FASHION IS AN ART Ft. Griffin Maxwell Brooks
Summary
On this episode of Comment Section, we have special guest Griffin Maxwell Brooks on the show! Griffin is a DJ, producer, and founder of TikTok, a social media platform that allows you to interact with and interact with other people. She also happens to be a trans woman, and we talk about her journey to self-discovery and self-expression.
Transcript
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I want people to be confused as to why they're attracted to me.
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Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Comment Section Show starring me, your fave,
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everybody knows me, yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Today we have the wonderful, the iconic, the legendary Griffin Maxwell Brooks.
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Griffin and I have been trying to sync up for over a year.
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And you're like, I know, I know, and we have to make it happen.
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And then I feel like I'm terrible at texting, which doesn't help.
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But it's just kind of like, oh my God, I love you, I miss you.
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We've been playing that phone tag for over a year.
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I was a mechanical engineering major at Princeton University.
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And I did exactly what mommy and daddy wanted me to do.
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I'm just like a goofy little girl that loves to do a little two-step.
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So first off, for those who don't know your lore, I know your lore.
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But you started TikTok when you were in college.
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So I kind of started it like when the pandemic hit and I went home.
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And then I went AWOL for a moment because I was like, ooh, what am I doing with my life?
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It just started out as a silly little thing that I did for fun.
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And then I began to embark on this journey of self-expression for myself that I think
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And a lot of it was just kind of like social, like political stuff.
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A lot of it was like fashion and like gender identity, like fashion through gender identity.
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And like my own, like, I don't know, just like journey on like coming into my own, coming
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into my identity, like coming out like what, four times now?
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That's the beauty of your platform and having people like you exist on certain platforms,
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especially because you see a different kind of representation, especially not just representation
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in general, obviously, as being like a non-binary person or trans person in general, but also
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navigating that journey of like discovering it, discovering what you like, discovering
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what you don't like, like how you express yourself, whether it's through fashion or art.
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I mean, I feel like I grew like alongside people.
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And like in cultivating this community, it's weird that people like look up to me because
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I feel like I look to like my like followers for like my own, like, like for advice and
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for my own kind of like what to do next in my journey.
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I feel like I spread myself out really thin and like in terms like what content I create.
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My content is just like, what am I doing today?
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Like, I'm going to get dressed up or I'm going to go, um, I don't know, like wherever.
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I'm going to go to Six Flags and make a meme about it.
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Like, I think it was just kind of random, but all through the lens of like, I think my
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own journey of like identity and self-expression.
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I'm so curious because I obviously when I went to college, like I, um, didn't have any
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I cringe to think if I did, um, if I had any sort of influence at that time, because it's
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Like you're going through, you're going through, um, almost like I call it like a pseudo adult
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Like you're an adult, but you're not fully independent yet.
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But you discover so many things about yourself and who you are.
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And so how was that having navigating, having the platform while you were going to school
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It was like, it's interesting because it was a little disjointed.
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You know, I, I gained the following while I was like away from school because I was just
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And then I had like a bit of a following, not I think enough to have like kind of like the
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brand, you know, the like GMB LLC that we're, we're at right now.
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But like, you know, I like returned to school and I was an athlete too.
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Um, so that was, it was, it was an interesting space to have a whole nother thing.
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I think it enhanced the college experience in that I had, I felt like I had this escape
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Um, I think Princeton is like a bit of a polarizing place.
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Cause there's a lot of privilege in like being in a place like that, but at the same
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time, like being somebody who like sticks out even a little bit, um, in such like an
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uptight place, like immediately makes that experience a bit jarring.
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Um, also just because like, I felt like I was like adulting on the side, you know, I felt
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like I, it was weird because school began to feel like the, like the side hustle, you know,
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and then I'm like doing social media full time and I'm like going to my silly little
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There's a robot that I built like, now it's fashion week.
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I think, um, it taught me a lot, you know, it was, I didn't have free time like ever.
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Um, cause you're working on and off the clock kind of thing.
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Like it just, I mean, it's part of the reason I ended up like retiring like a year early.
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Um, because it was just like, I don't, I currently we're getting like a solid two hours to sleep
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It's, it's, it's interesting now being on the other side of it and looking back and being
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That's why I said like, I can only imagine how difficult that must've been.
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And, and also so strange, like, because you're this entirely huge presence online and then
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you're also going to school at the same time, like the navigating of that.
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So like when I was an older person, I got my platform.
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It also, it, it sort of helped the, like the kind of like separation in that, like my,
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like, you know, my fan base wasn't like Princeton students really.
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It's just like, it was like random queer people around the world.
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Like who were simultaneously having like a crisis in the mirror.
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Do you, do you see a lot of, um, response from your audience where they're like, they
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Like, do they feel like you have made their, their own personal journeys, like easier navigating
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like gender and self-expression and just like existing in the world as who you really want
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I mean, like, that's kind of the reason I, like, I, I vividly remember like the moment
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like which I was in, which I was like first like recognized in public and somebody came
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up to me and they were just like, Oh, like I like your TikToks.
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And then they were like, yeah, like, like watching you do what you do and just like exist, like
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helped me realize like that I was non-binary and I was like, Oh, that's so sweet.
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I was like, I'm impacting people in ways that I can't even impact myself.
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But, um, yeah, I mean like, I'm, it's the reason like I do it.
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It's like hearing that like feedback and like listening to people speak about coming into
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themselves and like coming into their identity.
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Um, not like because of me, but like in tandem with me and like feeling inspired by me was
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like, Oh, like, like people want this, like people like see this representation and it's
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Especially I think too, cause obviously you're known for your, um, outfits.
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Sometimes I just kind of get a rise out of people.
