The Comment Section with Drew Afualo - HEALING™ Ft. Alok

00:00:00.160 Unfortunately, the one given truth that we all know is that we're going to die.

00:00:03.300 And are you going to look back on your life and be like, wow, I spent so much of my time in Drew's comment section.

00:00:08.560 What a noble, I'm so proud of you.

00:00:11.620 You did it.

00:00:12.840 Wow.

00:00:13.380 It was worth it.

00:00:14.160 So that's why there's always a tell.

00:00:15.640 You're telling on yourself.

00:00:16.840 Absolutely.

00:00:17.520 You're telling on yourself that you don't think that your life is worth leisure, peace.

00:00:21.380 You don't think that your life is worth fun.

00:00:23.240 You're going to waste your precious moments on earth hating me when in fact it's just a proxy for hating yourself.

00:00:29.200 That's tragic. 1.00

00:00:30.220 Damn. 0.99

00:00:30.800 So that's why. 1.00

00:00:31.960 That's a read, bitch. 1.00

00:00:39.120 Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the comment section show starring me, your fave. 0.99

00:00:43.520 Everybody knows me.

00:00:44.200 Who cares about me?

00:00:45.100 On to the guest.

00:00:46.480 Today, we have the iconic, the legendary, the amazing Alok.

00:00:52.240 Please announce me for the rest of my life.

00:00:54.920 I'm excited to hear what I have to say now, too.

00:00:57.100 Oh, my gosh.

00:00:57.760 Right?

00:00:58.140 I really teed you up.

00:01:00.140 I know.

00:01:00.640 That's one of the first things.

00:01:01.640 Please don't use sports metaphors going forward because I'm just going to walk out.

00:01:05.200 You're going to be like, okay, clearly I don't need to be here for this.

00:01:07.040 Yeah, they keep on saying that we have an unfair advantage when it comes to sports, but I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.

00:01:11.220 Because in order to have an advantage in sports, I'd have to play them.

00:01:15.480 Or care about them at all, which, oh, for two.

00:01:18.920 I'm so honored to have you on the show.

00:01:22.680 Thank you.

00:01:23.140 I'm excited to be here.

00:01:24.040 You're such an icon and a legend.

00:01:25.800 It was great to meet you at the Cape Awards a few years ago.

00:01:28.160 It was.

00:01:28.280 Look at us collecting awards at the same time, period.

00:01:31.120 But I just thought it was so powerful what you were saying about how so often these Asian American events don't include Pacific Islander folks.

00:01:37.620 So thank you for amplifying that.

00:01:39.880 Oh, my gosh.

00:01:40.420 Of course.

00:01:41.240 Yeah.

00:01:41.480 And it's May.

00:01:42.640 So now it's AAPI month, and no one can be mean to us.

00:01:46.900 No one's allowed to be mean to us.

00:01:48.160 Yeah, if you do, actually, you're violating everything.

00:01:51.560 Martial law will be enacted. 0.99

00:01:53.460 That's what will happen next.

00:01:54.380 You get thrown in jail for the entire month of May.

00:01:56.860 Sorry, I don't make the rules, so don't be mean to either of us.

00:02:02.780 But I'm so honored to have you.

00:02:04.200 I look up to you in so many ways.

00:02:05.960 As an activist, as just a figure on social media as a whole, as a comedian, I'm like, genuinely, I admire you so much.

00:02:15.500 So I'm honored to have you as a guest.

00:02:17.080 I think you're incredible.

00:02:18.480 Thank you.

00:02:19.000 And I'm going to give you your flowers the entire episode.

00:02:21.880 Thank you.

00:02:22.320 Thank you.

00:02:22.760 Florals and springs.

00:02:23.940 So original.

00:02:25.220 And AAPI?

00:02:25.980 It's like the Met Gala here.

00:02:28.480 Where the two of us are at the Met Gala?

00:02:30.580 They'd be mad.

00:02:31.120 If this was the Met Gala, they'd be mad.

00:02:32.620 They'd be mad.

00:02:33.780 They'd be mad.

00:02:33.960 They'd be mad.

00:02:34.220 They'd be mad.

00:02:34.280 They'd be mad.

00:02:34.340 They'd be mad.

00:02:34.480 They'd be mad.

00:02:35.000 Just the two of us.

00:02:36.600 Welcome to the show.

00:02:38.960 And I would love if you could kind of give everyone a little bit of background on your lore.

00:02:44.640 I'm very familiar with your lore.

00:02:46.380 But I'm so curious if you, or not me, but those who are curious, how you came to be this pillar of activism, of courage, of hope.

00:02:57.840 I'm so interested for other people to hear.

00:03:01.080 Yeah.

00:03:01.300 So I have a lot of feelings.

00:03:03.220 I've always been an extremely sensitive person.

00:03:05.580 Love.

00:03:06.380 When I was a young child, I was just confused.

00:03:09.040 Like, how are people pretending like this is okay?

00:03:12.900 And by this, I mean like small talk.

00:03:15.480 I can't, I can't do it.

00:03:17.760 Not a small talk person.

00:03:18.840 No.

00:03:19.240 And people are like, how are you?

00:03:20.280 I'm like existential dread.

00:03:22.800 And let's get into it.

00:03:23.880 Right?

00:03:24.180 Like, what's the meaning of life?

00:03:25.700 Like, I've always been someone, I used to watch these like documentaries about like black holes.

00:03:31.200 And I would just think about how I was like a speck of dusk in the cosmos.

00:03:36.540 Like, that's the kind of person I've always been.

00:03:39.400 And so I've never really been here for simple solutions, for easy answers, for immediate categories.

00:03:44.980 I've always wanted nuance.

00:03:46.240 I've always wanted depth.

00:03:47.360 I've always wanted complexity.

00:03:50.120 But I think that when you grow up in this country, especially when you're trans and when you're POC, you're denied complexity. 1.00

00:03:57.200 You're forced into a series of categories you never chose for yourself.

00:04:01.980 You're told that you have to emulate pre-existent fictions about you, live up to some cosplay of a character that you never even wrote.

00:04:11.760 And so there was, I think, a discrepancy between my inherent wonder and the ways in which the world reduced me to my body.

00:04:20.060 And so so much of the work that I do is in protest of that.

00:04:23.360 And actually being able to say, like, I get to be the fullest and freest version of myself.

00:04:28.320 Absolutely.

00:04:29.360 And I feel like even someone like yourself, even just having a public presence on social media is not only like an act of protest, like you said, but also it's so brave and courageous.

00:04:41.820 Like, I feel like social media has been such a powerful vehicle, especially in the last, like, five years for people to see other people that don't live the same life they do, that don't exist in the same bodies they do, that don't have the same life experience.

00:04:57.620 And I feel like someone like yourself is so important to, like, broadening your perspectives on things, especially when it comes to intersectionality.

00:05:04.520 I mean, honestly, it goes both ways, because I follow a lot of cisgender heterosexual influencers, and they teach me so much about their exotic cultural rituals.

00:05:13.380 I didn't understand.

00:05:16.160 And I feel like I want to say thank you, social media, for diversifying my feed and my life and helping me grow empathy.

00:05:22.840 Because I just feel like, you know, watching a lot of media about straight people growing up, I was like, do they know how to make decisions?

00:05:32.340 Like, why do they keep on thinking that love will, like, save them from loneliness, you know?

00:05:36.720 But then, like, through being able to, like, meet them on social media, I feel like I've grown and I've healed.

00:05:42.440 Yeah.

00:05:43.040 Yeah.

00:05:43.300 You're always growing.

00:05:44.040 You're always changing.

00:05:44.820 Always.

00:05:45.120 Always evolving.

00:05:45.760 It's important to be inclusive.

00:05:46.900 Yeah.

00:05:47.480 It's always important to include.

00:05:50.140 Straight people are, they're dying. 1.00

00:05:51.760 Right.

00:05:52.160 They're dying.

00:05:52.620 There's no more straight people anywhere. 0.99

00:05:54.140 It's really, I wasn't going to bring that up, but if you want to, if you want to broach that topic.

00:05:59.620 Yeah.

00:06:00.200 I can have it.

00:06:00.900 And I just feel like, you know, right now they're having to deal with a lot.

00:06:04.480 Like, they're having to, like, say different pronouns.

00:06:08.080 And they're having to, like, concede ground.

00:06:10.960 Oh, God.

00:06:11.460 I can only imagine how difficult that must be.

00:06:13.820 How taxing it must be.

00:06:14.700 Right.

00:06:15.080 What a stressful life.

00:06:16.120 To actually realize that you don't have to be miserable.

00:06:19.420 Oh, God.

00:06:19.920 And that your entire personality doesn't have to be, like, an altar to your misery and resentment.

00:06:25.380 And that heaven isn't just a place that you go to when you die.

00:06:28.400 It's possible when you're here now.

00:06:29.720 I can't even imagine.

00:06:30.780 Oh, God.

00:06:31.360 But realizing that, it's, like, insane in the membrane.

00:06:34.960 Like, it's a full system collapse.

00:06:36.660 Yeah.

00:06:37.420 They are truly, like, short-circuiting.

00:06:39.780 Yes.

00:06:39.960 They cannot handle.

00:06:40.780 Totally.

00:06:41.220 I have love and compassion.

00:06:42.700 Yeah.

00:06:43.120 Me, same.

00:06:44.000 Honestly.

00:06:44.540 The way I'm always, it's so funny. 0.99

00:06:47.060 It's, like, somewhat similar to when I talk about, like, the shit that women go through. 0.98

00:06:51.780 Not even, if you just factor just people who identify as women, not even factoring in race 0.99

00:06:55.960 or if you're fat or if you're able-bodied or anything like that, men are like, and what

00:06:59.760 about men?

00:07:01.020 What about you?

00:07:02.440 Do you need me to talk about you more?

00:07:04.360 Right.

00:07:04.960 You shouldn't want me to be talking about you anymore.

00:07:06.940 Right.

00:07:07.340 I'm too mean to them.

00:07:08.320 Right.

00:07:08.520 I think that, like, progress would be if I could do a what about trans people.

00:07:14.020 Right now, if I was to do that, people would just, like, laugh.

00:07:16.640 We're so seconded.

00:07:18.080 We're so absented from anyone's awareness that if I was to even enter the chat and be,

00:07:22.960 like, what about us?

