remarkable what people are driven to in these moments where they get whooped up in this social media fervor.
01:18:24.000 Sot 21.
01:18:25.000 The state of Massachusetts is handling it very seriously.
01:18:28.000 She faces up to potentially 20 years in prison because of this.
01:18:32.000 She pleaded not guilty.
01:18:33.000 This is her leaving her arraignment earlier this morning.
01:18:36.000 But Donna, there's so much national attention on this case.
01:18:39.000 The jurors have not been sequestered.
01:18:41.000 And prosecutors allege she was there filming them all.
01:18:45.000 So up to 20 years for jury intimidation.
01:18:48.000 And you got to laugh at the irony of her situation here, right?
01:18:51.000 So she's filming them, intimidating them allegedly.
01:18:56.000 And then she, next day, she's already arraigned and she's getting swarmed by a bunch of people filming her.
01:19:01.000 She's got the mob all on her.
01:19:02.000 So that's kind of ironic.
01:19:04.000 And I think good for them.
01:19:05.000 Good for them for taking it seriously.
01:19:07.000 But the dramatic lengths.
01:19:10.000 I mean, this, you know, I think, who was it?
01:19:12.000 It was Dr. Robert Malone, I think, coined that phrase, mass psychosis, mass, you know, whatever.
01:19:17.000 But this is uniquely targeting, it seems, like females.
01:19:22.000 And I don't think women understand how this whole Lindsey Clancy case is making males, men think about women.
01:19:29.000 There's a lot of anti female sentiment.
01:19:31.000 I mean, I know you're on X, Dr. Sad.
01:19:32.000 There's a lot of anti women sentiment on X right now.
01:19:36.000 And some of it's coming from women, by the way, to be fair.
01:19:39.000 I just, I got to press you.
01:19:42.000 Why do you think we're seeing the gender divide here?
01:19:46.000 Why is it so pronounced?
01:19:47.000 Well, again, so if you remember very early in suicidal empathy in the book, I offered three mechanisms that yield to suicidal empathy.
01:19:59.000 Number one, there has to be.
01:20:00.000 The hyperactivation of empathy, right?
01:20:04.000 It misfires by hyper firing.
01:20:07.000 It has to be triggered in the wrong situation towards the wrong targets, right?
01:20:13.000 And so when you are more empathetic towards the one who killed the three children than you are towards the three children who were killed, that is a manifestation of suicidal empathy.
01:20:26.000 And let me link it to another criminal context.
01:20:30.000 I discuss many, many examples in the book where.
01:20:34.000 The rape victims exhibit great empathy and sympathy for their rapists.
01:20:41.000 These are terrible.
01:20:42.000 Yeah, these are terrible.
01:20:44.000 And let me mention one example, then we can come back to the Clancy story.
01:20:48.000 A woman goes to Haiti, to Port au Prince, the capital of Haiti.
01:20:53.000 She's a white, liberal, enlightened woman, a lot kinder and more empathetic than the three of us here.
01:20:58.000 And she wants to dismantle the idea that black men are violent.
01:21:04.000 In any way, because we have absolutely no evidence in the world that a black man has ever committed any violence.
01:21:10.000 And the only reason why black men in the United States commit violence is because it's a response to the white supremacist society that they have lived in.
01:21:20.000 Therefore, if she can go to Haiti, where hopefully they're not prone to the white supremacist Americans, then she could see that all of the black men in Haiti are all lovely.
01:21:30.000 Well, then she gets slapped by this thing called reality, where a Haitian man takes her to the top of a rooftop.
01:21:37.000 And then rapes her violently all night.
01:21:39.000 Now, you would think that that might alter her original premise, her a priori hypothesis.
01:21:45.000 Well, she then wrote an essay after she returned to the United States where she said, You ready?
01:21:51.000 Drum roll.
01:21:53.000 She was thankful for the experience because it made her realize that that guy in Port au Prince, Haiti, had so much inherent hatred towards white supremacy that he used her body to express that rage.
01:22:10.000 Well, if that woman who's been violently raped. Can empathize with her rapist, then surely tons of women are going to empathize if they are suicidally empathetic with the killer of those three children.
01:22:24.000 It's the same mechanism playing out in slightly different contexts.
01:22:28.000 People have speculated on interesting stuff.
01:22:31.000 We discussed, for example, does it matter psychologically that Lindsey Clancy looks like she's a little bit attractive, but not too attractive?
01:22:42.000 She's like a five or a six?