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I think your outfits are so iconic and a lot of people have really gravitated towards you,
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Cause like you've had the platform for a minute, but I feel like especially within the
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last like year, your outfits have been like, people have been like, wow, that's like so
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Like, do you, uh, do you ever get a lot of questions about where you get your fashion
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I mean, I've, I speak about it sometimes cause I think like fashion was always like a,
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Um, but it sort of changed when I like was living in New York and I started like working and
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Um, cause I was always inspired by like the nineties club kids and like the aesthetic
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of like, like drag queens and club kids and, you know, just like nightlife presences because
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Um, and how it was such a vessel for like breaking the boundaries of expression in a
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way that I think doesn't happen like anywhere else.
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Like I think like specifically in nightclubs, people are like, there is like this essence
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of like expression through like drama and like almost like a characterization.
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And when I started doing it, it was more just like, it started out like I'm going to wear
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And then it became like a, this is kind of like a political statement, you know, I want
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to look iconic and I'm going to piss some people off.
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I want to be people question like what they like and why they like it.
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One day I wore a headlamp and the entire internet decided they were mad at me and I was like,
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But second of all, I feel even with your platform, especially about your, your videos about your
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fashion, what I love about it is you're constantly emphasizing that clothes are not gendered because
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You can wear literally anything you want whenever, all the time.
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And at the same time, like you said, you're, you're pushing boundaries.
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Like you're trying new silhouettes, you're trying new accessories, like stuff that's just
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When I see maximalist fashion people on TikTok, I eat it up.
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Some of the, I can't keep up with some of these girls.
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I absolutely love that kind of look because I feel like what's so cool,
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cunt about it is like, you just would never think.
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You would never think to put those pieces together.
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Have you had those kinds of like, this is so ugly, this is so like, I would never wear
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Well, I also just, cause I, like at the end of the day, like it's just like fabric and
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And like, for some reason, like people mad, right?
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And like years of like conventional beauty standards, like forcing people to like feel
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the need to present in a way, which is just based on like all types of prejudice, like
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has like forced them into thinking like, Oh, like a man can't wear a skirt.
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I think too, uh, even like, you know, it's so funny when I first started doing this and
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I started going to events and stuff, like when I first started trying new kinds of silhouettes
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or looks, like I remember getting like certain commentary where I was kind of like, well,
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Well, girl, when you get invited to a carpet, wear whatever you want.
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Whenever I see, like, I get commentary when they're like, that's so ugly.
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One of the first things I do is I go and look at what they wear.
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It's always a bitch in sweatpants who's like, I hate this outfit.
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What's even crazier is like, if someone that was considered conventionally attractive by all facets
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Eurocentric beauty centers, whatever they may be.
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But if someone wore that, then everyone would be like, oh, it's a shirt.
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My biggest qualm right now is like, there's like, I feel like people are going back to
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like minimalism in a way that just is like, I don't know.
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I keep seeing those like breakdowns of like Jacob Lorty's fits.
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I'm like, girl, he put on jeans and a cut off shirt and a little coach bag.
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But I even, even so, like for me, I genuinely believe like fashion is art.
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So whatever you feel beautiful in, whatever you feel current in, that's what you should
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And I just feel like don't throw stones if you're living in a glass house, girl.
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So like when people say shit to me about my looks and I go and look and you're just
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like a, don't throw stones from the Vineyard Vine store.
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That's not like, if I go and look at what you're looking and your outfit is super plain
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and boring to me, like, I mean, yeah, of course you're not going to like what I'm wearing.
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I also just, I think people like who were like the first of their kind are never appreciated
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You know, people like, like people like Julia Fox.
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That's a perfect, that's a perfect example of someone who was serving it and they didn't
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Before her time, I'm like, if you're before your time, it means that during your time
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So I'm like, if people hate me now, I'm doing something right.
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That's so T, especially someone like Julia, because her outfits, everyone, the way they
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memed the hell out of her, they were trying so hard to make fun of her outfits and now
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look, now everybody's recreating some of her iconic looks.
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What I loved about her too is the combination of the sexy and the grotesque, where it's
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like, like, like, like a very cunt outfit, but there's also something weird about it.
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I want people to be confused as to why they're attracted to me.
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I want people to look at me and be like, I'm into this.
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That's so T. That's actually a really good point.
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And, you know, Griffin was actually wearing a suit of armor at Fashion Week.
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A suit of armor and was photographed and it was posted everywhere.
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Literally sourced it from like a mutual of mine who was like the armor girl at FIT when
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that video went viral of her wearing like a suit of armor.
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And I was like, okay, like obviously we need to be friends.
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Because I was just like, I don't know, Fashion Week, that was for the Clean Estrada show.
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It's like awesome clothing and also just such like an attention to like detail in terms
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Every time that's always my favorite show to like turn a look at because I'm just like,
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I want to show up and like completely blow away their expectations.
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Because I think also like, like Fashion Week 2, there is like a, like a polarization in
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Like some people are looking to serve in a way that's very like palatable from like a commercial
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That being said, like if you're design it out, like quiet luxury is like my worst enemy.
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You just mean boring clothes you spend too much money on.
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That's why I love someone who's not afraid of a look.
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Like even someone like, if you think about someone like Zendaya, right, who's obviously
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But when she was first coming out and she was trying new looks.
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This is so, like when she wore that bubble hair at the kids choice awards, like her hair
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I miss like the, like the swag, like over filtered Zendaya from like the two and tens, you know,
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which it's like the mirror, like Instagram filter.
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Who would you say is your like fashion inspo as of right now?
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I know, I'm sure it changes some staples other than you.
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I've been trying to like pay more attention to like designers.
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Just because whatever, like I work in fashion now.
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Like designer wise, like I like kind of have been living and dying by Glenn Martins.
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In terms of like, like long-term influence, like in my fashion.
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I mean, Clara, like Tiny Jewish Girl has always inspired me.
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I think like when I first started doing like the club looks, it was a lot of like James
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St. James and even like Amanda Lepore and like, like the club kids of like the day.
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Every time I see her, I'm like, oh, you look so beautiful.
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It's hard to pinpoint like style icons for me because I feel like my taste fluctuates
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Like you have some people that you constantly reference or go back to.
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And then you have people that, new people that kind of appear.
