The Charlie Kirk Show - Will Minnesota’s Turning Point Ever Come?

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

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00:01:09.000 All right, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:11.000 Hour two is underway.

00:01:14.000 We are actually going to be joined now by Scott Johnson from the Powerline blog, one of the groups that has been investigating the Minnesota fraud within the Somali community specifically for a lot longer than the public is now aware of, at least the vast majority of them.

00:01:30.000 So, Scott, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:33.000 Thanks for making the time.

00:01:35.000 Blake is the one who turned me on to your reporting and your investigative work.

00:01:40.000 So, I'm going to let him take the lead here because what you've been doing needs to, more people need to know about it, Scott.

00:01:47.000 Hey, Scott, yeah, welcome to the show.

00:01:50.000 I'm a big fan of Powerline.

00:01:52.000 You guys are, I think you guys have literally been blogging before they actually came up with the word blog, which is quite, I think you were in like the original Time magazine article about it and all that.

00:02:02.000 Big fan of you guys.

00:02:04.000 And what I like about what you guys have really pointed out, you've had a lot of posts on this explosion of interest in the Somali story.

00:02:12.000 And what you've pointed out is this is not, it's not truly a new story.

00:02:19.000 Even Nick Shirley, he's not even the first person to go around knocking on the doors of daycares.

00:02:25.000 And so I thought we could set this up by you could just explain a little bit about what you know as a conservative on the ground in Minnesota, what the real state of affairs is, and what is the best thing that could happen if we want to see accountability for this.

00:02:42.000 And I guess I suppose to be obvious, like useful policy developments at the national level as a result of this scandal.

00:02:49.000 Well, that's a big question.

00:02:52.000 The last time you had me on, Blake, it was to talk in the aftermath of the controversy that Chris Rufo had raised with a city journal column this past November.

00:03:05.000 And it created a huge impact all around the country because President Trump attended to that matter.

00:03:12.000 And all of a sudden, there were calls for investigation coming from all over the country, directed at the United States Attorney for Minnesota and the local FBI office here.

00:03:24.000 But in fact, the case that Rufo wrote about, the fraud cases that have been drawn to his attention are four years old.

00:03:36.000 They're going to be, let's see, since 2021, they've been under investigation by the FBI.

00:03:42.000 There have been at least 50 convictions in those cases.

00:03:46.000 There are about 28 more maybe to go.

00:03:49.000 And This round of controversy is created by this incredible video that Nick Shirley created knocking on doors around the Twin Cities to demonstrate the level of fraud in one aspect of these cases that is also under investigation and also being charged.

00:04:11.000 And that's the thing I would like your audience to know more than anything else is that these matters are under investigation by the FBI and they are being prosecuted by the United States Attorney for the District of Minnesota.

00:04:25.000 And whatever credit you give to me for covering these cases comes from the fact that I have followed, I've attended the press conferences called by the U.S. Attorney here and I've attended the trials held in these cases here.

00:04:39.000 And this is all, from my perspective, old news.

00:04:43.000 Now, what's the name of the gentleman you were going to have on this afternoon?

00:04:48.000 Nick Shirley.

00:04:50.000 Nick Shirley.

00:04:51.000 You know, I'm still just inundated with questions about this, but Shirley's video focuses on one aspect of the frauds that are being investigated here, the daycare frauds.

00:05:03.000 And he highlights in the video an office in the city of St. Paul called the Griggs Midway Building that had 22 offices that were devoted to some aspect of these frauds.

00:05:17.000 And the funny thing is, that office building was raided in July.

00:05:23.000 And at the time, I posted one of the search warrants that was executed in July on Powerline.

00:05:31.000 And then in September, several of those cases out of the Griggs Midway building were charged.

00:05:37.000 Now, the first charge cases involve another Medicaid fraud.

00:05:43.000 Minnesota Medicaid has 14 waiver programs.

00:05:48.000 And daycare has been a long-standing problem.

00:05:52.000 But the first charge cases that have come out of the Griggs Midway building in St. Paul are in housing stabilization services, which seems to be a fraud of the kind that Nick Shirley is exposing in this video that has gone viral.

00:06:09.000 So the one thing I would like your audience to know is that this matter, to use President Trump's term, is being attended to.

00:06:16.000 The FBI is investigating it, and the cases are being charged.

00:06:21.000 There are more that will be charged this week.

00:06:25.000 If there's a problem, it's that the United States Attorney's Office for Minnesota is not huge.

00:06:31.000 There might be five or six prosecutors working on these cases and a team of FBI agents.

00:06:37.000 If anything, it's time to send in reinforcements.

00:06:40.000 But the matter, this is not news.

