The Charlie Kirk Show - Why Young Men are Going Right with Sen. Eric Schmitt and Alan Dershowitz

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:01.000 Can you believe it?

00:00:02.000 Young men are becoming conservative in an amazing rate.

00:00:05.000 Thank you, TurningpointUSA, tpusa.com, tpusa.com.

00:00:09.000 Get involved and support us.

00:00:11.000 Then we have Alan Dershowitz on the Trump indictments and Senator Eric Schmidt on why there is a war on white people in the American military.

00:00:21.000 Email me, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast, get involved at turningpointusa at tpusa.com.

00:00:28.000 That is tpusa.com.

00:00:29.000 Start a high school or college chapter today at tpusa.com and support our program at charliekirk.com slash support, charliekirk.com slash support.

00:00:39.000 Listen to the end of this episode for some giveaway opportunities and text this episode to your friends and give us a five-star review.

00:00:45.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:46.000 Here we go.

00:00:47.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:48.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:51.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:54.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:57.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:58.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:59.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:08.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:16.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:20.000 Brought to you by the Loan Experts I Trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandTodd.com.

00:01:30.000 Joining us now is Senator Eric Schmidt from the great state of Missouri.

00:01:35.000 Honored to have him here.

00:01:36.000 He has been leading the charge very effectively against Charles Brown, who is Biden's selection to become the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

00:01:48.000 Very important position.

00:01:50.000 Senator Schmidt has been hammering him because Charles Brown set racial quotas for the Air Force to massively slash the number of white male officers down to just 43%.

00:02:03.000 One of his motives for doing so, no joke, is that he's bitter about getting questioned over his reserved parking spaces and blames racism.

00:02:11.000 I tweeted this.

00:02:12.000 There is only one quota that should exist in the U.S. military.

00:02:15.000 100% of officers should be the best candidate available, promoting that ability, not race or chromosomes.

00:02:21.000 Let's play CUT 22, then we'll welcome the senator. 0.98

00:02:23.000 General, do we have too many white officers in the Air Force? 0.89

00:02:28.000 Senator, what I really look at is the quality of all the officers that we have. 0.71

00:02:32.000 And we look at the aspect of everyone who's qualified.

00:02:36.000 Well, I would agree with you, but that answer is not consistent with your August 9th memo. 0.53

00:02:41.000 You said that you signed on to that there should be a reduction, essentially, of about 9% of the white officers. 0.74

00:02:49.000 That's 5,400, you know, too many white officers.

00:02:54.000 Senator, that is based on the, that memo is on application goals, not the actual makeup of the force.

00:03:00.000 And those numbers are based on the demographics of the nation.

00:03:05.000 Demographics and the nation?

00:03:07.000 That's strange.

00:03:08.000 I don't think that's right.

00:03:09.000 Senator Schmidt, thank you for your courageous line of questioning.

00:03:12.000 Fill us in from your perspective.

00:03:14.000 Charles Brown, should he be the next chairman of the Joint Chiefs?

00:03:18.000 He doesn't have my support.

00:03:19.000 No.

00:03:20.000 And I think that this is what's troubling about all this, Charlie, is that the Biden administration, who is obsessed with racial quotas and this race essentialism and this divisive DEI, you know, these trainings, these sort of struggle sessions that are rooted in cultural Marxism have no place at all in our military.

00:03:42.000 But the Democrats, they want to politicize everything.

00:03:44.000 I mean, what's further in that clip is there's 8,500 well-trained men and women of our armed services who are fired because they didn't get a COVID vaccine.

00:03:52.000 They're not doing anything to recruit those folks either.

00:03:55.000 But getting back to this DEI stuff, it's just toxic.

00:03:58.000 Essentially, the military has been the greatest meritocracy in the world.

00:04:02.000 People from every socioeconomic background, race, gender, whatever can achieve great things, right?

00:04:07.000 You've got there's ticker tape parades being held for people who came from the lowest rung of the economic ladder because they did great things.

00:04:15.000 And there's a reason why they wear uniforms.

00:04:16.000 There's a reason why they had the same haircuts.

00:04:19.000 It's to build cohesion.

00:04:21.000 So this idea that you're going to be separating people by the races or hiring people or not hiring people because of their skin color goes backwards.

00:04:30.000 And so he has a memo that I questioned about at that hearing of just last year that essentially sets racial quotas for officers.

00:04:37.000 And the practical result of that, Charlie, is essentially there's 5,400 people that if you follow this logic, under his point of view, should be fired.

00:04:47.000 You know, and we're dealing with a confidence issue now in the military.