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I'm like just now dipping my like very, very, very one singular toe into fashion.
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And even for myself, like as like I'm a bigger girl, even when I had talked to stylists,
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Because you're, you're literally, you have the brain to style yourself.
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So I, when I talk to stylists, I so often, like because I'm so curious, have you thought
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about going into styling at all or fashion in general?
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I think it makes me nervous just because I think my like fashion is so eclectic that
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I'm going to be like, you're going to look great in this.
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People are going to be like, what are you talking about?
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Um, and I really enjoy doing it, but sometimes like I get carried away and I'm like, let's
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And they're like, girl, like I gotta be on camera.
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I just think you would soar in that, in that realm too.
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If you ever thought about either styling or making your own line or anything like that.
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What I love too is like people like yourself, I think would be so impactful in the industry
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Someone who's just got a completely different brain outside of it.
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Because even like, as I like start going into styling more, like I have stylists now and
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even now it's like, it's harder for myself as like a bigger girl.
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So just getting styled in general is a nightmare.
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But even when I, especially when I want to serve, I want to serve, I want to do something
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And it's harder for me cause I'm like a bigger girl.
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So that's why I feel like someone like yourself with your brain, the way it works.
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I also, especially like things like fashion week, like there's not really attention to
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And me and Griffin were talking about it offline.
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Like fashion week is not nearly as fun as you may think it is.
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When I tell you I was ill afterwards, I was in bed for like a week.
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Yeah, it's literally no sleeping and everyone is running off literally nothing but caffeine.
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Well, also like the shows that people love to do their shows in like stupid places because
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it's all about like, you know, it's all about the pageantry of it all.
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It was me like riding my bike to Rockefeller, like riding a city bike to Rockefeller Center
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because I'm like, I'm not taking like a $40 Uber black, but me.
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Like, if I did it to every show, I'd be like, I'm not making money from these events.
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Literally, there's no money involved, like at all.
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Unless someone gets paid to do a brand deal with a specific designer, like there is no
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And that being said, like I, I mean, I go to the shows that I like.
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Like I go and I watch like, because I love the artistry of it all.
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And it's good because I don't get invited to the boring shows.
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So it's like, I only go to the crazy ones, which I love.
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But even the scene itself is very influencer-y.
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That was my first, when you and I saw each other, we saw each other at the TikTok Fashion
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And when we talked about it, I was telling you, I'm like, I, this is my first ever fashion
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I have never been surrounded by so many people that are like, uh, the, the textbook definition
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Everyone is like, like pushing in front of each other, being in front of the camera.
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They are, they're mean and they're rude and everyone is in a bad mood.
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Probably because nobody's slept or eaten in days.
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And it's also, everyone is like trying to prove something.
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That's what half the time I was like, the night would end and people are like, you know,
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I'm like, no, I'm going to go either to bed or I'm going to go to like a rave where I
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I'm going to go, I'm going to go to the dirtiest, stinkiest warehouse, like drip down whatever
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I was wearing that day and just shades on and ignore you all.
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Speaking of, I saw that you were Stefan for Halloween.
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I've been waiting to do that costume for so long.
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Wait, I only did one Halloween costume this year because six days in a row, like you've
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Like I'm, you know, I'm good at what I do, but not that good.
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I DJed at like Boom Boom Room for Halloween night, which is like, I don't know, they do
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It's like New York's hottest club, which like, you know, whatever.
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I had people be like, I didn't even see you DJing because of the wig.
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They were like, who is this bitch with the Bayang and the Ed Hardy?
00:25:54.020
So speaking of dressing, we're talking about our topic today is navigating gender expression
00:26:00.380
online as a creator, as a person, whatever it may be.
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So for those of you who don't know, what we do here on the comment section is we bring
00:26:06.880
videos that I was tagged in that are applicable to our topic today.
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And then we'll laugh, make fun of it, kiki, whatever.
00:26:15.840
So for this first video, in this video, a person is explaining a very basic breakdown
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of how adjusting your language to use they, them pronouns really isn't that complicated.
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They say how you can just address one person the same way you would address a group of people
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and that they, them pronouns have actually been used to address individuals dating back
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Believe me or not, as someone who has multiple non-binary friends, it's not nearly as hard
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And it's like, well, if you just talk to them like normal humans, it's pretty easy.
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Also, because I, the people who are complaining about it, I'm like, I can't imagine you have
00:27:05.660
Like, how many, how many non-binary people are you around on a daily basis?
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Who are you interacting with that's non-binary on a regular basis?
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But also, even when you talk to your cis friends, you don't gender them all the time while you're
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It's not very, like, that's not natural anyways.
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I always think of it like, like, people use the comparison of, like, if somebody's absent,
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you don't know their gender, then, like, people default to that.
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They'll be like, oh, someone lost their jacket.
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Yeah, when they say that, you're like, I'm not doing those pronouns.
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It seems like it's such a impossible task for someone who I think is going out of their
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Like, so, yeah, I mean, it's probably going to be harder for you.
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I like when people can't figure out what to call me.
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You know, and they're like, she, and I'm like, uh-huh, keep going.
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Because at the end of the day, like, I don't know.
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I think I see people who are so, like, so bent on, like, offending you because they
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don't, like, they don't believe in you, basically.
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Like, if you're that hell-bent on, like, not acknowledging me as a person, just don't
00:28:25.660
Because at the end of the day, like, it's not, like, a hard request.
00:28:29.740
And I think that the people who are, like, so hell-bent on, like, disobeying it are just
00:28:36.120
That's why they're trying, like, actively trying to, like, resist being inclusive, which
00:28:41.600
I'm always, like, inclusivity costs you nothing.
00:28:46.240
And like you said, just don't address me at all, then, if it's really that part of a
00:28:57.140
And honestly, non-binary people, even in my experience with having non-binary friends,
00:29:01.980
like, they are so patient and, like, they are not, like, jumping down your throat if
00:29:10.520
Like, they shouldn't have to be that way, but they are, which is so sweet.