00:06:42.000 It does not need to be investigated in the sense that a case needs to be open.

00:06:46.000 It is under investigation and the cases are being charged.

00:06:50.000 Yeah, it's interesting.

00:06:51.000 I want to read a line from your post this morning.

00:06:54.000 It says, before Nick Shirley and after.

00:06:56.000 And you say, Joe Thompson, the U.S. Attorney for Minnesota, has all but shouted the point from the rooftop, Minnesota is drowning in fraud.

00:07:06.000 To put it another way, Thompson was shouting, wake up.

00:07:09.000 The volume of fraud is beyond the capacity of his office to remedy by prosecution alone.

00:07:16.000 And you asked him, okay, are there more people you could charge and do they match basically the appearance of the cases we've seen so far?

00:07:26.000 In other words, are there more Somali fraud cases that he's just been unable to get to?

00:07:31.000 And he told you, yes.

00:07:33.000 So we have the evidence.

00:07:35.000 We have the cases.

00:07:37.000 It seems that we literally just have a case where we need more prosecutors and more manpower to bring the paperwork charges.

00:07:44.000 Is that the situation?

00:07:46.000 Do I understand it correctly?

00:07:47.000 You know, to go back to the beginning, which is the Searches and indictments that were handed up in the year 2022 out of the investigation that began in 2021.

00:07:58.000 We're in this feeding our future fraud that involved $300 million.

00:08:03.000 The original indictments, there was a set of 47 indictments that were handed up by the grand jury in September 2022.

00:08:11.000 And those cases have multiplied.

00:08:14.000 They're up to 70 some now.

00:08:17.000 And that's how these subsequent frauds were discovered: is that Joe Thompson and the FBI, as they followed the money coming out of Medicaid to and this Feeding Our Future, as they followed the money, they found this some of the same cast of characters.

00:08:38.000 The defendants in the Feeding Our Future case are basically a white woman who set up this Feeding Our Future nonprofit and recruited Somali, a Somali cast of characters to run these fraudulent programs around the state. 1.00

00:08:54.000 So that's how it happened, is that this thing has been under investigation for four years.

00:09:00.000 I wanted to, you've watched Minnesota politics for a long time, and it's always struck me as a state.

00:09:05.000 It seems like it should be a purple or red state by now, like it should follow the arc of Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, move a bit to the right.

00:09:14.000 Yet it's always been this white whale.

00:09:16.000 It never seems to happen.

00:09:17.000 Even when it seems like this, a scandal like this should be a huge feeding frenzy for a state Republican.

00:09:23.000 And you guys have good local conservative-leaning investigators, Alpha News, you guys.

00:09:29.000 What's going on?

00:09:30.000 Why does Minnesota never seem to reach that turning point that it seems like it should?

00:09:35.000 Well, I hate to point the finger at the Somali community again, but the problem is Hennepin County, which is the county in which Minneapolis sits.

00:09:45.000 And the Democratic majority there is so huge, including a large component of Somali voters, that it makes up for the Democrats' weakness in rural Minnesota.

00:09:55.000 And they do lose outstate.

00:09:57.000 Minnesota has shifted.

00:09:59.000 It is a purple state in the sense that rural counties are basically Republican, and St. Paul and Minneapolis are Democrats.

00:10:05.000 So we need to do a little bit better in the cities.

00:10:08.000 It's been a long time since a Republican won a statewide election here.

00:10:12.000 If it doesn't happen in 2026, we've really got a problem.

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00:11:26.000 You know, it's interesting.

00:11:28.000 I'm not exactly sure what the precise number of Somali voters are now in Hennepin County, but it's massive.

00:11:35.000 We're talking at least over 100,000.

00:11:37.000 Some have said 200,000.

00:11:39.000 So that's a huge voting block.

00:11:40.000 I don't know what the margin of defeat for Trump was in Minnesota, Blake, if you've got that handy, but I'd be surprised if it was much higher than 200,000, but we'll check.

00:11:55.000 You mentioned this voting block and Nick Shirley, who we've been talking about, who's actually, he's had to reschedule with us.

00:12:00.000 He'll be on tomorrow, mentions this exact thing, 118.

00:12:04.000 Governor Tim Walz is saying that you and others that are out there trying to expose this, you know, you're doing it because you're white supremacists.

00:12:11.000 What is your response to him?

00:12:13.000 Yeah, Tim wants votes.

00:12:15.000 There are entire apartment complexes where white people have been pushed out of these apartment complexes because Somalians have taken over in their inside of these towns like Minneapolis, where they can go and go get votes from these people. 1.00

00:12:26.000 And if you have 100,000 people that will vote for you because you're going to enable and let this stuff happen and because you're going to call white person racist for calling out facts, this is what's going to happen to a state like Minnesota.