00:04:50.000 We're dealing with recruiting challenges.

00:04:53.000 I believe we should be reaching far and wide, recruiting everybody who wants to serve.

00:04:58.000 But that's very different.

00:04:59.000 That's not DEI.

00:05:00.000 DEI is something very different than that.

00:05:02.000 And I think part of this is educating people about what it is.

00:05:04.000 And also that the Department of Defense and the Biden administration is just held in on injecting all this divisive stuff in the military and they shouldn't.

00:05:11.000 Well, and I just see this contradiction, if I may, Senator, which is many people in D.C. are clamoring for conflict abroad.

00:05:20.000 They say that China might take Taiwan, which I certainly don't think happens.

00:05:24.000 What's going on in Eastern Ukraine while simultaneously trying to destroy our own military? 0.81

00:05:27.000 I don't know how those things could simultaneously exist. 0.63

00:05:30.000 I don't want more foreign intervention, but if I did, I would also want the best possible military, right?

00:05:36.000 So it's as if we're getting involved in these quagmires abroad while we're making decisions that will obviously make us less prepared to fight our adversaries or whatever war might be looming.

00:05:47.000 In private, do you think there's enough support from senators to block this guy? 0.56

00:05:54.000 I mean, we should be able to have a joint chief of staff that doesn't want to displace white officers from their positions. 0.68

00:06:00.000 Right.

00:06:01.000 I can't actually believe we're even having this conversation, right?

00:06:05.000 That somebody's been nominated that's advocated for racial quotas.

00:06:07.000 And look, he's had a distinguished career.

00:06:09.000 I'm not taking anything away from him.

00:06:10.000 It's crew, but when it comes to leadership, like when you're in a leadership position now where you're sort of setting policy goals, and that's what that position would be, you can't have somebody in my view that's advocating for racial quotas, essentially discrimination.

00:06:25.000 That's what it is.

00:06:26.000 And I think we got to call it out.

00:06:27.000 So you're right.

00:06:27.000 There's a priority misalignment here.

00:06:29.000 I mean, you know, there are people who want to send, you know, over $100 billion to Ukraine who don't want to have us spend the money to secure our own southern border.

00:06:37.000 You know, our military has to be focused in a laser-like way on protecting the homeland, right? 0.94

00:06:45.000 Lethality and understanding the threat that China poses. 1.00

00:06:49.000 That's kind of how I sympathize with that. 1.00

00:06:52.000 And it's just, I find it interesting because there is widespread agreement in Congress to basically increase the likelihood that we might have a kinetic war, you know, in Europe while also diminishing our own military.

00:07:05.000 Senator, I am curious, though, in private, in the hallway, when you talk to your Democrat senator colleagues, do they even acknowledge that this is absolutely insane?

00:07:13.000 I mean, I can't imagine that an honest person thinks that this is a good idea for military preparedness to defend the homeland.

00:07:21.000 Well, I'll tell you, I mean, I'm on the Armed Services Committee.

00:07:24.000 There are no Democrats that even raise this issue.

00:07:26.000 This is just not, this isn't something that they care about.

00:07:29.000 They are perfectly willing to go along with this idea of DEI sort of indoctrination everywhere.

00:07:35.000 I mean, you see it in our schools with CRT.

00:07:37.000 You see it in our schools with a lot of this.

00:07:40.000 I mean, so there isn't any institution, I guess, that's immune from this divisibility into politics that the Democrats want to interject.

00:07:46.000 And of course, the mainstream media, Charlie, you know, comes after Republicans.

00:07:50.000 Republicans pounce when we're the ones, well, you know, me, I'll just use now, I'm not going to speak for anybody else, trying to pull this stuff out, right?

00:07:58.000 I don't want our military politicized.

00:08:00.000 I want them to be the best fighting force they can be to protect our country.

00:08:03.000 Well, no, and this shouldn't be something that it's turned into where all of a sudden it's some sort of divisive issue.

00:08:11.000 But I will tell you, Charlie, I will say one victory in the NDAA that came out of the Senate.

00:08:18.000 We did get an, I got an amendment on that stops DEI hirings, and Joe Manchin voted for that.

00:08:26.000 So I think if you get people to actually have to vote, you start to see the fallacy of all this stuff and how toxic it really is.

00:08:36.000 So my view is: let's have all these amendments voted on, see where people are at, because I think the pressure of actually having to be accountable to the people you represent on these things is important, which is why you can't allow the administrative state and the executive overreach to supplant the importance of the Article I branch Congress actually making policy, right?