00:07:24.580 People would be, like, do you even go here?

00:07:26.740 So, I still think that, like, my aspiration is to be able to what about.

00:07:31.080 Is to be able to do that.

00:07:31.680 The what about.

00:07:32.280 Yes.

00:07:32.780 Totally.

00:07:33.220 You're, like, I want.

00:07:34.040 That's the privilege I want.

00:07:34.280 When my mom asks me, who do you want to be when you grow up?

00:07:36.400 I want to be able to troll, you know?

00:07:40.040 Yeah.

00:07:40.400 Because we're in a place right now where we can't even troll.

00:07:43.180 We can't.

00:07:43.540 Because people aren't even there.

00:07:44.880 Yeah.

00:07:45.340 Like, it's just bonkers to me that I feel like I've been doing this public advocacy work

00:07:50.080 for over a decade.

00:07:51.040 Yeah.

00:07:51.480 And I still feel like I have to start at square one every time to say, hey, everyone, I exist.

00:07:58.220 Yeah.

00:07:58.500 I have a lot more interesting hot takes.

00:08:00.760 Like, I have so much more fun stuff to say.

00:08:03.000 Yeah.

00:08:03.400 But it's still seen as a revelation.

00:08:05.240 Yeah.

00:08:05.400 You have to start there every time.

00:08:06.740 And what's embarrassing is that, like, it's been that way, like, every century.

00:08:11.220 Yeah.

00:08:11.720 Like, gender nonconforming people have been here for thousands of years.

00:08:15.080 Literally.

00:08:15.480 Especially in indigenous culture.

00:08:16.800 Absolutely. 0.91

00:08:17.480 And so, the caucasity to say that non-binary people are new is just utter tomfoolery. 0.96

00:08:24.360 Actually, it's embarrassing, really.

00:08:25.840 It's really embarrassing because actually what is new is dividing billions of complex ethereal

00:08:31.120 souls into one of two categories.

00:08:33.160 Period.

00:08:33.320 Actually, indigenous people have been leading the way forever saying that there have always 0.93

00:08:36.860 been people outside of these gender binary systems.

00:08:39.300 And yet, I still have to, in every interview, I have to be like, I'm neither a boy nor a

00:08:44.400 girl.

00:08:45.040 And people will be like, whoa.

00:08:47.860 And I'm like, I have much, you know, I have much more interesting things to say about me.

00:08:52.140 Like, why do I keep on sleeping at 6 a.m.?

00:08:54.220 There's just so many more behaviors that I do that are questionable and erratic than deciding

00:08:59.240 to wear a skirt.

00:08:59.920 Absolutely.

00:09:01.120 There are much harder things to deal with in life, believe it or not.

00:09:06.000 Even so, like when I, once I did a video about, there was this trend going on where men were

00:09:11.800 saying things like, oh, you know, the best relationships are when you take a girl out 1.00

00:09:15.900 of her masculine era and put her in her feminine era. 0.90

00:09:18.340 Whatever that means, right?

00:09:20.120 I don't even know.

00:09:20.900 I guess that's their way of coming out of Swifties.

00:09:22.900 And I'm going to hold out.

00:09:24.300 I'm going to hurt Keel's undeniable.

00:09:26.360 I was wondering who bought all that latest album.

00:09:28.980 And now I know incels.

00:09:30.340 There you go.

00:09:31.000 Yes.

00:09:31.280 And so when I, when I was getting tagged in the videos, I was, when I made one, I was

00:09:35.960 saying like, this is just rebranded misogyny, like genuinely.

00:09:39.060 And I was like, because, um, first of all, like they're talking about energy.

00:09:42.660 I'm like, gender doesn't exist. 0.98

00:09:44.640 Like, it's not real.

00:09:45.520 It's like a man-made construction.

00:09:46.700 So you can't gender an intangible, like energy, for example.

00:09:50.300 I was about to like step up and spin around and sit down to respond to that, but I didn't

00:09:54.280 want to do that.

00:09:54.960 But I'm just saying that verbally so people know that I was enthusiastic about what you

00:09:58.580 just said.

00:10:00.700 And I, I, I said that I had mentioned that in my video and I was talking about how this

00:10:04.960 is the kind of like buried sinister misogyny where they're, they're, they're disguising it

00:10:09.840 as a way to like help you or to, to let you be like yourself, which is inherently smaller,

00:10:16.240 demure feminine, whatever they deem to be feminine.

00:10:19.540 And when we look at the history of marriage counseling in the United States, what would

00:10:23.480 happen is it sort of became very popular after World War II.

00:10:26.520 Couples would go in to meet an expert.

00:10:29.440 And what they would always say is, oh, it's because the woman isn't being feminine enough. 1.00

00:10:34.420 If she just learned how to love doing housework more, she could save the marriage.

00:10:39.800 If she learned how to care more about her appearance, she could save the marriage.

00:10:44.060 The onus is always put on women to revive the dead horse that is the gendered system. 1.00

00:10:50.080 And I think that's what makes me so sad.

00:10:52.280 Oftentimes with this turf phenomenon, trans exclusionary feminists. 1.00

00:10:56.800 I'll find a turf any day.

00:10:58.120 Oftentimes women are defending the enclosure. 1.00

00:11:00.880 They're actually been put into a confined space.

00:11:04.260 And they're like, no, no, no, this is my space.

00:11:06.120 But it's like, babe, you deserve the universe.

00:11:08.420 Yeah.

00:11:08.840 What makes you think?

00:11:09.600 There's more than just this space.

00:11:10.580 Hello.

00:11:10.960 Believe it or not.

00:11:11.600 Like to define womanhood just in the ways that men have defined it forever as a tool of

00:11:17.000 subordination is deeply concerning and upsetting.

00:11:20.060 Absolutely.

00:11:20.800 And I think that's why for me, what I was so excited to speak to you about and to be on this

00:11:24.360 podcast is the healing that needs to happen such that all genders can come together to 0.99

00:11:29.800 thrive outside of patriarchy.

00:11:32.000 Because that's my dream.

00:11:33.160 That's what I grew up with.

00:11:34.080 That's so much of what I do is because my mother had the feminist wherewithal to say no 1.00

00:11:40.360 to the world that men prescribed her to be, to pursue her own interests, her own ambitions.

00:11:45.360 That created the fodder, the fertile ground for me to be able to say, no, I'm going to live

00:11:49.820 my own life too.

00:11:50.720 I see everything I'm doing as a continuation of my foremothers and as feminism. 0.99

00:11:56.140 And I think what's deeply sad often is that trans people like me are seen as a violation

00:12:01.320 of that when in fact it's a continuation.

00:12:04.080 Absolutely.

00:12:04.800 A celebration, if you will.

00:12:06.200 Yeah.

00:12:06.460 And even when I, when I followed it up, because some women turfs were being very strange how 1.00

00:12:12.720 they, they sneak their way in, they sneak past security on my page sometimes.

00:12:15.980 Some women were telling me that I was, they were like, oh, this, this video means that 1.00

00:12:20.120 you don't want women to, to, to be feminine again, whatever that means. 0.67

00:12:25.300 And you don't like stay at home moms. 1.00

00:12:27.340 I'm like, how did you get from one?

00:12:28.800 Right.

00:12:29.160 I don't know how you got there, but I elaborated further.

00:12:32.800 I was like, this is the conversation y'all don't want to have with me because you, you 1.00

00:12:36.320 think, because I tell people to suck my wiener on the internet that I'm a stupid bitch. 1.00

00:12:39.440 But like, again, I iterated that gender is not real. 1.00

00:12:43.000 I said, there were so many cultures that did not adhere to a gender binary prior to being

00:12:46.560 colonized.

00:12:47.080 My own is one of them.

00:12:48.480 We did not have a gender binary prior to being colonized.

00:12:51.740 And before Christianity and Mormonism and Catholicism were brought to my people.

00:12:56.200 So before that, prior to that, we didn't adhere to anything like that.

00:12:59.760 And gender is a racial construct.

00:13:01.760 Period.

00:13:02.100 So what it means to be an Indian woman, a Samoan woman, a white woman, it's different

00:13:06.120 and culturally contingent.

00:13:07.520 Absolutely. 0.93

00:13:08.060 I grew up with strong, badass, hairy brown women. 1.00

00:13:12.040 And that wasn't a violation of their femininity. 0.71

00:13:14.700 Absolutely.

00:13:15.060 But oftentimes, I think when we're saying look like a woman or act like a woman, what

00:13:19.120 we're saying is look or act like a white woman. 1.00

00:13:21.120 Period.

00:13:21.580 And we're policing women of color into that. 1.00

00:13:23.720 Absolutely.

00:13:24.240 And that's why for me, like this idea of transness, we're building off of this legacy of actually

00:13:28.880 saying there is no one way to be a woman.

00:13:31.120 Absolutely.

00:13:31.660 Actually, there's your way to be a woman. 1.00

00:13:33.200 And I think people read that as erasure.

00:13:36.000 But actually, that's about entitlement.

00:13:38.120 Exactly.

00:13:38.400 If you feel like you can universalize your particular point of view, that's a problem.

00:13:43.100 Yeah.

00:13:43.740 When I'm saying that I want a world beyond the gender binary, I'm not saying you don't

00:13:46.740 get to be you.

00:13:47.740 Yeah.

00:13:48.060 Actually, you being you is totally fine.

00:13:49.880 There's nothing to do with me.

00:13:50.480 And it has been for thousands of years.

00:13:52.140 I get to be me.

00:13:53.120 Yeah.

00:13:53.560 And in fact, the more you you are, the more I I can be.

00:13:56.600 Yeah.

00:13:57.120 This zero sum competitive mentality.

00:13:58.880 We don't need that, babe.

00:13:59.860 Absolutely.

00:14:00.660 And it doesn't get anything done.

00:14:02.180 I when I made a video defending Dylan Mulvaney and her song, and they were talking about 0.99

00:14:06.620 like a bunch of turfs, like literally so many fucking turfs. 0.99

00:14:09.400 I explained to I'm like that this is that's not your experience with girlhood. 0.99

00:14:13.980 That's OK.

00:14:14.720 That's that's her experience.