01:22:43.000 Yeah, that if she was very attractive, they would turn on her.
01:22:46.000 If she was ugly, they would turn on her.
01:22:49.000 But I mean, another example that came to mind is I've argued if you took the exact same pattern of medication, the exact same pattern of kind of mental health episodes, and then, but if Lindsey Clancy had been a 19 year old male who'd done a school shooting, who said, I took these pills, had psychosis, I grabbed a rifle, and I shot up a kindergarten.
01:23:09.000 None of us would, for even 10 seconds, consider this argument.
01:23:13.000 It does feel like you need a specific profile of victim in this case.
01:23:20.000 For this all to get whipped up.
01:23:21.000 Yeah, absolutely correct.
01:23:24.000 Look, I studied in various settings how hormones affect both men's behaviors and women's behaviors.
01:23:32.000 So, for example, I've done research looking at how where a woman is in her menstrual cycle affects a wide slew of her behaviors.
01:23:43.000 The way that she beautifies herself varies depending on where she is in her ovulatory cycle.
01:23:49.000 Not surprisingly, when she is in the maximally fertile phase of her.
01:23:53.000 Menstrual cycle, this is when she is most likely to beautify herself.
01:23:57.000 The types of foods that women are either attracted to or not vary depending on where they are in their menstrual cycle.
01:24:04.000 So, of course, our hormones affect our behaviors, right?
01:24:09.000 If a man has a rise in his testosterone, he's more likely to become aggressive and belligerent and a greater risk taker.
01:24:18.000 So, no one is contesting the fact that hormones have downstream effects on our behavior.
01:24:24.000 But to then use that as a justification, well, you know, I had postpartum depression or this or that.
01:24:30.000 Listen, I'm married, I've had children, I've seen the hormonal changes that my wife went through.
01:24:35.000 Well, apparently, thank God she didn't kill our children.
01:24:38.000 So, again, I'm not belittling the fact that people can suffer from mental health situations that may render them criminally not responsible.
01:24:47.000 I'm not sure if her case rises to that level.
01:24:50.000 So, Dr. Sad, I'm going to ask you a controversial question because I have a controversial take on this.
01:24:57.000 I believe that gender roles are really important.
01:25:01.000 I think my wife would tell you this the fact that we've been married for over a decade and I have really strong opinions.
01:25:11.000 As Christians, she thinks of me as the head of the household.
01:25:13.000 I don't lord that over her.
01:25:16.000 It's not like that.
01:25:16.000 That's not our vibe or energy.
01:25:18.000 But I will tell you if my wife came home and she was feeling sympathetic towards Lindsey Clancy, we would have an immediate conversation about that and I would probably put her in her place.
01:25:27.000 And I would take it very seriously and tell her why she's wrong.
01:25:29.000 Now, thankfully, my wife has her common sense.
01:25:33.000 But here's the big, long, and short of that.
01:25:36.000 I think what we are suffering through is a complete lack and a deprivation in society of strong male leadership, both at the home and in the institutions.
01:25:46.000 We've had Helen Andrews on the show.
01:25:48.000 She talks about the great awakening because it's the over feminization of our institutions, of the workforce, of higher ed.
01:25:55.000 How critically important is it that we get this back to a place of sanity and normalcy?
01:26:00.000 Because men are opting out.
01:26:02.000 What can we do?
01:26:02.000 And can we?
01:26:03.000 Or are they like the locusts that come through the field and are they just going to consume everything good and beautiful and true because of their feelings in the longhouse?
01:26:11.000 I mean, I love women.
01:26:12.000 I am a respecter of women.
01:26:14.000 There are amazing women, there are strong women, but men need to be leaders.
01:26:17.000 I'm telling you, I'm very convinced that this is the case.
01:26:20.000 And a lot of the ills we're seeing in society is a result of complicity from men, sins of omission, of not being strong leaders and not being in the home.
01:26:28.000 Fantastic question.
01:26:29.000 So let me now break it down for you from an evolutionary psychology perspective.
01:26:34.000 Which is sort of my bread and butter academic research area.
01:26:39.000 We are a sexually dimorphic, sexually reproducing species.
01:26:43.000 What does that mean?
01:26:44.000 Sexually dimorphic means that human beings are innately different in terms of some of the traits of male and female.
01:26:53.000 There are other species that are not sexually dimorphic.
01:26:56.000 There are some bird species, some, for example, penguin species, where you literally can't tell unless you do a close inspection.
01:27:04.000 Who is male and who is female?