00:12:37.000 Minnesotans, they say Minnesota nice, but they are very upset.

00:12:41.000 And I totally understand why they're upset because they don't have a governor who's actually working for them.

00:12:45.000 He's actually working against them.

00:12:48.000 I guess what I'm wondering is I just checked and Trump lost, President Trump lost Minnesota by about one and a half points in 2016.

00:12:57.000 He lost by more in 2020.

00:12:59.000 And in 2024, he lost by four points.

00:13:02.000 So it actually has shifted a little bit bluer over the past eight years.

00:13:06.000 Is that just a demographic effect?

00:13:08.000 Or do you think, is there something, is there something to that you'll always hear from outside Minnesota, people will say it's that Scandinavian psychology.

00:13:18.000 So I guess I'd ask what you think of that.

00:13:20.000 And also, just in general, I know you say it's not a news story there, but it is getting a lot of attention.

00:13:26.000 Is this the sort of thing people are talking about all the time there?

00:13:29.000 Is it taking over discourse in the state in a way it didn't before?

00:13:33.000 I think the point that Nick Shirley made in the video that you played is absolutely right.

00:13:37.000 It's hard to convey the level of interest on the one hand and anger on the other that this story generates.

00:13:43.000 You know, people feel like they're being treated as chumps and they're really mad about it.

00:13:49.000 And I can't think of a comparable issue of public affairs in the past 10 years in Minnesota that has generated this level of interest.

00:14:00.000 It's had a huge impact.

00:14:03.000 President Trump had an impact in 2016.

00:14:08.000 I think one effect he had was turning suburbs around in Hennepa County around the Twin Cities bluer, you know, because the suburban voters don't like his style or whatever.

00:14:20.000 I really haven't thought about the question that you're raising right now and hesitate to say more about the political impact and so on.

00:14:29.000 But I do think that we need a serious Republican candidate at the top of the ticket in 2026.

00:14:39.000 We had a weak Republican gubernatorial candidate in 2022.

00:14:43.000 It brought down competitive candidates under him.

00:14:46.000 If we have several good candidates running for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in 2026, and if one of them gets the nomination and is endorsed, I think we'll win.

00:14:58.000 Yes, we can hope, man.

00:14:59.000 We can hope.

00:15:01.000 Just so we're clear, the raw vote difference in 2024 in Minnesota was 138,100 votes.

00:15:11.000 So Donald Trump received 1.5.

00:15:14.000 Essentially, Harris received 1.65.

00:15:17.000 So it was 138,000 raw votes that Minnesota was won by.

00:15:22.000 And if you think the Somali community, which has been largely imported since the late 90s, I mean, that's let's say it's over 200,000.

00:15:30.000 I mean, it's about 80,000.

00:15:32.000 So it's not quite the difference.

00:15:34.000 I've heard larger numbers.

00:15:35.000 Do we know the actual numbers here?

00:15:38.000 How many Somalis are in Minnesota?

00:15:39.000 I would say no.

00:15:40.000 You can get official numbers would be something like the 80,000 that you're using, but I think it's well over 100,000.

00:15:48.000 It is a fair number.

00:15:52.000 And they're not entirely in Minneapolis, but they're concentrated in, you know, it used to be called Little Mogadishu.

00:15:59.000 That's the fifth district, Hannepin County, and Minneapolis and Inner Ring suburb.

00:16:05.000 It's Ilhan Omar's district.

00:16:08.000 So it's not so little anymore.

00:16:12.000 Little Mogadishu has gotten bigger.

00:16:15.000 Well, it's not just, but it's not just, it's not just Minnesota, by the way.

00:16:20.000 This is in Ohio.

00:16:21.000 There's now reports of over 500 child care facilities in the state of Washington run by Somalis.

00:16:28.000 So we'll see how far the rabbit hole goes down.

00:16:31.000 This is a very interesting conversation.

00:16:34.000 Scott Johnson has been with his Powerline blog, has been investigating the, I guess, fraud situation, different aspects of it in Minneapolis, or Minnesota.

00:16:44.000 Scott, does this go back 20 years, 25 years for you?

00:16:47.000 How long have you been doing your research and investigations?

00:16:51.000 Well, we started Powerline over Memorial Day weekend, 2002.

00:16:58.000 I'm trying to think the first, I really got seriously interested in this subject.

00:17:04.000 I covered that Minnesota was a font of folks supporting al-Shabaab.

00:17:13.000 And in 2016, there was a terrorism trial here.

00:17:19.000 There were nine charged Somali Minnesotans who were seeking to join ISIS.