00:14:16.220 That's not yours. 1.00

00:14:17.060 But at the same time, I'm like, it's starting to stink like fucking turf. 0.99

00:14:19.780 And it's pissing me off because some of you are saying you're fans of me. 1.00

00:14:22.940 Clearly, you're fucking not. 0.99

00:14:23.920 And that's where I said intersectionality is really starting to beat the shit out of 1.00

00:14:27.240 some of you because you think feminism just means cisgendered heterosexual white women. 0.98

00:14:31.580 But there are I said, even if my me myself, like I identify as a woman, I'm a cisgendered

00:14:36.040 heterosexual woman. 0.96

00:14:37.160 The experience I have with womanhood is completely different.

00:14:39.840 Thank you for sharing your truth with me.

00:14:41.240 You're welcome.

00:14:42.540 That took a lot.

00:14:43.380 That took a lot of bravery coming out to you in this conversation.

00:14:47.320 That's the most rebellious identity you can have.

00:14:49.580 So I just want to hold space and say so much.

00:14:52.700 Allyship is a process I'm learning.

00:14:54.620 Thank you so much.

00:14:55.320 I actively am listening and evolving and growing.

00:14:58.180 And if there's ever anything I can do besides sending love and light your way, let me know.

00:15:02.900 Yeah, I do need more help from you, actually.

00:15:04.620 I need you to actually pick up the slack around here.

00:15:06.680 I'm going to try my best.

00:15:08.960 I'm working overtime to become an active ally, not passive.

00:15:13.480 I can't just consume your content online.

00:15:15.120 I have to show up.

00:15:16.180 Yeah, you have to show up more, actually.

00:15:17.820 I need more from you.

00:15:19.360 Just, you know.

00:15:19.900 I'm going to take that feedback, and I'm going to be crying tonight into my pillow.

00:15:25.280 But I heard online that tears actually are really good for your skincare regimen, so.

00:15:30.140 I mean, if that's the case, that's probably why we have such perfect skin.

00:15:33.520 And I, even when I was, I was lighting some women up. 0.94

00:15:39.320 But I was telling them, too, that it was really pissing me off, because I was saying that you excluding trans women from this feminist, like, viewpoint, it doesn't, you don't get to cut the line to equality.

00:15:52.280 Like, that's not how it works.

00:15:53.360 Just because you cut them out of it doesn't mean you get there faster.

00:15:56.000 In fact, it slows us down even more.

00:15:58.340 So it's so important that you include all women, not just women that you deem to be women.

00:16:05.740 It can't be something that is approved by you personally.

00:16:08.860 And let's also accelerate.

00:16:09.840 Let's say women and non-binary people. 0.85

00:16:11.660 Absolutely.

00:16:11.940 Right, because I also feel like there's a way in which people still only understand patriarchy as it impacts women.

00:16:18.720 But actually, for me, patriarchy is the policing of all people into gender norms.

00:16:23.340 Absolutely.

00:16:24.040 So every single person is harmed by a patriarchal system that doesn't ask them, what's your vibe?

00:16:29.040 Who do you want to be?

00:16:29.700 What do you want to wear?

00:16:30.460 How do you want to show up in the world?

00:16:31.780 But instead assumes.

00:16:33.640 And so for what I understand feminism to mean is actually the creation of a world where gender has no stranglehold on people's possibility, 1.00

00:16:40.640 where people can be the fullest and ripest version of themselves without the fear of violence.

00:16:45.980 That's the bare minimum.

00:16:47.240 But then also be celebrated for that.

00:16:49.860 And now we're going to pivot to the part of the conversation where I'm actually vulnerable and not just snarky and deflecting.

00:16:54.680 I think that's one of my greatest griefs is I feel like so much of the work that I do is out of love, out of a genuine love.

00:17:03.040 Why would we continue to show up, to expose ourselves to so much vitriol if it wasn't love?

00:17:10.300 I would have said, there's a lot of other things I'd be doing.

00:17:12.060 Sorry, I'm deflecting.

00:17:13.020 There's a lot of other things I'd be doing.

00:17:14.440 Yeah.

00:17:14.680 But I think what's so sad is when people receive love is an attack.

00:17:18.080 Absolutely.

00:17:18.640 And I think that's the heart of everything we're experiencing right now.

00:17:21.240 Absolutely.

00:17:21.840 It's like this white fragility, this cis fragility, all of that. 1.00

00:17:24.760 It's like what a generous gift migration is.

00:17:28.400 Imagine what this country would be without immigrants. 1.00

00:17:31.080 I don't even want to think about it.

00:17:32.920 Like what a generous gift feminism is. 1.00

00:17:35.760 Absolutely.

00:17:36.120 And yet these things get framed as stripping away, as taking away.

00:17:39.320 What we are stripping away and taking away is like, it's like an exfoliation.

00:17:42.880 It's something that needed to go.

00:17:44.240 Yeah.

00:17:44.500 But it's ultimately for regeneration and for health.

00:17:46.980 Yeah.

00:17:47.380 And so that's why I think the reframe I try to always offer in my work is it's just that people don't think that they're worthy of love.

00:17:53.860 And one story I could say that someone's bigoted or prejudiced or ignorant.

00:17:57.680 But I think the deeper truth is that they don't feel worthy of love.

00:18:00.860 Yeah.

00:18:01.100 Because the version of love that we're actually advancing is one that says you don't have to hide.

00:18:06.640 Every single part of you gets to belong.

00:18:08.840 Absolutely.

00:18:09.180 But these systems have taught us that we have to compartmentalize or be shy or closet parts of ourselves.

00:18:13.980 The kind of love we're advancing is like, no, bring you.

00:18:16.440 I want to see you.

00:18:17.480 Yeah, fully, authentically.

00:18:18.220 And people don't know how to do that.

00:18:19.140 Absolutely.

00:18:19.940 And then when they see people like you or like Dylan existing and not just centered or anchored in grief or violence or anything like that.

00:18:30.340 It's in love.

00:18:31.280 It's in celebration.

00:18:32.260 It's in community.

00:18:33.520 And you see people like you and Dylan being happy and thriving and having friends and love and romance.

00:18:40.280 And when they see things like that, they get even more mad because they're like, I've been taught my entire life that I need to look and act and be a certain way in order to find love, success.

00:18:49.060 Whatever it may be.

00:18:50.280 And I don't have any of those things and I'm doing all the right things.

00:18:53.420 But these people are living completely outside of that or on the complete opposite end of it.

00:18:58.040 And they have all the things that I wish I had.

00:18:59.940 They're outsourcing all of their own shame onto us.

00:19:02.680 Absolutely.

00:19:03.220 That's all it is.

00:19:04.080 It's a production of its finest potato.

00:19:05.980 Just boop, boop, boop, boop. 1.00

00:19:07.200 And they mistake like commenting on my body.

00:19:09.920 My life is somehow going to offer them some salvation in their own.

00:19:13.720 And that's what the most tragic part is, is you're still going to die.

00:19:17.500 You know, unfortunately, unfortunately.

00:19:19.200 The one given truth that we all know is that we're going to die.

00:19:21.820 And are you going to look back on your life and be like, wow, I spent so much of my time in Drew's comment section.

00:19:27.080 What a noble, I'm so proud of you.

00:19:29.680 Time well spent.

00:19:30.060 You did it.

00:19:31.360 Wow.

00:19:31.840 It was worth it.

00:19:32.620 So that's why there's always a tell.

00:19:34.120 You're telling on yourself.

00:19:35.360 Absolutely.

00:19:35.720 You're telling on yourself that you don't think that your life is worth leisure, peace.

00:19:39.660 You don't think that your life is worth fun.

00:19:41.780 You're going to waste your precious moments on earth hating me when in fact it's just a proxy for hating yourself.

00:19:47.700 That's tragic. 1.00

00:19:48.840 Damn. 1.00

00:19:49.540 That's a read, bitch. 1.00

00:19:51.820 It was interesting because one time someone commented in my comment section, like, you and Drew both have diametrically opposed responses to haters. 0.99

00:19:59.240 And I was like, I don't know if that's true.

00:20:01.000 Like, I respond with compassion.

00:20:03.100 You respond with humor.

00:20:04.040 But I think your humor is still compassionate because why engage if you didn't believe in people's transformation?

00:20:10.620 That's the thing.

00:20:11.340 That's why I'm saying it's about a gift.

00:20:12.960 And the cultures that I'm a part of, being read is a generous offer.

00:20:17.420 Same.

00:20:18.020 Same of mine.

00:20:18.420 Because you're actually reading people to build them up.

00:20:21.080 Absolutely.

00:20:21.440 I want you to come back.

00:20:22.600 That's so funny you say that.

00:20:23.780 That's how someone's are, too.

00:20:25.180 I've said that before.

00:20:26.260 I even said that in my speech.

00:20:27.380 I'm like, they do be making fun of you.

00:20:29.600 That's, like, the whole point is to, like, kind of toughen you up a little bit.

00:20:32.320 But every time we do it, it's never in a sinister or evil way.

00:20:35.920 It's not a way to pick at your insecurities.

00:20:37.300 It's just for fun and to be silly and to just kind of grow your confidence as a whole.

00:20:42.820 Speaking of confidence, how did you develop the laughter that you have right now?

00:20:47.420 It's the most distilled version of freedom I've heard in a while.

00:20:50.380 Oh, that is such a sweet thing to say.

00:20:52.480 And you just pepper it around.

00:20:54.980 Hold on to that.

00:20:55.640 It's so delightful.

00:20:56.400 I'm like, either you're really good at evading your depression or you genuinely are happy.

00:21:02.840 And that's really exciting.

00:21:04.600 Yeah.

00:21:04.860 I feel like I even said my laugh is so distinctly Polynesian.

00:21:10.420 Like, that's what my laugh is.

00:21:11.640 So someone like we all laugh the same.

00:21:14.400 Like, it's never a laugh.

00:21:15.420 It's like a cackle.

00:21:16.300 It's more of like a hyena type pitch.

00:21:18.460 That's kind of how we all laugh.

00:21:20.080 Like when me, my mom and my sister.

00:21:21.820 It's not racism when she's saying it herself.

00:21:23.120 Hello, I'm someone.

00:21:24.400 It's OK.

00:21:24.860 But literally everyone that I like in my like immediate family and my extended family, we all laugh the same.

00:21:32.880 So like me, my mom and my sister all laugh the same, same pitch, same decibel.

00:21:37.160 Wow.

