In this episode of the comment section, I sit down with the legendary comedian Alokana Mckinnon to discuss how she became a force to be reckoned with on social media and in the world at large events like the NAACP Image Awards and the Human Rights Campaign.
00:01:28.280Look at us collecting awards at the same time, period.
00:01:31.120But I just thought it was so powerful what you were saying about how so often these Asian American events don't include Pacific Islander folks.
00:04:29.360And I feel like even someone like yourself, even just having a public presence on social media is not only like an act of protest, like you said, but also it's so brave and courageous.
00:04:41.820Like, I feel like social media has been such a powerful vehicle, especially in the last, like, five years for people to see other people that don't live the same life they do, that don't exist in the same bodies they do, that don't have the same life experience.
00:04:57.620And I feel like someone like yourself is so important to, like, broadening your perspectives on things, especially when it comes to intersectionality.
00:05:04.520I mean, honestly, it goes both ways, because I follow a lot of cisgender heterosexual influencers, and they teach me so much about their exotic cultural rituals.
00:05:16.160And I feel like I want to say thank you, social media, for diversifying my feed and my life and helping me grow empathy.
00:05:22.840Because I just feel like, you know, watching a lot of media about straight people growing up, I was like, do they know how to make decisions?
00:05:32.340Like, why do they keep on thinking that love will, like, save them from loneliness, you know?
00:05:36.720But then, like, through being able to, like, meet them on social media, I feel like I've grown and I've healed.
00:15:19.900I'm going to take that feedback, and I'm going to be crying tonight into my pillow.
00:15:25.280But I heard online that tears actually are really good for your skincare regimen, so.
00:15:30.140I mean, if that's the case, that's probably why we have such perfect skin.
00:15:33.520And I, even when I was, I was lighting some women up.
00:15:39.320But I was telling them, too, that it was really pissing me off, because I was saying that you excluding trans women from this feminist, like, viewpoint, it doesn't, you don't get to cut the line to equality.
00:16:33.640And so for what I understand feminism to mean is actually the creation of a world where gender has no stranglehold on people's possibility,
00:16:40.640where people can be the fullest and ripest version of themselves without the fear of violence.
00:18:19.940And then when they see people like you or like Dylan existing and not just centered or anchored in grief or violence or anything like that.
00:18:33.520And you see people like you and Dylan being happy and thriving and having friends and love and romance.
00:18:40.280And when they see things like that, they get even more mad because they're like, I've been taught my entire life that I need to look and act and be a certain way in order to find love, success.
00:19:51.820It was interesting because one time someone commented in my comment section, like, you and Drew both have diametrically opposed responses to haters.
00:19:59.240And I was like, I don't know if that's true.
00:22:11.100And what if laughter is the ultimate highest truth in the world?
00:22:15.260And I realized that for so long in my life, I've been intimately familiar with my pain, the ways I've been hurt, I've been discriminated against.
00:22:23.080What feels new for me is I'm becoming familiar with my joy.
00:22:27.140And laughter for me is that crystallized joy.
00:22:29.940It's like even when the world feels impossible.
00:23:42.300I think even to your point about laughter too is I feel like that's another reason why a lot of people gravitated towards my content regardless of like obviously I make silly jokes and all that shit.
00:23:53.620But I've said before when especially when I was initially growing, I had so many men make fucking think pieces about me like she's actually really mean.
00:24:57.600I've told them like, if you want to be mad, if you want to be angry, if you want to laugh at them and make fun of them back, you absolutely should.
00:25:03.180You can, you have every right to, in fact, I do.
00:25:07.580So it works, it works out pretty well, actually.
00:25:09.500And I feel like that kind of messaging and that kind of like platform that I've built has given people more courage to be, like you said, to laugh in the face of awfulness.
00:25:20.400Like, cause vitriol is awful and it is.
00:25:50.600As you were speaking, though, I was thinking also about false equivalencies, right?
00:25:54.400Calling you mean versus an anti-abortion law.
00:25:58.480You know, like what power do you have in understructural sexism to fundamentally shift the quality of life for men in this country, let alone this world?
00:26:44.940I think that what we've seen with like the revamping of diversity and inclusion is now people are saying, if you're a harasser, you're equal too.
00:27:08.760And when they think about like spheres of influence, it's like this narratives that get created in the manosphere about women and trans people ruining culture.
00:27:17.940What's actually ruining Western civilization is climate change.
00:27:22.600Like you're not going to have a physical land.
00:27:47.980So I think the big realization I've had in my life is that all the people who are so angry at me are actually grieving from the same gender system I am.
00:27:55.840But it's so much easier to pinpoint it on me to say, oh, these nasty men in dresses, they're making me uncomfortable than it is to do the deeper, more introspective work to actually make this entire gender system.