00:17:25.000 Six of them pleaded guilty.

00:17:26.000 Three of them went to trial in 2016.

00:17:29.000 I covered that trial.

00:17:31.000 And these were young, charismatic men who on the surface were apparently assimilated.

00:17:37.000 They were well-spoken.

00:17:39.000 They were taking advantage of opportunities.

00:17:41.000 They were educated.

00:17:43.000 They were taking advantage of every employment and educational opportunity I could think of.

00:17:49.000 So, you know, I was exposed to some of them as they came through the courtroom, but the three defendants I saw, one of them testified, and one of the nine turned in former and wore a wire.

00:18:01.000 So you got to hear what these guys really thought of us.

00:18:04.000 And it was really, it was shocking how much hatred they had for the United States.

00:18:11.000 Wow.

00:18:11.000 And in the course of that trial, I saw, you know, one of the programs they were taking advantage of was student loans.

00:18:18.000 And one of the defendants pulled out $500 on a debit card from his student loan to finance his trip to Turkey to try to get to ISIS.

00:18:29.000 And these folks were apprehended before they left the United States.

00:18:35.000 But it was shocking to me how cognizant they were of the seams in the system that they could take advantage of and so on.

00:18:44.000 Yeah, it's really revealing.

00:18:46.000 One of the places they investigated, the way it had all three, it was like it had a transportation company and it had like a home, a Medicaid company and a daycare.

00:18:56.000 They're aware of where you can go to get the money.

00:18:59.000 And as you said, it's nice that you brought up the terrorism nexus of this.

00:19:03.000 In 2019, I've got it right in front of me.

00:19:06.000 Fox 9 out of Minneapolis, St. Paul, they investigated this story.

00:19:13.000 And there was literally reports.

00:19:15.000 This was noted that millions of dollars was being flown out of the Minneapolis airport in suitcases in cash.

00:19:22.000 They just had cash stuff in suitcases and they're flying it to Somalia.

00:19:27.000 It's beyond a doubt.

00:19:29.000 A lot of that probably ended up with extremists, al-Shabaab terrorists.

00:19:33.000 And it says in that article that it's well known that starting a daycare is a way to print money in this community.

00:19:41.000 2019.

00:19:42.000 It's just feeding frenzy.

00:19:45.000 Yeah, I think the cash being flown out has never been substantiated, but that's where we came in was with daycare fraud.

00:19:53.000 I wrote a column for City Journal called Mobedisho Minnesota, I think, in 2018, that referred to the issue of daycare fraud.

00:20:01.000 and the story about cash being flown to Somalia.

00:20:05.000 I'm not so sure that that part of it is true, but it certainly has been a concern for a substantial period of time.

00:20:11.000 Well, so my question then, Scott, goes to the politicians that have been complicit in this, right?

00:20:16.000 In 2023, Governor Waltz said that, you know, child care providers need a raise, which basically, you know, was a tip of the cap to his constituents in the Somali community, I got to believe.

00:20:31.000 Are we looking at complicity within the elected class in Minnesota?

00:20:37.000 Are you going to be pursuing that investigation?

00:20:39.000 What can we expect in terms of Tim Waltz and other officials in the state?

00:20:44.000 I don't think Tim Walz and I don't think Attorney General Keith Ellison, I don't think either one of them has either sat for an interview regarding what they knew and when on this massive public programs fraud.

00:20:57.000 And it would be nice if the big media outlets here like the Minneapolis Star Tribune, now known as the Minnesota Star Tribune, would ask for interviews and tell us what the response is that they get.

00:21:10.000 Will either of these guys sit for an interview?

00:21:12.000 During the second of these Feeding Our Future trials earlier this year, I sent sets of questions.

00:21:18.000 I asked for interviews of both Walls and Ellison to ask those questions.

00:21:24.000 And I sent them written questions on the subject of what they knew and when.

00:21:28.000 Keith Ellison, the Attorney General of the state, is a guy who brags about how he can spot a fraud when he's talking about President Trump.

00:21:37.000 So I was curious about when he spotted the fraud that took place under his auspices here over the last six years.

00:21:44.000 It's unbelievable.

00:21:46.000 You know, these guys have specialized in either looking the other way or facilitating what we've seen over the past several days, all these cases.

00:21:59.000 We're out of time here, Scott, but thank you so much.

00:22:01.000 Thank you so much for your work.

00:22:02.000 Everyone, check out Powerline Blog if you want unlimited Minnesota content.

00:22:06.000 It's a great content producing state for our movement.

00:22:09.000 Thank you again, Scott.

00:22:10.000 Thanks for having me, Scott.

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00:23:15.000 Very excited about our next guest.