00:29:15.380
It just makes me feel even worse that people are so awful for no reason.
00:29:19.080
I think also just, like, the world is very gendered, you know?
00:29:22.000
Like, the Western world is, like, I don't know, they love gender here.
00:29:24.680
It's, like, here in Italy, it's, like, their favorite thing.
00:29:28.160
But, like, I think because of that and because, like, of how, like, overexposed we are to,
00:29:33.680
like, the norms associated with, like, gender and, like, how we associate gender with, like,
00:29:38.080
sex and just, like, familial existence and, like, yada, yada, yada.
00:29:41.540
Like, I could go on and on about, like, the American dream and all that BS.
00:29:45.040
But, like, I think, like, because of that, like, I, like, understand that even for people
00:29:50.520
who are, like, very loving and caring and, like, want to be, like, respectful that, like,
00:29:55.560
Not only are people going to mess up, like, you are trained to mess up.
00:29:58.600
Like, they don't want, like, people to defy these boundaries that they've set up for them.
00:30:07.820
Having said, like, I get nervous correcting pronouns from people.
00:30:11.460
I just, I feel like I'm, like, I feel like I'm going to say it.
00:30:13.700
People are going to be, like, oh, like, whatever.
00:30:22.940
Like, that's why, like, it never really bothers me when people get it wrong.
00:30:26.400
Because also, like, 99% of the time if I correct somebody, they're going to be, like, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:30:35.660
I mean, when people, you know, second or third time, I'm, like, okay.
00:30:42.540
But at the end of the day, it's just, like, I think if you're willing to take the time to just, like, hear somebody out.
00:30:53.440
The thing is, when you try, you quickly realize it's not that hard.
00:30:57.840
As someone who has not, not only has non-binary friends and trans friends in general, but also has talked to them for extensive periods of time.
00:31:09.300
Like, it's, to make it seem like it's such a chore is truly just, like, you just don't want to do it.
00:31:17.240
I just think people, like, the media has painted, like, well, they painted trans people as, like, aggressors, I think.
00:31:23.060
In a way that, like, I don't know, it roots from, like, trying to, like, masculinize trans women, and I think it's, like, fucked up for all sorts of reasons.
00:31:28.720
But, like, I think people and, like, the conservative, like, alt-right of it all, like, have this perception that if you misgender trans person, they're gonna, like, beat you up.
00:31:36.800
And I'm like, girl, like, if somebody misgenders me, like, the first thing that happens is I correct them.
00:31:44.300
Like, I have better things to do than to be referred to something that I'm not.
00:31:47.100
Well, and also, like, you think that all, like, you just think trans people are looking for cis people to attack.
00:31:55.180
Like, they don't hang out with, they want you to leave them alone.
00:32:10.160
Like, the same thing I've talked about, I even talked about it recently with someone where I was talking about how the war on drag that happened, like, all this year and last year was literally, well, obviously, they're attacking just queer people in general.
00:32:25.500
Like, they're trying to attack trans people all the time, every time.
00:32:30.500
And so, I feel like that rhetoric of, like, them just, like, trans people are just waiting to, like, attack you for something, it's just so not true.
00:32:42.260
Like, just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone.
00:32:55.140
I'm not looking to, like, you know, meet halfway.
00:32:57.240
Like, if you're not down with the shit, like, if you're not here to, like, respect my identity, like, that's okay.
00:33:04.220
They're going to love you in, like, Milwaukee or whatever.
00:33:07.840
And it's, like, it's in the same kind of neighborhood where sometimes people will ask me, like, oh, is this how you treat men, you know, that you hang out with or whatever?
00:33:15.860
And I'm like, I don't hang out with misogynist girl.
00:33:19.380
Like, when I meet a man I fucking hate, he knows I hate him and I never see him again.
00:33:26.800
Just the same way I don't hang out with homophobes, I don't hang out with racists.
00:33:29.620
Well, it's also just, like, I feel like people like that don't understand that, like, there is, like, an incompatibility that exists in being around those people.
00:33:48.300
That's why I'm like, it goes far beyond just morals.
00:34:00.800
I haven't been to a Bass Pro Shops unless I was filming a video making fun of Bass Pro Shops.
00:34:10.100
Like, we have nothing in common far beyond them being a bigot.
00:34:22.120
So, this comment says, as if life isn't stressful enough, now these people.
00:34:31.380
I don't sit around stressing about what non-binary people are up to.
00:34:59.620
Like, do you, like, feel like you walk into Stop and Shop and someone, like, spanks a pronoun
00:35:11.660
It's the same as when people started putting them on, like, their Zooms or their emails
00:35:22.360
It's also, I feel like, because it upsets people to, like, have to acknowledge that queer
00:35:28.340
Like, that's why it was given, like, pronouns in bio and pronoun in your Zoom name.
00:35:32.060
And it was like, oh, my God, they're everywhere.
00:35:33.600
And I'm like, they've been here the whole time.
00:35:41.800
You're just mad because you liked the fantasy that you had that everyone, like, lived within
00:35:47.720
the same sad confine that you feel restricted to.
00:35:53.780
It's so funny, too, because I kicked a very different hornet's nest than I typically do
00:36:01.660
Because I was addressing this one guy who was saying, like, he had made some fuck-ass
00:36:06.580
video about, like, oh, take her out of her masculine era and put her in her feminine
00:36:12.740
And so I talked about in the video, like, this is one of the few times people on the
00:36:16.760
internet, like, get to hear me not be like, suck my wiener, eh.
00:36:19.980
I'm, like, actually trying to, like, educate you to some extent.
00:36:22.920
And I'm, like, I think this is garbage for multiple reasons, one of them being it's just
00:36:31.560
But I was, like, but more importantly, like, a lot of them, even some women were really,
00:36:36.740
well, you don't agree with men, you know, women who want to be taken care of.