00:21:37.720 And then even like I have a cousin, his name's Josh, and he's, his laugh is so high pitched and like a cackle.

00:21:44.880 Like it's mine times a million.

00:21:46.640 So it's like so distinct and it's so boisterous.

00:21:50.040 And that's like been the soundtrack to my life growing up is laughter.

00:21:53.820 Like it's laughter like that.

00:21:55.000 So I was on a weed edible recently.

00:21:57.800 Period.

00:21:58.440 As one does.

00:21:59.640 As one does.

00:22:00.620 And my therapist is always yapping about finding my highest self.

00:22:04.420 And I think I found her.

00:22:06.720 And what I realized is that I couldn't speak.

00:22:09.800 I could just laugh.

00:22:11.100 And what if laughter is the ultimate highest truth in the world?

00:22:15.260 And I realized that for so long in my life, I've been intimately familiar with my pain, the ways I've been hurt, I've been discriminated against.

00:22:23.080 What feels new for me is I'm becoming familiar with my joy.

00:22:27.140 And laughter for me is that crystallized joy.

00:22:29.940 It's like even when the world feels impossible.

00:22:32.840 And these days it does.

00:22:34.380 There's so many times where I'm just like, is this real life?

00:22:37.540 Like it feels like homophobia has gotten a reboot as transphobia.

00:22:40.940 And we're in a dystopic action thriller film where trans people have been cast as villains. 0.80

00:22:46.180 And investors are funneling in hundreds of millions of dollars because it's getting a lot of clicks.

00:22:50.440 And so it feels like the characters people are making about us are even more real than my own reality.

00:22:55.160 And I feel scared a lot of the time.

00:22:57.480 But then I laugh.

00:22:58.860 And it just does something profound to me.

00:23:01.500 And I think that's why I've really loved doing stand-up now more in my career.

00:23:05.440 Is because the ability for us to laugh in the face of it is I think one of the most powerful things I've ever seen.

00:23:11.200 Totally.

00:23:11.660 For us to actually create that medicine of like even though things are awful and gruesome, we still have the ability to laugh.

00:23:17.960 Yeah.

00:23:18.520 Especially when it comes to people like yourself who are so like targeted by the like whether it's media or just the country.

00:23:27.560 Are you talking about the fact that I'm a cancer sign?

00:23:29.320 Yeah, obviously.

00:23:30.360 Thank you.

00:23:30.860 A water sign specifically.

00:23:33.620 It's hard out here for us.

00:23:35.220 It is.

00:23:35.440 There's cancel culture and there's cancer culture.

00:23:37.420 We should talk about it.

00:23:38.960 And they both need to be studied.

00:23:40.720 Hello.

00:23:41.360 Deeply.

00:23:41.920 Yes. 0.90

00:23:42.300 I think even to your point about laughter too is I feel like that's another reason why a lot of people gravitated towards my content regardless of like obviously I make silly jokes and all that shit. 0.95

00:23:53.620 But I've said before when especially when I was initially growing, I had so many men make fucking think pieces about me like she's actually really mean. 0.94

00:24:03.640 You're right. 0.91

00:24:04.260 And I have told people you're right.

00:24:05.600 I am mean.

00:24:06.180 I like to think myself as like Robin Hood though.

00:24:07.960 Like I'm, yeah, I'm being mean, but I'm giving back to the poor.

00:24:10.640 So maybe it's, um, PEMDOS cancels out.

00:24:13.060 But also I, I've always said like my content's not for you.

00:24:16.960 Like my content's in spite of you.

00:24:18.800 Honestly, it's honestly at your expense.

00:24:20.640 Like that's what my content is not for you.

00:24:22.500 It's for everybody else.

00:24:23.840 For once, like I've said before, like my platform's like the one table they don't have a seat at.

00:24:27.940 And that's why they're so fucking mad at me all the time because this is the one time you're not being prioritized.

00:24:32.460 Like you're not prioritized in my space. 0.88

00:24:34.040 You're not prioritized on my show.

00:24:35.580 You're not prioritized on any platform I have.

00:24:37.360 I'm prioritizing everybody else who has never been prioritized and everyone who follows me and is tired of having to take the high road.

00:24:45.400 Like I've even said, I've passed like, you know, making people laugh and making silly jokes.

00:24:50.780 I validate them in their anger, like in their, in their frustration and them being fed up.

00:24:56.360 I've, I've validated that.

00:24:57.600 I've told them like, if you want to be mad, if you want to be angry, if you want to laugh at them and make fun of them back, you absolutely should.

00:25:03.180 You can, you have every right to, in fact, I do.

00:25:06.240 And it's worked out.

00:25:07.580 So it works, it works out pretty well, actually.

00:25:09.500 And I feel like that kind of messaging and that kind of like platform that I've built has given people more courage to be, like you said, to laugh in the face of awfulness.

00:25:20.400 Like, cause vitriol is awful and it is.

00:25:22.180 And you and I both receive it.

00:25:24.080 I'm sure you get way more than I do, but I get a whole bunch.

00:25:27.100 It's definitely not a contest I want to win.

00:25:28.640 Not at all.

00:25:29.540 Not at all.

00:25:29.920 If this was like America's Next Top Model, like season 48, I'm down to compete.

00:25:33.660 But when it comes to the severity of our death threats.

00:25:37.080 Right.

00:25:37.320 For real.

00:25:38.180 Yeah.

00:25:38.500 Even some people I've met, they're like, how do you do it?

00:25:40.940 I'm like, I don't know.

00:25:42.600 I just think about everyone else who gets worse death threats.

00:25:45.040 And then I'm like, sometimes I find my people.

00:25:48.580 We build community.

00:25:49.800 That's what we do.

00:25:50.600 As you were speaking, though, I was thinking also about false equivalencies, right?

00:25:54.400 Calling you mean versus an anti-abortion law.

00:25:58.480 You know, like what power do you have in understructural sexism to fundamentally shift the quality of life for men in this country, let alone this world?

00:26:10.660 I wish I had.

00:26:11.520 I wish I had more.

00:26:12.440 Right.

00:26:12.680 And so notice the disproportionate attention.

00:26:15.460 Yeah.

00:26:15.720 When these kind of alarmist narratives of women are erasing that when actual rights are being eroded. 1.00

00:26:24.480 Yeah.

00:26:24.740 Yeah.

00:26:25.180 And so what happens is that people's discomfort is taken as equivalent to structural discrimination.

00:26:31.500 Yeah.

00:26:32.060 Yeah.

00:26:32.600 And I think that's a really dangerous moment we're in right now.

00:26:34.840 Totally.

00:26:35.540 Where we maybe shouldn't have said all feelings were valid.

00:26:39.460 Yeah.

00:26:39.560 Because now.

00:26:40.660 Should have put a little asterisk next to that.

00:26:41.920 People are like, my bigotry is valid.

00:26:44.380 Yeah.

00:26:44.940 I think that what we've seen with like the revamping of diversity and inclusion is now people are saying, if you're a harasser, you're equal too.

00:26:52.400 Yeah.

00:26:53.020 You know?

00:26:53.400 What about me?

00:26:54.340 Yes.

00:26:54.800 It's literally like, what about me?

00:26:56.560 We actually have like lost a real power analysis, right?

00:27:00.000 And so I just noticed that people fixate more on like a social media personality than like a politician.

00:27:08.420 Yeah.

00:27:08.760 And when they think about like spheres of influence, it's like this narratives that get created in the manosphere about women and trans people ruining culture.

00:27:17.940 What's actually ruining Western civilization is climate change.

00:27:22.600 Like you're not going to have a physical land.

00:27:25.400 Yeah.

00:27:25.560 It's really not going to matter.

00:27:26.400 Social media's not going to mean anything when the world burns up.

00:27:28.640 And so that's why I try to really say like your passion is so valid.

00:27:33.420 It's just misdirected.

00:27:34.580 Absolutely.

00:27:35.100 All of the anger and vengefulness that you're experiencing towards feminist women and trans people.

00:27:41.100 Yeah.

00:27:41.360 That's so beautiful, babe.

00:27:42.640 Let's use it to actually create the society that you want.

00:27:46.040 Let's channel it and point it somewhere else.

00:27:46.800 Redirect it over.

00:27:47.720 Yeah.

00:27:47.980 So I think the big realization I've had in my life is that all the people who are so angry at me are actually grieving from the same gender system I am.

00:27:55.140 Absolutely.

00:27:55.840 But it's so much easier to pinpoint it on me to say, oh, these nasty men in dresses, they're making me uncomfortable than it is to do the deeper, more introspective work to actually make this entire gender system.

00:28:06.720 Absolutely. 0.94

00:28:07.160 It's rotten at its core.

00:28:08.620 Yeah.

00:28:08.920 And so for me, my mercy practice, my compassion practice often gets dismissed as not having teeth or not actually clapping back.

00:28:17.680 It is a clap back.

00:28:18.800 I'm hugging them and clapping them on the back and saying, isn't it sweet?

00:28:21.860 Isn't it cute that you think you're going to get salvation through making a burner account on social media and commenting on my page?

00:28:29.000 That's not what salvation looks like.

00:28:31.000 What salvation looks like is you need me and I need you.

00:28:33.360 And let's actually work towards creating the material conditions that create a better world.

00:28:36.780 Absolutely.

00:28:37.180 And even when it comes to teeth, too, I got nothing but teeth on social media.

00:28:42.400 And even then, I get the reverse, which is, why don't you try more compassion?

00:28:46.300 Why don't you try more?

00:28:47.260 Which is like the goalposts are always moving, aren't they?

00:28:49.580 Like, I'm just never doing enough or never doing it right instead of, like you said, you just introspectively looking and realizing that you're also contributing and also suffering at the hands of the same system that I'm trying to uproot.

00:29:00.840 The greatest irony of it all is that the patriarchy, misogyny, any facet of bigotry harms all of us, including transphobia.

00:29:08.840 Like, transphobia harms cis women, too, which is another thing I don't understand about TERFs.

00:29:13.500 That's why I said, like, you think cutting them out is going to give you rights faster?

00:29:17.680 You think it's going to equal the playing field?

00:29:19.460 Or you think it's going to save you from suffering from transphobia?

00:29:22.800 Even myself, people hurl vitriolic, transphobic things at me all the time.