00:23:17.000 That is Harmeet Dylan, the great Harmeet Dylan, who is the Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Rights Division at the Department of Justice.

00:23:26.000 Harmee, welcome back to the show.

00:23:28.000 I am very excited to speak with you.

00:23:31.000 had a very lively weekend, a holiday break, and you're trying to explain things.

00:23:39.000 I found I was very sympathetic to where you're at because I have, you know, in the last couple of months, received my own fair amount of attention from conservative influencers that don't seem to understand that we have a legal system that has rules, it has timelines.

00:23:59.000 And you are being, or perhaps you just observed some of the questions that were circulating about this post-January 6th prosecution.

00:24:08.000 People want accountability for some of the stuff that happened.

00:24:10.000 Obviously, we share those desires.

00:24:14.000 And you just basically said, am I going to have to put down my knitting and explain the statute of limitations to you people?

00:24:19.000 So the floor is yours.

00:24:20.000 What sparked this?

00:24:21.000 And what do you want the country, the conservative movement to know?

00:24:25.000 Well, thank you for having me.

00:24:27.000 And thank you for asking.

00:24:28.000 It is certainly very frustrating to those of the Department of Justice where we are doing so much.

00:24:34.000 We are winning so many cases at the Supreme Court.

00:24:37.000 We are putting wins on the board.

00:24:38.000 And Attorney General Pambondi and the rest of us keep getting criticized for not having arrests.

00:24:44.000 Like arrests are entertainment or bread and circuses.

00:24:47.000 When in fact, there are arrests and there is a very lively activity from a very committed and I think the most conservative Department of Justice that we've ever had.

00:24:55.000 So, and I don't think it's just people asking questions.

00:24:58.000 What I was responding to was what looked to me like an organized campaign of stupid commentary that falsely claim that because January 6th is coming up, there's a five-year statute of limitation that expires on January 6th, 2025. 0.51

00:25:14.000 And if the Attorney General and the DSJ haven't indicted people by that time, then that statute of limitation has run. 0.91

00:25:22.000 And I think it is paid.

00:25:24.000 I think I see certainly those types of influencers on X who are monetized repeating this propaganda almost word for word.

00:25:32.000 And I was frustrated by it.

00:25:34.000 I saw some pushback.

00:25:35.000 It wasn't enough pushback.

00:25:37.000 And so I decided to get out there and, you know, spew some facts.

00:25:41.000 Namely, there is no statute of limitations that runs on that day.

00:25:45.000 There are various statutes that are going to run on a rolling basis.

00:25:48.000 And some have even expired because there's a continuing conspiracy, which I think you could make the case for in some circumstances.

00:25:56.000 The statute of limitations doesn't begin to run, i.e. start, until that conspiracy and those overacts and furtherance of the conspiracy end.

00:26:05.000 And so I put some facts out there.

00:26:07.000 And I also express my frustration that so-called conservative influencers are clearly getting paid to spread clickbait disinformation.

00:26:15.000 And it's really annoying to me.

00:26:17.000 And I wish people would get a life where it needs to form themselves to try to be honest instead of just trying to make money off of the desperation of a less informed populace.

00:26:28.000 Well, and I think that's really important.

00:26:30.000 And we have your tweet here.

00:26:31.000 You said stuff happens January 6th.

00:26:33.000 That date is irrelevant.

00:26:35.000 January 6th committee and Congress forms in the summer.

00:26:37.000 This is a relevant date.

00:26:39.000 So statute of limitations, mid-2026, potentially.

00:26:41.000 Jack Smith appointed over a year later.

00:26:44.000 So there's another date.

00:26:45.000 Democrats in Congress and those in the states colluding with Biden White House hide their behavior, some of which still hasn't come to light.

00:26:52.000 Statute runs on this five years after their concealed behavior is known to the government.

00:26:57.000 This means the statute could run in the next administration.

00:27:02.000 And then you have a note of encouragement to stop posting clickbait.

00:27:06.000 I think that's all fair.

00:27:08.000 I actually was not booking you on this topic, Harmeet.

00:27:13.000 We wanted to have you on because the Minnesota topic, and we've been covering that throughout the show today.

00:27:21.000 I mean, it was the number one topic.

00:27:23.000 Elon's posting about it.

00:27:25.000 So I appreciate the statute of limitations.

00:27:28.000 Think you're.

00:27:28.000 You're getting to a point that the base wants accountability, they want results, and it's not just about the DOJ, it's not just about Pam Bondi.

00:27:37.000 You guys are doing great work at the Department OF Justice in a lot of different ways and I know because I've spoken with people.