00:36:41.460
I said that this argument is hidden underneath this, like, veil of, like, oh, I just want to
00:36:48.020
And I was, like, but the masculine feminine era, like, energy thing, you cannot gender
00:36:58.180
And that, when I said that, ooh, the spiritual girls were up my fucking ass, bitch.
00:37:06.860
Like, masculine energy and eras are real, blah, blah, blah.
00:37:11.300
And if you do any sort of historical research at all, you would find that out, too, because
00:37:17.560
gender is a man-made construct and it's a byproduct of colonization and white supremacy.
00:37:22.320
And I was, like, my own culture had no genders.
00:37:25.820
We had multiple genders, actually, prior to being colonized.
00:37:28.780
Now it's a gender binary, but that's because of colonization.
00:37:32.380
And I was, like, that's how most cultures were, like, before colonization.
00:37:35.640
So, when people operate within, like, within neither gender binary, that has been around
00:37:45.560
Way before, like, the binary became, like, the popular metric.
00:37:49.900
That's why I was, like, that has been around longer than you could even believe, if I'm
00:37:53.760
So, like, the fact that now, in modern times, people are having a discussion about non-binary
00:38:01.880
I was, like, just because you just found out yesterday doesn't mean that they appeared
00:38:07.000
I always find it interesting, too, when, like, post-colonial spiritualism, like, starts to,
00:38:12.360
like, overwrite, like, kind of, like, where these practices come from and, like, the communities
00:38:17.380
Because it's, like, if you're then taking, like, modern, like, white supremacist ideas
00:38:21.360
and, like, rewriting the same file and, like, putting it over, like, what you think you're
00:38:26.460
practicing, like, you're not only doing a disservice, like, to yourself, but to, like, history.
00:38:33.900
Like, the spiritual practice that you're colonizing or taking, you're, like you said, rewriting
00:38:39.440
And that's why I was saying it's crazy to me because there are people in my own culture,
00:38:47.620
It's very, I think they're called two-spirit, too, in Native Indigenous cultures.
00:38:57.640
Wait, they're, like, every single, like, community, like, culture and existence has
00:39:02.740
had, like, not only, like, non-binary people, but, like, trans people.
00:39:07.140
And they exist in, like, different capacities in, like, I don't know, I, like, wrote this
00:39:10.420
paper about, like, the travesties in, like, Brazil.
00:39:13.440
Like, there's, there are, like, like, different, like, subsets of, like, transness, whether it's,
00:39:17.740
like, non-binary, like, trans-feminine, trans-masculine.
00:39:20.480
Or, like, even, like, people who can refer to themselves as, like, cross-justice.
00:39:22.880
Like, there's, like, a whole series, like, it exists everywhere in every culture.
00:39:28.120
So, to stand up and be, like, this is, like, like, the, like, liberal agenda in 2023.
00:39:32.840
I'm, like, did you, like, did you crawl out of the bubble yesterday?
00:39:36.320
Did you just, just, were you born literally yesterday?
00:39:39.300
Like, that's why I'm saying you guys are loud and wrong, as always.
00:39:43.860
You guys are so uneducated about things that you know nothing about.
00:39:47.400
And that's why, even when I talked about that, I was, some people were, like, oh, girl,
00:39:54.080
I'm all, say, because you guys want me to tell men to suck my wiener all day, which I
00:39:56.940
will, but that does not mean that I don't, I don't know a little something something about
00:40:03.100
But it's truly, it's so exhausting to me having to have that conversation because I'm, like,
00:40:09.960
Like, you genuinely don't know what you're talking about, and you don't want to have that
00:40:13.020
It's an interesting internet phenomenon that people think if you're funny, then you have
00:40:17.580
I also think it's, like, it's, like, a consequence of, like, the parasocial relationship where
00:40:25.600
Like, I wear funny things and I say funny things, but also I have a brain, girl.
00:40:31.500
And sometimes, every time I'm not solely making fun of men, and I start kind of talking
00:40:37.180
my shit a little bit, they're, like, oh, you are kind of smart.
00:40:46.320
I'm, like, oh, like, you didn't know that before?
00:40:50.720
Also, just, like, why am I dumb until proven smart?
00:40:56.240
This funny, stupid bitch is actually kind of smart.
00:41:14.660
Okay, so, in this video, a person is sitting in their car eating a sandwich, looking into
00:41:19.900
the camera with the caption, I'm genuinely so confused.
00:41:26.360
Like, you would identify as a female, but use he, him pronouns.
00:41:31.660
Do they just like the sound of the word better?
00:41:39.000
Like, they're saying you'd identify as a female, but use he, okay, so, you're right.
00:41:46.500
Not everyone identifies as the gender they were assigned at birth.
00:41:54.980
But also, it just, because this discourse happens, like, inside and outside the queer community.
00:41:59.800
Because I think people who, like, are, like, gender essentialists, like, not in the queer community
00:42:03.220
and see, like, someone who was assigned one thing and births and identifies as somebody
00:42:09.200
And it's, like, okay, you don't know what's going on here.
00:42:11.340
And then within the queer community, people are, like, oh, if you're, like, a lesbian,
00:42:14.380
you can't go by they, them pronouns or, like, all this stuff.
00:42:16.120
And I'm, like, at the end of the day, these are all made-up words to describe made-up things.
00:42:20.360
So, like, if I'm, if I want you to be, like, I'm it, it's, and my name is Sparklepuss,
00:42:29.040
And, like, if I want you to call me something, that's what you should call me.
00:42:31.340
And if I don't want you to call me, you know, like, little baby bitch girl, then don't call
00:42:41.680
Like, that's the thing is people are so hung up on, like, words and language personifying
00:42:49.540
And I think, I don't know, when you, like, when you're sheltered and you're only exposed
00:42:54.260
to, like, like, an echo chamber of, like, Fox News and your own thoughts, like, it makes
00:43:01.180
But also, like, like, don't be so afraid of something that you don't understand.