00:29:27.180 Because I'm a tall woman, I'm a brown woman, I'm like, there's all these different facets of my intersectionality that are playing a role into them, masculinizing me.

00:29:35.560 But that's another reason why I'm like, you clearly are not advanced enough.

00:29:39.500 Like, you're clearly, you haven't been educated enough.

00:29:41.780 It's an ignorance, whether it's on purpose or subconscious.

00:29:44.780 Either way, not my problem.

00:29:46.440 Okay, so your hot take in this conversation is heterosexuality.

00:29:49.560 My most controversial hot take is compassion.

00:29:53.280 And we're both coming in with preconceived notions.

00:29:58.220 So I'm going to push a little bit on compassion.

00:30:00.920 Sure.

00:30:01.620 So oftentimes, people think that compassion is about doing the higher road, like sacrificing my ability to feel rage.

00:30:12.460 But if I'm going to be very honest with you, I had my seasons of rage.

00:30:16.200 Yeah.

00:30:16.440 A lot of the early work I was making in my career was so about vitriol and resentment and clapping back.

00:30:24.080 And then I started to realize, this is staying in my body.

00:30:27.660 Actually, if I'm out here saying trans life is sacred, why do I want to kill myself?

00:30:32.020 If I'm out here saying trans life is beautiful, why am I still depressed?

00:30:36.660 My path towards compassion didn't actually come from forgiveness of the other.

00:30:41.620 It came from wanting to create a sanctuary in me.

00:30:44.300 How do I liberate myself from resentment?

00:30:47.500 Absolutely.

00:30:47.780 How do I liberate myself from even having any of the indentations of their oppression into me?

00:30:53.440 And so what I started to say is, I want to be a sanctuary for the world that I'm seeking externally, internally.

00:30:58.620 So my rootedness and compassion is, I'm going to be a nonstickable pan.

00:31:03.220 Everything that you say to me is just a reflection of what you think about yourself, sending you love and light.

00:31:07.520 And so I feel like there's different traditions of compassion.

00:31:11.220 Absolutely.

00:31:11.580 And I think the kind of compassion that I'm sort of trying to get to is one that actually refuses this idea of self-sacrifice.

00:31:18.380 Yeah.

00:31:18.720 Because I grew up with brown women who were really good at that. 1.00

00:31:21.280 Yeah.

00:31:21.740 Who really didn't serve anyone else or didn't eat food until they served everyone else.

00:31:26.580 Yeah.

00:31:26.920 Who glorified staying up all night cooking for other people, dying at the hands of men who weren't really there for them.

00:31:34.080 And that was like, I think, one of the first kind of models of femininity I had.

00:31:37.600 So I templated that myself.

00:31:38.840 Like, okay, if I want to express my femininity, I have to be self-sacrificial.

00:31:42.140 Then I had to rewire that.

00:31:43.720 That didn't work out.

00:31:44.680 And I have no space for self-sacrifice.

00:31:46.980 Totally.

00:31:47.200 But I think the instantaneous conflation of compassion with self-sacrifice is something we need to tease apart.

00:31:52.440 Yeah.

00:31:52.760 And I want us to be able to hold forms of compassion that are actually deeply self-loving.

00:31:56.620 Absolutely.

00:31:57.280 And what I found for me, my relationship to rage is I want to experience rage, but I want to redirect that rage in the places where it actually matters.

00:32:05.560 Absolutely.

00:32:06.140 Because I think that the scale and the volume of what I'm up against is like every single day I'm in public, I'm being harassed.

00:32:13.300 Every single place that I go, I don't feel safe.

00:32:15.840 I've never been in a safe that I feel physically safe.

00:32:18.220 I have to contend with hundreds, if not thousands of people every single day, in-person escalations against my safety.

00:32:26.800 If I was to clap back at every single one of those people, I could not.

00:32:31.840 You would get nothing done.

00:32:33.540 No.

00:32:33.980 You're doing that all day.

00:32:34.660 And so I started to do something different.

00:32:36.560 I started to actually become.

00:32:38.220 So now if someone's taking a photo of me that might can sound on a subway, I'll smile and I say, I love you.

00:32:43.820 See what happens.

00:32:44.840 Mm-hmm.

00:32:45.340 So now if someone's spitting me on the street, I'll go up to them and say, who hurt you?

00:32:49.240 Mm-hmm.

00:32:49.480 See what happens.

00:32:50.740 And what I found is that those reactions actually have the same impact that I thought my retaliation would.

00:32:56.200 They make people actually have to reconsider, why am I doing this?

00:32:59.360 Yeah.

00:32:59.980 And that's, I don't believe everyone, I'm not interested in proselytizing.

00:33:03.440 I don't believe everyone should follow this path.

00:33:05.020 Mm-hmm.

00:33:05.600 You're able to do what you want to do.

00:33:06.940 That's fine.

00:33:07.340 In the same way with gender, what you're doing over there has no bearing on me.

00:33:10.020 Yeah.

00:33:10.300 But I think that what I struggle with is that oftentimes people think it's idiosyncratic or ridiculous that someone like me could default into compassion.

00:33:18.400 Mm-hmm.

00:33:18.640 And I'm actually like, there's another way to hack at this.

00:33:21.200 Yeah.

00:33:21.500 There's another way to think about why we're doing it, if that makes sense.

00:33:23.920 Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:24.720 And it's also, like you said, it's prioritizing you in that sense because it's kind of, it's in the same vein as for me with my content is how I, me choosing to laugh at it.

00:33:37.900 Like people say the most awful shit about me all the time and I've stitched videos of men literally talking only about me and saying awful things about me and then I laugh about it and move on with my life. 0.98

00:33:47.500 Alchemize it out of your body. 1.00

00:33:48.700 Absolutely.

00:33:49.300 And a lot of times people ask me, how do I do that?

00:33:51.360 And I have told them before, like my validation does not come from men.

00:33:54.600 It doesn't come from literally anyone but me.

00:33:56.420 So including like any, even men that I love in my own life, like that it has nothing to do with them.

00:34:00.700 It only has to do with me.

00:34:02.200 Right.

00:34:02.300 So if I draw all of my power and courage and strength and confidence from myself and myself alone, anything that anybody says to me doesn't mean anything to me, doesn't hurt me, doesn't harm me.

00:34:12.500 If anything, it says more about them than it does about me.

00:34:15.240 Okay.

00:34:15.600 We're getting real on this podcast.

00:34:16.700 Yes.

00:34:17.320 I did not.

00:34:18.240 I just came off a plane for therapy.

00:34:20.760 Okay.

00:34:21.720 I have said some version of what you've said so many times in my life and I see myself so much in what you're saying right now.

00:34:29.540 And that's a profoundly lonely life.

00:34:31.780 Yeah.

00:34:32.120 Because everyone expects you to be the resilient one, the confident one, the one who's able to clap back.

00:34:38.060 It does get that way.

00:34:38.080 It do be that way sometimes.

00:34:39.160 The one that's always witty, inspirational, able to immediately alchemize.

00:34:42.760 But what happens when it actually sticks with you?

00:34:44.880 And you're like, actually, that really did hurt.

00:34:47.460 Because we're human.

00:34:48.640 We're not invincible.

00:34:49.660 Absolutely.

00:34:49.980 And so what I've had to actually realize is I do need validation from other people, not strangers on the internet.

00:34:56.240 Period.

00:34:56.660 From people I love and I'm in community with.

00:34:59.000 Absolutely.

00:34:59.400 Right?

00:35:00.120 And I want to be someone like that for you.

00:35:02.280 Yeah.

00:35:02.640 Because there are people in the world who I believe are out here championing the gospel of self-love and also need to be part of a collective of people doing that.

00:35:12.980 Absolutely.

00:35:13.620 You know, like we need to be able to have other people that we can go to when we are feeling down or when we do need support.

00:35:18.420 Totally.

00:35:19.080 And people have asked me before, like, what hate does get to you?

00:35:22.000 Right.

00:35:22.140 And I was like, the only hate that does get to me is when it comes from people within communities that I feel so drawn to protect.

00:35:28.840 And a lot of times it's not even, sometimes it is blatant hate, but sometimes it's more of those call-ins.

00:35:35.120 Right.

00:35:35.260 And those are the things that do stick with me because they matter to me.

00:35:38.200 And that's why in those moments they do really bother me and they do stick with me.

00:35:43.040 And that's why, first of all, I'm in therapy.

00:35:44.580 But second of all, I do have a very strong community around me.

00:35:47.720 Yes.

00:35:47.780 And that's why I've said before, like, my confidence and my self-validation doesn't come from men.

00:35:53.080 Yes.

00:35:53.340 It comes from me and it comes from the only people I care about in my circles.

00:35:57.620 Yes, yes, yes.

00:35:57.860 And I even said this on my last episode that women and non-binary people are so, so good at community.

00:36:06.360 Yes, yes.

00:36:06.860 Like, building community, fostering community.

00:36:08.920 It truly is.

00:36:09.800 And it's like, it's to build something so warm and loving and safe.

00:36:14.760 Like, they are, they have that in spades.

00:36:16.580 Yes.

00:36:16.720 And I feel like that's what I've done is built community, even outside of my, outside of my immediate family and my loved ones.

00:36:24.460 I've built a really, a really, really strong community of people online who it's like enveloping you in a really warm hug.

00:36:31.720 And I feel like that's why a lot of people feel really safe whenever they come to see me in live shows or whatever, because my fan base is just like me.

00:36:39.360 They feel the same way.

00:36:40.680 And something, a slight flex, I always say, is a lot of my fans, none of my fans look the same.

00:36:44.740 All of my fans look very different.

00:36:46.580 I come from very different walks of life, different gender identities, sexual identities, whatever it may be.

00:36:51.300 And so I feel like...

00:36:52.480 I'm sure at this point, though, your laugh is so influential that maybe when they're laughing in the crowd, you're like, am I laughing at myself?

00:36:58.100 Yeah, literally.

00:36:59.600 I'm like, that sounds familiar.

00:37:01.480 Like, I haven't branded my laugh yet.

00:37:04.020 TM, by the way.

00:37:05.560 TM.

00:37:06.140 Every time I laugh, there's a TM there.

00:37:08.440 As you're speaking, you made me think of something.

00:37:10.540 I grew up in a small town in Texas.

00:37:13.240 I just thought it would be a cute exercise in surviving.