00:27:42.000 There's a lot coming down the pike so we can put a pin in that if you'd like, but there's a lot coming down the pike.

00:27:47.000 Could you, could you at least assure our audience that you guys are working on stuff that they're gonna like absolutely?

00:27:53.000 But let me continue the theme here of the false narrative, which is that no one's gonna go to jail.

00:27:58.000 We aren't doing anything.

00:27:59.000 We haven't done anything where the Irrep. 0.73

00:28:01.000 This is nonsense, because the attorney general and under the DOJ we have actually uh indicted 99 people so far, and we're just getting started.

00:28:11.000 In the Minnesota Somali fraud rings so far there are over 60 uh convictions and please, hundreds of millions of dollars involved in restitution and, um you know, additional collateral crimes, including attempted bribery by one of these fraudsters trying to deliver 120 000 stats toward your home and things like that, and so you know.

00:28:35.000 We're also uncovering the news of similar types of fraud happening in Ohio and other places where the Somali community uh is, because apparently this is a type of fraud that they're they're talking amongst themselves. 1.00

00:28:49.000 And it isn't just Somali fraud. 0.95

00:28:50.000 There's other fraud.

00:28:51.000 I I, I firmly believe that there's been state organized fraud frankly, in a way in California, where um Victor Davis has been talking about this recently on his podcast, where he's talking about um, you know, sort of inflated uh reimbursement requests for um ambulances from the state and then the states pockets the difference and you know all kinds of crazy stuff like this, medicaid fraud.

00:29:15.000 There's autism fraud um, and on and on and on, and so we are so dedicated to this. 1.00

00:29:22.000 There are career prosecutors.

00:29:23.000 It's not a political thing, this is the type of thing that they do day in and day out, and the attorney general is so dedicated to it I spoke to her about it yesterday to not getting enough credit and it's not reasonable.

00:29:34.000 And so um, I just want people to understand that when they say uh, where are the arrests?

00:29:39.000 There's no arrests, you're just you're just sounding dumb, because if you cracked open a browser and did a little bit of research, you would find that there have been many arrests, many conviction convictions, many indictments and ongoing investigations here, and so i'm proud of this DOJ and the work that we're doing and uh, it would really make it easier for us to do our job and we didn't have to spend time combating this information from the public uh online, someone which is frankly malicious and soft.

00:30:08.000 Yeah, and I want to take a minute, just a moment, here to pause.

00:30:12.000 Uh, you mentioned Victor Davis Hansen.

00:30:14.000 He uh announced on his show, so we just want everybody to pray for Vdh.

00:30:18.000 Great American, been on this show many times.

00:30:20.000 He says i'm having a major operation and i've been presented with a serious problem, but i'm going to do all I can to solve it and that's all I can do and trust in the power of prayer and faith and in a wonderful surgeon.

00:30:32.000 So uh, it sounds like he's going into surgery with a serious uh issue.

00:30:36.000 I saw you uh tweeting about that and retweeting, so I wanted to pause, Pause right there.

00:30:41.000 We love VDH.

00:30:42.000 He's a good, good American, great American.

00:30:44.000 And so we wish him all the best.

00:30:47.000 Please do pray for him.

00:30:49.000 We need guys like VDH out there, a voice of stability and of just wisdom, history, his context for just about every problem we face is incredible.

00:31:00.000 So just wanted to pause and say that.

00:31:03.000 So one of the issues that you see if you go online, and again, this is sort of the theme of our conversation here, Harmie, is people want to see Tim Waltz, Keith Ellison, they want to see these guys indicted, arrested for their complicity or look turning the other way when they knew the fraud was happening.

00:31:22.000 There's a in the previous segment, Blake mentioned a Fox 9 article from 2019 where this sort of daycare fraud was publicized first, and they were even alleging that some of the money was getting to back to al-Shabaab even in 2019.

00:31:39.000 Then we had the City Journal reporting from Christopher Ruffo that basically alleged the same.

00:31:45.000 What would it take to indict a sitting governor?

00:31:49.000 I mean, I know that you have an official role and there's only so much you can say.

00:31:52.000 So please, by all means, be careful.

00:31:54.000 But just legally speaking, I mean, we haven't really seen anything like that, at least in living memory.

00:32:00.000 Well, well, we have.

00:32:01.000 I mean, Rod Blagojevich was, of course, indicted.

00:32:04.000 He's now a matter of fact, many Illinois governors have been indicted and convicted of crimes.

00:32:10.000 And senators have as well.

00:32:12.000 Sitting?

00:32:13.000 It does happen.

00:32:14.000 Yeah.

00:32:14.000 I mean, you know, I don't know if he was sitting at the time, but he was convicted for behavior that he allegedly engaged in while he was sitting governor.