00:08:58.000 Nobody in Congress ever voted for these DEI stuff, ever.

00:09:01.000 And if it's such a good idea, we should vote on it.

00:09:04.000 I would vote no, but that's not what the Biden administration is doing.

00:09:06.000 Well, I think that's such an important point, which is, okay, John Tester, like you run these stupid advertisements on Montana television relentlessly from now till next November of you pretending to pheasant hunt, even though you haven't pulled a hunter's license, you know, a license in the last 10 years. 0.97

00:09:22.000 Why don't you go vote on having less white people just for racial quotas? 0.98

00:09:28.000 I think that's so smart. 0.90

00:09:29.000 What you're getting at, though, is we have to force their radicalism and expose it with votes, amendments, and sunlight.

00:09:36.000 Final thoughts, Senator.

00:09:37.000 Absolutely.

00:09:38.000 And we got to get the power back with the people because no one supports this.

00:09:42.000 I mean, there's some people, but people don't want our military politicized.

00:09:45.000 They don't want people, you know, they don't want racially discriminatory policies where if you're white, you can't advance or there's too many white officers.

00:09:52.000 This stuff is toxic. 0.99

00:09:53.000 It's poison.

00:09:54.000 So we're going to keep fighting back and raise the issue.

00:09:56.000 I appreciate you.

00:09:57.000 Well, no, also really quick, preview your free speech legislation.

00:10:00.000 My team tells you you got something cool coming there.

00:10:02.000 Oh, yeah.

00:10:03.000 So as you know, I had the Missouri versus Biden case that preceded Twitter files and all these hearings.

00:10:07.000 All this stuff's good because it's bringing to light this vast censorship enterprise.

00:10:12.000 And so we're going to have legislation that not only do big tech companies lose their Section 230 protections if they violate people's First Amendment rights, but you also a private right of action against individual government actors if they do it, making sure they can't collude with universities like Stanford, University of Washington, and hide some of this censorship activity.

00:10:32.000 We've got to get at the private side, the government side, and protect people's First Amendment rights at all costs.

00:10:32.000 But we've got to get at it.

00:10:37.000 Senator, you're doing a great job.

00:10:38.000 I want to encourage you.

00:10:39.000 Your line of questioning was bold and precise and very effective.

00:10:42.000 Thank you for that and keep it up.

00:10:44.000 Thanks so much.

00:10:45.000 Thanks, Charlie.

00:10:45.000 Take care.

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00:11:52.000 We have some good news.

00:11:54.000 For 11 years, Turning Point USA has been working, and we've been working.

00:12:00.000 In fact, we started our educational efforts to try and turn, get it, millennials to be less Marxist.

00:12:08.000 They were supposed to be the most progressive generation in history.

00:12:12.000 Well, now millennials have moved by nearly 20 or 30 points to be almost a 50-50 generation.

00:12:18.000 But of course, the people that sit on Twitter and do nothing, they say, oh, Charlie, you have this big organization.

00:12:23.000 What are you doing at all with Generation Z?

00:12:26.000 The answer is we've been getting to work.

00:12:27.000 We have by far the largest, because it's the only, investment with high school leadership and chapter development in the history of the conservative movement.

00:12:36.000 We have over 60 full-time people.

00:12:38.000 That's right, 60 full-time people just in our high school department.

00:12:42.000 Well, over 75 in our college department.

00:12:46.000 That's 135 just on our high school and college department together, full-time people.

00:12:50.000 No one has made that investment in the grassroots and the field troops like Turning Point USA.

00:12:55.000 We knew that high schoolers needed to be developed, communicated to through social media, podcasting, and yes, the good old-fashioned organizing, chapter development.

00:13:06.000 We started our Turning Point USA high school department a couple years ago, and it has been growing rapidly.

00:13:12.000 Because we believe that Generation Z, there's no reason why Gen Z has to be nearly as liberal as the elites predicted.

00:13:22.000 So we went to work.

00:13:23.000 And in fact, right now, we could put up the picture on screen.

00:13:25.000 We're hiring another 50 full-time people this week.

00:13:28.000 We're actually onboarding them.

00:13:29.000 That's right there, new hire training at Turning Point USA, while other groups are sitting around on their hands doing nothing, complaining, sitting in Washington, D.C., having high-priced dinners or whatever they do, taking your money and lying to you.

00:13:41.000 That's the grassroots.

00:13:42.000 That's 50 full-time new people right now at Turning Point USA headquarters, new hire training.

00:13:47.000 That's just for high school and college campuses.

00:13:51.000 And I woke up this morning to a remarkable piece on thehill.com.