00:37:17.660 And so a lot of my best friends were Christian, evangelical, white conservatives.

00:37:23.520 And very odd dynamics, but we're still tight, which is interesting.

00:37:30.120 And so one of my best friends growing up, when I turned 18, would drive me to the local gay bar every single Friday.

00:37:36.740 And he would just kind of stand there awkwardly in the corner as I would stand awkwardly in another corner.

00:37:41.820 And I love this guy so much.

00:37:43.360 And we stayed friends for a long time.

00:37:44.980 And recently, I sometimes bring different friends with me when I'm on tour.

00:37:48.220 And I brought him on my tour in Europe.

00:37:50.960 And then we were sort of debriefing after my show.

00:37:53.440 And he was like, you travel in a fundamentally different way than me.

00:37:56.160 And I said, what do you mean?

00:37:56.800 He said, when I travel, I have to like Google, what are the things I should see?

00:38:01.120 When you travel, you meet people, and you immerse yourself in community.

00:38:05.620 And then you find the places that they're going.

00:38:07.960 And then I had to sit back and be like, oh, I have a privilege that you don't.

00:38:13.840 Which is that every single place that I am in the world, because I'm trans, I meet trans people who it's like, that's my sibling.

00:38:22.800 I don't need to know anything about who they are, what they've been through.

00:38:26.020 We have this shared, deep experience.

00:38:28.000 Absolutely.

00:38:28.420 They have my back.

00:38:29.500 And that's my favorite part about touring.

00:38:30.920 I've toured in over 40 countries.

00:38:32.280 And I go to places, people are like, is that safe?

00:38:34.020 I'm like, yes, because there are trans people there keeping me safe.

00:38:37.000 Absolutely.

00:38:37.320 Picking me up at the airport, telling me, we go here, we meet here, we don't do this.

00:38:41.200 And immediately, everywhere that I am, I'm able to feel like at a dinner table, I've known these people my entire life.

00:38:47.060 I love it.

00:38:47.580 And I'm like, this is what they're hunting.

00:38:50.080 Yeah.

00:38:50.400 Yeah.

00:38:50.820 Right?

00:38:51.100 And one story I could say, it's because of what I look like, it's because of my pronouns, it's not that.

00:38:56.700 What they're hunting is a type of envy that they don't think that they're worth that kind of love connection and community.

00:39:03.120 Because they've been told as a child, you have to compartmentalize yourself, you have to hide and seek within yourself.

00:39:09.840 Totally.

00:39:10.500 And then you'll be left.

00:39:12.440 But what we're advancing is a version of love that's like, no, no, no, no, all of you are none of you.

00:39:17.240 And I think that's really destabilizing and scary.

00:39:19.260 Yeah.

00:39:19.540 And so that's why I think I've had to really move the paradigm that I'm operating in the world.

00:39:23.780 In the past, I was so fluent in the ways in which I lacked power.

00:39:27.480 And now I'm so deeply aware and that I have what I've been seeking my entire life.

00:39:33.260 Absolutely.

00:39:33.580 It's just that I have people in the way of things like safety that are important.

00:39:37.620 But the things that I need, the kind of like community and love, it's there.

00:39:41.960 Yeah, it absolutely is.

00:39:43.300 Especially when someone like yourself is so convicted in who you are and you walk in it, you live it every single day.

00:39:52.000 And that's probably another thing they're extremely envious of is knowing exactly who you are.

00:39:56.960 That's like probably one of the scariest things they see is someone walking, living and being their truth.

00:40:03.460 It's just who they are.

00:40:04.560 They have very strange combustible reactions to it.

00:40:06.680 They really do.

00:40:08.180 I spoke about this in my CAPE speech, but James Baldwin is, I think, one of the most influential thinkers for all the work I do.

00:40:14.360 He says people go through great lengths to avoid an honest mirror.

00:40:17.940 And I really notice how people are so afraid of looking at their own reflection.

00:40:24.580 Absolutely.

00:40:24.820 They will do whatever they can, pass hundreds of pieces of laws, completely lie about who they are, just so they don't have to contend with what they see in the mirror.

00:40:35.280 Absolutely.

00:40:35.600 But the difficulty of the life that I had made it so that I had to because I wasn't going to get validation for my family, wasn't going to get validation for my culture and my community, wasn't going to get validation anywhere else.

00:40:46.560 So I had to look in the mirror and actually say, who do I want to become?

00:40:50.620 Yeah.

00:40:51.180 And I made it my life's goal to become myself, which I think is the greatest romance in the world, actually.

00:40:56.780 Absolutely.

00:40:57.060 I wish there were pop songs about that, like spending deliberate time with yourself to be like, what do I actually like?

00:41:04.340 What do I actually want to wear?

00:41:05.940 Not what other people want me to be.

00:41:07.400 Who do I actually want to be?

00:41:08.440 And that was some of the most silent and spectacular work I've ever done.

00:41:11.620 But now that I'm, I don't know if you're ever on the other side, but I think now that I'm further along in that, I notice that I now perceive people's discomfort with me, not about my gender.

00:41:21.140 I don't even use the word gender really as much anymore.

00:41:24.020 It's about my spirit.

00:41:25.060 And I think that move is really important.

00:41:27.400 Absolutely.

00:41:27.960 Because when I'm saying it's about my spirit, it's about my energy, then it opens up a larger playing field here.

00:41:33.100 This is not just about trans people being persecuted by cis people.

00:41:36.580 This is about those of us who are seeking our truth and living a life that's based in truth, being persecuted by people who are living a false self or a lie.

00:41:45.100 And once we element, once we escalate to the stakes of that, we have no choice but to have connection with each other.

00:41:50.780 Absolutely.

00:41:51.900 And it's also, it's so transparent, isn't it?

00:41:55.440 When people, when you come across people and you meet them and you can tell immediately if they, like you said, they're afraid of your spirit.

00:42:03.100 Like they see it so clearly and it intimidates them.

00:42:05.800 And a lot of people react differently in those situations.

00:42:08.340 Sometimes they react violently with anger.

00:42:10.520 Sometimes they retract.

00:42:12.020 Sometimes they celebrate it.

00:42:14.140 Sometimes they want to stay close to it, right?

00:42:16.760 Stay close to the fire.

00:42:18.400 Even in my book that I wrote, I wrote a dedication at the end and there was a part I wrote about my boyfriend.

00:42:24.300 And I talked about how I, right before I started dating him, I kind of, I had genuinely made peace with being alone.

00:42:30.520 Because I told myself, if I, if I live a life by myself, like just with no partner, because I'm never truly alone, am I?

00:42:39.140 But like I'm, I just without a partner, I'm okay.

00:42:42.240 Because I have nothing but love and community and family and warmth and friendship and kinship just within my own life, just as it is right now.

00:42:50.880 And I don't need any more than that.

00:42:52.720 To have more would be a privilege.

00:42:54.580 But what I do have now is also a privilege.

00:42:56.700 So I'm, I'm okay either way.

00:42:58.440 And literally three months later, I started dating my boyfriend, who's my soulmate.

00:43:01.660 He got me.

00:43:02.720 But I'm in love with a man.

00:43:03.940 Bad for my brand.

00:43:04.660 Anyways.

00:43:05.440 So when I wrote my dedication, and I even had told my boyfriend, like, I felt like he truly saw me.

00:43:10.940 Right.

00:43:11.340 For the very first time.

00:43:12.360 And like genuinely really saw me for who I was.

00:43:15.360 And saw that light within me.

00:43:18.240 And instead of running away, like basked in it.

00:43:21.000 Like felt warm.

00:43:22.500 You know what I mean?

00:43:23.120 I needed to hear that.

00:43:24.120 Thank you.

00:43:24.680 Yeah, you're welcome.

00:43:25.280 I think one thing that I'm still healing is believing that I can be loved in that way.

00:43:32.500 Yeah.

00:43:33.460 Because I think that so much of the way that I understand romantic love has been through violence.

00:43:41.220 And I think I'm still trying to heal the part of me that's like, no, there's gonna, I'm gonna have to change the way that I am.

00:43:47.740 Yeah.

00:43:48.160 My life is too hectic.

00:43:49.660 I have too much going on.

00:43:50.800 I'm too loud.

00:43:53.220 Someone will be intimate.

00:43:54.320 What?

00:43:55.940 It's divine filtration.

00:43:57.420 Yeah.

00:43:57.740 And I know that intellectually.

00:43:59.760 Yeah.

00:43:59.920 But I don't know if I know if I believe it in my body.

00:44:01.960 Yeah.

00:44:02.460 But like seeing people like you who are actually people who are embodying the kind of might that I want to have is so helpful for me.

00:44:10.000 Oh, that's so sweet.

00:44:10.620 And I think that's what you said about sometimes when you meet people who are in their higher consciousness, you actually feel magnetized and pulled.

00:44:17.420 Yeah.

00:44:17.680 That's a story that I didn't know because I think growing up as I did, I was always repelled, pushed away.

00:44:22.160 But then when I finally started meeting my own people, there were people who it's like, oh, you've healed a part of me that I haven't healed yet.

00:44:29.560 Yeah.

00:44:29.980 And instead of being afraid of that, I'm drawn to it.

00:44:32.080 Yeah.

00:44:32.240 How did you do that?

00:44:33.260 Yeah.

00:44:33.560 Teach me more.

00:44:34.560 Yeah.

00:44:34.880 Like, what if we could rewire ourselves to be like, oh, I'm noticing envy.

00:44:38.960 I'm noticing jealousy.

00:44:40.740 That's a really special experience.

00:44:42.220 There's a part of me that I still need to heal.

00:44:43.940 Totally.

00:44:44.120 Maybe I can witness that how someone else did that.

00:44:46.540 Right.

00:44:46.760 Absolutely.

00:44:47.040 And I think it's important for those of us who are often seen as healed TM to be able to say, here are the parts of me I'm still healing.

00:44:54.380 And I need to be in relation and in community and witnessing other people who have run marathons around my limiting belief systems.

00:45:01.620 Yeah, I think, I mean, even so, like when I, I've had that like energy pull too before where I felt like I need, I want to be around this person more.

00:45:10.540 Like, I feel like they, there's someone, they have something that I wish I had, whether it's like an energy or like a humor or intellect, whatever it may be.