01:27:06.000 So, some species are very dimorphic.
01:27:08.000 And by the way, there are what's called sex role reversal species, where it is the females that are larger, bigger, more testosterone.
01:27:18.000 So, for example, the kaswari bird, the male sits on the eggs, the females build a harem of males.
01:27:26.000 So, there is a biological explanation for why sexual dimorphism exists in human beings and why there is a thing called male and female.
01:27:38.000 So, having said all that, we can then study human mating preferences across endless societies, societies that couldn't be any more different from each other.
01:27:48.000 And what we repeatedly find is that the types of attributes that men look for in women and vice versa are shockingly similar across all cultures and across all time periods.
01:28:02.000 Now, there might be slight variations, but the general patterns of preferred attributes are exactly the same.
01:28:09.000 Men are much more likely to put a greater weight.
01:28:12.000 On physical beauty and youth, for very obvious evolutionary reasons, women are much more likely to put much greater weight on any attribute that correlates with your ability to ascend the social hierarchy and maintain your position in that social hierarchy.
01:28:30.000 Now, here's where cross cultural differences can arise.
01:28:34.000 In some cultures, the number of cattle heads that I have makes me the top dog in that culture.
01:28:39.000 In other cultures, it's whether I have an Ivy League degree and many zeros in my bank account.
01:28:45.000 But in no culture does a woman ever say the following You ready?
01:28:50.000 I want a pear shaped, nasal voiced guy who sucks his thumb while watching Bridget Jones' diary and has a really hearty cry if his pants are too tight because he's put on weight.
01:29:03.000 No woman has ever fantasized over that guy.
01:29:10.000 Therefore, this is why these parasitic ideas are so fundamentally, existentially destructive.
01:29:19.000 To male female dynamics, because we are teaching, for example, women that no, you should do exactly what a man does.
01:29:27.000 If he wants to have unrestrained sex, you have the right to do it too, girl.
01:29:32.000 Burn your bras and do it.
01:29:34.000 Now, of course, you've got the right to do it, but does that mean that women would be equally pleased with mating with 100 guys 100 days in a row that they pick up randomly at the bar?
01:29:46.000 No.
01:29:47.000 So promulgating ideas. That are contrary to human nature will always fail.
01:29:54.000 And please forgive me if I could take one more minute to give you an example.
01:29:57.000 Of course.
01:29:58.000 If you wish to study the archetype of what women desire, what they fantasize about, you know which product you should study?
01:30:08.000 Can you think which one it is?
01:30:08.000 Yes, I know what it is.
01:30:10.000 It's the trashy romance novels that they buy at Walmart.
01:30:14.000 Look at you.
01:30:15.000 You're exactly right, my dear.
01:30:16.000 They're getting way trashier over time, too.
01:30:18.000 Yeah.
01:30:18.000 Hold on.
01:30:19.000 Did I get it?
01:30:20.000 You got it exactly right.
01:30:22.000 You get an A in my evolutionary psychology course.
01:30:24.000 And let me explain why.
01:30:26.000 It literally is as though every single romance novel that has ever been created was plagiarized from an original template, which is the male hero, to my great chagrin, because I'm not tall, is a tall guy who is a prince and a neurosurgeon.
01:30:47.000 He's got glistening six pack abs.
01:30:51.000 He wrestles alligators and Makes them submit to his will, but he can only be tamed by the love of this one good woman.
01:31:00.000 I just described for you every single male protagonist that's ever existed in any novel, romance.
01:31:09.000 You might be surprised, Dr. Sad.
01:31:12.000 It's gotten a little more wild lately.
01:31:13.000 You're forgetting at this point he's now also a werewolf or a minotaur.
01:31:19.000 You're also describing every Hallmark film, which is hilarious.
01:31:21.000 Like the Hallmark film where, you know, the big city girl, she left her small town and then.
01:31:27.000 Her mom calls her back and says, You got to come home for Christmas.
01:31:31.000 And she doesn't want to go back because she's the big city girl.
01:31:33.000 And she comes back in this lowly provincial town and meets the guy and sees the guy that she grew up with that was really a dork.
01:31:41.000 But now he's grown up.
01:31:42.000 And oh, by the way, he's a lumberjack.
01:31:46.000 And then he's wild and she does tame him.
01:31:49.000 And then at the end, she finds out, Oh, lo and behold, he's a multimillionaire with an international scented candle business.
01:31:57.000 And they live happily ever after.
01:31:58.000 And the rock's huge.