00:32:25.000 And so, you know, it does take time to put convictions together.

00:32:28.000 So let me tell you how, and again, this is not my area of expertise.

00:32:32.000 I'm civil rights chief.

00:32:33.000 I do have some criminal, some jurisdiction involving hate crimes and stuff.

00:32:38.000 But there's a concept in the DOJ and also in state prosecutions called public corruption.

00:32:44.000 And the prosecutors who specialize in public corruption cases.

00:32:47.000 And they're difficult cases to bring.

00:32:49.000 And they typically involve informants or somebody who has been engaged in criminal behavior themselves, like paying bribes to a sitting official, and then perhaps agreeing to wear a wire or, you know, otherwise there's sufficient evidence because they plead guilty and there's a grand jury and then there's enough evidence to go in and get a wiretap and/or financial records and then go trace the money and build an ironclad case.

00:33:14.000 And I think that while I know there's a thirst, kind of a revenge-like thirst for convictions and prosecutions, what we don't want is to have a situation like where what happened to President Trump, you know, trucked up states and concocted cases, VS cases.

00:33:31.000 So you have to actually do the homework, put that ironclad case together, because you know what the other side is going to say.

00:33:37.000 They're going to say this is politicized, that's setting 100% of cases involving public figures.

00:33:43.000 This is political.

00:33:44.000 This is not a real case.

00:33:45.000 Where we're seeing that right now, that kind of commentary with Laticia Jennings and some others that are in the crosshairs of prosecution.

00:33:54.000 And so I think that's what is happening here.

00:33:56.000 And so it isn't enough that a public figure saw a news story five years ago that says that there's fraud in their state.

00:34:03.000 That's not a crime.

00:34:05.000 But tying them to it, tying them to either a financial motivation or a campaign finance motivation where they looked the other way or they accepted a gratuity or some benefit or an ongoing benefit, including to their family or so forth that they arranged.

00:34:23.000 Putting these cases together is important.

00:34:25.000 And I can guarantee you that every single person working and being leadership of this DOJ would like nothing more than to bring righteous cases against corrupt public officials.

00:34:35.000 But let me tell you a little Quite a complex complication here.

00:34:40.000 You know, the whole problem with the blue slip process that has been talked about, I'm sure you talked about it on your show.

00:34:46.000 Well, it's kind of weird when you're in a blue state like Illinois or Minnesota or California and the Democrat senators get a veto over who the prosecutor can be who might investigate them.

00:34:59.000 That's even here a conflict of interest.

00:35:01.000 And then I can tell you, I could tell you actual sort of complex needs of fraud that I believe have been committed by Democrat public figures in California.

00:35:15.000 And the blue slip process makes it such that nobody ever gets approved by those Democrat senators who isn't someone who they think is politically savvy enough to look the other way and not come after them.

00:35:27.000 So that's why you see less of this.

00:35:30.000 That's why sometimes these prosecutions have to occur from a different district or, you know, out of Maine justice.

00:35:36.000 And a lot of this stuff never comes to light because of that.

00:35:40.000 So we do rely on public figures coming forward and trying to help us with these issues.

00:35:47.000 This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and Founding Partner of WhyReFi.

00:35:51.000 It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us.

00:35:57.000 His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come.

00:36:03.000 Now, here Charlie, in his own words, tell you about WhyReFi.

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00:36:55.000 A little bit of breaking news.

00:36:57.000 The United States has just conducted its first land strike against Venezuela.

00:37:01.000 President Trump has confirmed the military took out a drug facility, resulting in a massive explosion.

00:37:06.000 So we're going to keep our eyes on that.

00:37:10.000 That's a little bit of breaking news.

00:37:11.000 So, Harmit, in the midst of this Venezuelan news and the BBNet and Yahoo news, you have news on voting integrity, voter integrity, as well as some gun cases that you're working.

00:37:24.000 Please tell us about them.

00:37:25.000 Well, sure, let's talk about the voting cases first.

00:37:28.000 So a few months ago, I started this process of requesting the voter rolls from all the states and territories in the United States and asking them to share them with us so that we could help these states compare their voter rolls against our government data and clean their voter role, which is a requirement of states under federal law, the Health America Vote Act, amongst others.

00:37:51.000 And so there's a lot of heving and on, including from red states, a lot of back and forth, and then some outright refusal to cooperate from many states.

00:37:59.000 And so I am proud to report that today I'm in litigation with 22 states in the United States.

00:38:05.000 That's actually 23 lawsuits with California two lawsuits.

00:38:09.000 I also have voluntary compliance from 13 states, including Texas and several others.