00:13:54.000 Because you might say, Charlie, that's all fine, but show me the goods, as Jerry Maguire would say.

00:13:59.000 Show me the money.

00:14:01.000 Thehill.com, high school boys are trending conservative.

00:14:06.000 You see, the narrative is that all young people are liberal.

00:14:10.000 High school boys are more conservative than any time since 1975.

00:14:20.000 In fact, high school boys became majority liberal in the year of 2000, 2005, 2008.

00:14:30.000 And now they are a majority conservative.

00:14:33.000 In fact, only 12% of high school boys identify as liberal.

00:14:38.000 And they're probably the metrosexual boys anyway.

00:14:41.000 Probably the skinny gene boys.

00:14:43.000 The actual young men that want a future, meaning, and purpose are not just drifting to the right.

00:14:50.000 They are coming to the conservative movement in huge numbers. 0.83

00:14:52.000 Now, the bad news, and you have to be honest about it, is the young women are more liberal than ever, ever, because liberalism is rooted in complaining and young girls love to complain. 0.99

00:15:03.000 So obviously it's built for them. 0.93

00:15:05.000 Young men want a future.

00:15:08.000 Liberalism is rooted in emotionalism. 1.00

00:15:10.000 They manipulate young ladies.

00:15:12.000 By the way, it's not, not all hope is lost. 0.97

00:15:14.000 We have our Young Women's Leadership Summit.

00:15:16.000 We have 2,700 young women there. 0.91

00:15:19.000 Progressivism speaks to the feelings and the emotion to a naive young lady who believes the world is rigged against them. 0.69

00:15:27.000 Progressivism speaks to their idea of that you're going to need to terminate your child and pro-choice and transgender politics.

00:15:35.000 Men are not believing in that, though.

00:15:37.000 Men know the game is rigged against them, especially young white men.

00:15:41.000 They say timeout.

00:15:42.000 Racial quotas, affirmative action, abolish whiteness, military standards, diversity, equity, inclusion. 0.66

00:15:49.000 By the way, black men too, young black men are drifting to the right. 0.74

00:15:52.000 And you see this, by the way, in the rise of Andrew Tate.

00:15:55.000 Again, Andrew Tate is not someone to be, let's say, elevated on his own personal life, but what he says is very interesting: decline of masculinity, taking responsibility for your life.

00:16:06.000 And now the macro trend is showing it.

00:16:08.000 At Turning Point USA, we are doing the work to save America.

00:16:12.000 There's other groups that are doing stuff too.

00:16:13.000 No one is working hard as Turning Point USA.

00:16:16.000 No one is having it as their daily mission, the drumbeat, to move the dial.

00:16:22.000 It shows that there is this massive hunger and we are not going to give up.

00:16:25.000 This is why the media attacks Turning Point USA so much and Turning Point Action.

00:16:30.000 This is why they come after us so much.

00:16:32.000 And by the way, women are wired to be more emotional, and liberal policies appeal to their emotions. 0.99

00:16:38.000 The women project's a whole different thing. 0.97

00:16:40.000 Men are rational, hopefully so, in their politics. 0.97

00:16:45.000 Not that women are necessarily irrational, but honestly, if you believe that men can give birth and you vote for that, go to the left. 0.78

00:16:53.000 Women, oh, why can't we let everyone in? 1.00

00:16:55.000 It's the man's job to say no, as Andrew Tate would say. 0.95

00:16:59.000 No, we're not going to let in 5 million people.

00:17:01.000 No, we're not going to abolish fossil fuels.

00:17:04.000 No, we're not going to castrate kids.

00:17:06.000 We need more masculine energy in our politics. 1.00

00:17:09.000 And Generation Z, high school kids at a high watermark are pushing back against the toxin and the cancer of progressivism.

00:17:22.000 It's beautiful to see.

00:17:23.000 Joe Rogan, Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson.

00:17:25.000 You see them increasing, and young boys are coming our way.

00:17:30.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:18:34.000 Joining us now is Professor Alan Dershowitz.

00:18:36.000 Everyone should check out their book, Get Trump.

00:18:39.000 And boy, Professor, I joke around about it every time you come on the show.

00:18:42.000 What a timely book.

00:18:43.000 You couldn't have timed it better with all these indictments and the entire legal apparatus being thrown at him.

00:18:48.000 Professor, I want to ask you about your reaction to the indictment that came down last week, this superseding indictment.

00:18:55.000 Well, on its face, it raises some serious issues.

00:18:59.000 It looks like perhaps one of President Trump's employees may have flipped and become a government witness.