00:43:06.720
And also, like, I think it takes just, like, a really basic sense of compassion to meet
00:43:11.120
somebody, have them tell you, like, I would like to be called this and referred to by
00:43:23.460
It's so hell bent on, like, reinforcing these norms that were, like, hammered into your head
00:43:27.920
But then you, like, you leave your bubble, you see, like, culture that, like, is not
00:43:33.200
You said, too, when you leave your bubble, it's, like, such a, it's such a silly and ignorant
00:43:38.240
thing to believe that everything that you've known in your tight circle is how the world
00:43:43.300
Like, what's the difference between that and when, like, fucking pilgrims thought that the world
00:43:49.700
They're like, oh, you'll just fall off the edge.
00:43:52.280
Like, you're living in a bubble that's, like, telling you one thing, but you have literally
00:43:56.700
Christopher Columbus showed up to a world that he didn't discover and called it India.
00:43:59.860
And he was just like, nah, you guys are Indians.
00:44:04.820
Like, some people still call Native American people that to this day.
00:44:08.520
Like, U.S. legislation, like, that uses the word Indian.
00:44:16.600
My point is, like, you leave your bubble and you just throw, like, your perspective of,
00:44:45.020
I feel like, even, like you said, it's, if I tell you, like, it's the same, even if you
00:44:50.420
were to simplify it down to something like names, I changed my name.
00:45:08.100
So, like, who the fuck are you to tell me that's not it?
00:45:13.980
And then it's just, we're, again, we're going in this circle.
00:45:23.180
It's just, it's so, it's so silly, I feel like, to, like, be, what do you just, you're
00:45:29.360
Like, twiddling your fingers, like, to get about, like, oh my God, they're
00:45:34.680
There's people, most, let me tell you something, most they, thems hate kids.
00:45:40.700
My mother is, like, a, like, a public school teacher.
00:45:44.740
I, like, okay, I shouldn't say that, but she's very good at her job.
00:45:48.580
I, like, I can't be around, like, children, for example.
00:45:57.820
Also, like, like, I don't know, whenever I, whenever I go to, like, I club a lot.
00:46:03.100
Sometimes you go to, like, concerts that are, like, 18 plus.
00:46:15.280
Everyone's like, you're coming after the children.
00:46:16.300
I'm like, I'm actually running away from your children.
00:46:18.900
I'm like, most, most people, like, even with drag queens.
00:46:26.520
Especially, like, also, like, because, like, the kids that these people are trying to protect from me are, like, already indoctrinated by those people.
00:46:41.340
That's why I was like, most, most people that they demonize and personify as, like, oh, they're, they're, they're coming after kids or whatever.
00:46:51.220
Any show that they do, they don't want kids there.
00:46:53.440
It's very, it's very famously and widely known.
00:46:57.660
Like, like, especially with, like, drag, like, drag isn't, like, inherently sexual, but, like, the state of being queer, thanks to, like, the U.S. of A, like, is sort of, like, sexualized because of the way people see it.
00:47:07.620
So, like, at the end of the day, it's, like, if my liberation and, like, my, like, freedom of expression is something that you feel needs to be policed, then, like, at the very least, just get your kids away from me.
00:47:16.340
Like, at the very least, just let me do my thing.
00:47:18.280
And, like, like, you know, we'll, we'll undo and, like, rework, like, why you think, like, being queer is inherently sexual, which is, like, a flawed mindset.
00:47:31.200
When, when you sexualize them immediately, it's the same thing with trans women or men.
00:47:35.080
When you sexualize them immediately, that's a you problem.
00:48:07.240
This one says, they're bored and realize their logic has no value, so they just destroy all the rules.
00:48:25.600
Definitely referring to like all of us, but I'm like, you never know.
00:48:29.000
You ever like, you refer to like three non-binary people and it's like referring to you, you, you,
00:48:36.120
Well, that's why like some of my friends are non-binary lesbians and I'm like, okay, cool.
00:48:43.100
I was like, I was wondering, like the point you're like, no, like slay.
00:48:46.580
Like, that's why you tell me that and I go, okay.
00:48:50.580
Again, made up words to describe like made up things.
00:48:53.500
Like, like, yeah, you can be whatever you want to be.
00:48:57.600
They're like, I identify as a non-binary lesbian and I'm like, work it.
00:49:03.860
Because also, I think, yeah, I don't know, like back and forth about like what labels
00:49:08.280
To me, like, I don't know, I hate when it like festers in like an echo chamber of like
00:49:11.020
the queer community too, because then it's just like, this is just infighting.
00:49:16.320
Well, you're like, we're splitting hairs at this point.
00:49:18.840
And also like, just, I don't know, at the end of the day, like let people identify how they
00:49:23.500
Labels can be really useful because it's how people built community.
00:49:26.960
Like, we wouldn't have community without labels because it's how we find each other.
00:49:30.560
But then like, when you get down to like the, like, you can't be these three things and
00:49:37.400
Have you tried just like, just like letting people live?
00:49:40.700
And if somebody, if the way someone identifies, like really gets in the way, like aforementioned,
00:49:47.760
I personally don't give a fuck because it doesn't hurt me as long as everyone's happy and no one's
00:49:54.720
That's, that's all that really, that's really required to be my friend.
00:49:57.420
Also, the debate about like non-binary lesbians, like at the end of the day, like if the gender
00:50:01.240
binary is made up, then you could be anything in a lesbian.
00:50:08.680
Like, people are like, you have to be a woman to be a lesbian.
00:50:12.940
But also like, like, I don't know, womanhood and manhood are already very fragile concepts
00:50:19.980
So like, maybe let's not like, like stick to like reinforcing those norms.
00:50:23.780
That's kind of, I feel like, I feel like even in moments like that, and I can obviously
00:50:27.400
only speak to like my own, uh, like cis heteronormativity, but it's like, I think in moments
00:50:32.820
like that, that's where you really start to unpack your own, um, things that you haven't
00:50:39.580
We all have them and we're all actively unpacking them as we get older and evolve and want to
00:50:45.740
So I feel like even then you, when you feel those start to flare up, I feel like sometimes
00:50:49.940
it's just like, sometimes I think it's a defense mechanism.