00:38:15.000 And even on Christmas Eve, Andrew, I had Secretaries of State uploading their data from the DOJ so that we could do our work on it and help them clean their voter rolls.

00:38:26.000 And so we're engaged in quartering settlements with almost every state.

00:38:30.000 I got North Carolina early on to actually a subtle one agreement with us to clean up over 100,000 voter records that had been improperly recorded and they didn't get the correct data about citizenship from those voters.

00:38:44.000 I'm suing Georgia, including for the Fulton County ballots that we requested several months ago and that they've refused to give us.

00:38:51.000 So we're in multiple lawsuits over there.

00:38:55.000 And of course, even after we filed that lawsuit in the same week, we filed a lawsuit last week, all that news came out about hundreds of thousands of improperly recorded votes with inappropriate chain of Petsoni and other indicia in Georgia.

00:39:13.000 So it is really important work.

00:39:15.000 We're excited about it.

00:39:16.000 I wish I had more hands and what people at the DSA do this work.

00:39:19.000 We are hiring very aggressively.

00:39:21.000 So if anybody watching this is a lawyer who wants to come help their country, it's her duty to help clean up our voter roles to ensure election integrity.

00:39:28.000 We're looking to hire people on that.

00:39:30.000 And so I'll just keep people posted.

00:39:32.000 As people at Safe are refusing to give me their data, we get to a point where we know it's going to be, they know, we sue them.

00:39:39.000 And so we put our money where our mouth is.

00:39:40.000 And, you know, I would have thought when I got in there, Andrew, that I would have some template to pull from because surely the DOJ did this before, right?

00:39:48.000 Right.

00:39:48.000 They never did it before.

00:39:50.000 No Republican administration or even Democrat administration did voter role litigation before.

00:39:56.000 And I want to cause you there.

00:39:59.000 This is something Blake brought up earlier that, you know, you look back at what Tom Emmer was saying about the Somali population in 2015.

00:40:06.000 We need them.

00:40:07.000 They're more American and they're going to assimilate.

00:40:09.000 He said they assimilated better than any other group.

00:40:13.000 And they were, you know, the Germans had done the exact same thing. 0.53

00:40:16.000 Yeah.

00:40:16.000 That's what he said.

00:40:17.000 So that's what he said.

00:40:18.000 But Blake made the astute point that now Tom Emmer is on Fox basically calling for prosecutions and accountability.

00:40:25.000 And listen, I'm not necessarily letting him off the hook for being a part of the problem in the first place.

00:40:30.000 What I am saying is the tone and tenor of the entire conservative movement.

00:40:34.000 If you took a snapshot in 2015 and then you took a snapshot in the end here of 2025, going into 2026, the aggressiveness, the just conservativeness of the people in power and the people in charge, we are light years ahead of where we were a decade ago, thanks to President Trump, thanks to Charlie Kirk, thanks to people like you, Harme.

00:40:54.000 And so I just want to make sure as there's all this consternation and frustration in the base, it seems, with lack of results, we are moving in a very good direction.

00:41:06.000 We have Harmeet Dillon at the DOJ suing states to clean up voter rolls and having massive results.

00:41:14.000 The implications of that couldn't be bigger, Harmit, because it's going to affect the midterms.

00:41:19.000 It's going to affect 2028.

00:41:21.000 That's huge.

00:41:21.000 What states, I have to just ask, are the worst on the voter rolls?

00:41:25.000 Who is fighting you the most cleaning up their voters?

00:41:27.000 Is it California?

00:41:28.000 I would presume.

00:41:29.000 Well, California is definitely in resistance mode, New York, Maine, Illinois, the usual suspects.

00:41:36.000 All these states where they don't require voter ID, they don't, I mean, Minnesota, my goodness, you can, I mean, Scott Pressler, a friend of mine posted about this yesterday, where you can go in and simply vouch for somebody's address.

00:41:53.000 Like you can bring your eight Somali bugs in and say, I vouch for this person's address. 1.00

00:41:58.000 That's all you need.

00:41:59.000 You don't need a utility bill.

00:42:01.000 You don't need anything but some potential fraudster vouching.

00:42:05.000 That's insane.

00:42:06.000 You can't run a country like that.

00:42:08.000 We're running out of time, but I just want to say good work.

00:42:10.000 We have your back 100%.

00:42:12.000 And thanks for the updates.

00:42:14.000 Thanks for sticking with it.

00:42:15.000 And thanks for educating people a little bit.

00:42:18.000 I think that was important.

00:42:20.000 We will have you back on again soon.

00:42:21.000 Keep up the good work.

00:42:22.000 Thanks for having me.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 30, 2025

Will Minnesota’s Turning Point Ever Come?

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