00:28:47.260Which is like the goalposts are always moving, aren't they?
00:28:49.580Like, I'm just never doing enough or never doing it right instead of, like you said, you just introspectively looking and realizing that you're also contributing and also suffering at the hands of the same system that I'm trying to uproot.
00:29:00.840The greatest irony of it all is that the patriarchy, misogyny, any facet of bigotry harms all of us, including transphobia.
00:29:08.840Like, transphobia harms cis women, too, which is another thing I don't understand about TERFs.
00:29:13.500That's why I said, like, you think cutting them out is going to give you rights faster?
00:29:17.680You think it's going to equal the playing field?
00:29:19.460Or you think it's going to save you from suffering from transphobia?
00:29:22.800Even myself, people hurl vitriolic, transphobic things at me all the time.
00:29:27.180Because I'm a tall woman, I'm a brown woman, I'm like, there's all these different facets of my intersectionality that are playing a role into them, masculinizing me.
00:29:35.560But that's another reason why I'm like, you clearly are not advanced enough.
00:29:39.500Like, you're clearly, you haven't been educated enough.
00:29:41.780It's an ignorance, whether it's on purpose or subconscious.
00:31:57.280And what I found for me, my relationship to rage is I want to experience rage, but I want to redirect that rage in the places where it actually matters.
00:33:10.300But I think that what I struggle with is that oftentimes people think it's idiosyncratic or ridiculous that someone like me could default into compassion.
00:33:24.720And it's also, like you said, it's prioritizing you in that sense because it's kind of, it's in the same vein as for me with my content is how I, me choosing to laugh at it.
00:33:37.900Like people say the most awful shit about me all the time and I've stitched videos of men literally talking only about me and saying awful things about me and then I laugh about it and move on with my life.
00:34:02.300So if I draw all of my power and courage and strength and confidence from myself and myself alone, anything that anybody says to me doesn't mean anything to me, doesn't hurt me, doesn't harm me.
00:34:12.500If anything, it says more about them than it does about me.
00:35:02.640Because there are people in the world who I believe are out here championing the gospel of self-love and also need to be part of a collective of people doing that.
00:36:16.720And I feel like that's what I've done is built community, even outside of my, outside of my immediate family and my loved ones.
00:36:24.460I've built a really, a really, really strong community of people online who it's like enveloping you in a really warm hug.
00:36:31.720And I feel like that's why a lot of people feel really safe whenever they come to see me in live shows or whatever, because my fan base is just like me.
00:36:52.480I'm sure at this point, though, your laugh is so influential that maybe when they're laughing in the crowd, you're like, am I laughing at myself?
00:40:24.820They will do whatever they can, pass hundreds of pieces of laws, completely lie about who they are, just so they don't have to contend with what they see in the mirror.
00:40:35.600But the difficulty of the life that I had made it so that I had to because I wasn't going to get validation for my family, wasn't going to get validation for my culture and my community, wasn't going to get validation anywhere else.
00:40:46.560So I had to look in the mirror and actually say, who do I want to become?
00:41:08.440And that was some of the most silent and spectacular work I've ever done.
00:41:11.620But now that I'm, I don't know if you're ever on the other side, but I think now that I'm further along in that, I notice that I now perceive people's discomfort with me, not about my gender.
00:41:21.140I don't even use the word gender really as much anymore.
00:41:27.960Because when I'm saying it's about my spirit, it's about my energy, then it opens up a larger playing field here.
00:41:33.100This is not just about trans people being persecuted by cis people.
00:41:36.580This is about those of us who are seeking our truth and living a life that's based in truth, being persecuted by people who are living a false self or a lie.
00:41:45.100And once we element, once we escalate to the stakes of that, we have no choice but to have connection with each other.
00:41:51.900And it's also, it's so transparent, isn't it?
00:41:55.440When people, when you come across people and you meet them and you can tell immediately if they, like you said, they're afraid of your spirit.
00:42:03.100Like they see it so clearly and it intimidates them.
00:42:05.800And a lot of people react differently in those situations.
00:42:08.340Sometimes they react violently with anger.
00:42:18.400Even in my book that I wrote, I wrote a dedication at the end and there was a part I wrote about my boyfriend.
00:42:24.300And I talked about how I, right before I started dating him, I kind of, I had genuinely made peace with being alone.
00:42:30.520Because I told myself, if I, if I live a life by myself, like just with no partner, because I'm never truly alone, am I?
00:42:39.140But like I'm, I just without a partner, I'm okay.
00:42:42.240Because I have nothing but love and community and family and warmth and friendship and kinship just within my own life, just as it is right now.
00:44:10.620And I think that's what you said about sometimes when you meet people who are in their higher consciousness, you actually feel magnetized and pulled.