00:19:06.000 But when you look closely at the superseding indictment itself, the most troubling aspects of it seem like they're double or triple hearsay.

00:19:15.000 That this employee heard that that employee was told that the president may have said that he wanted the videos erased.

00:19:25.000 That would be inadmissible in a trial unless the government claimed there was a broad conspiracy and it would come in under the conspiracy exception.

00:19:36.000 But it's not obvious that the jury will ever hear that kind of hearsay statement or if they heard it, that they would believe it.

00:19:45.000 I didn't see anything in the indictment that has an eye or ear witness who says, I heard the president say that the tape should be erased.

00:19:57.000 If there were such a witness and if the witness were believed, that does constitute an obstruction of justice.

00:20:03.000 But there's a long way between an indictment.

00:20:06.000 As you know, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich.

00:20:10.000 They only hear one side of the story.

00:20:12.000 So we have to keep an open mind and see what the evidence actually is and whether it's credible and believable.

00:20:19.000 And so in your experience in dealing with the government, is it common that they'll throw these superseding indictments as more evidence is arising?

00:20:27.000 What is usually, walk us through a superseding indictment.

00:20:30.000 I'm a layman with this stuff.

00:20:32.000 Why do they usually are presented the way they are?

00:20:35.000 Well, there are a lot of reasons for presenting it.

00:20:37.000 If they get new witnesses, they will supersede.

00:20:39.000 If they get new evidence, they will supersede.

00:20:41.000 Sometimes they will supersede to change the venue, the place where the trial is going to be.

00:20:46.000 That didn't seem to have been the case here.

00:20:48.000 It's still going to be in Palm Beach, Florida County.

00:20:53.000 It also can sometimes serve to threaten other defendants.

00:20:58.000 After all, they did indict some new person and they may want to flip him and turn him into a witness.

00:21:04.000 You know, the government can not only make witnesses sing, they can often make them compose, and that is make up stories or change stories or make the stories even better.

00:21:15.000 So there's a long, long way between saying something in an indictment and proving it up beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

00:21:23.000 Professor Dershowitz's book is Get Trump.

00:21:26.000 Everyone should check it out.

00:21:27.000 It is incredibly timely right now.

00:21:29.000 So it seems, Professor, that either let's just take Georgia first.

00:21:33.000 Georgia is imminent as if Fannie Willis is going to indict Donald Trump.

00:21:38.000 You said something on this program that I thought was brilliant, and I've not heard a single person repeat it, where you make the distinction about Trump saying get votes.

00:21:46.000 Can you walk our audience through it?

00:21:48.000 So I think this is the best defense for Donald Trump here.

00:21:51.000 Sure.

00:21:52.000 I think his best defense is the actual recording of the conversation itself.

00:21:56.000 He could have easily said if you were guilty of something, make up votes, concoct them.

00:22:03.000 But he didn't say that.

00:22:04.000 He said, find them.

00:22:06.000 Fine them means they're lost.

00:22:08.000 They're there.

00:22:09.000 Find them has a literal meaning.

00:22:12.000 And it is not in any way a crime to tell vote counters to look hard and see if you've lost some votes.

00:22:18.000 We know that in many parts of the country, votes were lost temporarily and then they were found.

00:22:24.000 And so I think that call is actually his best defense.

00:22:28.000 I think the other best defense, both to that charge and the January 6th charge, will be the fact that the traditional way since the Tilden Hayes election and Thomas even Thomas Jefferson's election and other elections back in our history and certainly in 1960 was if you want to challenge an election, you put up a slate of alternate electors.

00:22:51.000 A court in Hawaii said that was the appropriate thing to do.

00:22:55.000 So I think they're going to have trouble as a matter of law indicting him on this fake electors scheme because it's the way to challenge.

00:23:06.000 It's certainly a far better way of challenging an election than having a riot or a demonstration or entering into the Capitol.

00:23:13.000 I think we want to encourage lawyers to bring challenges.

00:23:17.000 I was part of the challenge that was brought in Bush versus Gore.

00:23:22.000 I was the lawyer for the voters in Palm Beach County who were fooled and tricked, we believed, into voting for Bush based on what was called the butterfly ballot.

00:23:33.000 You remember that.

00:23:34.000 And I wrote a whole book about it.

00:23:36.000 And so I challenged an election.

00:23:38.000 That's the only election I've ever challenged.

00:23:40.000 I didn't challenge the 2020 or the 2022 elections, but I did challenge the 2000 election, and we did it lawfully and legally, and that should be encouraged more than street demonstrations.