00:45:20.960 I feel really drawn to people who are more evolved than me in whatever capacity it might be because I feel like it inspires me and it motivates me.

00:45:30.640 It makes me feel like we're all kind of moving in the same direction.

00:45:33.740 We're all aspiring to something greater.

00:45:35.080 So before this conversation, I was trying to convince Drew to make her debut as a standup comedian.

00:45:40.040 And as someone who is more evolved in this space, I'm here to say right now, your unique constellation of trauma makes you an eligible candidate.

00:45:49.260 Period.

00:45:50.260 For the coup.

00:45:50.760 TM.

00:45:51.280 Yes, for the coup that we're trying to have in comedy right now.

00:45:53.740 I just genuinely believe that women of color are the funniest people on earth.

00:46:00.600 Period.

00:46:01.120 I grew up literally cackling, to use your word, around women of color making fun of men. 1.00

00:46:08.160 Period.

00:46:08.600 That's my ground zero of where my comedy began.

00:46:12.840 Absolutely.

00:46:13.740 Like it's, you're trying to, you can do things with funny that you can't with sad.

00:46:17.720 Yeah.

00:46:18.160 That actually, it gives you a way to show up in the world, right?

00:46:21.860 Absolutely.

00:46:22.000 And I see that tenor of humor in you so much.

00:46:24.420 Thank you.

00:46:25.160 And it's actually what the world needs.

00:46:26.600 Because what I found is very different about comedy is that people are so, you can, you can sort of, it's like kind of like the peanut butter and the pill kind of situation.

00:46:36.100 Yeah.

00:46:36.320 When you frame it as entertainment, you can actually make people shift their minds.

00:46:41.900 And so I think for a long time, for a long time, I was coming on podcasts like this and debunking lies about trans people.

00:46:49.520 Yeah.

00:46:49.620 Okay.

00:46:49.780 So there's all this misinformation.

00:46:51.480 Let me show you about what's correct.

00:46:53.180 And of course that work is really important.

00:46:54.800 But I think we've reached a point in our culture, we can all agree.

00:46:57.580 Yeah.

00:46:57.880 Where people are not changing their minds based off of truth or empirical data.

00:47:00.800 Exactly.

00:47:01.120 Which is very scary.

00:47:02.580 Logic and reason is out there.

00:47:03.320 That's not very good.

00:47:04.100 It's not present.

00:47:04.780 We're not in the era of logic.

00:47:06.460 No, not at all.

00:47:06.860 We're actually.

00:47:07.900 We've been far away from her for a while.

00:47:09.420 Yes.

00:47:09.780 Yeah.

00:47:10.100 So we have to actually have a different way to shift people.

00:47:13.080 Totally.

00:47:13.480 And what I found is that humor actually does that work.

00:47:16.280 Because then for a second, people can actually be like, wait, I thought a look was absurd because what do they look like?

00:47:21.540 That actually what's truly absurd is that I care about what they look like.

00:47:25.260 You know, it's just like kind of jumps.

00:47:27.660 Yeah.

00:47:28.520 Yeah.

00:47:28.800 So actually what I for a long time felt like is that someone like me didn't get to deserve levity.

00:47:34.780 Because there was so much serious injustice people like me were facing.

00:47:38.500 Yeah.

00:47:38.700 To be an advocate meant I had to speak with conviction and power.

00:47:43.720 And obviously I can do that.

00:47:44.900 If Dua Lipa can go from being like an ambassador of human rights to being one of the best choreographed dancers on the stage, I can have versatility as well.

00:47:52.040 Yeah.

00:47:52.500 Obviously. 0.98

00:47:52.920 I can be in a place where I can give like an amazing public intellectual lecture and I can make dick jokes on stage. 0.98

00:47:59.380 Hello. 0.98

00:48:00.160 Period.

00:48:00.560 But I didn't believe that for a while.

00:48:02.520 Yeah.

00:48:02.780 Because I think I still had this idea of like severity and levity being oppositional.

00:48:08.340 Yeah.

00:48:08.600 But now I'm actually like, no, these things are co-producing.

00:48:12.500 Absolutely.

00:48:12.980 And that actually through comedy I can address some of the most serious issues.

00:48:16.680 And that maybe we might need silly solutions to serious problems.

00:48:20.060 Yeah. 0.72

00:48:20.520 And so one of the silly solutions I think we need is your stand-up hour.

00:48:24.320 I think could heal the world.

00:48:26.140 I think so.

00:48:28.200 I'm with you.

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00:49:29.240 You know, and you know, it's really funny because I feel like you and I started on opposite ends and we're moving towards the middle. 0.94

00:49:36.180 So, like, I was all dick jokes.

00:49:38.000 You know, and I'm moving towards more serious stuff. 0.83

00:49:41.220 That's why you're doing it to comedy.

00:49:43.240 I wrote a book.

00:49:43.960 So, that's me, like, pivoting more into a more intellectual brand.

00:49:47.880 But it's the same kind of idea in my head, which is I've told people before, even when I elaborate a little bit further on, like, my ideologies and why I think the way I do and the processes that go in my head when I make videos, whatever.

00:50:01.340 Whenever I tell people about it, I tell them, like, I, like, sometimes I'll get comments where they're like, you're actually, like, kind of smart. 0.65

00:50:08.220 Which I, you know, again, like, yeah, again, I tell dick jokes on the internet, but I promise I am smart. 0.76

00:50:13.080 But, again, peanut butter pill, I gotta, like, give it to you that way. 0.94

00:50:16.260 Otherwise, you're not gonna listen otherwise.

00:50:18.520 I mean, regardless, you'll be entertained.

00:50:19.860 But at least you'll take something with you, too, and maybe learn a little bit more.

00:50:23.580 I think part of that also is, like, the feminization of social media in our culture.

00:50:27.720 It's seen as, like, less rigorous or less real.

00:50:30.400 Yeah.

00:50:30.660 Even though if you have millions of more people actually tune into what you're doing than anyone else.

00:50:34.780 I think especially we're seeing this with this TikTok ban.

00:50:37.760 Yeah.

00:50:38.000 There's a way in which if your genesis begins on the internet, people will always see you as, like, an underdog.

00:50:43.960 Totally.

00:50:44.440 And it's like, what are you talking about?

00:50:46.440 Right?

00:50:46.820 Yeah.

00:50:47.200 And so I think also what you're probably facing, wow, now we're workshopping here.

00:50:50.160 This is a very multifaceted conversation.

00:50:52.920 Look at us.

00:50:53.900 Is that you're also what you're facing again is, I think, a generational angst where a lot of, like, boomers don't understand that not only are we no longer in the era of logic, but also we're in an era now where there's a different way in which people are sharing knowledge production.

00:51:07.360 Totally.

00:51:07.800 Now a lot of people are realizing that universities are often really exclusionary.

00:51:11.820 Yep.

00:51:12.240 And that actually the internet's an amazing way to share information.

00:51:14.900 Absolutely.

00:51:15.260 And I feel like, I feel so lucky to be part of this generation, to have access to so much more information that's actually being done in a way that is delightful.

00:51:23.900 Yeah.

00:51:24.420 Not boring sitting in a lecture hall being like, is this relevant to my life?

00:51:28.300 Right.

00:51:28.600 So I also feel like probably what you're going to face and probably facing right now is people sleeping on your talent because they think it's just an internet sensation.

00:51:37.340 Yeah.

00:51:37.620 But I actually believe, like, the reason I'm here is because you're the real deal.

00:51:42.580 And it's really powerful to be in your presence.

00:51:45.740 Thank you.

00:51:46.120 And I feel called to, like, to join the chorus of people saying, like, you deserve everything.

00:51:51.700 Thank you.

00:51:52.580 Thank you so much.

00:51:53.540 That's how I feel about you.

00:51:54.560 When you confirmed, I was like, yes, because I'm such a huge fan.

00:51:58.620 And I feel like I learned so much from you.

00:52:00.680 And like I said, I feel magnetized to you, too, because I feel truly like being friends or being in community with people that are living a completely different experience from you.

00:52:11.600 When I was growing up, especially when I went to college, I feel like fundamentally made me a better person.

00:52:16.640 And whenever people ask me about higher education, I always tell them, like, if you have the means and you would like to, I encourage it.

00:52:24.020 Just understand that obviously there's barrier of entry to a lot of different universities and everything like that.

00:52:28.540 But I truly feel like the biggest privilege and the biggest asset that I gained from going to secondary schooling was community.

00:52:37.120 I got to learn so much more about so many different people, and I became a better person, like I truly did.

00:52:42.820 And I wrote about it a lot in my book, too.

00:52:44.580 Even my close circle of friends, my girlfriends from college, who I'm still friends with to this day, I had never met a group of women that were so different from women that I had grown up around.

00:52:55.300 Not in my own family, but just, like, girls I went to school with.

00:52:58.340 Women that were so convicted in who they were, their sexual autonomy, their attitudes towards relationships and sex in general.

00:53:05.060 I had never seen anything like that where it was so not something that weighed heavy on their integrity or their morality.

00:53:13.520 It was just a part of life.

00:53:15.100 And they were so convicted in it and so confident in it.

00:53:17.680 And it truly made me a better person.

00:53:19.680 Like, I really do think that.

00:53:20.660 That and my sister.

00:53:21.560 My sister's a lesbian. 1.00

00:53:22.960 And so her coming out to me and her, that journey I wrote about in my book, too, with her.

00:53:27.940 And that all of those things, like, genuinely, I think, evolved my brain and opened my worldview more.

00:53:34.280 And there's, I've always told people there's, like, there's nothing wrong with unlearning.

00:53:38.660 Like, admitting that what you once believed is not the truth and it's not what you once felt is rooted in something bigoted.

00:53:45.940 It's okay to admit that, to acknowledge it, and to unpack it and then move forward and grow and become a better person.

00:53:52.820 Like, we're constantly learning, or at least we should be.

00:53:55.740 What are you unlearning right now?

00:53:56.860 Oh, I think in the last, when I gained my platform, fatphobia was something I was genuinely really unlearning.

00:54:05.640 It was very hard for me in the beginning.

00:54:09.080 I feel like I've unpacked my misogyny, like, almost entirely.

00:54:13.500 I'd be such a fraud if I hadn't.

00:54:15.220 But I also feel like there are still flare-ups here and there where I feel myself kind of regressing a little bit.