00:44:17.680That's a story that I didn't know because I think growing up as I did, I was always repelled, pushed away.
00:44:22.160But then when I finally started meeting my own people, there were people who it's like, oh, you've healed a part of me that I haven't healed yet.
00:44:47.040And I think it's important for those of us who are often seen as healed TM to be able to say, here are the parts of me I'm still healing.
00:44:54.380And I need to be in relation and in community and witnessing other people who have run marathons around my limiting belief systems.
00:45:01.620Yeah, I think, I mean, even so, like when I, I've had that like energy pull too before where I felt like I need, I want to be around this person more.
00:45:10.540Like, I feel like they, there's someone, they have something that I wish I had, whether it's like an energy or like a humor or intellect, whatever it may be.
00:45:20.960I feel really drawn to people who are more evolved than me in whatever capacity it might be because I feel like it inspires me and it motivates me.
00:45:30.640It makes me feel like we're all kind of moving in the same direction.
00:45:33.740We're all aspiring to something greater.
00:45:35.080So before this conversation, I was trying to convince Drew to make her debut as a standup comedian.
00:45:40.040And as someone who is more evolved in this space, I'm here to say right now, your unique constellation of trauma makes you an eligible candidate.
00:46:25.160And it's actually what the world needs.
00:46:26.600Because what I found is very different about comedy is that people are so, you can, you can sort of, it's like kind of like the peanut butter and the pill kind of situation.
00:47:44.900If Dua Lipa can go from being like an ambassador of human rights to being one of the best choreographed dancers on the stage, I can have versatility as well.
00:48:36.640Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips.
00:48:42.000Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple.
00:48:46.440And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top-tier table games.
00:48:52.480Make the most of your downtime with unbeatable promotions and jackpots that can turn any mundane moment into a golden opportunity at Golden Nugget Online Casino.
00:49:02.160Take a spin on the slots, challenge yourself at the tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action.
00:49:08.640All from the comfort of your own devices.
00:49:10.860Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino.
00:49:43.960So, that's me, like, pivoting more into a more intellectual brand.
00:49:47.880But it's the same kind of idea in my head, which is I've told people before, even when I elaborate a little bit further on, like, my ideologies and why I think the way I do and the processes that go in my head when I make videos, whatever.
00:50:01.340Whenever I tell people about it, I tell them, like, I, like, sometimes I'll get comments where they're like, you're actually, like, kind of smart.
00:50:08.220Which I, you know, again, like, yeah, again, I tell dick jokes on the internet, but I promise I am smart.
00:50:13.080But, again, peanut butter pill, I gotta, like, give it to you that way.
00:50:16.260Otherwise, you're not gonna listen otherwise.
00:50:18.520I mean, regardless, you'll be entertained.
00:50:19.860But at least you'll take something with you, too, and maybe learn a little bit more.
00:50:23.580I think part of that also is, like, the feminization of social media in our culture.
00:50:27.720It's seen as, like, less rigorous or less real.
00:50:53.900Is that you're also what you're facing again is, I think, a generational angst where a lot of, like, boomers don't understand that not only are we no longer in the era of logic, but also we're in an era now where there's a different way in which people are sharing knowledge production.
00:51:15.260And I feel like, I feel so lucky to be part of this generation, to have access to so much more information that's actually being done in a way that is delightful.
00:51:28.600So I also feel like probably what you're going to face and probably facing right now is people sleeping on your talent because they think it's just an internet sensation.
00:51:54.560When you confirmed, I was like, yes, because I'm such a huge fan.
00:51:58.620And I feel like I learned so much from you.
00:52:00.680And like I said, I feel magnetized to you, too, because I feel truly like being friends or being in community with people that are living a completely different experience from you.
00:52:11.600When I was growing up, especially when I went to college, I feel like fundamentally made me a better person.
00:52:16.640And whenever people ask me about higher education, I always tell them, like, if you have the means and you would like to, I encourage it.
00:52:24.020Just understand that obviously there's barrier of entry to a lot of different universities and everything like that.
00:52:28.540But I truly feel like the biggest privilege and the biggest asset that I gained from going to secondary schooling was community.
00:52:37.120I got to learn so much more about so many different people, and I became a better person, like I truly did.
00:52:42.820And I wrote about it a lot in my book, too.
00:52:44.580Even my close circle of friends, my girlfriends from college, who I'm still friends with to this day, I had never met a group of women that were so different from women that I had grown up around.
00:52:55.300Not in my own family, but just, like, girls I went to school with.
00:52:58.340Women that were so convicted in who they were, their sexual autonomy, their attitudes towards relationships and sex in general.
00:53:05.060I had never seen anything like that where it was so not something that weighed heavy on their integrity or their morality.