00:50:55.620
Um, and those are all things that are not inherently bad, but it's more so when it starts to harm
00:51:00.100
others where it's like, that's where you're like, okay, maybe I shouldn't.
00:51:03.080
Unpack why I feel the need to like, you know, really get up in arms about it.
00:51:07.140
But for me, I'm just like, as long as you're cool and I'm cool, we're cool.
00:51:12.660
Like, I think if you're great, I'm whatever, whoever you like and however you identify.
00:51:21.500
As long as you're not a cis straight man being awful, then you're not my op.
00:51:33.180
This last comment says they just want to be cool and different.
00:51:46.500
All of my friends who are part of the LGBTQIA plus community are the coolest bitches I've ever met in my entire life.
00:51:56.400
I wish to God I could have been an ounce of as cool as someone like Griffin or even someone like ER5 Master who's non-binary or Hina who's non-binary.
00:52:26.920
They're much cooler than any cishet person I personally know, including myself.
00:52:31.400
So that's why I'm like, that's T, honestly, because it's true.
00:52:34.720
Well, it's also just like people, you just want to be different.
00:52:44.020
Well, and also you are, you have felt different your whole life.
00:52:47.420
Why do you think the gender binary doesn't work?
00:52:49.820
Like, if I feel different, then like, I have the choice to either like be different or to
00:52:55.560
desperately trying to change myself in order to not be perceived as different.
00:52:59.580
Which like any queer person who's like been through that, which is like most queer people.
00:53:03.140
And like still to this day, like there are moments where like I feel like I need to do
00:53:12.500
It's like, it's like an invalidating feeling that's so, so contrary to like your own existence
00:53:21.300
Well, it's like, it's this argument that like, when we talk about like trans people
00:53:24.940
and like expression, like the, oh, like, like sometimes like I feel like people like
00:53:29.520
have to be like stealth or they have to be like not like, like visibly queer in order
00:53:33.900
to like conserve their space or to conserve their space to be.
00:53:36.400
And people don't understand like just how harming that is.
00:53:40.060
That it's not like in like a, oh, like this stinks.
00:53:43.260
It is like a, you look in the mirror and you see something that isn't you.
00:53:50.100
It's just like, and I think to myself, like a lot of times, even so, like even, and probably
00:53:56.220
even you, like, I feel like in my experience talking to all my friends who are part of
00:54:00.420
the community and like their journeys of coming out, whatever that looked like.
00:54:03.660
Like, um, it was like for a long time they had to go through that.
00:54:08.700
You had to conform for so long until you get to a point where you're like, it's literally
00:54:16.940
It becomes, I mean, like, like statistically it's life or death for a lot of people.
00:54:21.000
Um, and I think the people that are able to navigate it, like, like we can tell you that
00:54:26.340
like, it is still like, it's like a gut-wrenching experience to be someone that you're not,
00:54:29.700
you know, and it's just, that's the kind of shit where I'm like, I cannot believe that
00:54:39.660
Like that kind of experience that I could never imagine feeling every single day.
00:54:46.180
And then when I do hear about it and it kills me to hear about it, I think like evil people
00:54:58.240
Like there's just no, thinking about that and thinking about people having to like stifle
00:55:01.720
who they really are or how they want to express themselves because of fear of retaliation like
00:55:09.620
And it's a reality for so many people too because especially for like, I don't know, like people
00:55:13.580
who are trans in like a very visible way or if you're like are trans and you're like
00:55:17.160
still along like, you know, the way in your transition to a point where like, like if
00:55:20.620
you're, whether or not you pass is like a whole like conversation to have like that has
00:55:24.400
nuance and like kind of varies from like where you are and who you're around.
00:55:27.420
But like, it is like, I don't know, it's life or death for people in like a lot of
00:55:32.620
At the end of the day, it's just like, like there's just no justification to like not
00:55:36.960
being okay with like somebody's like very existence the way they want to express themselves.
00:55:44.280
It makes me angry, which is why I keep, I've fought so many transphobes.
00:56:00.880
I, I had one, there was one girl and I don't remember her name and I never fucking will
00:56:05.520
But like, and that's like, and I don't say that lightly cause it was someone who was
00:56:13.520
But yeah, but part of the, part of the reason why I was so fucking angry when I saw that
00:56:18.640
girl was literally because she was tagging me and being like, well, people were tagging
00:56:24.380
me in her video, but then she was saying like, Oh, drew would support me cause she supports
00:56:31.660
Second, second of all, if you don't support all women, you don't support me.
00:56:36.860
And so I was like, that's not intersectional feminism.
00:56:39.120
Cause she got, she kept saying, Oh, she's a feminist.
00:56:41.140
She's a, I'm an intersectional feminist bitch that, that includes trans women.
00:56:47.620
And I remember I literally tweeted her and I said, you're a fucking turf and don't ever
00:56:55.320
When like, like turfs will like incite like who they perceive to be their feminist icons.
00:57:06.480
There's actually a really famous one you can pick.
00:57:12.900
Cause you're, you sure as hell are not picking me.
00:57:15.620
It's also just like, it's like, like if you think you're a feminist and like being transphobic
00:57:20.680
at all just goes, I mean, not only does it hurt trans women, it hurts cis women too.
00:57:25.820
Like you turn around and there is this like desire to, I don't know.
00:57:31.020
So my friend said this to me when I was in college, like my junior year specifically.
00:57:35.180
And then my senior year, I did a lot of activism for trans eligibility in sports.
00:57:39.860
Leah Thomas was swimming at UPenn and it was like the talk of the fucking town.
00:57:43.600
Um, and like the, the, the, the argument always devolves into like, like this, there's like
00:57:49.160
this biological unfairness, you know, like, like trans women are like bigger and strong.