00:23:54.000 Yeah, so let's focus on that.

00:23:56.000 The Michigan electors were indicted, I believe, to try and build the case against a looming DOJ indictment.

00:24:04.000 Do you think those are connected?

00:24:05.000 And what exact, how would you defend against Donald Trump's pending seditious conspiracy?

00:24:11.000 Because they're going to make the argument, I think, that he had these electors.

00:24:14.000 He was trying to overthrow the government through false certification of electors.

00:24:19.000 But what you're saying is it's perfectly constitutional.

00:24:22.000 It's within your free speech rights as a candidate to contest election results.

00:24:27.000 Not only that, it should be encouraged.

00:24:29.000 We want to encourage contesting votes and let the courts decide it because, you know, many, many millions of Americans, not me, I was not included among them, but many millions of Americans doubted the validity of the 2020 and in Arizona, the 2022 elections.

00:24:47.000 And the best way of resolving that is taking it to the courts, taking it to Congress, using the constitutional means to challenge.

00:24:55.000 That shouldn't be criminalized.

00:24:57.000 And it was never before criminalized.

00:24:59.000 But, you know, it's all part of the get Trump.

00:25:02.000 What's happened is, you know, my one criticism of what you said before I got on the air was you equated liberals with woke and progressives.

00:25:12.000 I'm a liberal.

00:25:13.000 And as a liberal, I'm tolerant, open-minded, support free speech, don't support surgery for minors.

00:25:20.000 I'm not part.

00:25:21.000 I hate the progressives. 1.00

00:25:22.000 I hate the wokes. 0.92

00:25:24.000 I'm a liberal who has a lot in common with traditional classic conservatives. 0.99

00:25:29.000 And liberals are in favor of challenging elections.

00:25:34.000 You can be a liberal without being particularly on the left.

00:25:37.000 I'm not particularly a left-winger.

00:25:39.000 I'm a libertarian, civil libertarian, liberal. 0.62

00:25:44.000 And progressives and wokes are very, very, very different.

00:25:48.000 And it's the progressives and wokes that are trying now to criminalize what are legitimate constitutional means of challenging elections.

00:25:56.000 Oh, I think that, and I think that's a great point you made.

00:26:00.000 And you're an increasingly endangered species in American politics, especially someone who is willing to speak and have dialogue and you believe in the Constitution.

00:26:10.000 So I want to ask about this particular element as well, which, again, you talk about in your book, Get Trump, The Threat to Civil Liberties, Due Process, and Our Constitutional Rule of Law.

00:26:20.000 Do you think the Department of Justice using the Proud Boys' convictions as the model to indict Trump could potentially disqualify him from running in 2024 using the 14th Amendment where it says insurrection or rebellion?

00:26:35.000 Well, insurrection or rebellion had a very precise meaning back in the 1860s.

00:26:40.000 It meant joining the Confederacy.

00:26:43.000 I've just been reading a history book written by Lincoln's private secretary about the beginnings of the Civil War and the Civil War in general.

00:26:52.000 There's no doubt 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were the peace treaty ending the Civil War.

00:26:59.000 And what the 14th Amendment meant is that if you were Jefferson Davis or Judah Benjamin, you could not run for office unless the House and the Senate allowed you to by a two-thirds vote or whatever it was in the Constitution.

00:27:15.000 It has nothing to do with what happened on January 6th.

00:27:19.000 And anybody who tries to interpret the words of that constitutional amendment to prohibit Trump from running, even if he were to be convicted, would be stretching the Constitution beyond its intended meaning.

00:27:31.000 Well, I'm afraid that's potentially what they are going to do.

00:27:36.000 So, and then finally, there is some speculation, Professor.

00:27:39.000 Now, this might be very radical, but I don't put anything past them with the entire idea of getting Trump, that they might have, at the very most extreme, pretrial detention and deny Donald Trump bail and or with certain, let's just say, stipulations, conditions.

00:27:57.000 You can't travel outside of a certain proximity.

00:28:00.000 What are your thoughts on this with a DOJ microphone?

00:28:05.000 The Eighth Amendment prohibits success of bail, and bail can only be denied if a person is likely to flee the country.

00:28:12.000 And it's hard to imagine Donald Trump getting on his private plane and heading off to where?

00:28:17.000 Russia, China.

00:28:18.000 You listen to some of those people.

00:28:19.000 You would think that Putin would welcome with open arms.

00:28:23.000 That's not going to happen.

00:28:24.000 And everybody knows that's not going to happen.

00:28:26.000 He wants to stay in the United States and run.