00:54:22.860 And this is actually a perfect example.

00:54:25.420 One time I was talking to a friend, and we were talking about someone, and we both identify as women.

00:54:29.960 And the person we were talking about was a woman. 1.00

00:54:31.780 And I was telling, I remember listening to her talk about them.

00:54:34.760 And I was saying, like, if we really removed how we feel, I think we're just being a hater.

00:54:41.760 Like, if I'm just being honest with myself, I think I'm just being a hater.

00:54:44.420 I think there's something that I envy, or maybe there's something.

00:54:47.480 Because I always think there's a difference between envy and jealousy.

00:54:50.120 I feel like envy is more aspirational, whereas jealousy is more evil.

00:54:53.360 And it's more rooted in being a hater, really.

00:54:56.140 It's not really based in truth at all.

00:54:58.540 And so when I said that to her, she was kind of like, I never really thought about it like that.

00:55:03.880 And then she still tells me to this day, she's like, you really unpacked something for me.

00:55:07.280 And when you said that, like, you really unpacked something for me.

00:55:09.440 Because I told her, I think it's inherent that women want to find community and want to foster community with each other.

00:55:18.600 But I also think it's a knee-jerk reaction to rebel against each other or to tear each other down.

00:55:23.980 Because that's one of the tactics of the patriarchy is to turn us on each other. 0.95

00:55:28.080 That includes trans people.

00:55:29.320 Like, it's to turn us on each other.

00:55:31.040 And I always say, like, look at how much time we're wasting attacking each other.

00:55:35.080 And look how much further ahead they get every time we turn, you know?

00:55:37.920 So I feel like that's something I've been unpacking, too, lately.

00:55:41.380 One thing I'm unlearning is dissociation.

00:55:44.100 I feel like for me, as a young person, because my physical safety was in jeopardy, I learned how to, like, live up here.

00:55:51.340 And that's why I studied so much.

00:55:53.680 Yeah.

00:55:54.160 Is I was like, okay, if I have knowledge, I'm going to be safe.

00:55:57.200 I'm going to be able to argue with people.

00:55:59.180 I'm going to be able to show the data.

00:56:00.480 I'm going to be safe.

00:56:01.080 And then I had to confront the fact that, like, abusive people don't care about that.

00:56:05.580 About logic at all, yeah.

00:56:06.860 Or facts.

00:56:07.520 And so a lot of the work I'm doing as an adult now, I think, feels very simple.

00:56:12.640 Because a lot of other people got to experience that as young people.

00:56:16.100 And I didn't.

00:56:17.240 But it's like, oh, actually checking in with myself to be like, am I here in this moment?

00:56:22.180 That's actually a good one, yeah.

00:56:23.780 So, like, I have to, like, breathe and I have to be like, it's me.

00:56:28.280 Yeah.

00:56:28.640 This is my hand.

00:56:29.520 Yeah.

00:56:29.960 This is my voice.

00:56:30.720 This is me.

00:56:32.160 Because I think I find myself in many situations where I'm like, I'm not there.

00:56:35.360 I'm there, but I'm not there.

00:56:36.520 Yeah.

00:56:37.080 And I think it's some of the most challenging work.

00:56:38.920 And I think I sometimes feel a lot of shame about it still.

00:56:42.160 Because I have these narratives of like, oh, you're 32.

00:56:45.560 You should have done this by now.

00:56:46.880 Or, like, you can perform on stage.

00:56:48.520 You can do all this stuff.

00:56:49.240 And I'm like, yeah, the problem is I can perform.

00:56:51.660 That's the problem.

00:56:52.780 Yeah.

00:56:53.100 I can convince my own self.

00:56:55.620 And to actually be is, I think, one of the most difficult work.

00:57:00.520 But I think what I've really been trying to do now is to do that work of self-compassion

00:57:05.100 and say, I have to embody the world that I want now.

00:57:09.620 It's not fair to tell people to wait.

00:57:12.420 To wait for one day, you might be able to be safe.

00:57:15.840 No, I want to create that safety now.

00:57:17.240 And to create that safety now in me means that I have to actually elevate this work of unlearning

00:57:21.900 dissociation as an urgent job.

00:57:23.780 Because I think it's for a long time I put it off, put it off.

00:57:25.840 But it's too scary.

00:57:26.940 Yeah.

00:57:27.320 And it sometimes looks like really simple things.

00:57:29.360 Like, I've been doing a lot of mirror meditation to, like, just, like, greet myself and be

00:57:33.020 like, you're alive.

00:57:34.280 That's you.

00:57:35.300 I think that part of it's like an imposter syndrome for being alive.

00:57:38.120 I think as a kid, I thought I was going to be dead.

00:57:40.500 And so now that I'm an adult, I'm like, hold on.

00:57:43.060 Yeah.

00:57:43.460 I didn't expect that to happen.

00:57:44.920 And now that I'm an adult, I'm like, what do I do with that?

00:57:48.200 Yeah.

00:57:48.680 Because my forecast was, like, 18.

00:57:51.640 And now I find myself still being like, when I'm 35, it's all going to be done.

00:57:56.180 Yeah.

00:57:56.560 Or when I'm not going to make it to 40.

00:57:58.180 So that's so easy for me to go to.

00:58:00.540 Yeah.

00:58:00.880 And so now I'm trying to get to a deeper and more expansive place and be like, I'm going

00:58:04.580 to be 98.

00:58:05.880 What do I want to live when I'm 98?

00:58:08.000 Yeah.

00:58:08.420 And that's such a new energy in me.

00:58:10.400 That's really exciting and very scary.

00:58:12.520 I feel like, and like you said, it probably helps you be more present too.

00:58:15.740 And all the wonderful things that you accomplish, have accomplished and continue to accomplish,

00:58:19.280 but it helps you be more present in the moments and celebrate you in the moment.

00:58:23.740 Because I struggled with that a lot in the beginning of my career because I felt like

00:58:28.540 I had to keep going in order to like stay afloat, you know, like just, I realized in therapy

00:58:33.480 that my validation doesn't come from men, but it did come from my accomplishments, like

00:58:36.860 being the best at things, like being better than everyone, everyone and anyone, but especially

00:58:41.720 better death threats.

00:58:42.980 Yeah.

00:58:43.280 Better, better at every, better hater.

00:58:45.500 Yeah.

00:58:45.860 I was just like, that's where I sought my confidence.

00:58:48.160 Yes.

00:58:48.440 And Kohl's was always like, oh, I'm, I feel good about myself because I'm the best, but

00:58:52.500 I like the best at this or the best at that.

00:58:54.560 But like my therapist helped me unpack that.

00:58:56.820 That's not a sustainable way to live either.

00:58:59.000 In fact, it runs me into the ground quite often.

00:59:00.900 So that kind of present thing about, that was my new year's resolution was to be more

00:59:05.840 present.

00:59:06.440 So I'm bad.

00:59:07.260 I'm basically a plot twist.

00:59:08.660 I'm, I'm sent from the universe as the embodied reality of your new year's resolution to hold

00:59:13.500 an honest mirror to you on your podcast in front of everyone and say, are you being present?

00:59:19.500 It's a check.

00:59:20.340 It's a temp gauge.

00:59:21.700 I am obsessed with you.

00:59:23.140 I love you dearly.

00:59:24.380 I'm so grateful you came on the show.

00:59:25.900 My brain has already evolved.

00:59:27.500 I can't wait to spend more time with you.

00:59:28.840 Yes, it was so fun.

00:59:29.820 Against your will.

00:59:30.520 I'm just going to just show up and start hanging out with you.

00:59:33.780 If you come with glam like that, I can't complain.

00:59:35.640 Period.

00:59:36.380 I just got to come back.

00:59:37.280 Okay.

00:59:37.760 You said it.

00:59:38.540 You said it.

00:59:39.120 You all saw it.

00:59:39.820 No, she's not a stalker.

00:59:41.040 She looks fabulous.

00:59:42.340 Well, what's the glam look like?

00:59:43.880 Okay.

00:59:44.160 She can come in.

00:59:45.740 Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:59:47.780 I am obsessed with you.

00:59:49.200 I truly, genuinely feel like you're a gift to this world.

00:59:52.640 I feel honored to know you and even more honored to have had you as a guest.

00:59:56.760 Thank you.

00:59:57.180 Thank you so much for all you do for the world and the internet and everything in between.

01:00:02.100 I feel very grateful for you.

01:00:03.320 And I hope everyone continues to give you your flowers.

01:00:05.520 Thank you.

01:00:05.860 But just so in case anyone doesn't know, where can they find you?

01:00:09.020 Yeah.

01:00:09.300 So I'm currently recovering from an Instagram addiction.

01:00:12.400 So you can find me there.

01:00:14.220 And I'm not sure if that's good for either of us.

01:00:16.680 It's at A-L-O-K-V-M-E-N-O-N. 1.00

01:00:19.140 Period.

01:00:19.720 And do you have anything else you would like to promote?

01:00:22.020 I hope to see you on tour.

01:00:23.280 I'm going to be touring all over the world with my new comedy show.

01:00:25.160 Yes, please go see A-L-O-K. 1.00

01:00:26.880 And it's your hour, yeah?

01:00:29.220 I'm so excited for you.

01:00:30.800 Oh my gosh.

01:00:31.540 See, another thing I got to work on catching up to you.

01:00:34.080 Look at us working from opposite ends to the middle.

01:00:36.720 Thank you so much for coming on the show.

01:00:38.820 I love you dearly.

01:00:40.060 Thank you all for joining us on this episode.

01:00:42.280 Make sure you guys go follow A-L-O-K on literally everything. 1.00

01:00:44.640 Go see them on tour.

01:00:45.840 They're hilarious and so inspiring and so, so, so smart.

01:00:49.520 And thank you so much for joining us on this episode.

01:00:51.180 Once again, don't forget new episodes of the comment section drop every Wednesday.

01:00:55.080 You can stream the audio on all streaming platforms or you can watch the video for free

01:00:58.160 on our favorite platform, Spotify.

01:01:00.800 Thank you so much to A-L-O-K, my amazing guest.

01:01:02.600 Thank you all for joining us and I'll see you next week.

01:01:04.320 Bye!

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The Comment Section with Drew Afualo - May 08, 2024

HEALING™ Ft. Alok

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