01:32:00.000 But you're totally right.
01:32:02.000 There is the archetype that does exist.
01:32:05.000 But back to my original point, Dr. Said, men need to be stronger and exert more influence in this culture.
01:32:12.000 I am completely convinced.
01:32:14.000 We hear all about the patriarchy.
01:32:16.000 We hear about toxic masculinity.
01:32:18.000 We hear about, you know, women are this protected class and every DEI initiative supports them.
01:32:23.000 By the way, we make a big deal about, like, you know, different races or ethnicities or sexual preference.
01:32:29.000 It fights for women, too.
01:32:30.000 But we are at a point where it's like 62% of UCLA's undergrad or something like that is female.
01:32:36.000 Like, we have way overshot the mark.
01:32:39.000 And now they're earning more money than men.
01:32:41.000 All this stuff.
01:32:41.000 Women want to marry a man that makes more than him or her.
01:32:46.000 So, there's.
01:32:46.000 Throwing it all out of balance.
01:32:47.000 Everything's out.
01:32:48.000 Like, how do we get back to a point where our institutions, male leadership in the home, male leadership, it's important.
01:32:55.000 I'm not saying you can't have only male leadership.
01:32:57.000 It's a yin and yang, it's a balance, it's a homeostasis.
01:33:00.000 But we're out of whack.
01:33:02.000 Yeah, well, we certainly have to eradicate.
01:33:05.000 Those idea pathogens that allow people to internalize these beliefs that are so contrary to human nature, right?
01:33:11.000 I mean, this is why I do all of the public engagement that I do, right?
01:33:15.000 I don't just critique Islam.
01:33:18.000 I critique radical feminism.
01:33:20.000 I critique postmodernism.
01:33:22.000 I critique trans activism that is completely decoupled from reality.
01:33:26.000 Men too can menstruate.
01:33:27.000 Men too can bear children.
01:33:29.000 And so that's why all these parasitic ideas are so dreadful because they literally erase, eviscerate all of the most fundamental fabric of our human nature.
01:33:40.000 Look, I receive a million emails from women, and let me just kind of paraphrase and summarize them.
01:33:46.000 Hey, Professor Saad, I know that you're a big evolutionary psychology guy and you understand male female dynamics.
01:33:52.000 How come I go to a bar to meet a lovely guy and not a single guy approaches me?
01:33:58.000 And I'm a beautiful woman, I'm ready to mix and mingle, and none of the guys are there.
01:34:03.000 No real men left around?
01:34:05.000 Well, if you tell a man that if he comes up to you and compliments you, that is a form of verbal rape, then don't be surprised that the man is going to be reticent to approach you, right?
01:34:17.000 If it becomes a type of sexual harassment, if I tell a colleague, my God, you look radiant in that lovely dress, if I no longer have the reflex to share such a beautiful compliment, then it's not surprising that men and women are going to have a hard time meeting one another.
01:34:36.000 So radical feminism really did a number on women because it taught them to internalize all of the beliefs that would lead to their unhappiness downstairs.
01:34:46.000 Exactly.
01:34:47.000 And Dr. Sad, if you just spend some time with our students, And they got social media in the mix of that.
01:34:53.000 A young guy goes up to a girl, gets rejected, and then she humiliates him on social media.
01:34:58.000 It's like that on steroids.
01:34:59.000 It's terrible out there for these kids.
01:35:01.000 I feel my heart goes out to them in such a huge way because this generation's up against stuff that we haven't seen before.
01:35:10.000 And we're experimenting with their brains and with their fertility and with their relationships with social media.
01:35:16.000 Dr. Gad said, We could go on forever.
01:35:18.000 I know we could, but this is you've already been so generous with your time.
01:35:21.000 You are the author of Suicidal Empathy.
01:35:24.000 The Smash bestseller, 10 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list.
01:35:28.000 Congratulations, Dr. Gad Sad.
01:35:30.000 And of course, Parasitic Mind, which was you did a great job of pairing those together, part one, part two almost.
01:35:36.000 So buy both of them.
01:35:38.000 We appreciate your contribution, your courage.
01:35:40.000 I was going to ask you about Israel, but you know what?
01:35:43.000 Let's just save that for another time.
01:35:45.000 Yeah, exactly.
01:35:46.000 God bless you, sir, and we'll talk to you next time.
01:35:49.000 Thank you, guys.
01:35:49.000 It was a delight.
01:35:50.000 Cheers.
01:35:55.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.com.