00:28:28.000 And he wants to campaign.

00:28:30.000 And I think it would be unconstitutional to limit his campaign, to limit his use of cell phones, to limit.

00:28:36.000 Remember, he's presumed innocent.

00:28:38.000 Under the law, he's just like you and me.

00:28:40.000 And they can't stop us from talking.

00:28:42.000 And they shouldn't be able to stop him from talking.

00:28:45.000 There'll be a trial.

00:28:46.000 The trial, at least according to current schedules, will occur before the conventions.

00:28:54.000 I think it's terrible.

00:28:55.000 I don't think that a man running for president should be indicted by his opponent's administration in the United States unless the evidence meets what I call the Nixon-Clinton standards.

00:29:06.000 The Nixon standard is bipartisan support for his impeachment, which is what occurred.

00:29:12.000 Or the Clinton standard.

00:29:13.000 Clinton was not prosecuted for what she did with respect to possibly classified material.

00:29:20.000 And you can't have a double standard for a candidate on the Democratic side and a candidate on the Republican side.

00:29:26.000 So I don't think it is proper to ever prosecute a man running for president or a woman running for president against the incumbent unless the evidence is so clear and overwhelming that both parties would support it.

00:29:42.000 And that test has not been met.

00:29:44.000 Well, I mean, this whole thing is unprecedented.

00:29:46.000 He's most likely going to be the nominee.

00:29:48.000 I mean, is it out of the realm of reality that a judge might say, I'm going to push this trial until after the presidential election?

00:29:57.000 I mean, is that a possibility, Professor?

00:30:01.000 That should be done, without a doubt.

00:30:03.000 It should be done.

00:30:06.000 And I suspect the trial will not take place before the election.

00:30:09.000 You know, they say it's going to happen in May, but there are all kinds of pretrial motions.

00:30:14.000 There might be motions that are appealable to the Circuit Court of Appeals.

00:30:19.000 So I wouldn't count on the trial actually taking place in May.

00:30:23.000 And we know now that the New York trial, which is a farce, the New York indictment is the worst indictment I've seen in 60 years of practicing law.

00:30:31.000 The New York trial has now been postponed until after the Florida trial.

00:30:34.000 So we just don't know.

00:30:36.000 But there ought not to be a trial that takes place during the election.

00:30:40.000 That really does constitute, whether it's a liberty or not, election interference.

00:30:44.000 Look, I have a constitutional right to vote against Donald Trump for the third time.

00:30:49.000 I voted against him twice.

00:30:50.000 I want to vote against him again.

00:30:52.000 And I don't want my constitutional right to vote against him or your constitutional right to vote for him to be in any way interfered with by bureaucrats.

00:30:59.000 And it ruins trust in our system.

00:31:01.000 We have different political choices most likely in the 2024 election, but we need to have trust that our systems are not going to be interfered with by our government.

00:31:09.000 Look, the ultimate check and balance in any system is elections.

00:31:12.000 And elections should be free and open. 0.92

00:31:14.000 And it's in banana republics that one administration will go after their opponents and not really let them run a full and complete campaign.

00:31:23.000 The American public will only trust the election system if both parties are allowed to run on equal strength and on the merits of their positions.

00:31:34.000 You know, I'd love the 2024 election to turn on the economy and on foreign relations rather than on who's the worst criminal, the, you know, the Trump family or the Biden family.

00:31:44.000 That's a terrible thing to have the American people have to choose between them.

00:31:47.000 So damaging.

00:31:48.000 It's so damaging.

00:31:49.000 The book is Get Trump.

00:31:50.000 Everyone, buy the book, Get Trump.

00:31:52.000 It's excellent and incredibly timely.

00:31:56.000 Hey, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:33:09.000 So, Professor, this is, I'm sure you have some strong opinions about this, the damage this does to our systems, and almost, I don't know, how we heal it or how we remedy it.

00:33:19.000 It just, what bothers me is that the people on the progressive woke left, I will take that distinction.

00:33:24.000 I think you're exactly right.

00:33:26.000 They seem not to care that they're damaging the institutions, that this is now going to be basically an era where you just indict your political opponent just to hold on to political power.

00:33:37.000 Do you think your former friends and colleagues, Harvard Law and all the top law firms, do you think they care about the damage they're doing?

00:33:44.000 Too many of them don't.

00:33:45.000 I mean, Professor Lawrence Tribe, who teaches constitutional law in Harvard and two other professors recently basically have said to their students, don't listen to the Supreme Court, ignore the Supreme Court, circumvent the Supreme Court's ruling on race-based affirmative action.