00:57:53.900
It always devolves into like, Terps will get online or just like get on their soapbox,
00:57:59.460
especially in like the world of sports and like in the name of feminism, be like women
00:58:11.660
And it's like, you know, I could go on and on about like biological diversity and like
00:58:16.620
Like I could write a dissertation on like the, you know, biological centralism and like why
00:58:23.460
My, the biggest thing is just like, like if you don't see, like, I don't know, if you
00:58:28.000
consider yourself a feminist and you don't see trans women as a woman, like you can't
00:58:33.280
If you are at the very best, you're a white feminist, which helps no one but white women.
00:58:38.360
No, you put up a wall around womanhood that, A, not all, it doesn't only exclude like
00:58:48.820
Everyone except thin, cis, straight, white women.
00:58:51.820
So if you're a white feminist, then you're not a real feminist, in my opinion.
00:58:56.320
That's why I'm a proud and devout intersectional feminist.
00:59:00.240
And I said, and I even said, even at that point, I'm like, how could you possibly reference
00:59:06.540
First of all, I've had many trans women on my show of many different ethnicities and
00:59:11.180
It's always crazy too, because it just goes to show that they're not really like paying
00:59:30.260
One time I went to dinner with my boyfriend and a couple of people that we were like, we,
00:59:36.520
We knew them pretty well, but they just like wanted to double date.
00:59:39.960
And then when we went, um, one of the guy, he had said something, I forget what it was.
00:59:45.720
I don't even remember how it came up, but he had brought up, um, trans women in, in the
00:59:52.220
Cause I think at the time it was like a hot button topic.
00:59:55.460
Obviously they want to talk about that because they have nothing better to do.
01:00:01.080
And I remember my boyfriend was like, careful because I was like, cause as soon as he brought
01:00:08.960
I was like, Oh, suddenly I'm not hungry, but let's talk.
01:00:14.780
Like he just kind of backpedaled a little bit because I, again, I don't know if he thought
01:00:20.800
Um, but, and that's someone I never hung out with again.
01:00:26.020
So it's always so funny when people like backpedal cause they know they don't know what they're
01:00:29.920
I'm like, Oh, you just listened to a couple, like, you know, you listened to Ben Shapiro
01:00:40.420
So I feel like the topic itself is so, is obviously so incredibly nuanced, but I feel like what
01:00:47.560
is important to remember is like, if you just like leave people alone, you'll probably
01:00:56.340
With sports too, it was like, first of all, most of y'all did not care about women's
01:01:01.340
You guys were talking shit on women's sports until like 30 seconds ago.
01:01:05.420
Um, and like on top of that, it just, I don't know.
01:01:08.240
That whole situation was just like, you've based your entire opinion on a one person case
01:01:15.020
You watched a Ben Shapiro podcast and you read the onion thinking it was real.
01:01:21.100
And you know what I, I even tell, um, men like men who want to talk about trans women
01:01:26.940
in sports, whenever they bring it up, I'm like, well, you couldn't even make varsity
01:01:31.560
So I feel like you're not the person to ask about whether or not athletes are good enough
01:01:38.280
Even if you tried your hardest, if you went for a whole year, you wouldn't be able to
01:01:43.400
So I feel like you're not the person to ask like someone who's unathletic.
01:01:47.100
I'm not going to ask someone who's five, six, and you're talking about Olympian sprinters.
01:01:52.620
I'm not asking you like, Hey, I don't put her in the ring.
01:01:55.800
I'm like, Hey, I don't give a fuck what you have to say about professional female athletes.
01:02:00.080
Like you're not even mentioned in the conversation.
01:02:03.240
I don't want to hear it from like the, the men who could never make it even if they tried
01:02:08.140
No, like you're sitting there typing from your mom's basement.
01:02:13.700
I'm sure you're like, well, they don't deserve to be there.
01:02:20.060
So to wrap up this episode, uh, what would you say you want to say?
01:02:33.240
I want to tell to anyone who's maybe wanting to, whether it's try different kinds of fashion
01:02:40.080
looks or maybe just someone who's maybe navigating their own, um, gender expression or identity,
01:02:46.100
like whether it's publicly or privately, what would you say is your best piece of advice?
01:02:50.740
I always tell people like, believe in yourself, be confident.
01:02:52.800
And that feels like, well, duh, you know, um, I think confidence is something that's difficult
01:02:58.580
to come by, but when you do come by it, it, um, it's like life changing.
01:03:02.020
I think confidence isn't always about like looking in the mirror and loving everything
01:03:06.980
It's more about understanding like you, well, you should love everything about yourself,
01:03:12.060
even if it's not like exactly what you want, because like you are you and like you deserve
01:03:19.880
Also, like a big part of being confident is not having a fuck what other people think.
01:03:24.280
Like at the end of the day, like people are going to judge you no matter what.
01:03:28.360
So don't like look to please people, look to feel good, like, like, like whether it's
01:03:33.960
like through fashion, whether it's about like your identity, the way you express yourself,
01:03:37.920
the things you do, the people you surround yourself with, like the job you do, whatever.
01:03:45.100
So express yourself in the way that makes you feel best.
01:03:47.800
And when people have something to say about it, just know that like the people who are
01:03:53.660
Like people only talk about you when they don't have anything to say about themselves.
01:03:58.780
And like you said, it's like people don't appreciate them and their time.
01:04:02.300
So if they're talking, if they don't like you now.
01:04:05.900
Because in 10 years you can be like, remember her?
01:04:11.220
And you can say, like I can say, I knew Griffin was it.
01:04:25.000
Thank you so much, Griffin, for coming on this episode.
01:04:36.700
Thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
01:04:50.860
But if you crawl into a warehouse in New York, you might find me spinning.
01:04:53.460
Yes, I was going to say, where are you spinning next?
01:05:22.580
So make sure you check them out on literally everything.
01:05:25.240
As y'all heard, the handle is Griffin Maxwell Brooks.
01:05:31.640
Don't forget new episodes drop every Wednesday.
01:05:33.800
You can stream the audio for the comment section on all streaming platforms.
01:05:37.260
Or you can watch the video for free on Spotify.