00:34:03.000 You know better than the justices.

00:34:06.000 We're seeing the rule of law really in so many ways destroyed.

00:34:12.000 And, you know, when Larry David came up to me in the Chillmark store and screamed at me and yelled at me and said I was disgusting with the veins bursting on his forehead, it was as if he was talking to Heinrich Himmler and that I had just defended Adolf Hitler.

00:34:27.000 I mean, that's the way some of these people on the extreme woke radical left think of Donald Trump.

00:34:34.000 And they don't care.

00:34:36.000 They don't care what means they use.

00:34:38.000 They don't care how much they destroy the Constitution as long as they get Trump.

00:34:43.000 And that's why I wrote this book.

00:34:44.000 It was very controversial.

00:34:45.000 It has cost me, as defending Donald Trump cost me a great deal in terms of friendships, the way my wife has been treated, the way my children, my grandchildren have been treated.

00:34:56.000 People just have lost all sense of decency when it comes to having different points of view.

00:35:04.000 And the irony is I share many of their points of view on the merits, not the extreme progressive woke points of view, but generally points of view.

00:35:13.000 I'm in favor of gay rights.

00:35:14.000 I'm in favor of reasonable abortion choice, reasonable climate control, reasonable gun control.

00:35:20.000 I am a traditional liberal, but my former friends on the radical left, one of them was walking yesterday on the beach and he saw me coming and he took a sharp right turn, went up to the top of the dunes.

00:35:33.000 I thought he'd fall off to avoid even seeing me.

00:35:37.000 And that's the way it is today.

00:35:39.000 And the library has canceled me.

00:35:41.000 My synagogue has canceled me.

00:35:44.000 The community center has canceled me.

00:35:47.000 The book show on Martha's Vineyard, I'm probably the best-selling author on Martha's Vineyard.

00:35:52.000 And they canceled me.

00:35:54.000 It's just they don't want to hear opposing points of view.

00:35:58.000 That's not liberal.

00:35:59.000 That's it's called progressive, but it's repressive.

00:36:04.000 Professor, then I have to ask you personally in the last minute and a half we have remaining, why do you keep on talking and fighting?

00:36:10.000 You don't share the politics of Trump.

00:36:12.000 You've lost a lot.

00:36:14.000 Your friends act as if you have some sort of like COVID infection when they see you on the beach, as you just described.

00:36:20.000 What motivates you then?

00:36:22.000 My love of the Constitution, my love of America, my demand that we have complete free speech and opportunity to express our views and that we comply with the Constitution.

00:36:33.000 I'm too old to change my stripes.

00:36:35.000 You know, I'll be 85 in a month.

00:36:37.000 For my 75th birthday, I had like 200 people coming.

00:36:41.000 Oh, interesting.

00:36:42.000 President Obama was invited and he said he would come.

00:36:45.000 But then when he heard that Geraldo Rivera was invited too, basically his office said, unless you disinvite Geraldo Rivera, I'm not coming.

00:36:55.000 And I'm a loyal guy.

00:36:56.000 And I said to the President of the United States, no, Geraldo Rivera is coming.

00:37:00.000 You can stay away.

00:37:02.000 And the President of the United States stayed away from my 75th birthday because I invited Geraldo Rivera.

00:37:07.000 I would do that any day of the week.

00:37:08.000 I believe in loyalty.

00:37:09.000 I believe in friendships.

00:37:11.000 I don't agree with Geraldo and everything.

00:37:13.000 And but he's my friend.

00:37:15.000 So of course I invited him to my 75th birthday and I'm inviting him to my 85th birthday.

00:37:20.000 Professor, I wish that there were more liberals in public life that were willing to put an ideal of due process, independent judiciary above politics because we're heading in a very, very troubling direction.

00:37:34.000 I want to thank you for your courage there and check out the book, Get Trump.

00:37:37.000 I believe we are going to heal our land when we can put our ideals above our politics.

00:37:42.000 Thank you so much, Professor.

00:37:43.000 I deeply appreciate it.

00:37:45.000 Thank you.

00:37:45.000 I appreciate your asking me on.

00:37:47.000 Thank you.

00:37:48.000 If you've listened to the end of the episode here, email me, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:37:52.000 And whether you think the Republican primary should be ended or not, I'd love your thoughts.

00:37:57.000 And you might win a signed copy of the college scam.

00:38:01.000 Thanks so much for listening.

00:38:02.000 God bless.

00:38:06.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 31, 2023

Why Young Men are Going Right with Sen. Eric Schmitt and Alan Dershowitz

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